You answered yourself. It's a religion. The dude you dated was obviously bending the rules when it comes to Islam, but otherwise yes, it's a sin no matter what. Fucking during Ramadan is probably twice as bad, hence the hesitation.
Edit: Not that I find it logical, it's just set of rules some people want to believe and that's it.
They would just cherry pick like any other religious person does when their 'teachings' conflict with their lifestyle or moralities. It's why one sect of Christians can have a female lesbian pastor lead their congregation while yet another would gladly see that same pastor killed - both are reading from the same book!
When you are brought up with religion, the teachings are imbedded into from birth and so it can be very scary to leave a religion so people start kidding themselves. There is also a lot of good in religious teachings that people that aren’t associated with that religion don’t understand. It’s not always as simple as cherry picking, in Islam, the general consensus is that you can be homosexual but you cannot act upon your feelings as it is a test so some people will remain in the folds of Islam but will constantly feel ashamed and will obviously find it hard to refrain from homosexuality seeing as we are innately programmed to want to have sex so they start delving deeper into certain texts and delude themselves into thinking homosexual relationships are permitted in Abrahamic religions.
Not exactly. In Ramadan, your fast breaks if you engage in sexual activity be it straight or gay. Fasting is about abstaining from daily pleasures, it’s not simply about not eating and drinking. It’s supposed to build character and make you feel more appreciative and fulfilled by taking away things you take for granted in your everyday life. It’s an aspect of Islam I’ve always liked, so many people today are unhappy because we always want more and are never satisfied with what we have and I don’t mean being in hardships such as poverty and wanting to get out, I’m talking about for example people that are overly driven by money and could end up making enough to never be financially insecure through their whole life but will continue trying to make more and more when they really don’t need it.
Given it’s the most holy month in Islam and is the month where Muslims believe the worst of demons and evil entities are chained up during this month to prevent them influencing people to do bad, a lot of Muslims will try to abstain more from sin.
In OP’s case, I think it’s simply a case of the fast not breaking, the fasting lasts between sunrise and sunset and if you intentionally break one of the rules from fasting such as eating or having sex then the fast becomes invalid and to atone for breaking a fast, you must feed 60 people. If OP’s boyfriend forgot he was fasting and kissed OP but then realised and stops then the fast does not break.
EDIT: By your use of probably, I’m assuming you’re not Muslim or don’t come from an Islamic background so if you could please refrain from answering these sorts of questions to prevent misinformation being spread and misconceptions. In this case it is minor and I’m not having a go, it’s just that I do come from an Islamic background and people have often assumed things about me and Muslims in general because of misconceptions and misinformation.
This needs to be higher up. There are mental/spiritual benefits to fasting according to many religions. Same goes for prayer, charitable donations, family/community and other important tenets of Islam. Just because certain aspects of the religion are intolerant/absolutist doesn't mean everything about it is bad. The religious conservatives don't hold the copyright to their respective religions, no matter how much they will try to say they do.
Besides, of all the self-destructive things that so many gay men do, OP's gripe is about refraining from sex during daylight hours for one month a year, in accordance with a 1,000+ year old family tradition? There are worse things in life.
Ex-Muslim, and you hit the nail on the head. Hell, some of the non-Muslim friends I grew up with fast the first week or so just outta solidarity. It's an identity thing, past the religious bit. I grew up on little stories from the old country like the old dude in the village who'd sneak fruits and candy to fasting kids, cute shit like that.
People bend rules to all religions in order to adapt to modern life. This is a moderating force and should be supported. They probably do it just because Ramadan is a particularly special thing. Kind of like Christian’s that go to church on Easter but hardly go the rest of the year.
People not being fundamentalists is great, let’s encourage them adapting religion to modern life.
This is not unique to Muslims, gay sex is also a sin for Catholics even if the church is starting to realise its position in untenable in the west, but the official stance hasn’t changed. And yet in catholic countries a lot of gays invent ways of living with it.
By the way I’m not equating the catholic and Muslim stance on gay sex, the opposition is not as strong for catholics these days. But the if you want to see how people make it work (or not), people of other faiths do the same.
Actually traditionally you’re not to have sex during the high holidays. Easter, Christmas, many give it up during Lent all those periods you’re supposed to be chaste and committed to Christ in prayer, actions and deeds. No sex, no masturbation, no sinful behavior. This isn’t Catholics only, but Orthodox Christians, Protestants also have similar beliefs on sex during the holy days. You’re usually meant to be pure and sex is impure and only to be done for procreation not pleasure.
It’s very ironic the Muslim men you’ve dated all refused to have sex in the day during Ramadan when gay sex/intimacy is not allowed at all in Islam. My guess is they’re subconsciously so deeply rooted and part of the inherent homophobic system that they’ve internalised and adopted Islamic laws and make it their own.
