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My go-to when I need to maintain a relationship but still call something out is "I don't get it, can you explain that?" "What do you mean? It's a joke?" "I don't get it. What does it mean?" "Well, it's funny because all *race* are *attribute*." "Oh." *Anticlimax*

Have to say I had a life-changing experience being on the receiving end of that. Was a relatively naive/sheltered "early twenties" idiot at a work lunch celebration. Alcohol was involved - not a lot, but enough to 'relax' a little. I launch into what I felt was a "humorous enough" anecdote about an experience I'd had a few days prior with an aboriginal guy that ticked all the stereotypes I thought I'd share. So I launch into it and right as I start, not thinking anything of it, I refer to the guy with a certain three letter word I won't repeat. Immediately one of my workmates cuts me off: "a what?" I stopped dead. It had never really *registered* with me that this workmate was himself aboriginal. I'd had practically no real interactions with anyone who was up until that point, and he didn't really fit any of the stereotypes. I mean.. I knew the fact of it somewhere in the back of my head there, but it never really "made it" into my actual consciousness. So when he pulled me up, and it dawned on me what I'd just said (and every bit as significantly what I was *about to* say...) well suddenly it just wasn't worth saying any more. Sometimes people - especially younger people, just don't realise the significance of what they're doing, particularly when it's in an environment where that sort of bigotry is normalised. There's generally no need to be hostile or aggressively confronting with people (it's probably counter-productive to do so), but that sort of suggestion that makes them reflect and actually stop to think about what they're saying and thinking... That can really, genuinely change people.

Thank you for sharing this! It's so important that people realise they can change their views and that no one is perfect. We all grow all the time!

This is a pretty good story. It shows just how *easy* it is to be casually racist and bigoted and why it is important to learn about and interact with people outside your comfort zone, or at least take a step back and look in from the outside.

Thanks for learning and sharing. This is why First Nations people get burnt out at work. This happens almost daily and not everyone feels comfortable speaking up as your co-worker did, because not everyone responds the way you do… I think that whole concept is something people struggle with. Death by a thousand cuts

Hey, thanks for not doubling down on being a cunt. Some people have an identity rooted deep in it and have serious difficulty letting that go because... they get nostalgic or theyd absorbed it as a vital part of their personality or something, it kind of becomes pathological. There's a whole science to all that misery and you clearly had a wider horizon in your outlook.

I think it's mostly just fragile egos. So it isn't that they're deeply invested in being cunts, as such; that actually requires a degree of self-awareness and intentionality. It's that they just aren't used to being called out at all. And they have no experience, no practical model, no conceptual framework for being able to get called out ***without*** it being a personal slight. They don't know how to save face. They don't now that humility isn't weakness. It's every bit as fucked. But I think people who are genuinely invested in being horrible, awful, offensive, harmful cunts - deliberately and knowingly - is fairly small. And most of the rest are variations on what I've described.

I'm a high school teacher and I have to do this a lot. The students hear so much from their parents and don't realise the effect their words have, or the history behind some words. Most of the time they are really receptive to it. Today's generation (for the most part) know how wrong racism is and want to do better.

I had a similar situation at work, however I was the indigenous co-worker. I let the racist dog finish with their humorous observations... and then I raised a formal complaint. They were let go shortly thereafter. I imagine they had plenty of time to reflect while looking for alternative employment.

I've seen Americans say that Australians aren't consciously racist the way Americans are. Americans will look around double-checking that there isn't a Black/Jewish/Asian guy hiding behind a pot plant before they tell a racist joke. Australians will just tell the joke not even registering that it's offensive.

Sometimes people don’t KNOW a certain word or ‘joke’ is racist until someone points it out. I know which 3 letter word you’re referring to - if you think about it, people call Australians ‘Aussies’, so I guess you thought that shortening the word Aboriginal in a similar way wasn’t a problem… until someone TOLD you that it IS offensive to do that. But the important thing is that you learned a lesson. You took the feedback on board. You’re not a bad person because you didn’t know what you didn’t know at 20. And hopefully you STILL do your best in life to not be racist to people.

