Every religion has their own mental gymnastics on what is/isn't hypocrisy.
So here's the TLDR:
Depending on upbringing it is the duty of Muslims to make the world Islam.
Any land claimed by muslims belongs to Islam. Period.
It's part of Dar al Salm. Anything outside of that is Dar al Harb. Wading through that would take more time.
Any land that was claimed by muslims but is occupied by other people is considered 'occupied territory' which feeds into the 'Islam is under attack' narrative.
There is a heirarchy in Islam and Palestinians are pretty low on in. If they're attacked by non-muslims then they are 'brothers' and must be defended/protected/etc.
Unless another Muslim country decides to wipe them out.
Then it's none of anybody's business.
> There is a heirarchy in Islam and Palestinians are pretty low on in.
Why?
Edit: not sure why I'm being downvoted, I'm genuinely asking. Maybe this is common knowledge in the islamic world. Maybe because they have no country and have to submit to another religion and not Allah and it's seen as weak?
Same as any other culture/religion/etc. People are people.
There's people to look up to and people to look down on.
They might not be 'muslim enough' or any other made-up reason people believe anything.
Same as you got with Christianity.
There were initially the "Real Christians" and "Converted Christians" and "We'll call them Christians" as the religion spread - especially involving the 'barbarian notherners'.
Then you had the schism, and Catholic versus Orthodox. But when it came to Crusades, both were Christian still, but they looked down on each other.
Then there were further splits, leading to Protestants and all the other goody divisions of Christianity that we are familiar with today. And many of those are looked down on by some/all other groups.
Just look at Latter-Day Saints today, or the Protestants 100-200 years ago.
Or look at the Christian Kingdom of Ethiopia, which was fighting for it's survival in a world surrounding by Islam for centuries, and was basically viewed the same way Tywin Lannister looked at Tyrion. Sure he was blood, but he was still THAT THING.
Which is my general commentary on religion in general :P
If you're a good person, you don't need religion telling you to be good.
If you're an evil person, religion won't stop you from being evil - it'll just remind you to hide it.
Religion just helps people who are willing to be good or evil, and give them an imaginary (or real, who knows) reason to be good instead of evil.
And the result is that religion is full of evil people pretending to be good (to get the rewards for being good), good people being good (which they'd do even without religion), and middle-of-the-road people being neutral or good because they won't want to risk spiritual punishment.
Which really is no different than the world without religion, where society (even without religion) punishes people for not being good, so evil people hide their evil, neutral people mostly stay neutral, and good people still find ways to do good.
I mean. That's literally always the case everywhere for any demographic. They always care more when it's perpetrated against them rather than against others. This has been true for the entire history of humanity.
No they didn’t, they are giving priority and a faster way to religious minorities persecuted in Muslim majority countries, like Afghanistan and Pakistan to immigrate to India. Muslim still can immigrate to India.
Lmao you think muslims put other religions and atheists on the same level as them? I've never met anything like an honest muslim dude. They lie their hearts out, especially against non muslims. it's like a cult.
It’s [TAQIYYA all the way every day](https://www.google.com/search?q=takyya+lying+in+islam&client=safari&sca_esv=7479081811d2e948&hl=en-es&sxsrf=ACQVn0-B5j5rkDVgmBoUV3Fa22Q6Hffwhw%3A1710255032259&ei=uGvwZfirD-GBhbIPxtKDmAs&oq=takyya+lying+in+islam&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhV0YWt5eWEgbHlpbmcgaW4gaXNsYW0yCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEi5OVCeFli3N3AAeACQAQCYAbECoAGgGKoBCDAuMTMuMi4xuAEDyAEA-AEBmAIMoALoEsICChAAGIAEGLADGArCAgoQABiABBgKGLADwgIQEC4YgAQYChjIAxiwA9gBAcICFhAuGIAEGAoYxwEYrwEYyAMYsAPYAQHCAgwQABiABBgNGEYY_wHCAgcQABiABBgNwgIIEAAYCBgeGA3CAgYQABgeGA3CAgcQIRgKGKABmAMAiAYBkAYQugYECAEYCJIHBzAuOS4yLjGgB5tC&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp). The Muslims justification is that lying to infidels is just totally ok and a pious thing to do.
Have you ever heard that Islam means peace ?
Well , that’s taqiyya. [Because Islam literally translates as the word “submission”](https://www.metmuseum.org/learn/educators/curriculum-resources/art-of-the-islamic-world/introduction/frequently-asked-questions)
‘Submission to god’. And Islam only means peace if you stretch the truth and come up with a convoluted saying that “once everyone is a Muslim in the world” there will be peace. Really silly argument some spin when faced with the fact that Islam does NOT actually-mean-peace. It literally means submission… just don’t look behind the curtain
Everything you hear said towards non-Muslims in English has a high chance of being carefully sanitized for western ears. there are even English Quran that have the nasty verses deleted. [Check the skeptics annotated page for verses that really do not mince words.](https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/all/int_list.html)
This is correct. The world islam (إسلام) is derived from the arabic world (إستسلام) which means submission, so islam literally means submiting to god. And islam has two types of jihad (جهاد) which means fighting, and they're jihad al dafaa, it is to fight to push the enemy back, and jihad al talab, and it's to attack the enemy in their home. And the latter is what made islam spread.
And btw any translated version of Quran is kurf (herasy) despite it including all the nasty verses or not. You must learn arabic if you wanna read Quran. And unfortunetly we were forced to learn it by the syrian regime.
Wait...the Syrian regime if the baath party made you learn Arabic? Or learn the Quran?
(Not sure if the 'it' refers to the Quran or to Arabic)
Surprised... because thought baath was a bit of secular ideology, stated by a Christian ?
Arabic is the most spoken language in Syria, but it's not necessary to know arabic in the Kurdish region (the north-east) where like 80% of people speak kurdish. Tbh, like any language, knowing arabic is useful, but they were trying to arabize us, so teaching kurdish in schools was banned (still is in the regime's schools) celebrating Newroz was banned till the early 2000's, and back in the 80's, even speaking kurdish will lead to you being arrested.
Cool . So the teaching of Arabic is more for arabization than Islamization (as Kurds are mostly Muslim already?)
Would be difficult to arrest 80% of a region:...even if all the other 20 percent became cops:-)
I mean Christianity in the US has thanfullly not fully be integrated in the federal government... But for certain state, of course.
I was mainly talking about Islam and how it is the core of many governments. I saw news where in Pakistan they condemned someone to death for insulting a prophet... That's the kind of thing I was talking about.
In the USA they have separation between church and state. I'd invite you to travel to some Islamic countries as a point of comparison.
Sure, there other countries in the world that are a little bit more secular than the USA (in practice), but at least the USA has its secularism written into its founding documents. Try going to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Qatar, Turkey, Sudan, Lebanon, Jordan, etc.
Try to openly practice a religion not called Islam in most Muslim-majority countries on earth and see how it goes.
American hardcore Christians might beat you up or even kill you for being a Muslim, but the US as a whole doesn’t have laws that legalize that act. Unlike blasphemy laws in Iran for example.
I mean, do you know any Muslims in real life? Because I have definitely met "honest" Muslims before. Though, to be fair, in the circles I run in, people are more "ethnically/culturally" Muslim than actual believers. And I don't know any influencers in real life, lol.
I live in a heavily Muslim area, most aren’t devout followers or anything, but the ones that are have a lot of hate in their hearts as chill as they can be sometimes.
The problem I have not only seen or experienced but my muslim friends have expressed is they would love to make a change or break the cycle but they’re fearful of their own lives. Even if they’re good people, they are influenced and it’s difficult to do what they actually believe is the right thing. It’s sad.
That's how they're raised. Many many many many Islamic cultures despise Israel (the reasons of which are numerous). But, it's brainwashing from a young age to hate israel, and by extention, Jewish people.
PS. I'm obviously not saying this is os the case for *every* Muslim person. But, it is pretty common knowledge.
Antisemitism and Islamic Expansion.
I hate using wikipedia but I am tired so here you go:
[Article about antisemitism in Islam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam)
[Antisemitism in the Arab world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world)
[Muslim Conquest of Persia (there's mmany more but this is relevant here)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Persia)
[Article about Jews under Muslim rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule)
To summerize it really short (and thus not very well):
Muslims see it as their duty to make the whole world muslim and install Islamic rule everywhere. Jewish people have thus been persecuted and discriminated against in the middle east and most left only to be fucked over everywhere else. The rest that stayed got fucked over by the rulers further. After the the Ottoman Empire fell apart Britain got rule over the entire area that was mandatory palestine. Around the end of WW2 Britain decided that it would grand the jewish people in the region (back then called the jewish palestinians) the right to statehood in Israel. Obvs neither jews nor British people are Muslim so that didn't help i guess.
And then it goes into a giant clusterfuck that only the UK could cause but it goes somewhat like this:
- The Arab rulers where already fans of hitler and super antisemitic so they really didn't want jewish people to have their own state, no matter if they come from the middle east or europe
- Israel gets recognized as a state
- The arab nations and Islamic militant groups decide they don't want that and start a war
- they loose the war big time
- The Jewish exodus in the middle east happens and most Jewish people either get expelled from their countries due to israel now existing or they choose to go on their own because they are persecuted in their homecountry and also massive amounts of jews from africa get expelled or flee too and then of course alot of jews flee Europe, especially the soviet states because the soviet union also hates jews tldr: LOTS OF REFUGEES (+ the american zionist movement)
- they get really angry at Israel/The Jews(tm) because the expected things happen when you loose a war
- they all decide they do not accept israel as a nation and continuously try to erase Israel/The Jews from the map by doing the Intifada and the second Intifada and all those attacks
- more and more radical islamic groups (like hamas) straight up go "we want to genocide all jews in the area" because "hey that's OUR LAND you jews go back to where you belong (idk where they think that is, but apparently not the middle east where they came from)
The endgoal is: Israel is gone and therefore also the jews giving muslims what they think is rightfully their land.
Bonus reason: Israel is allies with alot of western countries and THE WEST (tm) is suuuuper unislamic and therefor evil bad (tm)
God i'm so tired i bet none of this makes sense outside of my brain but i am so incredibly tired of it all but mostly of stupid leftists falling for islamic propaganda in an effort to be woke or whatever
That's awfully right. I just wish there was something that could be done against the lack of exposure of other conflicts, just to get a broader picture of what happens in the world.
muslim ban? You're ignoring history of Pakistan and Bangladesh's oppression and genocide against non-muslims. And the fact that these are both muslim nations that oppressed muslims can go to. India is just saying that hindus and other India native religion followers have no where to go and they have a right to getting citizenship there.