EXACTLY
no offence to religious ppl but religions don't make sense AT ALL. If someone wants to challenge this, comment down why a practice/ritual/god's existence etc from ANY religion makes sense. I don't think god exists and I think all this stuff doesn't make any sense but it'd be nice to know if it somehow does lol
Many peoples reason for belief is different there's not one standard answer. I think a big point is that religion provides an answer to how and why we were created. Yes there are scientific answers like the big bang theory, yet then the question comes up what created the elements needed for the big bang to occur in the first place and its a never ending cycle.
It quite literally does give an answer. It provides people with the answer to why and how they were created. Weather that answer is right or wrong is one thing. People choose to believe that answer is right hence they follow it. Its simple
ok then sure maybe. But then why do some gay ppl out of everyone still follow those religions? Bc well most religions do say that homosexuality is wrong.
>I will preface this by saying that I respect all religion and am in no way trying to be discriminatory.
You should be respecting human beings, never religions.
And to answer your question, it depends on his specific beliefs on whether Islam is anti-gay or not. Sex during Ramadan among heterosexuals is also restricted so he might have applied the same restrictions with you. Did he view being gay, dating and having sex with you as a sin?
He is kind of bending parts of the religion, but so are other people with other aspects (excess drinking normally and not drinking at all during Ramadan). If he follows other teachings from his religion, like not eating pork and prays, then I think not having sex or kissing during Ramadan is fine – it’s not a gay think, sex (and kissing, or at least as I was thought) as a whole is prohibited for anyone during Ramadan.
So I think it’s just him following his religion as much as he can.
[EDIT] sinning during Ramadan is at least twice as bad…
Orthodox Jews cannot have sex during certain holidays including fast days and when in mourning as well as men and women every month but some of my gay male Jewish friends work around it like some gay Muslim men. If there's a will there's always a way. And doing the deed on Shabbat is considered a double mitzvah (commandment/good deed). 🔥😀
During the daytime in Ramadan, abstaining from physical pleasures and food is meant to foster greater empathy towards those in need. That's why sexual activity during the daytime is prohibited.
It's also considered a sin in many religions.
Israeli American Jew here- dated a French Moroccan Muslim for a year and change. I was more religious than him but we are both pretty liberal young men who don’t take religion at face value. He only fasted the first day of Ramadan so we didn’t fuck that night and I do the same for the Jewish day of Atonement, Yom Kippur. Neither of us was religious but we loved that we each had a similar cultural practice that we could support eachother through. It was such a fun relationship learning that our cultures really have more in common than not- lots of Israelis come from Morocco and Morocco gots a lot of traditions from many middle eastern diaspora cultures!!
What's there to pity? People living their lives based on morals they have acquired from their choice to believe in religon? If anything I admire that persons strength in their faith since they've probably recieved prejudice from the Muslim community for being gay and the gay community for choosing to have faith
Idk. I haven't met muslims from all parts of the world honestly. Just met the ones growing up in India and now see a few in Sweden. Pretty much everyone who is liberal or from gay community is like not into the faith thing but just keeps on the culture you know, like celebrates certain festival but that is it, no other religious activity or belief. I mean here at least you can sometimes see a lot of younger gen immigrants who are still religious but back in India, lol most of the gen z Muslims (depends on the region) are non practising, feminists and pretty liberal. I haven't met any gay/queer Muslim or even liberal Muslims who pray and go to mosque and do all that. But like I said, I haven't been to other parts of the world. Imo, if you are educated you can pick and choose, if you are willfully picking to be miserable than that is a pity and with islam its pretty conservative in terms of theology, I don't think anyone can keep their faith while being from LGBT community, What OP is saying, I have never seen it because the probability of that is low.
That's fair tbh. I'm from England, and I have met, grown up with and have friends that are Muslims most of them have been Liberal and a few have been lesbian or gay themselves and they've still been very connected to their religon. As long as their following the religon by their own choice, and it provides them enlightment I don't see why i should pity them just cause I hold a different opinion and belief?
Could it be a belief on his part that, during Ramadan, Allah is watching more closely? I'm quite serious, because many Christians have this same belief in regard to Easter and other Christian holidays, and, really, anytime you're in a church. Pretty sure this is why, when you were a little kid, you had to dress up when you go to church.
As one of the Five Pillars of Islam, fasting during Ramadan (which includes sex) is a much more important rule than a lot of the others that get broken regularly.
Think of rules like the ten commandments compared to not wearing clothes woven of two fibers. Obviously a ten comandment rule is a bigger taboo.
