i agree A LOT with what you mention about Damien. To me, it was always weird how we first fight Ra’s al Ghul, and then we fight the guy who wanted to be Ra’s but didn’t make the cut. Should have been the other way around.
Furthermore, the show was building up the League quite nicely. The whole S1 is about taking down ONE SINGLE member of the League (Malcolm). Then S2 has Sara arriving and being oh so afraid of the League. They barely can survive a single squad. So keep raising that tension over the show, maybe fight a splinter group like Talia’s before fighting Damian and then Ra’s (over time, not one after the other).
But yeah, Ra’s al Ghul should have been way bigger issue than pretty much any of Oliver foes, but specially guys like Diaz. I love him, i really enjoy the villain and his plans and motivations and goals etc etc but i really can’t buy that Oliver dealt with Ra’s easier than Diaz
The League would have been a great final villain for sure. Especially if they had teased them with characters like Nyssa, Sara, Malcolm longer, and made a good build up. So when they finally appear it would have meaning to the characters and intensity.
Might work.
You’re sort of describing the Avengers Saga. Incrementally they fight off progressively tougher enemies, some of whom are related to Thanos and some just to the reality that bigger threats are coming.
Then they finally meet the real enemy, Thanos. (“You know Loki and New York? That was him!”)
when i was reflecting on it, it was weirdly like invincible.
person has to deal with their father/half sister’s father who turns out to have had an evil plan all along and beats them almost to death before fleeing, but with repercussions for the mc (main character) as said parent had been a part of a murderous group that disagreed with their recent actions and came after something the MC cared about (weakest point; earth-thea), in response the group try to get the mc to join their group but are unsuccessful.
definatly alot of leaps and stuff in there, not saying anyone stole ideas or anything, but there is alot more in common than if i trjed to compare either of them to rapunzel or something
That’s an interesting comparison actually and kinda ironic given that the Viltrum Empire are a lot more like Zod’s Kryptonian army. Ra’s and the League could’ve at least been villains for later seasons like Prometheus and Diaz but they jumped the shark in making them villains for S3.
I kinda agree. It definitely would’ve lead to people complaining less about how someone like Diaz could match Oliver in a fight despite being trained by Ra’s. I think they could’ve worked for the much later seasons at least.
Heck, you could’ve had them be the big bad of S6 instead where we finally see what Oliver went through 5 years ago on Lian Yu and 5 years as the Hood/Arrow/GA and now Ra’s is offering him a new chapter in his life as his heir and S6 ends with him leading the organization.
Then for S7, you could’ve had Darhk and H.I.V.E. as the final villain trying to take over the League with Oliver in charge or if not them, maybe Dante from S7 could’ve a former LoA member and Ra’s archenemy instead of Darhk and have him create the Ninth Circle as his own LoA organization. Emiko could’ve been his successor which could’ve paralleled Oliver being Ra’s successor.
Idk I’m just spitballing
That would've been a much better direction for the show imo. Instead of having the league be built up as the premier adversarial organization for 2 seasons just to be dispatched as a threat in season 3 and turned into a relic and then disbanded completely in season 4, they should've continued building it up. The season 1 and 2 buildup was perfect. Struggling against and barely overcoming just one member in season 1, and struggling against a squad of them at a time in season 2 was perfect to show just what kind of threat they posed. But then nerfing them to the point where a barely trained laurel and Diggle, who's military training shouldn't have been comparable to league hand to hand combat training, could fight multiple members themselves the very next season just so they could quickly resolve that plot. It made no sense. They could have kept building them up as a potential threat, and like others said, have various splinters of former members like Darkh and Talia be the villains just to show what a fraction of the capabilities of the league could do to Star(ling?) City. Having people like Brick, Samson, Church, and Diaz even be able to land hits on Oliver after he was able to kill Ras was just nonsensical. The same man who killed the greatest warrior that ever lived in single combat and made Malcolm Merlyn, who was also Ras at the time and is also a highly skilled fighter in his own right who's soundly beaten Oliver before, look like a joke is losing fistfights to common criminals? I don't buy it. Have his showdown with Ras come later, and it makes much more sense.
I really enjoyed Season 3, what I didn’t enjoy was how The League really fell off in Season 4. I would have saved that episode plotline regarding the Lotus and Merlyn vs. Nyssa for another time, and if not, I would have at least showed Merlyn struggling to maintain control of The League (so to form two factions; one royalist/loyalist side who supports Nyssa, the other full of Merlyn/ex-Tempest supporters he’s filled The League with).
Or I would have at least had Merlyn throw The League behind Oliver to help defeat H.I.V.E. until there’s basically a war between the former would-be Ra’s, as in Darhk, and the successor of Ra’s, Merlyn. Follow the war until Darhk is defeated, then Merlyn betrays Oliver some other way instead of the whole Lotus thing and the Nyssa duel and Merlyn feeling betrayed with Oliver’s substitution.
