I did the first 100 yards and it was just carrying shit from point a to point b and putting back in the same way you found it then doing like 25m kettle bell carries against the other platoons and whoever got them best score in all the events got to eat first. Then we got our bags (mine got lost then I got chewed out for some other companies drill for taking my bag) we did the whole layout stuff along while getting smoked if you couldn’t find it in 2 seconds, then we got our rifles and the rest is kind of a blur, I remember some kid heat catted the first day and I was his battle buddy for the drill sergeant like reading to him why he was failing training then half way through the drill decided it was bullshit and just made the kid carry around a cot because he was on bed rest so during pt he would just lay down in the cot
that just sounds like a shark attack but a little bit different. and maybe a little bit more? Like i guess your missing all the training battalion's drills yelling at you while you run and just ignore them all the way to your company area?
Yeah you just get screamed at to run faster while carrying shit and it’s way more than 100 yards and it’s just your companies drills yelling at you for that. If we didn’t stay in a group we got smoked along the way. We got to watch another cycle do their 100 yards and they weren’t even getting yelled at the run it was wack. They do have the fire alarms pulled for it tho they also have firecrackers
See I got the best of both worlds, when I shipped to my BCT Co. we did a 50/50 shark attach & first 100 yards combined. So we got smoked & yelled at holding duffel bags above our heads for the first 15min , then we went about the first 100 yards.
Every "old" generation talks poorly of the new generation. Imagine what I think about you... no wait, your PSG and his first PSG... I went through BCT in 1990 and I commanded a BCT company in 2008.
You know what the biggest difference in my experience as a trainee, my experience as a Commander and your experience? Pretty much nothing. It's all about the same.
The old generation was great, you're great, and the new guys are great. We're all in this together
Every single generation is really just the “mediocre generation that does what needs to be done.”
I talked to a WW2 vet in 2014 and it stuck with me that he said yeah he invaded Europe and it sucked…but he was over there for less time than most units did for a single deployment, they got to see amazing progress, then he was done and came back a hero surrounded by other veterans.
Said he couldn’t imagine doing what people did today or in Vietnam where they rotated endlessly through with no real point to what they were doing.
Just imagine a ww1 E3 who survived the war, got out, stayed in and is prob a first Sgt when the ww2 breaks out;
Making his guys did trench lines for miles, and arguing on why his stables haven’t been built yet for his logistics line of horses he is expecting
PFC snuffy pulls up in a 1/2 ton
1sgt; back in my day, in [belleau wood…](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Belleau_Wood)
Always reminds me if naval warships in WW1. The captains for those near modern battleships were often trained on sailingships and sometimes just didn't use radio in favor of signal flags.
Technology went so damn fast.
Orville Wright died in 1948. He lived to watch aviation technology go from "Holy shit we just flew for a whole minute - this is revolutionary!" to watching a strategic bomber drop the fuckin' sun twice on Japan. That's even more wild to me.
They were. There's a famous Gallup poll from 1940 that said basically: "Americans believe that today's youth are weak, lazy, and yellow (ie cowardly)."
“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” — Socrates
Brits made a propaganda movie on this theme, "The Way Ahead". All this "conscripts getting ready for a war" with regular shots of older vets complaining how these youngsters suck and if they weren't that old the war would be won already.
One of the last speeches SMA Grinston gave he said, "If anybody tells you what's going on with your generation... or any of that, it's straight crap. You're great, and you're going to be greater than we ever were."
Dude really epitomized what the position should be IMO. Took a little work on his end, but he will forever be cemented as one of the more influential leaders in my career. Hoping his replacement steps up eventually.
I did the first 100. At least for osut I could tell you there not being an official “shark attack” that does not mean practically the same thing happens once you are behind closed doors in the bay. We quite literally got smoked from 6 am til after dinner and only ate mres. While I think it’s dumb we broke that tradition the drill sergeants still make sure the same message gets across.
Similar thing with basic at Fort Sill, first 100 wasn’t too bad, yes there was some yelling but the DSes weren’t being aggressive
The moment we got to the battery, completely different story, we were getting smoked every 5 seconds as a whole battery for any mistake no matter how minor and if it was done by one person, then there were the shower drills that started at like 1900
That went on for the first 3 days, I remember that after lights out on the third day, we all celebrated that we made it past the first 72 since we were warned during reception that it was one of the hardest part of basic
People act like getting rid of the shark attack means drill sergeants hand you ice cream off the bus. First 100 yards, if anything was just a practical way to introduce us to the ACFT. You’re still getting yelled at, you’re still tired, it’s still hot and it’s still BCT.
Other than set the conditions and prep some fear mindset, not a lot of value added for doing that stuff.
I did both Marine and Army boot camp.
There's quite honestly very good arguments for both techniques during boot camp.
That being said, I can recite bullshit I learned 31 years ago in Marine Corps boot camp *verbatim*. I remember a bunch of training I got back then, but relatively little of anything I got in Army boot camp.
Grand old man of the Marine Corps is.....
Also prior service Marine and current Army here, I never went to Army boot camp but when I hear about the "shark attack", it's like cool story, we had 3 straight months of "shark attack"
I honestly dont have the shark attack stick out in my mind. It was just 10 weeks of getting dropped and yelled at for arbitrary reasons really. The thing that does stand out was doing shower drills. I went in wearing large PT shorts and came out wearing a small. No idea who ended up with my pair.
The shark attack was much more mild than subsequent smoke sessions we had.
Probably because it's a big event with people there taking pictures and enjoying the spectacle. Drills really couldn't do what they actually wanted without risking getting in trouble.
I went through in 2009. I thought the shark attack was stupid. I was just confused the whole time. I don’t think anybody is missing out on anything. Except getting spit on if that’s your thing. No judgement
I went through in 08. It taught me that items like detergent should be properly packed and secured otherwise you'd have it dripping down on you while holding a duffle above your head.
Saw a guy at sick call who was on day 3, covered everywhere in deep red burns, looked like he was in a fire.
Lesson was, be careful wearing a uniform covered in detergent.
There were kids in your basic training company who have never experienced any kind of stress or pressure testing. The sheltered ones who you saw fumble fuck everything they did on shark attack day. The ones who can’t even seem to figure out how to put on a hat while someone is yelling mean words at them.
Those people don’t need to be handed a loaded rifle and stuck in the middle of Ramadi. They need to learn how it feels to be stressed first so we know they’re not going to have a fucking panic attack at the first sign of a little pressure, let alone the pressure of combat
We had people try to quit after the shark attack. One Texan who had a Ranger contract got hauled off to the mental hospital for saying he was going to kill himself or others.
It never occurred to me that it actually served a purpose until now.
Here's what the new soldiers are missing - that "no shit you just signed your life away to the Army" moment when it hits you.
When the drills came and got us for pickup it was that line when we knew that basic had started and pretty much setup that the Drills were in charge.
When the drills were taken out of AIT the change was palpable - new IET soldiers came to line units with no discipline.
After years of this the Army put the Drills back in AIT.
Any good cadre are best and shaking up and "melting" Mommy and Daddy's special little snowflakes with just yelling and a mild workout. No cursing, no touching.
Because - as u/hobohaha points out - some of the little shits NEED to go home. The recruiter made a mistake, their parents failed them, they are just shitbirds or all of the above.
If they can't take being yelled at in a controlled environment, I refuse to have them to my left and right in formation.
If their feelings are hurt because the mean DS yelled at them as they stepped off the bus, they won't handle me or my NCO yelling at them when they fail a crew drill.
Some counterpoints for your consideration: unlike draftees in the past who needed to be mentally beaten into submission we are a volunteer force now. Yes there are some shitheads but they often end up Ch. 11 anyway whether or not some DS yelled at them.
They are aware the DS is in charge, it's just we use the 1st 100 yards to focus that stress into meaningful exercise that starts trying to build teamwork from the trainees right away rather than just spitting in their faces or doing exercises that serve little physical function other than to tear rotator cuffs or break ankles which only delays getting trained Soldiers to units. Same reason we can still make them push or do squats till they throw up but we can't have them do overhead arm claps for 30 minutes straight; it was a way to inflict pain without any physical benefit.
When I went through AIT I had an awesome NCO for a PSG. He actually gave a shit about us to the point other PLTs has Soldiers trying to go to him because he was the one who would stay late to push paperwork to get pay issues corrected, not let the polygraphers keep us waiting forever, fight to get married folks orders early so families could prepare, etc. He only ever had to raise his voice to the few aforementioned shitheads because everyone else respected the hell out of him. The fact so many discipline issues are blamed on having PSGs instead of DS in AIT is not Army leadership's fault, it's the fault of bad NCOs who didn't give a fuck thinking it was a cushy job rather than enforcing standards. Modern Drills aren't told we have to be hard asses to be successful, we're simply told to be good NCOs rather than lazy, incompetent, or assholes (when unwarranted).
Also, when they step off that bus they are still civilians who haven't gone through 10 weeks of BCT then OSUT or AIT so you shouldn't expect them to perform the same way you'd expect a new Soldier arriving to their unit would. IET simply turns civilians into new Soldiers then makes them MOS-Q to the most basic level, units are still expected to continue that training. I make sure to tell our AIT Soldiers we have limits because they're still in that formative phase but gloves come off when they get to FORSCOM and are expected to perform.
>Some counterpoints for your consideration: unlike draftees in the past who needed to be mentally beaten into submission we are a volunteer force now. Yes there are some shitheads but they often end up Ch. 11 anyway whether or not some DS yelled at them.
>
>They are aware the DS is in charge, it's just we use the 1st 100 yards to focus that stress into meaningful exercise that starts trying to build teamwork from the trainees right away rather than just spitting in their faces or doing exercises that serve little physical function other than to tear rotator cuffs or break ankles which only delays getting trained Soldiers to units.
The Marines have a much more "forceful" reception for new recruits. AFAIK spitting or slapping them was never permitted. It's that the shark attack does separate those who can't hack it from those who want to work.
>When I went through AIT I had an awesome NCO for a PSG. He actually gave a shit about us to the point other PLTs has Soldiers trying to go to him because he was the one who would stay late to push paperwork to get pay issues corrected, not let the polygraphers keep us waiting forever, fight to get married folks orders early so families could prepare, etc. He only ever had to raise his voice to the few aforementioned shitheads because everyone else respected the hell out of him.
I too had AIT Drills and an AIT NCO who never had to yell. The problem is that their supply seems to be limited but the supply of smart ass recruits seems to be endless. My 2nd AIT, we were supposed to be doing maintenance exercises in the POMPT (PATRIOT main. trainer). As a transition, us prior service guys were hip deep in the manuals and pushing buttons.
All the new IET soldiers were talking so loud we could barely hear ourselves.
The room still had the special tile where the DS used to stand - the civie instructor told me when they had Dills in AIT you could hear a pin drop when classes were given. Even when the Drills weren't there because they were a phone call away.
>Also, when they step off that bus they are still civilians who haven't gone through 10 weeks of BCT then OSUT or AIT so you shouldn't expect them to perform the same way you'd expect a new Soldier arriving to their unit would. IET simply turns civilians into new Soldiers then makes them MOS-Q to the most basic level, units are still expected to continue that training. I make sure to tell our AIT Soldiers we have limits because they're still in that formative phase but gloves come off when they get to FORSCOM and are expected to perform.
You know that I know that but try telling HQDA, think tanks and many commanders that.
The whole reason IET soldiers get a firm (yet fair) hand is because they are okay when they have that Brown Round standing nearby but absolute shit as soon as they know they won't be yelled at. When they get to FORSCOM, the change is sink or swim.
The problem was that TRADOC pawned off way to much to line units - "you'll learn this at your line unit". No we didn't, they were too busy until it became a problem. Also TRADOC lowered standards during GWOT.