In hinduism, eating meat is prohibited. But religious people still do eat meat, except on tuesdays (because of religious reasons). So somehow they think that tuesday is extra religious but they are ready to bend the rules for other days of the week. So same logic here
Some people bend the rules however they like. I know a gay muslim that is married to a man and has an open relationship and fucks around. However, he does not drink alcohol because he is muslim (but does do drugs) and fasts for Ramadan 🤷♂️
I have had a lot of people point out that Muslims are “brainwashed” in a way - that the religion is such a part of their culture that they truly cannot separate themselves from it. Your friend here is an example of that. Wouldn’t it be easier to just say “I’m not going to be a Muslim anymore” and move on?
I was raised Christian, but once I learned that I didn’t agree with that religion it was very easy for me to just say fuck it.
To be honest it is not just muslims. I have also a gay uncle that is catholic and super religious and does all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify himself and the church 🤷♂️
I guess for some people it is just very hard to get rid of the brainwashing they were exposed to as a kid
It's also usually just ignorance of the natural sciences/world. Many theists will default to "look at the trees, look at the mountains, they're so complex and therefore God." Ignorance is bliss and far easier than putting in the effort to *actually* understand our complex reality.
Being gay is a sin in all Abrahamic religions regardless of religion be it Christian, Jewish or Muslim. All three prohibit homosexuality and per the Bible/Talmud/Quran the punishment is the same.
That said. Most liberal Muslims don’t follow their religion in every aspect and will eat foods that aren’t Haram and drink alcohol. Same with Jews who don’t keep Kosher and Christians who eat meat on Fridays and don’t follow the strict guidelines of the faith.
Most reformists be they Jew, Christian or Muslim. Don’t follow the edicts on sexuality. If they did nobody would masturbate, sex would only be between a man and his wife as well as only in a missionary position with nobody being able to see each other and no orgasm which is born of enjoyment as that is a sin and sex is strictly for procreation. Even for straight people it would be absolutely miserable to follow the Abrahamic tradition on sex. Both men and women would be very frustrated by the lack of intimacy and sexual gratification. Actually that might explain why conservative religious people are so angry all the time. They can’t even relief the tension with their own hands.
I had a Muslim FWB who'd come over about 9pm. We'd exchange pleasantries until the official sunset time. I'd have dinner ready and then it was pour drink, eat, dick out in that order.
He obviously wasn't very religious, but Ramadan at a base level meant something to him.
I can relate because I love Christmas and was raised Christian, but I'm totally not religious.
Also, if you want to really overthink it, my Christian religion is also terribly anti-gay, and so are it's most radical followers. Not sure Islam is much different in this respect.
Straight Muslims do this with their girlfriends they’re not supposed to have too, there is no logic. I guess they’re trying to be good muslim as much as they can.
I’m a bisexual Muslim. Sexuality is my biggest struggle.
I believe Men are my forbidden fruit which I am supposed to not take a bite of (but fail many times). But I believe God is merciful and will forgive me if I ask for it.
Every Muslim is different, we’re just trying to make it through this life day by day.
Ex Muslim gay speaking, they're not following the doctrine properly. This is typical behavior of Muslims in general; picking and choosing what suits them and act most high and mighty during Ramadan.
I live in a Muslim country still mind you. I don't fast anymore, and sometimes I have to eat outside during the days I go to uni in the early morning. The way I get dirty looks and some drama queens not keeping their mouth shut about it is nothing short of supremely pathetic and obnoxious.
I’m in Dubai, so I often forget I am in a Muslim country. Nothing really changes here during Ramadan, but if you leave this area you quickly remember. 🤣
To fast you don't just with hold on water and food it includes numerous things like sexual fantasies, hence him being gay doesn't actually mean he wouldn't still have had to restrain himself.
People of all religions pretty much just pick and choose what they believe (or want to believe), usually to suit their own value systems or agendas.
Which is exactly why I don't see the point of organised religion.
Sexual acts whether gay or straight are forbidden whilst fasting. Fasting isn’t just about not eating. The month of Ramadan is a time where you refrain from certain pleasures and desires to improve your character.
1. Fasting helps you feel for the hungry because you feel a fraction of what they feel making you more humble and charitable.
2. It strengthens your will power helping you strive for goals and betterment.
3. It actually gives you time to think and makes you less selfish and more empathetic by making you refrain from things like sex and teaches self control.
It essentially makes you appreciate things you have in life by taking them away from you between sunrise and sun set which leads to you feeling more fulfilled and happy in life. For example, think of Elon Musk, he’s the wealthiest man on earth and will never be in financial trouble no matter how much he spends in his life time but because he is a megalomaniac, he wants more and more and is driven by money and power and when you are overdriven by something like money, you will never be satisfied because you always want more. Elon musk works constantly to increase his wealth when he already has way more than enough.
