Excellent comedian Jimmy Carr is an outspoken atheist. He pokes fun at “all” religions. On one of his Netflix specials he made *very* negative jokes about a few brands of Jesus followers, Jews, Scientology, etc. Then he said, “You’ll notice that I didn’t mention Islam—that’s because I’m not an idiot. What are the Catholics going to do—forgive me?”
See, he could have given the Atheism subreddit here a shout-out. We face practically no consequences here for criticizing the most violently intolerant creed ever invented.
Just don't travel to any of these countries
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/12/13-countries-where-atheism-punishable-death/355961/
I tried to buy a plane ticket on IsisAir... they only sell "half-way" tickets.
And of course, all 13 countries identified by the study are Muslim majority. Though to be fair, there are christians in the USA who would condemn us to death if they could.
Yes, "let's bomb abortion clinics to save some tissue even if it means killing actual human beings... God told me to".
Lunatics aren't just in Muslim countries...
Certainly not! Any religion can devolve into extremism and be extremely harmful. They’re just pointing out how all of the countries on that list have one religion in common unfortunately. This I think is what OP was talking about. Criticizing Christianity is popular and people love to do it and shit on Christians quite a lot (I was raised in an evangelical church so I do it too haha) but as soon as you shit on some of the harmful and oppressive stuff that comes from Islam, or the countries that weaponize that religion for control, you’re called a bigot.
Criticizing Christianity is the result of people having to live with Christianity every single day, not because it's just a popular punching bag for funsies. The majority of people in western countries did not grow up surrounded on all sides by Islam, they grew up raised in and surrounded by Christianity. Christianity is also a huge driving force behind our political policies, and Islam is generally not.
It's distressing to me that nobody seems to know that Uganda is a highly majority Christian country, even higher majority than the US, and while they're not on the list for punishing atheism, they do condemn gay people to death.
The problem is that people point at Islam and say how much more oppressive and worse it is than Christianity, but they either ignore or are completely ignorant to the many examples of Christian-based oppression in other countries, including things like child slavery and child soldiers and witch burnings still going on, because they're convinced the "white/western" religion is at least better than the scary "foreign" religion.
The truth is that the two are almost the same fucking religion.
You're conflating a lot of things here.
1. Colonization, raping, pillaging of land is bad.
2. Colonizers tended to be 'enlightened' Europeans from hundreds of years ago. We call their asses out all of the time.
3. Most countries held by colonizers fought back and gained independence but decades of colonization mentality hasn't gone away.
4. However, the majority of Islam hasn't gone through the social and political reform required to be seen as anything but totally backwards.
5. Lax migration policies has allowed for a tremendous amount of large groups of people to relocate and essentially create mini-country neighborhoods that do nothing but enforce status quo without assimilating to the host nation.
6. Large groups of heavily conservative Muslim men migrate to other countries and because their social practices abhor pre-marital sex you get a lot of pent up angry young men in a land they don't care about.
7. Look at the effects of mass Muslim migration into former secular societies.
Here's a nice rule of thumb: If you want to compare whether Group A or Group B represents a bigger threat *today*, and you find yourself needing to compare things that Group A did *yesterday* with things that Group B did *three hundred years ago*; you've basically already answered the question.
That's not to say that Group B *isn't* still very very bad, or that Group B *doesn't* represent a very real threat *today*. But it does mean that the argument that "Group A's threat ought to be dismissed because Group B exists" is **utterly dead on arrival**.
You should be aware, however, that Uganda is a highly majority Christian country, even higher majority than the US, and while they're not on the list for punishing atheism, they do condemn gay people to death.
It’s sort of a “new” religion thing. Islam is going through it now. The Christians had their crusades, the Jews had the entire section of the OT where they were killing everyone around.
I went 2.5 years ago to visit my expat sis and her family (who have since returned to the US). I had to be explicit with our two kids to say nothing about my (or our older one’s) atheism under any circumstances. We were fine for the week and a half we were there.
Yes, they pay an enormous amount of money to sell that image overseas. It's called soft power, and they've invested heavily into it. They were actually one of the most forward thinking countries in the Middle East to invest in soft power. I mean Turkey has a fair amount of soft power, but the UAE really went state sponsored with it.
Saudi Arabia is following their blueprint too, expect a lot more "Saudis are pretty cool actually" stuff showing up shortly. Lots of Saudis sponsoring your favorite sports, music, etc.
This sub literally has Islamic style blasphemy laws. A post about about muslims in Europe has been removed for content violation
Also this place used to have draw muhamamd day, now it’s a bannable offence
I have also seen some recent interviews with Richard Dawkins and he is obviously holding his tongue in criticizing Islam. I mean... Look how those fools have impacted the life of Salman Rushdie for decades. He lost a fucking eye, but they would have preferred to kill him!
Yep, just a massive over-swinging of the pendulum to the side of acceptance after 9/11 with that sentiment IMO. It will come back to bite us in the ass assuredly. Islam stands against literally all of our progressive values. Paradox of tolerance is relative here.
Thankfully we’ve done a pretty good job of keeping it a small demographic in the country big picture outside of a few towns. I don't see that changing. In America, by far the larger threat is Christian nationalism and it isn't even close IMO, but I do worry that this over-acceptance is creating fundamental hypocrisy in the progressive movement because they stand against every damn value we have.
>Thankfully we’ve done a pretty good job of keeping it a small demographic in the country big picture outside of a few towns.
That's only effective in the immediate term. They multiply like rabbits. I live in a housing complex with a number of Muslim families (not in the US) and my 7 kids (guess what I like to do for fun) makes my family of *average* size for the neighborhood.
Well, Project 2025 promises to get rid of the Dept of Homeland Security altogether. I’m sure the radical Islamists are stoked. We just caught 8 the other day ready to blow us up again. Radical any religion is not a good thing and we’re about to become a radical Christian Nationalist nation so gear up and get ready.
Project 2025 also says that Muslims will be deported. This is the weirdest case of *the enemy of my enemy is my friend* I’ve ever seen. If Trump gets in office, Christian Nationalists will likely go full domestic terrorist on Islam before they come after us.
I believe the FBI has stated numerous times that Christian Nationalism presents an even greater threat to US national security than radical Islamic terrorism.
I’m relieved to hear the FBI is aware of that fact and I hope they’re acting accordingly. It’s a shame when you have to put your own citizens on a watchlist for possible future acts of domestic terrorism.
The Southern Poverty Law Center also does an excellent job of keeping tabs on the 800+ hate groups identified and designated as internal threats to public safety and national security.
The FBI task force against terroism tracks any group that threatens violence as a way of protest, recruitment or political agenda. The list is... very extensive. And is very non-partisan. KKK, BLM, Q-Anon and Anonymous have all either been on or still are on that list. That's in addition to certain street gangs, international groups and mafia organizations. Say what you want about the FBI, but they are an equal opportunity security group.
I wasn't sure I believed you when you said they wanted to dismantle it, but I looked it up, and sure as shit, they do. They have PDFs of each chapter on their website that you can download to read it. Jfc smh
I think that's part of it, but I think there's weird historical stuff washing around there too.
**Example**: The US has always been super soft on Irish Republican terror. Huge part of the funding of it for basically all of its history. UK definitely bad, in the same way 'US bad'.
The IRA had fairly deep ties with the PLO. US St Patrick's Day cash turns into Soviet made weapons, with spaces to train. ['One Struggle' ](https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/s/VsvaUcWHMq) is still seen. Glasgow Celtic supporters still [chant for Palestine](https://youtu.be/qf58hbLP7jU?si=P2IC0w9E5C-TjIMf). If the UK and US are perceived as being on Israel's side then whoever they are against has to be the 'good guys'.
Chuck in some leftover Soviet propaganda that still resonates, and is supported by the new Russia. There you are: *Queers for Palestine.*
Anyone that’s an older millennial and up remembers 9/11. This seems to be a zoomer thing. You’re right about one thing, I don’t feel they’re done with attacks coming from inside the country. Earlier this month the FBI arrested 8 men that have ties to ISIS. This was in NY, Philly and LA. They got into the country by sneaking across the Mexican border, hoping to get lost in a sea of Latino immigrants.
I'd say that it's more a matter of western society not putting up with that shit from the god-botherers any longer. Look at that rapist-supporting trash on the American right and tell me that they wouldn't go just as far if they could.
Probably because the USA is aware of its own racism, say Muslim and I imagine a brown person. A lot of American politics is organized around fighting over what is and what is not racist.
Look at the top five arguments in any political issue you care for, race will be in there and probably in the first three brought up. Talk about inflation? I’ll be asked about what groups will be hurt and skin comes up. Education? How funding practices leave black students with less money per child. The roads? Black communities that got paved over, and how black businesses were demolished to build our highways.
There is not a subject in the USA that race will not be brought up. Muslims are assumed to not be white and that activates rally points.
Which enables it. It’s one and the same. I don’t dislike middle easterners or Arabs at all, but I sure as hell will hate a religion that hates me.
But yes I agree. Progressives need to stop this black and white perfectly harmonic nonsense. The world isn't perfect.
I've heard times and times again from the mouth of (non-religious) progressives that Islam is "a religion of peace". And in the same breath, violently criticise Christianity. It's much more than just refusing to criticise it, it's actively enabling and defending it.
Here in France, radical secularism is basically dead. Anti-clericalism towards Christianity is still lingering a bit, but that's about it.
Ask them which sect of Christianity will rule the US when we became a “Christian Nation “? Catholics, Evangelicals, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, Mormons, etc?
Liberals: "Nobody should be persecuted."
Conservatives: "But we should persecute Muslims, right?"
Liberals: "Nah, man. Don't persecute anybody."
Conservatives: "Take away their rights? Deport them?"
Liberals: "They get the same rights as anyone else. Don't persecute-"
Conservatives: "See! They love Islam!"