The Shark Attack was a little stress on the new recruits that established that the Drills were IN CHARGE.
IET solders tended to forget that and the ones who were in AIT when NCO's were cadre quickly took advantage of not being yelled at by committing so many UCMJ infractions. The ones that graduated showed their asses to their NCO's.
IET needs to be a constant cycle of discipline until that soldier is MOS-Q'd and then the line unit can take it from there.
You get the stress and shit built in with the rest of the training. The new thing is functionally doing what you said anyway, just stressing you out.
There’s a lot better ways to prepare someone for stressful situations than just screaming at them for 10 weeks.
I went through in the early 2000s and received what I believed to be a “proper” shark attack. The quiet bus ride from reception at Knox to a random field where I spent a long time doing bag drills and listening to everyone being told they were fuck ups. We spent what what felt like days in that field, putting bags over our heads, even when we couldn’t anymore. I don’t remember how or when it ended but it was the last time I was happy to be ordered into the barracks.
I went to the drill academy, and I remember being insulted by some boot licking staff sergeant who had never deployed, screaming at me for really no reason. I still didn’t care for it, for the same reason I didn’t like it ten years prior. Not knowing what came next.
I was a Drill when the “first hundred yards” or “thunder run” was an idea. I was the 1SG for the troop to run a “thunder run”.
Nothing changed. Those kids still got off the bus confused. They still had people yelling at them. Sure, guys could maybe hide out a bit easier and not deal with as much physical exertion as before but they were probably hiding in every era. Those kids did that loop and had no fucking clue what was next. They were just as sleep deprived, scared, and confused as any other idiot who wandered through BCT. The only thing that changed was how the emotional pressure was applied. The variable of a loose cannon Drill was largely removed and instead trainees were greeted with a scripted event designed to invoke the same confusion.
Who gives a shit? Quality NCOs and adherence to the standard produces quality soldiers post BCT/AIT/OSUT. They all leave stupid and needing more training at the unit (OJT) to work well in their organization. Some kids will grasps it, some later and than others. Some kids just won’t. What happens after they get off the bus doesn’t matter, they got off the bus.
There are some things that I wish BCT does better but honestly not including a shark attack is pretty low on the scale of what I care about.
I felt relatively ambivalent about it when they took it away. I didn’t gain anything out of it as a “training event” and it was honestly just a giant cluster fuck. Exercising patience standing around in line all day at reception arguably prepared me more for what the Army was going to be like.
Nobody can articulate why that event should be kept or what it’s value would be compared to other events.
All I remember from my “shark attack” was me eating shit while getting off of the bus, so it must’ve not had that much of an impact if I can’t even remember something from 8 years ago
My shark attack in 2008 was hilarious. One of our drill sergeants looked exactly like Stone Cold Steve Austin and got right up in my face yelling “I’m going to make your life a living hell!” It was all I could do to keep a straight face.
Back in my day i would have uppercutted that drill sergeant so hard his commander would have resigned. Guess im just tougher than literally everyone who happened to join after me, nbd
I was front of our formationl while the Senior DS was doing the incomprehensible introctory speech, and directly across from me, one of my DS kept doing this weird twitch thing with his mustache and kind of just looking around, and I realized he was just really bored. I found it pretty funny and instantly humanized the whole lot of them.
They’re not missing anything other than something that’s a tradition, just like a promotion ceremony or promotions boards etc. It’s just something that’s tradition that some people didn’t want to see go away from, how I see it is a lot of people in the Army hate change. That’s why every older generation talks down about the newer generation of the Army, it’s an endless cycle “ohh you guys have beards, you’re so soft now”. I had a MSG call me soft once because I said “I can’t wait to go home and shower” after a field problem
I was just talking to a civilian man today whose dad was a retired master sergeant. He said his dad told him not to join, not because the military is crazy with toxic leadership and politics, not because the Army especially FORSCOM is arguably more ridiculous than say the Air Force is, but because the Army is "not how it used to be" and he mentioned the fact that some soldiers have beards now as an example.
So this guy was just talking out of his ass.
Yea toxic leadership whatever, but defaulting to "its not how it used to be" really means they are just out of touch, old, and can't find legitimate examples.
Idk the drill sergeants had some funny as fuck things they said and did. One drill sergeant was like frothing at the mouth screaming climbing over the seats of the bus yelling to for us get off his bus. It was just absolute pandemonium of 18 year olds scared shitless running around. I'll always cherish those memories.
Geez (insert some random not quite boomer words here) I'm old, old.
I had a drill of the year in my vacation extravaganza lmao. Seriously I hope they got help after. They were coming unwound.
I went to basic in 1983. No I did not see any dinosaurs on road marches. Except that brigade commander that went by in a Chrysler K car (you'll need Google) painted mint green. He had the windows up rocking a/c. Jackson in August sucks.
My dad was Army, yeah I drank the Flavor-Aid (one of 6 kids no name brand for us) and my son really should have been more street wise lol. Son's retired.
It's the same shit different shade every year. Years turn into decades. Honestly of everything. Military or not. Folks want to have their experience validated.
It's the military. We answer the same silly shit, we do the same silly drills, we march the same silly formations, we memorize out of the same silly manual that's had minor updates over the decades turned into centuries.
Different people. Same ol' things. Different interpretations.
I'll have the senior Dave's Junior Combo I've got a coupon for a free Frosty.
They’re missing nothing
The dudes who never shut the fuck up about the shark attack being gone are the same dumbasses who peaked in basic training
If anything the new shit they’re doing creates more camaraderie and teamwork than the shark attack ever did
No one talked to me during the "shark attack" so I'm not sure it matters. We all lifted our bags up and threw them down. Others got berated.
At most, it was a dick move to make our laundry detergent bottles break.
Other than that, it wasn't some event worth remembering. It didn't stick out. It's not that important. It didn't set the tone.
I had a neighbor who had been drafted and served in Vietnam, and I remember him bitching about how soft basic was in modern times (I think this was in 83 or 84,) and that back in his day drill sergeants used to kick them in the stomach, and would kick them in the sides when doing push ups.
I went through in 1985. You still had some of that where Drills would hit or kick recruits. It was officially frowned upon and was the last gasp of a dying tradition.
I was in the Marines several years ago, and as I write this, I'm at Ft Moore for infantry OSUT. As prior service I get a lot of special privileges including my phone.
The first 100 yards wasn't a bad thing. In fact, the narrative about going over the top in WW1 is the only history they've taught us.
BCT is softer than baby shit, but the problem isn't the missing shark attacks, it's all the down time. Whatever training event we have scheduled is usually done by 1400 or 1500 and then the trainees are sent upstairs for "bay maintenance," until dinner chow. There is seldom a drill sergeant in the bay and most of the kids are napping. We were barely a week into red phase when this started. After dinner, we are secured for personal time and personal hygiene.
Trainees in BCT have a no shit 8 hour day from 0600-1400 before turning in and fucking off for the rest of the evening. Discipline and motivation are non-existent.
I don't know if the problem is not enough drill sergeants, or if mine just don't care, but these kids are going to die.
What are the missing? Absolutely nothing, maybe they are missing the waste of time the shark attack was/is.
Generations of soldiers won America’s wars well before someone invented the stupidity that is the shark attack.
I somehow missed the shark attack with a few other people who were on a detail. I guess that makes me not as tough as pvt Sel***, who experienced the shark attack. He was also too tough to follow simple instructions, stay healthy for more than a day, or wash himself. Needless to say that shark attack veteran passed basic training.
Shit, doesn’t even sound like you went through much of a shark attack. My shark attack had smoke grenades, arty sims popping off right and left, dudes getting laid out with duffel bags. Drills snatching people’s duffels, ripping them open, and throwing their shit all over the place. I got hit in the face with someone’s spare boots that a drill just lobbed into a crowd of scrambling privates, and spent our roughly two hour long shark attack covered in blood from my upper lip and my nose.
I mean I did this too in 2022. We just did it *after* the first 100.
At least it feels like the first 100 actually serves a purpose to sort of enhance camaraderie and working as a team.
If you did literally any sort of research or watch any videos prior to BCT, it wasn’t hard to recognize that the DS yelling served a purpose and to just ‘play the game’. I can’t imagine it being much different for the shark attack.
I went through in 2013. Had my favorite pair of fingernail clippers almost taken by a DS who thought I might try to stab someone. (Had the finger nail file that twisted around while not in use)
Reception week was by far the worst part of BCT to me. Those individuals in charge really did not give AF. I would go through weeks of shark attacks to never have to experience that week again.
To the point of the “Shark Attack”.
Was it necessary? No, not from a value-add standpoint of winning wars. Nothing happened in those couple of hours that could magically change who we were.
However, It was the first time in my life that everybody in the room was on an equal playing field. There were no favorites, no teachers pets, no one got left out, everybody got the smoke. I saw individuals I just spoke to on the bus talk about how they played sports and then watched them fumble around with trying to close a duffel bag with somebody yelling at them. A couple of folks literally fell out of the trailer trying to get out who could probably run an 11 minute two mile in the right condition’s. The added pressure of someone yelling at you while doing basic tasks can really hinder your ability to perform those task under normal conditions.
Was the shark attack going to make you a great Soldier? No.
Was it to give you a reality check that you might not be as good as you think you are under pressure and need to work on critical thinking in unusual circumstances ? Maybe.
Was it funny af watching everybody during that time. Absolutely.
I enlisted in 09. They still had shark attack. It's overhyped and anyone that thought it was the scariest thing in their life definitely did nothing worthwhile in the Army.
I don't think new Soldiers are missing out on anything. Even the whole idea of "breaking Soldier out of civilian mentality" is something that happens throughout IET; and not something that happens just because you did that one thing on day 0 of BCT.
Absolutely nothing. The shark attack has been replace with a team building exercise called the “First 100”, followed by an unofficial shark attack during the layout. I can 100% guarantee you that they get the same experience.
- prior BCT Commander
I feel you in the last part. Some people say " The first time they are stressed shouldn't be in combat" acting like the trainess don't go through OUST then training with their units PLUS when they get to MOB training.
As if they immediately jump from basic to deployment.
I think what really will define your attitude and whether you are “hard” or not is your first couple years at your duty station, not basic training. The type of leadership a JR enlisted has will develop the way of thinking and attitude that SM will have for however long they may stay in the army.
I enjoyed it. Some guys were crying in their bunks that night. But I took it as a personal challenge after that first hour or so. I also quickly realized that we were not able to meet the standards given to us. That was somehow refreshing. To just do my best. I have no idea if the shark attack was responsible for that or not, but it set me up for a productive BT.
I think the shark attack probably had an incredible effect decades ago before everyone knew what to expect going in. Now with social media and the spread of information about basic training, it's almost a formality more than anything.
Mine was underwhelming, I was just relieved to be away from 30th AG. I have the distinct memory of doing pushups and just being happy.
Honestly, I bet if we go back to Ancient Greece, we would find old guys talking about how the new generation of kids did not get the same level of discipline they did and the quality of phalanx will suffer.
It’s about abuse and how much you can take. It’s meant to be your introduction to a whole new way of life. It should shock and scare new recruits. It doesn’t make anyone hard, it’s just a bunch of dudes yelling at you. It’s literally the first easy step that can lead to a lot of other “hard” shit.
Honestly though, you’re probably just a dirty fucking leg. And I’m not allowed to talk to legs. I’m only allowed to eat wings. It sucks because all the meat is on the drumstick. Way she goes, bud.
Fucking nothing? What did we learn? Team work? No, to be resilient against adversity? No, get yelled at for hours without knowing the proper context of the situation, yep, basic is meant to refocus and change your mindset, Drill sergeants, are meant to be teachers, leaders and example to follow, something to look and have a desire to be like that drill sergeant, not just dickheads that yell at trainees or mtd that slack off, plus is FUCKING BASIC, soldiers learn through time with proper teaching and tools, mtf don't become honored soldiers in 2 moths, people compare extremely exceptional soldiers with your regular joe
It's about being able to focus under pressure. I'm not saying this to condone or say whether it's good or bad etc.. just stating the purpose.
