I think something to think about in the short term is finding out if you have any neighbours or people whose kids go to the same daycare as you who would be willing/able to walk with you. This might go a long way to making you feel safer and for making you look less vulnerable.
I am so sorry this is happening to you. It’s not right.
You could also look for neighbours who are out walking their dogs around that time. If you live in a condo, maybe put up a note on the notice board and say you’re looking for a walking buddy. You never know, there might be more people in this same situation.
Wishing you the best!
I hope it works out! I’m a parent of a young child too and I prefer living in the city as opposed to the suburbs for all the reasons you stated, but I get that sense of vulnerability too.
I’m a white woman and haven’t had the same level of scary experiences, so I do not think you’re exaggerating or anything - I know from hearing various friends’ stories they’ve had bad experiences in public places I never have, and it’s very probable it’s my whiteness protecting me.
Don’t let the comments here discounting your experience make you doubt yourself, is what I’m saying, I guess.
I don’t mean to assume it’s overtly racial. I just feel like it might make me more eye catching cos I don’t look like other people.
Thanks for all your support❤️ Take care.
As much as it’s impossible to say for sure, you’re probably right. I’m a woman and often in that area and haven’t had that experience but I’m white.
I’m sorry that’s happened, you should be able to safely walk your child to their daycare without being yelled at.
I worked at Y&B for a dozen years, I was regularly harrassed for walking while white and being a woman. The common denominator is being a woman. Women are easy targets because we are less likely to escalate, get physical and will slink away out of fear.
To add to this, I think if you ask any kind looking stranger to escort you past them most people would be happy to help. Torontonians can look scary when they’re on a mission to get to wherever they’re going but take pride in being asked for help.
Finally, someone mentions a practical solution that may actually be doable. There is safety in numbers and in community. Best answer so far that takes this woman seriously without calling for harsher punishments for mentally unstable people.
Depending on where you’re headed, Bloor/Church to Bloor/Bay are connected underground. Might be a good option as it’s a safer with the office workers crowd. The only issue is that you’ll have to go up and down stairs to access the underground (not as feasible with a stroller).
I live in the area and you see the same in the underground, it's actually scarier because there's a lot less people around, but the security guards from the buildings usually make them leave fast
I considered this but I actually feel like it’s safer to be above ground? I also considered taking quieter routes but part of me feels it would be more dangerous to be on a quiet road if someone comes at me. And yeah impossible with a stroller
The reality though is these guys stick to the main streets mainly, as they are often pan handling. Quieter side streets or the PATH are almost certainly less likely to lead to confrontation. Also, not sure what you do in the moment but I (as a mom of two Yonge children who just recently moved away from the downtown core and frequently dealt with this issue in Dundas) take the approach of looking right past them and briskly passing them by with a wide berth and no eye contact and no acknowledgment. They lose interest quickly when ignored.
I do this and it hasn’t seemed to work. I acknowledge however that this doesn’t happen daily, but since it has happened several times I am extremely worried.
Big big no to going in the underground area especially with a child. Bloor Yonge is a very core area that is a major intersection of two lines that ppl travel from all over the city. It used to be safe and fun to take children but it is no longer. To be perfectly honest, I would move. There are plenty of other areas in the city that have a bigger sense of community, more children and probably less expensive and less central in terms of major transit
The area from College to Bloor on Yonge is intermittently fucked and is worst in the early mornings. I have sympathy for people struggling but I do wish there were more safety measures for people are just trying to get through the day.
This might not be an option, but I would recommend looking for round about ways to reach your destination on quieter streets (not deserted) - eg going up a block to walk through Yorkville to avoid Bloor, or walking on Bay instead of Yonge. Of course it depends on where you live in relation to your daycare, but maybe there’s another route that avoids the “hot spots” so to speak. I find these types of people tend to be found in the same areas repeatedly.
Sorry this happened to you. It’s not unique to Toronto, but it’s certainly an unfortunate situation to deal with in any city. I’d say it’s new but it has been like this for at least the 12 years I’ve been living/workingl in the core.
I live in the Bloor-Yonge area and a female SEA minority. I experienced this same crappy thing once from an obviously unwell man. And yes, I had my baby in a stroller too.
Sorry that you had to experience this too. Solidarity.
I'm so angry after reading this post. At least once a week there will be an unstable man verbally assaulting me at this point. It's enough to make me, a 110 kg man feel uneasy let alone women. I'm so sorry for this, in these cases you gotta look out ahead of time and just change direction completely. It's a gamble as to whether they will have a breakdown once you get close to them. This city is so frustrating sometimes, you've got beautiful areas like Harbour Front and then you've got areas like anything east and north of Yonge/Dundas. My final advice is learn the patterns of these guys and just try to avoid their preferred spots.
Seeing insane people on the TTC is now the norm sadly. Back in the day the driver would kick certain people off due to the need to buy tickets. Now it’s a free for all and I was also verbally harassed recently while on the TTC. Shit is wild these days.
They've stopped doing this likely because of 2 reasons:
1) to not escalate the issue with the mentally ill person, running the risk of them getting harmed, or other passengers
2) possibly a union thing that's in their clause about emergency/safety measures they have to follow when dealing with mentally ill passengers
It's honestly the same everywhere, though. I was harassed just outside of Forest Hill, on my way to TTC. I'm a woman, and I told him repeatedly that I don't talk to strangers, but he would not leave me alone. People were all around me and no one stepped in (not that I expected anyone to, but it's easy to just assume that everything is fine). And it's difficult to know what to do and how to react. Should you tell them to back off, or should you not engage and completely ignore? Either reaction can cause the person to react in an undesirable way - they're totally unpredictable.
Unfortunately, this is all too common across the city. I saw someone post that Uber has a walking partner feature, which could be something worth looking into (if you could maybe select who, I don't know...). But that's an additional cost...
I'm not sure if there's any "fixing" this, tbh. It's a sad state.
Thanks.. I’ve considered and Bay is def quieter, but I mentioned elsewhere that I’m concerned that if it’s TOO quiet then if something happens, no one else will be around to help.
I feel that police presence will alleviate this concern.
Take Bay. It’s still busy especially around rush hour but mostly with professionals going to/from work or students with school. I’m a 6ft tall man who gets approached often but not often in a threatening manner, and I avoid Yonge whenever possible (I live between Yonge and Bay.
Even before I lived in the neighbourhood like 10 years ago Bay has always been much better to walk along. The only time I’m walking on Yonge is to go somewhere on Yonge and even then I’ll walk on Bay or the side-streets and paths then turn onto Yonge. I’m not as concerned about my personal safety but Yonge is always unpleasant to walk along
A good rule of thumb is to change direction as soon as you see them at least a block away. Do not walk directly towards or near them. This is inviting trouble. The police may think this is small potatoes, but small potatoes can become very big potatoes if you are not vigilant. If you see them in your immediate line of sight, take evasive measures!
I agree with you and this is good advice but It’s so sad and wild she needs to be maneuvering around fucking violent unstable wing nuts like this when she’s just trying to her her toddler to daycare
Sadly, no one cares until you actually die. Even then, do they really care? There is more “understanding” for the violent perpetrator than a mother and an innocent baby.
In this case, the street is at least 10-15 metres wide. I intentionally kept right at the edge of the sidewalk. He came RUNNING up to me. No reason at all- other people were walking past him and he didn’t care
The fact that these street smart tactics work for other people but not me makes me think it’s 100% related to how I look or that I have a baby.
Decriminalization of prohibited weapons like bear spray would have to be done by the federal government and that 's not happening under this government or a prospective conservative government. My experience with people using bear spray for self defence is that the person defending themselves cross contaminates themselves along with innocent bystanders.
This is one of my concerns, especially with a daughter. That I would use it poorly and harm others. But someone suggested carrying a siren or Axe spray, and I think that seems feasible and less illegal
Most of these, if not all, will simply escalate the situation. Things like mace and spray will simply antagonize someone that's already deranged and it won't really stop them in the moment. Their adrenaline will shoot through the roof and are more likely to become physical. Sirens, albeit less "intrusive" as a spray in the face, can also trigger a fight response, especially in someone that's already not right in the head.
I strongly recommend these are not requested. It'll only make matters worse and more dangerous for the victims unfortunately.
I agree- it’s moreso in a total emergency. Lets be honest, I am not likely to have the presence of mind to do any of this. It’s just a pretence that I have some power, I guess. Because my anxiety is through the roof. I didn’t do any work all day and just kept reliving scenarios that could happen to my daughter if this onslaught continues.
This is partially why I want police presence- I don’t expect them to actually do anything but their visual presence (of police/security/etc) is often enough to deter this behaviour and to alleviate anxiety for me as a woman alone. Sometimes it escalates it (some people get angry at cops), but then it’s on the cop to de-escalate.
I work in healthcare and am familiar in de-escalation. But de-escalation in a controlled environment (a hospital), where you can also call security if someone becomes verbally aggressive, is very different from in public with your child.
Can you start looking at other areas of the city? That isn’t the best area to raise kids (not the worst but there are always going to be problems there).
Yes, I would also recommend making plans to move elsewhere if it is feasible. I know it isn't a "fair" response, as you've done nothing wrong and should not be required to change your life. However, this neighborhood is in crisis. I work in the area and I have also frequently been harassed, and have had racial slurs and foul language directed at me. Even when walking with a female co-worker there are incidents. This has happened despite no engagement, and no eye contact from me.
I recall a few months ago, an innocent passerby was stabbed in the back with a needle, and just last week I heard there was a man with an axe (?!) near Wellesley stn. The problems with addiction and housing instability are not being addressed, and the situation is only getting worse. The constant fear and harassment is so stressful. I am relieved to leave the area at the end of the day. I plan to seek employment in another location.
> “100% something to do with myself or the fact that I have a baby”. (Paraphrased cuz I lost the comment)
To me, it seems like people want someone to blame for their misfortune. (Of course the issue is far more complex than that, but that is to give an answer to the question of why YOU.) You’re a visible minority and to a lot of deluded people, that means you’re not “from here”. Not being “from here” is an easy way to blame something not in the original equation for misfortune in your own life. (I hope that made sense)
Instead of waiting for bear spray and the like to be legalized, something you might want to consider carrying with you is hairspray. Being a woman who wears a scarf it might not come to mind as much, but gosh does it absolutely burn to get that stuff in your eyes. Obviously wouldn’t have the same effect as bear spray, but it would definitely stun someone enough for them to stop attacking you. I’m sorry that these are words we’re having to use in a conversation that involves your daughter.
Otherwise for safety tools, a personal alarm is a great choice as I saw another redditor suggest. The majority of people are good people who would want to help if something were happening, so just having that ability to immediately draw attention to what’s happening to you means the sooner you’re gonna get some help.
Covenant House was mentioned and I also think that’s a safe place to look into.
Thanks so much! I am definitely getting a siren or something. And yeah you’re right, I never use hairspray loool so maybe this is a good chance to use up my bottle.
It’s hard to do that downtown when there’s dozens of them on each side of the street. Most often you just have to look straight ahead, avoid eye contact, and hope for the best. The sad new reality of this city.
This is a big problem for me. On smaller roads I have had to take my stroller and walk on the road itself because people are on both sides. Imagine if a car accidentally hit me! It wouldn’t even be their fault.
But you can’t even do that on major roads.
I sympathize, but just want to say after living in Toronto for 14 years I just moved away last month. I also lived by Bloor and Yonge, and in the past three years it has gotten much worse there. More notably, I have seen people projectile vomiting on the subway, openly smoking crack pipes by the old Starbucks that closed, and finally there was someone high on drugs aggressively yelling at everyone until one person pulled a knife and threatened to stab the guy if he didn't back off.
Honestly, if I were you I would look at moving away from that intersection. Between Bathurst and Ossington it is a really nice community.
But Bloor Yonge itself is only going to get worse.
Maybe try writing to the businesses there? I'm sure Lululemon who's opening a store won't feel too happy if customers feel unsafe outside their store. Try getting these large businesses to help apply pressure to help fix the issue.
I used to live near Bloor/Yonge until I was physically assaulted walking home from work one day. After that I was terrified to do anything outside, couldn't even go grocery shopping by myself.
I moved 3 years ago to a more residential part of Toronto and I'm so glad I feel safe again.
I know not everyone is able to move, but I just don't see how the situation is going to get better - at least I have no power to do anything about it. So I did the only thing I could to be safe and went somewhere else 🤷
Agreed! The last normal time I remember in that area was the rush/craze before Covid lockdowns. Then silence for months- years. Coming back things have never looked the same
I am so sorry that this is happening to you. To anyone.
Walking in pairs is good.
Looking alert is good.
A self defense course would be good too. A shame its needed. We we offered some self defense type things when I started university and there were tips offered that made me feel better prepared.
But really. I wish it could be that you felt safe just as you are.
I feel so old saying this, but in the early 90s at university, we talked of a time that we could walk alone and not worry.
I moved to a new safer area a few years ago that has always been quiet and pristine and beautiful. In the last 3 months there are now 16 different homeless encampments I pass on my walk to the dog park. In the last 2 weeks, 2 set up tents directly in the kids soccer field and the occupants have been seen urinating/defecating around their tents in the park. There's not going to be many safe areas left soon.
I’m going to be real with you - this is the nature of living downtown as a woman. I have lived here for 13 years in various areas and it’s just how she goes.
Yonge and Bloor is like a spawn point for crackheads. Anywhere between Lansdowne to Broadview, and Front to Eglinton, it’ll happen. I’ve had things thrown at me, I’ve had people insult me, scream at me, hit on me, assault me, grope me, follow me for blocks, you name it. It fucking sucks. Now that the weather is warmer, assholes spend more time outside as do the rest of us.
We live in a city that underfunds healthcare and generally doesn’t know what to do with people who have addictions issues or mental health issues.
To your question - advocate and vote for anything that increases healthcare funding because this also tends to include institutionalization, drug rehab, mental health services, etc. Increasing police funding does fuck all because police literally do not care, as you’ve unfortunately found out.
Other things I recommend, which, yes, aren’t *the answer* but are things I’ve found helpful: Improve your cardio so you can run the fuck away - jumping rope is an easy way to do this if you’re uncomfortable going for a run. Working out in general, joining a combat sport, also good. Avoid eye contact as much as possible. Don’t respond to anyone you don’t know. Avoid walking alone when possible, but especially at night. If anyone ever bothers you, cause a scene, LOUDLY.
I’m sorry it’s like this.
