>Why do atheists exist?
Because we have not been presented with sufficient convincing evidence of the existence of any deity.
>There is already a lot of proof of God but are they deluded by their own beliefs like the big bang theory for example?
You are not off to a great start here, calling us deluded is quite rude and labeling the big bang theory as part of our beliefs shows that you have no idea what atheism actually is.
>If you are an atheist, to prove to you that God exists, even though you must believe in him and not look for visible evidence, I tell you this.
I was a Christian for the first 20+ years of my life, trust me when I tell you that I do not believe in any deities.
>First, demons exist. Take a Ouija board(EXAMPLE) and play with it correctly (not recommended), and even with all of your delusion covering your beliefs, you will sense an evil presence of something you CANNOT see.
Demons are fiction. Ouija boards are real but they are just a piece of wood, and they are entirely driven by the people pushing on the ~~puck~~ planchette.
>People being possessed is a real thing that you may have already seen.
Evidence required. As far as I am concerned supernatural possession is fiction.
>Well, demons are created by fallen angels, which means that angels exist and that God created angels. Read that sentence again.
Regardless of how many times I read it, my stance remains unchanged. Gods are fiction, angels are fiction, demons are fiction.
>This is proof that things you can not see are always there.
No, it is not. You need to learn the difference between an assertion and proof. You can say anything you want, that does not make it factual or real.
>And why do you believe in the big bang theories? Because there is "evidence" to support them? People look for silly things when the truth is already in front of them, especially now that there is the internet.
The big bang theory has nothing to do with atheism, and I ma not going to get into your misunderstandings about scientific theories that you likely know nothing about.
>There is plenty of evidence to support the Bible, things that the Bible says happened or will happen.
Provide actual evidence to support one of the supernatural claims in the bible.
>Stay delusional or face the consequences when God has had enough and leaves you on this planet that will be swarming with these evil spirits when the Holy Spirit leaves this planet along with all its people who have remained faithful to Him. This world is already swarming with evil and you can be possessed, that is a real thing, but tha evil cannot more evil because God will not allow it.
Stop preaching.
>But God allows you to have free will and for these consequences to be imposed on you, such as in this video. Ask God for forgiveness if you really serious about it, and He will forgive your sins, even if they are terrible ones. The Bible is NOT a bedtime story, it is the Word.
There is no such thing as free will in a world with the Christian deity as that deity knew and chose the outcome of every decision before the creation event.
>Memorise this message deep in your soul when it is already too late. But hopefully it won't come to that.
Stop Preaching.
>Note: I am 16 years old, some things I have written may be wrong, but most things I have read in the Bible or on the internet have the same text on the subject. I'm just a simple person passing on God's word. Thank you and I'm always ready for replies when I notice one.
1. Learn to read the purpose of a sub before you post. This one is called AtheistVids because it is a place to post videos, not preach.
2. Learn something about the scientific theories without your god glasses on before you outright dismiss them because the Big Bang theory is the best explanation we have for the current state of the universe.
3. Take your god glasses off and try reading your holy book, it is one of the fastest ways to discover all of the problems with your religion and overcome your indoctrination.
Edit: corrected the name of the planchette that is used with an ouijia board.
I am challenged by a lot of posts already, though not going to argue with someone already lost. I said my part and now you cannot make up an excuse when God's wrath is upon you. Not harsh intended:)
What's the difference? I don't see one, they are still facts if you aren't deluded, but as an Christian, pretty annoying topic to talk about to atheists who are already lost, yet I know some will see this as an eye opener
> What's the difference?
The difference is a discussion is a two way conversation, and a discussion in good faith is one where both sides support their claims and arguments. You are failing at this which turns this into preaching and proselytizing.
> they are still facts if you aren't deluded
You have not shown a single supported fact in your post or any of your comments.
>but as an Christian, pretty annoying topic to talk about to atheists who are already lost
Another assertion, I am not lost in any way.
> yet I know some will see this as an eye opener
You act as if we have not heard all of this before. Nothing that you have brought here is new, many atheists grew up hearing and believing the same thing you do now.
Try reading some of the posts over on r/DebateAnAtheist, which is actually intended for these conversations, and you will quickly see just how bad your arguments are. If you were to post this over there it would likely get several hundred responses in the first hour or it would be removed by the mods for your tone and insults.
Your part is rejecting estabilished scientific theories for no reason and just making claims without any evidence. And completely ignoring a comment disproving what you said.
Congrats OP!! You have now been blessed by the blood of Satan!! Any Bible believer who posts in this sub is immediately blessed in the blood of Satan for all of eternity. There is no way to remove this blood blessing and you are now and forever a member of the Satanic realm of magic and mystery!! Congrats!!
Congratulations on clearing your 2nd sphere of infinity!! A direct reply to a primary comment on this sub has earned you a sealed Satanic Blood Blessing and this is truly a great honor for you!! Hail Satan!
We treat all make believe things the same here, his comment is to make you aware of how unsubstantiated and silly you look. It didn't work this time apparently, you might be a late bloomer. That's ok.
Lol prove to me that fairies don't exist. It's obvious that you believe in them, you're just too deluded by your ancient book to see the evidence for them.
I could beat your silly little god's ass dude, I have so many fairies on my side. You better repent.
*edit
I didn't think you'd be willing to listen to reason, so I went ahead and killed Yahweh and freed your soul from his eternal prison. You're welcome.
Fuck yourself. Christian fascists are trying to take over my country, and they won't be gentle about it. If I've offended their feelings about their fairy tale, good.
You lost me in the first 3 words. FIRST OF ALL "INSERT FANTASY FIGURE" EXISTS. That's like saying "the Babadook exists... because hear me out.... CTHULHU exists".
Dude, we don't believe in fantasy, trying to prove fantasy with fantasy is not logical and highly delusional.
If you're 16 years old you might not be old enough to be fully aware of yourself, at least I wasn't at that age. It's hard to unlearn what you're told. Christianity is one of thousands of religions, you're just an atheist to every other one, and you only believe what you believe because of the region you were born in.
Christianity is not an religion, it's believing in God, the Lord Jesus. Demons exists, or at least evil spirits, that's your human proof right there, there are a lot of paranormal activity proof around there, just because you hate God or anything compared to supernormal, doesn't mean it's not real. Just open your eyes mate, 16 years old doesn't mean I'm stupid, remember that.
> Christianity is not an religion
Christianity is most definitely a religion.
> it's believing in God, the Lord Jesus.
Yeah, we've heard it all before. "It's not a religion, it's a relationship." There is no other case where you would consider something so one sided a relationship. You would never consider a relationship with someone that you had no way to bidirectionally communicate intelligently with.
>Demons exists, or at least evil spirits, that's your human proof right there, there are a lot of paranormal activity proof around there
You need to look up what actually constitutes evidence, because there is 0 evidence anywhere for anything supernatural or paranormal.
>just because you hate God or anything compared to supernormal, doesn't mean it's not real.
We don't hate god, it is not possible to hate something that you don't believe actually exists.
> Just open your eyes mate, 16 years old doesn't mean I'm stupid, remember that.
No, it doesn't mean you are stupid, just indoctrinated into the religion you were raised in and have never tried to investigate those beliefs in an unbiased and rational manner.
Never got forced into believing what I believe, never got forced into church, never had fearing parents into believing into God, all me. Oh for sure there is paranormal, all around the internet, even though you can test it yourself which I didn't recommend anyone to do. It's not just some toy. You have your opinion about Christianity, but there are a lot of types of Christianity, I'm evangelical, and it's NOT a religion, whatever you say. Don't make up assumptions by the way about the indoctrinated part of your sentence. And for sure I did investigate in those beliefs. Even though my post here may sound a little harsh, which was not the intention.
What proof on the internet do you believe and why do you find it convincing? Surely you acknowledge that sometimes people fake "paranormal experiences" for views, how do you determine which things are real and which are fake?
> Never got forced into believing what I believe, never got forced into church, never had fearing parents into believing into God, all me.
I never said you were forced, I said you were indoctrinated.