Yeah, I try to be open-minded when I meet people. Except the Irish, screw those guys. :)

quite profound that. when things are normalised, you just don't think twice about what you think and say and how you subconsciously judge people. all the messaging within society has been slowly indoctrinating you since you were little and until there's a catalyst that makes you really reflect and examine some of your views, you just won't examine them. i'd also venture to say that, human beings like to gossip and storytell and unfortunately i think part of the way different groups bond is to talk shit about other groups and often this can be denigrating and also perpetuate "Us versus Them" dynamics and mentality. when you're never on the receiving end of these things because you're not a minority, you can't really relate either. hugh jackman, the actor, of all people was talking about how he as a youngster spent a year building housing for remote aboriginal communities in the alice. He said the experience was incredible for him and snapped him out of the mental turmoil (after a heartbreak) living in the city. It cured his depression. He said these communities were so welcoming to him and it really impressed upon him, the way their families and tribes were so close. He also said that aussie mainstream media depicts aborigines in this country in a very unflattering, one-dimensional way and that this is inaccurate. He also said it was a crime that he never learnt anything about aborigines in school. regarding racism more broadly speaking, i think it's significant to remember that it's not just non-white ethnicities who have and still have to cop racism by white majorities. the irish were the first ethnic group to be colonised and oppressed by the british. for example, in britain and australia, irish catholics were discriminated against and denied jobs. there were signs on british pubs stating "NO DOGS OR IRISH ALLOWED" suggesting that the irish were beneath dogs. in the US, at one point, irish and italians were not considered "white." some darker skinned italians were even lynched in the US. racism towards white people is also possible but i think when certain minorities claim that "you can't be racist towards whites", they are poorly expressing themselves. what they mean to say is that the majority group's racism - in this instance white people - is going to be more negatively impacting than a minority group's racism. it can make your life harder when white people are in charge of judiciary, law enforcement, hiring opportunities (and therefore income levels) and just by having the population numbers, you dictate even something like the energy of society, which can feel repressive, hostile or not. racism and discrimination will be levelled at *any* group by those in power, white or non-white. the goalposts of what is considered white appear to get moved according to the agenda of the day. if there are more different looking people to mistreat, then i guess it makes the rest of the whites have a new common enemy so it makes them bond together more. But when it comes to humans, there always appears to need to be a pecking order where you have better treated classes and lesser treated classes. we're not really that different from chimpanzees. they also exhibit traits of pecking order, hierarchy, bullying, intimidation, jealousy, manipulation, etc...

FYI, Aboriginal people do not like being called “aborigines” for good reason https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/08/why-saying-aborigine-isnt-ok-8-facts-about-indigenous-people-in-australia/#:~:text='Aborigine'%20is%20generally%20perceived%20as,or%20'Torres%20Strait%20Islander'.

I’m really happy you have come to this point but it’s super sad that you were brought up in a family, school and wider social setting where it took you til adulthood to learn it was inappropriate. It’s actually a really horrendous reflection of the country that in 2023 we have young adults still having this experience. Less so if your 70 and recounting your youth. Your story has made me super sad.

To hopefully cheer you up a little, I'm not too far off fifty. I'm with you in hoping things are a lot better since I was a kid, listening to Rodney Rude and Kevin Bloody Wilson, and watching blackface acts on Hey Hey it's Saturday and thinking nothing of any of it.

I really appreciated your ancedote. I'm mid 30sF but, for context, grew up in regional QLD on a farm. Went to boarding school when I was 10 and it took one stupid comment from myself for me to pull my head in. At least, that's what I thought. What I did was no longer say or think overtly racist shit. It was only when I was standing on my own two feet in my late teens, having moved out of home and began to genuinely interact with people from all walks of life that I fully reconciled just how racist some of my inner opinons and thoughts were. I mean, I wasn't exactly commiting internal hate crimes, just took maturity for me to really empathise with, and project, the experiences of others.