Can you function under "extreme" pressure. For most people that experience is probably the most pressure they have been under. Can you process what is going on, basic instructions and do what's being asked (screamed) while maintaining some semblance of control.
Remember basic training is a conglomerate of people from ALL walks of life. Well educated, not educated, southern, urban, country.... all coming together. So they need to break EVERYONE down to a basic level and begin to build from there so everyone is on the same page.
All I remember is some mean short drill sergeant yelling at me about my hat asking me about if I wanted to go to a baseball game. My dumbass said yeah I wanna go. I guess that wasn’t the answer she wanted.
Edit: I do remember the shower drills now that someone mentioned it. I’m not sure there’s much training value except trying to humiliate recruits.
Breaks the soldier from a sense of entitlement that they have been used to. It’s not the “smoke fest” part that is important as much as the drill sergeant getting in the soldiers face and instilling fear is. It’s a psych thing for obedience, same type of stuff gets done in SERE but at a more intense level.
I was wondering what you meant by ‘shark attack’..read a bit, then thought-oh, that’s pretty much basic training 🤣
That first day was hysterical, when I look back on it. We had to dump out our luggage (I came straight from mini basic at my NG unit-so I had a duffel bag) and they mocked every civilian thing we had, they were savage.
I will never forget one person in my platoon with a big ass suitcase. I have no idea what the fuck she was thinking 🤔
Then they got in our faces and screamed ‘why are you at basic? Do you want to mooch off the government?’ *um, yes* Are you a patriot? *sure, Drill SG* you liar! Drop!🤣
We didn’t have to hold our bags above our heads but they were on our backs while we got swarmed by all of the drill sergeants. Our Senior DS was on a loud speaker while we all were pushing the earth. Every time some fucked up or couldn’t do it we pushed more. Drills were in our face the whole time
Edit: this was early 2022 and we all had covid masks on our faces
Drill SGT 1 walking past: Pick up your duffel bag and hold it over your head!
Drill SGT 2 walking behind: Put your duffel bags down!
Drill SGT 1: I didn't tell you to put your duffel down! Pick up your civvie bag and hold it over your head!
That interaction made me the man I am today. It shaped me, molded me, defines my very being. It solidified me into the lethal killing machine that now sits with painful knees and ankles and back at a desk for most of the day.
The only thing I really learned from the shark attack was that if you don’t make a scene, the drills will quickly get bored of yelling at you in favor of some other clueless asshole. Cue 10 weeks later when I was repeatedly asked just days before graduation “have you been here the whole time, pri?”
I think things like the shark attack worked when they were a surprise and gave people the experience of reacting to stressful events.
These days, a trainee with half a brain would have watched a dozen or more videos about basic in YouTube and already know exactly what's happening. You could know the training schedule almost to the day before you go to basic. When you think of it that way, the shark attack thing is kind of a waste of time.
I do think acclimating to stress is important. But there are plenty of ways to accomplish that.
Every single generation of the military has did some things different and despite what all the "back in my Army" people say no group is inherently better or worse because of any nonsense they had to endure. And every generation thinks they were harder than the next one
All the, "we didn't go to sick call back in my army" are spending their retirement years fighting with VA claims for eternity whilenthe new gen is getting 100% because they have documents to shop.
The "they could cuss us out and fight us behind the connex in my army" struggle to transition and fit in with civilian jobs because they have to relearn how to talk to people calmly and respectfully.
At the end of the day the Army evolves to keep up with society standards and the people evolve as they learn certain ways of doing things don't actually add value to the training and/or mission, or that the value added doesn't outweigh the risk.
They missed nothing. It was a pointless waste of time. I hated it as a drill sergeant. Hello trainees. I’m the epitome of professionalism. Watch as I scream at you like a brain damaged ape and make you do pointless thing that teach you nothing. We are the most professional and disciplined military in the world. Observe.
The whole thing drove me nuts. Much better use of time to conduct layouts and initial counseling and present myself and my drills as the professionals we were.
I went through basic in 2011 and I’ve been out since 2016, so there’s some context for my take.
People don’t have the same experiences. One person in basic might be from the mean streets of Hell’s Kitchen, and another from a rich suburb in New Hampshire. Those people are going to respond to stress very differently. Someone’s potential first time being stressed should not be in combat. Imagine taking that rich suburbanite, having plausibly never experienced any hardship or pressure, and putting that person in a combat zone. They’ve never had to perform a technical task, like clearing a malfunction, under extreme pressure. You can’t guarantee how they’d respond. That’s not good.
Alternatively, if you expose a trainee to an extreme amount of stress, a little sleep deprivation, and a little hunger, when the time comes for them to perform their job in those conditions, their response can be a little more predictable. They may have never been shot at, but we at least know they can reload their weapon while someone is screaming in their face and not curl up in a ball on the ground.
Again this is my opinion, but I think the “shark attack” and general callous nature of basic training levels the playing field. It really hammers into your brain that you’re not a civilian anymore, and you have to start thinking like a soldier. Break them down, call them names, tell them everything they’ve ever done in life is wrong and stupid until they believe it…and then you teach them the right way, the *army* way. That’s how you indoctrinate someone, and it’s why I still carry things in my left hand after being out of the army for almost 8 years and can also speak in a calm voice on the radio when I have a patient tanking in the back of my ambulance. It works. We just gotta see if the new way works too.
I see what you're saying but still we went though way more craziness and smoking inside the bays than we did in the little bit of time outside when we first met the drill sergeants while the ladies were standing around taking pictures.
I think it’s important because it immediately exposes our new soldiers to a chaotic and unnatural environment. It’s important to determining who can and cannot hang in those environments.
I don't know about the "first 100 yards" but I assume that's a decent replacement.
I would rather do pushups for 10 or 20 minutes than run 100 yards carrying stuff while wearing a uniform and boots.
Staying calm and keeping composure during high stress situations.
The problem with this is there's much more scientific and impactful ways to do this. A lot has changed in psychology and training. The need for this type of training environment isn't as necessary.
Seeing the way privates show up to units now a days? Yes. This is accurate, they are soft. Trainees come to new units with zero respect, zero discipline and walk around acting like sergeants are their best friends and then are surprised and a sergeant gets pissed off. They don't understand the hierarchy of the army. The army used to be where you had to earn your place in the unit, it wasn't just given to you.
I did the first 100. Despite the fact that they supposedly removed the shark attack, I experienced it before the first 100. Everyone got off the bus while being screamed at. People were being surrounded for being too slow. We did push ups and shit for like 20 minutes, split up into platoons, then did the first 100. This was 2021. Just because the army claims it isn’t happening doesn’t mean that’s actually the case. Tha being said, I don’t really feel like the shark attack added significant value to training. It does create stress, but not to the degree of combat, which is what’s it’s supposed to do. Also, there’s other ways to create stress without it
It's a generational shift.
However, I have noticed that there is a lot more selfishness in this new generation coming in.
Gone are the days of service just for services sake. I'm not saying you shouldn't take what you can get from the military, but you should follow that with a heart of service as repayment.
I don't see that heart of service anymore
I went through Basic in 1985. We were out there for hours with Drill’s screaming at us, making us do exercises, etc. We never held up clothes. Afterwards, we went into our open bay barracks that were built in 1926.
Sounds like you got the “kindler gentler” little baby version.
It’s really brigade dependent how hard they go. Each one gets a lot room to operate within tradco 350-6. And I know at Jackson CG Kelly really doesn’t care correct training unless it hazing type of stuff.
At 4-39 we went hard on the kids during pickup and this was 22-23. We even scuff up the asvab kids at 2-39 when I worked there
A shark attack is any time more than 3 drills start smoking a private, they smell blood in the water and jump. Last I checked that didn't stop, what are you even complaining about?
Learning how to not get flustered during times of stress. Being able to listen and respond to orders under duress. Learning to use your side eyes to see what is going on without the drills focusing on you. Learning how not to eye up the gorgeous female drill as she and her Battle tear into the troop who stared her down.
What are they missing? Good times, good times. Class of 2009 Fort Knox.
Not much, “the first 72” is a 3-day shark attack lmao. Comes right after the first 100 yards. I wasn’t there when they first started doing it under SMA Grinston, but when I did mine, it was actually a good way to start.
We had the first 72(hrs) which was just pure fuckfuck games. I mean you can't win at bct but durning the first 72 shit was wild. 1st night after making the walls sweat and shower drills we had to recite the soliders creed at the modified position of attention on our beds lmao. We were so terrified to ask no one used bedding and just slept on the mattresses.
Wait that's all the shark attack was??? I went through basic in 2023 and they literally did all of that too, just right after we did the first 100 yards
Went in 2014, our shark attack had us running to the drill pad carrying all of our shit. We had to hold all our crap up while the drills yelled at us and everything. If you dropped your bag, started crying or fucked up in someway you were fucked and they would swarm you and get in your face and let you have it. This went on for a few minutes.
After that, they did their creed while we were still holding our shit then they made us dump it all out while they checked for contraband. It was a pain in the ass because you ended up mixing your shit with the people next to you. I ended up losing a set of ACUs. We had to hurry up repack everything and then we got a 30 second phone call home. Then it was hurry the fuck up into your bay and put your shit away and that was it.
It wasn't bad, it was just some shock and awe to break people in. I didn't take anything said to me personally and I knew what I was getting into.
I don't think the shark attack was a bad thing but I also don't think any less of soldiers that didn't go through it.
Fuck *me.*
Be 1989. Ft. Knox. Get off the bus at oh-dark-fuckme and file in through the Amnesty room into the same cavernous classroom y'all saw in *Stripes* like it was funny, down to the unit crests on the gattdamn wall. Dump all your shit into the big gattdamn box and wait until the reception cadre inspect all your airplane-detonated-shaving-cream-covered shit. Then, and only then, might you be released to more cadre drills screaming incomprehensibly at you until you manage to figure out they want you to form a line with the rest of the equally discombobulated recruits in the springtime night, sweating with equal parts humidity and fear. Drag your tired ass at three minutes to dawn to the World-War-Two-era movie star barracks and lawndart yourself into the rack for all of eight luscious seconds of blissful unconsciousness before your locker gets fuckin' rekt and your rack gets tossed for giggles and examples' sake, along with every-fuckin-body else's. And oh yeah, fall out and fall in for haircuts and the rest of the reception shenanigans like ten seconds ago, Pri, you're already gattdamn late!
Thirty five fuckin' years ago, and I can *still* fuckin' remember that shit like it's happening now.
I guarantee they still smoke the shit out of new recruits in red phase. But you're right, shark attack really wasn't that bad. Pretty sure most of the guys I went to basic training with had been yelled at, at some point in their life. Most of us had all been in sports, like football, and had hell week.
What it really is, is a bunch of old farts clowning on newer generations of soldiers. They were probably doing that way back during the Civil War. "These young fucks don't know what Antietam was like, bunch of cherry fucks". Nothing's changed since then in that regards.
Shark Attack? First day from Reception Ft.Sill... we had a Chinese Fire Drill at 3am...after bunking down at about 0130.
Yeah we had those during Basic at least 4 times. Chinese Fire Drill... You take everything out of the barracks and set it up outside like inside. We ate breakfast on the first one at 10am.
Maybe my basic was different maybe it wasn't but we did the first 100 yards and then after that they just did that same shit in the bays. It didn't really do anything outside of what you'd expect.
I wouldn't say that the shark attack was any worse than what my mom would do to me if she caught me slacking off on my homework. The stress came later but it sure as hell wasn't because of an hour of screaming and yelling that you barely remembered 3 weeks into the cycle.
