"Mr. Customer, unfortunately I cannot and will not be able to move $6,000 on price. Nor could I ever imagine you being happy with doing business with us if I could- how anyone could respect a dealership that can drop $6k on a used car just like that is beyond me. So, if that's it with our deal, I'll refund your deposit today so you can resume your shopping, and we'll resume taking appointments on the car. I wish you the best of luck!"
Same outcome- I'm dropping you as a potential customer. But way different execution. No childish antics, lying, or emotions.
Dropping you as a customer isn't the issue. How they did it, and the tantrum they through to do it, was. At a $6k divide I too wouldn't want to pursue anything more. It's too much- we're talking different languages, and it's no longer a good use of anyone's time to continue.
Hopefully you don't arrive to the 2nd dealership and find a $6k addendum of non-negotiable addons.
While doing your research, what was the market pricing looking like for this vehicle? If Dealer 1 was within the market and Dealer 2 was $6000 less than all comparable options, it’s likely a too good to be true unicorn. Many dealers charge mandatory add ons to jack up their prices and I wouldn’t be surprised if Dealer 2 did the same.
Why not? They went against the deal. Should have lost the deposit, too. Are you ok with people agreeing to a deal then changing their minds and you paying for it?
Deposits are refundable in pretty much every common law statute for good reason.
It serves as an indicator of intent to purchase, but shouldn’t bind the customer to anything, because frequently one thing or another does come up on both sides
This is a US deal, and it varies by state. More states I deal with/in than not allow it to be binding. I disagree. It should indeed be binding just like a deposit in any other type of deal. Nothing else comes up other than failure for the dealership to secure financing for the buyer, which they should find out very quickly. In that case they should refund the deposit.
I wouldn't feel bad, this happens a lot and the dealership handled it shitty. If I was the dealership I would question why it was 6,000$ cheaper. You did your homework that I would be frantically doing to find the exact car and do your homework for you while on the phone with you making sure it was apples to apples.
If it is, I'm not dropping my pants for a 6000$ discount (not many cars have that profit now days anyway so probably not doable) and I'd congratulate you on a good deal and refund your money. Say thank you tell you if you know anyone in the market save my number.
Dealerships don't remove their cars from their website until that car drives over the curb for this reason. I don't know why they acted snotty.
You're in the clear man.
Saw an article the other day, apparently the Mach-E is stacking up in some areas. So it's entirely possible demand has gone soft and the first dealer just owns it for a lot more than the second dealer. Hey, so long as they have a buyer at the higher price, more power to them.
So since curious minds wanted to know...
Mobile inspector gave it a clean bill of health, no surprise fees, I think this is a clean deal.
Deposit is in and I'm waiting to hear when they've got the paperwork.
I think it's real.
Or maybe I'll have a real sad update in a couple of weeks.
Fingers crossed
You're both wrong with the dealer bearing like 70% of the blame and you bearing about 30% of it.
There's no real excuse for how the dealer (the original dealer) acted. it is JUST business and this isn't the first and won't be the last time something like this happens.
You, on the other hand, broke your word. That isn't illegal, it is just shitty. You engaging, placing a deposit, signalling your intentions, etc, was the time you committed to buying their car and you should have stopped shopping.
This is sort of the reverse of them selling the car out from under you just because someone came long who wanted to pay more - similar, not exactly. They "had a deal" you committed with money and with words and then you tried to twist the entire thing when a "better" deal came along.
Again, it is just business, I understand both sides, you're both assbags.
This is such nonsense. It's not a deal until the papers are signed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with shopping around while you're trying to work out a deal. They're probably pissed because you found an exact comp, and they can't figure out how to spin it to make it look like a bad deal.
Deposits are so meaningless that my dealer doesn't even take them. In fact, I believe most states have laws that require deposits to be returned upon request.
Imagine comparing this to looking for a job. You interview, tell them you're interested, and a better offer comes in. Every salesperson in that building takes the better job.
