They really didn’t even do anything crazy here. There’s one service fee. After that there’s a warranty and GAP, which he could cancel and be right back to what OP negotiated. Although I’d be weary of cancelling the warranty on a vehicle this cheap as it’s almost certainly old and high mileage.
Sounds like the exact type of situation where big shot parent comes and cancels all the backend shit, just to ultimately dish out thousands in repairs, or even better, end up 5k flipped without gap and get clapped in an intersection.
YES!!!!!
Buyer: "Yes, please let me but a service contract. I have researched them. I know what you are offering and it is exactly what I want to pay, thank you."
Asshole dad: "Cancel everything, you money stealing cocksucker! My 25 year old son isn't stupid enough to buy that bullshit!"
Cut to dad telling son to put $6k of repairs on credit card to "build credit" 3 months later.
That's the nature of risks. Just because it happens sometimes doesn't mean buying a warranty is a smart financial decision. And it's still a weird thing to revel in.
I guess I don't revel in it?
But here's my take on warranties - a customer buys a used car with some miles on it. The older cars get, the more miles they have, the higher the chance that something goes wrong. Who knows, but the chances go up.
Facts:
> Of those surveyed, 60% report having $500 or less in their checking accounts
This correlates strongly with these customers asking for 'help' in fixing their issues down the road. Sometimes, a warranty can actually help them out here... If they had one. I don't say this to actual customers (I've wanted to on occasion) but "when does this car become your car?"
So I find the value in my customers having some security, for the thing they bought, and being able to *afford* to fix it.
Pretty sure the insurance companies have priced them so that they are on average a bad deal for the buyer. Like you said the sometimes are the outliers.
Yep. They always have a negative expected value. Especially with the huge profit margins baked in for all the middlemen. Finance managers aren't making 6 figure salaries selling warranties at cost.
It's only ever a decent idea if a big repair bill would have additional consequences like losing your job. Then it's a reasonable risk to insure against. But, as always, insurance is expensive.
Guy at work bought his first new car. Bought the $1200 windshield coverage because the guy talked about somebody that had a non-dealership windshield installed and it leaked and ruined all the electronics. I was like - yeah, could happen, but that would be something the windshield installers insurance would cover when you sue them. I really don't want to know what he paid out the door. This was on a Toyota so he was bent over backwards.
My boss owns a used car lot that buys fleet trucks from auction….so you’d imagine how beat to shit those are. I have 2 Ram 2500’s with 6.4’s. Extended warranty just had me tear a head off to inspect lifters and one was completely disintegrated. Just cracked 100k on the odo
Third party service contracts, like the ones advertised on tv, have more holes than swiss cheese that the providers use to deny claims.
Steve Lehto on youtube is a lemon law attorney and has done many videos on them. None of the videos are complimentary.
Always a belief, “we got them.” Yes, we make money. However, at over $200 an hour in labor plus parts if you’re not protecting your asset, especially on a used car, you’re an idiot. I always buy t&w and warranty if I am keeping the unit.
I leased my last couple (Ally gave me 83% residual on a 24mo. term). Now I drive a hand-me-down beater truck that I'll never sell because it's sentimental. I'll fix it eventually, but I'll be damned if I didn't force my dad to buy a VSC and GAP. He drives 30k mi/yr and had an 84mo note. It's usually worth it.
I tell friends and family alllll the time we do our best to inspect and fix everything when we inspect but that doesn’t mean in six months something won’t break… Buy the damn VSC!
Absolutely. I watch NASCAR. This last race, a motor blew up suddenly during the race. These are the best, most expensive, highest quality inspected V8 motors in the world. What makes your 2019 F150 immune?
A vehicle that an asshole dad is negotiating over the phone for their kid, who tells the F&I manager that they have researched the car and they want a service contract because it's likely to have issues, is probably going to. I don't give a shit about cars that are being sold, I don't work in the business anymore. 3 years ago 15 year old, 150k mile cars were selling for 15k or more, trucks were twice that much. Pieces of shit were financing for $600/mo. and those were the ones where the dad insisted that they were "licensed mechanics" and could take care of anything. They were wrong. The kids suffered because they were out of state at college and we got blamed even though we went over and over that this vehicle was going to have problems, and for $50/mo. they could cover it, but no. We were crooks and criminals. I even got threatened with a personal lawsuit if a used vehicle had _ANY_ failures before 20 years and 200k miles. He also told me I belonged in jail for offering a service contract. But if I say anything in my defense, it causes a customer service issue and I get written up.
> Wish I lived in a world where a $15,000 car is cheap.
You do.
The average new car in the USA is $47,400 as of May.
The cheapest MSRP, before taxes, title, registration, fees is a base model Nissan Versa for $17,820 once delivery is included. That gets you a 122hp fwd manual shitbox with AC.
A base model camry is $28k in 2024, before delivery. You're not getting a camry under $30k OTD.
$15k is cheap for a car now.
When you’re buying for a dealer yes that’s cheap. It’s almost certainly several years old with significant mileage. $1500 is a barely running 300k mile hopptie on market place, most of the time it will have rust through the frame.
I just bought a car used from a dealer for under 10k out the door. 2014 Accent 93K miles in great mechanical condition some paint scuffs in the bumpers.
3800?
Price still seems a little high if original deal was 15kOTD.
With 3k down, that’s 12 financed.
This deal seems to be around 20570otd roughly. 3k cash down makes it 17570 financed. Take away the 2700 and 1100 for warranty and gap, you’re at 13700 financed.
They still tacked on 1700
Yeah exactly. I got the OTD several times. Confirmed via phone and email. It was $15,000 financed with $3,000 down payment. We discussed the taxes/dealership fees into the deal as well. It should have been $12,000 financed not $14,000
So he got $3800 of gap and warranty for $2000? Sounds to me like you underestimate him. That’s really a pretty good deal that could save him a helluva lot of money down the road.
Seriously??
I have owned my Toyota Camry for about 10 years now.. I haven't put anywhere near $2k into it for repairs. I did a tune up for $300 last week.. before that the only stuff I have had to do to it was oil changes and tires. I seriously doubt oil changes and tires are paid for with that warranty so it would have saved me what? $300 over the life of that car?
Wait.. no.. the tune up wouldn't have been covered either because that's wear and tear.. So basically I would have paid $2k for nothing..
As long as you are buying a decent car (Toyota.. Nissan.. Honda.. Hyundai basically imo) then you aren't going to do $2k in repairs over the life of a car.. because if you keep your maintenance up there shouldn't really be any repairs.
I have been driving for over 30 years, and have owned multiple car from new to over 200K miles.... Every single car repair I have ever had have not added up to $2000.
Average repair bills at dealerships are $800-$900 now. For a vehicle that’s made out of 15,000 parts, even at 99.9% reliability, that still means that there are 15 parts on the vehicle that could malfunction. 15x850=12,750. Is that really a gamble you want to take? Things have changed drastically since you bought your Camry. Almost half of the cost of that car now, is electronics. And guess what, Toyota isn’t the one making those components. They’re always contracted out to a vendor. That’s why the bumper to bumper warranty is always shorter than the powertrain. If Toyota doesn’t want to guarantee that your big fancy infotainment screen lasts as long as the powertrain will. Why would you believe it will?