> it's hard to tell marketing and propaganda mouthpieces apart from serious **journalism**.
We have to be careful that that word maintains its integrity. Tucker Carlson calls himself a journalist. Chaya Raichik calls herself a journalist. They're purposefully diluting the word so as to sell their takes as meaning more than they really do.
The ban India had placed has been misinterpreted to stew tensions, it’s a way to allow non-Muslim minorities in the Muslim majority countries around India (Pakistan, Bangladesh) to fast-track immigration to India. Why would Muslims be oppressed in Muslim countries, it’s pointless to fast-track immigrants if they’re Muslim.
The Muslim Rohingyas literally killed hundreds of Hindu rohingyas. They can fuck on right off to hell. Plus the Muslim Rohingyas are the ones who started an armed separatist movement during the 40's. They can't have their cake and eat it too.
One thing most of these modern separatist movements have is... religion. Specifically Monotheist ones. But I mean what else do people expect from people who claim there is nothing more supreme than their God and all else are the enemy for not believing in the same thing.
I really think Muslims are winning the social media game, they just seem everywhere, their religion is really attractive to cringe young boys and for some reason girls really like it too, they have so many social media influencers, and try to push their narrative, it’s really scary.
Social right-wing nonsense/populism is definitely on the rise, in my opinion the internet is greatly at fault. We as a species just weren't/aren't ready for something like this yet, and we will pay dearly.
Both Left wing and right wing extremism are on the rise. This is why social media went from a great tool to get inspo, spread information and organize in oppressive places (Arab Spring) .. to a thing that is destroying society.
Antisemitism is rampant in the Muslim world since the early 20th century.
The palestin conflict both happened because of it and promoted that ideology.
And I completely agree, this is just double standards. The Kurds are pretty much in exactly the same pickle as Palestinians, but nobody cares, because it's Muslims doing the (cultural) genocide.
Same goes for the "queers for Palestine" crowd. Hamas would hang them from the nearest crane, but they say Israel is the fascist oppressor state. Where more Palestinians live than in Gaza, in peace, with higher standard of living.
Because they've been raised their whole lives to hate everyone who isn't Muslim, and especially Jews. Antisemitism is so ubiquitous that it's the subject of jokes. And now the Jews have a homeland. One acquired, in large part, at the expense of the Arabic-speaking Muslim Palestinians.
So, a grain of legitimate grievance combined with centuries of frothing-mad religious bigotry is what it comes down to.
It's kind of like how right-wing Christians in America act when an illegal immigrant commits a heinous crime. They love to point that out. Yet they are strangely silent when a white suburban kid commits a mass shooting.
>Because they've been raised their whole lives to hate everyone who isn't Muslim, and especially Jews.
This in particular. As others have mentioned Muslim vs Muslim conflicts tend to get ignored entirely, but even when it's other Muslim vs non-Muslim wars or conflicts (e.g. Uyghur genocide in China, Armenia's occupation of Azerbaijan, India and Pakistan's conflict over Kashmir etc.) there doesn't seem to be any real outcry or social media coverage.
However when it comes to Israel there is nothing but coverage, social media posturing, and condemnation for the only Jewish state in existence.
\--> Aren't the Druze, Dogons or Copts as worthy of attention as Palestinians ?
No. They should be, but they aren't. There is also not attention paid to the number of Muslim Ethiopians that are killed by Suadi Border security...
(https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/21/saudi-arabia-mass-killings-migrants-yemen-border)
Ppl this is not racism. Saying "All ppl from Iran are terrorists who deserve something bad," is racist. Saying extremist and Islam is "Cancer" is somewhat accurate. Just look at all that death. Some 22 year old got sentenced to death in Iran yesterday for something they wrote on the Internet. Islam just isn't the same as other religions.. it truly is a Murder/suicide cult.
Its all fake. Islam is the worst fake. They want to either rule your life or kill you in the name of their fake 'prophet'. They can go fuck themselves.
Hamas is a government. A totalitarian theocracy. Police state. Hamas attacked Israel, a democracy. Israel is attacking Hamas, the government.
Don’t confuse Hamas with Palestinian citizens. At best, they’re in the way, and casualties of war. But the Israelis don’t aim to hurt the citizens. Or at least, not the vast majority (shit happens to the best of us, usa has white supremicists doesn’t mean we all think that way)
As atheists, we should be down with obliteration of theocratic governments. Including individual theocratic actors and think tanks influencing the USA government….
And religious people should think twice before supporting a theocracy, because it could seriously dictate / infringe in what they believe too
The quran and many sahi hadith are full of hatred of the jews. It's taught to them from an early age that jews cannot be trusted and are followers of Dajjal, their version of the antichrist. They hate the jews because their religion tells them to.
Double standards and hypocrisy are inherent in any religious society. This post could lately replace "Muslim" with "Christian" and itd be effectively the same.
Also, the internet has accelerated to the unholy union of religion and capitalism. Religious influencers are seeking views by posting controversial or outrageous views. Views equal money. Outrage causes views. Outrage makes more money.
We should unite against all religious influencers, not single out a specific religion.
For me, what is even worse is the self-righteous western youth spreading hate speech against Jews. It is the quintessential virtue signalling by a bunch of people that have nothing to do with the the conflict, have no cultural or religious ties, and frame the situation in a western perspective that has nothing to do with the conflict.
Just about 1 month ago, I was passing in from of the central station in Amsterdam, and there were a bunch of young people speaking in English and Spanish, clearly western looking, spreading hate speech. They were waving Palestinian flags and they were calling for a new intifada, and they were chanting the "From the river to the sea...". I saw nobody that I could recognise as Muslim or from the middle east.
am middle eastern myself but from a christian region. not religious myself but grew up with almost exclusively muslims.
they are some of the biggest hypocrites, even some close friends at that time.
my benefit was i look like them so i never felt scared to call them out on their bullshit and i still do if i ever get into conversation with muslims.
that's the best part about being a foreigner yourself, they can't give the weak "you're racist" response because they would look stupid as shit. and when they can't say that they have not much else to say because they are in fact being hypocritical.
it's tribalism, nothing else.
Omg I thought I was the only one. I’ve had it with people posting pictures of dead babies, starved Palestinian children/gore. And then proceed to bully other people into posting “silence is compliance”. Give it a few months and these social media activists will find something else to feel superior about. It’s truly disgusting how these influencers turned insta and TikTok into a playground of performative activists.
I block people who consistently post about it. I want to log into insta so I can calm down, connect with friends, scroll for recipe ideas. Not being bombarded by political shit I already get enough of that by the news.
I’ve heard people say some inflammatory things including wishing Hitler was here, praising him and even saying he was right in killing Jews. I feel sorry for the innocent civilians being killed but Palestine-Israel conflict brings out the worse in people. No other humanitarian disaster has caused this much outrage and protests.
You even have people converting to Islam to show solidarity for Palestine. But I don’t see these same people converting to Islam for other atrocities caused by Muslims. I think we all know the real reason why….
The thing about Palestine is that the Palestinian people have been fucked over by their own leaders since 1948. They could have had lands that were their own, but they refused. And just for clarity, there has never been a nation of Palestine, but there was Israel prior to 1948.
I've thought about western left wing support of Palestine in America here. Say they do win out and they keep the land. Is Palestine such a nice tolerant muslim country that they'd continue to have positive sentiments for it after this whole conflict with Israel is over?
Muslims are taught in schools (in Muslim countries) to support Palestine. They're thought to hate Israel/Jews.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of how far right the current Israeli gvt is or their methods for punishing Hamas. Too many have died(even accounting that Hamas fakes numbers). And Israelis also discriminate against Arabs. One poll showed 50% feel fear when hearing Arabic on the street, and 33% feel hate.
A lot of pop Muslim apologists are not a fan of equal exchange of ideas. There's a reason the phrase 'without lies Islam dies' got so popular on social media.
Of course, most Muslims aren't warmongers, and would live peaceful lives, but it's always the minority that does this and people apply it to all individuals in the group.
With that said, I was shocked how many Muslims worldwide want Israel off the map. Antisemitism is on a sharp rise again. One poll shows 20% genZ thing the holocaust is overexagerated or didn't happen
When 90% of terror attacks are perpetrated by Arabs (within the green line) then feeling fear when you hear Arab isn't racism. Discriminating against peaceful Arabs is.
Polls are not and never have accurately reflected reality. And 20% of gen z does not believe the holocaust was faked, or 70% of americans believing in the great replacement, that Trump has gotten a 40 point increase in minority support, etc (these are all real poll results.) While I agree antisemitism is on the rise and that it's an issue, let's not look to borderline pseudoscientific ways of acquiring information as a way to support that.
As someone who used to be Jewish (to some I'll always be Jewish) and understands the actual dynamic out there - here is what I know - basically everything else is conjecture.
Short answer as to why this specific land in the first place = tribalism + holy sites.
In Islam, Jerusalem is their 3rd most important city behind mecca and medina. They feel that Jerusalem is their holy land too (Jews think it's #1) and with the Jewish diaspora leading towards many scapegoat atrocities across the world (Russia, Europe) culminating in the Holocaust, the people who were on that land, mostly Arab Muslims, got kicked off (and moved as part of a 2 state solution) by the UN and England to basically, artificially, create a Jewish home state of Israel (formerly Palestine)
In response, the 5 Arab countries surrounding this land coordinated an attack on Israel to back their Tribalistic brethren. When they lost, Israel took more land from the displaced ppls cuz that's what you do when you win a war.
This has basically created a cycle of "you punched me so I'ma punch you" that has culminated in today.
As far as - why they don't see Muslims perpetrating similar or worse crimes, it's cuz tribalism blinds you and their want to control their 3rd most important city.
Yeah, and how did the British get control of that territory in the first place? Because the Ottoman Empire voluntarily joined WW1 and lost.
They seem to have a really funny habit of starting a war, losing a war, then crying that they’re being colonized.