Unfortunately for the dealer, sure, but that's the nature of sales.
NTA.
“Deposits are so meaningless” 100% agree with this. But you take them as some small amount of glue, it will take some people out of the market not OP, isn’t like the dealer stopped working leads on the car either.
If you shake hands on it and leave a deposit, you’re committing to buying the car. I know it’s different in other jurisdictions, but here in Alberta a deposit can most definitely be non-refundable.
If you back out of our deal because you found another one cheaper, we’re keeping your deposit.
Edit: accidentally said refundable instead of non-refundable at first.
Unless there is something in the contract that has been triggered to turn it from a refundable to non-refundable deposit, that's a pretty garbage approach.
We have everyone who leaves a deposit sign a form stating they understand that the deposit is non-refundable. It’s known and understood before we collect any deposit.
Kia, Hyundai, Nissan, and Mitsubishi… lol
The bottom of the barrel stores customers hate dealing with the most
Maybe non-refundable deposits are part of the reason why. Terrible approach, that at the end of the day only serves to alienate the client base and drive away business
You conveniently left out Honda to better fit your narrative. We also seem to be doing just fine as the dealer group continues to grow.
Tell me this, why should a deposit be refundable and what is it’s purpose if it is refundable?
Your original post wasn't clear, as it originally said they can definitely be *refundable* \- looks like you've changed it to say that they can "definitely be *non-refundable*."
As long as it's clear upfront to the buyer that it is non-refundable that is obviously a different situation and fine to keep it if they back out.
Oh yeah - I can accept some shared responsibility here. It didn't feel good, but I also followed their timeline.
I think I would have felt better if they hadn't told me they were holding the car and I was blocking a sale - it wasn't available until today. I get what they mean, but at the same time, they seem pretty confident it's gone tonight.
My intentions were definitely good - I even have a charger sitting in my kitchen that I have to return now as my badge of shame ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Appreciate the perspective
edit: typos
If the buyer hadb delayed 3+ days in coming to close the deal I doubt the dealer would have turned down a higher offer had someone come in.
Op, it's just business, and some people make it way more personal than it needs to be. Inaction, bad communication, and delay cost them a sale. It's as simple as that. They wouldn't have hesitated a moment to sell their car for $6000 more if the opportunity presented itself, and I wouldn't have blamed them.
You’re the typical customer that gets everything you want and then still feel the need to keep upping the ante. Business people know when a deal is done and idiots keep it going until it’s too late.
Not sure why you're getting down voted, this exactly sums up what happened. The dealership had reason to be annoyed but OP might be end up saving 6k. Totally worth it and just a shame for both parties this deal didn't work out.
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***Thanks for posting, /u/ryefoxfly! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.***
I have been shopping for a used Mach E, and I found one at a Ford dealership not really local, but within a reasonable drive. I contacted the dealership before they had photos, introduced myself, explained that I had zeroed in on this one, and I thought everything was probably good, including the internet price, if the car was in good shape. We exchanged photos of both of our vehicles.
I didn't need to do trade with them - I had a good offer locally w/o purchase. They matched it, and I told them I would just trade down here. Then they called back and upped the offer w/o me asking. I told them sure, I could come today. Then they tell me the car isn't ready. Also it's missing a charger, but they'd either get it from the original owner or buy me a new one.
They got me photos three days later, car still wasn't ready, but based on what I saw I agreed to a deposit.
They next day I had somebody look at the car for me, it was a good report. They tell me the charger is gone, I'm gunna have to deal with it. I remind them they had committed to a charger, and I had not seen any other one not come with a charger - okay they'll discount for the charger. Car should be ready Friday. I buy the charger, ready to go.
Thursday morning, an apples to apples (model year, AWD, extended range, same mileage, different color exterior/interior, etc) comparison comes up, $6k less. Again, no photos, but it's also a Ford dealership, so I give them a call, too. I get photos, talk through process, can I have somebody come look, etc. Basically same conversation. Photos look good, small amount of wear, but given miles, it's okay.