If you are buying a car for $15k you probably aren't going to be taking it to the dealership to get fixed.. I have a mechanic that does any repairs I need at like half the price the dealership charges.
I have been driving used cars the majority of my life and I don't think I have spent $12k on repairs the whole time.. so your math isn't mathing.. sorry.
As far as electronics go.. if you are buying a car with all that stuff then ok maybe.. but most $15k cars that I have seen don't even have bluetooth.. so I doubt we are talking about something with all those systems.
The Camry isn't the only car I own.. but that one has lasted very well.
Yeah, I hate it when they just use "total other charges" to glob multiple "items" together and add that on. What "other charges" are we talking here? Isn't that just another tactic that they use to add sorta whatever amount they want so they can still make up for the fact that they might have "loss" some money in a different line item? I'm always skeptical.
I’m not confident OP really got the OTD because the only thing that seems extraneous is the 799 fee. The doc fee tags tax and titles are going to be the same for every customer
I got the OTD several times. Confirmed via phone and email. It was $15,000 financed with $3,000 down payment. We discussed the taxes/dealership fees into the deal as well.
That’s crazy that people see 799 as bad. I’m in Florida and hundreds of dealers (including mine) run doc and filing fee to almost $2000 (mine is 1795). Advantage plan for $2495. Reconditioning(on used of course) $1995. People come in and the price goes up 7k+, yet we price our cars ridiculously cheap like cheapest in the country.
Not sure why everyone always tells people just to cancel everything. If OP is willing to insure the same things at no charge the customer should cancel. If not OP should have a discussion with the buyer if they think the dollar amount they paid for those items is worth it. The third baseman’s opinions don’t always match the buyers opinions.
Depending on who he financed from they could require the GAP insurance be there. The warranty is usually a sham and should be cancelled immediately.
So in all honesty keep the GAP get rid of the fake warranty most places will try to spin a yarn about how only certain mechanicals are covered or how you caused it you need to fix it outside of warranty. This of course is because it’s a used vehicle.
What other tactics do they use to add more money on after they've said something like, "we can give you a lower rate here for..." They make themselves sound so nice and generous and make you think they're doing you a favor so that you'll be more likely to go with it and overlook other higher charges elsewhere. Isn't that a tactic of theirs?
That is in fact not an issue.
3rd base coach, OP was negotiating over email. Actual buyer arrives to look at the car, buyer proceeds to agree to purchase the vehicle and then signs on the dotted line. The dealer did nothing wrong.
I mean, it is. Any legal ground? No
But the dealership is shitty for doing this.
If we had a customer who had a family member helping them out with a purchase, and we told them a sales price but then jacked the customer on that price when it came to the financing, I’d expect them to blow me up all over social media
Dealership is scum. Plenty of dealers out there who don’t pull that bullshit
You sent him alone to the dealership. The same dealership you were avoiding by trying to negotiate entirely by phone.
You did not tell him not to buy without you present.
You did not consider that he would end up sitting in front of a finance guy whose job is entirely to sell additional warranty and product. Or you just didn't feel the need to tell him to not buy anything additional.
"Robbery" has a specific definition. No one was robbed. What I do see is a dad that tried to control the process, but instead made repeated mistakes including sending a young kid in on his own to deal with the very salespeople and process you yourself tried to avoid.
Take your share of the blame, sir.
100% OP is an idiot. Likes to throw around terms like "robbed" then says he doesn't care about the "technical terms". OP just get fucked. They sold him GAP and a Service Contract, both of which he probably needs, and none of which your salesperson has anything to do with.
I dont care about technical terminology. I was talking the the salesman on the phone for 3 days and explained everything. I even called and scheduled the test drive. Nephew made a bad decision signing the paperwork but they fully understood the situation and took advantage of him. They told him the paperwork they had discussed with me was ready and he signed it thinking it was what we had agreed upon.
Is this something you do often in your 8 years of car selling?
Unfortunately you were not present during signing. Did they do a switch a roo and just have your nephew sign with add ons OR did they present gap/warranty in a way that he said yes to it?
It will be his word vs theirs. I'm going to assume you were pissed once you went over the paperwork and your nephew most likely said, yeah this is what they gave me.
Either way, both add-ons aren't overly priced and in fact do add value. Given it's a 15k car, one could assume late model with high miles. Find out what the warranty covers and how long it last, may find it's actually needed. As for the gap, is this going to be a bare minimum payment, is it high interest, a vehicle that will depreciate quickly, a lot of miles, is he going to keep in decent condition....again, gap could save him later in a total loss.
Worst case, immediately call and try to get recon if you're that upset. If not possible, cancel all product and be out the cancelation fee. Loan will shorten as it will be applied to the backend.
Appreciate the level headed advice. Yeah they added on all of the fees and added the insurance/warranty. Based on what my nephew is saying he had absolutely no idea they added any of it and didnt even mention it. Of course he could be lying.
I'll call and see what i can do for him
They def robbed him, they re-did the contract entirely when he arrived. I already have emails of the original agreement. It was his mistake for signing the paperwork but i can guarantee you based on the conversations i had with them they were very aware we were doing an as is transaction with a set upon OTD number. The salesmen seen the opportunity and took advantage of him.
OP, this is a salesman sub so you're only gonna get downvoted, but I've been in the same situation with a car for my wife.
Negotiated, had everything ready and I got called out of town for work the day of signing. Long story short, my wife shows up and the dealer presents her an entirely different purchase agreement that the salesman and I agreed on. It had $5000 in add ons (Warranties that we cancelled). The guys here will say "Your wife is a fucking moron and should be more responsible". I say, this is why people hate dealers. We agreed on numbers, had emailed purchase orders back/forth and my wife signed what she thought I had agreed on. Instead they take an opportunity to take advantage of a customer and then blame the customer for being confused or upset.
Some dealers do some sneaky stuff so it could have all been hidden, but it’s entirely possible that your wife sat down in the finance office, was offered warranties that she said “yeah that makes sense” and then added additional things to the loan. That’s completely different than you agreeing to purchase the car at an OTD price. I don’t know your situation, but people that work at dealerships generally don’t like being lumped into “all dealers are scummy and scammers” for some people not understanding the process very well 😅
> but it’s entirely possible that your wife sat down in the finance office, was offered warranties that she said “yeah that makes sense” and then added additional things to the loan.
She did not. To expand...
She walked into the office, was presented with 2 purchase orders. One was the one that myself and the sales guy discussed and emailed over. The other was a purchase order with warranties but a lower monthly payment (longer loan period but more money at the end). We were at the time using dealer finance because they had an incentive going so I'm assuming that's how they could easily switch the loan period.
I remember during the initial negotiations even saying "Don't need any add ons or warranties" and I even have those emails still. I was happy with the order that my sales guy sent me, which is the order I sent my wife to sign.
My wife, knowing me, assumed the cheaper one was the one I agreed on, so she signed. Only when I got home a day later did I see the switch. They added 3 different warranties. I called my sales guy, who up until that point we had a good working relationship, and I was furious. I cancelled all 3 warranties immediately and got refunded on them.
Worst part of it all was that my instead of being excited for a new car, my wife felt like shit. She felt not only betrayed, but she felt stupid. Kept saying "I should have caught it but I thought that was what you wanted".