There’s just no way to fail to utilize The League after Season 3 is over, but thanks to what they did with Merlyn teaming up with Darhk, they very occasionally did that. The League and H.I.V.E. shouldn’t even *like* each other. Make them exist on a treaty that is barely holding together. Give us insane levels of lore as to how this fits in the Arrowverse. Because the origin story of H.I.V.E. is literally Darhk stealing water from the Lazarus Pit and running off. When Merlyn said this one line in S4EP09 “Dark Waters,” and the entire team was kidnapped, he mentioned he “could not afford to pit The League against H.I.V.E.,” and I’m like, okay, show that! Show the infighting or the history between the groups that makes it impossible for Merlyn to take on Darhk to rescue his daughter! We get some of it in throwaway lines, but maybe actually show Merlyn struggling to control his supporters and Darhk treating Thea differently because she’s the daughter of the new Ra’s. Do this by either putting her in more danger or by orchestrating a different trade with Merlyn (though that time Merlyn subbed as The Arrow was kind of cool, they could have easily had Roy come back and do that for that episode). I also wanted to see occasional raids happen between the groups to fight over resources like ancient weapons like the Staff of Horus. That crossover “Legends of Today/Legends of Yesterday” in which The League shows up in Oliver’s lair for no reason in Season 4 was a nice way to include The League. I liked that Malcolm had all this exposition about Vandal Savage but if his sources were revealed as something other than League oral history, this could have been really interesting.
I just wanted more conflict and lore in Season 4 than a vague line about The League not being able to take H.I.V.E., and I was disappointed with the Lotus thing and the Merlyn vs. Nyssa situation, and the much later “oopsies, Damian’s gonna nuke everybody, gotta team up with him” hasty and rushed decision from Malcolm. The best villain scenes in Season 4 and some of the best scenes in Legends were Darhk roasting Merlyn (and Merlyn roasting Darhk), and they should have fought for real at least once. I wanted a huge war between The League and H.I.V.E., which could have been started if Merlyn decided to raid H.I.V.E. after Nyssa destroyed the Lazarus Pit in early S4.
I agree a LOT. In my opinion, they didn't handle pretty well the league, in certain moments. Thinking especially for how some members are portrayed in an amazing way, such as Malcolm Merlyn, and how he was so powerfull, just to remind us the tension that was created in S2, with a little squad of common warriors. But in the end, things didn't went exacly how we thought...
i agree A LOT with what you mention about Damien. To me, it was always weird how we first fight Ra’s al Ghul, and then we fight the guy who wanted to be Ra’s but didn’t make the cut. Should have been the other way around. Furthermore, the show was building up the League quite nicely. The whole S1 is about taking down ONE SINGLE member of the League (Malcolm). Then S2 has Sara arriving and being oh so afraid of the League. They barely can survive a single squad. So keep raising that tension over the show, maybe fight a splinter group like Talia’s before fighting Damian and then Ra’s (over time, not one after the other). But yeah, Ra’s al Ghul should have been way bigger issue than pretty much any of Oliver foes, but specially guys like Diaz. I love him, i really enjoy the villain and his plans and motivations and goals etc etc but i really can’t buy that Oliver dealt with Ra’s easier than Diaz
The League would have been a great final villain for sure. Especially if they had teased them with characters like Nyssa, Sara, Malcolm longer, and made a good build up. So when they finally appear it would have meaning to the characters and intensity.
Tbh I kinda was thinking of something similar when watching s3 too
ikr
Might work. You’re sort of describing the Avengers Saga. Incrementally they fight off progressively tougher enemies, some of whom are related to Thanos and some just to the reality that bigger threats are coming. Then they finally meet the real enemy, Thanos. (“You know Loki and New York? That was him!”)
when i was reflecting on it, it was weirdly like invincible. person has to deal with their father/half sister’s father who turns out to have had an evil plan all along and beats them almost to death before fleeing, but with repercussions for the mc (main character) as said parent had been a part of a murderous group that disagreed with their recent actions and came after something the MC cared about (weakest point; earth-thea), in response the group try to get the mc to join their group but are unsuccessful. definatly alot of leaps and stuff in there, not saying anyone stole ideas or anything, but there is alot more in common than if i trjed to compare either of them to rapunzel or something
That’s an interesting comparison actually and kinda ironic given that the Viltrum Empire are a lot more like Zod’s Kryptonian army. Ra’s and the League could’ve at least been villains for later seasons like Prometheus and Diaz but they jumped the shark in making them villains for S3.