Me personally, I am unsure about if I still believe in Islam. There is a lot of beauty in the religion and it has helped life easier. For example, interest in Islam is forbidden because it’s considered immoral and because of this I have never been in debt which just increases overtime and am more financially smart because I have to spend my money wisely. I still fast in Ramadan because I do personally feel like it builds my character and pay the Sadaqah and zakhat which is essentially charity and a tax on Muslims where they must pay a certain amount of money to charitable causes based on their assets.
All in all, there is beauty in religions and they have greatly improved humanity over the years and given people a moral code to live by but parts of it can be outdated.
I think when these religions were created, they were created with the intention to create good but religion can easily become twisted to control masses and on top of that, we cannot judge people of the past for some of their beliefs because as a species we are for the most part constantly learning and improving and it is our job to improve what was left by our ancestors.
Either he explained horribly or you misunderstood him.
Everyone, be they straight or not, are not allowed to have any sexual or romantic intimacy of any kind during the hours of fasting. Fasting is not just about not eating. It is about giving your all to do what Allah requested during the daylight hours for the sake of God in selflessness.
Here are most of the things a Muslim is not allowed to do or engage in during fasting hours:
Sexuality
Kissing
Intimacy
Ejaculating
Masturbation
Eating anything at all
Drinking anything at all
Sins: lying, backbiting, talking crap, cussing, being unkind to others, etc
There might be more, but those are the major ones that I can remember.
As someone who is questioning their faith (Islam) and is agnostic at best — it's always been like that. It's always been "Why aren't you fasting, why aren't you praying" well Jake why aren't you observing lent?
Muslims are somehow held to a higher standard in the Western world. Maybe in part of seeing them more devout than other Abrahamic sects maybe in part due to the animosity.
This sub also feels strongly against them and yes I can't blame them but I would welcome people to apply that disdain on an even keel to other religions as well.
I'm sure I'm going to get replies about how only Muslims kill homos or something.
I agree with you, this sub is shockingly Islamophobic. You can’t bring up Islam here without somebody talking about how Muslims kill gay people; even under my comment someone was spewing that BS. It’s absurd.
Yeah Christian countries do as well. Look at African Christian countries, Jamaica, etc. There’s so many countries that are anti gay. Not just Muslims. Look at Russia. Being gay isn’t acceptable in Christianity and orthodox faiths. We in the West have now become so secular we don’t enforce the edicts of the faith which would result in killing people for fornicating, masturbating, and committing acts of sodomy of any kind.
all what you said stands, the christian world was MUCH more homophobic until relatively recently but the muslim world remains blatantly homophobic and it stands in contrast to secular west
plus, islam is the world's second biggest religion, ofc that everyone will focus on its homophobia
Guys, even heterosexual Muslims also do not have sex while they are fasting during Ramadan. Essentially the rule is not to have erotic thoughts during fasting. After breaking the fast, you can do it. It's just for a month. And if you want to know in detail, essentially Muslims need to pray during day time while fasting and if they have sex, the body is not considered clean after semen ejaculation. So you'll notice, if you have sex at night, he'll bathe before he starts his fast again the next day.
If you are not muslims how can you say it is against the religion?
There are different types of Christians, some hate gays, others totally accept us. It's the same thing for Muslims, although it can be said that in general it is a more reactionary religion
You answered yourself. It's a religion. The dude you dated was obviously bending the rules when it comes to Islam, but otherwise yes, it's a sin no matter what. Fucking during Ramadan is probably twice as bad, hence the hesitation. Edit: Not that I find it logical, it's just set of rules some people want to believe and that's it.
I assume this, as well. I just want to hear a Muslim actually answer this and see how he explains it from the Islamic perspective.
They would just cherry pick like any other religious person does when their 'teachings' conflict with their lifestyle or moralities. It's why one sect of Christians can have a female lesbian pastor lead their congregation while yet another would gladly see that same pastor killed - both are reading from the same book!
When you are brought up with religion, the teachings are imbedded into from birth and so it can be very scary to leave a religion so people start kidding themselves. There is also a lot of good in religious teachings that people that aren’t associated with that religion don’t understand. It’s not always as simple as cherry picking, in Islam, the general consensus is that you can be homosexual but you cannot act upon your feelings as it is a test so some people will remain in the folds of Islam but will constantly feel ashamed and will obviously find it hard to refrain from homosexuality seeing as we are innately programmed to want to have sex so they start delving deeper into certain texts and delude themselves into thinking homosexual relationships are permitted in Abrahamic religions.