I am not saying it not racially motivated. But as a white person I’ve had a junkie on the train yell and scream that I am a “blue eyed devil”. The unstable people are everywhere in the city. I think they just pick the first thing they think will be offensive. In my case it was weird cause they were also of the Caucasian variety.
I’m very sorry to hear of your experience. As a woman of East Asian descent, I echo all of your sentiments about not feeling safe. It was my last straw that led me to get a car, though I live in one of the most convenient areas for public transit. Even transit in the suburbs has gotten bad with harassment and people making me uncomfortable.
Avoid eye contact at all costs. Head down. Be safe. I am a Caucasian female and also experienced this in the downtown area. Once on Christmas morning. Eye contact was usually the trigger.
Being within spitting distance of these people is not advised. You must be ready to move away from them when they move toward you. You need to have your head on a swivel and watch out for them before they have the chance to come close to you in neighborhoods like Yonge and Bloor. Sometimes this involves taking a long detour. Being someone myself who also walks with my two year old around downtown, I have developed a heightened sense of awareness and routes to avoid, places I know have more than your fair share of the wrong type of people. Best you just keep your head up and don't show your daughter you have been rocked by someones mental breakdown that you were present for. Walk away like it is nothing. None of this is fair, or correct or the way things should be. I am sorry this is happened to you.
Can I recommend a book for you called **The Gift of Fear - by Gavin De Becker .** A great book on watching for warning signs of violence.
Thanks for this. Will look into the book
I agree with you but I think why I am so rattled is that i have been doing all of this and it still happened. I know life can’t be 100% safe but it honestly feels like I have no power over my own life, like I’m back to living in Saudi Arabia where I didn’t even walk outside. (In that case, the issue wasn’t drug users though.) it’s extremely depressing to me as a feminist, even, that basically every woman i talk to suggests using Uber, driving, or walking in constant vigilance when it’s not even nighttime. That’s why I want to get involved at a more political/community level. Like, I am a citizen, I should be able to use public goods.
This is exactly what the problem is, though. Nobody should *have* to worry about this shit in our city. The fact that the advice is "just assume anyone and everyone could, out of nowhere, harm you with no warning" means that the system has failed the citizens and *something needs to be done about it*.
This is exactly how we wind up being governed by a strongman who promises to clean the mess up in exchange for broad, sweeping powers to lock people up and/or ship them away. Do I want that? No, of course not -- but we are barreling toward it at a very rapid pace. The next provincial and federal governments, and perhaps municipal as well, are almost guaranteed to be quite right-wing if we keep it up with this "anything goes" mentality surrounding drugs, mental illness and antisocial behaviour.
>Being within spitting distance of these people is not advised
Unless spitting distance is 10m to you, she's not within spitting distance of these people. OP said that people will come at her from 10m away and weave through other people to get to her. I can't imagine how scary that must be, to be so targeted like that.
I also live at Bloor Yonge and have been physically grabbed one night so i feel you, as some others said I’ve just learned to cross the street proactively
If you are renting, will suggest to switch to a safer neighborhood. No one deserves to live life under a constant threat. Not good for your mental and overall wellbeing.
I am very sorry this is happening to you and your daughter. So scary, I’m sorry. I hate that you can’t even feel safe walking down the street. Unfair.
Not that this will make you feel any better but I am just an average (probably below average 😆) middle-aged white lady and I have had the same kind of insane experiences with men on the street shouting at me, spitting on me, following me, etc. It’s totally unacceptable and extra infuriating because I know this never happens to my 6 foot 4 husband.
I'm near that area and I get verbally assaulted every so often. They're on drugs or coming off drugs. Just don't make eye contact and continue walking. Downtown has been like this for the last 35 years.
> Downtown has been like this for the last 35 years.
Yes, it has, but it's become *significantly* worse in the last couple of years. I moved here in 2012, and from that year until 2020, I was accosted once or twice, total (I'm a tall man in my 30s). Over the past few months, I've been yelled at, threatened, and have had things thrown at me several times -- and that's just in 2024. Last year, an obviously-unwell man took a huge haymaker swing at me at Keele station, and didn't miss me by much -- out of nowhere, a sucker punch from behind that I saw coming only because the train was arriving and I looked behind me just as he was trying to clobber me. That kind of shit did NOT happen ten years ago. The TTC guy I told about it basically told me to forget about it and get on my train home.
To be fair Toronto was *much* worse in the late 80s and 90s. There was no Reddit or social media back then to spread the news every time this happened. It's bad now but it was *worse* 35 years ago.
I’m sorry you’re experiencing this. It sounds very scary. Unfortunately, these problems are the manifestations of systemic policy failures. The federal and provincial governments’ unwillingness to invest in affordable housing, accessible mental health and disability supports, meaningful education and employment opportunities, and interventions to separate people from the toxic, unregulated drug supply (eg evidence based addiction treatment, pharmaceutical alternatives to the illegal supply, harm reduction services) are the root causes. To that end, directing more resources to street level enforcement won’t fundamentally change things.
I understand the desire to protect yourself and to punish people who make us feel unsafe - truly, I do (for context, I’m currently seated right at Bloor and Yonge and was just approached by someone who elicited this reaction in me. I gave him a cigarette and he de-escalated, though I realize this is not always an appropriate option.) And, policing individuals is just playing whack a mole. A few orgs who do good advocacy around the aforementioned solutions, that you could get involved with, include:
The Ontario Health Coalition
The Ontario Disability Alliance
The Ontario Harm Reduction Network
The Ontario Coalition Against Poverty
Street level police presence can make people safer. Yes, we need to address the root causes but in the meantime people deserve to not be harassed in the streets. Constant anxiety causes new mental health problems. While we wait for root issues to be solved, we obviously need an immediate solution that keeps people safe. Your response is insensitive at best.
u/Southern-Tap4275 wants us to go the route of Portland and Vancouver . You can look up how well that's going if you'd like - needless to say it's an abject disaster.
I'm all for supports , and there are policy failures at all levels of government you won't get a single argument from me there.
But Moreso we have a societal failure that this is now acceptable behavior .
Support and treatment needs to be non optional, I'm fine with paying whatever it costs to treat people, house them , provide them with food, clothing, therapy .
But providing people with options and safe places to consume these drugs, or worse - providing the drugs - is probably the worst policy failure there is - it's an endless cycle of overdoses and then bringing people back, and almost no one will ever choose treatment if they can get their fix safely and easily - so this problem will just expand, and grow over time ( which it's expanding and growing ).
Saving addicts lives if possible is important, but more important is protecting society from them, however we need to - allowing people to get obliterated on Fentanyl or worse and then roam the streets victimizing people is not a solution.
The solution to social program failures is not more social programs, sometimes you need tough love - and as I said , I'm not suggesting we simply let people die in the streets, but I am suggesting we remove their freedom to choose for themselves because they aren't mentally well enough to do so .
I actually live just off of Vancouver’s downtown eastside. I spent several years homeless there myself as a young person, while disabled and heavily addicted to crack cocaine.
You are correct - it is an abject disaster. The disaster, however, has been caused by the dynamics I’ve mentioned above (all of which are inextricable from the DTES having been built through policy as an open air asylum). You appear to be quite misinformed. I don’t blame you - disinformation has proliferated wildly in recent years, particularly as we move into the next federal election cycle. I would be happy to provide links to the academic articles, policy platforms, or book I’ve written on the subject :)
I lived in Covenant house in Toronto for years myself ( back in the 2000s ) so I'm glad you've also managed to save yourself from the streets, they are vicious and unforgiving.
Lost a good friend during my time there to addiction , and I am genuinely glad you're still on the planet today fellow redditor.
I'm not misinformed , and you're quite frankly delusional if you think you can solve the drug crisis with social programs and money while leaving the freedom of choice in place - most addicts will keep using regardless of the help or supports that are in place.
Blaming addiction on a lack of housing and therapy is a trope , addiction is an extremely complex mental illness with a variety of causes ( genetic predisposition, mental illness, trauma, societal pressures and a host of other reasons )
Drug abuse is usually the start of the problems, not the other way around --- They lose their home, their family, their jobs
You're clearly passionate about the issue which I respect, but you've fallen into the same trap that many do, that assume compassion is always the correct solution. ( It's not )
And surely by your own admission, you can see that the more money we dump into harm reduction sites, narcan and other forms of enabling drug abuse doesn't help - at all --- it just overloads our healthcare system and enables the spread of this crisis .
Go into any emergency room in Vancouver, it's the same as Toronto - 90% of the people there are in the middle of a drug/mental health crisis
I spent three years at covenant house Vancouver myself. I’m glad we’re both still here - truly. Obviously our pathways have diverged. I’ve been to abstinence based addiction tx 5x, eating disorder tx 2x, and involuntarily committed more times than I can count. My experiences in institutions are what prompted me to ultimately get a few grad degrees in medical sociology, and to pursue work in policy: for me and many others, the trauma of not being given choices (or even language to describe our inner worlds outside of biomedical psychiatry) are what drive chaotic and compulsive drug use. Paradoxically, I’ve been abstinent from alcohol and drugs for many years precisely because I opted out of traditional treatment/12 step models of addiction.
Best wishes. I’m open to constructive dialogue, but will likely turn of notifications for this particular thread.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. I’ve lived in the area for about a decade and the decline in the last couple of years is extreme. I’ve tried to change my routes whenever possible - if I’m walking south I’ll walk down Bay to avoid Church or Yonge, I’ll duck into the Hudson Bay building and walk the path through to the Manulife Center to avoid Bloor, I’ll head up to Yorkville to grab coffee, etc. if you ever need a walking buddy, message me.
I walk to the gym every morning near Yonge bloor, not a long term solution but if you wanted a walking buddy the next few weeks let me know, if the timing works out I’d be happy to. 38 y/o married man with a baby girl myself, makes me sick thinking of this happening to my wife with her
I always think about this article arguing that when the street drug of choice switched from heroin to meth, less people died but more people experienced psychosis. I think that could help explain the change in homeless people's behaviour. https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lopez-meth-homeless-20190629-story.html
I honestly considered this was the case because opioid users tend to be nodding off and aren’t agitated. However of course all of this is also linked to psychosis and trauma, so who knows. Also they can get very unpleasant if they are looking for their next fix.
Im so very sorry this is happening to you. TPSJust want to offer a tip...a guy who teaches personal safety told me bear spray may be illegal but Axe spray isn't.
We need to criminalize verbal assault right away. If these clowns thought that it was illegal things would be different. Plus, there is no downside at all
The lowest rung of society hates and yells at everyone. Just walk fast and move on.
Your government wants to give them free drugs instead of fixing the issue. Good thing the feds told them to take that idea and stick it.
Oh and your police force thinks if you're a victim of crime, you should make it easier for criminals so you don't get hurt in the process of criminal shit.
Welcome to Canada.
I've from a racial minority as well (East Asian) and am queer/have a girlfriend. When this happens I walk as fast as I can and duck into the nearest cafe or shop. Most of the time they're just moving in one direction/forward and once you get out of their sight/outside of perception zone they can't see you. Stay safe and take care!
Since you mentioned bear/dog spray: it is absolutely legal to carry dog spray and use it in self defence as long as you don’t carry it with the specific intent of using it for self defence. All you have to do is tell the police that you carry it because you saw an unchained dog or rabid raccoon in your neighborhood, and they will leave you alone. Regarding use, as long as you stick to the above, it is legally considered a weapon of opportunity. You will not be prosecuted for spraying an aggressive homeless man as a minority woman with a stroller.
I am so sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately, it's just the nature of certain areas of Toronto. I wish it wasn't the way it is, but it is. I'm a white, cishet male, born, raised and living in Toronto for 40 years, and I've been called "fa\*\*ot" countless times by different randos on the streets of this city. And these are people of different ethnicities and genders too, not just one type. Been threatened for not having a cigarette, for not having change. Been called "gweilo", "maricon", "whiteboy", "ret\*rd", "b\*tch", "deaf", "stupid", "asshole", "idiot", "slow", the list goes on. It's just city life, unfortunately. So don't take it personally; I learned not to. And yeah, it's really not specific to women and minorities; it can happen to anybody. And although I am not in agreement with you on criminalizing verbal assault, I am in agreement with you on criminalizing violent drug users and decriminalizing instruments of self-defence.
This so so scary. I'm sorry this is happening to you. As much as I'm enraged, I don't know how to help you directly. I'll pray and hope that it doesn't happen again to you or anyone.
My office is in the area and I deal with potentially aggressive and unwell people every time I go to get a coffee . It's gotten a lot sadder around there than it used to be a few years ago. I'm sorry you have been experiencing this. I have not had any issues but it could in part be because I am a large man. It must be scary particularly with your child with you. The city and police won't do much. I rarely even see police around there except for paid duty officers who watch construction.
I used to commute on the TTC with my daughter from when she was 1.5 to 4. Bloor/Yonge was the worst. I hated going through that station, and dreaded it. We took Line 2 in the west end every day, and many things happened on that stretch too, including sitting next to a ranting man playing with a nasty set of pronged brass knuckles while my child slept on me, meaning I could not move fast. I felt very vulnerable. I got off as soon as I could, and I do that freely now - I just leave, and am a little late. I'm sorry it is like this - I see you, and hear you.
Please contact city officials, MP, whoever you can. The streets are crawling with drig addicts and mentally unwell people. City, provincial and Federal policies are failing us. The harm reduction approach to drug addiction does not work and only harms the rest of us.
It's this kind of shit that's going to make me lose my mind and vote Conservative one day. These kinds of people just need to be off the f'ing street. I don't care where they go or what happens to them (within reason, obviously) but I am sick of people feeling they have to cede our streets to druggies and nutcases.
Couldn’t agree more! Make crimes ILLEGAL again, and make the streets safer. I don’t care where they go ask long as children and families are able to walk the streets without fear.
> It's this kind of shit that's going to make me lose my mind and vote Conservative one day.
This has been me. 3x Trudeau voter. As much as I was giddy to be an ABC voter in 2015 and get out Harper, I would trade a lot to go back to 2014 Canada. Crime should be illegal.
Sorry you're experiencing this but a few things:
* This doesn't *just* happen to you.
* You're not *targeted,* these people are off their rocker.
* Continue to contact everyone you can, but temper your expectations. They're almost certainly already aware and, having no travel or residence in the spots affected, sadly don't give a shit. This has been an issue for decades (though on the rise notably since the pandemic especially).
Not really sure how that's supposed to comfort you. The below, on the other hand, needs to be tackled separately.
