I'll do it on one condition: they must refer to me as one of my honorifics. They can take their pick from Coach, Sensei, Kru, or Professeur, but unless I hear one of those titles, I won't be responding.
If they can't honor that, neither will I.
I'm right there with you. I've worked in church professions and in the medical field. When I'm in charge I let everyone know; either we ALL go by first name or we ALL go by title/last name. Too often honorifics aren't about honor. They're about power. The person in the room with the "Fr." or "Dr." exerts more influence and is more often deferred to. That's not how I do business.
I dont honor the titles of clergy because i dont recognize any authority they pretend to have. I take kings at ren-faires more seriously than any priest, minister, or reverend.
Not a Ph.D., but it is an actual doctorate. D.C.— Doctor of Chiropractic. I worked with one once. A teacher who was making top of the pay scale for having a doctorate. Nevermind that he was an English teacher.
Edit: fixed an autocowreck where pay scale somehow turned into pancake.
> but it is an actual doctorate. D.C.— Doctor of Chiropractic.
That's just what they call it. It is NOT a medical degree. They do not go through the usual medical phases of education like internship and residency. It is just a "certificate" they can get that their own industry has made up without any government regulations on what it means.
I went to a chiropractor for a while and my symptoms got worse. I went on to be an EMT and I would never go to a chiropractor again knowing what I know now about medicine, biology, and kinematics.
Not simping for chiropractics here, because it's mostly total bunk, HOWEVER I think it's worth noting that Optometrists and Physical Therapists also follow similar paths to accreditation, i.e. they're not MDs.
The difference here is that the fields of optometry and physical therapy are evidence-based and backed by data showing their value to the overall health of their patients. Chiropractics cannot make that claim.
An optometrist is 100% a doctor, just with a very, very narrow specialization. The optometrist I worked for caught undiagnosed diabetes many, many times for instance. They can perform emergency eye procedures as well (up to a point). Opthalmologists even more so.
Sure, that's your prerogative. I know a few and they probably wouldn't ask to be called "doctor," either. That doesn't change the fact that while they are not medical doctors, they _are_ doctors.
> they are doctors.
Well, no. But they do work in the medical profession. Like nurses, EMTs, and many many others. But they are not doctors and are not bound by the AMA rules for doctors. They have their own professional boards and rules.
lol... you will never hear me call a chiropractor “doctor”. Nor will I use the word "doctor" for someone who has a Ph.D but not an M.D. I reserve that word only for MEDICAL doctors.
It depends on how well I know them. If I had gone to high school with them, or they were my cousin or a family friend my age or younger and I had known them way before they were a priest, then no - I would call them by their first name. If they were a friend of my parents, or I had only met them after they were already a priest, then yes, I would. But, I was raised catholic & went to catholic school, so those old habits are very ingrained and it would feel very weird not to do it.
I have a friend from high school who became a Franciscan friar. His name isn’t the same anymore. I call him by his chosen name with his honorific same as I would anyone else.
Same here and I guess I never thought much about it since like other titles they do go to school for it. I would be kind of annoyed if I was a Doctor but someone who doesn’t believe in the type of medicine I practice doesn’t respect me enough to use my proper title. Even if you do not agree or respect the title, it is good manners.
I think I'm kind of a bitch, but probably not unless I'm in "their house" - meaning they are functioning in the capacity of their job. If I show up for mass and and Friar Tuck is running the show, then I'll call him Friar Tuck. If there is a charity being run by Father Mulcahy, then that is the title I'll go with.
But out in the wild? "Hey man, good to see you. What name do you go by out here?" If I get the title, I tell them to have a good day and get back to mine.
Family friend? First names or I don't connect. If we are not meeting on that level, we are not meeting. I've got other family to chat with.
Religious titles like that are just that: titles. They function in a professional capacity. I'm not interested in really connecting with anyone with a religious function. I love to connect with people with genuine warmth and appreciation for one another, but that identity needs to feel genuine to me. And religious identities, in general, just have no purpose or use or value for me at all. Coming at me with a title has absolutely no effect and if there is some kind of insistence or demands for me to use it (outside of a professional capacity), I instantly take the person to just not be sincere.
It's one reason I cannot help but chuckle when two 19 year old's come up to me and say they are "Elder So and So". The only people who take that seriously are other 19 year olds and teens looking up to them.
I like this response, and I do not think you are a bitch at all. Makes sense. We really should all make at least the initial effort to respect each other, especially over shit like this - far bigger issues in the world - but, as you indicated, once they initiate pomposity or similar such nonsense - then all bet are off. I wouldn't associate with anyone like that anyway. LOL
When I worked at a doctors office we had the local priest(s) and nuns come to our office for care. To call them in when it was their turn I would use Father so and so and Sister so and so. It was a professional setting so there was a push to use it, but also, it didn't bother me either.
That’s called giving yourself an easy life. I would totally be like that too if I was in that position. Outside of that they get called whatever their name is.
My great uncle was a Catholic priest and great great aunt was a nun. We always called them by their first name like other aunts and uncles. But I suppose in context of their "job", I might use their formal title, just like if your family member was a teacher or principal at school you might not use their first name at school.
If you are going to die on this hill, take this:
"And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven" -- Matthew 23:9 (ESV)
I work for a Catholic parish as a sound tech, but am an atheist. So, as a professional, at work, those who've earned honorifics get them. Every priest is "Father". Same way as if I were working a medical convention each person with a doctorate would get a "Doctor". Or any other random gig you might refer to someone as "Sir".
Interestingly, the priests I've gotten to know (and like) are the ones to get first name only. More a sign of familiarity given our relationships are of a professional nature.
Depends on how well I know them/if they are related to me. I see no reason to refer to an old friend or family member by a religious title. But I'll use the preferred pronoun of an acquaintance (though I have no problem telling them that is what I'm doing).