>Oh for sure there is paranormal, all around the internet, even though you can test it yourself which I didn't recommend anyone to do.
There are hoaxes and frauds all over the internet, there is not a single instance of anything paranormal anywhere on the internet. If you actually believe any of the paranormal claims on the internet you need to seek out the guidance councilors at your school and get them to put you in a class that will teach you critical thinking skills. Honestly, after reading your post and comments, that would not be a bad idea anyway.
>It's not just some toy.
No, the paranormal is not a toy, it is fiction.
>You have your opinion about Christianity, but there are a lot of types of Christianity, I'm evangelical
Yeah, so wasn't I for over 20 years.
>and it's NOT a religion
You can keep saying this, but it does not make it true. Christianity is the largest religion on the planet. I would encourage you to look up the definition of religion instead of listening to whatever apologist or preacher you are getting your information from because they are leading you astray.
>Don't make up assumptions by the way about the indoctrinated part of your sentence.
I am not making assumptions, the evidence for your indoctrination is very clear, and all the evidence needed to support the fact that evangelicals indoctrinate their children and want to indoctrinate everyone else's children are playing out in the media all around us every day.
>And for sure I did investigate in those beliefs.
Like I said, try critically investigating your beliefs without the god glasses on. When you can acknowledge the contradictions. flaws, and downright evil in your holy book we can start to have a discussion about the problems in your beliefs but by then we won't need to.
>Even though my post here may sound a little harsh, which was not the intention.
You keep saying the harshness of your post was not intentional, but you keep doubling down on it in your comments, that really makes your claims suspicious.
It's like saying earth is flat, which isn't true yet those people are delusional in that topic, as like you. Reject the truth all you want but a 16 year old knows better than you, a bit furiating isn't it.
> It's like saying earth is flat, which isn't true yet those people are delusional in that topic, as like you.
There is a difference, that you are missing. We can prove that the Earth is not flat, you cannot provide even the most basic evidence that your deity exists.
>Reject the truth all you want but a 16 year old knows better than you, a bit furiating isn't it.
No, not frustrating at all. I am not rejecting the truth because you have not shown any of your beliefs to be true.
Christianity is not a religion? Sure, buddy, maybe you wanna go grab your dictionary for that. "Just open your eyes", "There are a lot of proofs" and specially saying someone hates God for whatever reason aren’t arguments.
Funny... every source out there says it's a religion. except for Christian sites. It's all the same really.
....how can I hate something I don't believe in? That doesn't make sense either. That's like saying I hate Vishnu. Demons don't exist, stop watching anime. You're still claiming something unproven, if not silly. Bad people exist, good people exist, though really all that is perspective.
No matter how much we have sinned, **we can always repent and be forgiven**. Some sins may be easier to correct than others, but Jesus Christ has provided for total forgiveness from all sins.
Hey my dude, I wanted to reply back to you in good faith. I was in a similar place to you when I was about 15. I'm just going to look over your arguments and post some honest feedback. I'll treat your statements as if I'm reviewing a coworker's presentation for a talk or something. I am a neuroscientist that works in academia and industry.
"This is proof that things you can not see are always there."
That is a big claim but very true. All of the cool stuff happens at a level our eyes can't render :) Chemistry baby! A lot of organic chemistry is super exciting but it looks mostly like mixing clear liquids with clear liquids. I would recommend being more specific as the claim you post now can be generalized to mean so many different things without ever hinting that you are trying to suggest the existence of the supernatural.
"There is plenty of evidence to support the Bible, things that the Bible says happened or will happen"
Careful as hindsight explains all of the fulfilled prophecy stuff. And there are over 20k contradictions in the bible:
[https://sciencebasedlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/biblecontradictions-reasonproject.png](https://sciencebasedlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/biblecontradictions-reasonproject.png)
"But God allows you to have free will and for these consequences to be imposed on you, such as in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPOGp_fUAgg)."
The video is kinda bad at presenting a consistent argument. I would say that more than 2/3s of the neuroscientist I have worked closely with don't believe we have the free will you might like to think. There are studies where scientists imaged a person's brain while they were tasked between choosing from 2 different cartoons that they were shown. These studies suggest that your mind is made up before you become aware of the decision. Free will isn't a sturdy branch to hang your faith on. And modern neuroscience has pretty much sealed the deal on death after death. You knock out a region of a person's brain and you get a predictable loss in personality/ability, so it stands that once the physical structure that is correlated with what you would call your "mind" is destroyed (death) there is no life afterwards. You need your brain for you to exist in the way you do now with all of the beautiful internal states you subjectively experience.
Your post (with a few word changes) could be used to "prove" the existence of Zeus or Shiva etc.
I look forward to seeing you post more often, maybe with fewer egregious claims.
Don't apologize.
Mathew 34: *"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send \[or bring\] peace, but a sword."*
Threats have always been the way that Christianity is spread, until it's not enough, then it's spread through murder.
Oh, honey, you don't understand how any of this works.... Learn critical thinking, logical fallacies, how science works, what actual evidence is, how humans and other primates evolved, and how the bible was written. Then let your brain mature a few years before you come to this sub again.
So you're 16 and admit some things you said may be wrong, but you're sure there's no evidence for something like the Big Bang theory that's believed by millions of scientists that have studied the subject and a lot more 1000 times what you have. Maybe you're some kind of astronomy prodigy and you'll disprove everyone's understanding of astrophysics, and I'm wrong.
Look, nothing you said here is truth. Barely anectotal evidence at best. Some things don't even make sense. Nothing like a Ouija board is mentioned on the Bible, seems silly that a Christian believes that you can use it to talk to demons.
One thing that we do agree on, however, is that there's proof of things you can't see; definitely. It seems like there isn't any for any Gods, or at the very least it's not anything you said here.
This person doesn’t have the mental faculties to even begin to approach that. This post reminds me of something they were probably tasked to do for their church. Minister to reddit. I’m pretty sure I know the area of the world they are from. I’ve met some people with the same outlook and way of wording things. Probably believes the earth is flat in a dome as well. “The great firmament)
Anthropologists estimate that at least 18,000 different gods, goddesses, and various animals or objects have been worshipped by humans since our species first appeared.
How many of those 18,000 deities do you believe in?
There is no burden of proof that something doesn't exist. Only to prove something does exist.
For example;
None of my five senses can detect God. Therefore God does not exist.
I can detect a delicious cake being baked in my home. Therefore Cake exists.
It's a pretty simple concept even for a 16yo.
You offer zero proof there is a god. Ouija and fallen angels are not proof. They are games and fairy tales.
You call us delusional but you believe in an invisible man in the sky. That's delusional.
You attest all your knowledge from a single book written centuries ago. That however, is not delusional, that's just plain stupid.
You come here, insult and threaten us in the name of your God. It means nothing to us because there is no God.
You know what else is delusional and stupid. You coming here and thinking that some how you will change our minds. That your empty threats and insults will some how make us quiver in fear. You are a 16yo pup. You know jack shit about the world.
No matter how much we have sinned, **we can always repent and be forgiven**. Some sins may be easier to correct than others, but Jesus Christ has provided for total forgiveness from all sins.
I... I don't know what to make of a post this delusional from someone so young. It's deeply, powerfully concerning that you are so arrogant and so willing to sprout genuinely stupid stuff on the internet, in a space like this, without an iota of self-awareness. The Bible is wrong, routinely. From the beginning of Genesis to the end of Relevations, the errors are enormous and undeniable. For you to come here and sprout off so arrogantly, so incorrectly, just makes me sad.
I appreciate you coming here and trying to share your thoughts, I took the time to read your post and I hope you do the same for me. I grew up going to church too, and used to believe the same as you. I honestly had a great time going to church, some people have told me I am no longer a believer believe because I was hurt at church or because I don't have a good relationship with my dad. Neither of which are true. Please don't try to assume there's some secret reason why I don't believe anymore.