A beauty brand owner/influencer was saying she wouldn’t accept “blood money” referring to Israeli customers
While choosing to have her company in the UAE, in a building most certainly built with South Asian blood, in a country that is committing atrocities in Yemen
She does accept blood money, she’s just particular about what type. The hypocrisy was… certainly something
They're not doing it as influencers, but for propaganda. After witnessing how gen z responded to what happened and knowing the shit I personally see on tik tok, it was very apparent that they've been on brainwashing campaigns for a long time.
And I also come from a city where there are a lot of Palestinian families. Most of my friends growing up were Muslim. Looking back, my friends weren't really friends because all they ever did was try to convert me. None of them were ever lasting friends.
And I remember after 9-11 that one of those Palestinian friends right away started blaming the Jews.
So to reiterate, they've been proselytizing both to their religion and their causes since at least the 90s, they've been just a rabid as the christians, and no one has noticed them doing it because they market it as teaching you their culture.
The Israel-palestine conflict plays very nearly into the Muslim Vs non Muslims ideology encouraged in Islam. This is why other Muslim nations generally will not step in to actually help Palestinians and why they are absolutely fine killing each other. It's why you hear little to nothing about the other atrocities going on in the middle east. Arabs killing Arabs can't be exploited for religious purposes so nobody cares.
A lot is said about regular European style antisemitism in relation to the Israel Palestinian conflict but the Islam Vs non islamic element doesn't get enough focus. The conflict riles up the Muslim world like no other conflict because it ignites religious zeal by appealing to appealing to islamic narratives. They aren't concerned about the Palestinians as people, they just want an ideological victory over Jews. They don't care if that comes at the cost of every Palestinian life.
Same with the kurds, we're being killed by the turks, arabs and iranians. And no one really gives a shit. Like the anfal campaign which was started by Sadam Hussin killed 180 thousand kurds, the Halepcha chemical attack killed 5000 people, the Turkish govt. have killed 40 thousand kurds since the 80's, the Turkish govt. is settling arabs in the occupied regions of Afrin and Serê Kanyê.
We, as well, faced displacement and genocide for simply existing, just like Palastinians. But it seems some people are more human than others.
I have lots of sympathy for the Kurdish cause. I hate that your fighting groups get labeled as terrorists in my country, when Rojava is actually the closest a middle eastern nation has come to libertarian socialism, secularism and feminism.
Idk why I didn't include Kurdistan in my original post, because I definitely thought about it.
Much support to you and to the volunteers who died for your cause ✊
To express concerns about the scale of the war in Gaza is reasonable. To start displaying Gazan flags and side with Gaza is extremist. Gaza is run by Hammas from top to bottom. I hate to see civilians dying or suffering. But Gaza continues to hold Israeli hostages and given half a chance would exterminate Israel.
Oh gee I don't know, maybe because lots of "anti-Zionists" are motivated by Arab/Islamic supremacy and hatred of Jews rather than a genuine concern for human rights?
Muslims, successfuly, seek connections with a significant part of the young liberal left, which masks their anti-semitism as antiauthority-rethoric. Example: Kyle Kulinsky.
Have you considered that you're only seeing Muslim activists talking about Palestine and not about everything else you mentioned because there are just more people talking about Palestine rn in general?
I can assure you, there are Muslim activists concerned about everything you mentioned. You just haven't seen them, and also a lot of them can't be as active or vocal online because their government don't approve of what they have to say as much as they approve the support for Palestine. But this is all politics, the fact they happen to be Muslim doesn't change anything.
The Chinese treatment/internment/ killings of Uighur Muslims? Nothing to see here.
The Myanmar regime's simply awful actions against their indiginous Muslims? Meh, it's fine.
Saudi massacring Huthis? Eh who?
South Sudan> Err, where?
Israel dealing (yeah I know) with the Palestinians? Demos every week! From the river to the sea etc.
Utter hypocrisy and virtue signalling.
Any race/people can have a go at atrocities against Muslims. But if a Jew is involved all hell breaks loose. Either those protesting hold Israelis/Jews to a higher standard than everyone else. Doubtful.
Or they just do not like Jews.
And if it is said we should not conflate the actions of the Israeli government with ordinary Jews, why are Jews in the likes of the UK experiencing anti semitism on a scale not seen since the 1930s?
Most muslims are used to living under sharia, or they are aware of how many muslims live under sharia. They see sharia as a good thing, and fully believe in its laws.
They focus on israel much more than yemen or sudan or any other third world ethnic conflict because they hate jews and the western world. Yes the israelis are absolutely committing atrocities, but no other atrocities in the muslim world get so much attention.
Because a good Muslim is a radical Muslim and they don't want to share the Middle East with anyone, especially Jews.
The history. The Ottomans, an Islamic Caliphate ruled by a Sultan, sided with Germany in WW1 and lost Palestine to the British (see Lawrence of Arabia for a good dramatization). Many Jews lived in Palestine and were joined on WW2 by those fleeing the Holocaust. The U.N. established a partitioned Palestine in 1947, dividing the territory about 60/40 between Jews and Arabs. The Arab response? All Arab countries surrounding Israel attacked en masse in 1948, and lost. They've been attacking and losing ever since, displacing vast numbers of Arabs who could have instead enjoyed 75 years of prosperity and peace had they not been consumed by Islamist hatred of everything Israel.
Palestinians could have had a state in 1948, 1967, 2001, 2008 and since. Yet every Palestinian leader has rejected every offer of statehood, lest they have to accept a permanent Jewish state in any form.
There are some (=MANY) radical muslims that want's to erase Israel and all Jews gone, physically. Hate is part of any religion but strongly present is islamic fundamentalism.
Hamas is a terrorist organization elected by Palestinians to run their country. Hamas , along with all other ME Muslim nations, wishes for the extermination of all Jews and the destruction of Israel. In its place would be an Islamic theocracy ruled by Sharia law. Hamas knew Israel would show a strong response. Like most terrorist organizations, they were hoping the reaction would create sympathy for their cause. Indeed it has, with people virtue signaling by supporting them—indeed, some of the very people Hamas would kill in order to establish their theocracy (apostates, lgbt folks, atheists, etc)
Why is there Islamophobia but no Hindu-phobia, Buddhist-phobia, Sikh-phobia?? When the US Blacks are oppressed, why do they turn to Islam and not to Hinduism or Buddhism?
It is because Islam teaches you to demolish Islam’s enemies. Fight back. Subjugate others.
I had to scroll down way too much to find comments that aren’t promoting zionism.
I have seen religious subs being more progressive than this sub sometimes lol
decontextualized false equivalency
This is like saying "why are the native americans so obsessed with pilgrims? natives kill each other too!" violence happens everywhere all the time, why focus on one incident? maybe because it's closest to home for them considering they probably have relatives being killed by Israel.
you're also condemning entire groups for bad behavior within the group. why care about violence at all? we're all human, and humans commit violence right?
They're recruiting. So they focus on something topical as hook to get people interested. The same way the far right is doing with muslims at the moment
Ever since Mohammed failed to convert Jews, they have had an anti-Semitic obsession. Note, though, this is not unique to Muslims -- when Martin Luther failed to convert Jews, he called for the burning of synagogues.
See rocks and trees... Of course, over a thousand years this has waxed and waned. Under Suleiman the Magnificent and the Ottoman Empire, while Jews and Christians were certainly second-class citizens, they were accepted as valid. And Jews were very often better off there than under Christian rule in Europe.
That whole stiff-necked thing.
Id give many the benefit of the doubt that they would be consistent when it comes down to it. Also it should be no surprise they are more sensitive specifically to this.
Israel is particularly unique, because israel is backed and propped up and apologized for by the west, and the worlds greatest superpower that to say the least has not been their friend. If they are American, they live their whole lives with the narrative about how savage they are or where they come from is. There is a glaring, reprehensible double standard at their expense. Id be barely comprehensible if I was faced with this. I barely am now just seeing it from the other side
Not only that plenty of Americans are sensitive to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, ignoring our indefensible acts of terror abroad.
Try not to view individuals of a group as one monolithic gelatinous glob
Not sure if this explains...
Large portions of Spain used to be under Islamic dynasties...yet don't seem to see much verbiage against Spain.
If it is a matter of time...this doesn't explain the Balkans.
Parts of the Balkans were also under Muslim rule and not many seem to care that much....except when the Bosnian genocide happened?
Also, the premise seems odd. At the world cup in Qatar, it looked like some non Muslim fans also looked down on Israels actions.
Eg. Brazil is not a Muslim country . South Africa is not,, either . Or Ireland Yet, these countries have done more for the Palestinian cause , vocally, than most 'islamic countrie' ...even those that have elections and care about the opinions of their populace.
Closest I can think of as an explanation is imperialism.
Lot of the developing countries that have experienced occupation by distant European powers....seem to have unfavorable views of Israeli actions.
OTOH, these countries are not strangers to wars between neighbors .
I live in a Muslim-majority society where almost everyone is loudly waving Palestinian flags, while also spewing hate speech against Rohingya refugees who are also fellow Muslims.
While some are genuinely concerned about human suffering, many are concerned about Palestinians because of these reasons:
- Rampant antisemitism is part of the popular faith, no getting around it, and Muslims here are used to all kinds of conspiracy theories where the world is a battlefield between evil Jews and good Muslims
- The strong believe that this is a holy war and if they don’t support it loudly in the eyes of God, they might not get into heaven
- A sense of community built around the suffering of another people
- Despite being the majority here & enjoying all kinds of institutional privileges, they claim to be oppressed by the minorities and will often use Palestine as an example of “here’s what happens when NATIVE Muslims are too tolerant of immigrants (despite the minorities having lived here for generations)
- They love telling us minorities “Be grateful, at least we are not bombing you like the Israelis”
- And they will point at minorities who are not sufficiently loud about supporting the Palestinian cause (due to recognizing what the flag waving are all really about) as further proof that non-Muslims have less “humanity” than them and therefore deserve everything coming at them.
Don’t get me wrong, I do oppose the atrocities the Israelis are doing and at the end of the day, they stem from the same ethno-religious ideologies as what many Muslims stick to. But you can see why many of us non-Muslims living in Muslim-majority countries are very cynical about it all.