What I'm saying is I'd compare their insistence on using a title with something I'm pretty sure they'd hate i.e. preferred pronouns. To show that unlike them I respect how others see themselves.
Imo you’ve only earned those honorifics in a professional setting. Outside of the hospital it’s Mr or Ms, not Dr. Using them in everyday situations is weird.
I would, just as I use officer for police, coach (self-explanatory), doctor, professor, etc. Titles like these do have requirements to be earned. I may not agree with religion, but I do respect the work taken to earn them. Unless a person is a total ahole, there is no need to not use a title.
You call those people by their titles when you're not meeting them in a professional capacity? I find that really weird.
I have a teammate who is a police sergeant. I call them by their name or nickname, never by their professional title. I also have many friends with PhDs and MDs who I also address by their first names or nicknames, and never as "doctor" anything. I call *my* doctor by their title, but not random other doctors who I'm not associating with in a professional context.
If I met a priest or nun in their church, or was working with them in a professional capacity, I'd refer to them by their professional title, but if a priest happened to be on my softball team, I'd just call him Dave.
There is a guy I knew before he became a priest. He isn't as old as my dad.
His name is Father Kurtis Gumvall. (fake name for privacy) Now, if anyone asked me, who is that guy? I'd say Father Kurtis Gumvall. Or even Reverend.
But he isn't my daddy, and I have no reason to have him in my life, but for me, the "Father" title is the same as "doctor" (he'snot a real father, and some doctors aren't real doctors lol) or "nurse" or Miss, or Mister.
The only place I can see the honorific being appropriate is in a church service setting. I don’t see a lot of circumstances where that would happen. Maybe at a friend’s funeral or wedding? That is the only time I would use it. Dinner at a restaurant? “Father Pete” becomes “Pete”.
No. I am not a Catholic. I would call that person Joe or Mr Smith or whatever was appropriate for the relationship.
> say there were a situation where honorifics were appropriate
What do you have in mind here ??
.
When I was a kid I was extremely active in the Boy Scouts (I’m actually an Eagle Scout). My scoutmaster, who’s basically the head adult, was in the seminary (priest school). For years we called him by his first name, then one day it was either Father or Father *lastname*. He had completed school and became a priest.
By this point in my life I was in high school and fully deconstructed from Catholicism. I was full Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. My new priest scoutmaster and I bumped heads a lot. I never admired I was an atheist outright but I wasn’t hiding my distaste for the church either.
I refused to call him father or any other derivative of it. And it chapped his ass so much. I used his first name for years and I was going to continue using his first name for the rest of my scouting career, which was maybe 2 more years (it ends when you turn 18).
To this day I still think he is the biggest POS, there’s much much more to the story but calling him by his first name was one of the few ways I could “get back” at him for all the nonsensical religious crap he forced on me and my fellow scouts.
Nope, not unless they were my actual father, and as my father passed 20+ years ago and was not the religious type, that’s a no.
I have no respect for any religious representative (or religions)
I'd call them father, but I'd look for ever so subtle ways to use that word in a slightly inconvenient way:
- Your glasses are on your head, father.
- Were we in band class together, father?
- As an atheist I hope you understand I don't believe in the Father, father.
That kind of thing. It might help explain where they get their "atheists are terrible" -shtick, but I'm afraid I can't help myself.
No chance. Use of a religious honorific is explicitly meant to be obedience to and recognition of an authority over you.
Only exception would be if they were doing something inappropriate. Then I'd say it quite loudly.
I will call anyone by any name or title they want. Doesn’t mean anything to me. By the same token, that goes for pronouns and gender changes. If a priest wants me to call him Father Flanagan, then Father Flanagan it is. If Steve wants to be Stephanie, then she’s Stephanie. What does it matter if I don’t agree with their choices or opinions? If I want to be treated with respect, I have to demonstrate respect. It’s just a small thing to do help everyone get along.
I don't associate with people like that, so never going to be an issue. If I were introducing a priest at an event or something though, absolutely not.
I subvert the entire question and simply refer to most people by monikers like "boss" or "friend".
It saves me the energy of having to try and remember titles or names and more likely than not I will never remember it anyway. So far as my faulty memory is concerned, names and titles are reserved solely for those who have earned my respect.
If push came to shove, I'll just be honest if I must and just tell the person I'm not calling them 'father'.
If I was introducing them to *another person*, sure. Not much different than if I was introducing my doctor friend, this is Doctor Jane Doe, this is Father John Doe.
Would I call them 'Father' myself during my own personal life outside of *any* circumstance where I am talking to them or referencing them to others in a *religious context*? Absolutely not, same as I wouldn't call Jane 'Doctor' in my own personal life outside of any circumstance where I am talking to them or referencing them to others in a *medical context.*
I follow 'call centre rules'. Your name is Bob Smith? Cool how ya doing Bob? Oh you wanna be called Doctor? Sorry I didn't know I was sick, should I come in to see you at your office? No, well Bob how can I help you with your bill today?"
I pretty much try to respect someone's PERSONAL preference for honorifics out of respect for that person. So in this case, I would honor it if the individual preferred it, and I have no reason to disrespect them.
I would call them what they want. It is like Doctor or Professor in that they have dedicated their life to it and presumably had to work and study to get the title. It's just a respectful way to treat another human. Same with Sister for nuns.
I may absolutely hate religion, but that doesn't give me a pass to be rude to people who don't.
If you're talking to a doctor in a professional setting, then sure, call them "doctor". If you are introduced to them at a neighbour's barbecue, that's an entirely different context, and it would be more normal to address them by their first name.
I'd apply the same logic to priests.
>I may absolutely hate religion, but that doesn't give me a pass to be rude to people who don't.
The problem is when foolish people claim the right to decide what is rude and what isn't.
If somebody had dedicated themself to Scientology and told you that you should call them **Grand Universal Master Swami** or something, you would have the right to say "Nah".
Same with any other religion.
My husband’s uncle was a catholic priest and his religious name was father Anthony so we called him father Tony. That was just always his family name and it wasn’t a big deal.