The reality is I have very little issues with a belief in god, church, etc. I really want to believe true things and therefore I have always searched more than others. It never felt right that, since I happened to be born to "god fearing" parents, that I was predisposed to being the same. Had I been born in India, to Hindu parents, I would likely be Hindu just like I was born in the USA and was raised by Christian parents. Instead of believing in god I would then have believed in their pantheon of gods, including Vishnu. I would have grown up singing songs to those gods, and feeling the same sense of comfort and joy that I had with a different god. I would have had a sense of community and belonging, just the same.
My wife and I have a great relationship, we care for each other, and none of it requires a belief in god. I am loyal to my wife and the vows we made. We have been together nearly 20 years between marriage and dating. We have kids that we adore, and do everything I can for them. None of this requires a belief in god. Honestly I only know a couple people in the world who have as good of a marriage and family as I do. None of this requiring a belief in god. Please don't get confused that a lack of belief means we are unhappy, disloyal, cruel, evil, etc. None of that is true for me.
If you just look at the statistics, we tend to take the politics, religion and culture of our parents. And it seems like if there REALLY was a god then we would be seeing more than just kids being taught by their parents to believe the same thing as them. But the reality is we don't see any one religion that is able to break beyond that, and as you get older you will meet good people from many different backgrounds. You will realize that its far more complicated than it seems.
I hope you keep interacting with others, because the way you have come here seems angry and confident. One thing I have learned for sure is the ignorant are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. Now I am not saying you are in fact ignorant, so don't take that as an attack, but more a guideline.
I am curious, **If you had to say there is one most important reason you believe in your god, what would you say (concisely) that that is for you?**
It may of came a little harsh over, didn't mean it that way though. I know atheists or non-believers are people aswell, not evil people. Just wanted to spread the word, and for your last question, I've prayed a lot of times, and always God has helped me.
Some example was, once had really bad stomach ache, which didn't go away, I was crying in pain literally, mind you this was when I was like twelve and I prayed, it immediently went away after that. I was shocked. It may sound crazy to some, but this actually happened together with more prayers. Also my parents aren't those fearing parents, my family are God believers and I'm a part of that. My mother never forced me to go to a church, still don't do to this day yet I stay close to him for life.
Good for you to live such a life, though I'm happy you don't insult God, Jesus in any way, like some atheists which I was more referring to in this reddit post.
Your singular experience isn't proof of anything. There's a Muslim out there probably saying the same thing. As there are Christians, sure. As there are athiests saying they've prayed and it didn’t work.
> I've prayed a lot of times, and always God has helped me
Has there ever been a time that what you asked for didnt come true? E.G. have you ever had a stomach ache that you prayed about and it didnt immediately go away?
Just so you know god fearing doesnt mean forced to go to church or anything like that, its just another way of saying "they believe in god".
While I do not believe in god(s) I do understand its important to others so I dont disrespect. However dont let that be misleading, I am quite confident in my belief that a god does not exist, though I am open to being wrong. Do you think you are open to being wrong? Is there something that could happen that could one day show that you were mistaken?
>It may of came a little harsh over, didn't mean it that way though. I know atheists or non-believers are people aswell, not evil people.
So maybe repeatedly calling us deluded was not such a good decision?
> Just wanted to spread the word,
There are places for that, and this is not one of them. We are not here to be proselytized to. If I wanted that all I'd have to do is ask my mother.
>Some example was, once had really bad stomach ache, which didn't go away, I was crying in pain literally, mind you this was when I was like twelve and I prayed, it immediently went away after that. I was shocked.
You do realize that this is not miraculous or special in any way, right? The digestive system is pretty good at dealing with things that upset it.
> It may sound crazy to some, but this actually happened together with more prayers.
Have you ever thought about why your god can cure an achy stomach, but has NEVER cured an amputated limb?
>Also my parents aren't those fearing parents, my family are God believers and I'm a part of that. My mother never forced me to go to a church, still don't do to this day yet I stay close to him for life.
Yeah, this is the indoctrination of a Christian family, I went through the same thing for the first 20+ years of my life.
"So maybe repeatedly calling us deluded was not such a good decision?"
Don't be dramatic and I don't regret saying that part, just wanted to mention that didn't mean it harsh in my statements.
"There are places for that, and this is not one of them. We are not here to be proselytized to. If I wanted that all I'd have to do is ask my mother."
Don't reply then, don't read then, just leave the Truth.
"You do realize that this is not miraculous or special in any way, right? The digestive system is pretty good at dealing with things that upset it."
Something an atheist would say.
"Have you ever thought about why your god can cure an achy stomach, but has NEVER cured an amputated limb?"
You don't have to seek my example so deeply of something happened MULTIPLE times.
-
You do you, I said the Truth and the Word, last reply to you unless you come with something at least necessary to talk about.
> Don't be dramatic and I don't regret saying that part, just wanted to mention that didn't mean it harsh in my statements.
I am not being dramatic, I am pointing out that if you want to have a civilized and rational discussion with other people it is not a good idea to repeatedly call them delusional.
>Don't reply then, don't read then, just leave the Truth.
Gatekeeping is also not a good faith tactic. You do not get to decide who gets to reply to your posts, and you have 0 evidence that your beliefs are true.
>Something an atheist would say.
Well, yeah, if you just figured out that I'm an atheist maybe you should reread the comments I have made.
>You don't have to seek my example so deeply of something happened MULTIPLE times.
There are many, many claims of miracles, there is no good evidence for any miracles. Many people thank their deity and claim miracle status for simple and easily explained things like your example of an upset stomach which takes nothing supernatural to explain it going away. Why are there no documented cases of an amputee praying to your, or any other deity, and regrowing a missing limb?
>You do you, I said the Truth and the Word, last reply to you unless you come with something at least necessary to talk about.
So you really just came here to preach and proselytize. The arguments I have raised are rather basic problems with your statements and beliefs and you are unable or unwilling to honestly discuss them.
I know you are young, and for your sake I hope you decide to undertake a rational, unbiased review of the actual evidence made for the claims of your religion at some point in the near future. If I were you I would start with a critical read of your holy book without your god glasses on.
Just a bit of info. The Ouija board is nothing more than a board game. It works either by a person subconsciously moving it or minute muscle movements moving it. Not spirits. I used it a million times back when I was young, and nothing ever happened. Also, ya ever wonder why the dead or demons or whatever never seem to give any info that the people using the board dont already know?
What makes you believe in God? Spefically, the Christian God? Are your parents Christian? Do you not find it odd that almost everyone starts out, or is the religion of their parents? If the Christian God was real, wouldn't everyone believe in him? Why would there be Muslims or Jewish people if Christianity is the only true religion? Have you read the Bible? Have you seen how many things it gets wrong? Or how many barbaric things it advocates? Wouldn't an all loving God not want that for people he claims to love? He is all powerful and loving but allows cancer to exist in children. Why? Sin? But he is all powerful and loving. Why do that? Would you want your child to suffer painfully?
What is something you don't believe exists? Why don't you believe? Do you believe in Zeus? Why aren't you a Muslim? It's the same God. Why aren't you a Jew? Also, the same God. Don't you think there are many 16 year old Muslims who think just like you? Who prays and feels God's presence? What makes them wrong, but you right? They have a holy book, too. Why did Jesus have to die for your sins? God is again all powerful. He could have just forgiven them. Why did Jesus only come around do miracles 2000 years ago? If he came back today and produced miracles, we all could see the whole world would believe. Wouldn't that make more sense than doing it way back when people didn't understand the world? Kinda convenient, isn't it?
You're young and have a lot of life ahead of you. I've been where you were. Life has never been better, nor have I ever been happier now that I question what others tell me and, most of all, question yourself. Question everything. If you want to believe in God. Ask why. Why do some things convince you when others don't? Is there evidence? Actual evidence or just people saying something? Learn the scientific method. Why it works and how. Apply those principles to your beliefs. If you're truly secure in your beliefs, they will stand up. Watch videos from Lawrence Krauss, Sam Harris, and others. See all the arguments from both sides. Also, read your bible, all of it. By yourself. Don't let others interpret it for you. Read it and then tell me if you still believe it was written with the blessing of an all-knowing, all-powerful, all loving God. Take care.