> for some people not understanding the process very well
No, no all dealers are scummy and scammers but this right here is why so many hate it. It shouldn't be a "process". You feel like you can never let your guard down, and there's a reason a stereotype exists amongst the dealership crowd, and why so many don't want to deal with sales guys and tactics. You all do this for a living, and know exactly how to squeeze an extra penny, or move numbers around, whereas the average person does it once every few years at best and is easily taken advantage of if the dealer/sales guy wants to take advantage of them.
They didn’t “re-do” the contract, because they never made one up for you. All they sent you was the pencil, which is just the preliminary numbers that you either agree or disagree with before you sit down with the finance manager where the actual contract is generated after discussing gap and warranty information.
Not trying to be a dick, but your nephew had every opportunity to review the contract before he signed it. “I had no idea!” may be true, but it is not durable, nor is it an excuse. Life lesson.
If the nephew was able to sign out the car on his own, I’m gonna go ahead and guess that he’s an adult of sound mind. Sounds to me like OP is just a control freak.
They didn’t add that warranty without your nephew agreeing to it. They can be very persuasive with warranties and it might actually be worth it to keep.
Why didn't you show your nephew the deal you negotiated with the salesman before he went on the test drive? Was there any communication between your nephew and what he was going to sign for? How could your nephew have thought that is what you agreed upon unless he had no idea what your communications with the salesman was?
I don't have all those answers, my nephew lives an hr away and I was working. We discussed on 3 way call about the vehicle and all the numbers. My nephew has the OTD numbers and everything in his email. I helped him get financed as well. When he showed up to test drive it he jumped the gun because the manager said he had finished the paperwork we discussed and he signed it.
It’s quite unlikely they just added in a bunch of stuff afterwards. It seems shady and your nephew would be pretty dumb to just sign blindly. They probably did the right thing and asked if he wanted to protect his new purchase and sold him some protection, which is a good idea on an older used car. Does he have the means to pay thousands in 6 months to a year if the engine was to crater on him?
/s ? If not you’re in the wrong place here pal. His nephew got a deal on some additional coverage that despite you seeing little value in was shown it has value.
He signed the contract, had buyers remorse and lied to his uncle saying he got swindled.
Understanding that you’re under a lot of stress because this is shady, but it isn’t robbery. He signed a contract with everything spelled out.
The finance guys are paid to sell extra warranties. You should have told your nephew to say no to any additional things. The finance guy didn’t read a single one of your communications with the initial sales/bdc person.
The warranty and gap insurance he can have refunded. Be prepared to have to go in person for this. It isn’t rare for shady finance guys to dodge this for months, so that they don’t lose their pay from selling it. Not all, but in person usually helps.
This isn't even shady, this is a uncle not treating his nephew like an adult when he has the ability to make decisions like an adult.
Was the nephew's aware of these communications between the salesman and father? Did the nephew see a copy of the deal that OP negotiated? How hard was it to talk to his own nephew about something that is going to affect him for a few years?
Edited to turn son to nephew
Nephew, but absolutely. It was their responsibility to communicate the terms of the agreed upon deal.
Doubly their responsibility to understand the binding contract being signed.
> this is a uncle not treating his nephew like an adult
how? he works and goes to college full time i was just trying to help him in the process of buying his first car lol. Hes just a knucklehead and jumped the gun
> Was the nephew's aware of these communications between the salesman and father?
Yes of course we talked on the phone/email together for 3 days. He trusted the guy i guess. The contract he signed was not the OTD deal we were given. You can see the OTD numbers in the picture and thats with financing not cash. It was all discussed.
You are insufferable. You did NOTHING to help your nephew. You didn’t negotiate some cream puff deal over the phone so stop breaking your arm patting yourself on the back.
If you REALLY wanted to help your nephew you would have involved him in the process. Explained how it worked ESPECIALLY where the rubber hits the road at the dealership.
At the least you could have scribbled some notes on a napkin for him so he knew what he was looking at when they showed him numbers.
I think you should probably retire from helping people. I’m sure the people you ‘help’ are probably tired of hearing about it.
I involved him entirely in the process. I negotiated over the phone 3 way call because im an hr away. I told the salesman our price and we wanted to buy as is. My nephew scheduled the test drive on thursday and i was planning on going out on saturday. I explained to him insurance and interest. I walked him through the process of finding interest rates and getting pre-approved. the dealership accepted the pre-approval and OTD final price of $15,000.
Every party knew what was happening. My nephew made a mistake signing the contract but the contract he signed was not the one i seen in my email. The same car salesmen re-did the contract when he seen he was by himself.
Also not sure why you are so upset.
You said it. The contract did not match the one in YOUR email. Why wasn’t it in his email? Are you ready to own your mistake yet that you did not share THE MOST CRUCIAL PIECE OF PAPER you had with the person who needed it? You tell him if it looks different than this, don’t sign. If you’re Italian you can add, capeesh to the end of the statement.
You obviously don’t spend much time on this sub if you think you had a final OTD price ready to sign negotiated entirely over the phone. You didn’t even have a deposit on the car. You were just some voice on a phone.
He had the email and the pre-approvals for that exact same contract in his email. Did you just not read the post at all I literally showed the contract even though i removed information. The banks explained to him what to expect, i explained to him as well. I told him once we go in they will want to throw on additional fees but we have this contract as our proof and had already been pre-approved.
>You obviously don’t spend much time on this sub if you think you had a final OTD price ready to sign negotiated entirely over the phone. You didn’t even have a deposit on the car. You were just some voice on a phone.
This is completely false. The OTD number was already agreed on and pre-financed... A $500 refundable deposit was also placed on the vehicle until saturday. He test drove it on thursday and when they noticed he was alone they did an entirely new contract and financed him through a new bank. I'm shocked he fell for it after 3-4 days of warning him. More shocked by the responses on this sub though.
He didn't fall for anything, Czar uncle. GAP and service contracts absolutely can be beneficial to have, especially for people with little to no savings. Your nephew did what adults do and made a decision on how to spend his money.
Now you’re just making shit up. If you had a $500 deposit in the car and if your nephew walked into the dealership holding the deal you negotiated then you would have emphasized these salient facts in the original post.
As it stands, you’re wrong, you know you’re wrong and you’re trying to convince a stranger on the internet that you’re not.
To be clear, the only reason I replied is because you sound like an abusive asshole of an uncle and I want you to lay off putting your nephew down.
Dude. Take some accountability. He very clearly did not understand the terms of the deal you had negotiated. Every single car salesman will try to upsell add-ons. Shady, not shady. You can't be mad at a snake for being a snake. You either needed to make it crystal clear and made sure your nephew had a copy of the deal you negotiated and he doesn't deviate from it, or you should have told him you say no to ALL ADD ONS. You can go fight with the car sales people but at the end of the day use this as a learning opportunity for your nephew, and maybe stop babying him and let him fight his own battles in the future.
>You either needed to make it crystal clear and made sure your nephew had a copy of the deal you negotiated and he doesn't deviate from it, or you should have told him you say no to ALL ADD ONS.
I made that crystal clear to the salesman. I got it in writing via email and he also sent it to my nephews bank for pre-financing purposes. The agreement was changed when my nephew came into the dealership and the salesmen seen he was without me. What do i need to take accountability for? He made the mistakes of signing the contract obviously but the dealership still re-did the contract they agreed to.