Depends. If we were acquaintances, I probably would use their name unless I noticed others referring to him as “father”. I’m generally happy to address people as they prefer, within reason. Words don’t always mean the same thing in different circumstances. Here “father” would be more like a title than a claim of relation. I know someone with a PhD, and she prefers to be called “Doctor Lastname”, rather than her first name. I consider this kind of silly, but I’m happy to oblige. She did earn the PhD after all.
If I know them personally and knew them from before? I'm calling them by their name. You may be Father Montoya, but if I grew up calling you Inigo.. then you are Inigo. Father is a title. I'm not part of your religion. I'm not addressing you by your title unless I'm in your church, infront of your congregation.
Given that the Catholic Church is currently an abominable, crooked, pedophile organization constantly fighting against abortion and LGBT rights, absolutely not. I don't care how awesome an individual priest is, their organization drags them down too far.
Doesn't bother me too much. It's better than the italian catholic versions: "Don" (short for dominus, "lord") for priests, "Monsignor" (my lord) for bishops), "Eminenza" (your eminence) for cardinals. Those can fuck right off.
I was raised Catholic and I would have a hard time not calling him "Father". That said, no, I wouldn't do it consciously unless there were extenuating circumstances. For instance, in a disaster or if he was injured, I would probably call him "Father" just for the familiar touchstone that could help keep him grounded. My dislike for the church is no reason not to be a decent human being.
I've been in this situation a few times and generally I call them "Sir". It's relatively neutral but provides enough respect not to pick a fight. Of course, used to know my local priest (when I lived near a cathedral) so I just called him Jim when I saw him. We don't get along but there's no animosity there either.
Worse for me is nuns. I absolutely, ABSOLUTELY, refuse to call a nun "sister". It has nothing to do with my lack of religious beliefs and everything to do with the fact that I find calling an 80 year old woman "sister" a horrible travesty. The misogyny of calling a priest "father" but a nun "sister" galls me so much that I can't do it. Nuns are always "Ma'am" and nothing else.
I find Nuns to be the most egregious institution left to modern Catholicism. Unlike Priests, who have historically abused their positions to accumulate wealth and power, broken virtually every oath made in the name of their God, and generally been awful, awful people, the vast majority of Nuns have no choice but to keep their vows. They live lives of Chastity, Poverty, and Obedience. Their reputation for being horrible old hags isn't wholly misplaced, but it comes from closisters being the only refuge of widowed women who refuse to remarry for whatever reason. Many women over the centuries joined the order because it was literally their only escape, only to find that there was very little escape involved.
If the situation to use their honorific is appropriate, I use it. I feel no need to intentionally go around antagonizing people for the sake of “proving” a point or being an asshole. Just like I use people’s preferred name or nickname, pronoun, and so on.
That being said, my father in law is a priest of a denomination that uses that honorific, and yet I have never been in a situation where the honorific was the appropriate way to address or speak about him.
12 years Catholic education here. I definitely would not. If he was a Monsignor … well I don’t know, but if I did i would feel like I was making fun of him.
I worked with a catholic priest who was an EMT with me and I called him a child molester every single day, multiple times a day, as a pet name. He laughed at it every time and even made jokes about young dudes. He was gay. Tbh, kind of a red flag all them lil boy jokes looking back.
If I was interacting with someone I didn't know, and I was introduced to them as Doctor/Judge/Father/Professor Smith, then I would use their honorific.
Equally, in that situation, I would introduce myself as Mr . If they decide we are going by honorifics, then we can all use them. Fair's fair.
My rule if thumb is --if they call me by my first name, I'll do likewise. If they call me Mr xxxxxxxx then I'll use their title be it Mr, Dr, Judge, Rev or Father.
I am not Catholic, but I have several Roman Catholic priests as relatives and friends. If we're having a private conversation, I address them by their name. Around other people, I always call them "Father" out of deference. If there were doctors in my circle, it would be the same. My father owned a store while I was a kid, and my older siblings and I worked for him. We were prohibited from calling him "Dad" at the store, as we had coworkers who were not related.
If I'm interacting with him in his capacity as a priest (say a Catholic friend wants to introduce me to him immediately after mass for some reason), I'd probably do it to be polite. If not, probably not.
Well it is their title. It is no different from calling someone Dr, Justice, Professor, General, Sir, Dame, Lord, Captain, Sargent, Congressman, or any other of the hundreds of official titles and styles.
In a formal situation I probably would. In a personal situation it depends. I mean if that’s how they are introduced I usually try to respect their preference.
Depends if I knew them before they were a priest or after.
I also feel like using their name like "Father John and I go WAAY back!" would be more comfortable than walking up to him and saying "Hello Father."
lol. My uncle is a priest, and we are very close. I call my uncle “uncle”. Even when he married me, even when he is saying a mass. There is no honorific between him and I. However if such a thing existed, I’d respect that. Not because of religion but out of respect for whatever “official” ceremony required such. Many professions have settings that require a level of formality. For example I’m in legal and when someone I know becomes a judge, I call them Judge or Your Honor, no longer their name, even if we were on first name basis prior to becoming a judge.
I've never met in person or seen on video any Catholic or Orthodox priest who seem like they would demand that from a non-believer. But I'm sure someone out there would! It's funny, because they claim that trans people are just making stuff up and say to them, "Just because you feel like a woman doesn't make you one!" Yet from an outsider's point of view, this is exactly what they are doing: pretending to be something they are not (a “Father” to people that he’s not, a man who can forgive sins, and who has a close relationship with an invisible, mute friend. If they can't tolerate it from the trans community, we shouldn't tolerate it from them, if for no other reason than to help them see their hypocrisy.
There's nothing wrong with being respectful to people. If a person wants to be called father, I would. Honestly, if their preferred title was monkey nuts, I would call them that. I don't see a problem with people wanting to be called something else.