Not exactly. In Ramadan, your fast breaks if you engage in sexual activity be it straight or gay. Fasting is about abstaining from daily pleasures, it’s not simply about not eating and drinking. It’s supposed to build character and make you feel more appreciative and fulfilled by taking away things you take for granted in your everyday life. It’s an aspect of Islam I’ve always liked, so many people today are unhappy because we always want more and are never satisfied with what we have and I don’t mean being in hardships such as poverty and wanting to get out, I’m talking about for example people that are overly driven by money and could end up making enough to never be financially insecure through their whole life but will continue trying to make more and more when they really don’t need it. Given it’s the most holy month in Islam and is the month where Muslims believe the worst of demons and evil entities are chained up during this month to prevent them influencing people to do bad, a lot of Muslims will try to abstain more from sin. In OP’s case, I think it’s simply a case of the fast not breaking, the fasting lasts between sunrise and sunset and if you intentionally break one of the rules from fasting such as eating or having sex then the fast becomes invalid and to atone for breaking a fast, you must feed 60 people. If OP’s boyfriend forgot he was fasting and kissed OP but then realised and stops then the fast does not break. EDIT: By your use of probably, I’m assuming you’re not Muslim or don’t come from an Islamic background so if you could please refrain from answering these sorts of questions to prevent misinformation being spread and misconceptions. In this case it is minor and I’m not having a go, it’s just that I do come from an Islamic background and people have often assumed things about me and Muslims in general because of misconceptions and misinformation.
lmao tl;dr
Fasting includes water, food, bad language, sexual desires till you break your fast He would be doing the same if he was straight and had a wife
This needs to be higher up. There are mental/spiritual benefits to fasting according to many religions. Same goes for prayer, charitable donations, family/community and other important tenets of Islam. Just because certain aspects of the religion are intolerant/absolutist doesn't mean everything about it is bad. The religious conservatives don't hold the copyright to their respective religions, no matter how much they will try to say they do. Besides, of all the self-destructive things that so many gay men do, OP's gripe is about refraining from sex during daylight hours for one month a year, in accordance with a 1,000+ year old family tradition? There are worse things in life.
Ex-Muslim, and you hit the nail on the head. Hell, some of the non-Muslim friends I grew up with fast the first week or so just outta solidarity. It's an identity thing, past the religious bit. I grew up on little stories from the old country like the old dude in the village who'd sneak fruits and candy to fasting kids, cute shit like that.
Very well explained
People bend rules to all religions in order to adapt to modern life. This is a moderating force and should be supported. They probably do it just because Ramadan is a particularly special thing. Kind of like Christian’s that go to church on Easter but hardly go the rest of the year. People not being fundamentalists is great, let’s encourage them adapting religion to modern life.
This is not unique to Muslims, gay sex is also a sin for Catholics even if the church is starting to realise its position in untenable in the west, but the official stance hasn’t changed. And yet in catholic countries a lot of gays invent ways of living with it. By the way I’m not equating the catholic and Muslim stance on gay sex, the opposition is not as strong for catholics these days. But the if you want to see how people make it work (or not), people of other faiths do the same.
The difference is gay catholics will fuck all year long. Muslims don’t do it during sunlight hours of Ramadan.
Actually traditionally you’re not to have sex during the high holidays. Easter, Christmas, many give it up during Lent all those periods you’re supposed to be chaste and committed to Christ in prayer, actions and deeds. No sex, no masturbation, no sinful behavior. This isn’t Catholics only, but Orthodox Christians, Protestants also have similar beliefs on sex during the holy days. You’re usually meant to be pure and sex is impure and only to be done for procreation not pleasure.
One particular Muslim you know doesn’t fuck during daylight hours during Ramadan. Don’t take this guy’s observance as a universal observance.
Unfortunately my experience with all Muslim men has been the same - no fucking during Ramadan daylight.
It's not that upsetting tho, come evening it's fair game.
Who is upset about it?
[удалено]
Who said I considered it a “deep” issue?
Because it isn't about gay sex, all sex is forbidden in daylight hours during Ramadan for Muslims
It’s very ironic the Muslim men you’ve dated all refused to have sex in the day during Ramadan when gay sex/intimacy is not allowed at all in Islam. My guess is they’re subconsciously so deeply rooted and part of the inherent homophobic system that they’ve internalised and adopted Islamic laws and make it their own.
EXACTLY no offence to religious ppl but religions don't make sense AT ALL. If someone wants to challenge this, comment down why a practice/ritual/god's existence etc from ANY religion makes sense. I don't think god exists and I think all this stuff doesn't make any sense but it'd be nice to know if it somehow does lol
Many peoples reason for belief is different there's not one standard answer. I think a big point is that religion provides an answer to how and why we were created. Yes there are scientific answers like the big bang theory, yet then the question comes up what created the elements needed for the big bang to occur in the first place and its a never ending cycle.
it doesn't give an answer. It's a f-ing cult. It tells you lies. I mean most religions say that homosexuality is wrong. Do you believe it?