Why do you believe? Were you raised to? Or did you grow up into a person well educated in epistemology, critical thinking, logic, reason, and you investigated some independently verifiable evidence?
A simple test, that you could do is as follows: Identify an OBJECTIVE test, to see if you are following god's will, or have been tricked into following satan and his minions.
If you say what most do, to "Read the bible with an open heart allowing the holy spirit to guide you towards its true meaning" then you just have a subjective measure. People use that method and come to different conclusions about wearing mixed fibres or keeping the sabbath or gay marriage. So clearly, that is subjective. So if someone could use the same method to get to a different conclusion, the method is susceptible to biases, and subjective. If it's subjective, then you could be here, preaching about having us join the wrong side, without even knowing it yourself.
If you can't find an OBJECTIVE, testable way of discerning whether this is a demonic perversion or a godly reality, then you should have no confidence in your position.
If you DO have confidence in your position despite not being able to test it, then you've got a problem; cos you're then \*very\* likely to be on the side of the deceiver.
No matter how much we have sinned, **we can always repent and be forgiven**. Some sins may be easier to correct than others, but Jesus Christ has provided for total forgiveness from all sins.
Given what's in the bible, your god is a moral thug. A repugnant, jealous, petty being. Let me put it to you this way: If I could stop a child from being raped, I would, your god lets it happen then "punishes" the rapist after. He's a monster. You, myself and most other people are morally superior to god. Even if he came down from the heavens, I would have to believe he existed, but I certainly wouldnt follow or worship him.
Oh sweet summer child. I was just like you. So devoted to my faith. I wanted to be a Pastor. Until I read the Bible. Cover to cover. It is vile. It is horrid. It is EVIL! Do not come here with your words because most of us are ex-Christians. Trust me when we tell you your God is not real. If he is, he doesn’t deserve devotion.
Read the whole Bible.
So you are ok with destroying cities, killing all inhabitants except the virgin girls to be handed off as sex slaves…oh sorry…”wives”. You’re ok with slavery? You think women are inferior to men? Do you condone rape? How about incest? Sacrificing? You think drowning the whole world was justified? Do you think that really happened? You think it was justified that a balding man called God to punish kids by having them killed by be mauled by bears? Hahahahahahahahaha! Here is my favorite verse.
Isaiah 13:16
Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished
Suffering causes our focus to turn inward, to face those parts of ourselves we might otherwise ignore. God can use suffering then **to develop us into better people**: the people who can love and enjoy Him forever (Romans 5:3-5; James 1:2-4)
Humans are the ones causing the suffering, tho God, Jesus the Lord is allowing it to happen because of free will and SIN. It's not God's fault lmao use your brain
God set the “rules”, did he not? Did he not decide what is sin and what isn’t? Incest apparently isn’t a sin. Slavery is apparently, not a sin. Murder in the name of God is ok, but not just everyday murder…that’s bad. Stoning your kids is cool, too and apparently not murder. Selling your r@ped daughter to her r@pist is very moral, don’t you think? These are all in the Bible and give a big ol’thumbs up to it. Wearing mixed fabrics…that’s a sin. Pride…that, is also a sin.
Suffering causes our focus to turn inward, to face those parts of ourselves we might otherwise ignore. God can use suffering then **to develop us into better people**: the people who can love and enjoy Him forever (Romans 5:3-5; James 1:2-4)
There are a hundred possible reasons for the ouija board. Here's an easy reason for no God. If there was a God do you think he would allow all this political mess with Trump to be done in his name? If he is such a vengeful God why does he allow both Trump and I to disparage him and idolize money instead of him.
God allows suffering because it is a byproduct of sin. Sin happens because God gave us free will, even though he opposes sin and helps us overcome it when we are willing. God gave us free will because he loves us. As did Trump and every one of evil people. Yet you can be forgiven.
So you haven't yet realized that by Trump comparing himself to God in his famous commercial and you people treating him like a God you are all breaking God's commandments for your orange God. I remember something about thou shall not worship any other God's. But yet you do. And you even pay his bills so that he can save his money. That sure sounds like worshipping to me. Trump is a con man and you people are the suckers. Trump can't even afford his fines. So he's obviously not a billionaire. Why would your real God let you do that? What kind of lesson do you think God is trying to teach you?
Is there evidence of god? I don't see any. I can see plenty of evidence of other people wanting to extract your wealth and control your thoughts though.. Which is one of the many reasons why I'm a proud Atheist.
Asking me to feel something while using a ouija board isn't a compelling argument. How can I exclude my own imagination that's been influenced by popular culture?
If we take everyone's personal experiences as factual, then every religion is true and we end up back where we started
Appeal to Fear (Ad Baculum): The argument suggests negative consequences ("stay delusional or face the consequences") for not believing in God, leveraging fear rather than rational evidence to persuade.
Anecdotal Evidence: Using an Ouija board and the assertion of demonic possession as proof of the supernatural doesn't constitute rigorous, scientific evidence. These anecdotes rely heavily on personal experiences and interpretations, which are subjective and not universally verifiable.
False Dichotomy: The argument presents the issue as a strict choice between believing in God or facing delusion and negative consequences. This oversimplification ignores the complex spectrum of beliefs and reasons people might be atheists, agnostics, or religious but not necessarily aligned with the author's specific beliefs.
Begging the Question (Circular Reasoning): The argument assumes what it's trying to prove. It claims demons and angels exist as proof of God’s existence, but this relies on the presumption of the religious framework it attempts to validate.
Faulty Generalization: The argument extrapolates the existence of God from purported experiences with demons, which is a leap in logic. Even if one accepts the premise that demonic experiences are real, this doesn't necessarily prove all aspects of a specific religious doctrine.
Misrepresentation of Science (Straw Man): The argument suggests that belief in scientific theories like the Big Bang is equivalent to religious faith ("deluded by their own beliefs"). This misrepresents how scientific theories are constructed, tested, and validated, conflating faith-based belief systems with empirical inquiry.
Appeal to Authority: The argument implicitly relies on religious texts and doctrines as authoritative evidence. While these may hold spiritual and moral authority for believers, they do not serve as empirical proof in a debate about the existence of God, especially for those who do not accept their premises.
Personal Conviction vs. Universal Proof: The author's sincerity and personal conviction are evident, but personal conviction is not the same as objective evidence. The argument relies heavily on the author's personal beliefs and interpretations of religious texts rather than on universally acknowledged evidence.
Emotional Manipulation: Phrases like "memorize this message deep in your soul" are designed to evoke emotional responses and create a sense of urgency or fear, rather than encouraging rational consideration of the argument's merits.