If you want to be polite, it's a preferred honorific just like a preferred pronoun.
One way to get around it is to address him as "padre". Probably more Catholics around the world use that honorific anyway, and to you, it won't have the same connotation in your mind as "father." I'll bet it won't be the first time anyone has called him padre.
I live in the Southwest. I'll use "padre" kind of condescending if I ever chance upon one, maybe. Now growing up Mormon, I'm less likely to call someone "Bishop _____". I truly don't respect that title since they don't receive any religious, clergy training. I don't think I'd use anything else, either, for any other religious clergy, but I generally don't meet any.
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> If you had someone in your life who is a priest, would you call them “father” (in a situation it would be appropriate) or refuse to?
I'd refuse, just like I'd refuse an army or police captain or sergeant who demands a civilian to call him by his/her rank. I'm not in their church or army.
If I'm at a dinner party and they're hanging about, if I'm not on a first name basis with them, then I'm probably not talking to them.
If I'm having an extended conversation with someone outside of a professional context, I'm going with first names, because we are equal in this interaction.
I think if you are introducing someone, especially in a professional setting, honorifics are appropriate and expected. In less formal settings, it might be better to say "This is John Smith. He's the priest at St. Mary's on Main Street."
If they are relatives and you know them well, call them by their name. Not “Father”. Same with nuns. Unless you see them in their official capacity, such as the confessional.
If someone openly praises a god, holy book and religion which gives specific written *instructions* to murder gays, silence women and own people... Do they deserve respect?
What if I were to rape children, keep them quiet by threatening them with eternal torture, then systematically protect other pedophiles by reduce their punishments and restricting their victims' compensation...
Is that also worthy of respect?
They were both yes/no questions. Do they deserve respect, **yes or no**?
No one appointed me to avenge anything. No one is avenging anyone.
In what way is asking a question "worse than the religious?"
How am I giving atheists a bad reputation?
One more time for you to ignore; demonstrating your trolling:
They were both yes/no questions. Do they deserve respect, yes or no?
In what way is asking a question "worse than the religious?"
How am I giving atheists a bad reputation?
There is no situation where honorifics are appropriate so I'd just call him daddy.
This answer makes me happy.
I'm glad it's appreciated :D
You m-m-m-make me happeeeeyy!
And if daddy is doing something, but you feel that it needs to be harder, what would you say...?
c'mon you know ;)
Harder daddy!! ;)
Omfg I’m dying
There is this old joke. "It is a strange thing with Catholic priests, everyone calls them father, except their own children, they have to say Uncle."
I'll do it on one condition: they must refer to me as one of my honorifics. They can take their pick from Coach, Sensei, Kru, or Professeur, but unless I hear one of those titles, I won't be responding. If they can't honor that, neither will I.
I would also accept Laird
I have a soft spot for "Grand Duchess"
I'm right there with you. I've worked in church professions and in the medical field. When I'm in charge I let everyone know; either we ALL go by first name or we ALL go by title/last name. Too often honorifics aren't about honor. They're about power. The person in the room with the "Fr." or "Dr." exerts more influence and is more often deferred to. That's not how I do business.
I dont honor the titles of clergy because i dont recognize any authority they pretend to have. I take kings at ren-faires more seriously than any priest, minister, or reverend.
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Something tells me chiropractors don’t have a phd in cracking bones
Not a Ph.D., but it is an actual doctorate. D.C.— Doctor of Chiropractic. I worked with one once. A teacher who was making top of the pay scale for having a doctorate. Nevermind that he was an English teacher. Edit: fixed an autocowreck where pay scale somehow turned into pancake.
> but it is an actual doctorate. D.C.— Doctor of Chiropractic. That's just what they call it. It is NOT a medical degree. They do not go through the usual medical phases of education like internship and residency. It is just a "certificate" they can get that their own industry has made up without any government regulations on what it means.
I went to a chiropractor for a while and my symptoms got worse. I went on to be an EMT and I would never go to a chiropractor again knowing what I know now about medicine, biology, and kinematics.
Not simping for chiropractics here, because it's mostly total bunk, HOWEVER I think it's worth noting that Optometrists and Physical Therapists also follow similar paths to accreditation, i.e. they're not MDs. The difference here is that the fields of optometry and physical therapy are evidence-based and backed by data showing their value to the overall health of their patients. Chiropractics cannot make that claim.
That's all fine, but I wouldn't call an Optometrist or a Physical Therapist "doctor".
An optometrist is 100% a doctor, just with a very, very narrow specialization. The optometrist I worked for caught undiagnosed diabetes many, many times for instance. They can perform emergency eye procedures as well (up to a point). Opthalmologists even more so.
FWIW, Opthalmologists are MDs, but I (along with most competent speakers of the English language) agree, optometrists are doctors.
Sure, that's your prerogative. I know a few and they probably wouldn't ask to be called "doctor," either. That doesn't change the fact that while they are not medical doctors, they _are_ doctors.
> they are doctors. Well, no. But they do work in the medical profession. Like nurses, EMTs, and many many others. But they are not doctors and are not bound by the AMA rules for doctors. They have their own professional boards and rules.
By this logic dentists aren’t doctors either
Correct. Glad to see some people are catching on.
Sorry you're getting downvoted for being correct.
Meh… I’m used to it. Thanks for the sentiment.
Theyre both quacks who have done irreversable damage to people
lol... you will never hear me call a chiropractor “doctor”. Nor will I use the word "doctor" for someone who has a Ph.D but not an M.D. I reserve that word only for MEDICAL doctors.
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Damn you’re just so confidently wrong it’s incredible
Lmao what. You’ve clearly never been to college.
Well aren’t you special.
It depends on how well I know them. If I had gone to high school with them, or they were my cousin or a family friend my age or younger and I had known them way before they were a priest, then no - I would call them by their first name. If they were a friend of my parents, or I had only met them after they were already a priest, then yes, I would. But, I was raised catholic & went to catholic school, so those old habits are very ingrained and it would feel very weird not to do it.