I call dealership 1 to try to discuss it, the sales person tells me they can't handle the conversation, puts me on hold, comes back, tries to find where it would be a bad comparison, tells me they're going to call the other dealership to find out, etc. Keeps telling me dealership 2 doesn't even have photos, etc. I send them the window sticker, car fax, even the photos dealership 2 sent me. I them her I understand this is a surprise - I promise I'm not trying to play games, that I did some leg work ahead of time to make sure this was even a serious conversation. I'm surprised too, but I need to look into it if they are firm on their price. They get into how they met my trade, and also increased it, and then comped me a charger. I don't point out that I don't need the trade with them, and never asked for the bump. She's gunna call me back tomorrow to talk it through.
Friday afternoon, I get a voicemail about refunding the deposit. I call the sales manager because I thought we were at least going to talk about it, and it's not just a hard no - far as they are concerned I broke a contract and we are done. I point out I had tried to do this sooner, but now this other vehicle is out there, and I think it's worth talking about some movement. He kinda scoffs at me - "yeah it was in the shop." He tells me they've been declining calls about it all week, that I've put them in a "sticky situation," and they have an appointment at 5PM. I tell them I don't mean to make bad blood here. I can tell the call is over, and confirm they can refund my CC.
So basically, I get it's a surprise, but if they are lined up for tonight - why all the negative energy? I thought everybody could have been level headed about this. Could I have done this better?
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"Mr. Customer, unfortunately I cannot and will not be able to move $6,000 on price. Nor could I ever imagine you being happy with doing business with us if I could- how anyone could respect a dealership that can drop $6k on a used car just like that is beyond me. So, if that's it with our deal, I'll refund your deposit today so you can resume your shopping, and we'll resume taking appointments on the car. I wish you the best of luck!" Same outcome- I'm dropping you as a potential customer. But way different execution. No childish antics, lying, or emotions. Dropping you as a customer isn't the issue. How they did it, and the tantrum they through to do it, was. At a $6k divide I too wouldn't want to pursue anything more. It's too much- we're talking different languages, and it's no longer a good use of anyone's time to continue. Hopefully you don't arrive to the 2nd dealership and find a $6k addendum of non-negotiable addons.
>Hopefully you don't arrive to the 2nd dealership and find a $6k addendum of non-negotiable addons. Me too! Here's to hoping
You better post the outcome, either way!
Will do - had somebody inspect it today, and waiting to hear back on the out the door
Everyone's waiting for your update lol
Updated as a comment - I think it's gonna work out
While doing your research, what was the market pricing looking like for this vehicle? If Dealer 1 was within the market and Dealer 2 was $6000 less than all comparable options, it’s likely a too good to be true unicorn. Many dealers charge mandatory add ons to jack up their prices and I wouldn’t be surprised if Dealer 2 did the same.
What is there to talk about? buy the $6000 less car
Bless your heart.
You're lucky they didn't keep your deposit for backing out of the deal.
That’s not how that works bud
Why not? They went against the deal. Should have lost the deposit, too. Are you ok with people agreeing to a deal then changing their minds and you paying for it?
Deposits are refundable in pretty much every common law statute for good reason. It serves as an indicator of intent to purchase, but shouldn’t bind the customer to anything, because frequently one thing or another does come up on both sides
This is a US deal, and it varies by state. More states I deal with/in than not allow it to be binding. I disagree. It should indeed be binding just like a deposit in any other type of deal. Nothing else comes up other than failure for the dealership to secure financing for the buyer, which they should find out very quickly. In that case they should refund the deposit.
I wouldn't feel bad, this happens a lot and the dealership handled it shitty. If I was the dealership I would question why it was 6,000$ cheaper. You did your homework that I would be frantically doing to find the exact car and do your homework for you while on the phone with you making sure it was apples to apples. If it is, I'm not dropping my pants for a 6000$ discount (not many cars have that profit now days anyway so probably not doable) and I'd congratulate you on a good deal and refund your money. Say thank you tell you if you know anyone in the market save my number. Dealerships don't remove their cars from their website until that car drives over the curb for this reason. I don't know why they acted snotty. You're in the clear man.