It quite literally does give an answer. It provides people with the answer to why and how they were created. Weather that answer is right or wrong is one thing. People choose to believe that answer is right hence they follow it. Its simple
ok then sure maybe. But then why do some gay ppl out of everyone still follow those religions? Bc well most religions do say that homosexuality is wrong.
>I will preface this by saying that I respect all religion and am in no way trying to be discriminatory. You should be respecting human beings, never religions. And to answer your question, it depends on his specific beliefs on whether Islam is anti-gay or not. Sex during Ramadan among heterosexuals is also restricted so he might have applied the same restrictions with you. Did he view being gay, dating and having sex with you as a sin?
He is kind of bending parts of the religion, but so are other people with other aspects (excess drinking normally and not drinking at all during Ramadan). If he follows other teachings from his religion, like not eating pork and prays, then I think not having sex or kissing during Ramadan is fine – it’s not a gay think, sex (and kissing, or at least as I was thought) as a whole is prohibited for anyone during Ramadan. So I think it’s just him following his religion as much as he can. [EDIT] sinning during Ramadan is at least twice as bad…
Thanks for this response. 👏🏾
Orthodox Jews cannot have sex during certain holidays including fast days and when in mourning as well as men and women every month but some of my gay male Jewish friends work around it like some gay Muslim men. If there's a will there's always a way. And doing the deed on Shabbat is considered a double mitzvah (commandment/good deed). 🔥😀
Religion and logic/common sense don't go hand in hand. People just like to live in denial.
During the daytime in Ramadan, abstaining from physical pleasures and food is meant to foster greater empathy towards those in need. That's why sexual activity during the daytime is prohibited. It's also considered a sin in many religions.
My bf is muslim and we're not talking about intimate stuff until he breaks his fast lol
Israeli American Jew here- dated a French Moroccan Muslim for a year and change. I was more religious than him but we are both pretty liberal young men who don’t take religion at face value. He only fasted the first day of Ramadan so we didn’t fuck that night and I do the same for the Jewish day of Atonement, Yom Kippur. Neither of us was religious but we loved that we each had a similar cultural practice that we could support eachother through. It was such a fun relationship learning that our cultures really have more in common than not- lots of Israelis come from Morocco and Morocco gots a lot of traditions from many middle eastern diaspora cultures!!
I just pity them honestly what else can you do.
What's there to pity? People living their lives based on morals they have acquired from their choice to believe in religon? If anything I admire that persons strength in their faith since they've probably recieved prejudice from the Muslim community for being gay and the gay community for choosing to have faith
Idk. I haven't met muslims from all parts of the world honestly. Just met the ones growing up in India and now see a few in Sweden. Pretty much everyone who is liberal or from gay community is like not into the faith thing but just keeps on the culture you know, like celebrates certain festival but that is it, no other religious activity or belief. I mean here at least you can sometimes see a lot of younger gen immigrants who are still religious but back in India, lol most of the gen z Muslims (depends on the region) are non practising, feminists and pretty liberal. I haven't met any gay/queer Muslim or even liberal Muslims who pray and go to mosque and do all that. But like I said, I haven't been to other parts of the world. Imo, if you are educated you can pick and choose, if you are willfully picking to be miserable than that is a pity and with islam its pretty conservative in terms of theology, I don't think anyone can keep their faith while being from LGBT community, What OP is saying, I have never seen it because the probability of that is low.
That's fair tbh. I'm from England, and I have met, grown up with and have friends that are Muslims most of them have been Liberal and a few have been lesbian or gay themselves and they've still been very connected to their religon. As long as their following the religon by their own choice, and it provides them enlightment I don't see why i should pity them just cause I hold a different opinion and belief?
They believe that fasting in ramadan will clear them of their previous sins. So thats whats going on in their head...
Could it be a belief on his part that, during Ramadan, Allah is watching more closely? I'm quite serious, because many Christians have this same belief in regard to Easter and other Christian holidays, and, really, anytime you're in a church. Pretty sure this is why, when you were a little kid, you had to dress up when you go to church.
As one of the Five Pillars of Islam, fasting during Ramadan (which includes sex) is a much more important rule than a lot of the others that get broken regularly. Think of rules like the ten commandments compared to not wearing clothes woven of two fibers. Obviously a ten comandment rule is a bigger taboo.
I have only heard of gay Muslims but never met one they seem interesting though
It's like Zayn Malik who said I didn't eat pork but still having a daughter with Gigi Hadid outside the marriage. I also didn't get it.
In hinduism, eating meat is prohibited. But religious people still do eat meat, except on tuesdays (because of religious reasons). So somehow they think that tuesday is extra religious but they are ready to bend the rules for other days of the week. So same logic here
They already believe all sort of absurd líes, what is one more?