I don’t think that’s correct. All that happened is that in the west humanitarian values took a hold, and Christian institutions decided to play along as they couldn’t stem tide. Given a chance, they’ll revert ASAP to the exact same standards. See the ongoing Christian right push for power in the US.
Now the majority of Islam countries haven’t developed this shift, but I don’t think this is due to the religion as such. Countries like the UAE and SA only are on our radar because they are filthy rich, so they appear on our radar as let’s say hosts of a football world championship, where that clashes with the progressive LGBTQ-values the FIFA otherwise spouts. And immigrants form these countries are (in general) more conservative.
So, yes: if at the current state of the world randomly sample from the population, chances for a conservative, misogynist etc world view are highly correlated with Islam. But again I don’t think this is baked into the religion. As religions are amazing at adapting to the surrounding societal movements.
Oh yea
I don't understand those muslim suicide bombers, dying in horrible pain only for a chance to have 72 virgins in heaven
Just be a catholic priest and have them now
My Trinity is Jimmy Carr, Milton Jones, and Anthony Jeselnick. Jones is brilliant and his delivery flawless—thank gawd he never includes his Catholicism in his act.
Objective for Project 2025: Buy or prosecute Reddit and identify all users, and specifically identify the real identities of users in r/atheism as a first step.
Islam "gets a pass" on some things because people are literally afraid of it. An example is showing drawings of the prophet Muhammad. People end up dying when that happens. So it's the third rail nobody dares touch.
Rushdie wrote a fiction novel in the 80's Islam didn't like and they called for his death. He's been attacked, maimed and nearly killed.
In a sense that's a "pass."
Not just the author, but a bunch of people like translators and publishers as well:
>Hitoshi Igarashi, Rushdie's Japanese translator, was found by a cleaning lady, stabbed to death in his office at the University of Tsukuba on 13 July 1991. Ten days prior to Igarashi's killing, Rushdie's Italian translator Ettore Capriolo was seriously injured by an attacker at his home in Milan by being stabbed multiple times on 3 July 1991.[23] William Nygaard, the Norwegian publisher of The Satanic Verses, was critically injured by being shot three times in the back by an assailant on 11 October 1993 in Oslo. Nygaard survived, but spent months in the hospital recovering. The book's Turkish translator Aziz Nesin was the intended target of a mob of arsonists who set fire to the Madimak Hotel after Friday prayers on 2 July 1993 in Sivas, Turkey, killing 37 people, mostly Alevi scholars, poets and musicians. Nesin escaped death when the fundamentalist mob failed to recognize him early in the attack. Known as the Sivas massacre, it is remembered by Alevi Turks who gather in Sivas annually and hold silent marches, commemorations and vigils for the slain.[24]
>
>In March 2016, the bounty for the Rushdie fatwa was raised by $600,000 (£430,000). Top Iranian media contributed this sum, adding to the existing $2.8 million already offered.[25] In response, the Swedish Academy, which awards the Nobel Prize in Literature, denounced the death sentence and called it "a serious violation of free speech". This was the first time it had commented on the issue since the book's publication.[26]
>
>On 12 August 2022, Rushdie was attacked onstage while speaking at an event of the Chautauqua Institution. Rushdie suffered four stab wounds to the stomach area of his abdomen, three wounds to the right side of the front part of his neck, one wound to his right eye, one wound to his chest and one wound to his right thigh.[27] He was flown by helicopter to UPMC Hamot, a tertiary-level hospital in Erie, Pennsylvania.[28] The attacker, Hadi Matar, was immediately taken into custody.[29] He was charged with attempted murder and assault, pleading not guilty, and was remanded in custody.[30] By 14 August, Rushdie was off the ventilator and able to talk.[31] Rushdie's agent Andrew Wylie reported on 23 October that Rushdie had lost sight in one eye and the use of one hand.
Or look at Molly Norris, who had to give up her identity and go into hiding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Draw_Mohammed_Day
What a lot of time and trouble to go through to get one guy. Also, I’m surprised they were able to get to Igarashi in Japan. There’s so many tales of xenophobia surrounding Japan that I would’ve thought they were being watched closely.
I understand your point. But to be clear, few people (speaking of North America and Europe primarily) feel much fear about calling out Christianity for its shortcomings, intolerance, or ridiculousness. Speaking of those inclined to do so, of course. Think of the many thousands of metal songs attacking Christianity, often in the strongest and most insulting terms possible. There are hardly any worrisome repercussions for this. When I say "repercusions" I mean real valid fear of physical harm, instead of fear or ostracism, argument, rudeness, etc.
For example, make a YouTube about saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." Then make a video showing a humourous or insulting drawing of Muhammed. See which one gets you more flak. In reality, YouTube would probably remove the one drawing Muhammed and leave the one about "Happy Holidays."
No, and frankly, the main reason people bring up the bad things that happen in Islamic countries is for the express purpose of giving Christianity and Judaism a pass on their bullshit behavior, from trying to force religion into schools to engaging in full on genocide.
The Abrahamic religions are like that spiderman meme where they are all pointing at each other. They are just different flavors of the same shit.
>No, and frankly, the main reason people bring up the bad things that happen in Islamic countries is for the express purpose of giving Christianity and Judaism a pass on their bullshit behavior, from trying to force religion into schools to engaging in full on genocide.
No that is not the main reason.
Are there people that do that? Yes, and that is shitty and hypocritical of them. But that is not the main reason. Frankly to paint it as the main reason is one of the more common ways/arguments people in the west use to give Islam a pass.
The main reason is what you said in the second part of your comment. The Abrahamic religions are different flavors of the same shit and that is why people bring up bad things that happen in countries that are dominated by a particular one. There's no need to excuse any of them. Problem is a lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea that all three religions are equally shitty.
They are all shitty. It’s nice that Jews don’t threaten me with burning forever. One less thing to worry about. Though there’s still the rape, slavery, genocide, infanticide and pedophillia. Oh and the genital mutilation and misogyny… no doubt a plethora of more crap.
Have you ever heard someone criticizing Islam then getting called racist even though Islam is not a race, but a Abrahamic religion like Christianity or Judaism?(Judaism is a little different, but still)There’s your answer. Now, I say this as a black man if most Muslims were white/descendants of white Europeans, there would not nearly be as much of a pass.
I won’t lie. I always kind of found it funny when people criticize Christianity for XYZ beliefs, but then are completely silent on Islam who have the exact *same* beliefs, but triple down on them. Or even have some beliefs that Christianity even thinks is extreme in it’s conservativeness.
It is not that Islam gets a pass. It is because mostly, in America, few people have to interact with idiotic Muslims. But we have the moron Christians in our faces all the time. Many people have family members that have drank the fundy kool aid. Or have to work with Christian idiots. Or have to live in states where the ruling politicians are right winged Christians trying to establish theocracy on us all.
That explains why people are more aware of and able to criticize/articulate the problems with Christianity, but it doesn't explain the reluctance of some people to acknowledge the parallels between Islam and Christianity. Especially in the face of evidence of not just ideological similarity, but actual real-world efforts to implement the exact sort of regressive policies they are against.
Like sure what you said could explain the mindset of conservatives who are content with just living within a narrow worldview. But many of the people unwilling to acknowledge how Islam is more similar to Christianity than not are progressive and/or supposedly value having a more culturally-sensitive and diverse understanding of the world. So in that sense it kinda still is getting a pass.
"Why does religion get a free pass?"
It's one of the perks of signing up to the religion. You get excused from things you don't want to do, like the ultra Orthodox in Israel, they never had to serve in the army.
Getting coddled because they go into magic buildings sometimes, is what they expect. Its a shock to them when someone says "I don't care where you go or what's going on in your head"
You don’t get it, they mean why does society say “this religion is bad because they say bigoted thing”, but they want another religion said the exact same thing it’s “well that’s just what they believe”. Why do both religious not get treated equal?
Well, that was the title, I was going by
“Why does religion get a free pass? I truly don't belive there is a god, or anything along those lines. And when I say this I'm called an asshole for saying that i genuinely do not believe it and that i hate the idea. I just want someone to explain to me why religion gets free passss”
Usually it’s because one religion has more political power. So like Christianity gets a free pass in America when they pass laws mandating that classrooms display the Ten Commandments, whereas other religious groups couldn’t dream of getting that far. But in other countries the dynamic is reversed
They see us Seculars and Atheists (and Muslims, Christians etc....) in Israel as lesser, obviously they'll think their 'work' is somehow superior
They live off our taxes so they can read some fiction book all day, and they don't even do THAT! So many videos of them partying like crazy.
To summarise, they're leeches.
Yea so about that… 😂
https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+orthodox+conscription&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS1041US1041&oq=israel+orthodox+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCDQ4NjJqMGo3qAIZsAIB4gMEGAIgXw&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
> Why does religion get a free pass?
I would argue that it doesn't. For those that would give it a free pass, that's likely due to some misplaced sense of social propriety, but you don't have to give anybody a free pass if you don't want to. Somebody who used such an argument with me would be met with a "Then that's a shitty religion".
Because the narrative is that brown people are oppressed and white people are the oppressors. If a white Christian had issued whatever the Christian equivalent of a fatwa is on a gay rights author forcing him/her into hiding only to be stabbed when they emerge there would have been wall to wall front page coverage at NYT NPR et al.
Some religions (Islam) get a free pass because they've been labeled "people of color" and therefore can do no wrong. Criticizing muslims, even when they parachute into concerts to rape and murder, is considered "punching down." Thus they get a free pass for racism, homophobia, you name it. Only white men are fair targets for criticism, and that limits criticism to christianity.
Linking the critical evaluation of ideologies to race and racism is the dumbest thing ever to gain traction in the last few decades, and we live in the era of Tiktok, pandemic denialism and Trump.
My family haven't been christians for almost a century so as an atheist white man I'm going to criticize any ideology I please and not feel bad about it.