Crystal clear TO YOUR NEPHEW what the deal was, not the sales people. If he signed a deal for more money, YOU had not made it clear to him what the final terms should look like. Clearly your nephew was not smart enough to be aware of the fact they would try to throw more at him. If YOU are the adult in the situation that should know better, and YOU said to your nephew that you will help guide him through this process as the adult in the situation, then it is on YOU to prepare him to close the deal and not accept add ons, or at the bare minimum call you before signing anything. YOU obviously did not prepare him for that situation or he would not have signed it.
This isn't rocket science. Keep taking zero accountability or do some reflecting on the way you handled the situation, I don't really care at this point.
Why is it so difficult to you to understand what i'm saying? My nephew and the salesman communicated via phone and email. Everyone understood the terms of the contract and the deal that was in place was already agreed to and a $500 refundable deposit was put on the vehicle to hold the car. The salesmen was told that he wanted to go in to test drive it on a thursday and that i would come on a saturday to help him look at the car and give him a ride (i live an hr away). My nephew understood fees,interest,taxes,dmv everything. When the car salesmen emailed the contract we went to the bank and they spent 2hrs getting him financed and ran through the numbers with him.
When he went in on thursday to test drive it the car salesmen did a new contract and from my understanding convinced him he was signing the one he seen via email. Of course my nephew made a mistake but at the end of the day the contract he signed was not the one we had seen and got sent several times
Ok lol, whatever you say buddy. If you had properly explained the contract to your nephew he wouldn't have been fooled by the changes and signed. He either understood or he didn't. But keep sailing through life like an idiot, all your nephews fault and the sales people even though you were the adult in the situation looking out for your nephew. Sure.
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Maybe he saw value in an extended warranty? Maybe he was worried about being left with his ass out in the rain if he totaled the car. At the end of the day he’s an adult and gets to make his own decisions. Nobody got robbed.
lol robbery I hope you cancel the warranty and the car explodes
You’re blaming the salesman yet you never once decided to speak to finance where all of that was added on
so me helping him is babying him but if he is doing it on his own "the plot thickens"? Hes been working full time for the last 2 years its really not that hard to get a car loan for $10k lol
Car payment was like $300 and insurance was $350. After bills he was saving like $1,500 a month since hes living with his parents. Its high but not impossible and he would prefer to have everything in his name because of parental issues.
I live over an hr away, was planning on coming saturday but he wanted to test drive it before I came and he was getting impatient so i called the dealership and let them know he was just wanting to test drive it and they said he could on a thursday. Had no idea they were going to try to get him to finalize the sell let alone do a completely new contract than what was showed via emails/text/verbal.
Is what it is
Wisdom always has a price. Sometimes you get it for cheap, other times you pay a lot for it. I doubt your nephew will make the mistake again of not understanding something before he signs it. $3k is not much to learn something that will stay with him for 50 years.
All I can say is I hope you’re there to fix the problem if something goes wrong with this car. He obviously saw value in those products if not he would have bought them.
The gap was overpriced but it is what it is, you need that especially only putting a small down payment. The service contract (extended warranty) was actually not priced that badly, full pop would have been closer to $4k at most places.
He's a grown ass man, just step away from it. At least he didn't pay $1k for each or something stupid like that lol
You cannot "pocket a down payment for fees". That's not a thing. The optional products purchased DO have a value. Maybe not to you but they could save your nephew money. Is your nephew financially prepared to pay out of pocket for repairs or pay the difference between what insurance gives and what is owed the bank if it's totalled?
yeah but he can go get gap insurance for far far cheaper than 1100 lmao give me a break. There was probably 2900 of backend gross on all that extra shit they sold him (not to mention 799 dealer fee is hilariously steep).
Yeah I’m stuck flying the 757/767 for a large international carrier, after my stint as an internet sales manager that desked his own deals. Life is rough
Did the salesman you were talking to know that your nephew was the person you had negotiated the deal for when he went in that day? In other words, did he know this was the same guy or did your nephew go in fresh and then try and do it on his own?
At the end of the day, he paid about $2000 more than the price you negotiated. They didn't take the $2500 off but did take off $250. The warranty and gap can be canceled and the sales tax should come down slightly (assuming those are taxed).
If the salesman didn't know it was the same person you were negotiating for, I'm not sure there's much you can do. It's a reasonable deal in the scheme of the things. If he knew, then I'd probably call the sales manager or GM and kindly explain that there was a mixup, that you had agreed to a deal in writing, and you were assured that the buyer you negotiated for would be given the exact deal and you hope they would honor their word and written estimate.
Yeah he knew, everyone was aware of what was going on. He paid $500 refundable to hold the vehicle until saturday so i could drive an hr away to look at the car with him. I called the salesman on thursday and told him my nephew just wanted to test drive the car since he was getting antsy and he said that was fine. The contract he verbally said over the phone and sent my nephews bank was not the same contract he signed.
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I helped him negotiate a good deal for a car he wanted which was supposed to be $15,000 OTD after all expenses and he was going to put $3,000 down and finance the rest. He asked me if he could go test drive the car and I told him sure so he went with his girlfriend and ended up buying it the same day. It was irresponsible of him but now i'm trying to help him sort this mess. What I had agreed to online is \[here\](https://imgur.com/UDznJbs) but what he ended up getting was \[this\](https://imgur.com/r0rqrwE).
What can I look to do here? Obviously starting with getting that warranty removed but it seems they pocked his down payment for fees and financed the rest.
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The GAP can be cancelled as can the service contract. Both refunds will go to his loan/principal. Total of $4800
They really didn’t even do anything crazy here. There’s one service fee. After that there’s a warranty and GAP, which he could cancel and be right back to what OP negotiated. Although I’d be weary of cancelling the warranty on a vehicle this cheap as it’s almost certainly old and high mileage.
Sounds like the exact type of situation where big shot parent comes and cancels all the backend shit, just to ultimately dish out thousands in repairs, or even better, end up 5k flipped without gap and get clapped in an intersection.
$1100 for gap insurance on an 8 year old vehicle where you have put 20% down seems like not a good deal at all.
YES!!!!! Buyer: "Yes, please let me but a service contract. I have researched them. I know what you are offering and it is exactly what I want to pay, thank you." Asshole dad: "Cancel everything, you money stealing cocksucker! My 25 year old son isn't stupid enough to buy that bullshit!" Cut to dad telling son to put $6k of repairs on credit card to "build credit" 3 months later.
You guys have weird fantasies.
No kidding
I mean, seen it happen. Not usually $6k worth, but the number of times repairs happen months after buying a 10+ yr old car is kinda high..
That's the nature of risks. Just because it happens sometimes doesn't mean buying a warranty is a smart financial decision. And it's still a weird thing to revel in.
I guess I don't revel in it? But here's my take on warranties - a customer buys a used car with some miles on it. The older cars get, the more miles they have, the higher the chance that something goes wrong. Who knows, but the chances go up. Facts: > Of those surveyed, 60% report having $500 or less in their checking accounts This correlates strongly with these customers asking for 'help' in fixing their issues down the road. Sometimes, a warranty can actually help them out here... If they had one. I don't say this to actual customers (I've wanted to on occasion) but "when does this car become your car?" So I find the value in my customers having some security, for the thing they bought, and being able to *afford* to fix it.