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>Why do atheists exist? Because we have not been presented with sufficient convincing evidence of the existence of any deity. >There is already a lot of proof of God but are they deluded by their own beliefs like the big bang theory for example? You are not off to a great start here, calling us deluded is quite rude and labeling the big bang theory as part of our beliefs shows that you have no idea what atheism actually is. >If you are an atheist, to prove to you that God exists, even though you must believe in him and not look for visible evidence, I tell you this. I was a Christian for the first 20+ years of my life, trust me when I tell you that I do not believe in any deities. >First, demons exist. Take a Ouija board(EXAMPLE) and play with it correctly (not recommended), and even with all of your delusion covering your beliefs, you will sense an evil presence of something you CANNOT see. Demons are fiction. Ouija boards are real but they are just a piece of wood, and they are entirely driven by the people pushing on the ~~puck~~ planchette. >People being possessed is a real thing that you may have already seen. Evidence required. As far as I am concerned supernatural possession is fiction. >Well, demons are created by fallen angels, which means that angels exist and that God created angels. Read that sentence again. Regardless of how many times I read it, my stance remains unchanged. Gods are fiction, angels are fiction, demons are fiction. >This is proof that things you can not see are always there. No, it is not. You need to learn the difference between an assertion and proof. You can say anything you want, that does not make it factual or real. >And why do you believe in the big bang theories? Because there is "evidence" to support them? People look for silly things when the truth is already in front of them, especially now that there is the internet. The big bang theory has nothing to do with atheism, and I ma not going to get into your misunderstandings about scientific theories that you likely know nothing about. >There is plenty of evidence to support the Bible, things that the Bible says happened or will happen. Provide actual evidence to support one of the supernatural claims in the bible. >Stay delusional or face the consequences when God has had enough and leaves you on this planet that will be swarming with these evil spirits when the Holy Spirit leaves this planet along with all its people who have remained faithful to Him. This world is already swarming with evil and you can be possessed, that is a real thing, but tha evil cannot more evil because God will not allow it. Stop preaching. >But God allows you to have free will and for these consequences to be imposed on you, such as in this video. Ask God for forgiveness if you really serious about it, and He will forgive your sins, even if they are terrible ones. The Bible is NOT a bedtime story, it is the Word. There is no such thing as free will in a world with the Christian deity as that deity knew and chose the outcome of every decision before the creation event. >Memorise this message deep in your soul when it is already too late. But hopefully it won't come to that. Stop Preaching. >Note: I am 16 years old, some things I have written may be wrong, but most things I have read in the Bible or on the internet have the same text on the subject. I'm just a simple person passing on God's word. Thank you and I'm always ready for replies when I notice one. 1. Learn to read the purpose of a sub before you post. This one is called AtheistVids because it is a place to post videos, not preach. 2. Learn something about the scientific theories without your god glasses on before you outright dismiss them because the Big Bang theory is the best explanation we have for the current state of the universe. 3. Take your god glasses off and try reading your holy book, it is one of the fastest ways to discover all of the problems with your religion and overcome your indoctrination. Edit: corrected the name of the planchette that is used with an ouijia board.
Excellent response except for one tiny little correction. It's called a planchette.
Thank you, can't say that I ever cared enough to really look into ouija boards.
I said my part, it's your part into believing it.
Not a very convincing argument for your deity if all you can do is preach about your beliefs and when challenged just shrug and walk away.
I am challenged by a lot of posts already, though not going to argue with someone already lost. I said my part and now you cannot make up an excuse when God's wrath is upon you. Not harsh intended:)
Again, like I said, you came here to preach and not to discuss in good faith.
What's the difference? I don't see one, they are still facts if you aren't deluded, but as an Christian, pretty annoying topic to talk about to atheists who are already lost, yet I know some will see this as an eye opener
[удалено]
Perhabs, still wanted to post it, lol.
> What's the difference? The difference is a discussion is a two way conversation, and a discussion in good faith is one where both sides support their claims and arguments. You are failing at this which turns this into preaching and proselytizing. > they are still facts if you aren't deluded You have not shown a single supported fact in your post or any of your comments. >but as an Christian, pretty annoying topic to talk about to atheists who are already lost Another assertion, I am not lost in any way. > yet I know some will see this as an eye opener You act as if we have not heard all of this before. Nothing that you have brought here is new, many atheists grew up hearing and believing the same thing you do now. Try reading some of the posts over on r/DebateAnAtheist, which is actually intended for these conversations, and you will quickly see just how bad your arguments are. If you were to post this over there it would likely get several hundred responses in the first hour or it would be removed by the mods for your tone and insults.
Your part is rejecting estabilished scientific theories for no reason and just making claims without any evidence. And completely ignoring a comment disproving what you said.
Congrats OP!! You have now been blessed by the blood of Satan!! Any Bible believer who posts in this sub is immediately blessed in the blood of Satan for all of eternity. There is no way to remove this blood blessing and you are now and forever a member of the Satanic realm of magic and mystery!! Congrats!!
Wait a moment, so you do believe in Satan yet not in God? Pretty hilarious indeed
Congratulations on clearing your 2nd sphere of infinity!! A direct reply to a primary comment on this sub has earned you a sealed Satanic Blood Blessing and this is truly a great honor for you!! Hail Satan!
pathetic
Please note your location so reps can bring you your bag of goodies for new members! The bronzed Baby Arms of Grabbing is highly coveted!
you're really pathetic as an grown adult indeed
Clearly you don't get what they're saying...
We treat all make believe things the same here, his comment is to make you aware of how unsubstantiated and silly you look. It didn't work this time apparently, you might be a late bloomer. That's ok.
Lol prove to me that fairies don't exist. It's obvious that you believe in them, you're just too deluded by your ancient book to see the evidence for them. I could beat your silly little god's ass dude, I have so many fairies on my side. You better repent. *edit I didn't think you'd be willing to listen to reason, so I went ahead and killed Yahweh and freed your soul from his eternal prison. You're welcome.
Calm down there bud, kids 16, no need for condescending remarks.
Fuck yourself. Christian fascists are trying to take over my country, and they won't be gentle about it. If I've offended their feelings about their fairy tale, good.
You lost me in the first 3 words. FIRST OF ALL "INSERT FANTASY FIGURE" EXISTS. That's like saying "the Babadook exists... because hear me out.... CTHULHU exists". Dude, we don't believe in fantasy, trying to prove fantasy with fantasy is not logical and highly delusional. If you're 16 years old you might not be old enough to be fully aware of yourself, at least I wasn't at that age. It's hard to unlearn what you're told. Christianity is one of thousands of religions, you're just an atheist to every other one, and you only believe what you believe because of the region you were born in.
Christianity is not an religion, it's believing in God, the Lord Jesus. Demons exists, or at least evil spirits, that's your human proof right there, there are a lot of paranormal activity proof around there, just because you hate God or anything compared to supernormal, doesn't mean it's not real. Just open your eyes mate, 16 years old doesn't mean I'm stupid, remember that.
> Christianity is not an religion Christianity is most definitely a religion. > it's believing in God, the Lord Jesus. Yeah, we've heard it all before. "It's not a religion, it's a relationship." There is no other case where you would consider something so one sided a relationship. You would never consider a relationship with someone that you had no way to bidirectionally communicate intelligently with. >Demons exists, or at least evil spirits, that's your human proof right there, there are a lot of paranormal activity proof around there You need to look up what actually constitutes evidence, because there is 0 evidence anywhere for anything supernatural or paranormal. >just because you hate God or anything compared to supernormal, doesn't mean it's not real. We don't hate god, it is not possible to hate something that you don't believe actually exists. > Just open your eyes mate, 16 years old doesn't mean I'm stupid, remember that. No, it doesn't mean you are stupid, just indoctrinated into the religion you were raised in and have never tried to investigate those beliefs in an unbiased and rational manner.
Never got forced into believing what I believe, never got forced into church, never had fearing parents into believing into God, all me. Oh for sure there is paranormal, all around the internet, even though you can test it yourself which I didn't recommend anyone to do. It's not just some toy. You have your opinion about Christianity, but there are a lot of types of Christianity, I'm evangelical, and it's NOT a religion, whatever you say. Don't make up assumptions by the way about the indoctrinated part of your sentence. And for sure I did investigate in those beliefs. Even though my post here may sound a little harsh, which was not the intention.
What proof on the internet do you believe and why do you find it convincing? Surely you acknowledge that sometimes people fake "paranormal experiences" for views, how do you determine which things are real and which are fake?
> Never got forced into believing what I believe, never got forced into church, never had fearing parents into believing into God, all me. I never said you were forced, I said you were indoctrinated. >Oh for sure there is paranormal, all around the internet, even though you can test it yourself which I didn't recommend anyone to do. There are hoaxes and frauds all over the internet, there is not a single instance of anything paranormal anywhere on the internet. If you actually believe any of the paranormal claims on the internet you need to seek out the guidance councilors at your school and get them to put you in a class that will teach you critical thinking skills. Honestly, after reading your post and comments, that would not be a bad idea anyway. >It's not just some toy. No, the paranormal is not a toy, it is fiction. >You have your opinion about Christianity, but there are a lot of types of Christianity, I'm evangelical Yeah, so wasn't I for over 20 years. >and it's NOT a religion You can keep saying this, but it does not make it true. Christianity is the largest religion on the planet. I would encourage you to look up the definition of religion instead of listening to whatever apologist or preacher you are getting your information from because they are leading you astray. >Don't make up assumptions by the way about the indoctrinated part of your sentence. I am not making assumptions, the evidence for your indoctrination is very clear, and all the evidence needed to support the fact that evangelicals indoctrinate their children and want to indoctrinate everyone else's children are playing out in the media all around us every day. >And for sure I did investigate in those beliefs. Like I said, try critically investigating your beliefs without the god glasses on. When you can acknowledge the contradictions. flaws, and downright evil in your holy book we can start to have a discussion about the problems in your beliefs but by then we won't need to. >Even though my post here may sound a little harsh, which was not the intention. You keep saying the harshness of your post was not intentional, but you keep doubling down on it in your comments, that really makes your claims suspicious.