Basically, some muslims have co-opted left leaning language and parts of the left to try to use it to protect their religion.
It also doesn't help that right-wingers ***genuinely do*** use "muslim" as a stand in for "brown person" frequently.
So, in any given conversation in which someone is "criticizing Islam" against a muslim, it is impossible to tell at first glance whether it is someone actually criticizing Islam and the muslim using stupid buzzword spam to try to shield their religion or just a right-winger being racist and the muslim rightfully calling them out.
That makes it even more difficult for ex-muslims, who get discriminated from one side for their skin colour and other appearance-based characteristics; and discriminated, ostracised and sometimes even violently attacked \[specially in countries where that is part of the law\] because apostasy is anathema to the doctrine of their oppressor.
And they are the ones that, in my opinion, we should be listening to more.
This is true... and I fucking hate how they use left wing language in a ridiculous way that forces me to end up sounding like my conservative family members when I refute it. But The reality is that if most muslims were white westerners, criticizing islam would be considered way more acceptable. And I hate that they make me say shit like that, but the truth is the truth.
Likewise, I hate to give any support at all to christian's bullshit belief that they are somehow a persecuted majority in the US... but there is a clear double standard at times. If I say I don't want to move to the bible belt because of the regressive christianity, lots of liberals enthusiastically agree. If I say I don't want to move to deerborne michigan because there is too much islam, suddenly I'm a "bigot."
I'm sick of this shit. A big part of why I don't like christianity (besides the basic premise of "let's recognize what is and isn't real) is that it's so often regressive. Likewise, I'm "islamaphobic" BECAUSE I'm socially liberal, not in spite of being socially liberal. It's regressive as fuck.
Even on this subreddit (which has many posts criticizing a wide variety of religions), posts about islam always lead to a bunch of "ALL religions are bad!" style comments and whataboutism, because people are so afraid of the idea of being "islamaphobic." Then they act like the negatives of christianity are being ignored... even though the sub is full of posts about how bad christianity is???
"ALL religion are bad!!!" (in that context) is a similar tactic to "ALL lives matter!". It's a technically true statement about a broader subject, used to derail discussion of a more specific issue.
This comes back to something that the philosopher Slavoj Zizek has mentioned a couple of times.
"Let us have our own enemies." A lot of oppressive structures and fake liberation ideologies take the form of "we are liberating/protecting you from an greater \[imaginary, of course\] evil by oppressing you" while the oppressor plays the victim against that "greater \[imaginary\] evil" that becomes the only valid target of criticism. Of course, this is not exclusive to religions, some conservative leaders like orban and trump do it while blaming "western decadence" for example. And its effectiveness is the main reason for the existence of the christian persecution complex and the propaganda of a certain phobia based buzzword.
The real oppressor of the religious believer is the religious leader and his doctrine. They have their own enemies.
That is why the voices of ex-muslims are the most oppressed of them all. The internal voices of reason that can identify that the real enemy is within are the ones that represent a real danger to the oppressor.
No where in the Bible, the Quran, our Dianetics does it say anything about transgenderism. They're making it up because humans are disgusting. Every religion needs to go.
>No where in the Bible, the Quran, our Dianetics does it say anything about transgenderism.
That's a spot on point, but I'd have phrased it as "they don't say anything about trans people" rather than "they don't say anything about transgenderism"
You're likely referring to Deuteronomy 22:5 ("A woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whosoever doeth these things is an abomination unto HaShem thy G-d.") which is part of the OT law that Christians don't have to follow. Christians don't avoid pork, avoid using electricity on the Sabbath, or avoid wearing blended fabrics, so to cherry pick this one to use against trans people when they disregard 90% of OT law is just transphobic.
As for the Jewish interpretation of the same verse, here is a fantastic article (link: [https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/338982?lang=bi](https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/338982?lang=bi) ) that analyses every possible interpretation and concludes the only rational interpretation of the commandment is this: "**In silent prayer, no one may knowingly and intentionally refer to themself as the wrong gender, for concealing one's true self in silent prayer is an abomination to G-D**."
Wrong. Hinduism exists and has multiple gender fluid characters in our mythology. Here's the Wikipedia link if you wanna read it.
[Wikipedia Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology)
Islam always gets a pass and it’s not right. It’s arguably the worst religion today and no one can say anything negative about Islam.
Islam is a poisonous religion.
The difference between a cult and a religion is that a religion has the power and influence to demand respect institutionally, militarily, politically, financially, etc.
Many people don't think critically enough about whether an ideology/creed actually deserves respect, they only see the consequences they face for not giving it respect automatically.
Religion is and always has been a tool for control and oppression. That's a scandalous concept to the people on the other end of the stick. They get the cushy love and forgiveness side, we get the "attempt to persecute out of existence" side. So they could never understand why we don't have the same view on their religion as they do.
In the case of Christianity especially, it's shocking how a religion that touts empathy actually cultivates a lack of it. (Speaking mostly about Christianity personally, just because it's the religion I've got the most experience with, but the broad concept applies)
I feel like Islam gets a huge free pass. God forbid you talk about how fucking hateful, misogynistic, homophobic Islam is. You get called an Islamophobic, racist etc. Has nothing to do with race. Islam is a hateful religion. Just like Christianity.
Hey im trans too and 9/10 times someone has told me that it’s “against their religion” and someone agrees with them. It’s because that person is also a bigot but either is to afraid to be open about it to my face, or thinks that denying my identity and existence “isn’t hateful its just a different opinion”
You are forgetting one other thing. Someone believing they will go to hell or not go to heaven or whatever that life after death thing they imagine is, they will do you harm in life for the fear of losing something they will not even know doesn't exist after they die.
Well, that’s pretty much the result of the fact that certain religions and cultures have been seen as subhuman for a long period of time in the West.
No one should get a pass, I agree. Well, some still believe that instead of combating actual racism, best way to do that is to tolerate horrible parts of certain cultures and religions.
This is your answer, OP.
To openly criticize religion is relatively new compared to the age of these religions. Think of medieval christianity for example, think of how powerful the clergy was and seen as the embodiment of sense and judgment, how the bible was the answer to everything before science broke through, how the vast majority of people was not educated, had no access to information and was too busy with staying alive than thinking about stuff like this, how the bible wasn’t even accessible to most because it was in Latin and they had to rely what they were told.
They get a free pass because people are used to giving it a free pass and it takes ages for something so powerfully webbed into culture to dissolve. I think the process has only really started recently.
Political privilege. Religious fundamentalism always aligns itself with sheep herding authoritarians who love people of blind faith). Mix the 2 together, and you have one major party in America running on lies, corruption, greed, and belief in absolute power , which always corrupts absolutely.
One religion gets to own all a region’s hospitals and dictate care based on their religion views. Frankly, no other religion’s ‘free pass’ would come close. There would be riots in the streets if a mosque controlled a hospital and convened a group of their faith leaders to approve healthcare
Since their beliefs aren't based on evidence and demonstrations they have to respond to backlashes with emotion and people don't bother with it.
Years later it's seen as "untouchable" when it's people's rights to believe and not their beliefs that shouldn't be attacked.
>I've called out transphobia many times online, and a frequent response is 'it's against their religion'
I am strongly of the opinion that one's deeply held religious beliefs are no excuse for inimical actions and opinions. I'll judge you (not OP, just people in general) on the morality of your actions and opinions and I do not give you a pass just because those actions are based on religious belief. If you choose a belief system that requires you to hold unethical positions, that is still a mark against you for choosing that belief system.
Religion gets no free passes in my book. If it’s against THEIR religion then THEY shouldn’t be transgender. It’s THEIR religion & has nothing to do with anyone else (YOU, ME & everyone) who doesn’t practice it. It’s just like any other religious prohibition: what foods you can’t eat, clothes you can’t wear, shit you can’t say… It’s all bullshit.
Same thing goes for who say “I just don’t understand “transgender-ism”.
🙄”Why can’t ‘they’ just blah blah blah blah?”
There’s no requirement to UNDERSTAND being transgender. It’s often very complicated. It’s not up to you to understand it or even like it or agree with what a transgender person thinks. You just have to accept the fact that transgender people are human beings too, ones who deserve to be treated as decently & fairly as any other person.
Ironically it’s actually not against their religion. Abrahamic religions have nothing official to say about being transgender.
Christianity gets a pass because it’s so popular in western regions.
Islam gets a free pass because breeds extremism and people don’t want to get killed for calling it out.
Judaism gets a pass because it’s not common in most places anymore and most christian’s do not understand it very well beyond it being almost an “ancestor” to them.
Better PR. Leveraging "Never forget" past atrocities and victim imagery, while conveniently leaving out the many times in history they were the aggressors/oppressors/conquerers.
You have to remember these semi evolved hairless monkeys don't work well with logic
The way things were are the way things are supposed to be in their delusion
A lot of those of people where I'm from harken back to the 1950's was the best time in america to be alive, a time when racism was so high in public people were segregated by the color of their skin and women were house slaves high on pharmaceutical pills to keep from boredom
Trying to use a logical standpoint with them doesn't work, they don't think that way, they have been brainwashed and socially conditioned to think that a man in the sky determines their thoughts and the whole earth
They would have to break all that mental fuckery to see clearly
Which would prob make them go psychotic
Why should you get a free pass? You can say that you don't believe in God, they can say that they don't believe in people changing their genders. It cuts both ways.
As an agnostic, I don't really believe it does. I think it's a social issue, and society always seems to be inclusive to everyone but...you!(not you specifically) It's rather annoying, and will stay that way until everyone decides the live and let live pathway is the best for us all, but we have to practice it, not preach it.
There is no religion that has transphobia in their holy book. That’s a person using religion as an excuse to be hateful. Transphobia should not be tolerated anywhere. Shut that sh!t down.
I even met a transphobic atheist, which baffles me. We argued about whether trans women should be in women’s sports. 🤬 Ugh. She really didn’t have an argument why they should be excluded. I was disappointed when Ricky Gervais started with the transphobia too. Most atheists seem to be allies.