I don’t understand how Jews in Israel are colonizing if it’s their ethnic and historical homeland, and up until the formation of Israel had been ethnically cleansed from Israel and the Middle East for centuries? I agree they have committed atrocities and should be condemned. Let’s use another example. Say all of the First Nation tribes banned together in North America and took over or were given land (like the post world war 2 formation of Israel) and did the exact same thing. Now they couldn’t be defined as colonizers since they would be taking back their ethnic and historical homeland, but they would still be committing war crime or atrocities. I actually agree with the Pro-Palestine camp mostly, but I still don’t understand the logic that they’re colonizers like Europeans who invaded and colonized North America, South America, Africa, Asia, etc….
It definitely is annoying. But the overall media hegemony of western countries has definitely gotten diluted. I’m actually glad that we are hearing everyone’s perspective. Gen population needs a little more education.
As for influencers with an agenda, ones that are aligned with GCC govt. agenda tend to get amplified a lot more.
There are quite a few content creators/social workers protesting the treatment of their own people by these governments. But they never get featured, because their own governments don’t want to be held accountable.
Add to that, the Internet’s voracious appetite for extreme views and drama, and you have the perfect recipe for disaster.
The reason for that is because they don’t actually care about the innocent lives lost in any conflict. The only reason they “support” Palestine is because they are under the false belief that the Jews are the ones perpetrating this violence, and thus will find any excuse to hate on Jews for existing.
The other reason they would support Palestine, is because by doing so they are attempting to get rid of the Jewish ancestral ties to the land, to try rid the Jewish race of any connection to the land to which they are native to. In this way if there would be no Israel, another Jewish diaspora would occur, and we would be right back to where we were when Islam was invented by Mohamed
> The treatment Palestinians have to face is absolutely unfair, no one should get murdered by a colonizing state for inhabiting a land.
I don't want to detract from your argument, but that really isn't what's happening.
Is the treatment unfair? Yes, the civilians shouldn’t suffer like that. But Israel tried to make peace a lot of times and have always been attacked anyway. The Muslim countries refused to live alongside Jews and started war after war and attack after attack.
Western Europeans have little in common with Ukrainians though? That seems like a very different conflict to me. They don't have a complex history of back and forth violence. Russia was given nukes, access to Sevastopol, eventually Crimea. They just wanted more?
jerusalem. Third holiest city in Islam behind Mecca and Medina.
Plus the jewish conquest of palestine fucked over a bunch of arab muslims and the umma are required to stick together.
It's literally a multicultural democracy with multiple Arab parties, while essentially every other Middle Eastern country is an Arab/Muslim ethnostate where non-Arabs and non-Muslims are denied basic human rights.
But remember, Israel is an apartheid ethnostate and literally the most evil and racist country in human history.
I like how they claim its an apartheid state, and I'm like if it were an apartheid state Arab citizens wouldn't exist within Israel, they would all be on the other side of the wall in the occupied territories.
I think they're mostly neglecting the fact that apartheid has a very specific definition as a system to oppress people. Either Israel is very bad at implementing it or they aren't at all.
In general, I'd say it's because there is a highly-militarized state with views not entirely compatible with the rest of the region sitting in their backyard.
As someone in the U.S., I imagine it would be like North Korea being given Iowa.
Is whataboutism the punchline ?
Anyway the answer to your question is because the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for the better part of a century and has become deeply rooted in popular culture accross the world. It's also one of the most mediatised.
But I assure you I loath the Saouds just as much because of what they did/are doing to Yemen.
Why did Oct 7 happen?
Jews: Because they think we are going to build a 3rd temple in place of Al Aqsa
Palestinians: Because we think Jews will destroy Al Aqsa
Western tankie: Because of apartheid genocide!!!
Russia is also committing war crimes against humanity yet you never see a single muslim country holding up the Ukrainian flags. Afghanistan has also committed war crimes against humanity yet you don't seem to care. So no.
Killing a human shield isn't a war crime, but hiding behind them is. Ironically, blaming Israel only validates the war crime, encouraging Hamas to throw more Gazans under the bus as meat shields, instead of ending the war today by surrendering.
There are no Muslim countries doing "more or less" what Israel is doing. There is no concentration camp of two million atheists or LGBT people being deliberately starrved and bombed in any of those countries. We need to find ways of advocating for religious tolerance and LGBT rights without ridiculous exaggeration.
They aren’t at war bc Palestine “was occupying land” they are at war bc Hamas keeps starting wars with Israel like the October 7th terrorist attack where Israel was invaded and ppl were murdered, raped and kidnapped.
Agree. What Israel is doing is completely disproportionate, but that doesn't excuse the attack that caused the response. Especially when they say that rape doesn't exist in the Muslim culture because Allah forbids it, yet there are multiple videos of female Israeli hostages getting out of vehicles in blood soaked pants.
Two wrongs don't make a right. A white person can be upset about racism against POC without being a hypocrite even though whites have historically been the oppressors of POC. All faiths suck, but the bombings/dead children on the news happen to be in Palestine at the moment so people (whether Muslim or otherwise) are speaking out. It is also fair to ask why the same sympathy is not shown to the people of South Sudan, the Rohingya, the citizens of Myanmar, the Uyighers (sp?), etc., etc. A dead child is a dead child, whether Israeli or Palestinian or Jew or Muslim or atheist. If you see things categorically (as in the unnecessary death of a child is categorically wrong), you can ignore the hypocrisy inherent in any person/govt condemning another person/govt and focus on the substance of the act being condemned. None of us is perfect, but that does not mean we should shut up and stay silent for fear of being labeled a hypocrite. No race/creed/faith/government is free from blame for past actions.
You assume that logical consistency and individual rights are more important than the dominance of the faith. For way too many Abrahamic theists, the dominance of the superior ideology (as far as the individual mind in question is concerned) is more important than logical truth or individual self-determination or any of those great models of wisdom and freedom.
Western Abrahamic theists (usually Christians) in particular are happy to champion Enlightenment values of natural rights and due process and equal protection under the law UNLESS the question of “What is going to further the cause of my belief system?” is a part of the considerations and the answer to that question runs counter to those Enlightenment values. In that case, all of those other values—including logical consistency itself—can readily be set aside. The cause is the chief value. Other values are acceptable as long as they don’t interfere with the cause.
This an issue with dogmatic thinking in general (even in secular institutions like Soviet Russia and North Korea and post-Maoist China), but Muslims and Christians are the biggest and most problematic demonstrations of this way of thinking in the world today.
I'm a Muslim (white American background) and I disagree with this. I'm still upvoting for thoughtful content. The bigger problem is that it's a 1st World and 3rd World divide, so the education gap levels are extremely huge, based on socioeconomics. You'll see more nuanced views from 1st World developed Muslims. People take cheap shots all day at Muslims. I could talk for hours and weeks about this topic, because you have to understand Christianity and Judaism are interlinked, historically and by propaganda about Israel (they verbatim share texts), so it becomes very complex. Israel and other foreign occupations/invasions by the U.S. are very closely linked, so it's a good cornerstone of their foreign policy. There's a TON of nuance on both sides to the issue, and unfortunately I don't have a lot of time or resources to write. Best wishes
I think it has to do with them using this situation as A recruiting moment they see how people are sympathizing with the Palestinian people who are in the majority Muslim and they're taking advantage of that to try to convert people which is an absolutely disgusting thing to do Don't be mistaken I'm glad People are speaking out regardless of the reason I just wished they didn't have Other motives than just caring for there fellow man I expect every one to stand against any injustice they see and if they don't I don't care who they are I believe them to be evil at mind The truth is I have spoken to many lovely Muslim people who do Not have extremist views who I'll actually supportive of queer people Don't get me wrong that's not the majority of them I'm just simply pointing out that I can get along with any one of any belief as long as They are not trying to convert me or being bigoted
yes. more particular to the Israel-Palestine conflict itself, no Muslims oppose Hamas. They know it’s bad. but they don’t address that parasite, just the Israeli extremists . this forces many people to support Israel over all of the innocents because they view Palestinians as terrorists
Every religion has their own mental gymnastics on what is/isn't hypocrisy. So here's the TLDR: Depending on upbringing it is the duty of Muslims to make the world Islam. Any land claimed by muslims belongs to Islam. Period. It's part of Dar al Salm. Anything outside of that is Dar al Harb. Wading through that would take more time. Any land that was claimed by muslims but is occupied by other people is considered 'occupied territory' which feeds into the 'Islam is under attack' narrative. There is a heirarchy in Islam and Palestinians are pretty low on in. If they're attacked by non-muslims then they are 'brothers' and must be defended/protected/etc. Unless another Muslim country decides to wipe them out. Then it's none of anybody's business.
> There is a heirarchy in Islam and Palestinians are pretty low on in. Why? Edit: not sure why I'm being downvoted, I'm genuinely asking. Maybe this is common knowledge in the islamic world. Maybe because they have no country and have to submit to another religion and not Allah and it's seen as weak?
Same as any other culture/religion/etc. People are people. There's people to look up to and people to look down on. They might not be 'muslim enough' or any other made-up reason people believe anything.
Same as you got with Christianity. There were initially the "Real Christians" and "Converted Christians" and "We'll call them Christians" as the religion spread - especially involving the 'barbarian notherners'. Then you had the schism, and Catholic versus Orthodox. But when it came to Crusades, both were Christian still, but they looked down on each other. Then there were further splits, leading to Protestants and all the other goody divisions of Christianity that we are familiar with today. And many of those are looked down on by some/all other groups. Just look at Latter-Day Saints today, or the Protestants 100-200 years ago. Or look at the Christian Kingdom of Ethiopia, which was fighting for it's survival in a world surrounding by Islam for centuries, and was basically viewed the same way Tywin Lannister looked at Tyrion. Sure he was blood, but he was still THAT THING.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Just a reminder that people don't need a reason to be hateful. They just need an excuse.
Which is my general commentary on religion in general :P If you're a good person, you don't need religion telling you to be good. If you're an evil person, religion won't stop you from being evil - it'll just remind you to hide it. Religion just helps people who are willing to be good or evil, and give them an imaginary (or real, who knows) reason to be good instead of evil. And the result is that religion is full of evil people pretending to be good (to get the rewards for being good), good people being good (which they'd do even without religion), and middle-of-the-road people being neutral or good because they won't want to risk spiritual punishment. Which really is no different than the world without religion, where society (even without religion) punishes people for not being good, so evil people hide their evil, neutral people mostly stay neutral, and good people still find ways to do good.
Classism
Agree.