You don't have to tell me as an atheist what Christianity is about, I know.
It's like saying earth is flat, which isn't true yet those people are delusional in that topic, as like you. Reject the truth all you want but a 16 year old knows better than you, a bit furiating isn't it.
> It's like saying earth is flat, which isn't true yet those people are delusional in that topic, as like you. There is a difference, that you are missing. We can prove that the Earth is not flat, you cannot provide even the most basic evidence that your deity exists. >Reject the truth all you want but a 16 year old knows better than you, a bit furiating isn't it. No, not frustrating at all. I am not rejecting the truth because you have not shown any of your beliefs to be true.
Christianity is not a religion? Sure, buddy, maybe you wanna go grab your dictionary for that. "Just open your eyes", "There are a lot of proofs" and specially saying someone hates God for whatever reason aren’t arguments.
Funny... every source out there says it's a religion. except for Christian sites. It's all the same really. ....how can I hate something I don't believe in? That doesn't make sense either. That's like saying I hate Vishnu. Demons don't exist, stop watching anime. You're still claiming something unproven, if not silly. Bad people exist, good people exist, though really all that is perspective.
Anime? Funny, try it then, would like for you to see what anime it is when it is to late.
What is it like to see other human's made up fantasies and legit believe it? You must live in a constant state of fear XD
Wrong:)
Must be another layer of delusion that helps if you actually believe in demons. I've been chasing leprechauns this whole time myself.
No matter how much we have sinned, **we can always repent and be forgiven**. Some sins may be easier to correct than others, but Jesus Christ has provided for total forgiveness from all sins.
I dont need forgiveness from your imagination. 😆
Hey my dude, I wanted to reply back to you in good faith. I was in a similar place to you when I was about 15. I'm just going to look over your arguments and post some honest feedback. I'll treat your statements as if I'm reviewing a coworker's presentation for a talk or something. I am a neuroscientist that works in academia and industry. "This is proof that things you can not see are always there." That is a big claim but very true. All of the cool stuff happens at a level our eyes can't render :) Chemistry baby! A lot of organic chemistry is super exciting but it looks mostly like mixing clear liquids with clear liquids. I would recommend being more specific as the claim you post now can be generalized to mean so many different things without ever hinting that you are trying to suggest the existence of the supernatural. "There is plenty of evidence to support the Bible, things that the Bible says happened or will happen" Careful as hindsight explains all of the fulfilled prophecy stuff. And there are over 20k contradictions in the bible: [https://sciencebasedlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/biblecontradictions-reasonproject.png](https://sciencebasedlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/biblecontradictions-reasonproject.png) "But God allows you to have free will and for these consequences to be imposed on you, such as in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPOGp_fUAgg)." The video is kinda bad at presenting a consistent argument. I would say that more than 2/3s of the neuroscientist I have worked closely with don't believe we have the free will you might like to think. There are studies where scientists imaged a person's brain while they were tasked between choosing from 2 different cartoons that they were shown. These studies suggest that your mind is made up before you become aware of the decision. Free will isn't a sturdy branch to hang your faith on. And modern neuroscience has pretty much sealed the deal on death after death. You knock out a region of a person's brain and you get a predictable loss in personality/ability, so it stands that once the physical structure that is correlated with what you would call your "mind" is destroyed (death) there is no life afterwards. You need your brain for you to exist in the way you do now with all of the beautiful internal states you subjectively experience. Your post (with a few word changes) could be used to "prove" the existence of Zeus or Shiva etc. I look forward to seeing you post more often, maybe with fewer egregious claims.
I see which direction you're going, but my post is still how it should be. Perhabs it may sound a little bit harsh which it didn't meant to be.
Don't apologize. Mathew 34: *"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send \[or bring\] peace, but a sword."* Threats have always been the way that Christianity is spread, until it's not enough, then it's spread through murder.
You seem Christian, and if you aren't good for you for not insulting Jesus! Thank you for taking your time in my post too.
Guy says, "Christianity is always spread by threats, violence, and murder." Ah yes, a fellow Christian, for sure.
I thought Ouija boards were proof that leprechauns exist? or was it unicorns? Or maybe ideomotor effect?
Was only making an example, more referring to actual evil activity which links back to God, Jesus.
Oh, honey, you don't understand how any of this works.... Learn critical thinking, logical fallacies, how science works, what actual evidence is, how humans and other primates evolved, and how the bible was written. Then let your brain mature a few years before you come to this sub again.
no need:)
So you're 16 and admit some things you said may be wrong, but you're sure there's no evidence for something like the Big Bang theory that's believed by millions of scientists that have studied the subject and a lot more 1000 times what you have. Maybe you're some kind of astronomy prodigy and you'll disprove everyone's understanding of astrophysics, and I'm wrong. Look, nothing you said here is truth. Barely anectotal evidence at best. Some things don't even make sense. Nothing like a Ouija board is mentioned on the Bible, seems silly that a Christian believes that you can use it to talk to demons. One thing that we do agree on, however, is that there's proof of things you can't see; definitely. It seems like there isn't any for any Gods, or at the very least it's not anything you said here.
Please watch some debates from Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens, you’re talking about the god delusion.
This person doesn’t have the mental faculties to even begin to approach that. This post reminds me of something they were probably tasked to do for their church. Minister to reddit. I’m pretty sure I know the area of the world they are from. I’ve met some people with the same outlook and way of wording things. Probably believes the earth is flat in a dome as well. “The great firmament)
What area of the world?
Anthropologists estimate that at least 18,000 different gods, goddesses, and various animals or objects have been worshipped by humans since our species first appeared. How many of those 18,000 deities do you believe in?
There is no burden of proof that something doesn't exist. Only to prove something does exist. For example; None of my five senses can detect God. Therefore God does not exist. I can detect a delicious cake being baked in my home. Therefore Cake exists. It's a pretty simple concept even for a 16yo. You offer zero proof there is a god. Ouija and fallen angels are not proof. They are games and fairy tales. You call us delusional but you believe in an invisible man in the sky. That's delusional. You attest all your knowledge from a single book written centuries ago. That however, is not delusional, that's just plain stupid. You come here, insult and threaten us in the name of your God. It means nothing to us because there is no God. You know what else is delusional and stupid. You coming here and thinking that some how you will change our minds. That your empty threats and insults will some how make us quiver in fear. You are a 16yo pup. You know jack shit about the world.
Have you ever even talked to someone outside of your church?
OH for sure!
>OH for sure! sure?
Yeah. Also doing it right now ain't it
Here's hoping you grow out of it, because the sincerity of this level of belief, borders on a mental health issue.
No matter how much we have sinned, **we can always repent and be forgiven**. Some sins may be easier to correct than others, but Jesus Christ has provided for total forgiveness from all sins.
I... I don't know what to make of a post this delusional from someone so young. It's deeply, powerfully concerning that you are so arrogant and so willing to sprout genuinely stupid stuff on the internet, in a space like this, without an iota of self-awareness. The Bible is wrong, routinely. From the beginning of Genesis to the end of Relevations, the errors are enormous and undeniable. For you to come here and sprout off so arrogantly, so incorrectly, just makes me sad.