Religion is just organized superstition and hate. But humans are illogical and unintelligent animals who have been brainwashed to follow their superstitions for thousands of years so it's very difficult to convince them to stop. And the people who run the government find it convenient for distracting the masses.
TBH, I think trans-people make a lot of mainstream people uncomfortable. They just hide behind religion as the reason for their feelings rather than being honest about it. It’s their way of “passing the buck”. Like, “I’m okay, but Jesus said it was a sin, and I trust Jesus.” (And, course, Jesus and/or the Bible never mention trans-people directly)
I’ve gotten in a number of arguments **right here with other atheists** who will defend Islam, particularly with the current situation in Gaza. It’s a horrible religion invented by a schizophrenic pedophile, and only serves to make the world a worse place.
The thing is, the liberal left (and I say this as a liberal leftist) wants to protect non-European groups. It’s not a bad thing at all, noble even, to be against neocolonialism and the destruction of indigenous culture. But when that culture is set on violence and repression, it shouldn’t be defended.
When someone says that ask them to show you the relevant passages in their particular religions scriptures. You will likely not find any. Don’t let them blame their religion for something that is solidly on them.
I'm sorry you get shit on by people "claiming" to be religious. I'm not an atheist, and while being trans isn't for me, or something I can understand (because it's not my lived experience) I am in no place to tell you what to do. There are assholes in every group and every religion, even amongst atheists. I wish the one thing we could agree on is to just leave each other alone.
No religions should get a pass. They never reciprocate the gesture so follow suit. The time for religion to die has long passed. That kind of wish-think has had more than enough time to demonstrate its deficiency in progressive coexistence and show its true nature as a potential for harm.
Culture also gets a free pass. The amount of times I see people defending horrendous cultural traditions because 'it's their culture' is insane. As religion is also tradition and culture I think it falls in the same category.
Just like religious affiliation in the first place, I think it depends on where you are. Christianity typically gets a free pass in the US, Islam is largely seen negatively. I'd imagine it's at least to some extent the opposite in India.
I've always wondered why this fact alone seemingly isn't enough to alert people to the fact that something isn't quite right with religion, but comfort is just that powerful I guess.
Because some people have decided to define themselves by being morally righteous, rather than critical thinkers. So where the rights of one minority or oft-victimised group overlaps another, it becomes a bit of a crap shoot which one floats to the surface, rather than applying the same critical thinking and empathy equally across the board as one might hope.
Because religious people form overwhelming majority of the human population and most of them belong to only 4 religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism).
Most of the time it's someone from these religions that spouts hatred publicly and since they are a majority in their respective countries the accountability for their actions is naturally low because the perpetrators are backed up religious institutions that are closely tied up with the government.
Odd how it almost entirely depends on public opinion of said religion in the immediate environs.
The religious will defend their parasitic brain disease because that's what the disease demands of them.
I'm not sure, but probably to "respect" those "people". I don't even know why the Universial Declaration of Human Rights has the freedom of religion, (opinion) I think that is stupid and should be removed. I'm not condoning hate of others, it's just that religious ideas are extreme.
Religion only gets a free pass if no one speaks up. Ridicule and berating others is just a bully response and ghosting others is something religions are good at that. Humility is not what they practice even if their prophet or savior teaches it.
Speak up. Call out the differences as valid because even religions or denominations can not agree with each other.
And I will ask a religious zealot does your god tell you hate is good? Assuming they aren't lunatics they will say no and I say neither do I. You believe that for your reasons and I believe that for mine. How you treat others is more important than your denominational belief/theology.
Engaging in the question is there a god or not will only take you down a rabbit hole of illogic. You don't need to prove that god exists or not.
Maybe that might work when dealing with religious zealots.
Hitchens describes it quite well, "In our societies it poses as a cringing minority, whose faith you might offend, which deserves all the protections that a small and vulnerable group might need."
Most religions don’t. I pretty vocally critique as many religions as possible, at least among my peers (within limits).
Some religions do because they are strongly correlated with oppressed classes in the US, like black and brown people, and others get the pass because most people aren’t educated on them.
I think it gets a free pass largely because religious belief has historically been so widespread. At least, I think that's part of the reason. It's been around for so long and has so dominated human culture that it's become very taboo to openly criticise it. Even if you go back 30 or 40 years, being an open critic of religion often suggested you might be some sort of anarchist or troublemaker - it's a bit like criticising the nuclear family back in the 50s.
I'm sure there's much more to it, but I think religion's widespread stranglehold on culture and society has played a big role in making it impossible to criticise safely for much of history.
quite simply, you are questioning the thing they have become comfortable with that makes them feel like they are set for life. You are challenging the belief system they have decided is truth and therefore the only response they can muster is to blame you for THIER discomfort.
Because it offers people something they NEED to believe is true.
The mental gymnastics they resort to in order to explain their beliefs is quite the show. They don't do this to many other subjects because the cost is not as high.
Religion also gets a pass because some people are not willing to criticize it because they don't want to be labelled as "intolerant."
They feel that they can "hate the sin but not the sinner," and think they have a pass because they're not condeming you, they're condemning your way of life.
An argument that strangely falls apart when you apply the same to them, and explain you should have a pass too, because you don't hate them, you hate their religion.
(I'm being sarcastic, my point is, they have a stupid justification that doesn't work. You can't condemn someone's way of life or value system while somehow disentangling them from it).
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here, but let's be honest. In America Christians unfortunately dominate the public sphere, and instead of just worshipping in their homes and churches they want to push their bullshit on everyone.
If you run into a Buddhist or a member of the Baha'i Faith they are unlikely to push their agenda in person, or in the political sphere.
No one cares because for the most part they worship peacefully.
Srsly, friend, you need to check out Unitarian Universalism. In our congregation, a majority of our paid staff is Queer, we had a Trans music director (the next one was a Gay man who could sing like nobody I've ever heard), and Unitarians are basically mostly Atheists that figured out there are some awesome and inspiring things to talk about that don't involve invisible imaginary beings, and that community is fulfilling. You'd be included and welcomed for who you are. Challenged to grow into who you are becoming.
It seems to me that there's a lot of religious people here who like to dogpile on the religions they oppose while white-knighting their own. Bigots see other people's atheism as cover for their own hate.
“Your religion is against me, so fuck your religion, fuck your god, your heaven, your beliefs, your sins, and your opinions. Fuck you. “ that should just about cover an adequate response
I still think Ramana Maharshi was right when he said all world religions point to the same truth. Most religions you have to focus on what the sages talk about and not the common peddlers who aren’t focusing their adherents on realizing it and instead keep them going in the body/world fallacy.
Simple fixes here:
1) Don't call shit out online. These are places where people will disagree with you just for the sake of doing so. You can't stop them, all you can do is stop yourself. It's hard though, I get it, fucking with idiots on reddit is fun.
2) Assuming you're talking about a religion that involves Adam and Eve, trans should be celebrated, as God was the first to help someone transition. God made Adam in his image, simple enough. Adam got horny, so God took his rib to make Eve. That would make Eve a clone, and therefore a man. Adam needed a woman, not a man, so God changed the clone from Adam 2 to Eve. Eve is trans.
Just for fun, the fucked up part comes later. Adam and Eve were the only 2 people created by God. OK cool. Adam and Eve made babies, as married couples do, cool. Cain and Abel, 2 boys. Now there's 3 guys and 1 woman on earth? Mother fucker has different meaning in the church. Also, technically, that means that generation 2 and generation 3 of the human species, and therefore all humanity, wouldn't exist if a trans person didn't get laid.
Excellent comedian Jimmy Carr is an outspoken atheist. He pokes fun at “all” religions. On one of his Netflix specials he made *very* negative jokes about a few brands of Jesus followers, Jews, Scientology, etc. Then he said, “You’ll notice that I didn’t mention Islam—that’s because I’m not an idiot. What are the Catholics going to do—forgive me?”
See, he could have given the Atheism subreddit here a shout-out. We face practically no consequences here for criticizing the most violently intolerant creed ever invented.
Just don't travel to any of these countries https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/12/13-countries-where-atheism-punishable-death/355961/ I tried to buy a plane ticket on IsisAir... they only sell "half-way" tickets.
And of course, all 13 countries identified by the study are Muslim majority. Though to be fair, there are christians in the USA who would condemn us to death if they could.
Yes, "let's bomb abortion clinics to save some tissue even if it means killing actual human beings... God told me to". Lunatics aren't just in Muslim countries...
Certainly not! Any religion can devolve into extremism and be extremely harmful. They’re just pointing out how all of the countries on that list have one religion in common unfortunately. This I think is what OP was talking about. Criticizing Christianity is popular and people love to do it and shit on Christians quite a lot (I was raised in an evangelical church so I do it too haha) but as soon as you shit on some of the harmful and oppressive stuff that comes from Islam, or the countries that weaponize that religion for control, you’re called a bigot.
Criticizing Christianity is the result of people having to live with Christianity every single day, not because it's just a popular punching bag for funsies. The majority of people in western countries did not grow up surrounded on all sides by Islam, they grew up raised in and surrounded by Christianity. Christianity is also a huge driving force behind our political policies, and Islam is generally not. It's distressing to me that nobody seems to know that Uganda is a highly majority Christian country, even higher majority than the US, and while they're not on the list for punishing atheism, they do condemn gay people to death. The problem is that people point at Islam and say how much more oppressive and worse it is than Christianity, but they either ignore or are completely ignorant to the many examples of Christian-based oppression in other countries, including things like child slavery and child soldiers and witch burnings still going on, because they're convinced the "white/western" religion is at least better than the scary "foreign" religion. The truth is that the two are almost the same fucking religion.