I kinda agree. It definitely would’ve lead to people complaining less about how someone like Diaz could match Oliver in a fight despite being trained by Ra’s. I think they could’ve worked for the much later seasons at least. Heck, you could’ve had them be the big bad of S6 instead where we finally see what Oliver went through 5 years ago on Lian Yu and 5 years as the Hood/Arrow/GA and now Ra’s is offering him a new chapter in his life as his heir and S6 ends with him leading the organization. Then for S7, you could’ve had Darhk and H.I.V.E. as the final villain trying to take over the League with Oliver in charge or if not them, maybe Dante from S7 could’ve a former LoA member and Ra’s archenemy instead of Darhk and have him create the Ninth Circle as his own LoA organization. Emiko could’ve been his successor which could’ve paralleled Oliver being Ra’s successor. Idk I’m just spitballing
That would've been a much better direction for the show imo. Instead of having the league be built up as the premier adversarial organization for 2 seasons just to be dispatched as a threat in season 3 and turned into a relic and then disbanded completely in season 4, they should've continued building it up. The season 1 and 2 buildup was perfect. Struggling against and barely overcoming just one member in season 1, and struggling against a squad of them at a time in season 2 was perfect to show just what kind of threat they posed. But then nerfing them to the point where a barely trained laurel and Diggle, who's military training shouldn't have been comparable to league hand to hand combat training, could fight multiple members themselves the very next season just so they could quickly resolve that plot. It made no sense. They could have kept building them up as a potential threat, and like others said, have various splinters of former members like Darkh and Talia be the villains just to show what a fraction of the capabilities of the league could do to Star(ling?) City. Having people like Brick, Samson, Church, and Diaz even be able to land hits on Oliver after he was able to kill Ras was just nonsensical. The same man who killed the greatest warrior that ever lived in single combat and made Malcolm Merlyn, who was also Ras at the time and is also a highly skilled fighter in his own right who's soundly beaten Oliver before, look like a joke is losing fistfights to common criminals? I don't buy it. Have his showdown with Ras come later, and it makes much more sense.
[удалено]
(:
I really enjoyed Season 3, what I didn’t enjoy was how The League really fell off in Season 4. I would have saved that episode plotline regarding the Lotus and Merlyn vs. Nyssa for another time, and if not, I would have at least showed Merlyn struggling to maintain control of The League (so to form two factions; one royalist/loyalist side who supports Nyssa, the other full of Merlyn/ex-Tempest supporters he’s filled The League with). Or I would have at least had Merlyn throw The League behind Oliver to help defeat H.I.V.E. until there’s basically a war between the former would-be Ra’s, as in Darhk, and the successor of Ra’s, Merlyn. Follow the war until Darhk is defeated, then Merlyn betrays Oliver some other way instead of the whole Lotus thing and the Nyssa duel and Merlyn feeling betrayed with Oliver’s substitution. There’s just no way to fail to utilize The League after Season 3 is over, but thanks to what they did with Merlyn teaming up with Darhk, they very occasionally did that. The League and H.I.V.E. shouldn’t even *like* each other. Make them exist on a treaty that is barely holding together. Give us insane levels of lore as to how this fits in the Arrowverse. Because the origin story of H.I.V.E. is literally Darhk stealing water from the Lazarus Pit and running off. When Merlyn said this one line in S4EP09 “Dark Waters,” and the entire team was kidnapped, he mentioned he “could not afford to pit The League against H.I.V.E.,” and I’m like, okay, show that! Show the infighting or the history between the groups that makes it impossible for Merlyn to take on Darhk to rescue his daughter! We get some of it in throwaway lines, but maybe actually show Merlyn struggling to control his supporters and Darhk treating Thea differently because she’s the daughter of the new Ra’s. Do this by either putting her in more danger or by orchestrating a different trade with Merlyn (though that time Merlyn subbed as The Arrow was kind of cool, they could have easily had Roy come back and do that for that episode). I also wanted to see occasional raids happen between the groups to fight over resources like ancient weapons like the Staff of Horus. That crossover “Legends of Today/Legends of Yesterday” in which The League shows up in Oliver’s lair for no reason in Season 4 was a nice way to include The League. I liked that Malcolm had all this exposition about Vandal Savage but if his sources were revealed as something other than League oral history, this could have been really interesting. I just wanted more conflict and lore in Season 4 than a vague line about The League not being able to take H.I.V.E., and I was disappointed with the Lotus thing and the Merlyn vs. Nyssa situation, and the much later “oopsies, Damian’s gonna nuke everybody, gotta team up with him” hasty and rushed decision from Malcolm. The best villain scenes in Season 4 and some of the best scenes in Legends were Darhk roasting Merlyn (and Merlyn roasting Darhk), and they should have fought for real at least once. I wanted a huge war between The League and H.I.V.E., which could have been started if Merlyn decided to raid H.I.V.E. after Nyssa destroyed the Lazarus Pit in early S4.
I agree a LOT. In my opinion, they didn't handle pretty well the league, in certain moments. Thinking especially for how some members are portrayed in an amazing way, such as Malcolm Merlyn, and how he was so powerfull, just to remind us the tension that was created in S2, with a little squad of common warriors. But in the end, things didn't went exacly how we thought...