I have a friend from high school who became a Franciscan friar. His name isn’t the same anymore. I call him by his chosen name with his honorific same as I would anyone else.
Same here and I guess I never thought much about it since like other titles they do go to school for it. I would be kind of annoyed if I was a Doctor but someone who doesn’t believe in the type of medicine I practice doesn’t respect me enough to use my proper title. Even if you do not agree or respect the title, it is good manners.
No. Profession-based titles like "Sergeant", "Manager", "Reverend", etc. only apply to other people in the same profession, or under their leadership
This is just not true in general. We refer to people as President X or Dr X or Congressman X or Justice X for example outside the profession.
I think I'm kind of a bitch, but probably not unless I'm in "their house" - meaning they are functioning in the capacity of their job. If I show up for mass and and Friar Tuck is running the show, then I'll call him Friar Tuck. If there is a charity being run by Father Mulcahy, then that is the title I'll go with. But out in the wild? "Hey man, good to see you. What name do you go by out here?" If I get the title, I tell them to have a good day and get back to mine. Family friend? First names or I don't connect. If we are not meeting on that level, we are not meeting. I've got other family to chat with. Religious titles like that are just that: titles. They function in a professional capacity. I'm not interested in really connecting with anyone with a religious function. I love to connect with people with genuine warmth and appreciation for one another, but that identity needs to feel genuine to me. And religious identities, in general, just have no purpose or use or value for me at all. Coming at me with a title has absolutely no effect and if there is some kind of insistence or demands for me to use it (outside of a professional capacity), I instantly take the person to just not be sincere. It's one reason I cannot help but chuckle when two 19 year old's come up to me and say they are "Elder So and So". The only people who take that seriously are other 19 year olds and teens looking up to them.
I like this response, and I do not think you are a bitch at all. Makes sense. We really should all make at least the initial effort to respect each other, especially over shit like this - far bigger issues in the world - but, as you indicated, once they initiate pomposity or similar such nonsense - then all bet are off. I wouldn't associate with anyone like that anyway. LOL
Father Mulcahy is Padre. I’m giving him a pass.
Father Mulcahy is probably the only priest I'd ever respect at all, to be honest.
As a Gen Xer, I agree 100%
When I worked at a doctors office we had the local priest(s) and nuns come to our office for care. To call them in when it was their turn I would use Father so and so and Sister so and so. It was a professional setting so there was a push to use it, but also, it didn't bother me either.
That’s called giving yourself an easy life. I would totally be like that too if I was in that position. Outside of that they get called whatever their name is.
My great uncle was a priest. Family members called him Uncle.
My great uncle was a Catholic priest and great great aunt was a nun. We always called them by their first name like other aunts and uncles. But I suppose in context of their "job", I might use their formal title, just like if your family member was a teacher or principal at school you might not use their first name at school.
What did their kids call them?
Mommy's rapist.
If you are going to die on this hill, take this: "And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven" -- Matthew 23:9 (ESV)
What? Catholics misappropriating the Bible??? In other news the sky is blue and the sun rose this morning
Nope, not a chance.
Never
Non-Catholic in the Catholic world. Priests I respect I call Father + First Name. Priests I don’t like I address by their first name only.
I work for a Catholic parish as a sound tech, but am an atheist. So, as a professional, at work, those who've earned honorifics get them. Every priest is "Father". Same way as if I were working a medical convention each person with a doctorate would get a "Doctor". Or any other random gig you might refer to someone as "Sir". Interestingly, the priests I've gotten to know (and like) are the ones to get first name only. More a sign of familiarity given our relationships are of a professional nature.
Relatives who are nuns and priests I just call by their names.
Their own book condemns it: Matt. 23:9 “Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven
Depends on how well I know them/if they are related to me. I see no reason to refer to an old friend or family member by a religious title. But I'll use the preferred pronoun of an acquaintance (though I have no problem telling them that is what I'm doing).
Of course I’d use the correct pronouns but those are different from honorifics since you don’t “earn” pronouns.
What I'm saying is I'd compare their insistence on using a title with something I'm pretty sure they'd hate i.e. preferred pronouns. To show that unlike them I respect how others see themselves.
Gotcha
Imo you’ve only earned those honorifics in a professional setting. Outside of the hospital it’s Mr or Ms, not Dr. Using them in everyday situations is weird.
I don't use titles that confer imaginary authority on insane people.
I would, just as I use officer for police, coach (self-explanatory), doctor, professor, etc. Titles like these do have requirements to be earned. I may not agree with religion, but I do respect the work taken to earn them. Unless a person is a total ahole, there is no need to not use a title.
You call those people by their titles when you're not meeting them in a professional capacity? I find that really weird. I have a teammate who is a police sergeant. I call them by their name or nickname, never by their professional title. I also have many friends with PhDs and MDs who I also address by their first names or nicknames, and never as "doctor" anything. I call *my* doctor by their title, but not random other doctors who I'm not associating with in a professional context. If I met a priest or nun in their church, or was working with them in a professional capacity, I'd refer to them by their professional title, but if a priest happened to be on my softball team, I'd just call him Dave.
Let me clarify. The original post mentions professional capacity and that is what I meant by my comment.
There is a guy I knew before he became a priest. He isn't as old as my dad. His name is Father Kurtis Gumvall. (fake name for privacy) Now, if anyone asked me, who is that guy? I'd say Father Kurtis Gumvall. Or even Reverend. But he isn't my daddy, and I have no reason to have him in my life, but for me, the "Father" title is the same as "doctor" (he'snot a real father, and some doctors aren't real doctors lol) or "nurse" or Miss, or Mister.
My dad is not a priest but a reverend. I call him father haha
The only place I can see the honorific being appropriate is in a church service setting. I don’t see a lot of circumstances where that would happen. Maybe at a friend’s funeral or wedding? That is the only time I would use it. Dinner at a restaurant? “Father Pete” becomes “Pete”.