Some people bend the rules however they like. I know a gay muslim that is married to a man and has an open relationship and fucks around. However, he does not drink alcohol because he is muslim (but does do drugs) and fasts for Ramadan 🤷♂️
I have had a lot of people point out that Muslims are “brainwashed” in a way - that the religion is such a part of their culture that they truly cannot separate themselves from it. Your friend here is an example of that. Wouldn’t it be easier to just say “I’m not going to be a Muslim anymore” and move on? I was raised Christian, but once I learned that I didn’t agree with that religion it was very easy for me to just say fuck it.
To be honest it is not just muslims. I have also a gay uncle that is catholic and super religious and does all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify himself and the church 🤷♂️ I guess for some people it is just very hard to get rid of the brainwashing they were exposed to as a kid
It's also usually just ignorance of the natural sciences/world. Many theists will default to "look at the trees, look at the mountains, they're so complex and therefore God." Ignorance is bliss and far easier than putting in the effort to *actually* understand our complex reality.
Being gay is a sin in all Abrahamic religions regardless of religion be it Christian, Jewish or Muslim. All three prohibit homosexuality and per the Bible/Talmud/Quran the punishment is the same. That said. Most liberal Muslims don’t follow their religion in every aspect and will eat foods that aren’t Haram and drink alcohol. Same with Jews who don’t keep Kosher and Christians who eat meat on Fridays and don’t follow the strict guidelines of the faith. Most reformists be they Jew, Christian or Muslim. Don’t follow the edicts on sexuality. If they did nobody would masturbate, sex would only be between a man and his wife as well as only in a missionary position with nobody being able to see each other and no orgasm which is born of enjoyment as that is a sin and sex is strictly for procreation. Even for straight people it would be absolutely miserable to follow the Abrahamic tradition on sex. Both men and women would be very frustrated by the lack of intimacy and sexual gratification. Actually that might explain why conservative religious people are so angry all the time. They can’t even relief the tension with their own hands.
I had a Muslim FWB who'd come over about 9pm. We'd exchange pleasantries until the official sunset time. I'd have dinner ready and then it was pour drink, eat, dick out in that order. He obviously wasn't very religious, but Ramadan at a base level meant something to him. I can relate because I love Christmas and was raised Christian, but I'm totally not religious. Also, if you want to really overthink it, my Christian religion is also terribly anti-gay, and so are it's most radical followers. Not sure Islam is much different in this respect.
Straight Muslims do this with their girlfriends they’re not supposed to have too, there is no logic. I guess they’re trying to be good muslim as much as they can. I’m a bisexual Muslim. Sexuality is my biggest struggle. I believe Men are my forbidden fruit which I am supposed to not take a bite of (but fail many times). But I believe God is merciful and will forgive me if I ask for it. Every Muslim is different, we’re just trying to make it through this life day by day.
Men are not your forbidden fruit. Don’t let religion indoctrinate you into believing your innate sexual wrong.
Thanks for your response. 👍🏾
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You’re free to believe that
Ex Muslim gay speaking, they're not following the doctrine properly. This is typical behavior of Muslims in general; picking and choosing what suits them and act most high and mighty during Ramadan.
I think this is kind of the answer I was looking for. I see A LOT of acting superior during Ramadan. 🙄
I live in a Muslim country still mind you. I don't fast anymore, and sometimes I have to eat outside during the days I go to uni in the early morning. The way I get dirty looks and some drama queens not keeping their mouth shut about it is nothing short of supremely pathetic and obnoxious.
I’m in Dubai, so I often forget I am in a Muslim country. Nothing really changes here during Ramadan, but if you leave this area you quickly remember. 🤣
Not to be rude, but it is as stupid as saying "I am a vegan that eats meat"
To fast you don't just with hold on water and food it includes numerous things like sexual fantasies, hence him being gay doesn't actually mean he wouldn't still have had to restrain himself.
It's not logical, it's a huge sin. I hooked up with a man yesterday after sunset too and I'm not gonna claim that it's okay religiously.
People of all religions pretty much just pick and choose what they believe (or want to believe), usually to suit their own value systems or agendas. Which is exactly why I don't see the point of organised religion.
This is exactly why I left Islam. Not the religion itself, the hypocrisy of muslims. Gay muslims are just a completely different breed.
I love you respecting all religions and in no way trying to be discriminatory here <3
Better man than me.
I don't respect any religion lol.
Can’t stand religion, especially the ‘big three’.