I worked in BCT during the transition and trainees are just soft in general. Most come from a sedentary lifestyle and are shocked by simple things like running and pushups. Mentally, there is very little resiliency. Basic helps but you have to put people in challenging situations for a long time to change them. The presence or lack of the shark attack didn't change much.
It was an enjoyable experience with some thrills. It builds character. If anything, it definitely made the ones who can't handle a little pressure stand out and be weeded out from the start. It's easier to save the American tax payers thousands of dollars than letting people slip through the cracks, although even then some did.
Worst Part of IET is reception. Getting yelled at and smoked after getting off the bus for 2 hours(or however long it was) was nothing compared to the insane boredom of 30th AG.
I wouldn't call soldiers soft because they didn't do the shark attack. I would say that there is a benefit of fear immediately from getting off the bus. Basic training has started. You are starting the process of becoming a member of the United States Military, the most powerful nation in the world. You are no longer a citizen bystander and a component of that force, no matter your MOS or if you're active duty, NG or reserve. It's a power to be feared and not taken lightly.
But I like metaphors though so I may be biased. I also just watched Band of Brothers recently so I got the Army motivation now.
nothing. it was what, an hour on the day before day 1 of BCT? soldiers aren't made in that one hour. if they were, then we could just do away with the ten weeks that follow.
Shark Attack? We called it Hell Day. They get everyone off the bus from both the front and back., yelling and screaming at what shitbags we were. We Formed up in the quad, then smoked for some period while the Drills checked out what they have to work with. Then after dumping our bags, inspected getting contraband removed, we put our duffles on our shoulder and ran around the starship in Sandhill. Then we ran up to the barracks still with the duffles on our backs. The drills turned off the fans and they turned the showers on full hot. Then we ran around the barracks through the latrine enjoying the steam bath. This was in June at Mother Benning. While running the barracks, the drills trashed everything. Then after a guy finally passed out, the medics checked him out and taken him down to sick call, They stopped us. We were told how to put our shit up, cleaned up the barracks, then back down to formation for more smoking. Which lasted till chow. First morning was PT at 0400.
I just remember in 2019, doing the “trail of tears” carrying all our shit to our BN footprint, and seeing this female recruit struggling with her bags crying about how she was going to quit. Having read the soldiers creed a million times out of the blue book half awake at vessy hall, me and another guy tried to help. Before I could even process what happened, Senior Drill comes up, spartan kicks the duffel bag out of our hands and tells us “CHIVALRY IS FUCKING DEAD, GET THE FUCK DOWN THE ROAD.”
The female soldier would be the first person I ever saw run a 30 minute 2 mile, she never showered, and they made sure that she was there long after we graduated because all she ever did was quit on herself.
Nothing. It provided nothing of significance to the overall process. They are missing out on seeing middle-aged people yell and scream like idiots. Which isn't scary of stress inducing, it's embarrassing for our organization.
I don’t think it’s the shark attack in particular. I think it’s the removal of high school degree or GED as an enlistment criteria and the ACFT standards that are passable by people who just rolled off the couch. When you take people who are near illiterate, are in terrible shape and have never worked for anything in their life and then push them through basic and AIT no matter what standards they meet or don’t.
"these new privates are soft. Anthony Wayne ruined training. Legionville is bullshit. These kids would have never made it in the Continental Line. We had real *discipline*"
I went through basic training in 1979 everyday was what you call a “shark attack”. But our shark attack was for 8 weeks straight from the minute arriving at ft Jackson to the day I left
My biggest gripe is hearing soldiers my generation and older constantly complain about the “New” generation having softer training.
Stuff like stress cards. I’ve literally never heard of them outside of boomer memes and old farts complaining. Not a single new Pvt has ever said they existed, but because facebook meme page says it does, the old dudes believe it.
What I love about Basic Training - love figuring out that there exists a society within a society where you can shout "Cum Receptacle" at the top of your lungs, and walk around in broad daylight with your testicles sticking out of your pants. And where Alcoholism is openly promoted and sobriety frowned upon. And Loyalty above integrity.
How about the haphazard Medical and background checks - like with that of an out-of-control, malfunctioning conveyor belt that is MEPS.
Who cares about the "shark attack". Do these guys even have experience as a Physical Trainer? The Shark Attack occurred at recruitment.
There's a lot of new soldiers in my unit who have zero respect for authority. They don't listen and are not afraid of talking back. I witnessed a PV2 talk back to a SFC like it was no big deal. I feel as if the "scare tactics" really helped support the Army good order and discipline standards. In my opinion, the change in soldiers behavior was very evident after the implementation of the new standards at BCT. it's creating an undisciplined and unmotivated fighting force. Not to mention they are practically giving away 10's of thousands of dollars to teenagers when it would be cheaper to give that money to those already in and retain good knowledge.
It's the very first bit of training on how to deal with stress. Now btc guys have a stress card they can pull out and I think that's bullshit. Combat isn't gonna care if your stressed.
There is one thing I forgot to say. Like some others have said, the shark attack is needed to weed out those who cannot handle stress. The time to weed those soldiers out is basic training. It’s way too late to be doing that when they go to their unit and then deploy. That could get themselves and other soldiers killed. That’s why shark attack is needed. Now, they can do it in another ways, it doesn’t have to be the exact same thing that we knew of before. But, basic training needs to be able to weed out soldiers who are a liability. If it doesn’t, then it’s not affective. It will also only lead to more casualties later down the line.
Went to basic just over 8 years ago. The day we left reception, it was powering rain. I mean, just buckets from the sky. We march to our barracks and everyone was soaked. The drill were quiet, we were quiet. Just overall shitty. I didn't have a shark attack, but man was that first day rough. Our stuff, that they threw in the back room, was all covered in mold when we went to get it at the end of basic from the rain.
In 2014, my big drill would scream at us in our face. He scream at the kid next to me while spitting and screaming at the same time. His spit kept on landing on my face but I dare not to move or wipe it away.
I went through OSUT in 1987 at Ft. Leonard-wood. We were in reception for 2 weeks. We had this guy with all these Soldier of Fortune and Gun type magazines. He would tell us all how much of a killer he was. Being from Oregon I hung out with this guy named Joe from Oregon . We did pt on our own as we knew the other shoe was going to drop at some point.
One day they had us with our duffel bags in grass squares in front these buildings. Cattle cars pulled up, Drill Sergeants got off of them. The Drill Sergeants went around introducing themselves and talking to people. Like the overweight guy eating a candy bar. They then loaded us into the cattle cars. They were polite, no yelling, until the doors on the cattle cars shut. Then they told us what they really thought about us.
The cattle cars drove around for a bit then stopped. We had 3 seconds to un-ass their vehicles and 2 seconds were already gone. We ran maybe 100 yards, maybe less, to this concrete area that had 3’x3’ squares it was divided into. We each got assigned a square. The Drill Sergeant in charge would yell for us to show an issued item. This is while holding our duffel bags open with hand and elbow on one arm. You couldn’t find the item fast enough and eventually everyone’s shit got dumped in front of them. Then we had to find issues items and put them in the duffel. While doing this other Drill Sergeants were pouncing on trainees.
We then got assigned to a barracks floor and room. We went and put our stuff in locker and fell back out for formation. We were marched to chow hall and fed. We weren’t allowed to even look at soda machines in the chow hall. Some puked in their plate they were so physically and mentally stressed.
After chow we were marched back to our company area. The Senior Drill Sergeant told us it was a volunteer Army. It was just going to get harder than what we had just experienced. If we had changed our mind, now was the time to let them know. If you didn’t want to be there, they didn’t want you there. They told those that changed their mind to fall out to the rear. I heard people moving. My Dad was prior Army and a platoon sergeant in the National Guard so I knew better but wouldn’t have left anyway. Those of us still in formation were then ordered to “ about face.” The Senior Drill Sergeant then pointed at those who left the formation and yelled,” These are the men who will desert you in combat.” Of course Uncle Sam owned your ass, you were going nowhere. Those guys got smoked all night. Ah, memories.
IMO, Shark Attacks were not only the first thing after getting off the bus/100 yd run for inventories, but also any time after when several DS got in your crap for being stupid. It reminds the kids that they aren't hot shit and instills the discipline so they aren't ate up when they get to their units.
When through in 2011 and mine was a bit more intense than that, but generally the same outcome. I do think there's something to be said about the shock value though. There were drill sergeants everywhere! Shouting! Megaphones! And holy shit we got the hell smoked out of us. We went to bed exhausted and terrified.
From a psychological standpoint the shark attack was an attempt at stress inoculation. By making the first thing recruits experience a stressful event that must be navigated they learn that they have within themselves the intestinal fortitude to overcome that stress and they are ok.
Just a thought. There are a million ways to accomplish this. But like my drill sergeant told me; *“People only learn on of two ways, repetition, or serious emotional events, I am here to provide you with both”.*
I went to basic in 2011.
The shark attack was brutal and effective because it prepared you mentally for the shitstorm that basic training was going to be back then, and pretexted you for how you should respond throughout basic training to get through it successfully, IMO. It was a long day, we got the dogshit smoked out of us from like, 84 different angles, our 1SG (which you honestly rarely ever see) even told us much later about the counselings they had to give the DS' for all that crap to CTA, etc...
It also was far from being the only method of achieving the aforementioned result. What do new trainees miss out on by not having a shark attack? Absolutely nothing, honestly. A drill sergeant (or any leader, really) that knows the difference between abuse and inducing positive stress will get the results they want regardless, if you ask me.
I did the first 100 yards and it was just carrying shit from point a to point b and putting back in the same way you found it then doing like 25m kettle bell carries against the other platoons and whoever got them best score in all the events got to eat first. Then we got our bags (mine got lost then I got chewed out for some other companies drill for taking my bag) we did the whole layout stuff along while getting smoked if you couldn’t find it in 2 seconds, then we got our rifles and the rest is kind of a blur, I remember some kid heat catted the first day and I was his battle buddy for the drill sergeant like reading to him why he was failing training then half way through the drill decided it was bullshit and just made the kid carry around a cot because he was on bed rest so during pt he would just lay down in the cot
That’s arguably funnier than the shark attack.
We didn’t realize how funny it was until like a month later we were all pissed because the mf would be snoring while we were getting fucked up
Lord 😂
I'm glad to hear the drills are still creative with their punishments. Carrying around a cot is hilarious.
that just sounds like a shark attack but a little bit different. and maybe a little bit more? Like i guess your missing all the training battalion's drills yelling at you while you run and just ignore them all the way to your company area?
Yeah you just get screamed at to run faster while carrying shit and it’s way more than 100 yards and it’s just your companies drills yelling at you for that. If we didn’t stay in a group we got smoked along the way. We got to watch another cycle do their 100 yards and they weren’t even getting yelled at the run it was wack. They do have the fire alarms pulled for it tho they also have firecrackers
See I got the best of both worlds, when I shipped to my BCT Co. we did a 50/50 shark attach & first 100 yards combined. So we got smoked & yelled at holding duffel bags above our heads for the first 15min , then we went about the first 100 yards.
>made the kid carry around a cot because he was on bed rest This is hysterical
Every "old" generation talks poorly of the new generation. Imagine what I think about you... no wait, your PSG and his first PSG... I went through BCT in 1990 and I commanded a BCT company in 2008. You know what the biggest difference in my experience as a trainee, my experience as a Commander and your experience? Pretty much nothing. It's all about the same. The old generation was great, you're great, and the new guys are great. We're all in this together
None of us were that great, let’s be real.
But the same great. No better, no worse.
Every single generation is really just the “mediocre generation that does what needs to be done.” I talked to a WW2 vet in 2014 and it stuck with me that he said yeah he invaded Europe and it sucked…but he was over there for less time than most units did for a single deployment, they got to see amazing progress, then he was done and came back a hero surrounded by other veterans. Said he couldn’t imagine doing what people did today or in Vietnam where they rotated endlessly through with no real point to what they were doing.