No. I am not a Catholic. I would call that person Joe or Mr Smith or whatever was appropriate for the relationship. > say there were a situation where honorifics were appropriate What do you have in mind here ?? .
Nothing specifically, I just wanted other atheists’ views
No. If we must interact for some reason, I'll ask their name. No name? End of interaction.
When I was a kid I was extremely active in the Boy Scouts (I’m actually an Eagle Scout). My scoutmaster, who’s basically the head adult, was in the seminary (priest school). For years we called him by his first name, then one day it was either Father or Father *lastname*. He had completed school and became a priest. By this point in my life I was in high school and fully deconstructed from Catholicism. I was full Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. My new priest scoutmaster and I bumped heads a lot. I never admired I was an atheist outright but I wasn’t hiding my distaste for the church either. I refused to call him father or any other derivative of it. And it chapped his ass so much. I used his first name for years and I was going to continue using his first name for the rest of my scouting career, which was maybe 2 more years (it ends when you turn 18). To this day I still think he is the biggest POS, there’s much much more to the story but calling him by his first name was one of the few ways I could “get back” at him for all the nonsensical religious crap he forced on me and my fellow scouts.
Nope, not unless they were my actual father, and as my father passed 20+ years ago and was not the religious type, that’s a no. I have no respect for any religious representative (or religions)
nope.
I'd call them father, but I'd look for ever so subtle ways to use that word in a slightly inconvenient way: - Your glasses are on your head, father. - Were we in band class together, father? - As an atheist I hope you understand I don't believe in the Father, father. That kind of thing. It might help explain where they get their "atheists are terrible" -shtick, but I'm afraid I can't help myself.
Christians are annoying unintentionally Atheists are annoying intentionally
Fuck no
I called dad "dad". PK.
I would tell him I only call one man father and it sure as shit isn't him.
Nope…nada…no way.
No.
Nah, I just call them by their first name, if I know it. Otherwise it's "you".
I’d call him by his name.
No chance. Use of a religious honorific is explicitly meant to be obedience to and recognition of an authority over you. Only exception would be if they were doing something inappropriate. Then I'd say it quite loudly.
I’d call him pedo to help me remember who he is.
No. The only man I call father is my Dad. Period.
If they aren’t my dad I’d call them their name
Only situation I’d ever be in with a priest, he’d be calling me daddy.
I'm not religious so their authority within their own community doesn't really apply to me, so no. I'd go with "sir" but that's it.
No. It's a ridiculous title these charlatans gave to themselves. Nothing more.
I will call anyone by any name or title they want. Doesn’t mean anything to me. By the same token, that goes for pronouns and gender changes. If a priest wants me to call him Father Flanagan, then Father Flanagan it is. If Steve wants to be Stephanie, then she’s Stephanie. What does it matter if I don’t agree with their choices or opinions? If I want to be treated with respect, I have to demonstrate respect. It’s just a small thing to do help everyone get along.
Do you call Doctors Doctors? Do you call police officers Officer? Do you call your son Son? Titles can be respectful. You can be polite.
Maybe the first time I met them, but if they're hanging about a while I'm switching to first names
No one outside their faith is obligated to call them father.
I don't associate with people like that, so never going to be an issue. If I were introducing a priest at an event or something though, absolutely not.
I subvert the entire question and simply refer to most people by monikers like "boss" or "friend". It saves me the energy of having to try and remember titles or names and more likely than not I will never remember it anyway. So far as my faulty memory is concerned, names and titles are reserved solely for those who have earned my respect. If push came to shove, I'll just be honest if I must and just tell the person I'm not calling them 'father'.
If you have a friend with a PhD, would you call them Dr. Smith? Or just John?
The key word there is Friend. If I have a personal relationship with them, it's John.
If I was introducing them to *another person*, sure. Not much different than if I was introducing my doctor friend, this is Doctor Jane Doe, this is Father John Doe. Would I call them 'Father' myself during my own personal life outside of *any* circumstance where I am talking to them or referencing them to others in a *religious context*? Absolutely not, same as I wouldn't call Jane 'Doctor' in my own personal life outside of any circumstance where I am talking to them or referencing them to others in a *medical context.* I follow 'call centre rules'. Your name is Bob Smith? Cool how ya doing Bob? Oh you wanna be called Doctor? Sorry I didn't know I was sick, should I come in to see you at your office? No, well Bob how can I help you with your bill today?"
I would use the title if I knew them their professional capacity. I guess also is they were introduced with the title. I have used sister for nuns.
Yes. No need to be rude no skin off of my back.
I pretty much try to respect someone's PERSONAL preference for honorifics out of respect for that person. So in this case, I would honor it if the individual preferred it, and I have no reason to disrespect them.
I would call them what they want. It is like Doctor or Professor in that they have dedicated their life to it and presumably had to work and study to get the title. It's just a respectful way to treat another human. Same with Sister for nuns. I may absolutely hate religion, but that doesn't give me a pass to be rude to people who don't.
If you're talking to a doctor in a professional setting, then sure, call them "doctor". If you are introduced to them at a neighbour's barbecue, that's an entirely different context, and it would be more normal to address them by their first name. I'd apply the same logic to priests.
>I may absolutely hate religion, but that doesn't give me a pass to be rude to people who don't. The problem is when foolish people claim the right to decide what is rude and what isn't. If somebody had dedicated themself to Scientology and told you that you should call them **Grand Universal Master Swami** or something, you would have the right to say "Nah". Same with any other religion.
I would call them father.
My husband’s uncle was a catholic priest and his religious name was father Anthony so we called him father Tony. That was just always his family name and it wasn’t a big deal.
I have a cousin who is a priest. Everyone still refers to him by his first name, unless its at mass.
Sounds better, whatever the local rules are lol 🤷🏻♀️
No. I’m not part of that religion. I do not accept the authority of the position. I would call them by their name.