This is what I do, too. I am a woman in a predominantly male field, and there have been some "jokes" made at my expense. While I do have thick skin and generally don't care what people I know well say, if it's just banter, I'm fine and will get in on it. But when it is someone I don't know well or it's clearly not a joke, I do the same thing. "I'm sorry, what do you mean? I don't get it?" Watching them trying to explain why it's funny is always the best bc they realise they're going into harassment territory trying to explain it. I do the same when people are racist around me. I'm white, but I hate racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia etc

My boss is a classic misogynist. We are teachers and work in a largely female workplace, so he tells the jokes just to us guys or sends sexist memes thinking we will agree. I always ask him to explain the joke really loud, or ask him if he’d like it if someone were talking about his wife or daughter like that. He comes back with a ‘it’s just a joke’ so I tell him jokes are supposed to be funny. No backlash towards me yet, but fuck anyone who is like that. Im sorry you have to put up with that bullshit in this day and age.

Thank you. And thank you for standing up for your co-workers too. I'm certain they really appreciate it. Especially when it comes from someone in a position of power, it's hard to stand up to them. So what you do is amazing! I'm pretty used to it now and usually laugh it off bc I gather they're insecure

I like it. This is my new strategy. 🙏

This here. Especially if you can say "Oh." Then there's this awkward silence. They say these things to get a reaction. Don't react to it or dull the mood amongst the group, and they quickly lose motivation and change topic.

>This here. Especially if you can say "Oh." Then there's this awkward silence. And a disgusted face when you say, "Oh."

Nah I would serve a completely blank look. Give them absolutely nothing

That's a good one too. Give them a blank look and just stare at them just a little too long lol

The "Oh" that roughly translates as, "Wow, I just lost all respect for you".

Yes! It really does! The "oh" is the sound of any shred of respect you had for that person leaving your body. It's like a death rattle for the respect you once had for them dying

Practise it like Cillian Murphy when he’s asked silly questions — still polite but oh the body language is so telling.

This is a great strategy - forces the person to really spell out their racist comment as opposed to leaving it unsaid and you are assumed to agree.

I really, really like that. It puts more attention on them without having to be direct, and forces them to self reflect. Thank you for the advice!

The key is to have a completely neutral face, and to keep an appearance that you’re just confused. If you look like you’re being confrontational and attacking them, it doesn’t work.

I will note that it absolutely doesn’t work if the person thinks their shitty belief is correct, so use your best judgement otherwise you end up with someone happily explaining why gay people should be put to death or some other horrid thing.

Yeah, I definitely do think the approach is really great for most situations but it did backfire on me once with a poorly socialised self absorbed colleague who proceeded to cheerfully and passionately explain why Indians and Chinese were all low quality humans from low quality cultures 🙃

Thanks. Wish I could say I invented it, but I stole it. I unfortunately grew up in some fairly far right circles, and found it to be the only way to encourage the least thinky types to be more thinky.

I grew up similar. Hatred’s exhausting for everyone involved.

Was coming here to say this. I act dumb and make them explain themselves and then as they say the words out loud they awkwardly realise how horrible they are being. And if they don't realise and they stick to their racist statement, it gives you an opportunity to good naturedly correct them. For example, "Aww mate, that's a bit harsh, I bloody love (insert race) people, they're awesome fun" etc.

This is the way. Usually saying stuff but people don’t realise what they’re saying. Like turn back the boats usually means we’re ok with letting people drown

This is the way

If it’s a joke give them nothing and let their comment hang in the air awkwardly. Or turn it back around and take the piss out of them. If it’s an actual racist opinion I try to counter it but without attacking them. Like when the libs were banging on about African gangs in Melbourne I remember talking to someone who said we should deport the African criminals and their whole families. I asked if we should do that with British families whose kids commit a crime too, and asked him about various other ancestries. Had a quick back and forth and ended up asking him why he only thinks this law should apply to black people? No answer, was a bit awkward. Then I pointed out a lot of these guys are Australia citizens born and raised here and you can’t just deport an Aussie citizen to any old country with black people because they look the same to us. I think I reached a point when he realised he perhaps hadn’t thought this through and we moved on.