People without $500 saved can't afford to buy a car
Dude..... You'd be *surprised* how many people come in with that scenario. Not all do buy, but some do..
Pretty sure the insurance companies have priced them so that they are on average a bad deal for the buyer. Like you said the sometimes are the outliers.
Yep. They always have a negative expected value. Especially with the huge profit margins baked in for all the middlemen. Finance managers aren't making 6 figure salaries selling warranties at cost. It's only ever a decent idea if a big repair bill would have additional consequences like losing your job. Then it's a reasonable risk to insure against. But, as always, insurance is expensive.
Guy at work bought his first new car. Bought the $1200 windshield coverage because the guy talked about somebody that had a non-dealership windshield installed and it leaked and ruined all the electronics. I was like - yeah, could happen, but that would be something the windshield installers insurance would cover when you sue them. I really don't want to know what he paid out the door. This was on a Toyota so he was bent over backwards.
My boss owns a used car lot that buys fleet trucks from auction….so you’d imagine how beat to shit those are. I have 2 Ram 2500’s with 6.4’s. Extended warranty just had me tear a head off to inspect lifters and one was completely disintegrated. Just cracked 100k on the odo
Yeah. If this was the typical scenario, there would be no such thing as extended warranties.
The truth is strange.
Third party service contracts, like the ones advertised on tv, have more holes than swiss cheese that the providers use to deny claims. Steve Lehto on youtube is a lemon law attorney and has done many videos on them. None of the videos are complimentary.
You’re exactly right…
There's a reason I'm out of the industry.
Always a belief, “we got them.” Yes, we make money. However, at over $200 an hour in labor plus parts if you’re not protecting your asset, especially on a used car, you’re an idiot. I always buy t&w and warranty if I am keeping the unit.
I leased my last couple (Ally gave me 83% residual on a 24mo. term). Now I drive a hand-me-down beater truck that I'll never sell because it's sentimental. I'll fix it eventually, but I'll be damned if I didn't force my dad to buy a VSC and GAP. He drives 30k mi/yr and had an 84mo note. It's usually worth it.
I tell friends and family alllll the time we do our best to inspect and fix everything when we inspect but that doesn’t mean in six months something won’t break… Buy the damn VSC!
Absolutely. I watch NASCAR. This last race, a motor blew up suddenly during the race. These are the best, most expensive, highest quality inspected V8 motors in the world. What makes your 2019 F150 immune?
So your cars usually break down in 3 months? That's not very confidence inspiring tbh
A vehicle that an asshole dad is negotiating over the phone for their kid, who tells the F&I manager that they have researched the car and they want a service contract because it's likely to have issues, is probably going to. I don't give a shit about cars that are being sold, I don't work in the business anymore. 3 years ago 15 year old, 150k mile cars were selling for 15k or more, trucks were twice that much. Pieces of shit were financing for $600/mo. and those were the ones where the dad insisted that they were "licensed mechanics" and could take care of anything. They were wrong. The kids suffered because they were out of state at college and we got blamed even though we went over and over that this vehicle was going to have problems, and for $50/mo. they could cover it, but no. We were crooks and criminals. I even got threatened with a personal lawsuit if a used vehicle had _ANY_ failures before 20 years and 200k miles. He also told me I belonged in jail for offering a service contract. But if I say anything in my defense, it causes a customer service issue and I get written up.
82k miles. 2016 mazda6. He'll be fine without a warranty for quite a while
It’s a 9 year old car. Mazdas are fairly reliable but things do need replaced after a decade.
I’m sorry, what? $15,000 is “cheap”? I had to go back and look to make sure it wasn’t $1,500. Wish I lived in a world where a $15,000 car is cheap.
> Wish I lived in a world where a $15,000 car is cheap. You do. The average new car in the USA is $47,400 as of May. The cheapest MSRP, before taxes, title, registration, fees is a base model Nissan Versa for $17,820 once delivery is included. That gets you a 122hp fwd manual shitbox with AC. A base model camry is $28k in 2024, before delivery. You're not getting a camry under $30k OTD. $15k is cheap for a car now.
When you’re buying for a dealer yes that’s cheap. It’s almost certainly several years old with significant mileage. $1500 is a barely running 300k mile hopptie on market place, most of the time it will have rust through the frame.
My 6 year old large suv was almost $28k and that was a steal.
You do, you live in this world. Welcome to 2024.
lol oh my sweet summer child.
I just bought a car used from a dealer for under 10k out the door. 2014 Accent 93K miles in great mechanical condition some paint scuffs in the bumpers.
So a shitbox
so you bought one of the most unreliable cars that was sort cheap and poorly built, complete with Body damage. You overpaid for it too.
3800? Price still seems a little high if original deal was 15kOTD. With 3k down, that’s 12 financed. This deal seems to be around 20570otd roughly. 3k cash down makes it 17570 financed. Take away the 2700 and 1100 for warranty and gap, you’re at 13700 financed. They still tacked on 1700
Yeah exactly. I got the OTD several times. Confirmed via phone and email. It was $15,000 financed with $3,000 down payment. We discussed the taxes/dealership fees into the deal as well. It should have been $12,000 financed not $14,000
So he got $3800 of gap and warranty for $2000? Sounds to me like you underestimate him. That’s really a pretty good deal that could save him a helluva lot of money down the road.
Seriously?? I have owned my Toyota Camry for about 10 years now.. I haven't put anywhere near $2k into it for repairs. I did a tune up for $300 last week.. before that the only stuff I have had to do to it was oil changes and tires. I seriously doubt oil changes and tires are paid for with that warranty so it would have saved me what? $300 over the life of that car? Wait.. no.. the tune up wouldn't have been covered either because that's wear and tear.. So basically I would have paid $2k for nothing.. As long as you are buying a decent car (Toyota.. Nissan.. Honda.. Hyundai basically imo) then you aren't going to do $2k in repairs over the life of a car.. because if you keep your maintenance up there shouldn't really be any repairs.
I have been driving for over 30 years, and have owned multiple car from new to over 200K miles.... Every single car repair I have ever had have not added up to $2000.
Average repair bills at dealerships are $800-$900 now. For a vehicle that’s made out of 15,000 parts, even at 99.9% reliability, that still means that there are 15 parts on the vehicle that could malfunction. 15x850=12,750. Is that really a gamble you want to take? Things have changed drastically since you bought your Camry. Almost half of the cost of that car now, is electronics. And guess what, Toyota isn’t the one making those components. They’re always contracted out to a vendor. That’s why the bumper to bumper warranty is always shorter than the powertrain. If Toyota doesn’t want to guarantee that your big fancy infotainment screen lasts as long as the powertrain will. Why would you believe it will?
If you are buying a car for $15k you probably aren't going to be taking it to the dealership to get fixed.. I have a mechanic that does any repairs I need at like half the price the dealership charges. I have been driving used cars the majority of my life and I don't think I have spent $12k on repairs the whole time.. so your math isn't mathing.. sorry. As far as electronics go.. if you are buying a car with all that stuff then ok maybe.. but most $15k cars that I have seen don't even have bluetooth.. so I doubt we are talking about something with all those systems. The Camry isn't the only car I own.. but that one has lasted very well.
I don’t gamble against the house, the warranty company is the house, and the house always wins. If they didn’t, they’d go out of business.
You came to the wrong sub to ask this question.