* decriminalizing using bear spray/dog spray in situations where you fear a risk to your safety
You mention verbal assault but there's reasonably no such thing. Assault and criminality have legal implications that are not being met here. Your legal entitlement as a Canadian who is called a bitch, told to go fuck yourself, or just about anything you, myself, or anyone here has endured is just so: endure ramblings from someone who is episodic. Death threats are handled differently but given the population and frequency of these events taken with about as much seriousness (awful, agreed). Yes, it's terrifying and some people (yes, often women) have been physically harmed -- there's no dancing around that. Physical assault of your own, however, of spraying someone who is a lunatic or otherwise without cause for a physical defense, *is* assault. Defense needs to be proportionate and even then you face an uphill battle for legal defense since the law does not love to side with preemptive fear-based action. Ignore them, move on, try and avoid heavily affected areas or travel in groups is sadly about the only safe wisdom you can actively practice. Unfortunately much of the core is affected by individuals of this precise description so avoidance isn't always possible.
Your experiences have happened to me more times than I can count and I'm a young white male with an athletic build; it's not a racial issue, not a sexual/gendered issue, and not solely an issue of accompaniment/minors. It's an issue with the steady descent into madness we seem to be experiencing from a wide variety of issues too big to discuss in any single post. Being screamed as a Torontonian now feels like the little leagues at this point for anyone who has lived here long enough -- I don't say that as a glib suggestion you 'live with it' more than to just point to how common it really is, terrible as it may be. People have threatened to stab me, I've been hit and spit on, had cigarettes tossed at me, I've had near-misses dodging public masturbation with people ejaculating on the streets, the guy who slept in my building's garbage chute told me he would set my door on fire but decided to opt for breaking bottles, screaming at the top of their lungs, and chain smoking before they too passed out, hand down their pants, in the common hallway (where were police or security you ask? Fuck if I know, I called both). Toronto, like a lot of dense metro areas in Canada, is in dire straights with people in crisis and the rest of us left to have empathy and understand (fuck that, this shit is not normal or safe).
I wish I had a solution for you. Mine was to move out of the core -- my family's safety felt like it relied on it -- but that's not an option everyone has or wants to exercise.
The only reasonable reply here. I feel for OP, I really do - I live a block from Casey House on Jarvis so I know all too well how bad this area has gotten. Fuck, there was a shooting here around the corner last night at 12:30AM.
But you are right - OP isn’t being targeted. These are all, for the most part, empty threats from mentally ill people. If it was the same person doing it to her, then she might have a case but from what I gather, it’s all randoms.
OP - if you can, move out of the area. There are other neighbourhoods downtown that will have what you are looking for and much safer.
I agree with you. All of the same has happened to me. We have small kids and go anywhere with them. Moss park. TTC. Anywhere. I think the difference is familiarity and comfort experiencing the ‘abuse’. This is probably the thing I recognize the most from these comments. Everyone seems to be commenting like they live in a war zone and Toronto is the most dangerous place on earth. It is not. I have female family members who work with unhoused with addiction issues. They don’t experience the same fear. They don’t recommend making eye contact a block away and then trying to run for your life like many comments here are implying. I just go about my day. Say hi. Smile. If they seem unwell I completely ignore eye contact and keep walking. I do the same with my kids. It’s unfortunate but feeling in danger doesn’t usually match up with being in danger.
Exactly. I feel like the majority of people commenting Toronto has become Gotham are transplants from smaller towns or cities that are safer but more conservative. I’ve lived in the city for most of my life and have seen the gradual rise in homelessness and mental health issues. I have also lived in Vancouver for a year and literally worked in East Hastings and we are nowhere near the mess that that city is in.
We SHOULD expect better from this city but we need to face reality - until all levels of government finally decides to give a shit, we all need to be street smarts when navigating the city.
I work in healthcare. I will tell you right now engaging with mentally unwell people as a healthcare worker, with a badge and a team, is very different than doing it by yourself with a baby.
I was previously at Yonge/Carlton. I lost count of how many shelters were in the area and while I absolutely bear no ill will to others struggling it doesn't eliminate the impacts they've had on me.
I didn't include it above but I've seen no less than a dozen people assaulted with a haymaker -- no cause even. One that stands out was some dude running up behind someone I was walking behind (minding their own business, listening to music), the victim got absolutely clocked and the perp just kept running. Another was from someone unwell on the TTC who was screaming at everyone on the subway. Would go up to them, scream HEY FUCK YOU, move onto the next when they were ignored. Did the same to me and I ignored them. The poor bastard beside me got the same but they chose to reply "good morning". That was it. *Good morning.* He was immediately assaulted. *See something? Say something!* and pressing cute yellow bars only goes so far. Again, the perp fled when the doors open immediately and the only option was to support the victims, provide a witness statement and then move on throughout the day waiting for the next shit we're forced to witness or be victimized by.
No, there's no easy solution but whatever we're left with now as human beings forced to live alongside this isn't ideal either. On one hand I do not expect a Minority Report style policing scenario that stops crime in its tracks but people being victimized with no plausible end or accountability for those doing this is a terrifying and bleak reality.
Thanks! I appreciate this and i am so sorry you had to endure so much.. genuinely awful and I’m glad you left.
Maybe it’s not racial - that’s really just my desperate attempt to understand why other people say this doesn’t happen to them.
I understand that moving is the only real solution. My hope is that there are some things we / I can advocate for on a community level. Isn’t that the point of a democracy??
I really would hope to think that it's the point and I still vote accordingly (mental health supports, outreach, addiction services, healthcare) but I'd be lying if I wasn't rapidly turning pessimistic to the situation at hand, insular, and more focused on my personal safety. I know few homeless people are threatening, let alone dangerous, in the manners we experience but it's hard to know until it happens and who wants it to happen to them? My heart goes out to the outreach teams and healthcare in the trenches.
In so far as understanding these crimes? I gave up on trying long ago; maybe it's a good thing we don't understand. I can only have so much compassion about someone's circumstances before I need to worry about my own/family's safety. Toronto, for me, used to be an incredible and fun place but the pandemic's erasure of night life and services left desperation on the streets without much meaningful assistance for vulnerable populations or the residents who live around them. It sort of crushed the experience for me. I still like to visit (the nostalgia in my old haunts just sings to my heart), Toronto in many ways is still my home and I was born and raised there, but it's not a place I feel comfortable in as much as I used to. I lay that solely at the feet of every level of government who has allowed life to become far less livable than it used to be. It is different and only by acknowledging that will government services -- and the lives they impact -- improve.
It’s nothing to do with race. They do this to all women period. Men too no doubt. But women - and teen boys actually, I think because they’re small therefore easier targets even in a psychotic mind - especially.
Sorry but we are not prioritized whatsoever. Supporting initiatives that address drugs and homelessness will help.
That is terrible. More terrible that it seems to be fine as far as politicians are concerned. Didn't the mayor just announce today that the city was changing it's policies to focus more on support, and less on enforcement, with respect to homeless people? Thirty or forty years ago, it was expected that if someone did what this person did to you, the police would respond, and administer him a beating.
Since that time, we have moved away from accepting the police beating people who engage in anti-social behavior. Now, the focus is on people focused policies, which in practice means that people who wander the streets screaming and threatening others, face no consequences. This comes directly at the expense of people like you, who are innocent, and must endure abuse.
My opinion is that we have gone too far in terms of allowing anti-social behavior. We have prioritized the independence of people who are aggressive and anti-social, over the safety and well-being of innocent people. I think it would be reasonable for the police to punish people who engage in anti-social, aggressive behavior. But not everyone feels that way, evidently lots of people feel that the status quo is fine. They propose more progressive solutions, such as more subsidized housing. Unfortunately, these solutions do not work. We spend way more money on social programs than we did forty years ago. But the anti-social behavior keeps getting worse.
Even 10 years ago, the progressive position was believe and support victims, denounce violence and threats against women, and ensure attackers face consequences (well before conviction, or even regardless of whether charges are laid). Now, as evidenced in this thread, the "progressive" position is victim blaming: OP owes her attacker more compassion, is at fault for trying to walk in this area, and does not deserve to walk the streets with being threatened. "Progressives" have gone off their collective rocker.
Different people, different parts of the same general area
Also happened on the TTC - when I was with my daughter - but I don’t use the TTC anymore because of it.
I'm not a racial minority but a friend of mine who is says she wear headphones that are turned off so she can still hear everything but it looks like she's listening to something. A common safety tip I hear is to make yourself look preoccupied. If you're wearing headphones and moving around fast, you look too busy to harass
Can you carry pepper spray?
Also look into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, my kiddo does it and he can take someone day in a couple of moves, it'll help with your self confidence. A lot of the girls in the class are amazing and beat the boys despite being much smaller / lighter.
So sorry this happens to you :( I'd be so shaken.
I sympathize with women and kids because I experience and see this all the time. I'm going to be completely honest, the only way to truly avoid this experience is to move out of the core of the city. I've noticed this in the core of every city I've visited and while some are better than others, it's almost part of the experience of living in the city.
When I personally moved out of the core, I rarely got approached unless I was on the streetcar going into the city. Best of luck OP and stay safe.
> mentally unwell people tend to be nicer to women/kids because they don't view us at threats
No they prey on who they perceive to be weaker people. Mentally ill people bother me far less since I started going to the gym and Martial Arts. And as a brown minority there is going to be more racist incidents along with the homeless people due to the divided country. Are you able to walk with your neighbour, husband, brother, father, etc.?
OP I’m so sorry for what you’ve experienced and I hate that you’re the one who needs to alter your behaviour when you’ve done nothing wrong.
You said Yonge/Bloor…that’s a really chaotic intersection. Bay/Bloor is much less chaotic even though it’s so close. Is it possible for you to either use the underground path to walk from Yonge to Bay Station (I think there’s an elevator that will take you up to Bay St), there’s also stairs up to Bellair St in Yorkville which are both generally more calm.
Most of the unhoused people in that neighborhood stick to themselves and it might be easier. St. Thomas is a very quiet street that you can use to get down to Charles St and go east or west completely avoiding that intersection. If you go west, you’ll find Museum station.
Again, I’m so sorry that you need to adjust but I understand needing to take care of your immediate safety. Hope this helps! xx
Sorry this happened to you.
Write to the city, the more letters the better, with the way things are going, they need a whole “End South Asian racism” campaign (as they have for East Asians https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/community/toronto-for-all/anti-east-asian-racism/).
Edit: This is their email-
[email protected]
Honestly... nobody in this country is going to help you. The police/authorities/government don't care. I was living in a wealthy area of Vancouver (Yaletown) and right on the corner someone got stabbed to death walking to work at 8am in the morning by someone he didn't know. He was a white male and was stabbed by a minority homeless female. In another case, a man was with his wife and 4 year old child getting a coffee at Starbucks at 2pm on a Sunday a block away from our apartment. A guy lit of a joint next to him and the man asked him to not smoke it close to his young daughter. He was stabbed to death in front of his young child and wife while people filmed it. The man who lit the joint and stabbed him was of South Asian (Indian) descent. Horrific stuff. I used to live right where you are in Toronto at Yonge and Bloor/The Annex for many years. It wasn't that bad, but recently it has deteriorated a lot. I doubt it's your ethnicity.. it's just life in Canada these days where drugs are out of control and police are useless as you have seen. The crazy cost of living is causing mental health to rapidly deteriorate and what you are experiencing is the result. Your best bet is to stay extra vigilant when you are out in the streets and try to stay away from sketchy looking people. Or just leave Canada.. because I don't think it's gonna get any better. I'm thinking of doing exactly that myself.
Do you know if there are any initiatives to make communities safer for non-violent citizens? I don’t understand why this is tolerated … like I understand at some level that the decision-makers live in gated communities and don’t care, but I don’t really GET it.
Frankly, I believe there is a concerted effort on a Global scale to destabilize Western Democracies. It’s the same pattern in the United States, in the UK, in Australia, Germany, France, etc. There are a number of wealthy people that are benefiting from the status quo who are pushing this agenda of drug decriminalization and reducing penalties for crime. Canada has become a heaven for money laundering, auto theft, petty theft, drug dealers, and mortgage fraud on an epic scale and nobody is doing anything about it. Quite the opposite.. our government just keeps making the situation worse. There are neighbourhood watch programs in a few areas but they don’t do much. You can’t even defend your home/family in this country from a violent brake in. You will go to jail. The laws here are completely insane and offer more protection to criminals than they do the victims of their crimes. I dunno.. like I said.. pretty much giving up on this country after being here 30 years. It’s completely collapsing.
I have lived in Canada for 65 years, yes what you wrote is too true.
I get chased down the street, called names, things thrown at me all on my way to work at six am. I live in Ottawa.
From the GTA.
Was not prepared for how Ottawa had changed when I visited last spring. Stayed in the Market and was stunned by the open drug use, and assertive panhandling (and I mean approaching people sitting on the patio enjoying their evening 5/6 times an hour).
Didn’t feel unsafe but was on edge walking for sure.
I've lived in Toronto about 20 years now, and Yonge St from Queen to Bloor has always been the worst area for getting accosted by crazies. I suspect it's because people who want to beg or scam tourists seek out the area, so it attracts a more obnoxious group. Every other neighborhood I've been to is better. Even the areas that have lots of homeless or mentally ill people, they usually leave you alone. This hasn't changed in 20 years, and if anything is just getting worse. I'd advise moving anywhere else in the city.
"Progressive" policies. Divert every criminal case whenever drug addiction or mental illness is involved. Even where diversion is not possible, give the most minimally restricted and time-limited sentence possible. Even where someone has a rap sheet of 50 violent convictions, give them bail as a default right. Prevent the police from talking to anyone on the street and having a presence, absent proof of a crime to investigate. Spread out homeless shelters around the city to avoid concentrating folks in one area. Open up supervised injection sites, so everyone knows in which alley to find drug dealers, and put them in the most transit-accessible locations so people can roam far around the city once high. Don't enforce fares for "unwell" people because they need their money for drugs. Don't remove them from turning the TTC into their personal home because that would be cruel. Don't arrest them for shouting racial epithets or threatening minorities because they don't mean what they're saying, it's just the illness. Don't arrest them for attacking someone because the Crown will always offer a plea deal because their backlog is so high and agree to just a token 1 day sentence. Need I go on?
Hey so sorry you had to face this. Please consider moving out of this area to a suburb, regardless of what you hear they are safer for bringing up children. Toronto police doesn’t care about safety of visible minorities and the anti immigrant rhetoric on social media adds fuel to the mental health crises and drug crises that the city is facing. Suburbs like Markham, Richmond Hill, Pickering etc. are better for families as there are less entrepreneurial opportunities for the homeless.