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Social Media measures engagement and engagement is driven by outrage
That’s an outrageous statement. Take my upvote.
Everyone involved is selling product.
ABC. always be closing
I mean. That's literally always the case everywhere for any demographic. They always care more when it's perpetrated against them rather than against others. This has been true for the entire history of humanity.
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No they didn’t, they are giving priority and a faster way to religious minorities persecuted in Muslim majority countries, like Afghanistan and Pakistan to immigrate to India. Muslim still can immigrate to India.
Lmao you think muslims put other religions and atheists on the same level as them? I've never met anything like an honest muslim dude. They lie their hearts out, especially against non muslims. it's like a cult.
It’s [TAQIYYA all the way every day](https://www.google.com/search?q=takyya+lying+in+islam&client=safari&sca_esv=7479081811d2e948&hl=en-es&sxsrf=ACQVn0-B5j5rkDVgmBoUV3Fa22Q6Hffwhw%3A1710255032259&ei=uGvwZfirD-GBhbIPxtKDmAs&oq=takyya+lying+in+islam&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhV0YWt5eWEgbHlpbmcgaW4gaXNsYW0yCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEi5OVCeFli3N3AAeACQAQCYAbECoAGgGKoBCDAuMTMuMi4xuAEDyAEA-AEBmAIMoALoEsICChAAGIAEGLADGArCAgoQABiABBgKGLADwgIQEC4YgAQYChjIAxiwA9gBAcICFhAuGIAEGAoYxwEYrwEYyAMYsAPYAQHCAgwQABiABBgNGEYY_wHCAgcQABiABBgNwgIIEAAYCBgeGA3CAgYQABgeGA3CAgcQIRgKGKABmAMAiAYBkAYQugYECAEYCJIHBzAuOS4yLjGgB5tC&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp). The Muslims justification is that lying to infidels is just totally ok and a pious thing to do. Have you ever heard that Islam means peace ? Well , that’s taqiyya. [Because Islam literally translates as the word “submission”](https://www.metmuseum.org/learn/educators/curriculum-resources/art-of-the-islamic-world/introduction/frequently-asked-questions) ‘Submission to god’. And Islam only means peace if you stretch the truth and come up with a convoluted saying that “once everyone is a Muslim in the world” there will be peace. Really silly argument some spin when faced with the fact that Islam does NOT actually-mean-peace. It literally means submission… just don’t look behind the curtain Everything you hear said towards non-Muslims in English has a high chance of being carefully sanitized for western ears. there are even English Quran that have the nasty verses deleted. [Check the skeptics annotated page for verses that really do not mince words.](https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/all/int_list.html)
This is correct. The world islam (إسلام) is derived from the arabic world (إستسلام) which means submission, so islam literally means submiting to god. And islam has two types of jihad (جهاد) which means fighting, and they're jihad al dafaa, it is to fight to push the enemy back, and jihad al talab, and it's to attack the enemy in their home. And the latter is what made islam spread. And btw any translated version of Quran is kurf (herasy) despite it including all the nasty verses or not. You must learn arabic if you wanna read Quran. And unfortunetly we were forced to learn it by the syrian regime.
Wait...the Syrian regime if the baath party made you learn Arabic? Or learn the Quran? (Not sure if the 'it' refers to the Quran or to Arabic) Surprised... because thought baath was a bit of secular ideology, stated by a Christian ?
No no I meant learn arabic.
Wouldn't you need to know Arabic ...if you lived in Syria, Lebanon etc...am assuming that is the .other tongue of most?
Arabic is the most spoken language in Syria, but it's not necessary to know arabic in the Kurdish region (the north-east) where like 80% of people speak kurdish. Tbh, like any language, knowing arabic is useful, but they were trying to arabize us, so teaching kurdish in schools was banned (still is in the regime's schools) celebrating Newroz was banned till the early 2000's, and back in the 80's, even speaking kurdish will lead to you being arrested.
Cool . So the teaching of Arabic is more for arabization than Islamization (as Kurds are mostly Muslim already?) Would be difficult to arrest 80% of a region:...even if all the other 20 percent became cops:-)
“Islam” is the imperative form of a word meaning submission. It is literally translated as: (you) submit!
That’s every religion to ever exist. They’re ALL cults.
at least most religions aren't being confused with the government...
Yeah like Christianity in the US? Or are we just talking about the other one?
I mean Christianity in the US has thanfullly not fully be integrated in the federal government... But for certain state, of course. I was mainly talking about Islam and how it is the core of many governments. I saw news where in Pakistan they condemned someone to death for insulting a prophet... That's the kind of thing I was talking about.
In the USA they have separation between church and state. I'd invite you to travel to some Islamic countries as a point of comparison. Sure, there other countries in the world that are a little bit more secular than the USA (in practice), but at least the USA has its secularism written into its founding documents. Try going to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Qatar, Turkey, Sudan, Lebanon, Jordan, etc.
Try to openly practice a religion not called Islam in most Muslim-majority countries on earth and see how it goes. American hardcore Christians might beat you up or even kill you for being a Muslim, but the US as a whole doesn’t have laws that legalize that act. Unlike blasphemy laws in Iran for example.
I get it, but in this modern day and age let’s not act like the Muslim religion is not the most problematic.
Islam is the single most colonialist religion to exist lol
Christianity would like a word. Ever pick up a history textbook?
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Islam is a more colonialist religion than Christianity lol. Maybe it’s you who needs a history textbook.
I mean, do you know any Muslims in real life? Because I have definitely met "honest" Muslims before. Though, to be fair, in the circles I run in, people are more "ethnically/culturally" Muslim than actual believers. And I don't know any influencers in real life, lol.
I live in a heavily Muslim area, most aren’t devout followers or anything, but the ones that are have a lot of hate in their hearts as chill as they can be sometimes.
The problem I have not only seen or experienced but my muslim friends have expressed is they would love to make a change or break the cycle but they’re fearful of their own lives. Even if they’re good people, they are influenced and it’s difficult to do what they actually believe is the right thing. It’s sad.
That's how they're raised. Many many many many Islamic cultures despise Israel (the reasons of which are numerous). But, it's brainwashing from a young age to hate israel, and by extention, Jewish people. PS. I'm obviously not saying this is os the case for *every* Muslim person. But, it is pretty common knowledge.
It’s blaming the other to detract from the problems they have and to exert more control of their populations.
Yeah, that's definitely a big part of it
Antisemitism and Islamic Expansion. I hate using wikipedia but I am tired so here you go: [Article about antisemitism in Islam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam) [Antisemitism in the Arab world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world) [Muslim Conquest of Persia (there's mmany more but this is relevant here)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Persia) [Article about Jews under Muslim rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule) To summerize it really short (and thus not very well): Muslims see it as their duty to make the whole world muslim and install Islamic rule everywhere. Jewish people have thus been persecuted and discriminated against in the middle east and most left only to be fucked over everywhere else. The rest that stayed got fucked over by the rulers further. After the the Ottoman Empire fell apart Britain got rule over the entire area that was mandatory palestine. Around the end of WW2 Britain decided that it would grand the jewish people in the region (back then called the jewish palestinians) the right to statehood in Israel. Obvs neither jews nor British people are Muslim so that didn't help i guess. And then it goes into a giant clusterfuck that only the UK could cause but it goes somewhat like this: - The Arab rulers where already fans of hitler and super antisemitic so they really didn't want jewish people to have their own state, no matter if they come from the middle east or europe - Israel gets recognized as a state - The arab nations and Islamic militant groups decide they don't want that and start a war - they loose the war big time - The Jewish exodus in the middle east happens and most Jewish people either get expelled from their countries due to israel now existing or they choose to go on their own because they are persecuted in their homecountry and also massive amounts of jews from africa get expelled or flee too and then of course alot of jews flee Europe, especially the soviet states because the soviet union also hates jews tldr: LOTS OF REFUGEES (+ the american zionist movement) - they get really angry at Israel/The Jews(tm) because the expected things happen when you loose a war - they all decide they do not accept israel as a nation and continuously try to erase Israel/The Jews from the map by doing the Intifada and the second Intifada and all those attacks - more and more radical islamic groups (like hamas) straight up go "we want to genocide all jews in the area" because "hey that's OUR LAND you jews go back to where you belong (idk where they think that is, but apparently not the middle east where they came from) The endgoal is: Israel is gone and therefore also the jews giving muslims what they think is rightfully their land. Bonus reason: Israel is allies with alot of western countries and THE WEST (tm) is suuuuper unislamic and therefor evil bad (tm) God i'm so tired i bet none of this makes sense outside of my brain but i am so incredibly tired of it all but mostly of stupid leftists falling for islamic propaganda in an effort to be woke or whatever
And it’s Hamas’s stated goal to colonize the entire planet, so at least they are consistent
I'm going to be cynical for a moment and ask... what take brings in the most numbers? What take is bringing in those views and ad dollars?
That's awfully right. I just wish there was something that could be done against the lack of exposure of other conflicts, just to get a broader picture of what happens in the world.
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muslim ban? You're ignoring history of Pakistan and Bangladesh's oppression and genocide against non-muslims. And the fact that these are both muslim nations that oppressed muslims can go to. India is just saying that hindus and other India native religion followers have no where to go and they have a right to getting citizenship there.
> it's hard to tell marketing and propaganda mouthpieces apart from serious **journalism**. We have to be careful that that word maintains its integrity. Tucker Carlson calls himself a journalist. Chaya Raichik calls herself a journalist. They're purposefully diluting the word so as to sell their takes as meaning more than they really do.
The ban India had placed has been misinterpreted to stew tensions, it’s a way to allow non-Muslim minorities in the Muslim majority countries around India (Pakistan, Bangladesh) to fast-track immigration to India. Why would Muslims be oppressed in Muslim countries, it’s pointless to fast-track immigrants if they’re Muslim.
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The Muslim Rohingyas literally killed hundreds of Hindu rohingyas. They can fuck on right off to hell. Plus the Muslim Rohingyas are the ones who started an armed separatist movement during the 40's. They can't have their cake and eat it too.
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One thing most of these modern separatist movements have is... religion. Specifically Monotheist ones. But I mean what else do people expect from people who claim there is nothing more supreme than their God and all else are the enemy for not believing in the same thing.
I really think Muslims are winning the social media game, they just seem everywhere, their religion is really attractive to cringe young boys and for some reason girls really like it too, they have so many social media influencers, and try to push their narrative, it’s really scary.