You're conflating a lot of things here. 1. Colonization, raping, pillaging of land is bad. 2. Colonizers tended to be 'enlightened' Europeans from hundreds of years ago. We call their asses out all of the time. 3. Most countries held by colonizers fought back and gained independence but decades of colonization mentality hasn't gone away. 4. However, the majority of Islam hasn't gone through the social and political reform required to be seen as anything but totally backwards. 5. Lax migration policies has allowed for a tremendous amount of large groups of people to relocate and essentially create mini-country neighborhoods that do nothing but enforce status quo without assimilating to the host nation. 6. Large groups of heavily conservative Muslim men migrate to other countries and because their social practices abhor pre-marital sex you get a lot of pent up angry young men in a land they don't care about. 7. Look at the effects of mass Muslim migration into former secular societies.
Here's a nice rule of thumb: If you want to compare whether Group A or Group B represents a bigger threat *today*, and you find yourself needing to compare things that Group A did *yesterday* with things that Group B did *three hundred years ago*; you've basically already answered the question. That's not to say that Group B *isn't* still very very bad, or that Group B *doesn't* represent a very real threat *today*. But it does mean that the argument that "Group A's threat ought to be dismissed because Group B exists" is **utterly dead on arrival**.
You should be aware, however, that Uganda is a highly majority Christian country, even higher majority than the US, and while they're not on the list for punishing atheism, they do condemn gay people to death.
Let the 🍊🤡💩 back in the WH and these evangelical nutjobs will start executing people. That’s what the camps will be for.
It’s sort of a “new” religion thing. Islam is going through it now. The Christians had their crusades, the Jews had the entire section of the OT where they were killing everyone around.
They want to do what the Muslim theocracies do. It's envy.
So much for going to UAE. I always thought that country was kinda cool.
Could go.. just don't mention how stupid their beliefs are... can always say you are a Pastafarian... I went to Malaysia without thinking about it
I went 2.5 years ago to visit my expat sis and her family (who have since returned to the US). I had to be explicit with our two kids to say nothing about my (or our older one’s) atheism under any circumstances. We were fine for the week and a half we were there.
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Yeah, definitely doesn't sound like a good or safe place to be.
Yes, they pay an enormous amount of money to sell that image overseas. It's called soft power, and they've invested heavily into it. They were actually one of the most forward thinking countries in the Middle East to invest in soft power. I mean Turkey has a fair amount of soft power, but the UAE really went state sponsored with it. Saudi Arabia is following their blueprint too, expect a lot more "Saudis are pretty cool actually" stuff showing up shortly. Lots of Saudis sponsoring your favorite sports, music, etc.
This sub literally has Islamic style blasphemy laws. A post about about muslims in Europe has been removed for content violation Also this place used to have draw muhamamd day, now it’s a bannable offence
I have also seen some recent interviews with Richard Dawkins and he is obviously holding his tongue in criticizing Islam. I mean... Look how those fools have impacted the life of Salman Rushdie for decades. He lost a fucking eye, but they would have preferred to kill him!
That’s why I miss Hitchens..
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Yep, just a massive over-swinging of the pendulum to the side of acceptance after 9/11 with that sentiment IMO. It will come back to bite us in the ass assuredly. Islam stands against literally all of our progressive values. Paradox of tolerance is relative here.
Thankfully we’ve done a pretty good job of keeping it a small demographic in the country big picture outside of a few towns. I don't see that changing. In America, by far the larger threat is Christian nationalism and it isn't even close IMO, but I do worry that this over-acceptance is creating fundamental hypocrisy in the progressive movement because they stand against every damn value we have.
>Thankfully we’ve done a pretty good job of keeping it a small demographic in the country big picture outside of a few towns. That's only effective in the immediate term. They multiply like rabbits. I live in a housing complex with a number of Muslim families (not in the US) and my 7 kids (guess what I like to do for fun) makes my family of *average* size for the neighborhood.
Well, Project 2025 promises to get rid of the Dept of Homeland Security altogether. I’m sure the radical Islamists are stoked. We just caught 8 the other day ready to blow us up again. Radical any religion is not a good thing and we’re about to become a radical Christian Nationalist nation so gear up and get ready.
Project 2025 also says that Muslims will be deported. This is the weirdest case of *the enemy of my enemy is my friend* I’ve ever seen. If Trump gets in office, Christian Nationalists will likely go full domestic terrorist on Islam before they come after us.
I believe the FBI has stated numerous times that Christian Nationalism presents an even greater threat to US national security than radical Islamic terrorism.
I’m relieved to hear the FBI is aware of that fact and I hope they’re acting accordingly. It’s a shame when you have to put your own citizens on a watchlist for possible future acts of domestic terrorism.
The Southern Poverty Law Center also does an excellent job of keeping tabs on the 800+ hate groups identified and designated as internal threats to public safety and national security.
The FBI task force against terroism tracks any group that threatens violence as a way of protest, recruitment or political agenda. The list is... very extensive. And is very non-partisan. KKK, BLM, Q-Anon and Anonymous have all either been on or still are on that list. That's in addition to certain street gangs, international groups and mafia organizations. Say what you want about the FBI, but they are an equal opportunity security group.
I wasn't sure I believed you when you said they wanted to dismantle it, but I looked it up, and sure as shit, they do. They have PDFs of each chapter on their website that you can download to read it. Jfc smh
Every. Single. Department. Dismantled. ✔️
I think that's part of it, but I think there's weird historical stuff washing around there too. **Example**: The US has always been super soft on Irish Republican terror. Huge part of the funding of it for basically all of its history. UK definitely bad, in the same way 'US bad'. The IRA had fairly deep ties with the PLO. US St Patrick's Day cash turns into Soviet made weapons, with spaces to train. ['One Struggle' ](https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/s/VsvaUcWHMq) is still seen. Glasgow Celtic supporters still [chant for Palestine](https://youtu.be/qf58hbLP7jU?si=P2IC0w9E5C-TjIMf). If the UK and US are perceived as being on Israel's side then whoever they are against has to be the 'good guys'. Chuck in some leftover Soviet propaganda that still resonates, and is supported by the new Russia. There you are: *Queers for Palestine.*
Anyone that’s an older millennial and up remembers 9/11. This seems to be a zoomer thing. You’re right about one thing, I don’t feel they’re done with attacks coming from inside the country. Earlier this month the FBI arrested 8 men that have ties to ISIS. This was in NY, Philly and LA. They got into the country by sneaking across the Mexican border, hoping to get lost in a sea of Latino immigrants.
I'd say that it's more a matter of western society not putting up with that shit from the god-botherers any longer. Look at that rapist-supporting trash on the American right and tell me that they wouldn't go just as far if they could.
Probably because the USA is aware of its own racism, say Muslim and I imagine a brown person. A lot of American politics is organized around fighting over what is and what is not racist. Look at the top five arguments in any political issue you care for, race will be in there and probably in the first three brought up. Talk about inflation? I’ll be asked about what groups will be hurt and skin comes up. Education? How funding practices leave black students with less money per child. The roads? Black communities that got paved over, and how black businesses were demolished to build our highways. There is not a subject in the USA that race will not be brought up. Muslims are assumed to not be white and that activates rally points.
I don't think love is the correct worth rather, they seem afraid/unwilling to criticize them for fear of being labeled xenophobic/islamophobic.
Which enables it. It’s one and the same. I don’t dislike middle easterners or Arabs at all, but I sure as hell will hate a religion that hates me. But yes I agree. Progressives need to stop this black and white perfectly harmonic nonsense. The world isn't perfect.
I've heard times and times again from the mouth of (non-religious) progressives that Islam is "a religion of peace". And in the same breath, violently criticise Christianity. It's much more than just refusing to criticise it, it's actively enabling and defending it. Here in France, radical secularism is basically dead. Anti-clericalism towards Christianity is still lingering a bit, but that's about it.
But they are also the ones who would label others xenophobic/islamophobic. Not all of them, of course, but quite vocal part.
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I hate both equally.
The EU countries are in the “find out” phase of that one - France, Sweden…
They were all paranoid, saying that Obama was going to enact Sharia Law, and here they are attempting to do the very same thing.
That’s why they love them. It’s actually how they want society to be but under their god not the god of Islam even though it’s literally the same god.
Ask them which sect of Christianity will rule the US when we became a “Christian Nation “? Catholics, Evangelicals, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, Mormons, etc?
Liberals: "Nobody should be persecuted." Conservatives: "But we should persecute Muslims, right?" Liberals: "Nah, man. Don't persecute anybody." Conservatives: "Take away their rights? Deport them?" Liberals: "They get the same rights as anyone else. Don't persecute-" Conservatives: "See! They love Islam!"
I don’t think that’s correct. All that happened is that in the west humanitarian values took a hold, and Christian institutions decided to play along as they couldn’t stem tide. Given a chance, they’ll revert ASAP to the exact same standards. See the ongoing Christian right push for power in the US. Now the majority of Islam countries haven’t developed this shift, but I don’t think this is due to the religion as such. Countries like the UAE and SA only are on our radar because they are filthy rich, so they appear on our radar as let’s say hosts of a football world championship, where that clashes with the progressive LGBTQ-values the FIFA otherwise spouts. And immigrants form these countries are (in general) more conservative. So, yes: if at the current state of the world randomly sample from the population, chances for a conservative, misogynist etc world view are highly correlated with Islam. But again I don’t think this is baked into the religion. As religions are amazing at adapting to the surrounding societal movements.
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In the old days, the Catholics would burn him at the stake as heretic
Been a while, sorta solved that in 1688. Think Jimmy will be ok.
That's true, but it's not the old days anymore so
Oh yea I don't understand those muslim suicide bombers, dying in horrible pain only for a chance to have 72 virgins in heaven Just be a catholic priest and have them now
72 virgin women, not virgin boys. That's the difference.
Loved this joke…
Jimmy Carr is a profane treasure.
My Trinity is Jimmy Carr, Milton Jones, and Anthony Jeselnick. Jones is brilliant and his delivery flawless—thank gawd he never includes his Catholicism in his act.