Yeah, I hate it when they just use "total other charges" to glob multiple "items" together and add that on. What "other charges" are we talking here? Isn't that just another tactic that they use to add sorta whatever amount they want so they can still make up for the fact that they might have "loss" some money in a different line item? I'm always skeptical.
I’m not confident OP really got the OTD because the only thing that seems extraneous is the 799 fee. The doc fee tags tax and titles are going to be the same for every customer
I got the OTD several times. Confirmed via phone and email. It was $15,000 financed with $3,000 down payment. We discussed the taxes/dealership fees into the deal as well.
$15k financed with a $3k down payment is $18k. It should be $12k financed with a $3k downpayment.
That's $18k OTD.
So have him cancel the GAP and Warranty but like we’ve all said make she she’s prepared to buy for repairs out of pocket
That’s crazy that people see 799 as bad. I’m in Florida and hundreds of dealers (including mine) run doc and filing fee to almost $2000 (mine is 1795). Advantage plan for $2495. Reconditioning(on used of course) $1995. People come in and the price goes up 7k+, yet we price our cars ridiculously cheap like cheapest in the country.
I also didn’t notice the 15k said CASH price.
It says cash price but thats financed, i confirmed over the phone several times.
I would never recommend getting rid of gap
Not sure why everyone always tells people just to cancel everything. If OP is willing to insure the same things at no charge the customer should cancel. If not OP should have a discussion with the buyer if they think the dollar amount they paid for those items is worth it. The third baseman’s opinions don’t always match the buyers opinions.
Depending on who he financed from they could require the GAP insurance be there. The warranty is usually a sham and should be cancelled immediately. So in all honesty keep the GAP get rid of the fake warranty most places will try to spin a yarn about how only certain mechanicals are covered or how you caused it you need to fix it outside of warranty. This of course is because it’s a used vehicle.
What other tactics do they use to add more money on after they've said something like, "we can give you a lower rate here for..." They make themselves sound so nice and generous and make you think they're doing you a favor so that you'll be more likely to go with it and overlook other higher charges elsewhere. Isn't that a tactic of theirs?
They raised the sales price on him. Thats the biggest issue. Warranty and gap are cancellable but also on him for purchasing.
That is in fact not an issue. 3rd base coach, OP was negotiating over email. Actual buyer arrives to look at the car, buyer proceeds to agree to purchase the vehicle and then signs on the dotted line. The dealer did nothing wrong.
I mean, it is. Any legal ground? No But the dealership is shitty for doing this. If we had a customer who had a family member helping them out with a purchase, and we told them a sales price but then jacked the customer on that price when it came to the financing, I’d expect them to blow me up all over social media Dealership is scum. Plenty of dealers out there who don’t pull that bullshit
You sent him alone to the dealership. The same dealership you were avoiding by trying to negotiate entirely by phone. You did not tell him not to buy without you present. You did not consider that he would end up sitting in front of a finance guy whose job is entirely to sell additional warranty and product. Or you just didn't feel the need to tell him to not buy anything additional. "Robbery" has a specific definition. No one was robbed. What I do see is a dad that tried to control the process, but instead made repeated mistakes including sending a young kid in on his own to deal with the very salespeople and process you yourself tried to avoid. Take your share of the blame, sir.
Cancel the add on’s and he’s fine. Not robbery when your nephew signed and clearly agreed to it.
Is it robbery if it’s consensual and the person being robbed signs a legally binding contract?
100% OP is an idiot. Likes to throw around terms like "robbed" then says he doesn't care about the "technical terms". OP just get fucked. They sold him GAP and a Service Contract, both of which he probably needs, and none of which your salesperson has anything to do with.
I dont care about technical terminology. I was talking the the salesman on the phone for 3 days and explained everything. I even called and scheduled the test drive. Nephew made a bad decision signing the paperwork but they fully understood the situation and took advantage of him. They told him the paperwork they had discussed with me was ready and he signed it thinking it was what we had agreed upon. Is this something you do often in your 8 years of car selling?
Unfortunately you were not present during signing. Did they do a switch a roo and just have your nephew sign with add ons OR did they present gap/warranty in a way that he said yes to it? It will be his word vs theirs. I'm going to assume you were pissed once you went over the paperwork and your nephew most likely said, yeah this is what they gave me. Either way, both add-ons aren't overly priced and in fact do add value. Given it's a 15k car, one could assume late model with high miles. Find out what the warranty covers and how long it last, may find it's actually needed. As for the gap, is this going to be a bare minimum payment, is it high interest, a vehicle that will depreciate quickly, a lot of miles, is he going to keep in decent condition....again, gap could save him later in a total loss. Worst case, immediately call and try to get recon if you're that upset. If not possible, cancel all product and be out the cancelation fee. Loan will shorten as it will be applied to the backend.
Appreciate the level headed advice. Yeah they added on all of the fees and added the insurance/warranty. Based on what my nephew is saying he had absolutely no idea they added any of it and didnt even mention it. Of course he could be lying. I'll call and see what i can do for him
I’m sure after you told them they robbed you, he probably felt stupid and made shit up to tell you so you wouldn’t blame him.
ding ding ding....when OP's immediate reaction is 'they robbed his nephew', I'm quite sure the nephew was very afraid to admit he made a mistake.
They def robbed him, they re-did the contract entirely when he arrived. I already have emails of the original agreement. It was his mistake for signing the paperwork but i can guarantee you based on the conversations i had with them they were very aware we were doing an as is transaction with a set upon OTD number. The salesmen seen the opportunity and took advantage of him.
OP, this is a salesman sub so you're only gonna get downvoted, but I've been in the same situation with a car for my wife. Negotiated, had everything ready and I got called out of town for work the day of signing. Long story short, my wife shows up and the dealer presents her an entirely different purchase agreement that the salesman and I agreed on. It had $5000 in add ons (Warranties that we cancelled). The guys here will say "Your wife is a fucking moron and should be more responsible". I say, this is why people hate dealers. We agreed on numbers, had emailed purchase orders back/forth and my wife signed what she thought I had agreed on. Instead they take an opportunity to take advantage of a customer and then blame the customer for being confused or upset.
Some dealers do some sneaky stuff so it could have all been hidden, but it’s entirely possible that your wife sat down in the finance office, was offered warranties that she said “yeah that makes sense” and then added additional things to the loan. That’s completely different than you agreeing to purchase the car at an OTD price. I don’t know your situation, but people that work at dealerships generally don’t like being lumped into “all dealers are scummy and scammers” for some people not understanding the process very well 😅
> but it’s entirely possible that your wife sat down in the finance office, was offered warranties that she said “yeah that makes sense” and then added additional things to the loan. She did not. To expand... She walked into the office, was presented with 2 purchase orders. One was the one that myself and the sales guy discussed and emailed over. The other was a purchase order with warranties but a lower monthly payment (longer loan period but more money at the end). We were at the time using dealer finance because they had an incentive going so I'm assuming that's how they could easily switch the loan period. I remember during the initial negotiations even saying "Don't need any add ons or warranties" and I even have those emails still. I was happy with the order that my sales guy sent me, which is the order I sent my wife to sign. My wife, knowing me, assumed the cheaper one was the one I agreed on, so she signed. Only when I got home a day later did I see the switch. They added 3 different warranties. I called my sales guy, who up until that point we had a good working relationship, and I was furious. I cancelled all 3 warranties immediately and got refunded on them. Worst part of it all was that my instead of being excited for a new car, my wife felt like shit. She felt not only betrayed, but she felt stupid. Kept saying "I should have caught it but I thought that was what you wanted". > for some people not understanding the process very well No, no all dealers are scummy and scammers but this right here is why so many hate it. It shouldn't be a "process". You feel like you can never let your guard down, and there's a reason a stereotype exists amongst the dealership crowd, and why so many don't want to deal with sales guys and tactics. You all do this for a living, and know exactly how to squeeze an extra penny, or move numbers around, whereas the average person does it once every few years at best and is easily taken advantage of if the dealer/sales guy wants to take advantage of them.