I had a similar conversation at around that time, the dude was full rant about deporting “African gangs”, African refugees and “economic refugees” (in my workplace, friend of my boss and I knew his background pretty well :\ ) and how they don’t speak English, refuse to intergrate etc. The full Herald Sun song sheet. I did the “I don’t understand, explain it to me” and he, entirely straight face, does. Oof. So I point out HE was a refugee. “No, but they’ve come from war zones.” Like Italy in WWII? (Still not catching on) “No, it’s different. We came here for a better life.” Oh, like “economic refugees”?. “No, it’s different, we intergrated”. Oh, it’s so nice that Australians welcomed you with open arms and your family all had perfect English before you got here. That’s the fairy tale, I’m so happy for you. “Actually, people were awful.” Oh, but at least you all spoke English, right? “No, but …” So your family were refugees, migrating from a war zone, didn’t speak English, and were treated poorly. Hey, at least you weren’t a criminal or in a gang right? (Awkward pause, because he’s regaled me with stories from his sketchy past and the racism he faced as a kid) Right? “It was a different time, and young men do young men things, wasn’t really a *gang* we just called it that and got up to some mischief because there wasn’t anywhere for us to go”. Huh, and you don’t see ANY similarities here? “No, it’s different” SMH 🤦🏽‍♀️

The deportation argument is so stupid. These criminals (regardless of race) and normally born here. The criminal justice system is what needs tightening up and fixed along with more youth programs to prevent anyone turning to that type of crime in the first place.

Exactly, why are these kids turning into criminals in the first place? Its much more efficient to prevent someone from turning to crime than it is to reform or punish them after the fact.

Exactly!!! They are bored and feel isolated so the government needs to address that with activities and programs they can easily access. I know they exist, they are just no easy to access or in all areas.

A close friend of mine reckons the local library as the reason why they are doing well in life now. Their parents both worked long hours so they were unsupervised a lot of their childhood and spent it at the library. Their neighbour was in a gang and would invite them around to play play station etc, but they never took up the offer because they had somewhere to be and had friends at the youth programmes run by the library. Its just an anecdote, I know, but this kind of thing has been proven time and time again to reduce youth crime. Its a pity the funding for it gets cut as it is relatively cheap overall.

Having a Third Space - meaning a communal space, as distinct from the home (First Space) or work/school (Second Space) - is so important for all of us, but especially for at-risk youths.

I've not heard that term before (third space). Thank you.

The library is a good place because children learn to regulate their behaviour and volume of speech too. It makes them aware of their environment. My only vice is reading way too much lol

I feel like there's a lack of *hope*

What is there to hope for?

Exactly

Target120 in Western Australia works towards exactly that. Floss is cheaper than crowns, prevention and breaking the cycle is cheaper than the justice/detention end of that road.

The problem is that there is already is or was lot of money being spent on these kind of programs, but they generally don't see much attendance. There isn't really a world where someone who grows up in a vulnerable community, raised around minor but frequent crime and develops the worldview that this is okay to perpetuate, then sees a community centre offering free woodworking classes or other programs and thinks "Oh yeah, I'm clearly in the wrong and I have to fix myself" I grew up in a very rough area but was always a homebody nerd type, so I didn't get into trouble. I went around to a lot of the local community centres and wanted to take part, they'd be ghost towns at all days and hours. I'd get turned away because you'd have to be referred by a caseworker or other body like that.

I saw a guy on an episode of the Felon Show podcast (on YouTube) who we deported back to South Sudan and he’d never even been there. He was born in a refugee camp and went through several countries over several years and ended up down under. I think we’d care more as a general public if he were white.

> I think we’d care more as a general public if he were white. Nope, the Australian public does not give two shits about that happening regardless of race because you've been doing it consistently sending people of all races to NZ who moved to Australia as babies and have no tangible connection to NZ or anyone in it. Aussies are perfectly fine with dumping their home grown problems wherever they can and it's apparent given their continued support for said policies.

If you genuinely think they might change, i think the only approach is to come at them with curiosity. Ask why they think that way, and really question every claim that might be rooted in racism. Going on the attack can make people defensive and double down, but if you hit them with genuine curiosity, and are willing to hear them out, IME the conversation is nicer, and more likely to sway.