I appreciate you coming here and trying to share your thoughts, I took the time to read your post and I hope you do the same for me. I grew up going to church too, and used to believe the same as you. I honestly had a great time going to church, some people have told me I am no longer a believer believe because I was hurt at church or because I don't have a good relationship with my dad. Neither of which are true. Please don't try to assume there's some secret reason why I don't believe anymore. The reality is I have very little issues with a belief in god, church, etc. I really want to believe true things and therefore I have always searched more than others. It never felt right that, since I happened to be born to "god fearing" parents, that I was predisposed to being the same. Had I been born in India, to Hindu parents, I would likely be Hindu just like I was born in the USA and was raised by Christian parents. Instead of believing in god I would then have believed in their pantheon of gods, including Vishnu. I would have grown up singing songs to those gods, and feeling the same sense of comfort and joy that I had with a different god. I would have had a sense of community and belonging, just the same. My wife and I have a great relationship, we care for each other, and none of it requires a belief in god. I am loyal to my wife and the vows we made. We have been together nearly 20 years between marriage and dating. We have kids that we adore, and do everything I can for them. None of this requires a belief in god. Honestly I only know a couple people in the world who have as good of a marriage and family as I do. None of this requiring a belief in god. Please don't get confused that a lack of belief means we are unhappy, disloyal, cruel, evil, etc. None of that is true for me. If you just look at the statistics, we tend to take the politics, religion and culture of our parents. And it seems like if there REALLY was a god then we would be seeing more than just kids being taught by their parents to believe the same thing as them. But the reality is we don't see any one religion that is able to break beyond that, and as you get older you will meet good people from many different backgrounds. You will realize that its far more complicated than it seems. I hope you keep interacting with others, because the way you have come here seems angry and confident. One thing I have learned for sure is the ignorant are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. Now I am not saying you are in fact ignorant, so don't take that as an attack, but more a guideline. I am curious, **If you had to say there is one most important reason you believe in your god, what would you say (concisely) that that is for you?**
It may of came a little harsh over, didn't mean it that way though. I know atheists or non-believers are people aswell, not evil people. Just wanted to spread the word, and for your last question, I've prayed a lot of times, and always God has helped me. Some example was, once had really bad stomach ache, which didn't go away, I was crying in pain literally, mind you this was when I was like twelve and I prayed, it immediently went away after that. I was shocked. It may sound crazy to some, but this actually happened together with more prayers. Also my parents aren't those fearing parents, my family are God believers and I'm a part of that. My mother never forced me to go to a church, still don't do to this day yet I stay close to him for life. Good for you to live such a life, though I'm happy you don't insult God, Jesus in any way, like some atheists which I was more referring to in this reddit post.
Your singular experience isn't proof of anything. There's a Muslim out there probably saying the same thing. As there are Christians, sure. As there are athiests saying they've prayed and it didn’t work.
> I've prayed a lot of times, and always God has helped me Has there ever been a time that what you asked for didnt come true? E.G. have you ever had a stomach ache that you prayed about and it didnt immediately go away? Just so you know god fearing doesnt mean forced to go to church or anything like that, its just another way of saying "they believe in god". While I do not believe in god(s) I do understand its important to others so I dont disrespect. However dont let that be misleading, I am quite confident in my belief that a god does not exist, though I am open to being wrong. Do you think you are open to being wrong? Is there something that could happen that could one day show that you were mistaken?
>It may of came a little harsh over, didn't mean it that way though. I know atheists or non-believers are people aswell, not evil people. So maybe repeatedly calling us deluded was not such a good decision? > Just wanted to spread the word, There are places for that, and this is not one of them. We are not here to be proselytized to. If I wanted that all I'd have to do is ask my mother. >Some example was, once had really bad stomach ache, which didn't go away, I was crying in pain literally, mind you this was when I was like twelve and I prayed, it immediently went away after that. I was shocked. You do realize that this is not miraculous or special in any way, right? The digestive system is pretty good at dealing with things that upset it. > It may sound crazy to some, but this actually happened together with more prayers. Have you ever thought about why your god can cure an achy stomach, but has NEVER cured an amputated limb? >Also my parents aren't those fearing parents, my family are God believers and I'm a part of that. My mother never forced me to go to a church, still don't do to this day yet I stay close to him for life. Yeah, this is the indoctrination of a Christian family, I went through the same thing for the first 20+ years of my life.
"So maybe repeatedly calling us deluded was not such a good decision?" Don't be dramatic and I don't regret saying that part, just wanted to mention that didn't mean it harsh in my statements. "There are places for that, and this is not one of them. We are not here to be proselytized to. If I wanted that all I'd have to do is ask my mother." Don't reply then, don't read then, just leave the Truth. "You do realize that this is not miraculous or special in any way, right? The digestive system is pretty good at dealing with things that upset it." Something an atheist would say. "Have you ever thought about why your god can cure an achy stomach, but has NEVER cured an amputated limb?" You don't have to seek my example so deeply of something happened MULTIPLE times. - You do you, I said the Truth and the Word, last reply to you unless you come with something at least necessary to talk about.
> Don't be dramatic and I don't regret saying that part, just wanted to mention that didn't mean it harsh in my statements. I am not being dramatic, I am pointing out that if you want to have a civilized and rational discussion with other people it is not a good idea to repeatedly call them delusional. >Don't reply then, don't read then, just leave the Truth. Gatekeeping is also not a good faith tactic. You do not get to decide who gets to reply to your posts, and you have 0 evidence that your beliefs are true. >Something an atheist would say. Well, yeah, if you just figured out that I'm an atheist maybe you should reread the comments I have made. >You don't have to seek my example so deeply of something happened MULTIPLE times. There are many, many claims of miracles, there is no good evidence for any miracles. Many people thank their deity and claim miracle status for simple and easily explained things like your example of an upset stomach which takes nothing supernatural to explain it going away. Why are there no documented cases of an amputee praying to your, or any other deity, and regrowing a missing limb? >You do you, I said the Truth and the Word, last reply to you unless you come with something at least necessary to talk about. So you really just came here to preach and proselytize. The arguments I have raised are rather basic problems with your statements and beliefs and you are unable or unwilling to honestly discuss them. I know you are young, and for your sake I hope you decide to undertake a rational, unbiased review of the actual evidence made for the claims of your religion at some point in the near future. If I were you I would start with a critical read of your holy book without your god glasses on.
Just a bit of info. The Ouija board is nothing more than a board game. It works either by a person subconsciously moving it or minute muscle movements moving it. Not spirits. I used it a million times back when I was young, and nothing ever happened. Also, ya ever wonder why the dead or demons or whatever never seem to give any info that the people using the board dont already know? What makes you believe in God? Spefically, the Christian God? Are your parents Christian? Do you not find it odd that almost everyone starts out, or is the religion of their parents? If the Christian God was real, wouldn't everyone believe in him? Why would there be Muslims or Jewish people if Christianity is the only true religion? Have you read the Bible? Have you seen how many things it gets wrong? Or how many barbaric things it advocates? Wouldn't an all loving God not want that for people he claims to love? He is all powerful and loving but allows cancer to exist in children. Why? Sin? But he is all powerful and loving. Why do that? Would you want your child to suffer painfully? What is something you don't believe exists? Why don't you believe? Do you believe in Zeus? Why aren't you a Muslim? It's the same God. Why aren't you a Jew? Also, the same God. Don't you think there are many 16 year old Muslims who think just like you? Who prays and feels God's presence? What makes them wrong, but you right? They have a holy book, too. Why did Jesus have to die for your sins? God is again all powerful. He could have just forgiven them. Why did Jesus only come around do miracles 2000 years ago? If he came back today and produced miracles, we all could see the whole world would believe. Wouldn't that make more sense than doing it way back when people didn't understand the world? Kinda convenient, isn't it? You're young and have a lot of life ahead of you. I've been where you were. Life has never been better, nor have I ever been happier now that I question what others tell me and, most of all, question yourself. Question everything. If you want to believe in God. Ask why. Why do some things convince you when others don't? Is there evidence? Actual evidence or just people saying something? Learn the scientific method. Why it works and how. Apply those principles to your beliefs. If you're truly secure in your beliefs, they will stand up. Watch videos from Lawrence Krauss, Sam Harris, and others. See all the arguments from both sides. Also, read your bible, all of it. By yourself. Don't let others interpret it for you. Read it and then tell me if you still believe it was written with the blessing of an all-knowing, all-powerful, all loving God. Take care.