I think the best place to raise a family is always the suburbs (Markham, Richmond hill, Vaughan), downtown always has the highest concentration of crazies
If this is your only option, try getting a male accompaniment (husband, any guy friend), people won't pick on you if there's another guy watching over
We moved to Toronto in 2020 looking for that ideal city life too... and left last year for Oakville. We'll be back when the kids are grown but for now? No thanks. Sorry this happened to you. It's bonkers
I’m a (petite) Asian female who lived in that neighborhood for five years just before the pandemic hit. I would also walk around at night (between 8-10pm) and generally I felt safe, even though I have had the occasional encounters with mentally unstable persons esp lounging outside the McDonalds spot on Yonge. I’ve been back a few times since after the pandemic and it looks like the area has changed a bit. It’s an area with lots of students though so I guess it depends on which part of Bloor/Yonge you find yourself in.
As a short-term solution, find an alternative route to daycare.
Long-term solution, if this continues, you might have to try to move to another neighborhood. Things I would not care so much about as a single woman is now always a factor with my 3-year old toddler. I totally get your worries. I now live in the St Lawrence market area and it’s a safe area for those with young children if you still want to be in a walkable part of the city.
Of course, yes, send all sorts of messages to the MPs and the mayor as well.
Oh my GOD! I am so sorry this has happened to you and your child - and on multiple occasions! This is really terrible, just outrageous harassment. It SHOULD be illegal to shout and threaten people on the street like this. I would be scared to leave my home. You are doing the right things - I hope you get the support and response that is required. No one should feel unsafe walking in Toronto. I hope everything improves in your neighbourhood - and throughout our usually fair city.
I’m sorry you are experiencing this. It’s horrible to not feel safe going about your life, and with your child. The number of unstable and troubled people on the TTC is alarming. Remember that the vast majority of people are also just going about their days - but it’s so jarring to be accosted and yelled at and feel worried someone will harm you. What you probably already do, but we always do now, is leave the vehicle and wait for the next one whenever anyone is doing anything out of the typical. Having been targeted by a verbal assault, I am not staying in any situation that feels the slightest bit off. If possible I wouldn’t avoid the TTC as it will make it harder to go back - but I’m sorry you have experienced this.
It’s not just a feeling. A man came up to me, leaned into me, and told me he would punch me in the face
Thank you, I have actually decided never to use the ttc lol. There’s no escape there. But I appreciate the advice!
This breaks my heart, OP, I am so sorry you’re going through this. I wish I could be your personal bodyguard and walk with you wherever you needed. Most of all I wish you never have to experience anything like that, especially with your young child. Is there anyone within your area that you could do daycare drop up with like a buddy system?
So sad to see all the comments here just say - hey it's a city, it's downtown, ignore, let these guys shout and hope that they don't harm you...instead of yes - police needs to give them a verbal warning, it's not these guys are one off case, they probably do this to 5 other folks every day, so instead of saying let's get these guys off our streets, all I see is comments normalizing this shit...
My full support to you unfortunately you can't do anything except ignore them, the city doesn't care about these folks, the police doesn't care till they turn violent and people are ok with this being normal.
If you can - ignore them, carry a pepper spray although I would strongly advise against using it since the blame would fall on you either way...
Best you can do for your mental health and safety, move closer to suburbs or family areas in downtown...
All the best
>**So sad to see all the comments here just say** - **hey it's a city, it's downtown, ignore**, let these guys shout and hope that they don't harm you
>My full support to you unfortunately **you can't do anything except ignore them**
????
I empathize with your situation and your concerns and the effect these concerns have had on your daily life. I expect that my comment will be downvoted as it is hard to seem to defend such ugly and irrational people as you describe when you are so articulate in your depiction of these incidents. However, I am really concerned about some of your proposed “solutions”.
What is your definition of “verbal assault” and what kind of penalty do you think is reasonable and proportionate for this? “I will punch you in the face” is an overt threat of violence and is already a crime. So, too, are threats to kill you which you mentioned at the end of your post. However, all the rest of the utterances you describe are not threats. Yelling at you to leave or to “get the fuck out of here” are not threats of violence. How would we criminalize them? What would meet the definition and what wouldn’t? I don’t want to live in a city/country where you could end up with a criminal record for telling someone to “fuck off”. That seems to make it way too easy for the state to potentially abuse its power against whomever it doesn’t like.
Similarly, there are already considerable provisions for self defense as a defense to prosecution under the criminal code (section 34). The only thing that allowing people to carry bear spray around to use in this type of situation would do is to make it much more likely the other person also has such a weapon. Also, if you would have used bear spray against the person whose yelling at you to leave caused you to cry in fear, I think you would generally have a hard time legally convincing a court that using a weapon to inflict physical harm is a proportionate response to verbal threat (if there even were actual threats).
Context matters here, no? If I tell someone to “fuck off” because we’re in an argument and then I got about my day, it shouldn’t be illegal to do so.
But if I decide at random to invade someone’s personal space and tell them to “fuck off” closely for no particular reason? Yeah, that person should probably be off the streets an in an asylum.
This is my take on it as well. If you are approaching strangers and threatening them, you need to be away from the public ASAP, because you *are* a danger to everybody else, and nobody can predict or control what it is that's stopping you from actually following through on your threats.
I've had someone threaten to kill me, completely out of nowhere on a subway train. Just walked up, told me "you're dead, just watch", threateningly stared at me for a few seconds, then strolled away as if nothing had happened -- then repeated it to a few other people on the train, all of whom were pretty shaken up over it. That person needs to be somewhere that he can't just decide one day to actually whip out a knife and follow through with his threats to harm random subway passengers.
No eye contact… wear shades if you have to. Once you engage eye contact, it’s an invitation for these crazies to start conversing with you. They ignore people that don’t respond to them…
Welcome to downtown and downtownish Toronto where unpredictable, strung out, aggressive homeless people abound. With people popping off guns and Roman candles in the streets, there’s not much cops are going to do to solve this problem. They can tell them to move on but they come back. Realistically there’s no where to place the drug addicted or mentally ill homeless. They can be sent to detox for a couple of days but they’re back in the usual haunts shortly after getting out.
I think your options to get to daycare are to walk with others in your area, drive, or have your partner take your child. Or move.
I grew up off Pape just north of the Danforth, so Toronto/East York but not downtown or downtownish proper. And while it was common to see a familiar homeless crew on the Danforth, it wasn’t common just a 6 blocks north. There’s always been homeless downtown, there will always be homeless downtown. You’ll have to learn to cope with it or move away from Yonge and Bloor. And honestly, with the amount of used and broken needles I see on the streets - all. The. Time., it’s not great. I mean every time I’m south of Rosedale station, I see at least, at least one used needle and at least 1 unpredictable, erratic homeless person. Last month I’m walking by Church and Carlton and there’s a homeless guy with his shirt open, pant zipper open, junk hanging out, mumbling walking up Church. This is an endemic part of downtown.
I'm sorry to hear this. I've lived in the area for a decade and never had any bad experiences like this. I'm a guy though. It's especially disappointing that you're too afraid to walk down the street anymore.
Would you mind my asking where specifically these 2 experiences happened?
One was in front of Chipotle. The other was in front of Chapters/Indigo. The other was in the TTC but I can’t remember which station. (There were others in the TTC, more like glaring at me and almost approaching me, but I honestly feel like I’ve repressed some of it because this was when I first moved and I literally was so terrified)
Ouch. Sorry about that.
You mentioned needing to goto Rabba to get milk but are too scared to go outside. That's very unfortunate.
I'd be happy to walk you there if it helps. Though I completely get that you might not feel very comfortable around men who are strangers right now so no pressure.
Btw the Rabba north of Church and Bloor is right next to a kinda sketchy area. But the other two are very safe.
Thanks so much, I appreciate you! My husband does groceries now, generally speaking (I just wanted milk asap for my coffee, but I ended up drinking it black).
My major issue other than anxiety is that I used to live in Saudi Arabia and one of the things I love about Canada is that women can use public spaces without stigma. But now I feel like I am trapped all over again and it makes me super upset because it’s just a different form of repression of women.
that's unfortunate. i've personally never felt anything in the decade i've lived in this neighborhood but i guess it might be different for women.
not to be presumptuous but do you and your husband by any chance goto the mosque on yonge just north of the library? if so i might know him :)
I work right there. There does seem to be an increase in mentally unstable people in the area yelling various things. After a lifetime of living in the city, I pay them no mind, don’t make eye contact or engage in any way and go about my business but I understand that is harder if you haven’t been in the city long. In my experience, the fear that one of these people will try to hurt or interact with you is far greater than the actual likelihood of them doing so. You have some ideas here but I also think you want to be careful not to allow fear to keep you and your daughter from enjoying all of what the city has to offer.
My Muslim friend would wear a sun hat instead of her hijab in some situations. I know it's not ideal, but it might help you blend in more when it comes to intolerant druggies.
I'm sorry.
The city has let all its citizens down. From failing law-abiding people to letting the most vulnerable fall through the cracks.
We need rehab beds and psychologists to help those on the street struggling with addiction and mental health, not more safe injection sites.
There's so much more random violence on our streets, we all need to look out for one another.
I’m with everyone in this sub, I’m so sorry this happened.
This isn’t a solution but rather an idea in the meantime, could you and your daughter perhaps listen to music while going through the area that these events have occurred?
I’m a women and I know it’s important to be aware of surroundings but in moments where it’s likely for verbal as opposed to physical assault to occur, I wear headphones and turn them up louder when walking through areas of homelessness (like union station for example)
Where are you walking that you encounter this? I ask because I moved to Yonge-Bloor recently and I am always walking around the area with my 3 year old and have not encountered any incidents. Sure we’ve walked by some homeless or mentally unwell people but none of them have interacted with me in any way.
Carry a travel size aerosol hairspray or sunscreen or any other beauty product with you. Use it as mace. I hate that I have to carry a can with me and that I have to suggest it. Til we're allowed a real way to protect ourselves/get away I'll keep using this loophole
The police are SO full of shit. If anyone talked to them like that; after tasering and beating the shit out of said person; they would charge them with something. Toronto police are just lazy asses.
Pepper spray those dummies.
In all seriousness though, wear a whistle, it'll likely scare them off once it starts going off as it'll draw attention to the situation obviously.
Your not be targeted. Anyone that even glancea at these people will get their anger and hate.
99% of these people are harmless. Ignore and move on.
I know it's not right that we have to deal with it but if you want to live in the city without being sheltered it's something you have to come to terms with.
Welcome to life in Canada under the current catch and release policies. The sad reality is even if they were charged for uttering death threats they would be released the same day. There is a complete disconnect between law and order in this country unfortunately. Every large metropolis in Canada has something similar to your experience going on
Telling someone you will punch them in the face and calling them a bitch is a bit more serious than calling someone stupid.
The point is if someone is mentally unwell and verbally assaulting random passerby’s and vulnerable people they need to be removed from either that area, given meds or evaluated.
If you can go around threatening to assault people with no action taken against you odds are you’ll eventually physically assault someone
Welcome to Toronto. The sketchy intersections change, but there will always be someone at a street corner yelling nonsense.
My advice is ignore them and move on. It's not illegal to tell someone to fuck off, as unpleasant as it may be.
More like welcome to every major city centre in North America especially post pandemic. It could be worse and OP could be living in NYC, Chicago, LA, San Fran, Vancouver etc where homeless, drug addicts and mentally ill are even more prevalent and left alone by police than here. If you're not cut out to deal with it the only thing you can do is move to a more secluded town or city but even that isn't a guarantee of safe living because those places also tend to be littered with addicts and mentally ill just the same.
I've been to all those cities I mentioned, some in the past 2-3 years since travel opened back up post pandemic and speaking from personal experience. If you think aggressively homeless and mentally ill are exclusive to Toronto it sounds like you're the one who needs to travel more.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm like you and I also like doing things alone; I pretty much expect something to happen when I go out (like recently someone yelled in my ear while I was walking on Spadina). It sucks how the only solution is to work around it. I pretty much just don't go out anymore.
Complaining about crime in a Toronto subreddit?! God you're brave. Everyone else who does this gets told they're the problem by self-hating citizens who expect others to show empathy to the criminals that assault them lol.
Yeah, uhhh, if you want to live in a non-mentally ill area, downtown Toronto is not the place lol. With that said, you could also get a keychain safety alarm. One that is very loud, like 100db which you could activate at a moments notice to alert others of danger and hopefully cause the aggressor to back off. Just might want to cover your 2 year olds ears to prevent hearing damage.
Also, not that you should have to adjust your ways, but perhaps taking a lesser used back street would be safer instead of Yonge St where the drifters congregate more.
I think something to think about in the short term is finding out if you have any neighbours or people whose kids go to the same daycare as you who would be willing/able to walk with you. This might go a long way to making you feel safer and for making you look less vulnerable. I am so sorry this is happening to you. It’s not right.
This is a good idea, thank you! I think there is another couple who goes, and it’s usually the husband, so maybe I will chat with them.
You could also look for neighbours who are out walking their dogs around that time. If you live in a condo, maybe put up a note on the notice board and say you’re looking for a walking buddy. You never know, there might be more people in this same situation. Wishing you the best!
Love this!! As someone with a dog I’d be happy to walk with someone in my area if they felt unsafe as part of our walks!
Thank you ❤️all veryy good ideas. I’ll do that this weekend.
I hope it works out! I’m a parent of a young child too and I prefer living in the city as opposed to the suburbs for all the reasons you stated, but I get that sense of vulnerability too. I’m a white woman and haven’t had the same level of scary experiences, so I do not think you’re exaggerating or anything - I know from hearing various friends’ stories they’ve had bad experiences in public places I never have, and it’s very probable it’s my whiteness protecting me. Don’t let the comments here discounting your experience make you doubt yourself, is what I’m saying, I guess.
I don’t mean to assume it’s overtly racial. I just feel like it might make me more eye catching cos I don’t look like other people. Thanks for all your support❤️ Take care.
As much as it’s impossible to say for sure, you’re probably right. I’m a woman and often in that area and haven’t had that experience but I’m white. I’m sorry that’s happened, you should be able to safely walk your child to their daycare without being yelled at.
I worked at Y&B for a dozen years, I was regularly harrassed for walking while white and being a woman. The common denominator is being a woman. Women are easy targets because we are less likely to escalate, get physical and will slink away out of fear.
To add to this, I think if you ask any kind looking stranger to escort you past them most people would be happy to help. Torontonians can look scary when they’re on a mission to get to wherever they’re going but take pride in being asked for help.