Saw an article the other day, apparently the Mach-E is stacking up in some areas. So it's entirely possible demand has gone soft and the first dealer just owns it for a lot more than the second dealer. Hey, so long as they have a buyer at the higher price, more power to them.
So since curious minds wanted to know... Mobile inspector gave it a clean bill of health, no surprise fees, I think this is a clean deal. Deposit is in and I'm waiting to hear when they've got the paperwork. I think it's real. Or maybe I'll have a real sad update in a couple of weeks. Fingers crossed
Posting so i can see an update
You can just turn on notifications for this post. You do not have to post.
Too late
indeed. someone told me once.
You're both wrong with the dealer bearing like 70% of the blame and you bearing about 30% of it. There's no real excuse for how the dealer (the original dealer) acted. it is JUST business and this isn't the first and won't be the last time something like this happens. You, on the other hand, broke your word. That isn't illegal, it is just shitty. You engaging, placing a deposit, signalling your intentions, etc, was the time you committed to buying their car and you should have stopped shopping. This is sort of the reverse of them selling the car out from under you just because someone came long who wanted to pay more - similar, not exactly. They "had a deal" you committed with money and with words and then you tried to twist the entire thing when a "better" deal came along. Again, it is just business, I understand both sides, you're both assbags.
This is such nonsense. It's not a deal until the papers are signed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with shopping around while you're trying to work out a deal. They're probably pissed because you found an exact comp, and they can't figure out how to spin it to make it look like a bad deal. Deposits are so meaningless that my dealer doesn't even take them. In fact, I believe most states have laws that require deposits to be returned upon request. Imagine comparing this to looking for a job. You interview, tell them you're interested, and a better offer comes in. Every salesperson in that building takes the better job. Unfortunately for the dealer, sure, but that's the nature of sales.
NTA. “Deposits are so meaningless” 100% agree with this. But you take them as some small amount of glue, it will take some people out of the market not OP, isn’t like the dealer stopped working leads on the car either.
If you shake hands on it and leave a deposit, you’re committing to buying the car. I know it’s different in other jurisdictions, but here in Alberta a deposit can most definitely be non-refundable. If you back out of our deal because you found another one cheaper, we’re keeping your deposit. Edit: accidentally said refundable instead of non-refundable at first.
Unless there is something in the contract that has been triggered to turn it from a refundable to non-refundable deposit, that's a pretty garbage approach.
We have everyone who leaves a deposit sign a form stating they understand that the deposit is non-refundable. It’s known and understood before we collect any deposit.
Well, you do work for a Kia dealership.
And? Our entire dealer group operates under the same principle, which encompasses Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, and Mitsubishi stores as well.
Kia, Hyundai, Nissan, and Mitsubishi… lol The bottom of the barrel stores customers hate dealing with the most Maybe non-refundable deposits are part of the reason why. Terrible approach, that at the end of the day only serves to alienate the client base and drive away business
You conveniently left out Honda to better fit your narrative. We also seem to be doing just fine as the dealer group continues to grow. Tell me this, why should a deposit be refundable and what is it’s purpose if it is refundable?
Your original post wasn't clear, as it originally said they can definitely be *refundable* \- looks like you've changed it to say that they can "definitely be *non-refundable*." As long as it's clear upfront to the buyer that it is non-refundable that is obviously a different situation and fine to keep it if they back out.
Yeah that’s my bad, sorry for the confusion.
This would be illegal in my state, for good reason.
Well it’s not here and that’s the way it should be. What the hell is the point of a deposit if not to pony up and put your money where your mouth is?
Deposits are a reservation. You can cancel reservations.
If I make an offer on a house with a deposit it and it’s accepted, and then I back out I would lose my deposit. Why should it be different with a car?