They didn’t “re-do” the contract, because they never made one up for you. All they sent you was the pencil, which is just the preliminary numbers that you either agree or disagree with before you sit down with the finance manager where the actual contract is generated after discussing gap and warranty information.
Not trying to be a dick, but your nephew had every opportunity to review the contract before he signed it. “I had no idea!” may be true, but it is not durable, nor is it an excuse. Life lesson.
If the nephew was able to sign out the car on his own, I’m gonna go ahead and guess that he’s an adult of sound mind. Sounds to me like OP is just a control freak.
They didn’t add that warranty without your nephew agreeing to it. They can be very persuasive with warranties and it might actually be worth it to keep.
There's no reason to call. They're not going to discuss a legal contract of someone else with you.
Why didn't you show your nephew the deal you negotiated with the salesman before he went on the test drive? Was there any communication between your nephew and what he was going to sign for? How could your nephew have thought that is what you agreed upon unless he had no idea what your communications with the salesman was?
I don't have all those answers, my nephew lives an hr away and I was working. We discussed on 3 way call about the vehicle and all the numbers. My nephew has the OTD numbers and everything in his email. I helped him get financed as well. When he showed up to test drive it he jumped the gun because the manager said he had finished the paperwork we discussed and he signed it.
How did you help him get financed? Did you co-sign?
It’s quite unlikely they just added in a bunch of stuff afterwards. It seems shady and your nephew would be pretty dumb to just sign blindly. They probably did the right thing and asked if he wanted to protect his new purchase and sold him some protection, which is a good idea on an older used car. Does he have the means to pay thousands in 6 months to a year if the engine was to crater on him?
The only thing that matters in contract law is technical terminology. Good luck.
no sir. His nephew was upsold additional items, therefore it is ROBBERY.
/s ? If not you’re in the wrong place here pal. His nephew got a deal on some additional coverage that despite you seeing little value in was shown it has value. He signed the contract, had buyers remorse and lied to his uncle saying he got swindled.
yea that was sarcastic. I agree with you
Understanding that you’re under a lot of stress because this is shady, but it isn’t robbery. He signed a contract with everything spelled out. The finance guys are paid to sell extra warranties. You should have told your nephew to say no to any additional things. The finance guy didn’t read a single one of your communications with the initial sales/bdc person. The warranty and gap insurance he can have refunded. Be prepared to have to go in person for this. It isn’t rare for shady finance guys to dodge this for months, so that they don’t lose their pay from selling it. Not all, but in person usually helps.
This isn't even shady, this is a uncle not treating his nephew like an adult when he has the ability to make decisions like an adult. Was the nephew's aware of these communications between the salesman and father? Did the nephew see a copy of the deal that OP negotiated? How hard was it to talk to his own nephew about something that is going to affect him for a few years? Edited to turn son to nephew
Nephew, but absolutely. It was their responsibility to communicate the terms of the agreed upon deal. Doubly their responsibility to understand the binding contract being signed.
> this is a uncle not treating his nephew like an adult how? he works and goes to college full time i was just trying to help him in the process of buying his first car lol. Hes just a knucklehead and jumped the gun > Was the nephew's aware of these communications between the salesman and father? Yes of course we talked on the phone/email together for 3 days. He trusted the guy i guess. The contract he signed was not the OTD deal we were given. You can see the OTD numbers in the picture and thats with financing not cash. It was all discussed.
He bought the car for the price you agreed to. He also got warranty and gap, which to be honest is a good idea anyway.
You are insufferable. You did NOTHING to help your nephew. You didn’t negotiate some cream puff deal over the phone so stop breaking your arm patting yourself on the back. If you REALLY wanted to help your nephew you would have involved him in the process. Explained how it worked ESPECIALLY where the rubber hits the road at the dealership. At the least you could have scribbled some notes on a napkin for him so he knew what he was looking at when they showed him numbers. I think you should probably retire from helping people. I’m sure the people you ‘help’ are probably tired of hearing about it.
I involved him entirely in the process. I negotiated over the phone 3 way call because im an hr away. I told the salesman our price and we wanted to buy as is. My nephew scheduled the test drive on thursday and i was planning on going out on saturday. I explained to him insurance and interest. I walked him through the process of finding interest rates and getting pre-approved. the dealership accepted the pre-approval and OTD final price of $15,000. Every party knew what was happening. My nephew made a mistake signing the contract but the contract he signed was not the one i seen in my email. The same car salesmen re-did the contract when he seen he was by himself. Also not sure why you are so upset.
Unless you have a POA over your nephew you cannot negotiate on his behalf.
You said it. The contract did not match the one in YOUR email. Why wasn’t it in his email? Are you ready to own your mistake yet that you did not share THE MOST CRUCIAL PIECE OF PAPER you had with the person who needed it? You tell him if it looks different than this, don’t sign. If you’re Italian you can add, capeesh to the end of the statement. You obviously don’t spend much time on this sub if you think you had a final OTD price ready to sign negotiated entirely over the phone. You didn’t even have a deposit on the car. You were just some voice on a phone.
He had the email and the pre-approvals for that exact same contract in his email. Did you just not read the post at all I literally showed the contract even though i removed information. The banks explained to him what to expect, i explained to him as well. I told him once we go in they will want to throw on additional fees but we have this contract as our proof and had already been pre-approved. >You obviously don’t spend much time on this sub if you think you had a final OTD price ready to sign negotiated entirely over the phone. You didn’t even have a deposit on the car. You were just some voice on a phone. This is completely false. The OTD number was already agreed on and pre-financed... A $500 refundable deposit was also placed on the vehicle until saturday. He test drove it on thursday and when they noticed he was alone they did an entirely new contract and financed him through a new bank. I'm shocked he fell for it after 3-4 days of warning him. More shocked by the responses on this sub though.
He didn't fall for anything, Czar uncle. GAP and service contracts absolutely can be beneficial to have, especially for people with little to no savings. Your nephew did what adults do and made a decision on how to spend his money.
Now you’re just making shit up. If you had a $500 deposit in the car and if your nephew walked into the dealership holding the deal you negotiated then you would have emphasized these salient facts in the original post. As it stands, you’re wrong, you know you’re wrong and you’re trying to convince a stranger on the internet that you’re not. To be clear, the only reason I replied is because you sound like an abusive asshole of an uncle and I want you to lay off putting your nephew down.