Yes but this depends…most people in the city have their headphones on and avoid strangers approaching them like the plague.
Nice
Finally, someone mentions a practical solution that may actually be doable. There is safety in numbers and in community. Best answer so far that takes this woman seriously without calling for harsher punishments for mentally unstable people.
Depending on where you’re headed, Bloor/Church to Bloor/Bay are connected underground. Might be a good option as it’s a safer with the office workers crowd. The only issue is that you’ll have to go up and down stairs to access the underground (not as feasible with a stroller).
I live in the area and you see the same in the underground, it's actually scarier because there's a lot less people around, but the security guards from the buildings usually make them leave fast
I considered this but I actually feel like it’s safer to be above ground? I also considered taking quieter routes but part of me feels it would be more dangerous to be on a quiet road if someone comes at me. And yeah impossible with a stroller
The reality though is these guys stick to the main streets mainly, as they are often pan handling. Quieter side streets or the PATH are almost certainly less likely to lead to confrontation. Also, not sure what you do in the moment but I (as a mom of two Yonge children who just recently moved away from the downtown core and frequently dealt with this issue in Dundas) take the approach of looking right past them and briskly passing them by with a wide berth and no eye contact and no acknowledgment. They lose interest quickly when ignored.
I do this and it hasn’t seemed to work. I acknowledge however that this doesn’t happen daily, but since it has happened several times I am extremely worried.
The PATH is generally safer because there are security guards everywhere. They remove the panhandlers/ ‘street crowd’ proactively.
Big big no to going in the underground area especially with a child. Bloor Yonge is a very core area that is a major intersection of two lines that ppl travel from all over the city. It used to be safe and fun to take children but it is no longer. To be perfectly honest, I would move. There are plenty of other areas in the city that have a bigger sense of community, more children and probably less expensive and less central in terms of major transit
The area from College to Bloor on Yonge is intermittently fucked and is worst in the early mornings. I have sympathy for people struggling but I do wish there were more safety measures for people are just trying to get through the day. This might not be an option, but I would recommend looking for round about ways to reach your destination on quieter streets (not deserted) - eg going up a block to walk through Yorkville to avoid Bloor, or walking on Bay instead of Yonge. Of course it depends on where you live in relation to your daycare, but maybe there’s another route that avoids the “hot spots” so to speak. I find these types of people tend to be found in the same areas repeatedly. Sorry this happened to you. It’s not unique to Toronto, but it’s certainly an unfortunate situation to deal with in any city. I’d say it’s new but it has been like this for at least the 12 years I’ve been living/workingl in the core.
I live in the Bloor-Yonge area and a female SEA minority. I experienced this same crappy thing once from an obviously unwell man. And yes, I had my baby in a stroller too. Sorry that you had to experience this too. Solidarity.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
I'm so angry after reading this post. At least once a week there will be an unstable man verbally assaulting me at this point. It's enough to make me, a 110 kg man feel uneasy let alone women. I'm so sorry for this, in these cases you gotta look out ahead of time and just change direction completely. It's a gamble as to whether they will have a breakdown once you get close to them. This city is so frustrating sometimes, you've got beautiful areas like Harbour Front and then you've got areas like anything east and north of Yonge/Dundas. My final advice is learn the patterns of these guys and just try to avoid their preferred spots.
Seeing insane people on the TTC is now the norm sadly. Back in the day the driver would kick certain people off due to the need to buy tickets. Now it’s a free for all and I was also verbally harassed recently while on the TTC. Shit is wild these days.
Things tend to go to shit when rules stop being enforced.
Or when rampant income inequality, inflation, houselessness, and racism is allowed to proceed unchecked.
They've stopped doing this likely because of 2 reasons: 1) to not escalate the issue with the mentally ill person, running the risk of them getting harmed, or other passengers 2) possibly a union thing that's in their clause about emergency/safety measures they have to follow when dealing with mentally ill passengers
Thanks for the support ❤️
This part of Yonge Street really is an open-air asylum. If it's possible for you to go out of your way and use Bay, that's usually better.
It's honestly the same everywhere, though. I was harassed just outside of Forest Hill, on my way to TTC. I'm a woman, and I told him repeatedly that I don't talk to strangers, but he would not leave me alone. People were all around me and no one stepped in (not that I expected anyone to, but it's easy to just assume that everything is fine). And it's difficult to know what to do and how to react. Should you tell them to back off, or should you not engage and completely ignore? Either reaction can cause the person to react in an undesirable way - they're totally unpredictable. Unfortunately, this is all too common across the city. I saw someone post that Uber has a walking partner feature, which could be something worth looking into (if you could maybe select who, I don't know...). But that's an additional cost... I'm not sure if there's any "fixing" this, tbh. It's a sad state.
Thanks.. I’ve considered and Bay is def quieter, but I mentioned elsewhere that I’m concerned that if it’s TOO quiet then if something happens, no one else will be around to help. I feel that police presence will alleviate this concern.
Take Bay. It’s still busy especially around rush hour but mostly with professionals going to/from work or students with school. I’m a 6ft tall man who gets approached often but not often in a threatening manner, and I avoid Yonge whenever possible (I live between Yonge and Bay. Even before I lived in the neighbourhood like 10 years ago Bay has always been much better to walk along. The only time I’m walking on Yonge is to go somewhere on Yonge and even then I’ll walk on Bay or the side-streets and paths then turn onto Yonge. I’m not as concerned about my personal safety but Yonge is always unpleasant to walk along
Bay has wider sidewalks making it much easier to get by people than Yonge. Less likely to make contact with people.
A good rule of thumb is to change direction as soon as you see them at least a block away. Do not walk directly towards or near them. This is inviting trouble. The police may think this is small potatoes, but small potatoes can become very big potatoes if you are not vigilant. If you see them in your immediate line of sight, take evasive measures!
I agree with you and this is good advice but It’s so sad and wild she needs to be maneuvering around fucking violent unstable wing nuts like this when she’s just trying to her her toddler to daycare
Sadly, no one cares until you actually die. Even then, do they really care? There is more “understanding” for the violent perpetrator than a mother and an innocent baby.
I agree. If I see an unhoused person coming towards me, I make a big effort to make extra room.
Agreed as well — I literally just cross the street if I get at all uneasy; works every time!
My problem is it’s much harder to do many of these things with a baby. Like I mentioned- I wouldn’t jaywalk with a 2 year old on a busy street.
In this case, the street is at least 10-15 metres wide. I intentionally kept right at the edge of the sidewalk. He came RUNNING up to me. No reason at all- other people were walking past him and he didn’t care The fact that these street smart tactics work for other people but not me makes me think it’s 100% related to how I look or that I have a baby.
Decriminalization of prohibited weapons like bear spray would have to be done by the federal government and that 's not happening under this government or a prospective conservative government. My experience with people using bear spray for self defence is that the person defending themselves cross contaminates themselves along with innocent bystanders.
This is one of my concerns, especially with a daughter. That I would use it poorly and harm others. But someone suggested carrying a siren or Axe spray, and I think that seems feasible and less illegal
Most of these, if not all, will simply escalate the situation. Things like mace and spray will simply antagonize someone that's already deranged and it won't really stop them in the moment. Their adrenaline will shoot through the roof and are more likely to become physical. Sirens, albeit less "intrusive" as a spray in the face, can also trigger a fight response, especially in someone that's already not right in the head. I strongly recommend these are not requested. It'll only make matters worse and more dangerous for the victims unfortunately.
I agree- it’s moreso in a total emergency. Lets be honest, I am not likely to have the presence of mind to do any of this. It’s just a pretence that I have some power, I guess. Because my anxiety is through the roof. I didn’t do any work all day and just kept reliving scenarios that could happen to my daughter if this onslaught continues. This is partially why I want police presence- I don’t expect them to actually do anything but their visual presence (of police/security/etc) is often enough to deter this behaviour and to alleviate anxiety for me as a woman alone. Sometimes it escalates it (some people get angry at cops), but then it’s on the cop to de-escalate. I work in healthcare and am familiar in de-escalation. But de-escalation in a controlled environment (a hospital), where you can also call security if someone becomes verbally aggressive, is very different from in public with your child.
Yeah I was gonna suggest carrying a small bottle of hairspray. That’s not illegal and just as effective
Can you start looking at other areas of the city? That isn’t the best area to raise kids (not the worst but there are always going to be problems there).
Yes, I would also recommend making plans to move elsewhere if it is feasible. I know it isn't a "fair" response, as you've done nothing wrong and should not be required to change your life. However, this neighborhood is in crisis. I work in the area and I have also frequently been harassed, and have had racial slurs and foul language directed at me. Even when walking with a female co-worker there are incidents. This has happened despite no engagement, and no eye contact from me. I recall a few months ago, an innocent passerby was stabbed in the back with a needle, and just last week I heard there was a man with an axe (?!) near Wellesley stn. The problems with addiction and housing instability are not being addressed, and the situation is only getting worse. The constant fear and harassment is so stressful. I am relieved to leave the area at the end of the day. I plan to seek employment in another location.
> “100% something to do with myself or the fact that I have a baby”. (Paraphrased cuz I lost the comment) To me, it seems like people want someone to blame for their misfortune. (Of course the issue is far more complex than that, but that is to give an answer to the question of why YOU.) You’re a visible minority and to a lot of deluded people, that means you’re not “from here”. Not being “from here” is an easy way to blame something not in the original equation for misfortune in your own life. (I hope that made sense) Instead of waiting for bear spray and the like to be legalized, something you might want to consider carrying with you is hairspray. Being a woman who wears a scarf it might not come to mind as much, but gosh does it absolutely burn to get that stuff in your eyes. Obviously wouldn’t have the same effect as bear spray, but it would definitely stun someone enough for them to stop attacking you. I’m sorry that these are words we’re having to use in a conversation that involves your daughter. Otherwise for safety tools, a personal alarm is a great choice as I saw another redditor suggest. The majority of people are good people who would want to help if something were happening, so just having that ability to immediately draw attention to what’s happening to you means the sooner you’re gonna get some help. Covenant House was mentioned and I also think that’s a safe place to look into.
Thanks so much! I am definitely getting a siren or something. And yeah you’re right, I never use hairspray loool so maybe this is a good chance to use up my bottle.
It’s hard to do that downtown when there’s dozens of them on each side of the street. Most often you just have to look straight ahead, avoid eye contact, and hope for the best. The sad new reality of this city.
I wish I knew why they tend to gather in the most populated places
This is a big problem for me. On smaller roads I have had to take my stroller and walk on the road itself because people are on both sides. Imagine if a car accidentally hit me! It wouldn’t even be their fault. But you can’t even do that on major roads.
Also don't look at them. When you look at them they will notice and generally go after you.
I sympathize, but just want to say after living in Toronto for 14 years I just moved away last month. I also lived by Bloor and Yonge, and in the past three years it has gotten much worse there. More notably, I have seen people projectile vomiting on the subway, openly smoking crack pipes by the old Starbucks that closed, and finally there was someone high on drugs aggressively yelling at everyone until one person pulled a knife and threatened to stab the guy if he didn't back off. Honestly, if I were you I would look at moving away from that intersection. Between Bathurst and Ossington it is a really nice community. But Bloor Yonge itself is only going to get worse. Maybe try writing to the businesses there? I'm sure Lululemon who's opening a store won't feel too happy if customers feel unsafe outside their store. Try getting these large businesses to help apply pressure to help fix the issue.
I used to live near Bloor/Yonge until I was physically assaulted walking home from work one day. After that I was terrified to do anything outside, couldn't even go grocery shopping by myself. I moved 3 years ago to a more residential part of Toronto and I'm so glad I feel safe again. I know not everyone is able to move, but I just don't see how the situation is going to get better - at least I have no power to do anything about it. So I did the only thing I could to be safe and went somewhere else 🤷
Agreed! The last normal time I remember in that area was the rush/craze before Covid lockdowns. Then silence for months- years. Coming back things have never looked the same
This is really smart tbh. I’ll think about this more! Thanks!! I totally agree that big businesses have more power than we do lol
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Thanks. I love this idea and am ordering one right away!
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So smart!!!! I didn’t even think of acclimation. Thank you!! You rock.
I am so sorry that this is happening to you. To anyone. Walking in pairs is good. Looking alert is good. A self defense course would be good too. A shame its needed. We we offered some self defense type things when I started university and there were tips offered that made me feel better prepared. But really. I wish it could be that you felt safe just as you are. I feel so old saying this, but in the early 90s at university, we talked of a time that we could walk alone and not worry.
The best advice for you is to move to a safer area because nobody cares about solving these issues. Don’t listen to anyone who says this is normal.
Thank you.. it’s helpful to know that I can’t be optimistic
I moved to a new safer area a few years ago that has always been quiet and pristine and beautiful. In the last 3 months there are now 16 different homeless encampments I pass on my walk to the dog park. In the last 2 weeks, 2 set up tents directly in the kids soccer field and the occupants have been seen urinating/defecating around their tents in the park. There's not going to be many safe areas left soon.
Why should we be forced to leave the amenities of the city? This is bs
they’re talking shit to you because they know you can’t hurt them so ultimately they’re lowlife cowards.
I’m going to be real with you - this is the nature of living downtown as a woman. I have lived here for 13 years in various areas and it’s just how she goes. Yonge and Bloor is like a spawn point for crackheads. Anywhere between Lansdowne to Broadview, and Front to Eglinton, it’ll happen. I’ve had things thrown at me, I’ve had people insult me, scream at me, hit on me, assault me, grope me, follow me for blocks, you name it. It fucking sucks. Now that the weather is warmer, assholes spend more time outside as do the rest of us. We live in a city that underfunds healthcare and generally doesn’t know what to do with people who have addictions issues or mental health issues. To your question - advocate and vote for anything that increases healthcare funding because this also tends to include institutionalization, drug rehab, mental health services, etc. Increasing police funding does fuck all because police literally do not care, as you’ve unfortunately found out. Other things I recommend, which, yes, aren’t *the answer* but are things I’ve found helpful: Improve your cardio so you can run the fuck away - jumping rope is an easy way to do this if you’re uncomfortable going for a run. Working out in general, joining a combat sport, also good. Avoid eye contact as much as possible. Don’t respond to anyone you don’t know. Avoid walking alone when possible, but especially at night. If anyone ever bothers you, cause a scene, LOUDLY. I’m sorry it’s like this.
I am not saying it not racially motivated. But as a white person I’ve had a junkie on the train yell and scream that I am a “blue eyed devil”. The unstable people are everywhere in the city. I think they just pick the first thing they think will be offensive. In my case it was weird cause they were also of the Caucasian variety.