True. I wouldn't be surprised it the generation that fought in World War 2 were talked poorly about by the previous generation.
Just imagine a ww1 E3 who survived the war, got out, stayed in and is prob a first Sgt when the ww2 breaks out; Making his guys did trench lines for miles, and arguing on why his stables haven’t been built yet for his logistics line of horses he is expecting PFC snuffy pulls up in a 1/2 ton 1sgt; back in my day, in [belleau wood…](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Belleau_Wood)
Always reminds me if naval warships in WW1. The captains for those near modern battleships were often trained on sailingships and sometimes just didn't use radio in favor of signal flags. Technology went so damn fast.
People forget that the first powered flight by the Wright brothers was at the end of 1903, 4 decades later we are high altitude carpet bombing Europe.
Orville Wright died in 1948. He lived to watch aviation technology go from "Holy shit we just flew for a whole minute - this is revolutionary!" to watching a strategic bomber drop the fuckin' sun twice on Japan. That's even more wild to me.
They were. There's a famous Gallup poll from 1940 that said basically: "Americans believe that today's youth are weak, lazy, and yellow (ie cowardly)."
EB Sledge talked about it in his book”With the Old Breed”. From the pov of the new ww2 Marines.
“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” — Socrates
Sadly, not actually a Socrates quote, although point taken.
Brits made a propaganda movie on this theme, "The Way Ahead". All this "conscripts getting ready for a war" with regular shots of older vets complaining how these youngsters suck and if they weren't that old the war would be won already.
One of the last speeches SMA Grinston gave he said, "If anybody tells you what's going on with your generation... or any of that, it's straight crap. You're great, and you're going to be greater than we ever were." Dude really epitomized what the position should be IMO. Took a little work on his end, but he will forever be cemented as one of the more influential leaders in my career. Hoping his replacement steps up eventually.
> Hoping his replacement steps up eventually. Come on, don't delude yourself :(
Report to SMA's hot tub immediately for new razors and discipline re-education.
Took SMA Grinston about a year to get to greatness. I was a huge doubter at the beginning. There is still some hope.
[удалено]
>calling people out for their behavior is amplifying their voice
Same energy as "racism was dead in the US until Obama got elected"
"Maybe you should have had a real shark attack lol" Okay so describe just what a "real shark attack" was lol.
Back in my day, we left 30th AG and had to swim through a moat *filled with actual sharks.* Nowadays it's just a metaphor for pansies.
The Army was probably more like the Marine Corps back then.
Back in my day the drill just killed trainees they didn't like. They just fucking killed them right there in the company area.
I did the first 100. At least for osut I could tell you there not being an official “shark attack” that does not mean practically the same thing happens once you are behind closed doors in the bay. We quite literally got smoked from 6 am til after dinner and only ate mres. While I think it’s dumb we broke that tradition the drill sergeants still make sure the same message gets across.
Similar thing with basic at Fort Sill, first 100 wasn’t too bad, yes there was some yelling but the DSes weren’t being aggressive The moment we got to the battery, completely different story, we were getting smoked every 5 seconds as a whole battery for any mistake no matter how minor and if it was done by one person, then there were the shower drills that started at like 1900 That went on for the first 3 days, I remember that after lights out on the third day, we all celebrated that we made it past the first 72 since we were warned during reception that it was one of the hardest part of basic
People act like getting rid of the shark attack means drill sergeants hand you ice cream off the bus. First 100 yards, if anything was just a practical way to introduce us to the ACFT. You’re still getting yelled at, you’re still tired, it’s still hot and it’s still BCT.
Other than set the conditions and prep some fear mindset, not a lot of value added for doing that stuff. I did both Marine and Army boot camp. There's quite honestly very good arguments for both techniques during boot camp. That being said, I can recite bullshit I learned 31 years ago in Marine Corps boot camp *verbatim*. I remember a bunch of training I got back then, but relatively little of anything I got in Army boot camp.
Grand old man of the Marine Corps is..... Also prior service Marine and current Army here, I never went to Army boot camp but when I hear about the "shark attack", it's like cool story, we had 3 straight months of "shark attack"
I honestly dont have the shark attack stick out in my mind. It was just 10 weeks of getting dropped and yelled at for arbitrary reasons really. The thing that does stand out was doing shower drills. I went in wearing large PT shorts and came out wearing a small. No idea who ended up with my pair.
😂😂😂
The shark attack was much more mild than subsequent smoke sessions we had. Probably because it's a big event with people there taking pictures and enjoying the spectacle. Drills really couldn't do what they actually wanted without risking getting in trouble.
I went through in 2009. I thought the shark attack was stupid. I was just confused the whole time. I don’t think anybody is missing out on anything. Except getting spit on if that’s your thing. No judgement
I went through in 08. It taught me that items like detergent should be properly packed and secured otherwise you'd have it dripping down on you while holding a duffle above your head.
Well, there’s that.
Saw a guy at sick call who was on day 3, covered everywhere in deep red burns, looked like he was in a fire. Lesson was, be careful wearing a uniform covered in detergent.
There were kids in your basic training company who have never experienced any kind of stress or pressure testing. The sheltered ones who you saw fumble fuck everything they did on shark attack day. The ones who can’t even seem to figure out how to put on a hat while someone is yelling mean words at them. Those people don’t need to be handed a loaded rifle and stuck in the middle of Ramadi. They need to learn how it feels to be stressed first so we know they’re not going to have a fucking panic attack at the first sign of a little pressure, let alone the pressure of combat
We had people try to quit after the shark attack. One Texan who had a Ranger contract got hauled off to the mental hospital for saying he was going to kill himself or others. It never occurred to me that it actually served a purpose until now.
Here's what the new soldiers are missing - that "no shit you just signed your life away to the Army" moment when it hits you. When the drills came and got us for pickup it was that line when we knew that basic had started and pretty much setup that the Drills were in charge. When the drills were taken out of AIT the change was palpable - new IET soldiers came to line units with no discipline. After years of this the Army put the Drills back in AIT. Any good cadre are best and shaking up and "melting" Mommy and Daddy's special little snowflakes with just yelling and a mild workout. No cursing, no touching. Because - as u/hobohaha points out - some of the little shits NEED to go home. The recruiter made a mistake, their parents failed them, they are just shitbirds or all of the above. If they can't take being yelled at in a controlled environment, I refuse to have them to my left and right in formation. If their feelings are hurt because the mean DS yelled at them as they stepped off the bus, they won't handle me or my NCO yelling at them when they fail a crew drill.
governor shame telephone cows forgetful squeal include murky ring faulty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sigh, Army gonna Army.
Some counterpoints for your consideration: unlike draftees in the past who needed to be mentally beaten into submission we are a volunteer force now. Yes there are some shitheads but they often end up Ch. 11 anyway whether or not some DS yelled at them. They are aware the DS is in charge, it's just we use the 1st 100 yards to focus that stress into meaningful exercise that starts trying to build teamwork from the trainees right away rather than just spitting in their faces or doing exercises that serve little physical function other than to tear rotator cuffs or break ankles which only delays getting trained Soldiers to units. Same reason we can still make them push or do squats till they throw up but we can't have them do overhead arm claps for 30 minutes straight; it was a way to inflict pain without any physical benefit. When I went through AIT I had an awesome NCO for a PSG. He actually gave a shit about us to the point other PLTs has Soldiers trying to go to him because he was the one who would stay late to push paperwork to get pay issues corrected, not let the polygraphers keep us waiting forever, fight to get married folks orders early so families could prepare, etc. He only ever had to raise his voice to the few aforementioned shitheads because everyone else respected the hell out of him. The fact so many discipline issues are blamed on having PSGs instead of DS in AIT is not Army leadership's fault, it's the fault of bad NCOs who didn't give a fuck thinking it was a cushy job rather than enforcing standards. Modern Drills aren't told we have to be hard asses to be successful, we're simply told to be good NCOs rather than lazy, incompetent, or assholes (when unwarranted). Also, when they step off that bus they are still civilians who haven't gone through 10 weeks of BCT then OSUT or AIT so you shouldn't expect them to perform the same way you'd expect a new Soldier arriving to their unit would. IET simply turns civilians into new Soldiers then makes them MOS-Q to the most basic level, units are still expected to continue that training. I make sure to tell our AIT Soldiers we have limits because they're still in that formative phase but gloves come off when they get to FORSCOM and are expected to perform.
>Some counterpoints for your consideration: unlike draftees in the past who needed to be mentally beaten into submission we are a volunteer force now. Yes there are some shitheads but they often end up Ch. 11 anyway whether or not some DS yelled at them. > >They are aware the DS is in charge, it's just we use the 1st 100 yards to focus that stress into meaningful exercise that starts trying to build teamwork from the trainees right away rather than just spitting in their faces or doing exercises that serve little physical function other than to tear rotator cuffs or break ankles which only delays getting trained Soldiers to units. The Marines have a much more "forceful" reception for new recruits. AFAIK spitting or slapping them was never permitted. It's that the shark attack does separate those who can't hack it from those who want to work. >When I went through AIT I had an awesome NCO for a PSG. He actually gave a shit about us to the point other PLTs has Soldiers trying to go to him because he was the one who would stay late to push paperwork to get pay issues corrected, not let the polygraphers keep us waiting forever, fight to get married folks orders early so families could prepare, etc. He only ever had to raise his voice to the few aforementioned shitheads because everyone else respected the hell out of him. I too had AIT Drills and an AIT NCO who never had to yell. The problem is that their supply seems to be limited but the supply of smart ass recruits seems to be endless. My 2nd AIT, we were supposed to be doing maintenance exercises in the POMPT (PATRIOT main. trainer). As a transition, us prior service guys were hip deep in the manuals and pushing buttons. All the new IET soldiers were talking so loud we could barely hear ourselves. The room still had the special tile where the DS used to stand - the civie instructor told me when they had Dills in AIT you could hear a pin drop when classes were given. Even when the Drills weren't there because they were a phone call away. >Also, when they step off that bus they are still civilians who haven't gone through 10 weeks of BCT then OSUT or AIT so you shouldn't expect them to perform the same way you'd expect a new Soldier arriving to their unit would. IET simply turns civilians into new Soldiers then makes them MOS-Q to the most basic level, units are still expected to continue that training. I make sure to tell our AIT Soldiers we have limits because they're still in that formative phase but gloves come off when they get to FORSCOM and are expected to perform. You know that I know that but try telling HQDA, think tanks and many commanders that. The whole reason IET soldiers get a firm (yet fair) hand is because they are okay when they have that Brown Round standing nearby but absolute shit as soon as they know they won't be yelled at. When they get to FORSCOM, the change is sink or swim. The problem was that TRADOC pawned off way to much to line units - "you'll learn this at your line unit". No we didn't, they were too busy until it became a problem. Also TRADOC lowered standards during GWOT. The Shark Attack was a little stress on the new recruits that established that the Drills were IN CHARGE. IET solders tended to forget that and the ones who were in AIT when NCO's were cadre quickly took advantage of not being yelled at by committing so many UCMJ infractions. The ones that graduated showed their asses to their NCO's. IET needs to be a constant cycle of discipline until that soldier is MOS-Q'd and then the line unit can take it from there.
Eh. I feel like units can handle that better. You got a point though.
Yeah true that. It could also be tailored to the individual in that case, which would honestly be better.
You get the stress and shit built in with the rest of the training. The new thing is functionally doing what you said anyway, just stressing you out. There’s a lot better ways to prepare someone for stressful situations than just screaming at them for 10 weeks.
Totally agree, but the best way isn’t always the most efficient way, and training an army of warfighters needs to be pretty efficient
I thought the shark attack was hilarious. Pure mayhem.