Your starting point where your argument starts is " first of all ouja boards work and are real" You do not have a reality based world view
Never said that sentence and was giving an example of some sort of dark toy could be used to bring those evil spirits in. Read correctly
Why do you believe? Were you raised to? Or did you grow up into a person well educated in epistemology, critical thinking, logic, reason, and you investigated some independently verifiable evidence?
All myself, but by the help of God and my family when I had questions.
[удалено]
Oh for sure I was convinced, a lot of times. I prayed, and if it was God's will, it came true.
A simple test, that you could do is as follows: Identify an OBJECTIVE test, to see if you are following god's will, or have been tricked into following satan and his minions. If you say what most do, to "Read the bible with an open heart allowing the holy spirit to guide you towards its true meaning" then you just have a subjective measure. People use that method and come to different conclusions about wearing mixed fibres or keeping the sabbath or gay marriage. So clearly, that is subjective. So if someone could use the same method to get to a different conclusion, the method is susceptible to biases, and subjective. If it's subjective, then you could be here, preaching about having us join the wrong side, without even knowing it yourself. If you can't find an OBJECTIVE, testable way of discerning whether this is a demonic perversion or a godly reality, then you should have no confidence in your position. If you DO have confidence in your position despite not being able to test it, then you've got a problem; cos you're then \*very\* likely to be on the side of the deceiver.
I was going to respond,.. then you said you’re 16. lol
remember that:)
You need a lot more schooling. Remember that
Trolls be trollin’. The chance that this could be an actual person being serious is not unsubstantial. Fuck this world lol.
No matter how much we have sinned, **we can always repent and be forgiven**. Some sins may be easier to correct than others, but Jesus Christ has provided for total forgiveness from all sins.
Given what's in the bible, your god is a moral thug. A repugnant, jealous, petty being. Let me put it to you this way: If I could stop a child from being raped, I would, your god lets it happen then "punishes" the rapist after. He's a monster. You, myself and most other people are morally superior to god. Even if he came down from the heavens, I would have to believe he existed, but I certainly wouldnt follow or worship him.
Oh sweet summer child. I was just like you. So devoted to my faith. I wanted to be a Pastor. Until I read the Bible. Cover to cover. It is vile. It is horrid. It is EVIL! Do not come here with your words because most of us are ex-Christians. Trust me when we tell you your God is not real. If he is, he doesn’t deserve devotion. Read the whole Bible.
I already did.
So you are ok with destroying cities, killing all inhabitants except the virgin girls to be handed off as sex slaves…oh sorry…”wives”. You’re ok with slavery? You think women are inferior to men? Do you condone rape? How about incest? Sacrificing? You think drowning the whole world was justified? Do you think that really happened? You think it was justified that a balding man called God to punish kids by having them killed by be mauled by bears? Hahahahahahahahaha! Here is my favorite verse. Isaiah 13:16 Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished
Suffering causes our focus to turn inward, to face those parts of ourselves we might otherwise ignore. God can use suffering then **to develop us into better people**: the people who can love and enjoy Him forever (Romans 5:3-5; James 1:2-4)
But why love him? What did he do but cause that pain and suffering? What a terrible god.
Humans are the ones causing the suffering, tho God, Jesus the Lord is allowing it to happen because of free will and SIN. It's not God's fault lmao use your brain
Do humans cause hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.?
In some cases, yes. In other cases, it is the sin of the world. Last time replying.
God set the “rules”, did he not? Did he not decide what is sin and what isn’t? Incest apparently isn’t a sin. Slavery is apparently, not a sin. Murder in the name of God is ok, but not just everyday murder…that’s bad. Stoning your kids is cool, too and apparently not murder. Selling your r@ped daughter to her r@pist is very moral, don’t you think? These are all in the Bible and give a big ol’thumbs up to it. Wearing mixed fabrics…that’s a sin. Pride…that, is also a sin.
Suffering causes our focus to turn inward, to face those parts of ourselves we might otherwise ignore. God can use suffering then **to develop us into better people**: the people who can love and enjoy Him forever (Romans 5:3-5; James 1:2-4)
So ignore the suffering and focus inward to what? Why?
Lmfaooo the ouija board was invented by two executives who work for Mattel (sound familiar?) when sales were slumping. Loooooool
Ok sure, still was making an example.
Yet you present it as 'evidence' lmfaoooooooo
Evidence that evil spirits exist.
How? If the Oujia board is bullshit and according to you it's "just making an example"?
There are a hundred possible reasons for the ouija board. Here's an easy reason for no God. If there was a God do you think he would allow all this political mess with Trump to be done in his name? If he is such a vengeful God why does he allow both Trump and I to disparage him and idolize money instead of him.
God allows suffering because it is a byproduct of sin. Sin happens because God gave us free will, even though he opposes sin and helps us overcome it when we are willing. God gave us free will because he loves us. As did Trump and every one of evil people. Yet you can be forgiven.
So you haven't yet realized that by Trump comparing himself to God in his famous commercial and you people treating him like a God you are all breaking God's commandments for your orange God. I remember something about thou shall not worship any other God's. But yet you do. And you even pay his bills so that he can save his money. That sure sounds like worshipping to me. Trump is a con man and you people are the suckers. Trump can't even afford his fines. So he's obviously not a billionaire. Why would your real God let you do that? What kind of lesson do you think God is trying to teach you?
Would be nice if you backed up anything you said, but "ok"
Is there evidence of god? I don't see any. I can see plenty of evidence of other people wanting to extract your wealth and control your thoughts though.. Which is one of the many reasons why I'm a proud Atheist.
A lot of things said in the Bible has come true, or will. I'll take that as evidence that it's not just a story from the magic bean.
Asking me to feel something while using a ouija board isn't a compelling argument. How can I exclude my own imagination that's been influenced by popular culture? If we take everyone's personal experiences as factual, then every religion is true and we end up back where we started
Appeal to Fear (Ad Baculum): The argument suggests negative consequences ("stay delusional or face the consequences") for not believing in God, leveraging fear rather than rational evidence to persuade. Anecdotal Evidence: Using an Ouija board and the assertion of demonic possession as proof of the supernatural doesn't constitute rigorous, scientific evidence. These anecdotes rely heavily on personal experiences and interpretations, which are subjective and not universally verifiable. False Dichotomy: The argument presents the issue as a strict choice between believing in God or facing delusion and negative consequences. This oversimplification ignores the complex spectrum of beliefs and reasons people might be atheists, agnostics, or religious but not necessarily aligned with the author's specific beliefs. Begging the Question (Circular Reasoning): The argument assumes what it's trying to prove. It claims demons and angels exist as proof of God’s existence, but this relies on the presumption of the religious framework it attempts to validate. Faulty Generalization: The argument extrapolates the existence of God from purported experiences with demons, which is a leap in logic. Even if one accepts the premise that demonic experiences are real, this doesn't necessarily prove all aspects of a specific religious doctrine. Misrepresentation of Science (Straw Man): The argument suggests that belief in scientific theories like the Big Bang is equivalent to religious faith ("deluded by their own beliefs"). This misrepresents how scientific theories are constructed, tested, and validated, conflating faith-based belief systems with empirical inquiry. Appeal to Authority: The argument implicitly relies on religious texts and doctrines as authoritative evidence. While these may hold spiritual and moral authority for believers, they do not serve as empirical proof in a debate about the existence of God, especially for those who do not accept their premises. Personal Conviction vs. Universal Proof: The author's sincerity and personal conviction are evident, but personal conviction is not the same as objective evidence. The argument relies heavily on the author's personal beliefs and interpretations of religious texts rather than on universally acknowledged evidence. Emotional Manipulation: Phrases like "memorize this message deep in your soul" are designed to evoke emotional responses and create a sense of urgency or fear, rather than encouraging rational consideration of the argument's merits.
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