Rabbit holes! Thank you very much!
Objective for Project 2025: Buy or prosecute Reddit and identify all users, and specifically identify the real identities of users in r/atheism as a first step.
Islam "gets a pass" on some things because people are literally afraid of it. An example is showing drawings of the prophet Muhammad. People end up dying when that happens. So it's the third rail nobody dares touch. Rushdie wrote a fiction novel in the 80's Islam didn't like and they called for his death. He's been attacked, maimed and nearly killed. In a sense that's a "pass."
Not just the author, but a bunch of people like translators and publishers as well: >Hitoshi Igarashi, Rushdie's Japanese translator, was found by a cleaning lady, stabbed to death in his office at the University of Tsukuba on 13 July 1991. Ten days prior to Igarashi's killing, Rushdie's Italian translator Ettore Capriolo was seriously injured by an attacker at his home in Milan by being stabbed multiple times on 3 July 1991.[23] William Nygaard, the Norwegian publisher of The Satanic Verses, was critically injured by being shot three times in the back by an assailant on 11 October 1993 in Oslo. Nygaard survived, but spent months in the hospital recovering. The book's Turkish translator Aziz Nesin was the intended target of a mob of arsonists who set fire to the Madimak Hotel after Friday prayers on 2 July 1993 in Sivas, Turkey, killing 37 people, mostly Alevi scholars, poets and musicians. Nesin escaped death when the fundamentalist mob failed to recognize him early in the attack. Known as the Sivas massacre, it is remembered by Alevi Turks who gather in Sivas annually and hold silent marches, commemorations and vigils for the slain.[24] > >In March 2016, the bounty for the Rushdie fatwa was raised by $600,000 (£430,000). Top Iranian media contributed this sum, adding to the existing $2.8 million already offered.[25] In response, the Swedish Academy, which awards the Nobel Prize in Literature, denounced the death sentence and called it "a serious violation of free speech". This was the first time it had commented on the issue since the book's publication.[26] > >On 12 August 2022, Rushdie was attacked onstage while speaking at an event of the Chautauqua Institution. Rushdie suffered four stab wounds to the stomach area of his abdomen, three wounds to the right side of the front part of his neck, one wound to his right eye, one wound to his chest and one wound to his right thigh.[27] He was flown by helicopter to UPMC Hamot, a tertiary-level hospital in Erie, Pennsylvania.[28] The attacker, Hadi Matar, was immediately taken into custody.[29] He was charged with attempted murder and assault, pleading not guilty, and was remanded in custody.[30] By 14 August, Rushdie was off the ventilator and able to talk.[31] Rushdie's agent Andrew Wylie reported on 23 October that Rushdie had lost sight in one eye and the use of one hand. Or look at Molly Norris, who had to give up her identity and go into hiding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Draw_Mohammed_Day
Great additional detail! I was just trying to keep my point brief. But that's very interesting additional detail.
So, they exist all over the world now...even in Japan
What a lot of time and trouble to go through to get one guy. Also, I’m surprised they were able to get to Igarashi in Japan. There’s so many tales of xenophobia surrounding Japan that I would’ve thought they were being watched closely.
And Christianity gets to regularly scream at people and issue death threats for saying happy holidays or supporting trans kids.
I understand your point. But to be clear, few people (speaking of North America and Europe primarily) feel much fear about calling out Christianity for its shortcomings, intolerance, or ridiculousness. Speaking of those inclined to do so, of course. Think of the many thousands of metal songs attacking Christianity, often in the strongest and most insulting terms possible. There are hardly any worrisome repercussions for this. When I say "repercusions" I mean real valid fear of physical harm, instead of fear or ostracism, argument, rudeness, etc. For example, make a YouTube about saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." Then make a video showing a humourous or insulting drawing of Muhammed. See which one gets you more flak. In reality, YouTube would probably remove the one drawing Muhammed and leave the one about "Happy Holidays."
OK... it's almost like we also have lots of threads where we all criticize christianity...
Because most people in this subreddit are American and Christianity is the main religion that people actually have experience with or against
And plenty that criticize Islam, but it’s not writing laws in the countries most of us live in, so bluntly, they tend to be a non issue
This, we're not drowning in *those* assholes at the moment.
No, and frankly, the main reason people bring up the bad things that happen in Islamic countries is for the express purpose of giving Christianity and Judaism a pass on their bullshit behavior, from trying to force religion into schools to engaging in full on genocide. The Abrahamic religions are like that spiderman meme where they are all pointing at each other. They are just different flavors of the same shit.
>No, and frankly, the main reason people bring up the bad things that happen in Islamic countries is for the express purpose of giving Christianity and Judaism a pass on their bullshit behavior, from trying to force religion into schools to engaging in full on genocide. No that is not the main reason. Are there people that do that? Yes, and that is shitty and hypocritical of them. But that is not the main reason. Frankly to paint it as the main reason is one of the more common ways/arguments people in the west use to give Islam a pass. The main reason is what you said in the second part of your comment. The Abrahamic religions are different flavors of the same shit and that is why people bring up bad things that happen in countries that are dominated by a particular one. There's no need to excuse any of them. Problem is a lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea that all three religions are equally shitty.
They are all shitty. It’s nice that Jews don’t threaten me with burning forever. One less thing to worry about. Though there’s still the rape, slavery, genocide, infanticide and pedophillia. Oh and the genital mutilation and misogyny… no doubt a plethora of more crap.
Have you ever heard someone criticizing Islam then getting called racist even though Islam is not a race, but a Abrahamic religion like Christianity or Judaism?(Judaism is a little different, but still)There’s your answer. Now, I say this as a black man if most Muslims were white/descendants of white Europeans, there would not nearly be as much of a pass. I won’t lie. I always kind of found it funny when people criticize Christianity for XYZ beliefs, but then are completely silent on Islam who have the exact *same* beliefs, but triple down on them. Or even have some beliefs that Christianity even thinks is extreme in it’s conservativeness.
It is not that Islam gets a pass. It is because mostly, in America, few people have to interact with idiotic Muslims. But we have the moron Christians in our faces all the time. Many people have family members that have drank the fundy kool aid. Or have to work with Christian idiots. Or have to live in states where the ruling politicians are right winged Christians trying to establish theocracy on us all.
That explains why people are more aware of and able to criticize/articulate the problems with Christianity, but it doesn't explain the reluctance of some people to acknowledge the parallels between Islam and Christianity. Especially in the face of evidence of not just ideological similarity, but actual real-world efforts to implement the exact sort of regressive policies they are against. Like sure what you said could explain the mindset of conservatives who are content with just living within a narrow worldview. But many of the people unwilling to acknowledge how Islam is more similar to Christianity than not are progressive and/or supposedly value having a more culturally-sensitive and diverse understanding of the world. So in that sense it kinda still is getting a pass.
"Why does religion get a free pass?" It's one of the perks of signing up to the religion. You get excused from things you don't want to do, like the ultra Orthodox in Israel, they never had to serve in the army. Getting coddled because they go into magic buildings sometimes, is what they expect. Its a shock to them when someone says "I don't care where you go or what's going on in your head"
You don’t get it, they mean why does society say “this religion is bad because they say bigoted thing”, but they want another religion said the exact same thing it’s “well that’s just what they believe”. Why do both religious not get treated equal?
Well, that was the title, I was going by “Why does religion get a free pass? I truly don't belive there is a god, or anything along those lines. And when I say this I'm called an asshole for saying that i genuinely do not believe it and that i hate the idea. I just want someone to explain to me why religion gets free passss”
Usually it’s because one religion has more political power. So like Christianity gets a free pass in America when they pass laws mandating that classrooms display the Ten Commandments, whereas other religious groups couldn’t dream of getting that far. But in other countries the dynamic is reversed
I couldn't believe my eyes when i read recently that the ultra-orthodox in Israel claim to help the war effort by studying the Torah.
They see us Seculars and Atheists (and Muslims, Christians etc....) in Israel as lesser, obviously they'll think their 'work' is somehow superior They live off our taxes so they can read some fiction book all day, and they don't even do THAT! So many videos of them partying like crazy. To summarise, they're leeches.
That army-service exemption just changed, this week.
Exactly! Their goldbricking days for no reason are over.
Yea so about that… 😂 https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+orthodox+conscription&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS1041US1041&oq=israel+orthodox+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCDQ4NjJqMGo3qAIZsAIB4gMEGAIgXw&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Religion ( especially Islam ) is the worst form of oppression that's overlooked.
Religion is nonsense. Religion is poison. Religion has held back progress and sanity long enough.
I don't give them a free pass
No religion should get a pass for bigotry.
> Why does religion get a free pass? I would argue that it doesn't. For those that would give it a free pass, that's likely due to some misplaced sense of social propriety, but you don't have to give anybody a free pass if you don't want to. Somebody who used such an argument with me would be met with a "Then that's a shitty religion".
Because the narrative is that brown people are oppressed and white people are the oppressors. If a white Christian had issued whatever the Christian equivalent of a fatwa is on a gay rights author forcing him/her into hiding only to be stabbed when they emerge there would have been wall to wall front page coverage at NYT NPR et al.
Only brown muslims are oppressed, there isn’t another religion that is given the free pass
Some religions (Islam) get a free pass because they've been labeled "people of color" and therefore can do no wrong. Criticizing muslims, even when they parachute into concerts to rape and murder, is considered "punching down." Thus they get a free pass for racism, homophobia, you name it. Only white men are fair targets for criticism, and that limits criticism to christianity.
Linking the critical evaluation of ideologies to race and racism is the dumbest thing ever to gain traction in the last few decades, and we live in the era of Tiktok, pandemic denialism and Trump. My family haven't been christians for almost a century so as an atheist white man I'm going to criticize any ideology I please and not feel bad about it.