Not calling them anything but their first name.
Depends. If we were acquaintances, I probably would use their name unless I noticed others referring to him as “father”. I’m generally happy to address people as they prefer, within reason. Words don’t always mean the same thing in different circumstances. Here “father” would be more like a title than a claim of relation. I know someone with a PhD, and she prefers to be called “Doctor Lastname”, rather than her first name. I consider this kind of silly, but I’m happy to oblige. She did earn the PhD after all.
I had a friend become a priest. I just called him Tom because he didn’t want to be called Father by his friends.
They get 'reveren'
I'd call a priest "father", but I'd have to really respect them. I worked with a priest protesting the war in Iraq, called him "father".
It depends on if I find them to be a respectful person but I can’t find myself being in a situation where I’m around one.
I usually call him Dad...
There are a lot of titles that I don't respect personally but I still call people by them out of condescension.
If I know them personally and knew them from before? I'm calling them by their name. You may be Father Montoya, but if I grew up calling you Inigo.. then you are Inigo. Father is a title. I'm not part of your religion. I'm not addressing you by your title unless I'm in your church, infront of your congregation.
My ex-husband's cousin is a priest, he just gets called by his first name
My cousin was ordained a few years back. I still call him by his first name.
I'll be calling them "pedophile" instesd.
I’d call them Daddy at every opportunity just to make shit weird.
Given that the Catholic Church is currently an abominable, crooked, pedophile organization constantly fighting against abortion and LGBT rights, absolutely not. I don't care how awesome an individual priest is, their organization drags them down too far.
I've met several Catholic priests and have referred to all of them as "mister". And I've done this to their face. None of them have taken any offense.
Doesn't bother me too much. It's better than the italian catholic versions: "Don" (short for dominus, "lord") for priests, "Monsignor" (my lord) for bishops), "Eminenza" (your eminence) for cardinals. Those can fuck right off.
I wouldn't call it father if it was my father. Let alone a stranger.
I was raised Catholic and I would have a hard time not calling him "Father". That said, no, I wouldn't do it consciously unless there were extenuating circumstances. For instance, in a disaster or if he was injured, I would probably call him "Father" just for the familiar touchstone that could help keep him grounded. My dislike for the church is no reason not to be a decent human being. I've been in this situation a few times and generally I call them "Sir". It's relatively neutral but provides enough respect not to pick a fight. Of course, used to know my local priest (when I lived near a cathedral) so I just called him Jim when I saw him. We don't get along but there's no animosity there either. Worse for me is nuns. I absolutely, ABSOLUTELY, refuse to call a nun "sister". It has nothing to do with my lack of religious beliefs and everything to do with the fact that I find calling an 80 year old woman "sister" a horrible travesty. The misogyny of calling a priest "father" but a nun "sister" galls me so much that I can't do it. Nuns are always "Ma'am" and nothing else. I find Nuns to be the most egregious institution left to modern Catholicism. Unlike Priests, who have historically abused their positions to accumulate wealth and power, broken virtually every oath made in the name of their God, and generally been awful, awful people, the vast majority of Nuns have no choice but to keep their vows. They live lives of Chastity, Poverty, and Obedience. Their reputation for being horrible old hags isn't wholly misplaced, but it comes from closisters being the only refuge of widowed women who refuse to remarry for whatever reason. Many women over the centuries joined the order because it was literally their only escape, only to find that there was very little escape involved.
Pedo is usually a better term
I call them parasite. They are society’s leeches worming their way into everyone’s wallets.
If I am in his home or place of worship, I will respect his position as a human being that wishes to be shown respect the same way.
It hurts me nothing to call them Father. It's a title, that's all to me. I prefer to not be rude.
If the situation to use their honorific is appropriate, I use it. I feel no need to intentionally go around antagonizing people for the sake of “proving” a point or being an asshole. Just like I use people’s preferred name or nickname, pronoun, and so on. That being said, my father in law is a priest of a denomination that uses that honorific, and yet I have never been in a situation where the honorific was the appropriate way to address or speak about him.
I'd call him pedo.
12 years Catholic education here. I definitely would not. If he was a Monsignor … well I don’t know, but if I did i would feel like I was making fun of him.
No. I have a couple of priest friends. They know I’m not practicing and quite frankly they appreciate me just calling them by their names.
If they called me by my preferred name and used my preferred pronouns, yeah. Fair's fair.
Yes. Whatever floats you boat man. However, what I wouldn’t do is discussing religions with him.
I worked with a catholic priest who was an EMT with me and I called him a child molester every single day, multiple times a day, as a pet name. He laughed at it every time and even made jokes about young dudes. He was gay. Tbh, kind of a red flag all them lil boy jokes looking back.
As long as he doesn’t mind calling me goddess
If I was interacting with someone I didn't know, and I was introduced to them as Doctor/Judge/Father/Professor Smith, then I would use their honorific. Equally, in that situation, I would introduce myself as Mr. If they decide we are going by honorifics, then we can all use them. Fair's fair.
My rule if thumb is --if they call me by my first name, I'll do likewise. If they call me Mr xxxxxxxx then I'll use their title be it Mr, Dr, Judge, Rev or Father.
I am not Catholic, but I have several Roman Catholic priests as relatives and friends. If we're having a private conversation, I address them by their name. Around other people, I always call them "Father" out of deference. If there were doctors in my circle, it would be the same. My father owned a store while I was a kid, and my older siblings and I worked for him. We were prohibited from calling him "Dad" at the store, as we had coworkers who were not related.
I always called him Father. To be fair, he was a my actual father. (Old Catholic Church, not Roman Catholic - priests can marry)
If I'm interacting with him in his capacity as a priest (say a Catholic friend wants to introduce me to him immediately after mass for some reason), I'd probably do it to be polite. If not, probably not.
I have a cousin who's a priest. I don't mind calling him "Father". AFAIC, it's simply a title. Kinda like calling a physician, "Doctor".