“BACK IN MY DAY….WE HAD ACTUAL SHARKS ATTACKING US AS WE GOT OFF THE BUS”
"WITH FRIGGIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS!"
“WHILE RUNNING BAREFOOT ON BROKEN GLASS”
IN THE SNOW, UPHILL
WHILE BUT NAKED AND SHAVING WITH A K BAR AND CLP
AND DRAGGING MY BATTLE BUDDY BEHIND ME ON A SLED
I went through in the early 2000s and received what I believed to be a “proper” shark attack. The quiet bus ride from reception at Knox to a random field where I spent a long time doing bag drills and listening to everyone being told they were fuck ups. We spent what what felt like days in that field, putting bags over our heads, even when we couldn’t anymore. I don’t remember how or when it ended but it was the last time I was happy to be ordered into the barracks. I went to the drill academy, and I remember being insulted by some boot licking staff sergeant who had never deployed, screaming at me for really no reason. I still didn’t care for it, for the same reason I didn’t like it ten years prior. Not knowing what came next. I was a Drill when the “first hundred yards” or “thunder run” was an idea. I was the 1SG for the troop to run a “thunder run”. Nothing changed. Those kids still got off the bus confused. They still had people yelling at them. Sure, guys could maybe hide out a bit easier and not deal with as much physical exertion as before but they were probably hiding in every era. Those kids did that loop and had no fucking clue what was next. They were just as sleep deprived, scared, and confused as any other idiot who wandered through BCT. The only thing that changed was how the emotional pressure was applied. The variable of a loose cannon Drill was largely removed and instead trainees were greeted with a scripted event designed to invoke the same confusion. Who gives a shit? Quality NCOs and adherence to the standard produces quality soldiers post BCT/AIT/OSUT. They all leave stupid and needing more training at the unit (OJT) to work well in their organization. Some kids will grasps it, some later and than others. Some kids just won’t. What happens after they get off the bus doesn’t matter, they got off the bus.
Because at the end of the day we are all fucking dead and people need to assign meaning to the things that happened to them in their life.
Thank you, Lt. Speirs. If you didn't say it, I would have.
Want a smoke?
There are some things that I wish BCT does better but honestly not including a shark attack is pretty low on the scale of what I care about. I felt relatively ambivalent about it when they took it away. I didn’t gain anything out of it as a “training event” and it was honestly just a giant cluster fuck. Exercising patience standing around in line all day at reception arguably prepared me more for what the Army was going to be like. Nobody can articulate why that event should be kept or what it’s value would be compared to other events.
All I remember from my “shark attack” was me eating shit while getting off of the bus, so it must’ve not had that much of an impact if I can’t even remember something from 8 years ago
I never had to eat fecal matter. You win.
My shark attack in 2008 was hilarious. One of our drill sergeants looked exactly like Stone Cold Steve Austin and got right up in my face yelling “I’m going to make your life a living hell!” It was all I could do to keep a straight face.
I probably would have thought to myself "What? What?" like Stone Cold would say.
Back in my day i would have uppercutted that drill sergeant so hard his commander would have resigned. Guess im just tougher than literally everyone who happened to join after me, nbd
I was front of our formationl while the Senior DS was doing the incomprehensible introctory speech, and directly across from me, one of my DS kept doing this weird twitch thing with his mustache and kind of just looking around, and I realized he was just really bored. I found it pretty funny and instantly humanized the whole lot of them.
BTW I did have a first sergeant at one unit who was tall and had a shaved head like the wrestler Baron Corbin lol.
They’re not missing anything other than something that’s a tradition, just like a promotion ceremony or promotions boards etc. It’s just something that’s tradition that some people didn’t want to see go away from, how I see it is a lot of people in the Army hate change. That’s why every older generation talks down about the newer generation of the Army, it’s an endless cycle “ohh you guys have beards, you’re so soft now”. I had a MSG call me soft once because I said “I can’t wait to go home and shower” after a field problem
I was just talking to a civilian man today whose dad was a retired master sergeant. He said his dad told him not to join, not because the military is crazy with toxic leadership and politics, not because the Army especially FORSCOM is arguably more ridiculous than say the Air Force is, but because the Army is "not how it used to be" and he mentioned the fact that some soldiers have beards now as an example.
So this guy was just talking out of his ass. Yea toxic leadership whatever, but defaulting to "its not how it used to be" really means they are just out of touch, old, and can't find legitimate examples.
“Newer generations” “basic in 2017” Lol
Idk the drill sergeants had some funny as fuck things they said and did. One drill sergeant was like frothing at the mouth screaming climbing over the seats of the bus yelling to for us get off his bus. It was just absolute pandemonium of 18 year olds scared shitless running around. I'll always cherish those memories.
Missing absolutely nothing. The Army changed.
Geez (insert some random not quite boomer words here) I'm old, old. I had a drill of the year in my vacation extravaganza lmao. Seriously I hope they got help after. They were coming unwound. I went to basic in 1983. No I did not see any dinosaurs on road marches. Except that brigade commander that went by in a Chrysler K car (you'll need Google) painted mint green. He had the windows up rocking a/c. Jackson in August sucks. My dad was Army, yeah I drank the Flavor-Aid (one of 6 kids no name brand for us) and my son really should have been more street wise lol. Son's retired. It's the same shit different shade every year. Years turn into decades. Honestly of everything. Military or not. Folks want to have their experience validated. It's the military. We answer the same silly shit, we do the same silly drills, we march the same silly formations, we memorize out of the same silly manual that's had minor updates over the decades turned into centuries. Different people. Same ol' things. Different interpretations. I'll have the senior Dave's Junior Combo I've got a coupon for a free Frosty.
They’re missing nothing The dudes who never shut the fuck up about the shark attack being gone are the same dumbasses who peaked in basic training If anything the new shit they’re doing creates more camaraderie and teamwork than the shark attack ever did
No one talked to me during the "shark attack" so I'm not sure it matters. We all lifted our bags up and threw them down. Others got berated. At most, it was a dick move to make our laundry detergent bottles break. Other than that, it wasn't some event worth remembering. It didn't stick out. It's not that important. It didn't set the tone.
Shark Attack is the only reason the US has won every battle since our victory at Thermopylae. God help us now...
I had a neighbor who had been drafted and served in Vietnam, and I remember him bitching about how soft basic was in modern times (I think this was in 83 or 84,) and that back in his day drill sergeants used to kick them in the stomach, and would kick them in the sides when doing push ups.
I went through in 1985. You still had some of that where Drills would hit or kick recruits. It was officially frowned upon and was the last gasp of a dying tradition.
I was in the Marines several years ago, and as I write this, I'm at Ft Moore for infantry OSUT. As prior service I get a lot of special privileges including my phone. The first 100 yards wasn't a bad thing. In fact, the narrative about going over the top in WW1 is the only history they've taught us. BCT is softer than baby shit, but the problem isn't the missing shark attacks, it's all the down time. Whatever training event we have scheduled is usually done by 1400 or 1500 and then the trainees are sent upstairs for "bay maintenance," until dinner chow. There is seldom a drill sergeant in the bay and most of the kids are napping. We were barely a week into red phase when this started. After dinner, we are secured for personal time and personal hygiene. Trainees in BCT have a no shit 8 hour day from 0600-1400 before turning in and fucking off for the rest of the evening. Discipline and motivation are non-existent. I don't know if the problem is not enough drill sergeants, or if mine just don't care, but these kids are going to die.
What are the missing? Absolutely nothing, maybe they are missing the waste of time the shark attack was/is. Generations of soldiers won America’s wars well before someone invented the stupidity that is the shark attack.
It made you the man that you are today son!
To caveat off this preemptor, it feels good man. Direct your attention to my demonstrator.
I somehow missed the shark attack with a few other people who were on a detail. I guess that makes me not as tough as pvt Sel***, who experienced the shark attack. He was also too tough to follow simple instructions, stay healthy for more than a day, or wash himself. Needless to say that shark attack veteran passed basic training.
Shit, doesn’t even sound like you went through much of a shark attack. My shark attack had smoke grenades, arty sims popping off right and left, dudes getting laid out with duffel bags. Drills snatching people’s duffels, ripping them open, and throwing their shit all over the place. I got hit in the face with someone’s spare boots that a drill just lobbed into a crowd of scrambling privates, and spent our roughly two hour long shark attack covered in blood from my upper lip and my nose.
I mean I did this too in 2022. We just did it *after* the first 100. At least it feels like the first 100 actually serves a purpose to sort of enhance camaraderie and working as a team. If you did literally any sort of research or watch any videos prior to BCT, it wasn’t hard to recognize that the DS yelling served a purpose and to just ‘play the game’. I can’t imagine it being much different for the shark attack.
I went through in 2013. Had my favorite pair of fingernail clippers almost taken by a DS who thought I might try to stab someone. (Had the finger nail file that twisted around while not in use) Reception week was by far the worst part of BCT to me. Those individuals in charge really did not give AF. I would go through weeks of shark attacks to never have to experience that week again. To the point of the “Shark Attack”. Was it necessary? No, not from a value-add standpoint of winning wars. Nothing happened in those couple of hours that could magically change who we were. However, It was the first time in my life that everybody in the room was on an equal playing field. There were no favorites, no teachers pets, no one got left out, everybody got the smoke. I saw individuals I just spoke to on the bus talk about how they played sports and then watched them fumble around with trying to close a duffel bag with somebody yelling at them. A couple of folks literally fell out of the trailer trying to get out who could probably run an 11 minute two mile in the right condition’s. The added pressure of someone yelling at you while doing basic tasks can really hinder your ability to perform those task under normal conditions. Was the shark attack going to make you a great Soldier? No. Was it to give you a reality check that you might not be as good as you think you are under pressure and need to work on critical thinking in unusual circumstances ? Maybe. Was it funny af watching everybody during that time. Absolutely.
I enlisted in 09. They still had shark attack. It's overhyped and anyone that thought it was the scariest thing in their life definitely did nothing worthwhile in the Army. I don't think new Soldiers are missing out on anything. Even the whole idea of "breaking Soldier out of civilian mentality" is something that happens throughout IET; and not something that happens just because you did that one thing on day 0 of BCT.
Wow, my zero day was brutal. People crying, puking, DS driving the point home your ass now was not your own. And this was 97!
Absolutely nothing. The shark attack has been replace with a team building exercise called the “First 100”, followed by an unofficial shark attack during the layout. I can 100% guarantee you that they get the same experience. - prior BCT Commander
I feel you in the last part. Some people say " The first time they are stressed shouldn't be in combat" acting like the trainess don't go through OUST then training with their units PLUS when they get to MOB training. As if they immediately jump from basic to deployment.
I think what really will define your attitude and whether you are “hard” or not is your first couple years at your duty station, not basic training. The type of leadership a JR enlisted has will develop the way of thinking and attitude that SM will have for however long they may stay in the army.
I enjoyed it. Some guys were crying in their bunks that night. But I took it as a personal challenge after that first hour or so. I also quickly realized that we were not able to meet the standards given to us. That was somehow refreshing. To just do my best. I have no idea if the shark attack was responsible for that or not, but it set me up for a productive BT.
Hell, I didn’t even realize that the shark attack happened until like 3 days later. I just thought it was a regular smoke session tbh.
I think the shark attack probably had an incredible effect decades ago before everyone knew what to expect going in. Now with social media and the spread of information about basic training, it's almost a formality more than anything. Mine was underwhelming, I was just relieved to be away from 30th AG. I have the distinct memory of doing pushups and just being happy.
Honestly, I bet if we go back to Ancient Greece, we would find old guys talking about how the new generation of kids did not get the same level of discipline they did and the quality of phalanx will suffer.