Basically, some muslims have co-opted left leaning language and parts of the left to try to use it to protect their religion. It also doesn't help that right-wingers ***genuinely do*** use "muslim" as a stand in for "brown person" frequently. So, in any given conversation in which someone is "criticizing Islam" against a muslim, it is impossible to tell at first glance whether it is someone actually criticizing Islam and the muslim using stupid buzzword spam to try to shield their religion or just a right-winger being racist and the muslim rightfully calling them out.
That makes it even more difficult for ex-muslims, who get discriminated from one side for their skin colour and other appearance-based characteristics; and discriminated, ostracised and sometimes even violently attacked \[specially in countries where that is part of the law\] because apostasy is anathema to the doctrine of their oppressor. And they are the ones that, in my opinion, we should be listening to more.
This is true... and I fucking hate how they use left wing language in a ridiculous way that forces me to end up sounding like my conservative family members when I refute it. But The reality is that if most muslims were white westerners, criticizing islam would be considered way more acceptable. And I hate that they make me say shit like that, but the truth is the truth. Likewise, I hate to give any support at all to christian's bullshit belief that they are somehow a persecuted majority in the US... but there is a clear double standard at times. If I say I don't want to move to the bible belt because of the regressive christianity, lots of liberals enthusiastically agree. If I say I don't want to move to deerborne michigan because there is too much islam, suddenly I'm a "bigot." I'm sick of this shit. A big part of why I don't like christianity (besides the basic premise of "let's recognize what is and isn't real) is that it's so often regressive. Likewise, I'm "islamaphobic" BECAUSE I'm socially liberal, not in spite of being socially liberal. It's regressive as fuck. Even on this subreddit (which has many posts criticizing a wide variety of religions), posts about islam always lead to a bunch of "ALL religions are bad!" style comments and whataboutism, because people are so afraid of the idea of being "islamaphobic." Then they act like the negatives of christianity are being ignored... even though the sub is full of posts about how bad christianity is??? "ALL religion are bad!!!" (in that context) is a similar tactic to "ALL lives matter!". It's a technically true statement about a broader subject, used to derail discussion of a more specific issue.
This comes back to something that the philosopher Slavoj Zizek has mentioned a couple of times. "Let us have our own enemies." A lot of oppressive structures and fake liberation ideologies take the form of "we are liberating/protecting you from an greater \[imaginary, of course\] evil by oppressing you" while the oppressor plays the victim against that "greater \[imaginary\] evil" that becomes the only valid target of criticism. Of course, this is not exclusive to religions, some conservative leaders like orban and trump do it while blaming "western decadence" for example. And its effectiveness is the main reason for the existence of the christian persecution complex and the propaganda of a certain phobia based buzzword. The real oppressor of the religious believer is the religious leader and his doctrine. They have their own enemies. That is why the voices of ex-muslims are the most oppressed of them all. The internal voices of reason that can identify that the real enemy is within are the ones that represent a real danger to the oppressor.
No where in the Bible, the Quran, our Dianetics does it say anything about transgenderism. They're making it up because humans are disgusting. Every religion needs to go.
>No where in the Bible, the Quran, our Dianetics does it say anything about transgenderism. That's a spot on point, but I'd have phrased it as "they don't say anything about trans people" rather than "they don't say anything about transgenderism"
Is this even true? Doesn’t the Bible have a line about wearing clothes of the opposite gender and how that’s a major sin or something
You're likely referring to Deuteronomy 22:5 ("A woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whosoever doeth these things is an abomination unto HaShem thy G-d.") which is part of the OT law that Christians don't have to follow. Christians don't avoid pork, avoid using electricity on the Sabbath, or avoid wearing blended fabrics, so to cherry pick this one to use against trans people when they disregard 90% of OT law is just transphobic. As for the Jewish interpretation of the same verse, here is a fantastic article (link: [https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/338982?lang=bi](https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/338982?lang=bi) ) that analyses every possible interpretation and concludes the only rational interpretation of the commandment is this: "**In silent prayer, no one may knowingly and intentionally refer to themself as the wrong gender, for concealing one's true self in silent prayer is an abomination to G-D**."
Never mind the fact that no religions even mention transgender in their texts.
Wrong. Hinduism exists and has multiple gender fluid characters in our mythology. Here's the Wikipedia link if you wanna read it. [Wikipedia Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology)
Thank you for sharing. I didn't know that
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Islam always gets a pass and it’s not right. It’s arguably the worst religion today and no one can say anything negative about Islam. Islam is a poisonous religion.
The difference between a cult and a religion is that a religion has the power and influence to demand respect institutionally, militarily, politically, financially, etc. Many people don't think critically enough about whether an ideology/creed actually deserves respect, they only see the consequences they face for not giving it respect automatically.
Religion gets a pass because it is a tool that powerful people use to control the masses.
Religion is and always has been a tool for control and oppression. That's a scandalous concept to the people on the other end of the stick. They get the cushy love and forgiveness side, we get the "attempt to persecute out of existence" side. So they could never understand why we don't have the same view on their religion as they do. In the case of Christianity especially, it's shocking how a religion that touts empathy actually cultivates a lack of it. (Speaking mostly about Christianity personally, just because it's the religion I've got the most experience with, but the broad concept applies)
No religion gets a free pass from me. They're all ignorant superstitious nonsense that's dangerous to the entire human race.
They don’t, not from me
Me neither.
More and more people are calling out religion for their bigoted views and beliefs. People should keep doing this.
Anybody telling me it's against their religion to be trans is getting told their religion is an asshole too.
It's the proselytizing that people hate. They will tolerate religion as long as it' not in their face.
I feel like Islam gets a huge free pass. God forbid you talk about how fucking hateful, misogynistic, homophobic Islam is. You get called an Islamophobic, racist etc. Has nothing to do with race. Islam is a hateful religion. Just like Christianity.
Hey im trans too and 9/10 times someone has told me that it’s “against their religion” and someone agrees with them. It’s because that person is also a bigot but either is to afraid to be open about it to my face, or thinks that denying my identity and existence “isn’t hateful its just a different opinion”
You are forgetting one other thing. Someone believing they will go to hell or not go to heaven or whatever that life after death thing they imagine is, they will do you harm in life for the fear of losing something they will not even know doesn't exist after they die.
Well, that’s pretty much the result of the fact that certain religions and cultures have been seen as subhuman for a long period of time in the West. No one should get a pass, I agree. Well, some still believe that instead of combating actual racism, best way to do that is to tolerate horrible parts of certain cultures and religions.
This is your answer, OP. To openly criticize religion is relatively new compared to the age of these religions. Think of medieval christianity for example, think of how powerful the clergy was and seen as the embodiment of sense and judgment, how the bible was the answer to everything before science broke through, how the vast majority of people was not educated, had no access to information and was too busy with staying alive than thinking about stuff like this, how the bible wasn’t even accessible to most because it was in Latin and they had to rely what they were told. They get a free pass because people are used to giving it a free pass and it takes ages for something so powerfully webbed into culture to dissolve. I think the process has only really started recently.
Because by and large, they serve to reinforce prevailing power structures and the prevailing social hierarchy.
Tell them they are a bigger Ass hole for believing you don’t exist.
Political privilege. Religious fundamentalism always aligns itself with sheep herding authoritarians who love people of blind faith). Mix the 2 together, and you have one major party in America running on lies, corruption, greed, and belief in absolute power , which always corrupts absolutely.
If it’s against your religion, don’t do it, keep your mouth shut, and mind your own business. Should be simple.
One religion gets to own all a region’s hospitals and dictate care based on their religion views. Frankly, no other religion’s ‘free pass’ would come close. There would be riots in the streets if a mosque controlled a hospital and convened a group of their faith leaders to approve healthcare
When people say "thats against my religion", I like to reply "So? Why should people who arent your religion have to follow its rules?"
Since their beliefs aren't based on evidence and demonstrations they have to respond to backlashes with emotion and people don't bother with it. Years later it's seen as "untouchable" when it's people's rights to believe and not their beliefs that shouldn't be attacked.
>I've called out transphobia many times online, and a frequent response is 'it's against their religion' I am strongly of the opinion that one's deeply held religious beliefs are no excuse for inimical actions and opinions. I'll judge you (not OP, just people in general) on the morality of your actions and opinions and I do not give you a pass just because those actions are based on religious belief. If you choose a belief system that requires you to hold unethical positions, that is still a mark against you for choosing that belief system.
Religion gets no free passes in my book. If it’s against THEIR religion then THEY shouldn’t be transgender. It’s THEIR religion & has nothing to do with anyone else (YOU, ME & everyone) who doesn’t practice it. It’s just like any other religious prohibition: what foods you can’t eat, clothes you can’t wear, shit you can’t say… It’s all bullshit. Same thing goes for who say “I just don’t understand “transgender-ism”. 🙄”Why can’t ‘they’ just blah blah blah blah?” There’s no requirement to UNDERSTAND being transgender. It’s often very complicated. It’s not up to you to understand it or even like it or agree with what a transgender person thinks. You just have to accept the fact that transgender people are human beings too, ones who deserve to be treated as decently & fairly as any other person.
Ironically it’s actually not against their religion. Abrahamic religions have nothing official to say about being transgender. Christianity gets a pass because it’s so popular in western regions. Islam gets a free pass because breeds extremism and people don’t want to get killed for calling it out. Judaism gets a pass because it’s not common in most places anymore and most christian’s do not understand it very well beyond it being almost an “ancestor” to them.
Completely depends on who is giving or withholding the "free pass".
Better PR. Leveraging "Never forget" past atrocities and victim imagery, while conveniently leaving out the many times in history they were the aggressors/oppressors/conquerers.