Tbh I was “casual racism, not my friends!” Until one of them told me she and her husband (probably not her teenage daughter) call the local Chinese restaurant they love “the Chinky Chonk” I didn’t like that so I told her “that sounds racist” and she said “yeah it is” I think I embarrassed her in front of other friends (in her home) and on the spot had to admit it, I’m just going to keep calling it out when I hear it, even from friends of nearly 40 years

that resturant name reminds me of the 1940s wartime crooner radio station I used to listen to online, which remade radio broadcasts with songs from the wartime era. Never understood why there was a banner on the site saying that some of the music contained themes that were typical of the time but could be considered impolite or racist now... until they played the song 'mr wu's an air raid warden now', and the lyrics of '*He goes 'round every night to make the black-out sure. So if you've got a chink in your window, hey you'll have another one at your door'* the face I made in the middle of uni had a few people ask me if I was alright

My dad had some very sketchy friends and one time he brought one of them over for a swim in our pool. They were sitting outside when our delivery from the local Chinese restaurant arrived. This wanker who I didn't even know took it upon himself to crack a couple of "jokes" in a "Chinese accent". I stomped over and fronted him. Told him to watch his fucking mouth or leave, that I knew the person making the delivery better than I knew him and that I didn't want his ignorant bullshit fucking up my relationship with people who made my food. He stood there for a second with an expression on his face like I'd clobbered him upside the head with a rotting fish. Then he just left. My dad (who had clearly seen my facial expression as I came towards them both) just laughed wryly and said "He's the Sergeant at Arms of [well known bikie gang]. Gonna be interesting at the clubhouse on Thursday." I told him that I gave zero fucks who it was, he knows better than to bring that shit into my house. Apparently "Watch out! Beano's kid'll rip your nuts off like she did to (name) if you don't settle down!" became the standing joke in that circle for a few months. I don't care how scary you think you are, that shit does not fly in my vicinity.

I had a friend of a friend call the local Chinese restaurant the "chink chong restaurant" when listing out options to eat in the area. I genuinely had zero idea what that meant. Now for context, My friend isn't racist, but her mum is the stereotype of a boomer who complains about "using the PC terms for non-whites" kind of racist. I pulled me friend as side and asked what kind of restaurant the guy was talking about. She responded with "a racist term for Chinese restaurant, maybe I should stop hanging out with this guy hey?". So keep calling her out - her teenage daughter might appreciate having a non-racist adult in her life.

I had a friend do similar, and not that long ago... Referring to any random Asian people as gooks. I hadn't heard that word in YEARS (decade+?), and it still made me shudder. I slowed her down for a second, and check if she knew what she was doing. I asked her what she'd do if a random Asian called her a slut. Oh-wow, she-did-not-like-that. She eventually calmed down, and i highlighted the power of a word, despite having no fact.