Social right-wing nonsense/populism is definitely on the rise, in my opinion the internet is greatly at fault. We as a species just weren't/aren't ready for something like this yet, and we will pay dearly.
Both Left wing and right wing extremism are on the rise. This is why social media went from a great tool to get inspo, spread information and organize in oppressive places (Arab Spring) .. to a thing that is destroying society.
Extremism attracts incels and basement trolls, it’s nothing new.
Don't seek justice, logic and common sense amongst the followers of a psychopath prophet.
Antisemitism is rampant in the Muslim world since the early 20th century. The palestin conflict both happened because of it and promoted that ideology. And I completely agree, this is just double standards. The Kurds are pretty much in exactly the same pickle as Palestinians, but nobody cares, because it's Muslims doing the (cultural) genocide. Same goes for the "queers for Palestine" crowd. Hamas would hang them from the nearest crane, but they say Israel is the fascist oppressor state. Where more Palestinians live than in Gaza, in peace, with higher standard of living.
Because they've been raised their whole lives to hate everyone who isn't Muslim, and especially Jews. Antisemitism is so ubiquitous that it's the subject of jokes. And now the Jews have a homeland. One acquired, in large part, at the expense of the Arabic-speaking Muslim Palestinians. So, a grain of legitimate grievance combined with centuries of frothing-mad religious bigotry is what it comes down to. It's kind of like how right-wing Christians in America act when an illegal immigrant commits a heinous crime. They love to point that out. Yet they are strangely silent when a white suburban kid commits a mass shooting.
>Because they've been raised their whole lives to hate everyone who isn't Muslim, and especially Jews. This in particular. As others have mentioned Muslim vs Muslim conflicts tend to get ignored entirely, but even when it's other Muslim vs non-Muslim wars or conflicts (e.g. Uyghur genocide in China, Armenia's occupation of Azerbaijan, India and Pakistan's conflict over Kashmir etc.) there doesn't seem to be any real outcry or social media coverage. However when it comes to Israel there is nothing but coverage, social media posturing, and condemnation for the only Jewish state in existence.
\--> Aren't the Druze, Dogons or Copts as worthy of attention as Palestinians ? No. They should be, but they aren't. There is also not attention paid to the number of Muslim Ethiopians that are killed by Suadi Border security... (https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/21/saudi-arabia-mass-killings-migrants-yemen-border)
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Ppl this is not racism. Saying "All ppl from Iran are terrorists who deserve something bad," is racist. Saying extremist and Islam is "Cancer" is somewhat accurate. Just look at all that death. Some 22 year old got sentenced to death in Iran yesterday for something they wrote on the Internet. Islam just isn't the same as other religions.. it truly is a Murder/suicide cult.
Christianity is quite similar it's just that there are fewer fervent believers
I hear you, totally, I also think there are plenty of murderous Christians. I'm just talking about Islam with that particular comment.
Iranian is not a race.
Its all fake. Islam is the worst fake. They want to either rule your life or kill you in the name of their fake 'prophet'. They can go fuck themselves.
They cater to a bunch of brain dead zombies incels who are lusting after 72 white virgins in their heaven..
Hamas is a government. A totalitarian theocracy. Police state. Hamas attacked Israel, a democracy. Israel is attacking Hamas, the government. Don’t confuse Hamas with Palestinian citizens. At best, they’re in the way, and casualties of war. But the Israelis don’t aim to hurt the citizens. Or at least, not the vast majority (shit happens to the best of us, usa has white supremicists doesn’t mean we all think that way) As atheists, we should be down with obliteration of theocratic governments. Including individual theocratic actors and think tanks influencing the USA government…. And religious people should think twice before supporting a theocracy, because it could seriously dictate / infringe in what they believe too
The quran and many sahi hadith are full of hatred of the jews. It's taught to them from an early age that jews cannot be trusted and are followers of Dajjal, their version of the antichrist. They hate the jews because their religion tells them to.
Wish they would show the same support to the Kurds. Oh right....
Or Afghanistan
Same.
They don't give a fuck about deaths of Palestinians. They only want to invade Jerusalem.
Double standards and hypocrisy are inherent in any religious society. This post could lately replace "Muslim" with "Christian" and itd be effectively the same. Also, the internet has accelerated to the unholy union of religion and capitalism. Religious influencers are seeking views by posting controversial or outrageous views. Views equal money. Outrage causes views. Outrage makes more money. We should unite against all religious influencers, not single out a specific religion.
For me, what is even worse is the self-righteous western youth spreading hate speech against Jews. It is the quintessential virtue signalling by a bunch of people that have nothing to do with the the conflict, have no cultural or religious ties, and frame the situation in a western perspective that has nothing to do with the conflict.
To be fair, I rarely witnessed anti-jewish remarks in the public debate from my country outside of Muslims.
Just about 1 month ago, I was passing in from of the central station in Amsterdam, and there were a bunch of young people speaking in English and Spanish, clearly western looking, spreading hate speech. They were waving Palestinian flags and they were calling for a new intifada, and they were chanting the "From the river to the sea...". I saw nobody that I could recognise as Muslim or from the middle east.
Most Muslims are killed by other Muslims, I believe.
TIL there are trendy internet Muslim influencers
am middle eastern myself but from a christian region. not religious myself but grew up with almost exclusively muslims. they are some of the biggest hypocrites, even some close friends at that time. my benefit was i look like them so i never felt scared to call them out on their bullshit and i still do if i ever get into conversation with muslims. that's the best part about being a foreigner yourself, they can't give the weak "you're racist" response because they would look stupid as shit. and when they can't say that they have not much else to say because they are in fact being hypocritical. it's tribalism, nothing else.
Omg I thought I was the only one. I’ve had it with people posting pictures of dead babies, starved Palestinian children/gore. And then proceed to bully other people into posting “silence is compliance”. Give it a few months and these social media activists will find something else to feel superior about. It’s truly disgusting how these influencers turned insta and TikTok into a playground of performative activists. I block people who consistently post about it. I want to log into insta so I can calm down, connect with friends, scroll for recipe ideas. Not being bombarded by political shit I already get enough of that by the news. I’ve heard people say some inflammatory things including wishing Hitler was here, praising him and even saying he was right in killing Jews. I feel sorry for the innocent civilians being killed but Palestine-Israel conflict brings out the worse in people. No other humanitarian disaster has caused this much outrage and protests. You even have people converting to Islam to show solidarity for Palestine. But I don’t see these same people converting to Islam for other atrocities caused by Muslims. I think we all know the real reason why….
The thing about Palestine is that the Palestinian people have been fucked over by their own leaders since 1948. They could have had lands that were their own, but they refused. And just for clarity, there has never been a nation of Palestine, but there was Israel prior to 1948.
I've thought about western left wing support of Palestine in America here. Say they do win out and they keep the land. Is Palestine such a nice tolerant muslim country that they'd continue to have positive sentiments for it after this whole conflict with Israel is over?
Muslims are taught in schools (in Muslim countries) to support Palestine. They're thought to hate Israel/Jews. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of how far right the current Israeli gvt is or their methods for punishing Hamas. Too many have died(even accounting that Hamas fakes numbers). And Israelis also discriminate against Arabs. One poll showed 50% feel fear when hearing Arabic on the street, and 33% feel hate. A lot of pop Muslim apologists are not a fan of equal exchange of ideas. There's a reason the phrase 'without lies Islam dies' got so popular on social media. Of course, most Muslims aren't warmongers, and would live peaceful lives, but it's always the minority that does this and people apply it to all individuals in the group. With that said, I was shocked how many Muslims worldwide want Israel off the map. Antisemitism is on a sharp rise again. One poll shows 20% genZ thing the holocaust is overexagerated or didn't happen
When 90% of terror attacks are perpetrated by Arabs (within the green line) then feeling fear when you hear Arab isn't racism. Discriminating against peaceful Arabs is.
Polls are not and never have accurately reflected reality. And 20% of gen z does not believe the holocaust was faked, or 70% of americans believing in the great replacement, that Trump has gotten a 40 point increase in minority support, etc (these are all real poll results.) While I agree antisemitism is on the rise and that it's an issue, let's not look to borderline pseudoscientific ways of acquiring information as a way to support that.
Honestly comparing Israelis fearing arabs and Muslims hating jews is kinda sad.
As someone who used to be Jewish (to some I'll always be Jewish) and understands the actual dynamic out there - here is what I know - basically everything else is conjecture. Short answer as to why this specific land in the first place = tribalism + holy sites. In Islam, Jerusalem is their 3rd most important city behind mecca and medina. They feel that Jerusalem is their holy land too (Jews think it's #1) and with the Jewish diaspora leading towards many scapegoat atrocities across the world (Russia, Europe) culminating in the Holocaust, the people who were on that land, mostly Arab Muslims, got kicked off (and moved as part of a 2 state solution) by the UN and England to basically, artificially, create a Jewish home state of Israel (formerly Palestine) In response, the 5 Arab countries surrounding this land coordinated an attack on Israel to back their Tribalistic brethren. When they lost, Israel took more land from the displaced ppls cuz that's what you do when you win a war. This has basically created a cycle of "you punched me so I'ma punch you" that has culminated in today. As far as - why they don't see Muslims perpetrating similar or worse crimes, it's cuz tribalism blinds you and their want to control their 3rd most important city.
Yeah, and how did the British get control of that territory in the first place? Because the Ottoman Empire voluntarily joined WW1 and lost. They seem to have a really funny habit of starting a war, losing a war, then crying that they’re being colonized.
While you’re not a religious Jew anymore, you’re still a member of the ethnic groups. You don’t get to just stop being a member of your ethnicity.
A beauty brand owner/influencer was saying she wouldn’t accept “blood money” referring to Israeli customers While choosing to have her company in the UAE, in a building most certainly built with South Asian blood, in a country that is committing atrocities in Yemen She does accept blood money, she’s just particular about what type. The hypocrisy was… certainly something
Exactly the kind of people I was thinking about when writing those lines.