I’m very sorry to hear of your experience. As a woman of East Asian descent, I echo all of your sentiments about not feeling safe. It was my last straw that led me to get a car, though I live in one of the most convenient areas for public transit. Even transit in the suburbs has gotten bad with harassment and people making me uncomfortable.
Avoid eye contact at all costs. Head down. Be safe. I am a Caucasian female and also experienced this in the downtown area. Once on Christmas morning. Eye contact was usually the trigger.
So sorry to hear that, thanks
Being within spitting distance of these people is not advised. You must be ready to move away from them when they move toward you. You need to have your head on a swivel and watch out for them before they have the chance to come close to you in neighborhoods like Yonge and Bloor. Sometimes this involves taking a long detour. Being someone myself who also walks with my two year old around downtown, I have developed a heightened sense of awareness and routes to avoid, places I know have more than your fair share of the wrong type of people. Best you just keep your head up and don't show your daughter you have been rocked by someones mental breakdown that you were present for. Walk away like it is nothing. None of this is fair, or correct or the way things should be. I am sorry this is happened to you. Can I recommend a book for you called **The Gift of Fear - by Gavin De Becker .** A great book on watching for warning signs of violence.
Thanks for this. Will look into the book I agree with you but I think why I am so rattled is that i have been doing all of this and it still happened. I know life can’t be 100% safe but it honestly feels like I have no power over my own life, like I’m back to living in Saudi Arabia where I didn’t even walk outside. (In that case, the issue wasn’t drug users though.) it’s extremely depressing to me as a feminist, even, that basically every woman i talk to suggests using Uber, driving, or walking in constant vigilance when it’s not even nighttime. That’s why I want to get involved at a more political/community level. Like, I am a citizen, I should be able to use public goods.
This is exactly what the problem is, though. Nobody should *have* to worry about this shit in our city. The fact that the advice is "just assume anyone and everyone could, out of nowhere, harm you with no warning" means that the system has failed the citizens and *something needs to be done about it*. This is exactly how we wind up being governed by a strongman who promises to clean the mess up in exchange for broad, sweeping powers to lock people up and/or ship them away. Do I want that? No, of course not -- but we are barreling toward it at a very rapid pace. The next provincial and federal governments, and perhaps municipal as well, are almost guaranteed to be quite right-wing if we keep it up with this "anything goes" mentality surrounding drugs, mental illness and antisocial behaviour.
>Being within spitting distance of these people is not advised Unless spitting distance is 10m to you, she's not within spitting distance of these people. OP said that people will come at her from 10m away and weave through other people to get to her. I can't imagine how scary that must be, to be so targeted like that.
I also live at Bloor Yonge and have been physically grabbed one night so i feel you, as some others said I’ve just learned to cross the street proactively
So sorry to hear that. I don’t go out at night anymore, my husband does all that now.
If you are renting, will suggest to switch to a safer neighborhood. No one deserves to live life under a constant threat. Not good for your mental and overall wellbeing.
I am very sorry this is happening to you and your daughter. So scary, I’m sorry. I hate that you can’t even feel safe walking down the street. Unfair. Not that this will make you feel any better but I am just an average (probably below average 😆) middle-aged white lady and I have had the same kind of insane experiences with men on the street shouting at me, spitting on me, following me, etc. It’s totally unacceptable and extra infuriating because I know this never happens to my 6 foot 4 husband.
I'm near that area and I get verbally assaulted every so often. They're on drugs or coming off drugs. Just don't make eye contact and continue walking. Downtown has been like this for the last 35 years.
> Downtown has been like this for the last 35 years. Yes, it has, but it's become *significantly* worse in the last couple of years. I moved here in 2012, and from that year until 2020, I was accosted once or twice, total (I'm a tall man in my 30s). Over the past few months, I've been yelled at, threatened, and have had things thrown at me several times -- and that's just in 2024. Last year, an obviously-unwell man took a huge haymaker swing at me at Keele station, and didn't miss me by much -- out of nowhere, a sucker punch from behind that I saw coming only because the train was arriving and I looked behind me just as he was trying to clobber me. That kind of shit did NOT happen ten years ago. The TTC guy I told about it basically told me to forget about it and get on my train home.
Keele station was also the place where the 16 year old was stabbed and died. Can't believe that was more than a year ago now.
To be fair Toronto was *much* worse in the late 80s and 90s. There was no Reddit or social media back then to spread the news every time this happened. It's bad now but it was *worse* 35 years ago.
I’m sorry you’re experiencing this. It sounds very scary. Unfortunately, these problems are the manifestations of systemic policy failures. The federal and provincial governments’ unwillingness to invest in affordable housing, accessible mental health and disability supports, meaningful education and employment opportunities, and interventions to separate people from the toxic, unregulated drug supply (eg evidence based addiction treatment, pharmaceutical alternatives to the illegal supply, harm reduction services) are the root causes. To that end, directing more resources to street level enforcement won’t fundamentally change things. I understand the desire to protect yourself and to punish people who make us feel unsafe - truly, I do (for context, I’m currently seated right at Bloor and Yonge and was just approached by someone who elicited this reaction in me. I gave him a cigarette and he de-escalated, though I realize this is not always an appropriate option.) And, policing individuals is just playing whack a mole. A few orgs who do good advocacy around the aforementioned solutions, that you could get involved with, include: The Ontario Health Coalition The Ontario Disability Alliance The Ontario Harm Reduction Network The Ontario Coalition Against Poverty
Street level police presence can make people safer. Yes, we need to address the root causes but in the meantime people deserve to not be harassed in the streets. Constant anxiety causes new mental health problems. While we wait for root issues to be solved, we obviously need an immediate solution that keeps people safe. Your response is insensitive at best.
u/Southern-Tap4275 wants us to go the route of Portland and Vancouver . You can look up how well that's going if you'd like - needless to say it's an abject disaster. I'm all for supports , and there are policy failures at all levels of government you won't get a single argument from me there. But Moreso we have a societal failure that this is now acceptable behavior . Support and treatment needs to be non optional, I'm fine with paying whatever it costs to treat people, house them , provide them with food, clothing, therapy . But providing people with options and safe places to consume these drugs, or worse - providing the drugs - is probably the worst policy failure there is - it's an endless cycle of overdoses and then bringing people back, and almost no one will ever choose treatment if they can get their fix safely and easily - so this problem will just expand, and grow over time ( which it's expanding and growing ). Saving addicts lives if possible is important, but more important is protecting society from them, however we need to - allowing people to get obliterated on Fentanyl or worse and then roam the streets victimizing people is not a solution. The solution to social program failures is not more social programs, sometimes you need tough love - and as I said , I'm not suggesting we simply let people die in the streets, but I am suggesting we remove their freedom to choose for themselves because they aren't mentally well enough to do so .
I actually live just off of Vancouver’s downtown eastside. I spent several years homeless there myself as a young person, while disabled and heavily addicted to crack cocaine. You are correct - it is an abject disaster. The disaster, however, has been caused by the dynamics I’ve mentioned above (all of which are inextricable from the DTES having been built through policy as an open air asylum). You appear to be quite misinformed. I don’t blame you - disinformation has proliferated wildly in recent years, particularly as we move into the next federal election cycle. I would be happy to provide links to the academic articles, policy platforms, or book I’ve written on the subject :)
I lived in Covenant house in Toronto for years myself ( back in the 2000s ) so I'm glad you've also managed to save yourself from the streets, they are vicious and unforgiving. Lost a good friend during my time there to addiction , and I am genuinely glad you're still on the planet today fellow redditor. I'm not misinformed , and you're quite frankly delusional if you think you can solve the drug crisis with social programs and money while leaving the freedom of choice in place - most addicts will keep using regardless of the help or supports that are in place. Blaming addiction on a lack of housing and therapy is a trope , addiction is an extremely complex mental illness with a variety of causes ( genetic predisposition, mental illness, trauma, societal pressures and a host of other reasons ) Drug abuse is usually the start of the problems, not the other way around --- They lose their home, their family, their jobs You're clearly passionate about the issue which I respect, but you've fallen into the same trap that many do, that assume compassion is always the correct solution. ( It's not ) And surely by your own admission, you can see that the more money we dump into harm reduction sites, narcan and other forms of enabling drug abuse doesn't help - at all --- it just overloads our healthcare system and enables the spread of this crisis . Go into any emergency room in Vancouver, it's the same as Toronto - 90% of the people there are in the middle of a drug/mental health crisis
I spent three years at covenant house Vancouver myself. I’m glad we’re both still here - truly. Obviously our pathways have diverged. I’ve been to abstinence based addiction tx 5x, eating disorder tx 2x, and involuntarily committed more times than I can count. My experiences in institutions are what prompted me to ultimately get a few grad degrees in medical sociology, and to pursue work in policy: for me and many others, the trauma of not being given choices (or even language to describe our inner worlds outside of biomedical psychiatry) are what drive chaotic and compulsive drug use. Paradoxically, I’ve been abstinent from alcohol and drugs for many years precisely because I opted out of traditional treatment/12 step models of addiction. Best wishes. I’m open to constructive dialogue, but will likely turn of notifications for this particular thread.
Literal addiction science and statistics disagree with you and it’s clear you’ve never read a single paper on addictions.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. I’ve lived in the area for about a decade and the decline in the last couple of years is extreme. I’ve tried to change my routes whenever possible - if I’m walking south I’ll walk down Bay to avoid Church or Yonge, I’ll duck into the Hudson Bay building and walk the path through to the Manulife Center to avoid Bloor, I’ll head up to Yorkville to grab coffee, etc. if you ever need a walking buddy, message me.
I walk to the gym every morning near Yonge bloor, not a long term solution but if you wanted a walking buddy the next few weeks let me know, if the timing works out I’d be happy to. 38 y/o married man with a baby girl myself, makes me sick thinking of this happening to my wife with her
I always think about this article arguing that when the street drug of choice switched from heroin to meth, less people died but more people experienced psychosis. I think that could help explain the change in homeless people's behaviour. https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lopez-meth-homeless-20190629-story.html
I honestly considered this was the case because opioid users tend to be nodding off and aren’t agitated. However of course all of this is also linked to psychosis and trauma, so who knows. Also they can get very unpleasant if they are looking for their next fix.
Im so very sorry this is happening to you. TPSJust want to offer a tip...a guy who teaches personal safety told me bear spray may be illegal but Axe spray isn't.
We need to criminalize verbal assault right away. If these clowns thought that it was illegal things would be different. Plus, there is no downside at all
The lowest rung of society hates and yells at everyone. Just walk fast and move on. Your government wants to give them free drugs instead of fixing the issue. Good thing the feds told them to take that idea and stick it. Oh and your police force thinks if you're a victim of crime, you should make it easier for criminals so you don't get hurt in the process of criminal shit. Welcome to Canada.
I've from a racial minority as well (East Asian) and am queer/have a girlfriend. When this happens I walk as fast as I can and duck into the nearest cafe or shop. Most of the time they're just moving in one direction/forward and once you get out of their sight/outside of perception zone they can't see you. Stay safe and take care!
Since you mentioned bear/dog spray: it is absolutely legal to carry dog spray and use it in self defence as long as you don’t carry it with the specific intent of using it for self defence. All you have to do is tell the police that you carry it because you saw an unchained dog or rabid raccoon in your neighborhood, and they will leave you alone. Regarding use, as long as you stick to the above, it is legally considered a weapon of opportunity. You will not be prosecuted for spraying an aggressive homeless man as a minority woman with a stroller.
I am so sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately, it's just the nature of certain areas of Toronto. I wish it wasn't the way it is, but it is. I'm a white, cishet male, born, raised and living in Toronto for 40 years, and I've been called "fa\*\*ot" countless times by different randos on the streets of this city. And these are people of different ethnicities and genders too, not just one type. Been threatened for not having a cigarette, for not having change. Been called "gweilo", "maricon", "whiteboy", "ret\*rd", "b\*tch", "deaf", "stupid", "asshole", "idiot", "slow", the list goes on. It's just city life, unfortunately. So don't take it personally; I learned not to. And yeah, it's really not specific to women and minorities; it can happen to anybody. And although I am not in agreement with you on criminalizing verbal assault, I am in agreement with you on criminalizing violent drug users and decriminalizing instruments of self-defence.
This so so scary. I'm sorry this is happening to you. As much as I'm enraged, I don't know how to help you directly. I'll pray and hope that it doesn't happen again to you or anyone.
My office is in the area and I deal with potentially aggressive and unwell people every time I go to get a coffee . It's gotten a lot sadder around there than it used to be a few years ago. I'm sorry you have been experiencing this. I have not had any issues but it could in part be because I am a large man. It must be scary particularly with your child with you. The city and police won't do much. I rarely even see police around there except for paid duty officers who watch construction.
I used to commute on the TTC with my daughter from when she was 1.5 to 4. Bloor/Yonge was the worst. I hated going through that station, and dreaded it. We took Line 2 in the west end every day, and many things happened on that stretch too, including sitting next to a ranting man playing with a nasty set of pronged brass knuckles while my child slept on me, meaning I could not move fast. I felt very vulnerable. I got off as soon as I could, and I do that freely now - I just leave, and am a little late. I'm sorry it is like this - I see you, and hear you.
You’re right that there should be police presence around the bloor-Yonge corridor. It’s probably the most high traffic area around Toronto.
Please contact city officials, MP, whoever you can. The streets are crawling with drig addicts and mentally unwell people. City, provincial and Federal policies are failing us. The harm reduction approach to drug addiction does not work and only harms the rest of us.
It's this kind of shit that's going to make me lose my mind and vote Conservative one day. These kinds of people just need to be off the f'ing street. I don't care where they go or what happens to them (within reason, obviously) but I am sick of people feeling they have to cede our streets to druggies and nutcases.
Couldn’t agree more! Make crimes ILLEGAL again, and make the streets safer. I don’t care where they go ask long as children and families are able to walk the streets without fear.
> It's this kind of shit that's going to make me lose my mind and vote Conservative one day. This has been me. 3x Trudeau voter. As much as I was giddy to be an ABC voter in 2015 and get out Harper, I would trade a lot to go back to 2014 Canada. Crime should be illegal.