Sexual acts whether gay or straight are forbidden whilst fasting. Fasting isn’t just about not eating. The month of Ramadan is a time where you refrain from certain pleasures and desires to improve your character. 1. Fasting helps you feel for the hungry because you feel a fraction of what they feel making you more humble and charitable. 2. It strengthens your will power helping you strive for goals and betterment. 3. It actually gives you time to think and makes you less selfish and more empathetic by making you refrain from things like sex and teaches self control. It essentially makes you appreciate things you have in life by taking them away from you between sunrise and sun set which leads to you feeling more fulfilled and happy in life. For example, think of Elon Musk, he’s the wealthiest man on earth and will never be in financial trouble no matter how much he spends in his life time but because he is a megalomaniac, he wants more and more and is driven by money and power and when you are overdriven by something like money, you will never be satisfied because you always want more. Elon musk works constantly to increase his wealth when he already has way more than enough. Me personally, I am unsure about if I still believe in Islam. There is a lot of beauty in the religion and it has helped life easier. For example, interest in Islam is forbidden because it’s considered immoral and because of this I have never been in debt which just increases overtime and am more financially smart because I have to spend my money wisely. I still fast in Ramadan because I do personally feel like it builds my character and pay the Sadaqah and zakhat which is essentially charity and a tax on Muslims where they must pay a certain amount of money to charitable causes based on their assets. All in all, there is beauty in religions and they have greatly improved humanity over the years and given people a moral code to live by but parts of it can be outdated. I think when these religions were created, they were created with the intention to create good but religion can easily become twisted to control masses and on top of that, we cannot judge people of the past for some of their beliefs because as a species we are for the most part constantly learning and improving and it is our job to improve what was left by our ancestors.
Either he explained horribly or you misunderstood him. Everyone, be they straight or not, are not allowed to have any sexual or romantic intimacy of any kind during the hours of fasting. Fasting is not just about not eating. It is about giving your all to do what Allah requested during the daylight hours for the sake of God in selflessness. Here are most of the things a Muslim is not allowed to do or engage in during fasting hours: Sexuality Kissing Intimacy Ejaculating Masturbation Eating anything at all Drinking anything at all Sins: lying, backbiting, talking crap, cussing, being unkind to others, etc There might be more, but those are the major ones that I can remember.
Why is this only aimed at Muslims and not literally any other religion?
As someone who is questioning their faith (Islam) and is agnostic at best — it's always been like that. It's always been "Why aren't you fasting, why aren't you praying" well Jake why aren't you observing lent? Muslims are somehow held to a higher standard in the Western world. Maybe in part of seeing them more devout than other Abrahamic sects maybe in part due to the animosity. This sub also feels strongly against them and yes I can't blame them but I would welcome people to apply that disdain on an even keel to other religions as well. I'm sure I'm going to get replies about how only Muslims kill homos or something.
I agree with you, this sub is shockingly Islamophobic. You can’t bring up Islam here without somebody talking about how Muslims kill gay people; even under my comment someone was spewing that BS. It’s absurd.
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Eat my circumcised cock fuckface.
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Your mum's nerve. Scream into the ether
because vast majority of the countries that kill people for being gay are muslim majority countries 😃
The question is about logical fallacies in religion, not about killing gay people.
you can't separate one from another to get an answer
I don’t think I follow
Yeah Christian countries do as well. Look at African Christian countries, Jamaica, etc. There’s so many countries that are anti gay. Not just Muslims. Look at Russia. Being gay isn’t acceptable in Christianity and orthodox faiths. We in the West have now become so secular we don’t enforce the edicts of the faith which would result in killing people for fornicating, masturbating, and committing acts of sodomy of any kind.
all what you said stands, the christian world was MUCH more homophobic until relatively recently but the muslim world remains blatantly homophobic and it stands in contrast to secular west plus, islam is the world's second biggest religion, ofc that everyone will focus on its homophobia
Because Muslims are the ones who observe Ramadan. (?) I’m not sure why that is difficult to understand
Literally all religions are filled with logical fallacies though, and that seems to be the focus of your question, is it not?
Nope. The focus of my question was Muslim men who swear off cock during Ramadan daylight.
Guys, even heterosexual Muslims also do not have sex while they are fasting during Ramadan. Essentially the rule is not to have erotic thoughts during fasting. After breaking the fast, you can do it. It's just for a month. And if you want to know in detail, essentially Muslims need to pray during day time while fasting and if they have sex, the body is not considered clean after semen ejaculation. So you'll notice, if you have sex at night, he'll bathe before he starts his fast again the next day.
It's is mainly the abrahamic religions that are hostile to gay people?
Those are the only religions I am familiar with, so I’m not comfortable making a claim otherwise.
If you are not muslims how can you say it is against the religion? There are different types of Christians, some hate gays, others totally accept us. It's the same thing for Muslims, although it can be said that in general it is a more reactionary religion