They're not doing it as influencers, but for propaganda. After witnessing how gen z responded to what happened and knowing the shit I personally see on tik tok, it was very apparent that they've been on brainwashing campaigns for a long time. And I also come from a city where there are a lot of Palestinian families. Most of my friends growing up were Muslim. Looking back, my friends weren't really friends because all they ever did was try to convert me. None of them were ever lasting friends. And I remember after 9-11 that one of those Palestinian friends right away started blaming the Jews. So to reiterate, they've been proselytizing both to their religion and their causes since at least the 90s, they've been just a rabid as the christians, and no one has noticed them doing it because they market it as teaching you their culture.
When your identity is tied to intolerance, you can turn your personal life into a social media grift…all of Islam is a target market.
Because they hate Jews and are selling a product.
they are being paid to be. watch israelism the documentary.
1) All influencers want more likes, subs, etc 2) It's a hot topic and there's lots of eyeballs looking for new information and hot takes That's it.
The Israel-palestine conflict plays very nearly into the Muslim Vs non Muslims ideology encouraged in Islam. This is why other Muslim nations generally will not step in to actually help Palestinians and why they are absolutely fine killing each other. It's why you hear little to nothing about the other atrocities going on in the middle east. Arabs killing Arabs can't be exploited for religious purposes so nobody cares. A lot is said about regular European style antisemitism in relation to the Israel Palestinian conflict but the Islam Vs non islamic element doesn't get enough focus. The conflict riles up the Muslim world like no other conflict because it ignites religious zeal by appealing to appealing to islamic narratives. They aren't concerned about the Palestinians as people, they just want an ideological victory over Jews. They don't care if that comes at the cost of every Palestinian life.
go ask them. we're just here minding our own business wishing everyone would stop using religion to be assholes..
An army is fighting with terrorists and is being hated by muslims for that? What is that hidden link among these 3 nouns?
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Lots of people are pissed off at that.
Same with the kurds, we're being killed by the turks, arabs and iranians. And no one really gives a shit. Like the anfal campaign which was started by Sadam Hussin killed 180 thousand kurds, the Halepcha chemical attack killed 5000 people, the Turkish govt. have killed 40 thousand kurds since the 80's, the Turkish govt. is settling arabs in the occupied regions of Afrin and Serê Kanyê. We, as well, faced displacement and genocide for simply existing, just like Palastinians. But it seems some people are more human than others.
I have lots of sympathy for the Kurdish cause. I hate that your fighting groups get labeled as terrorists in my country, when Rojava is actually the closest a middle eastern nation has come to libertarian socialism, secularism and feminism. Idk why I didn't include Kurdistan in my original post, because I definitely thought about it. Much support to you and to the volunteers who died for your cause ✊
Thank you for the support brother. Much live from rojava ❤️ Jin Jiyan Azadî ✌️
To those scumbags, we (non muslims) are kafirs. They don't even see us as human.
A hero who saved 100 lives but kafir will eternally burn in hell while a Sadam hussein is seen as savior.
Because it clearly shows that the Israelis are out-praying the Palestinians. Or magic voodoo nonsense? #prayHarder
The Quran is as hostile to Jews ad Mein Kampf.
To express concerns about the scale of the war in Gaza is reasonable. To start displaying Gazan flags and side with Gaza is extremist. Gaza is run by Hammas from top to bottom. I hate to see civilians dying or suffering. But Gaza continues to hold Israeli hostages and given half a chance would exterminate Israel.
Oh gee I don't know, maybe because lots of "anti-Zionists" are motivated by Arab/Islamic supremacy and hatred of Jews rather than a genuine concern for human rights?
Muslims, successfuly, seek connections with a significant part of the young liberal left, which masks their anti-semitism as antiauthority-rethoric. Example: Kyle Kulinsky.
Well, some think being anti-Israel is antisemtic, which isn’t true.
Have you considered that you're only seeing Muslim activists talking about Palestine and not about everything else you mentioned because there are just more people talking about Palestine rn in general? I can assure you, there are Muslim activists concerned about everything you mentioned. You just haven't seen them, and also a lot of them can't be as active or vocal online because their government don't approve of what they have to say as much as they approve the support for Palestine. But this is all politics, the fact they happen to be Muslim doesn't change anything.
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The Chinese treatment/internment/ killings of Uighur Muslims? Nothing to see here. The Myanmar regime's simply awful actions against their indiginous Muslims? Meh, it's fine. Saudi massacring Huthis? Eh who? South Sudan> Err, where? Israel dealing (yeah I know) with the Palestinians? Demos every week! From the river to the sea etc. Utter hypocrisy and virtue signalling. Any race/people can have a go at atrocities against Muslims. But if a Jew is involved all hell breaks loose. Either those protesting hold Israelis/Jews to a higher standard than everyone else. Doubtful. Or they just do not like Jews. And if it is said we should not conflate the actions of the Israeli government with ordinary Jews, why are Jews in the likes of the UK experiencing anti semitism on a scale not seen since the 1930s?
Muslims are spineless hypocrites. Who would have thought
Oh religious hypocrites, what a very strange thing /s
Most muslims are used to living under sharia, or they are aware of how many muslims live under sharia. They see sharia as a good thing, and fully believe in its laws. They focus on israel much more than yemen or sudan or any other third world ethnic conflict because they hate jews and the western world. Yes the israelis are absolutely committing atrocities, but no other atrocities in the muslim world get so much attention.
Because a good Muslim is a radical Muslim and they don't want to share the Middle East with anyone, especially Jews. The history. The Ottomans, an Islamic Caliphate ruled by a Sultan, sided with Germany in WW1 and lost Palestine to the British (see Lawrence of Arabia for a good dramatization). Many Jews lived in Palestine and were joined on WW2 by those fleeing the Holocaust. The U.N. established a partitioned Palestine in 1947, dividing the territory about 60/40 between Jews and Arabs. The Arab response? All Arab countries surrounding Israel attacked en masse in 1948, and lost. They've been attacking and losing ever since, displacing vast numbers of Arabs who could have instead enjoyed 75 years of prosperity and peace had they not been consumed by Islamist hatred of everything Israel. Palestinians could have had a state in 1948, 1967, 2001, 2008 and since. Yet every Palestinian leader has rejected every offer of statehood, lest they have to accept a permanent Jewish state in any form.
You already know the answer. They’re okay to do it to others or the ones they view as the “bad Muslims”.
What I don’t understand is why is the whole Middle East obsessed with killing each other? It really makes no sense
There are some (=MANY) radical muslims that want's to erase Israel and all Jews gone, physically. Hate is part of any religion but strongly present is islamic fundamentalism.
All religions are dangerous, none so more than Islam
Totally agree. The fact is that Muslims can do to others but others cannot do to Muslims. A Muslim will never condemn another Muslim.
Hamas is a terrorist organization elected by Palestinians to run their country. Hamas , along with all other ME Muslim nations, wishes for the extermination of all Jews and the destruction of Israel. In its place would be an Islamic theocracy ruled by Sharia law. Hamas knew Israel would show a strong response. Like most terrorist organizations, they were hoping the reaction would create sympathy for their cause. Indeed it has, with people virtue signaling by supporting them—indeed, some of the very people Hamas would kill in order to establish their theocracy (apostates, lgbt folks, atheists, etc)
Yup. This is it. They used their own ppl as pawns and Israel took the bait.
Money.
because Muslims are obsessed with israel
Why is there Islamophobia but no Hindu-phobia, Buddhist-phobia, Sikh-phobia?? When the US Blacks are oppressed, why do they turn to Islam and not to Hinduism or Buddhism? It is because Islam teaches you to demolish Islam’s enemies. Fight back. Subjugate others.
Seeing these comments, some of y'all atheists aren't much different from the religious nuts.
I had to scroll down way too much to find comments that aren’t promoting zionism. I have seen religious subs being more progressive than this sub sometimes lol
decontextualized false equivalency This is like saying "why are the native americans so obsessed with pilgrims? natives kill each other too!" violence happens everywhere all the time, why focus on one incident? maybe because it's closest to home for them considering they probably have relatives being killed by Israel. you're also condemning entire groups for bad behavior within the group. why care about violence at all? we're all human, and humans commit violence right?
They're recruiting. So they focus on something topical as hook to get people interested. The same way the far right is doing with muslims at the moment
Because they can make $$
Ever since Mohammed failed to convert Jews, they have had an anti-Semitic obsession. Note, though, this is not unique to Muslims -- when Martin Luther failed to convert Jews, he called for the burning of synagogues. See rocks and trees... Of course, over a thousand years this has waxed and waned. Under Suleiman the Magnificent and the Ottoman Empire, while Jews and Christians were certainly second-class citizens, they were accepted as valid. And Jews were very often better off there than under Christian rule in Europe. That whole stiff-necked thing.
Id give many the benefit of the doubt that they would be consistent when it comes down to it. Also it should be no surprise they are more sensitive specifically to this. Israel is particularly unique, because israel is backed and propped up and apologized for by the west, and the worlds greatest superpower that to say the least has not been their friend. If they are American, they live their whole lives with the narrative about how savage they are or where they come from is. There is a glaring, reprehensible double standard at their expense. Id be barely comprehensible if I was faced with this. I barely am now just seeing it from the other side Not only that plenty of Americans are sensitive to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, ignoring our indefensible acts of terror abroad. Try not to view individuals of a group as one monolithic gelatinous glob
is this whataboutism ?
Not sure if this explains... Large portions of Spain used to be under Islamic dynasties...yet don't seem to see much verbiage against Spain. If it is a matter of time...this doesn't explain the Balkans. Parts of the Balkans were also under Muslim rule and not many seem to care that much....except when the Bosnian genocide happened? Also, the premise seems odd. At the world cup in Qatar, it looked like some non Muslim fans also looked down on Israels actions. Eg. Brazil is not a Muslim country . South Africa is not,, either . Or Ireland Yet, these countries have done more for the Palestinian cause , vocally, than most 'islamic countrie' ...even those that have elections and care about the opinions of their populace. Closest I can think of as an explanation is imperialism. Lot of the developing countries that have experienced occupation by distant European powers....seem to have unfavorable views of Israeli actions. OTOH, these countries are not strangers to wars between neighbors .
It's a genocide in real-time. It's bound to draw much attention.
Isn't this text book "whataboutism" from the OP?