It’s about abuse and how much you can take. It’s meant to be your introduction to a whole new way of life. It should shock and scare new recruits. It doesn’t make anyone hard, it’s just a bunch of dudes yelling at you. It’s literally the first easy step that can lead to a lot of other “hard” shit. Honestly though, you’re probably just a dirty fucking leg. And I’m not allowed to talk to legs. I’m only allowed to eat wings. It sucks because all the meat is on the drumstick. Way she goes, bud.
You put sucks, meat and drumstick in the same sentence. Sounds like you’re really a cav scout.
Ya got me lol
Fucking nothing? What did we learn? Team work? No, to be resilient against adversity? No, get yelled at for hours without knowing the proper context of the situation, yep, basic is meant to refocus and change your mindset, Drill sergeants, are meant to be teachers, leaders and example to follow, something to look and have a desire to be like that drill sergeant, not just dickheads that yell at trainees or mtd that slack off, plus is FUCKING BASIC, soldiers learn through time with proper teaching and tools, mtf don't become honored soldiers in 2 moths, people compare extremely exceptional soldiers with your regular joe
Red phase is still red phase you old dummies.
It's about being able to focus under pressure. I'm not saying this to condone or say whether it's good or bad etc.. just stating the purpose. Can you function under "extreme" pressure. For most people that experience is probably the most pressure they have been under. Can you process what is going on, basic instructions and do what's being asked (screamed) while maintaining some semblance of control. Remember basic training is a conglomerate of people from ALL walks of life. Well educated, not educated, southern, urban, country.... all coming together. So they need to break EVERYONE down to a basic level and begin to build from there so everyone is on the same page.
All I remember is some mean short drill sergeant yelling at me about my hat asking me about if I wanted to go to a baseball game. My dumbass said yeah I wanna go. I guess that wasn’t the answer she wanted. Edit: I do remember the shower drills now that someone mentioned it. I’m not sure there’s much training value except trying to humiliate recruits.
Breaks the soldier from a sense of entitlement that they have been used to. It’s not the “smoke fest” part that is important as much as the drill sergeant getting in the soldiers face and instilling fear is. It’s a psych thing for obedience, same type of stuff gets done in SERE but at a more intense level.
I was wondering what you meant by ‘shark attack’..read a bit, then thought-oh, that’s pretty much basic training 🤣 That first day was hysterical, when I look back on it. We had to dump out our luggage (I came straight from mini basic at my NG unit-so I had a duffel bag) and they mocked every civilian thing we had, they were savage. I will never forget one person in my platoon with a big ass suitcase. I have no idea what the fuck she was thinking 🤔 Then they got in our faces and screamed ‘why are you at basic? Do you want to mooch off the government?’ *um, yes* Are you a patriot? *sure, Drill SG* you liar! Drop!🤣
We didn’t have to hold our bags above our heads but they were on our backs while we got swarmed by all of the drill sergeants. Our Senior DS was on a loud speaker while we all were pushing the earth. Every time some fucked up or couldn’t do it we pushed more. Drills were in our face the whole time Edit: this was early 2022 and we all had covid masks on our faces
Funny story for when they’re older 🤷♂️
Drill SGT 1 walking past: Pick up your duffel bag and hold it over your head! Drill SGT 2 walking behind: Put your duffel bags down! Drill SGT 1: I didn't tell you to put your duffel down! Pick up your civvie bag and hold it over your head! That interaction made me the man I am today. It shaped me, molded me, defines my very being. It solidified me into the lethal killing machine that now sits with painful knees and ankles and back at a desk for most of the day.
Reject modernity, embrace tradition.
The only thing I really learned from the shark attack was that if you don’t make a scene, the drills will quickly get bored of yelling at you in favor of some other clueless asshole. Cue 10 weeks later when I was repeatedly asked just days before graduation “have you been here the whole time, pri?”
I think things like the shark attack worked when they were a surprise and gave people the experience of reacting to stressful events. These days, a trainee with half a brain would have watched a dozen or more videos about basic in YouTube and already know exactly what's happening. You could know the training schedule almost to the day before you go to basic. When you think of it that way, the shark attack thing is kind of a waste of time. I do think acclimating to stress is important. But there are plenty of ways to accomplish that.
Every single generation of the military has did some things different and despite what all the "back in my Army" people say no group is inherently better or worse because of any nonsense they had to endure. And every generation thinks they were harder than the next one All the, "we didn't go to sick call back in my army" are spending their retirement years fighting with VA claims for eternity whilenthe new gen is getting 100% because they have documents to shop. The "they could cuss us out and fight us behind the connex in my army" struggle to transition and fit in with civilian jobs because they have to relearn how to talk to people calmly and respectfully. At the end of the day the Army evolves to keep up with society standards and the people evolve as they learn certain ways of doing things don't actually add value to the training and/or mission, or that the value added doesn't outweigh the risk.
They missed nothing. It was a pointless waste of time. I hated it as a drill sergeant. Hello trainees. I’m the epitome of professionalism. Watch as I scream at you like a brain damaged ape and make you do pointless thing that teach you nothing. We are the most professional and disciplined military in the world. Observe. The whole thing drove me nuts. Much better use of time to conduct layouts and initial counseling and present myself and my drills as the professionals we were.
I went through basic in 2011 and I’ve been out since 2016, so there’s some context for my take. People don’t have the same experiences. One person in basic might be from the mean streets of Hell’s Kitchen, and another from a rich suburb in New Hampshire. Those people are going to respond to stress very differently. Someone’s potential first time being stressed should not be in combat. Imagine taking that rich suburbanite, having plausibly never experienced any hardship or pressure, and putting that person in a combat zone. They’ve never had to perform a technical task, like clearing a malfunction, under extreme pressure. You can’t guarantee how they’d respond. That’s not good. Alternatively, if you expose a trainee to an extreme amount of stress, a little sleep deprivation, and a little hunger, when the time comes for them to perform their job in those conditions, their response can be a little more predictable. They may have never been shot at, but we at least know they can reload their weapon while someone is screaming in their face and not curl up in a ball on the ground. Again this is my opinion, but I think the “shark attack” and general callous nature of basic training levels the playing field. It really hammers into your brain that you’re not a civilian anymore, and you have to start thinking like a soldier. Break them down, call them names, tell them everything they’ve ever done in life is wrong and stupid until they believe it…and then you teach them the right way, the *army* way. That’s how you indoctrinate someone, and it’s why I still carry things in my left hand after being out of the army for almost 8 years and can also speak in a calm voice on the radio when I have a patient tanking in the back of my ambulance. It works. We just gotta see if the new way works too.
I see what you're saying but still we went though way more craziness and smoking inside the bays than we did in the little bit of time outside when we first met the drill sergeants while the ladies were standing around taking pictures.
I think it’s important because it immediately exposes our new soldiers to a chaotic and unnatural environment. It’s important to determining who can and cannot hang in those environments.
I don't know about the "first 100 yards" but I assume that's a decent replacement. I would rather do pushups for 10 or 20 minutes than run 100 yards carrying stuff while wearing a uniform and boots.
Staying calm and keeping composure during high stress situations. The problem with this is there's much more scientific and impactful ways to do this. A lot has changed in psychology and training. The need for this type of training environment isn't as necessary.
Seeing the way privates show up to units now a days? Yes. This is accurate, they are soft. Trainees come to new units with zero respect, zero discipline and walk around acting like sergeants are their best friends and then are surprised and a sergeant gets pissed off. They don't understand the hierarchy of the army. The army used to be where you had to earn your place in the unit, it wasn't just given to you.
It is a sense of camaraderie that they won't experience. Also, actions under pressure.
I did the first 100. Despite the fact that they supposedly removed the shark attack, I experienced it before the first 100. Everyone got off the bus while being screamed at. People were being surrounded for being too slow. We did push ups and shit for like 20 minutes, split up into platoons, then did the first 100. This was 2021. Just because the army claims it isn’t happening doesn’t mean that’s actually the case. Tha being said, I don’t really feel like the shark attack added significant value to training. It does create stress, but not to the degree of combat, which is what’s it’s supposed to do. Also, there’s other ways to create stress without it
It's a generational shift. However, I have noticed that there is a lot more selfishness in this new generation coming in. Gone are the days of service just for services sake. I'm not saying you shouldn't take what you can get from the military, but you should follow that with a heart of service as repayment. I don't see that heart of service anymore
I went through Basic in 1985. We were out there for hours with Drill’s screaming at us, making us do exercises, etc. We never held up clothes. Afterwards, we went into our open bay barracks that were built in 1926. Sounds like you got the “kindler gentler” little baby version.
Suicide after retiring? Lol, jokes aside who knows. The real army is the 75th Ranger Regiment
What was it like being a batt boy?
Never went, prob on the next contract (doubt)
I did this for my basic 2023
“ “
Standards and discipline. Duh.
It’s really brigade dependent how hard they go. Each one gets a lot room to operate within tradco 350-6. And I know at Jackson CG Kelly really doesn’t care correct training unless it hazing type of stuff. At 4-39 we went hard on the kids during pickup and this was 22-23. We even scuff up the asvab kids at 2-39 when I worked there
A shark attack is any time more than 3 drills start smoking a private, they smell blood in the water and jump. Last I checked that didn't stop, what are you even complaining about?
I don't know, but the DS have less BS to do.
Learning how to not get flustered during times of stress. Being able to listen and respond to orders under duress. Learning to use your side eyes to see what is going on without the drills focusing on you. Learning how not to eye up the gorgeous female drill as she and her Battle tear into the troop who stared her down. What are they missing? Good times, good times. Class of 2009 Fort Knox.
"gorgeous female drill " I have never seen a female drill sergeant or a former female drill sergeant I felt was anything good to look at.
One people need learn to operate under pressure 2 its sets the tone for the DS and power balance That’s all I got
Not much, “the first 72” is a 3-day shark attack lmao. Comes right after the first 100 yards. I wasn’t there when they first started doing it under SMA Grinston, but when I did mine, it was actually a good way to start.
We had the first 72(hrs) which was just pure fuckfuck games. I mean you can't win at bct but durning the first 72 shit was wild. 1st night after making the walls sweat and shower drills we had to recite the soliders creed at the modified position of attention on our beds lmao. We were so terrified to ask no one used bedding and just slept on the mattresses.
Looking back on it 6 years later the shark attack was so corny but you have no idea at the time lol
Wait that's all the shark attack was??? I went through basic in 2023 and they literally did all of that too, just right after we did the first 100 yards
Went in 2014, our shark attack had us running to the drill pad carrying all of our shit. We had to hold all our crap up while the drills yelled at us and everything. If you dropped your bag, started crying or fucked up in someway you were fucked and they would swarm you and get in your face and let you have it. This went on for a few minutes. After that, they did their creed while we were still holding our shit then they made us dump it all out while they checked for contraband. It was a pain in the ass because you ended up mixing your shit with the people next to you. I ended up losing a set of ACUs. We had to hurry up repack everything and then we got a 30 second phone call home. Then it was hurry the fuck up into your bay and put your shit away and that was it. It wasn't bad, it was just some shock and awe to break people in. I didn't take anything said to me personally and I knew what I was getting into. I don't think the shark attack was a bad thing but I also don't think any less of soldiers that didn't go through it.
From my knowledge, it was for draftees anyway
Fuck *me.* Be 1989. Ft. Knox. Get off the bus at oh-dark-fuckme and file in through the Amnesty room into the same cavernous classroom y'all saw in *Stripes* like it was funny, down to the unit crests on the gattdamn wall. Dump all your shit into the big gattdamn box and wait until the reception cadre inspect all your airplane-detonated-shaving-cream-covered shit. Then, and only then, might you be released to more cadre drills screaming incomprehensibly at you until you manage to figure out they want you to form a line with the rest of the equally discombobulated recruits in the springtime night, sweating with equal parts humidity and fear. Drag your tired ass at three minutes to dawn to the World-War-Two-era movie star barracks and lawndart yourself into the rack for all of eight luscious seconds of blissful unconsciousness before your locker gets fuckin' rekt and your rack gets tossed for giggles and examples' sake, along with every-fuckin-body else's. And oh yeah, fall out and fall in for haircuts and the rest of the reception shenanigans like ten seconds ago, Pri, you're already gattdamn late! Thirty five fuckin' years ago, and I can *still* fuckin' remember that shit like it's happening now.