All I know is that if that dealer sold that car to someone else for 6k more while the deposit was on, I would guess you wouldn’t be okay with that
Oh yeah - I can accept some shared responsibility here. It didn't feel good, but I also followed their timeline. I think I would have felt better if they hadn't told me they were holding the car and I was blocking a sale - it wasn't available until today. I get what they mean, but at the same time, they seem pretty confident it's gone tonight. My intentions were definitely good - I even have a charger sitting in my kitchen that I have to return now as my badge of shame ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Appreciate the perspective edit: typos
If the buyer hadb delayed 3+ days in coming to close the deal I doubt the dealer would have turned down a higher offer had someone come in. Op, it's just business, and some people make it way more personal than it needs to be. Inaction, bad communication, and delay cost them a sale. It's as simple as that. They wouldn't have hesitated a moment to sell their car for $6000 more if the opportunity presented itself, and I wouldn't have blamed them.
You’re the typical customer that gets everything you want and then still feel the need to keep upping the ante. Business people know when a deal is done and idiots keep it going until it’s too late.
Not sure why you're getting down voted, this exactly sums up what happened. The dealership had reason to be annoyed but OP might be end up saving 6k. Totally worth it and just a shame for both parties this deal didn't work out.
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***Thanks for posting, /u/ryefoxfly! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** I have been shopping for a used Mach E, and I found one at a Ford dealership not really local, but within a reasonable drive. I contacted the dealership before they had photos, introduced myself, explained that I had zeroed in on this one, and I thought everything was probably good, including the internet price, if the car was in good shape. We exchanged photos of both of our vehicles. I didn't need to do trade with them - I had a good offer locally w/o purchase. They matched it, and I told them I would just trade down here. Then they called back and upped the offer w/o me asking. I told them sure, I could come today. Then they tell me the car isn't ready. Also it's missing a charger, but they'd either get it from the original owner or buy me a new one. They got me photos three days later, car still wasn't ready, but based on what I saw I agreed to a deposit. They next day I had somebody look at the car for me, it was a good report. They tell me the charger is gone, I'm gunna have to deal with it. I remind them they had committed to a charger, and I had not seen any other one not come with a charger - okay they'll discount for the charger. Car should be ready Friday. I buy the charger, ready to go. Thursday morning, an apples to apples (model year, AWD, extended range, same mileage, different color exterior/interior, etc) comparison comes up, $6k less. Again, no photos, but it's also a Ford dealership, so I give them a call, too. I get photos, talk through process, can I have somebody come look, etc. Basically same conversation. Photos look good, small amount of wear, but given miles, it's okay. I call dealership 1 to try to discuss it, the sales person tells me they can't handle the conversation, puts me on hold, comes back, tries to find where it would be a bad comparison, tells me they're going to call the other dealership to find out, etc. Keeps telling me dealership 2 doesn't even have photos, etc. I send them the window sticker, car fax, even the photos dealership 2 sent me. I them her I understand this is a surprise - I promise I'm not trying to play games, that I did some leg work ahead of time to make sure this was even a serious conversation. I'm surprised too, but I need to look into it if they are firm on their price. They get into how they met my trade, and also increased it, and then comped me a charger. I don't point out that I don't need the trade with them, and never asked for the bump. She's gunna call me back tomorrow to talk it through. Friday afternoon, I get a voicemail about refunding the deposit. I call the sales manager because I thought we were at least going to talk about it, and it's not just a hard no - far as they are concerned I broke a contract and we are done. I point out I had tried to do this sooner, but now this other vehicle is out there, and I think it's worth talking about some movement. He kinda scoffs at me - "yeah it was in the shop." He tells me they've been declining calls about it all week, that I've put them in a "sticky situation," and they have an appointment at 5PM. I tell them I don't mean to make bad blood here. I can tell the call is over, and confirm they can refund my CC. So basically, I get it's a surprise, but if they are lined up for tonight - why all the negative energy? I thought everybody could have been level headed about this. Could I have done this better? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*