Sorry you're experiencing this but a few things: * This doesn't *just* happen to you. * You're not *targeted,* these people are off their rocker. * Continue to contact everyone you can, but temper your expectations. They're almost certainly already aware and, having no travel or residence in the spots affected, sadly don't give a shit. This has been an issue for decades (though on the rise notably since the pandemic especially). Not really sure how that's supposed to comfort you. The below, on the other hand, needs to be tackled separately. * decriminalizing using bear spray/dog spray in situations where you fear a risk to your safety You mention verbal assault but there's reasonably no such thing. Assault and criminality have legal implications that are not being met here. Your legal entitlement as a Canadian who is called a bitch, told to go fuck yourself, or just about anything you, myself, or anyone here has endured is just so: endure ramblings from someone who is episodic. Death threats are handled differently but given the population and frequency of these events taken with about as much seriousness (awful, agreed). Yes, it's terrifying and some people (yes, often women) have been physically harmed -- there's no dancing around that. Physical assault of your own, however, of spraying someone who is a lunatic or otherwise without cause for a physical defense, *is* assault. Defense needs to be proportionate and even then you face an uphill battle for legal defense since the law does not love to side with preemptive fear-based action. Ignore them, move on, try and avoid heavily affected areas or travel in groups is sadly about the only safe wisdom you can actively practice. Unfortunately much of the core is affected by individuals of this precise description so avoidance isn't always possible. Your experiences have happened to me more times than I can count and I'm a young white male with an athletic build; it's not a racial issue, not a sexual/gendered issue, and not solely an issue of accompaniment/minors. It's an issue with the steady descent into madness we seem to be experiencing from a wide variety of issues too big to discuss in any single post. Being screamed as a Torontonian now feels like the little leagues at this point for anyone who has lived here long enough -- I don't say that as a glib suggestion you 'live with it' more than to just point to how common it really is, terrible as it may be. People have threatened to stab me, I've been hit and spit on, had cigarettes tossed at me, I've had near-misses dodging public masturbation with people ejaculating on the streets, the guy who slept in my building's garbage chute told me he would set my door on fire but decided to opt for breaking bottles, screaming at the top of their lungs, and chain smoking before they too passed out, hand down their pants, in the common hallway (where were police or security you ask? Fuck if I know, I called both). Toronto, like a lot of dense metro areas in Canada, is in dire straights with people in crisis and the rest of us left to have empathy and understand (fuck that, this shit is not normal or safe). I wish I had a solution for you. Mine was to move out of the core -- my family's safety felt like it relied on it -- but that's not an option everyone has or wants to exercise.
The only reasonable reply here. I feel for OP, I really do - I live a block from Casey House on Jarvis so I know all too well how bad this area has gotten. Fuck, there was a shooting here around the corner last night at 12:30AM. But you are right - OP isn’t being targeted. These are all, for the most part, empty threats from mentally ill people. If it was the same person doing it to her, then she might have a case but from what I gather, it’s all randoms. OP - if you can, move out of the area. There are other neighbourhoods downtown that will have what you are looking for and much safer.
I agree with you. All of the same has happened to me. We have small kids and go anywhere with them. Moss park. TTC. Anywhere. I think the difference is familiarity and comfort experiencing the ‘abuse’. This is probably the thing I recognize the most from these comments. Everyone seems to be commenting like they live in a war zone and Toronto is the most dangerous place on earth. It is not. I have female family members who work with unhoused with addiction issues. They don’t experience the same fear. They don’t recommend making eye contact a block away and then trying to run for your life like many comments here are implying. I just go about my day. Say hi. Smile. If they seem unwell I completely ignore eye contact and keep walking. I do the same with my kids. It’s unfortunate but feeling in danger doesn’t usually match up with being in danger.
Exactly. I feel like the majority of people commenting Toronto has become Gotham are transplants from smaller towns or cities that are safer but more conservative. I’ve lived in the city for most of my life and have seen the gradual rise in homelessness and mental health issues. I have also lived in Vancouver for a year and literally worked in East Hastings and we are nowhere near the mess that that city is in. We SHOULD expect better from this city but we need to face reality - until all levels of government finally decides to give a shit, we all need to be street smarts when navigating the city.
I work in healthcare. I will tell you right now engaging with mentally unwell people as a healthcare worker, with a badge and a team, is very different than doing it by yourself with a baby.
I was previously at Yonge/Carlton. I lost count of how many shelters were in the area and while I absolutely bear no ill will to others struggling it doesn't eliminate the impacts they've had on me. I didn't include it above but I've seen no less than a dozen people assaulted with a haymaker -- no cause even. One that stands out was some dude running up behind someone I was walking behind (minding their own business, listening to music), the victim got absolutely clocked and the perp just kept running. Another was from someone unwell on the TTC who was screaming at everyone on the subway. Would go up to them, scream HEY FUCK YOU, move onto the next when they were ignored. Did the same to me and I ignored them. The poor bastard beside me got the same but they chose to reply "good morning". That was it. *Good morning.* He was immediately assaulted. *See something? Say something!* and pressing cute yellow bars only goes so far. Again, the perp fled when the doors open immediately and the only option was to support the victims, provide a witness statement and then move on throughout the day waiting for the next shit we're forced to witness or be victimized by. No, there's no easy solution but whatever we're left with now as human beings forced to live alongside this isn't ideal either. On one hand I do not expect a Minority Report style policing scenario that stops crime in its tracks but people being victimized with no plausible end or accountability for those doing this is a terrifying and bleak reality.
Thanks! I appreciate this and i am so sorry you had to endure so much.. genuinely awful and I’m glad you left. Maybe it’s not racial - that’s really just my desperate attempt to understand why other people say this doesn’t happen to them. I understand that moving is the only real solution. My hope is that there are some things we / I can advocate for on a community level. Isn’t that the point of a democracy??
I really would hope to think that it's the point and I still vote accordingly (mental health supports, outreach, addiction services, healthcare) but I'd be lying if I wasn't rapidly turning pessimistic to the situation at hand, insular, and more focused on my personal safety. I know few homeless people are threatening, let alone dangerous, in the manners we experience but it's hard to know until it happens and who wants it to happen to them? My heart goes out to the outreach teams and healthcare in the trenches. In so far as understanding these crimes? I gave up on trying long ago; maybe it's a good thing we don't understand. I can only have so much compassion about someone's circumstances before I need to worry about my own/family's safety. Toronto, for me, used to be an incredible and fun place but the pandemic's erasure of night life and services left desperation on the streets without much meaningful assistance for vulnerable populations or the residents who live around them. It sort of crushed the experience for me. I still like to visit (the nostalgia in my old haunts just sings to my heart), Toronto in many ways is still my home and I was born and raised there, but it's not a place I feel comfortable in as much as I used to. I lay that solely at the feet of every level of government who has allowed life to become far less livable than it used to be. It is different and only by acknowledging that will government services -- and the lives they impact -- improve.
It’s nothing to do with race. They do this to all women period. Men too no doubt. But women - and teen boys actually, I think because they’re small therefore easier targets even in a psychotic mind - especially. Sorry but we are not prioritized whatsoever. Supporting initiatives that address drugs and homelessness will help.
That is terrible. More terrible that it seems to be fine as far as politicians are concerned. Didn't the mayor just announce today that the city was changing it's policies to focus more on support, and less on enforcement, with respect to homeless people? Thirty or forty years ago, it was expected that if someone did what this person did to you, the police would respond, and administer him a beating. Since that time, we have moved away from accepting the police beating people who engage in anti-social behavior. Now, the focus is on people focused policies, which in practice means that people who wander the streets screaming and threatening others, face no consequences. This comes directly at the expense of people like you, who are innocent, and must endure abuse. My opinion is that we have gone too far in terms of allowing anti-social behavior. We have prioritized the independence of people who are aggressive and anti-social, over the safety and well-being of innocent people. I think it would be reasonable for the police to punish people who engage in anti-social, aggressive behavior. But not everyone feels that way, evidently lots of people feel that the status quo is fine. They propose more progressive solutions, such as more subsidized housing. Unfortunately, these solutions do not work. We spend way more money on social programs than we did forty years ago. But the anti-social behavior keeps getting worse.
Even 10 years ago, the progressive position was believe and support victims, denounce violence and threats against women, and ensure attackers face consequences (well before conviction, or even regardless of whether charges are laid). Now, as evidenced in this thread, the "progressive" position is victim blaming: OP owes her attacker more compassion, is at fault for trying to walk in this area, and does not deserve to walk the streets with being threatened. "Progressives" have gone off their collective rocker.
Is it the same person doing this or is it multiple people?
Different people, different parts of the same general area Also happened on the TTC - when I was with my daughter - but I don’t use the TTC anymore because of it.
Dont take it personally, nothing to do with you and all to do with them. Lots of drugs on the streets right now.
Contact the media...your story should be told...
I'm not a racial minority but a friend of mine who is says she wear headphones that are turned off so she can still hear everything but it looks like she's listening to something. A common safety tip I hear is to make yourself look preoccupied. If you're wearing headphones and moving around fast, you look too busy to harass
I honestly don’t know what’s busier looking than having a stroller???😭
Hey OP, if ever let me know and we can meet up. I’d love to see them try that while I’m there. Sorry you’re going through such bs.
Can you carry pepper spray? Also look into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, my kiddo does it and he can take someone day in a couple of moves, it'll help with your self confidence. A lot of the girls in the class are amazing and beat the boys despite being much smaller / lighter. So sorry this happens to you :( I'd be so shaken.
I sympathize with women and kids because I experience and see this all the time. I'm going to be completely honest, the only way to truly avoid this experience is to move out of the core of the city. I've noticed this in the core of every city I've visited and while some are better than others, it's almost part of the experience of living in the city. When I personally moved out of the core, I rarely got approached unless I was on the streetcar going into the city. Best of luck OP and stay safe.
This is generally why people move to the suburbs. Less of this. I am so sorry.
> mentally unwell people tend to be nicer to women/kids because they don't view us at threats No they prey on who they perceive to be weaker people. Mentally ill people bother me far less since I started going to the gym and Martial Arts. And as a brown minority there is going to be more racist incidents along with the homeless people due to the divided country. Are you able to walk with your neighbour, husband, brother, father, etc.?
OP I’m so sorry for what you’ve experienced and I hate that you’re the one who needs to alter your behaviour when you’ve done nothing wrong. You said Yonge/Bloor…that’s a really chaotic intersection. Bay/Bloor is much less chaotic even though it’s so close. Is it possible for you to either use the underground path to walk from Yonge to Bay Station (I think there’s an elevator that will take you up to Bay St), there’s also stairs up to Bellair St in Yorkville which are both generally more calm. Most of the unhoused people in that neighborhood stick to themselves and it might be easier. St. Thomas is a very quiet street that you can use to get down to Charles St and go east or west completely avoiding that intersection. If you go west, you’ll find Museum station. Again, I’m so sorry that you need to adjust but I understand needing to take care of your immediate safety. Hope this helps! xx
Sorry this happened to you. Write to the city, the more letters the better, with the way things are going, they need a whole “End South Asian racism” campaign (as they have for East Asians https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/community/toronto-for-all/anti-east-asian-racism/). Edit: This is their email- [email protected]
Honestly... nobody in this country is going to help you. The police/authorities/government don't care. I was living in a wealthy area of Vancouver (Yaletown) and right on the corner someone got stabbed to death walking to work at 8am in the morning by someone he didn't know. He was a white male and was stabbed by a minority homeless female. In another case, a man was with his wife and 4 year old child getting a coffee at Starbucks at 2pm on a Sunday a block away from our apartment. A guy lit of a joint next to him and the man asked him to not smoke it close to his young daughter. He was stabbed to death in front of his young child and wife while people filmed it. The man who lit the joint and stabbed him was of South Asian (Indian) descent. Horrific stuff. I used to live right where you are in Toronto at Yonge and Bloor/The Annex for many years. It wasn't that bad, but recently it has deteriorated a lot. I doubt it's your ethnicity.. it's just life in Canada these days where drugs are out of control and police are useless as you have seen. The crazy cost of living is causing mental health to rapidly deteriorate and what you are experiencing is the result. Your best bet is to stay extra vigilant when you are out in the streets and try to stay away from sketchy looking people. Or just leave Canada.. because I don't think it's gonna get any better. I'm thinking of doing exactly that myself.
Do you know if there are any initiatives to make communities safer for non-violent citizens? I don’t understand why this is tolerated … like I understand at some level that the decision-makers live in gated communities and don’t care, but I don’t really GET it.
Frankly, I believe there is a concerted effort on a Global scale to destabilize Western Democracies. It’s the same pattern in the United States, in the UK, in Australia, Germany, France, etc. There are a number of wealthy people that are benefiting from the status quo who are pushing this agenda of drug decriminalization and reducing penalties for crime. Canada has become a heaven for money laundering, auto theft, petty theft, drug dealers, and mortgage fraud on an epic scale and nobody is doing anything about it. Quite the opposite.. our government just keeps making the situation worse. There are neighbourhood watch programs in a few areas but they don’t do much. You can’t even defend your home/family in this country from a violent brake in. You will go to jail. The laws here are completely insane and offer more protection to criminals than they do the victims of their crimes. I dunno.. like I said.. pretty much giving up on this country after being here 30 years. It’s completely collapsing.
I have lived in Canada for 65 years, yes what you wrote is too true. I get chased down the street, called names, things thrown at me all on my way to work at six am. I live in Ottawa.
From the GTA. Was not prepared for how Ottawa had changed when I visited last spring. Stayed in the Market and was stunned by the open drug use, and assertive panhandling (and I mean approaching people sitting on the patio enjoying their evening 5/6 times an hour). Didn’t feel unsafe but was on edge walking for sure.
Visited Ottawa recently and the open drug use and sketchiness in the streets is worse than Toronto. It was like 3-4 to a streetcorner!
Yep.. it’s insane.. happening in almost every major Canadian city now.
I've lived in Toronto about 20 years now, and Yonge St from Queen to Bloor has always been the worst area for getting accosted by crazies. I suspect it's because people who want to beg or scam tourists seek out the area, so it attracts a more obnoxious group. Every other neighborhood I've been to is better. Even the areas that have lots of homeless or mentally ill people, they usually leave you alone. This hasn't changed in 20 years, and if anything is just getting worse. I'd advise moving anywhere else in the city.