Well it is their title. It is no different from calling someone Dr, Justice, Professor, General, Sir, Dame, Lord, Captain, Sargent, Congressman, or any other of the hundreds of official titles and styles.
In a formal situation probably would. In a personal situation it depends on. I mean I usually try to respect people’s preferences.
I use Father. The title is meaningless to me so it doesn't bother me to say itm
It’s basic human dignity to be addressed as you wish. I would have no problem.
In a formal situation I probably would. In a personal situation it depends. I mean if that’s how they are introduced I usually try to respect their preference.
Depends if I knew them before they were a priest or after. I also feel like using their name like "Father John and I go WAAY back!" would be more comfortable than walking up to him and saying "Hello Father."
lol. My uncle is a priest, and we are very close. I call my uncle “uncle”. Even when he married me, even when he is saying a mass. There is no honorific between him and I. However if such a thing existed, I’d respect that. Not because of religion but out of respect for whatever “official” ceremony required such. Many professions have settings that require a level of formality. For example I’m in legal and when someone I know becomes a judge, I call them Judge or Your Honor, no longer their name, even if we were on first name basis prior to becoming a judge.
My best friend is a Jesuit priest. I just call him Marty. And sometimes other names when he deserves it.
I've never met in person or seen on video any Catholic or Orthodox priest who seem like they would demand that from a non-believer. But I'm sure someone out there would! It's funny, because they claim that trans people are just making stuff up and say to them, "Just because you feel like a woman doesn't make you one!" Yet from an outsider's point of view, this is exactly what they are doing: pretending to be something they are not (a “Father” to people that he’s not, a man who can forgive sins, and who has a close relationship with an invisible, mute friend. If they can't tolerate it from the trans community, we shouldn't tolerate it from them, if for no other reason than to help them see their hypocrisy.
There's nothing wrong with being respectful to people. If a person wants to be called father, I would. Honestly, if their preferred title was monkey nuts, I would call them that. I don't see a problem with people wanting to be called something else.
I don't have a problem referring to anyone the way that they prefer to be referred to. Seems like common courtesy.
If you want to be polite, it's a preferred honorific just like a preferred pronoun. One way to get around it is to address him as "padre". Probably more Catholics around the world use that honorific anyway, and to you, it won't have the same connotation in your mind as "father." I'll bet it won't be the first time anyone has called him padre.
Patient. Lunatic. Conman. Liar.
No.
Only if they answer to "Father Pedo".
I’d kick them out of my life quite honestly.
I probably would. I grew up calling everyone at church by their first name, so it would be weird for me.
Only if you put a father-ted esque spin to it
I call people by their preferred name, pronoun or honorific. It’s not a big deal.
Depends if I respect them or not. If I respect them, I'd call them by name. If not I'd call them "padre" in a sarcastic tone.
I call all chaplains that visit my prison by theyre surname. As hitch said, you dont get respect just because you have father in front of your name!
use the Dutch word Vader
Why would I call these fucking ghost wizards by their imaginary cult honorifics? No thanks.
I won't call them father and don't. The largest pedo ring in history gets no respect from me.
I have an uncle and an aunt (married to each other) who are body priests. I call them by their first name as i am a regular person
No
To me, 'father' is a familial relationship not an honorific. There is only one person I will refer to as my father, but I call him 'Dad'.
I live in the Southwest. I'll use "padre" kind of condescending if I ever chance upon one, maybe. Now growing up Mormon, I'm less likely to call someone "Bishop _____". I truly don't respect that title since they don't receive any religious, clergy training. I don't think I'd use anything else, either, for any other religious clergy, but I generally don't meet any.
I would use that if he used my preferred title. I reached the title "knight" in the phantom fanclub quiz in my country. Kneel, peasant!
I would call them daddy until it made them uncomfortable enough to leave
maybe if he was my Mom's priest...
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> If you had someone in your life who is a priest, would you call them “father” (in a situation it would be appropriate) or refuse to? I'd refuse, just like I'd refuse an army or police captain or sergeant who demands a civilian to call him by his/her rank. I'm not in their church or army.
If I'm at a dinner party and they're hanging about, if I'm not on a first name basis with them, then I'm probably not talking to them. If I'm having an extended conversation with someone outside of a professional context, I'm going with first names, because we are equal in this interaction.
I think if you are introducing someone, especially in a professional setting, honorifics are appropriate and expected. In less formal settings, it might be better to say "This is John Smith. He's the priest at St. Mary's on Main Street."
As long as they will call me by my preferred Lord SATAN.
No, same way I won't (as a civilian who's never been in the military) call anyone in the military by their rank. It's their show, not mine.
Knew a girl in College whose sister was a Nun. They all called her "Sister" So-in-so
I wouldn't spend a nanosecond thinking about that hypothetical, or even the actual event.
If they are relatives and you know them well, call them by their name. Not “Father”. Same with nuns. Unless you see them in their official capacity, such as the confessional.
Depends how petty you are.
I've always used the term "padre".
No wonder people don’t like atheists. Has nothing to do with religious beliefs, lots to do with manners and attitudes.
If someone openly praises a god, holy book and religion which gives specific written *instructions* to murder gays, silence women and own people... Do they deserve respect? What if I were to rape children, keep them quiet by threatening them with eternal torture, then systematically protect other pedophiles by reduce their punishments and restricting their victims' compensation... Is that also worthy of respect?
Who appointed you to avenge the victims? You are worse than the religious. The only thing you do is give atheists a bad reputation.
They were both yes/no questions. Do they deserve respect, **yes or no**? No one appointed me to avenge anything. No one is avenging anyone. In what way is asking a question "worse than the religious?" How am I giving atheists a bad reputation?
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One more time for you to ignore; demonstrating your trolling: They were both yes/no questions. Do they deserve respect, yes or no? In what way is asking a question "worse than the religious?" How am I giving atheists a bad reputation?