You have to remember these semi evolved hairless monkeys don't work well with logic The way things were are the way things are supposed to be in their delusion A lot of those of people where I'm from harken back to the 1950's was the best time in america to be alive, a time when racism was so high in public people were segregated by the color of their skin and women were house slaves high on pharmaceutical pills to keep from boredom Trying to use a logical standpoint with them doesn't work, they don't think that way, they have been brainwashed and socially conditioned to think that a man in the sky determines their thoughts and the whole earth They would have to break all that mental fuckery to see clearly Which would prob make them go psychotic
if being a cunt bigot is part of someone's religion, thats all the more reason to openly mock it.
My response is usually that atheism is only a position on the existence or non-existence of a deity... that's it...
Why should you get a free pass? You can say that you don't believe in God, they can say that they don't believe in people changing their genders. It cuts both ways.
It doesn’t for me. I wish people could see the harm that comes from religion.
Short answer: might makes right
As an agnostic, I don't really believe it does. I think it's a social issue, and society always seems to be inclusive to everyone but...you!(not you specifically) It's rather annoying, and will stay that way until everyone decides the live and let live pathway is the best for us all, but we have to practice it, not preach it.
There is no religion that has transphobia in their holy book. That’s a person using religion as an excuse to be hateful. Transphobia should not be tolerated anywhere. Shut that sh!t down. I even met a transphobic atheist, which baffles me. We argued about whether trans women should be in women’s sports. 🤬 Ugh. She really didn’t have an argument why they should be excluded. I was disappointed when Ricky Gervais started with the transphobia too. Most atheists seem to be allies.
Religion is just organized superstition and hate. But humans are illogical and unintelligent animals who have been brainwashed to follow their superstitions for thousands of years so it's very difficult to convince them to stop. And the people who run the government find it convenient for distracting the masses.
TBH, I think trans-people make a lot of mainstream people uncomfortable. They just hide behind religion as the reason for their feelings rather than being honest about it. It’s their way of “passing the buck”. Like, “I’m okay, but Jesus said it was a sin, and I trust Jesus.” (And, course, Jesus and/or the Bible never mention trans-people directly)
I’ve gotten in a number of arguments **right here with other atheists** who will defend Islam, particularly with the current situation in Gaza. It’s a horrible religion invented by a schizophrenic pedophile, and only serves to make the world a worse place. The thing is, the liberal left (and I say this as a liberal leftist) wants to protect non-European groups. It’s not a bad thing at all, noble even, to be against neocolonialism and the destruction of indigenous culture. But when that culture is set on violence and repression, it shouldn’t be defended.
Because they all are God complex control freaks, who love to spit out hypocrisy.
Define "free pass".
Because some of them are religions and others are control systems that need to be changed or discarded Absolutely no prizes for guessing which ones.
Because there is power in fear
What’s the majority in that area?
It's called Money
When someone says that ask them to show you the relevant passages in their particular religions scriptures. You will likely not find any. Don’t let them blame their religion for something that is solidly on them.
I'm sorry you get shit on by people "claiming" to be religious. I'm not an atheist, and while being trans isn't for me, or something I can understand (because it's not my lived experience) I am in no place to tell you what to do. There are assholes in every group and every religion, even amongst atheists. I wish the one thing we could agree on is to just leave each other alone.
It's because of how integrated they are into culture.
People will pattern cherry pick the parts of religion they want to follow. Often forget the respect
Seems like you're thinking of particular religions, perhaps you can be more specific
You want to start regulating religions now?
‘Absolutely no prize for guessing which ones’ We’re not here to play trivia. Provide the information that people need to answer your question.
No religions should get a pass. They never reciprocate the gesture so follow suit. The time for religion to die has long passed. That kind of wish-think has had more than enough time to demonstrate its deficiency in progressive coexistence and show its true nature as a potential for harm.
Culture also gets a free pass. The amount of times I see people defending horrendous cultural traditions because 'it's their culture' is insane. As religion is also tradition and culture I think it falls in the same category.
Just like religious affiliation in the first place, I think it depends on where you are. Christianity typically gets a free pass in the US, Islam is largely seen negatively. I'd imagine it's at least to some extent the opposite in India. I've always wondered why this fact alone seemingly isn't enough to alert people to the fact that something isn't quite right with religion, but comfort is just that powerful I guess.
Because they don't love equally like they preach
Because some people have decided to define themselves by being morally righteous, rather than critical thinkers. So where the rights of one minority or oft-victimised group overlaps another, it becomes a bit of a crap shoot which one floats to the surface, rather than applying the same critical thinking and empathy equally across the board as one might hope.
It doesn't get a pass. It just doesn't get said enough. There are far more of them than there are of us which is what makes it hard.
Because religious people form overwhelming majority of the human population and most of them belong to only 4 religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism). Most of the time it's someone from these religions that spouts hatred publicly and since they are a majority in their respective countries the accountability for their actions is naturally low because the perpetrators are backed up religious institutions that are closely tied up with the government.
It's not so much of a pass as it is a reprieve. Some religions are less of a threat. But being in the bottom of the list is still being on my list.
Odd how it almost entirely depends on public opinion of said religion in the immediate environs. The religious will defend their parasitic brain disease because that's what the disease demands of them.
indoctrination
I'm not sure, but probably to "respect" those "people". I don't even know why the Universial Declaration of Human Rights has the freedom of religion, (opinion) I think that is stupid and should be removed. I'm not condoning hate of others, it's just that religious ideas are extreme.
Religion only gets a free pass if no one speaks up. Ridicule and berating others is just a bully response and ghosting others is something religions are good at that. Humility is not what they practice even if their prophet or savior teaches it. Speak up. Call out the differences as valid because even religions or denominations can not agree with each other. And I will ask a religious zealot does your god tell you hate is good? Assuming they aren't lunatics they will say no and I say neither do I. You believe that for your reasons and I believe that for mine. How you treat others is more important than your denominational belief/theology. Engaging in the question is there a god or not will only take you down a rabbit hole of illogic. You don't need to prove that god exists or not. Maybe that might work when dealing with religious zealots.
Hitchens describes it quite well, "In our societies it poses as a cringing minority, whose faith you might offend, which deserves all the protections that a small and vulnerable group might need."
Most religions don’t. I pretty vocally critique as many religions as possible, at least among my peers (within limits). Some religions do because they are strongly correlated with oppressed classes in the US, like black and brown people, and others get the pass because most people aren’t educated on them.
Transphobia isn’t very Christ-like.
I think it gets a free pass largely because religious belief has historically been so widespread. At least, I think that's part of the reason. It's been around for so long and has so dominated human culture that it's become very taboo to openly criticise it. Even if you go back 30 or 40 years, being an open critic of religion often suggested you might be some sort of anarchist or troublemaker - it's a bit like criticising the nuclear family back in the 50s. I'm sure there's much more to it, but I think religion's widespread stranglehold on culture and society has played a big role in making it impossible to criticise safely for much of history.
It doesn’t. Any view that condemns people for existing sucks, whether or not it’s based in some historical or cultural context.
quite simply, you are questioning the thing they have become comfortable with that makes them feel like they are set for life. You are challenging the belief system they have decided is truth and therefore the only response they can muster is to blame you for THIER discomfort.
Because it offers people something they NEED to believe is true. The mental gymnastics they resort to in order to explain their beliefs is quite the show. They don't do this to many other subjects because the cost is not as high. Religion also gets a pass because some people are not willing to criticize it because they don't want to be labelled as "intolerant."
They feel that they can "hate the sin but not the sinner," and think they have a pass because they're not condeming you, they're condemning your way of life. An argument that strangely falls apart when you apply the same to them, and explain you should have a pass too, because you don't hate them, you hate their religion. (I'm being sarcastic, my point is, they have a stupid justification that doesn't work. You can't condemn someone's way of life or value system while somehow disentangling them from it).
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here, but let's be honest. In America Christians unfortunately dominate the public sphere, and instead of just worshipping in their homes and churches they want to push their bullshit on everyone. If you run into a Buddhist or a member of the Baha'i Faith they are unlikely to push their agenda in person, or in the political sphere. No one cares because for the most part they worship peacefully.
Srsly, friend, you need to check out Unitarian Universalism. In our congregation, a majority of our paid staff is Queer, we had a Trans music director (the next one was a Gay man who could sing like nobody I've ever heard), and Unitarians are basically mostly Atheists that figured out there are some awesome and inspiring things to talk about that don't involve invisible imaginary beings, and that community is fulfilling. You'd be included and welcomed for who you are. Challenged to grow into who you are becoming.
It seems to me that there's a lot of religious people here who like to dogpile on the religions they oppose while white-knighting their own. Bigots see other people's atheism as cover for their own hate.
As an atheist I feel safer in western Christian countries than I would in Islamic ones.
“Your religion is against me, so fuck your religion, fuck your god, your heaven, your beliefs, your sins, and your opinions. Fuck you. “ that should just about cover an adequate response
I still think Ramana Maharshi was right when he said all world religions point to the same truth. Most religions you have to focus on what the sages talk about and not the common peddlers who aren’t focusing their adherents on realizing it and instead keep them going in the body/world fallacy.
Simple fixes here: 1) Don't call shit out online. These are places where people will disagree with you just for the sake of doing so. You can't stop them, all you can do is stop yourself. It's hard though, I get it, fucking with idiots on reddit is fun. 2) Assuming you're talking about a religion that involves Adam and Eve, trans should be celebrated, as God was the first to help someone transition. God made Adam in his image, simple enough. Adam got horny, so God took his rib to make Eve. That would make Eve a clone, and therefore a man. Adam needed a woman, not a man, so God changed the clone from Adam 2 to Eve. Eve is trans. Just for fun, the fucked up part comes later. Adam and Eve were the only 2 people created by God. OK cool. Adam and Eve made babies, as married couples do, cool. Cain and Abel, 2 boys. Now there's 3 guys and 1 woman on earth? Mother fucker has different meaning in the church. Also, technically, that means that generation 2 and generation 3 of the human species, and therefore all humanity, wouldn't exist if a trans person didn't get laid.