Shaking my head when reading this! Yonge/bloor is yorkville?! One of the most expensive neighborhoods. How could it get so bad
"Progressive" policies. Divert every criminal case whenever drug addiction or mental illness is involved. Even where diversion is not possible, give the most minimally restricted and time-limited sentence possible. Even where someone has a rap sheet of 50 violent convictions, give them bail as a default right. Prevent the police from talking to anyone on the street and having a presence, absent proof of a crime to investigate. Spread out homeless shelters around the city to avoid concentrating folks in one area. Open up supervised injection sites, so everyone knows in which alley to find drug dealers, and put them in the most transit-accessible locations so people can roam far around the city once high. Don't enforce fares for "unwell" people because they need their money for drugs. Don't remove them from turning the TTC into their personal home because that would be cruel. Don't arrest them for shouting racial epithets or threatening minorities because they don't mean what they're saying, it's just the illness. Don't arrest them for attacking someone because the Crown will always offer a plea deal because their backlog is so high and agree to just a token 1 day sentence. Need I go on?
Hey so sorry you had to face this. Please consider moving out of this area to a suburb, regardless of what you hear they are safer for bringing up children. Toronto police doesn’t care about safety of visible minorities and the anti immigrant rhetoric on social media adds fuel to the mental health crises and drug crises that the city is facing. Suburbs like Markham, Richmond Hill, Pickering etc. are better for families as there are less entrepreneurial opportunities for the homeless.
I think the best place to raise a family is always the suburbs (Markham, Richmond hill, Vaughan), downtown always has the highest concentration of crazies If this is your only option, try getting a male accompaniment (husband, any guy friend), people won't pick on you if there's another guy watching over
We moved to Toronto in 2020 looking for that ideal city life too... and left last year for Oakville. We'll be back when the kids are grown but for now? No thanks. Sorry this happened to you. It's bonkers
I’m a (petite) Asian female who lived in that neighborhood for five years just before the pandemic hit. I would also walk around at night (between 8-10pm) and generally I felt safe, even though I have had the occasional encounters with mentally unstable persons esp lounging outside the McDonalds spot on Yonge. I’ve been back a few times since after the pandemic and it looks like the area has changed a bit. It’s an area with lots of students though so I guess it depends on which part of Bloor/Yonge you find yourself in. As a short-term solution, find an alternative route to daycare. Long-term solution, if this continues, you might have to try to move to another neighborhood. Things I would not care so much about as a single woman is now always a factor with my 3-year old toddler. I totally get your worries. I now live in the St Lawrence market area and it’s a safe area for those with young children if you still want to be in a walkable part of the city. Of course, yes, send all sorts of messages to the MPs and the mayor as well.
Thanks! I appreciate you. Unfortunately I can’t leave this area for now because I’m in a special building, but maybe one day!!
Oh my GOD! I am so sorry this has happened to you and your child - and on multiple occasions! This is really terrible, just outrageous harassment. It SHOULD be illegal to shout and threaten people on the street like this. I would be scared to leave my home. You are doing the right things - I hope you get the support and response that is required. No one should feel unsafe walking in Toronto. I hope everything improves in your neighbourhood - and throughout our usually fair city.
I’m sorry you are experiencing this. It’s horrible to not feel safe going about your life, and with your child. The number of unstable and troubled people on the TTC is alarming. Remember that the vast majority of people are also just going about their days - but it’s so jarring to be accosted and yelled at and feel worried someone will harm you. What you probably already do, but we always do now, is leave the vehicle and wait for the next one whenever anyone is doing anything out of the typical. Having been targeted by a verbal assault, I am not staying in any situation that feels the slightest bit off. If possible I wouldn’t avoid the TTC as it will make it harder to go back - but I’m sorry you have experienced this.
It’s not just a feeling. A man came up to me, leaned into me, and told me he would punch me in the face Thank you, I have actually decided never to use the ttc lol. There’s no escape there. But I appreciate the advice!
This breaks my heart, OP, I am so sorry you’re going through this. I wish I could be your personal bodyguard and walk with you wherever you needed. Most of all I wish you never have to experience anything like that, especially with your young child. Is there anyone within your area that you could do daycare drop up with like a buddy system?
So sad to see all the comments here just say - hey it's a city, it's downtown, ignore, let these guys shout and hope that they don't harm you...instead of yes - police needs to give them a verbal warning, it's not these guys are one off case, they probably do this to 5 other folks every day, so instead of saying let's get these guys off our streets, all I see is comments normalizing this shit... My full support to you unfortunately you can't do anything except ignore them, the city doesn't care about these folks, the police doesn't care till they turn violent and people are ok with this being normal. If you can - ignore them, carry a pepper spray although I would strongly advise against using it since the blame would fall on you either way... Best you can do for your mental health and safety, move closer to suburbs or family areas in downtown... All the best
>**So sad to see all the comments here just say** - **hey it's a city, it's downtown, ignore**, let these guys shout and hope that they don't harm you >My full support to you unfortunately **you can't do anything except ignore them** ????
I empathize with your situation and your concerns and the effect these concerns have had on your daily life. I expect that my comment will be downvoted as it is hard to seem to defend such ugly and irrational people as you describe when you are so articulate in your depiction of these incidents. However, I am really concerned about some of your proposed “solutions”. What is your definition of “verbal assault” and what kind of penalty do you think is reasonable and proportionate for this? “I will punch you in the face” is an overt threat of violence and is already a crime. So, too, are threats to kill you which you mentioned at the end of your post. However, all the rest of the utterances you describe are not threats. Yelling at you to leave or to “get the fuck out of here” are not threats of violence. How would we criminalize them? What would meet the definition and what wouldn’t? I don’t want to live in a city/country where you could end up with a criminal record for telling someone to “fuck off”. That seems to make it way too easy for the state to potentially abuse its power against whomever it doesn’t like. Similarly, there are already considerable provisions for self defense as a defense to prosecution under the criminal code (section 34). The only thing that allowing people to carry bear spray around to use in this type of situation would do is to make it much more likely the other person also has such a weapon. Also, if you would have used bear spray against the person whose yelling at you to leave caused you to cry in fear, I think you would generally have a hard time legally convincing a court that using a weapon to inflict physical harm is a proportionate response to verbal threat (if there even were actual threats).
Context matters here, no? If I tell someone to “fuck off” because we’re in an argument and then I got about my day, it shouldn’t be illegal to do so. But if I decide at random to invade someone’s personal space and tell them to “fuck off” closely for no particular reason? Yeah, that person should probably be off the streets an in an asylum.
This is my take on it as well. If you are approaching strangers and threatening them, you need to be away from the public ASAP, because you *are* a danger to everybody else, and nobody can predict or control what it is that's stopping you from actually following through on your threats. I've had someone threaten to kill me, completely out of nowhere on a subway train. Just walked up, told me "you're dead, just watch", threateningly stared at me for a few seconds, then strolled away as if nothing had happened -- then repeated it to a few other people on the train, all of whom were pretty shaken up over it. That person needs to be somewhere that he can't just decide one day to actually whip out a knife and follow through with his threats to harm random subway passengers.
No eye contact… wear shades if you have to. Once you engage eye contact, it’s an invitation for these crazies to start conversing with you. They ignore people that don’t respond to them…
Gosh I am so sorry to hear this sis. As a 240 lb man, I wish I could walk with you and keep the crazies at bay.
I appreciate this ! My husband wishes too! But he’s at work!
Ugh! I’m so sorry! This is terrible.
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Welcome to downtown and downtownish Toronto where unpredictable, strung out, aggressive homeless people abound. With people popping off guns and Roman candles in the streets, there’s not much cops are going to do to solve this problem. They can tell them to move on but they come back. Realistically there’s no where to place the drug addicted or mentally ill homeless. They can be sent to detox for a couple of days but they’re back in the usual haunts shortly after getting out. I think your options to get to daycare are to walk with others in your area, drive, or have your partner take your child. Or move. I grew up off Pape just north of the Danforth, so Toronto/East York but not downtown or downtownish proper. And while it was common to see a familiar homeless crew on the Danforth, it wasn’t common just a 6 blocks north. There’s always been homeless downtown, there will always be homeless downtown. You’ll have to learn to cope with it or move away from Yonge and Bloor. And honestly, with the amount of used and broken needles I see on the streets - all. The. Time., it’s not great. I mean every time I’m south of Rosedale station, I see at least, at least one used needle and at least 1 unpredictable, erratic homeless person. Last month I’m walking by Church and Carlton and there’s a homeless guy with his shirt open, pant zipper open, junk hanging out, mumbling walking up Church. This is an endemic part of downtown.
I'm sorry to hear this. I've lived in the area for a decade and never had any bad experiences like this. I'm a guy though. It's especially disappointing that you're too afraid to walk down the street anymore. Would you mind my asking where specifically these 2 experiences happened?
One was in front of Chipotle. The other was in front of Chapters/Indigo. The other was in the TTC but I can’t remember which station. (There were others in the TTC, more like glaring at me and almost approaching me, but I honestly feel like I’ve repressed some of it because this was when I first moved and I literally was so terrified)
Ouch. Sorry about that. You mentioned needing to goto Rabba to get milk but are too scared to go outside. That's very unfortunate. I'd be happy to walk you there if it helps. Though I completely get that you might not feel very comfortable around men who are strangers right now so no pressure. Btw the Rabba north of Church and Bloor is right next to a kinda sketchy area. But the other two are very safe.
Thanks so much, I appreciate you! My husband does groceries now, generally speaking (I just wanted milk asap for my coffee, but I ended up drinking it black). My major issue other than anxiety is that I used to live in Saudi Arabia and one of the things I love about Canada is that women can use public spaces without stigma. But now I feel like I am trapped all over again and it makes me super upset because it’s just a different form of repression of women.
that's unfortunate. i've personally never felt anything in the decade i've lived in this neighborhood but i guess it might be different for women. not to be presumptuous but do you and your husband by any chance goto the mosque on yonge just north of the library? if so i might know him :)
I work right there. There does seem to be an increase in mentally unstable people in the area yelling various things. After a lifetime of living in the city, I pay them no mind, don’t make eye contact or engage in any way and go about my business but I understand that is harder if you haven’t been in the city long. In my experience, the fear that one of these people will try to hurt or interact with you is far greater than the actual likelihood of them doing so. You have some ideas here but I also think you want to be careful not to allow fear to keep you and your daughter from enjoying all of what the city has to offer.
Contact your councilor, and report each instance to the Police. Sorry to say but Toronto is becoming a hell hole and downtown is already there.
Omg ...that's so awful . As a Torontonian I am sorry . This city ain't what it use to be anymore...
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Thanks!! i appreciate you. The tetris suggestion made me laugh ❤️
2 words: pepper spray Protect ya neck! It’s crazy out there
My Muslim friend would wear a sun hat instead of her hijab in some situations. I know it's not ideal, but it might help you blend in more when it comes to intolerant druggies.
I'm sorry. The city has let all its citizens down. From failing law-abiding people to letting the most vulnerable fall through the cracks. We need rehab beds and psychologists to help those on the street struggling with addiction and mental health, not more safe injection sites. There's so much more random violence on our streets, we all need to look out for one another.
I’m with everyone in this sub, I’m so sorry this happened. This isn’t a solution but rather an idea in the meantime, could you and your daughter perhaps listen to music while going through the area that these events have occurred? I’m a women and I know it’s important to be aware of surroundings but in moments where it’s likely for verbal as opposed to physical assault to occur, I wear headphones and turn them up louder when walking through areas of homelessness (like union station for example)
Where are you walking that you encounter this? I ask because I moved to Yonge-Bloor recently and I am always walking around the area with my 3 year old and have not encountered any incidents. Sure we’ve walked by some homeless or mentally unwell people but none of them have interacted with me in any way.
i guess that's where the racial minority part plays in (assuming that you aren't one)
They look like Jeremy Irons, so.
Carry a travel size aerosol hairspray or sunscreen or any other beauty product with you. Use it as mace. I hate that I have to carry a can with me and that I have to suggest it. Til we're allowed a real way to protect ourselves/get away I'll keep using this loophole
The police are SO full of shit. If anyone talked to them like that; after tasering and beating the shit out of said person; they would charge them with something. Toronto police are just lazy asses.
An ice machine in Antarctica is more useful than Toronto police
Pepper spray those dummies. In all seriousness though, wear a whistle, it'll likely scare them off once it starts going off as it'll draw attention to the situation obviously.
The whistle is a good idea. Be loud and visible and they'll back off
this is a wild post filled with crazy generalizations and demands
Your not be targeted. Anyone that even glancea at these people will get their anger and hate. 99% of these people are harmless. Ignore and move on. I know it's not right that we have to deal with it but if you want to live in the city without being sheltered it's something you have to come to terms with.
Welcome to life in Canada under the current catch and release policies. The sad reality is even if they were charged for uttering death threats they would be released the same day. There is a complete disconnect between law and order in this country unfortunately. Every large metropolis in Canada has something similar to your experience going on
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Telling someone you will punch them in the face and calling them a bitch is a bit more serious than calling someone stupid. The point is if someone is mentally unwell and verbally assaulting random passerby’s and vulnerable people they need to be removed from either that area, given meds or evaluated. If you can go around threatening to assault people with no action taken against you odds are you’ll eventually physically assault someone
Welcome to Toronto. The sketchy intersections change, but there will always be someone at a street corner yelling nonsense. My advice is ignore them and move on. It's not illegal to tell someone to fuck off, as unpleasant as it may be.
More like welcome to every major city centre in North America especially post pandemic. It could be worse and OP could be living in NYC, Chicago, LA, San Fran, Vancouver etc where homeless, drug addicts and mentally ill are even more prevalent and left alone by police than here. If you're not cut out to deal with it the only thing you can do is move to a more secluded town or city but even that isn't a guarantee of safe living because those places also tend to be littered with addicts and mentally ill just the same.
If you think this is inevitable in every major city in North America then you need to travel more.
I've been to all those cities I mentioned, some in the past 2-3 years since travel opened back up post pandemic and speaking from personal experience. If you think aggressively homeless and mentally ill are exclusive to Toronto it sounds like you're the one who needs to travel more.
File as a hate crime and try to avoid the area.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm like you and I also like doing things alone; I pretty much expect something to happen when I go out (like recently someone yelled in my ear while I was walking on Spadina). It sucks how the only solution is to work around it. I pretty much just don't go out anymore.
Complaining about crime in a Toronto subreddit?! God you're brave. Everyone else who does this gets told they're the problem by self-hating citizens who expect others to show empathy to the criminals that assault them lol. Yeah, uhhh, if you want to live in a non-mentally ill area, downtown Toronto is not the place lol. With that said, you could also get a keychain safety alarm. One that is very loud, like 100db which you could activate at a moments notice to alert others of danger and hopefully cause the aggressor to back off. Just might want to cover your 2 year olds ears to prevent hearing damage. Also, not that you should have to adjust your ways, but perhaps taking a lesser used back street would be safer instead of Yonge St where the drifters congregate more.