Damn. My shark attack had smoke grenades and 240s shooting blanks. Literally went from 0-100 when we got off the bus. We got smoked in the smoke lul.
I guarantee they still smoke the shit out of new recruits in red phase. But you're right, shark attack really wasn't that bad. Pretty sure most of the guys I went to basic training with had been yelled at, at some point in their life. Most of us had all been in sports, like football, and had hell week. What it really is, is a bunch of old farts clowning on newer generations of soldiers. They were probably doing that way back during the Civil War. "These young fucks don't know what Antietam was like, bunch of cherry fucks". Nothing's changed since then in that regards.
Shark Attack? First day from Reception Ft.Sill... we had a Chinese Fire Drill at 3am...after bunking down at about 0130. Yeah we had those during Basic at least 4 times. Chinese Fire Drill... You take everything out of the barracks and set it up outside like inside. We ate breakfast on the first one at 10am.
Maybe my basic was different maybe it wasn't but we did the first 100 yards and then after that they just did that same shit in the bays. It didn't really do anything outside of what you'd expect.
The shark attack crap was a joke in 2010 as well. It was just a tactic. Tactics change, and people need to get over it and move on.
I wouldn't say that the shark attack was any worse than what my mom would do to me if she caught me slacking off on my homework. The stress came later but it sure as hell wasn't because of an hour of screaming and yelling that you barely remembered 3 weeks into the cycle.
I worked in BCT during the transition and trainees are just soft in general. Most come from a sedentary lifestyle and are shocked by simple things like running and pushups. Mentally, there is very little resiliency. Basic helps but you have to put people in challenging situations for a long time to change them. The presence or lack of the shark attack didn't change much.
It was an enjoyable experience with some thrills. It builds character. If anything, it definitely made the ones who can't handle a little pressure stand out and be weeded out from the start. It's easier to save the American tax payers thousands of dollars than letting people slip through the cracks, although even then some did.
Worst Part of IET is reception. Getting yelled at and smoked after getting off the bus for 2 hours(or however long it was) was nothing compared to the insane boredom of 30th AG.
I wouldn't call soldiers soft because they didn't do the shark attack. I would say that there is a benefit of fear immediately from getting off the bus. Basic training has started. You are starting the process of becoming a member of the United States Military, the most powerful nation in the world. You are no longer a citizen bystander and a component of that force, no matter your MOS or if you're active duty, NG or reserve. It's a power to be feared and not taken lightly. But I like metaphors though so I may be biased. I also just watched Band of Brothers recently so I got the Army motivation now.
nothing. it was what, an hour on the day before day 1 of BCT? soldiers aren't made in that one hour. if they were, then we could just do away with the ten weeks that follow.
Shark Attack? We called it Hell Day. They get everyone off the bus from both the front and back., yelling and screaming at what shitbags we were. We Formed up in the quad, then smoked for some period while the Drills checked out what they have to work with. Then after dumping our bags, inspected getting contraband removed, we put our duffles on our shoulder and ran around the starship in Sandhill. Then we ran up to the barracks still with the duffles on our backs. The drills turned off the fans and they turned the showers on full hot. Then we ran around the barracks through the latrine enjoying the steam bath. This was in June at Mother Benning. While running the barracks, the drills trashed everything. Then after a guy finally passed out, the medics checked him out and taken him down to sick call, They stopped us. We were told how to put our shit up, cleaned up the barracks, then back down to formation for more smoking. Which lasted till chow. First morning was PT at 0400.
I just remember in 2019, doing the “trail of tears” carrying all our shit to our BN footprint, and seeing this female recruit struggling with her bags crying about how she was going to quit. Having read the soldiers creed a million times out of the blue book half awake at vessy hall, me and another guy tried to help. Before I could even process what happened, Senior Drill comes up, spartan kicks the duffel bag out of our hands and tells us “CHIVALRY IS FUCKING DEAD, GET THE FUCK DOWN THE ROAD.” The female soldier would be the first person I ever saw run a 30 minute 2 mile, she never showered, and they made sure that she was there long after we graduated because all she ever did was quit on herself.
Nothing. It provided nothing of significance to the overall process. They are missing out on seeing middle-aged people yell and scream like idiots. Which isn't scary of stress inducing, it's embarrassing for our organization.
Military training changes. Does anyone complain that dril sgt are no longer punch troops?
I don’t think it’s the shark attack in particular. I think it’s the removal of high school degree or GED as an enlistment criteria and the ACFT standards that are passable by people who just rolled off the couch. When you take people who are near illiterate, are in terrible shape and have never worked for anything in their life and then push them through basic and AIT no matter what standards they meet or don’t.
"these new privates are soft. Anthony Wayne ruined training. Legionville is bullshit. These kids would have never made it in the Continental Line. We had real *discipline*"
The worm pit at Ranger school kind of sucked though. Shouldn’t have gone in smoking a pack and a half of Marlboro Lights a day though…
I went through basic training in 1979 everyday was what you call a “shark attack”. But our shark attack was for 8 weeks straight from the minute arriving at ft Jackson to the day I left
My biggest gripe is hearing soldiers my generation and older constantly complain about the “New” generation having softer training. Stuff like stress cards. I’ve literally never heard of them outside of boomer memes and old farts complaining. Not a single new Pvt has ever said they existed, but because facebook meme page says it does, the old dudes believe it.
What I love about Basic Training - love figuring out that there exists a society within a society where you can shout "Cum Receptacle" at the top of your lungs, and walk around in broad daylight with your testicles sticking out of your pants. And where Alcoholism is openly promoted and sobriety frowned upon. And Loyalty above integrity.
How about the haphazard Medical and background checks - like with that of an out-of-control, malfunctioning conveyor belt that is MEPS. Who cares about the "shark attack". Do these guys even have experience as a Physical Trainer? The Shark Attack occurred at recruitment.
There's a lot of new soldiers in my unit who have zero respect for authority. They don't listen and are not afraid of talking back. I witnessed a PV2 talk back to a SFC like it was no big deal. I feel as if the "scare tactics" really helped support the Army good order and discipline standards. In my opinion, the change in soldiers behavior was very evident after the implementation of the new standards at BCT. it's creating an undisciplined and unmotivated fighting force. Not to mention they are practically giving away 10's of thousands of dollars to teenagers when it would be cheaper to give that money to those already in and retain good knowledge.
Did they remove the “give up” bell?
It's the very first bit of training on how to deal with stress. Now btc guys have a stress card they can pull out and I think that's bullshit. Combat isn't gonna care if your stressed.
>I still see comments online Stop taking online comments from anonymous randos seriously and live your life, brother.
There is one thing I forgot to say. Like some others have said, the shark attack is needed to weed out those who cannot handle stress. The time to weed those soldiers out is basic training. It’s way too late to be doing that when they go to their unit and then deploy. That could get themselves and other soldiers killed. That’s why shark attack is needed. Now, they can do it in another ways, it doesn’t have to be the exact same thing that we knew of before. But, basic training needs to be able to weed out soldiers who are a liability. If it doesn’t, then it’s not affective. It will also only lead to more casualties later down the line.
Went to basic just over 8 years ago. The day we left reception, it was powering rain. I mean, just buckets from the sky. We march to our barracks and everyone was soaked. The drill were quiet, we were quiet. Just overall shitty. I didn't have a shark attack, but man was that first day rough. Our stuff, that they threw in the back room, was all covered in mold when we went to get it at the end of basic from the rain.
In 2014, my big drill would scream at us in our face. He scream at the kid next to me while spitting and screaming at the same time. His spit kept on landing on my face but I dare not to move or wipe it away.
I went through OSUT in 1987 at Ft. Leonard-wood. We were in reception for 2 weeks. We had this guy with all these Soldier of Fortune and Gun type magazines. He would tell us all how much of a killer he was. Being from Oregon I hung out with this guy named Joe from Oregon . We did pt on our own as we knew the other shoe was going to drop at some point. One day they had us with our duffel bags in grass squares in front these buildings. Cattle cars pulled up, Drill Sergeants got off of them. The Drill Sergeants went around introducing themselves and talking to people. Like the overweight guy eating a candy bar. They then loaded us into the cattle cars. They were polite, no yelling, until the doors on the cattle cars shut. Then they told us what they really thought about us. The cattle cars drove around for a bit then stopped. We had 3 seconds to un-ass their vehicles and 2 seconds were already gone. We ran maybe 100 yards, maybe less, to this concrete area that had 3’x3’ squares it was divided into. We each got assigned a square. The Drill Sergeant in charge would yell for us to show an issued item. This is while holding our duffel bags open with hand and elbow on one arm. You couldn’t find the item fast enough and eventually everyone’s shit got dumped in front of them. Then we had to find issues items and put them in the duffel. While doing this other Drill Sergeants were pouncing on trainees. We then got assigned to a barracks floor and room. We went and put our stuff in locker and fell back out for formation. We were marched to chow hall and fed. We weren’t allowed to even look at soda machines in the chow hall. Some puked in their plate they were so physically and mentally stressed. After chow we were marched back to our company area. The Senior Drill Sergeant told us it was a volunteer Army. It was just going to get harder than what we had just experienced. If we had changed our mind, now was the time to let them know. If you didn’t want to be there, they didn’t want you there. They told those that changed their mind to fall out to the rear. I heard people moving. My Dad was prior Army and a platoon sergeant in the National Guard so I knew better but wouldn’t have left anyway. Those of us still in formation were then ordered to “ about face.” The Senior Drill Sergeant then pointed at those who left the formation and yelled,” These are the men who will desert you in combat.” Of course Uncle Sam owned your ass, you were going nowhere. Those guys got smoked all night. Ah, memories.
IMO, Shark Attacks were not only the first thing after getting off the bus/100 yd run for inventories, but also any time after when several DS got in your crap for being stupid. It reminds the kids that they aren't hot shit and instills the discipline so they aren't ate up when they get to their units.
"This is a profession of leadership, respect, and mentoring." Also: "I like to scream at the new employees and make them urinate."
When through in 2011 and mine was a bit more intense than that, but generally the same outcome. I do think there's something to be said about the shock value though. There were drill sergeants everywhere! Shouting! Megaphones! And holy shit we got the hell smoked out of us. We went to bed exhausted and terrified.
Fear.
From a psychological standpoint the shark attack was an attempt at stress inoculation. By making the first thing recruits experience a stressful event that must be navigated they learn that they have within themselves the intestinal fortitude to overcome that stress and they are ok. Just a thought. There are a million ways to accomplish this. But like my drill sergeant told me; *“People only learn on of two ways, repetition, or serious emotional events, I am here to provide you with both”.*
I went to basic in 2011. The shark attack was brutal and effective because it prepared you mentally for the shitstorm that basic training was going to be back then, and pretexted you for how you should respond throughout basic training to get through it successfully, IMO. It was a long day, we got the dogshit smoked out of us from like, 84 different angles, our 1SG (which you honestly rarely ever see) even told us much later about the counselings they had to give the DS' for all that crap to CTA, etc... It also was far from being the only method of achieving the aforementioned result. What do new trainees miss out on by not having a shark attack? Absolutely nothing, honestly. A drill sergeant (or any leader, really) that knows the difference between abuse and inducing positive stress will get the results they want regardless, if you ask me.
Only day zero? Lucky!
Yes