I live in a Muslim-majority society where almost everyone is loudly waving Palestinian flags, while also spewing hate speech against Rohingya refugees who are also fellow Muslims. While some are genuinely concerned about human suffering, many are concerned about Palestinians because of these reasons: - Rampant antisemitism is part of the popular faith, no getting around it, and Muslims here are used to all kinds of conspiracy theories where the world is a battlefield between evil Jews and good Muslims - The strong believe that this is a holy war and if they don’t support it loudly in the eyes of God, they might not get into heaven - A sense of community built around the suffering of another people - Despite being the majority here & enjoying all kinds of institutional privileges, they claim to be oppressed by the minorities and will often use Palestine as an example of “here’s what happens when NATIVE Muslims are too tolerant of immigrants (despite the minorities having lived here for generations) - They love telling us minorities “Be grateful, at least we are not bombing you like the Israelis” - And they will point at minorities who are not sufficiently loud about supporting the Palestinian cause (due to recognizing what the flag waving are all really about) as further proof that non-Muslims have less “humanity” than them and therefore deserve everything coming at them. Don’t get me wrong, I do oppose the atrocities the Israelis are doing and at the end of the day, they stem from the same ethno-religious ideologies as what many Muslims stick to. But you can see why many of us non-Muslims living in Muslim-majority countries are very cynical about it all.
It’s not about religion it is about land theft.
I don’t understand how Jews in Israel are colonizing if it’s their ethnic and historical homeland, and up until the formation of Israel had been ethnically cleansed from Israel and the Middle East for centuries? I agree they have committed atrocities and should be condemned. Let’s use another example. Say all of the First Nation tribes banned together in North America and took over or were given land (like the post world war 2 formation of Israel) and did the exact same thing. Now they couldn’t be defined as colonizers since they would be taking back their ethnic and historical homeland, but they would still be committing war crime or atrocities. I actually agree with the Pro-Palestine camp mostly, but I still don’t understand the logic that they’re colonizers like Europeans who invaded and colonized North America, South America, Africa, Asia, etc….
It definitely is annoying. But the overall media hegemony of western countries has definitely gotten diluted. I’m actually glad that we are hearing everyone’s perspective. Gen population needs a little more education. As for influencers with an agenda, ones that are aligned with GCC govt. agenda tend to get amplified a lot more. There are quite a few content creators/social workers protesting the treatment of their own people by these governments. But they never get featured, because their own governments don’t want to be held accountable. Add to that, the Internet’s voracious appetite for extreme views and drama, and you have the perfect recipe for disaster.
The reason for that is because they don’t actually care about the innocent lives lost in any conflict. The only reason they “support” Palestine is because they are under the false belief that the Jews are the ones perpetrating this violence, and thus will find any excuse to hate on Jews for existing. The other reason they would support Palestine, is because by doing so they are attempting to get rid of the Jewish ancestral ties to the land, to try rid the Jewish race of any connection to the land to which they are native to. In this way if there would be no Israel, another Jewish diaspora would occur, and we would be right back to where we were when Islam was invented by Mohamed
Because Islam has a problem with anyone who doesn't bend down to it's whims and wishes, Except China. Israel, India are both on that list.
> The treatment Palestinians have to face is absolutely unfair, no one should get murdered by a colonizing state for inhabiting a land. I don't want to detract from your argument, but that really isn't what's happening.
Is the treatment unfair? Yes, the civilians shouldn’t suffer like that. But Israel tried to make peace a lot of times and have always been attacked anyway. The Muslim countries refused to live alongside Jews and started war after war and attack after attack.
The same reason Europeans got obsessed with Ukraine: it’s a readily sympathetic case where people you can relate to are being killed
Western Europeans have little in common with Ukrainians though? That seems like a very different conflict to me. They don't have a complex history of back and forth violence. Russia was given nukes, access to Sevastopol, eventually Crimea. They just wanted more?
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jerusalem. Third holiest city in Islam behind Mecca and Medina. Plus the jewish conquest of palestine fucked over a bunch of arab muslims and the umma are required to stick together.
Israel is the only country where Muslims get put in their place and it offends them a lot.
Funnily enough Israel is the only country in the middle east that give Muslims human rights
It's literally a multicultural democracy with multiple Arab parties, while essentially every other Middle Eastern country is an Arab/Muslim ethnostate where non-Arabs and non-Muslims are denied basic human rights. But remember, Israel is an apartheid ethnostate and literally the most evil and racist country in human history.
I like how they claim its an apartheid state, and I'm like if it were an apartheid state Arab citizens wouldn't exist within Israel, they would all be on the other side of the wall in the occupied territories.
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I think they're mostly neglecting the fact that apartheid has a very specific definition as a system to oppress people. Either Israel is very bad at implementing it or they aren't at all.
Middle east? Tell me all the countries there, and tell me which one have human rights and which one have no human rights? Please add source.
Put in their place? JFC.
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Right, so why are you posting in support of a group that literally has genocide in their charter? You’re not very smart are you?
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In general, I'd say it's because there is a highly-militarized state with views not entirely compatible with the rest of the region sitting in their backyard. As someone in the U.S., I imagine it would be like North Korea being given Iowa.
Is whataboutism the punchline ? Anyway the answer to your question is because the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for the better part of a century and has become deeply rooted in popular culture accross the world. It's also one of the most mediatised. But I assure you I loath the Saouds just as much because of what they did/are doing to Yemen.
Last I heard Muslim countries have not extended a hand for asylum
Why did Oct 7 happen? Jews: Because they think we are going to build a 3rd temple in place of Al Aqsa Palestinians: Because we think Jews will destroy Al Aqsa Western tankie: Because of apartheid genocide!!!
Probably because Israel is committing war crimes against other people. Everyone, everywhere should be “obsessed” with this.
Russia is also committing war crimes against humanity yet you never see a single muslim country holding up the Ukrainian flags. Afghanistan has also committed war crimes against humanity yet you don't seem to care. So no.
Killing a human shield isn't a war crime, but hiding behind them is. Ironically, blaming Israel only validates the war crime, encouraging Hamas to throw more Gazans under the bus as meat shields, instead of ending the war today by surrendering.
Islamophobia is not racism. It's a religion. Anti-semites is.
There are no Muslim countries doing "more or less" what Israel is doing. There is no concentration camp of two million atheists or LGBT people being deliberately starrved and bombed in any of those countries. We need to find ways of advocating for religious tolerance and LGBT rights without ridiculous exaggeration.
They aren’t at war bc Palestine “was occupying land” they are at war bc Hamas keeps starting wars with Israel like the October 7th terrorist attack where Israel was invaded and ppl were murdered, raped and kidnapped.
Agree. What Israel is doing is completely disproportionate, but that doesn't excuse the attack that caused the response. Especially when they say that rape doesn't exist in the Muslim culture because Allah forbids it, yet there are multiple videos of female Israeli hostages getting out of vehicles in blood soaked pants.
And videos of the actual attacks, and victim testimonies presented to the UN.
Two wrongs don't make a right. A white person can be upset about racism against POC without being a hypocrite even though whites have historically been the oppressors of POC. All faiths suck, but the bombings/dead children on the news happen to be in Palestine at the moment so people (whether Muslim or otherwise) are speaking out. It is also fair to ask why the same sympathy is not shown to the people of South Sudan, the Rohingya, the citizens of Myanmar, the Uyighers (sp?), etc., etc. A dead child is a dead child, whether Israeli or Palestinian or Jew or Muslim or atheist. If you see things categorically (as in the unnecessary death of a child is categorically wrong), you can ignore the hypocrisy inherent in any person/govt condemning another person/govt and focus on the substance of the act being condemned. None of us is perfect, but that does not mean we should shut up and stay silent for fear of being labeled a hypocrite. No race/creed/faith/government is free from blame for past actions.
Can you elaborate and explain about others conflict you mention? How's the scale of the problem?
You assume that logical consistency and individual rights are more important than the dominance of the faith. For way too many Abrahamic theists, the dominance of the superior ideology (as far as the individual mind in question is concerned) is more important than logical truth or individual self-determination or any of those great models of wisdom and freedom. Western Abrahamic theists (usually Christians) in particular are happy to champion Enlightenment values of natural rights and due process and equal protection under the law UNLESS the question of “What is going to further the cause of my belief system?” is a part of the considerations and the answer to that question runs counter to those Enlightenment values. In that case, all of those other values—including logical consistency itself—can readily be set aside. The cause is the chief value. Other values are acceptable as long as they don’t interfere with the cause. This an issue with dogmatic thinking in general (even in secular institutions like Soviet Russia and North Korea and post-Maoist China), but Muslims and Christians are the biggest and most problematic demonstrations of this way of thinking in the world today.
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Give them a break, they deserved it. Probably the only break they'll ever deserve.
Muslim and Jewish have been at odds for centuries.
I'm a Muslim (white American background) and I disagree with this. I'm still upvoting for thoughtful content. The bigger problem is that it's a 1st World and 3rd World divide, so the education gap levels are extremely huge, based on socioeconomics. You'll see more nuanced views from 1st World developed Muslims. People take cheap shots all day at Muslims. I could talk for hours and weeks about this topic, because you have to understand Christianity and Judaism are interlinked, historically and by propaganda about Israel (they verbatim share texts), so it becomes very complex. Israel and other foreign occupations/invasions by the U.S. are very closely linked, so it's a good cornerstone of their foreign policy. There's a TON of nuance on both sides to the issue, and unfortunately I don't have a lot of time or resources to write. Best wishes
I think it has to do with them using this situation as A recruiting moment they see how people are sympathizing with the Palestinian people who are in the majority Muslim and they're taking advantage of that to try to convert people which is an absolutely disgusting thing to do Don't be mistaken I'm glad People are speaking out regardless of the reason I just wished they didn't have Other motives than just caring for there fellow man I expect every one to stand against any injustice they see and if they don't I don't care who they are I believe them to be evil at mind The truth is I have spoken to many lovely Muslim people who do Not have extremist views who I'll actually supportive of queer people Don't get me wrong that's not the majority of them I'm just simply pointing out that I can get along with any one of any belief as long as They are not trying to convert me or being bigoted
There’s a word for this phenomenon; POOP. Progressive Only On Palestine. But yeah either they’re not educated about those issues or simply don’t care.
Hm... I wonder why
yes. more particular to the Israel-Palestine conflict itself, no Muslims oppose Hamas. They know it’s bad. but they don’t address that parasite, just the Israeli extremists . this forces many people to support Israel over all of the innocents because they view Palestinians as terrorists
>no Muslims oppose Hamas Well apart from the Saudis.