Dude. Take some accountability. He very clearly did not understand the terms of the deal you had negotiated. Every single car salesman will try to upsell add-ons. Shady, not shady. You can't be mad at a snake for being a snake. You either needed to make it crystal clear and made sure your nephew had a copy of the deal you negotiated and he doesn't deviate from it, or you should have told him you say no to ALL ADD ONS. You can go fight with the car sales people but at the end of the day use this as a learning opportunity for your nephew, and maybe stop babying him and let him fight his own battles in the future.
>You either needed to make it crystal clear and made sure your nephew had a copy of the deal you negotiated and he doesn't deviate from it, or you should have told him you say no to ALL ADD ONS. I made that crystal clear to the salesman. I got it in writing via email and he also sent it to my nephews bank for pre-financing purposes. The agreement was changed when my nephew came into the dealership and the salesmen seen he was without me. What do i need to take accountability for? He made the mistakes of signing the contract obviously but the dealership still re-did the contract they agreed to.
You cant convince swindlers what they are doing is wrong, none of the salesman or Finance guys will ever admit this was a sleazy transaction
Crystal clear TO YOUR NEPHEW what the deal was, not the sales people. If he signed a deal for more money, YOU had not made it clear to him what the final terms should look like. Clearly your nephew was not smart enough to be aware of the fact they would try to throw more at him. If YOU are the adult in the situation that should know better, and YOU said to your nephew that you will help guide him through this process as the adult in the situation, then it is on YOU to prepare him to close the deal and not accept add ons, or at the bare minimum call you before signing anything. YOU obviously did not prepare him for that situation or he would not have signed it. This isn't rocket science. Keep taking zero accountability or do some reflecting on the way you handled the situation, I don't really care at this point.
Why is it so difficult to you to understand what i'm saying? My nephew and the salesman communicated via phone and email. Everyone understood the terms of the contract and the deal that was in place was already agreed to and a $500 refundable deposit was put on the vehicle to hold the car. The salesmen was told that he wanted to go in to test drive it on a thursday and that i would come on a saturday to help him look at the car and give him a ride (i live an hr away). My nephew understood fees,interest,taxes,dmv everything. When the car salesmen emailed the contract we went to the bank and they spent 2hrs getting him financed and ran through the numbers with him. When he went in on thursday to test drive it the car salesmen did a new contract and from my understanding convinced him he was signing the one he seen via email. Of course my nephew made a mistake but at the end of the day the contract he signed was not the one we had seen and got sent several times
Ok lol, whatever you say buddy. If you had properly explained the contract to your nephew he wouldn't have been fooled by the changes and signed. He either understood or he didn't. But keep sailing through life like an idiot, all your nephews fault and the sales people even though you were the adult in the situation looking out for your nephew. Sure.
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Maybe he saw value in an extended warranty? Maybe he was worried about being left with his ass out in the rain if he totaled the car. At the end of the day he’s an adult and gets to make his own decisions. Nobody got robbed.
lol robbery I hope you cancel the warranty and the car explodes You’re blaming the salesman yet you never once decided to speak to finance where all of that was added on
How old is this consenting adult? When did you stop wiping his ass?
hes 18 and works full time and goes to college. pretty normal to help a kid in their first car buying experience
So an 18 year old got his own financing and insurance? The plot thickens
so me helping him is babying him but if he is doing it on his own "the plot thickens"? Hes been working full time for the last 2 years its really not that hard to get a car loan for $10k lol
Yes it is as a child and the insurance has to be insane. Atleast you could have stayed w him while at the dealer. You tried
Car payment was like $300 and insurance was $350. After bills he was saving like $1,500 a month since hes living with his parents. Its high but not impossible and he would prefer to have everything in his name because of parental issues. I live over an hr away, was planning on coming saturday but he wanted to test drive it before I came and he was getting impatient so i called the dealership and let them know he was just wanting to test drive it and they said he could on a thursday. Had no idea they were going to try to get him to finalize the sell let alone do a completely new contract than what was showed via emails/text/verbal. Is what it is
Wisdom always has a price. Sometimes you get it for cheap, other times you pay a lot for it. I doubt your nephew will make the mistake again of not understanding something before he signs it. $3k is not much to learn something that will stay with him for 50 years.
All I can say is I hope you’re there to fix the problem if something goes wrong with this car. He obviously saw value in those products if not he would have bought them.
The gap was overpriced but it is what it is, you need that especially only putting a small down payment. The service contract (extended warranty) was actually not priced that badly, full pop would have been closer to $4k at most places. He's a grown ass man, just step away from it. At least he didn't pay $1k for each or something stupid like that lol
Don’t cancel the GAP or warranty — he could quite possibly use it.
I would want a warranty on a 16 Mazda
With the mileage, absolutely. Also, GAP will certainly be necessary in a total loss scenario.
You cannot "pocket a down payment for fees". That's not a thing. The optional products purchased DO have a value. Maybe not to you but they could save your nephew money. Is your nephew financially prepared to pay out of pocket for repairs or pay the difference between what insurance gives and what is owed the bank if it's totalled?
yeah but he can go get gap insurance for far far cheaper than 1100 lmao give me a break. There was probably 2900 of backend gross on all that extra shit they sold him (not to mention 799 dealer fee is hilariously steep).
Don’t forget the $500 electronic filing fee. This dealer is scummy af.
You sound bitter. Never made it past salesperson, huh?
I’m dead, I was just thinking of the guy who sold 6 cars in a month and said “this dealer sucks”
Yeah I’m stuck flying the 757/767 for a large international carrier, after my stint as an internet sales manager that desked his own deals. Life is rough
LMAO EFF THAT! Couldn't pay me enough to get on a Boeing plane these days.
Did the salesman you were talking to know that your nephew was the person you had negotiated the deal for when he went in that day? In other words, did he know this was the same guy or did your nephew go in fresh and then try and do it on his own? At the end of the day, he paid about $2000 more than the price you negotiated. They didn't take the $2500 off but did take off $250. The warranty and gap can be canceled and the sales tax should come down slightly (assuming those are taxed). If the salesman didn't know it was the same person you were negotiating for, I'm not sure there's much you can do. It's a reasonable deal in the scheme of the things. If he knew, then I'd probably call the sales manager or GM and kindly explain that there was a mixup, that you had agreed to a deal in writing, and you were assured that the buyer you negotiated for would be given the exact deal and you hope they would honor their word and written estimate.
Yeah he knew, everyone was aware of what was going on. He paid $500 refundable to hold the vehicle until saturday so i could drive an hr away to look at the car with him. I called the salesman on thursday and told him my nephew just wanted to test drive the car since he was getting antsy and he said that was fine. The contract he verbally said over the phone and sent my nephews bank was not the same contract he signed.
Looks like they pumped the sales price a little over $2200 and then sold him the ESP and GAP
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***Thanks for posting, /u/F250J! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** I helped him negotiate a good deal for a car he wanted which was supposed to be $15,000 OTD after all expenses and he was going to put $3,000 down and finance the rest. He asked me if he could go test drive the car and I told him sure so he went with his girlfriend and ended up buying it the same day. It was irresponsible of him but now i'm trying to help him sort this mess. What I had agreed to online is \[here\](https://imgur.com/UDznJbs) but what he ended up getting was \[this\](https://imgur.com/r0rqrwE). What can I look to do here? Obviously starting with getting that warranty removed but it seems they pocked his down payment for fees and financed the rest. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Quarterback butthurt because he’s finding out he’s not the master debater he claims to be and nephew has it on paper.