I'm Japanese (Australian), born in Cairns (Gimuy), QLD. I was tired of being gaslit by White Aussies and "Pick Me!" Asians all the time so I did some quick research and compiled a list of hard facts/statistics on the Asian experience in Australia. I hope this sheds some light on the inequality in this country. Note: Asian Australians make up 19% of the Australian population as of 2023 "More than eight in 10 Asian Australians report discrimination during coronavirus pandemic": https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12834324 Even before COVID, 8/10 Asians experienced discrimination: https://amp.smh.com.au/business/workplace/eight-out-of-10-asian-australians-experience-discrimination-survey-20190920-p52tfp.html Eighty-two per cent of surveyed Asian-Australians report that they have experienced some form of discrimination in Australia: https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/most-asian-australians-experience-discrimination "the situation for which the highest proportion of Asian-Australians reported experiencing discrimination was 'At a shop or restaurant (70.5 per cent) followed by 'In your workplace' or 'In education.' (65.1 per cent).": https://csrm.cass.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/2019/9/Asian-Australian_experiences_of_and_attitudes_towards_discrimination_-_Research_Note_10092019.pdf " According to a national survey 82% of Asian Australians reported feeling prejudice as a shopper or at the workplace": https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/aussie-employers-have-serious-trust-issues-asian-more-linkedin-daily https://melbourneasiareview.edu.au/the-place-voice-and-portrayal-of-asians-in-australia/?print=pdf "Australia’s non-European (for example Asian, African, South American, Middle Eastern) population is at least 19 times greater than the representation on commercial networks, where it made up no more than 1.3 percent of on-air talent." https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/11/22/australian-tv-news-has-long-way-to-go-with-cultural-diversity.html#:~:text=Australia's%20non%2DEuropean%20(for%20example,percent%20of%20on%2Dair%20talent. https://www.hcamag.com/au/news/general/2-in-3-asian-australians-face-discrimination-at-work/178876 https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/06/business/asians-workplace-discrimination-covid/ "Asians most likely to report being discriminated against in Australia": https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/asians-most-likely-to-report-being-discriminated-against-in-australia/flb78mbce "To get the same number of interviews as an applicant with an Anglo-Saxon name, a Chinese applicant must submit 68% more applications, a Middle Eastern applicant must submit 64% more applications, an Indigenous applicant must submit 35% more applications." https://cass.anu.edu.au/news/minorities-find-it-harder-get-jobs-rsss-research-study https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-01/name-discrimination-job-hiring-bias-for-non-english-people/102795452 "The study, published in The Leadership Quarterly, found that jobseekers with ethnic names are 57.4% less likely to be considered for leadership roles.": https://www.hcamag.com/au/news/general/name-discrimination-rampant-in-australias-recruitment-study/444328 "Survey finds 377 incidents of anti-Asian racism in two months to 2 June, equivalent to 47 a week": https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/24/asian-australians-threatened-and-spat-on-in-racist-incidents-amid-coronavirus Whites hold 96% of federal lawmaking positions in Australia https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-61432762 Asians hold 4.4% of MP's in Parliament https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jul/25/the-47th-parliament-is-the-most-diverse-ever-but-still-doesnt-reflect-australia Asian-Australians hold fewer than 3% of leadership positions, despite making up over 19% of the population, versus Whites holding 95% of leadership positions, despite being around 75-80% of the population: https://www.acuitymag.com/people/negotiating-the-bamboo-ceiling and https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/ninety-five-per-cent-white-australian-leadership-diversity-dismal-report-finds/moo4ksv1l "The research examined 182 items of anti-Asian hate from Facebook and Instagram and classified it using a new schema for anti-Asian racism. The two most common themes were demonising / dehumanising Asians (37%) and attacking Asians because of their culture (37%)." https://ohpi.org.au/anti-asian-racism-in-australian-social-media/ https://time.com/6176970/australia-election-china/ https://australiainstitute.org.au/report/still-anti-asian-anti-chinese-one-nation-policies-on-asian-immigration-and-multiculturalism/ "He surveyed nearly 2,000 men across Australia asking them to rank how attractive or unattractive they found particular racial groups. White people were rated the most attractive. The least were Asian, Indian and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.": https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/are-you-a-racist-dater/8269564 "Gender differences in romantic relationships are especially pronounced among Asian young adults: Asian men are twice as likely as Asian women to be unpartnered (35 per cent versus 18 per cent).": https://theconversation.com/asian-guys-stereotyped-and-excluded-in-online-dating-130855 https://www.melbourneasiareview.edu.au/pandemic-racism-and-sexism-in-australia-responses-from-asian-migrant-women/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avxam/sexual-racism-asian-online-dating https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/because-i-am-small-and-asian-i-am-fetishised-by-some-white-men-20181126-p50ifk.html "Australians love Asian food, so why doesn't it win as many awards as Italian? Since 2013, every winner has been white. It's a similar story in Australia's restaurant awards. Most restaurants awarded a hat by the Good Food Guide or a star by Gourmet Traveller have white head chefs and white owners. Even among the Asian restaurants that received hats in the Good Food Guide released this month, 48 per cent had white head chefs and 60 per cent had white owners. If you take out Japanese restaurants — by far the most accepted Asian cuisine in the fine-dining circuit — it's 71 per cent white owners and 56 per cent white chefs." https://amp.abc.net.au/article/10427934 "Almost six in ten (59%) Asia-born participants in our study experienced racism in accessing housing. This compares to only 19% of non-Asian-born participants.": https://www.westernsydney.edu.au/newscentre/news_centre/story_archive/2018/the_conversation_asians_out_not_in_this_suburb_not_in_this_apartment "Rates of housing discrimination were highest amongst those who were born in an Asian country—59 per cent reported experiencing at least some discrimination.": https://www.ahuri.edu.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021-09/PES-363-Examining-discrimination-faced-by-private-renters.pdf

I'm a first-generation Australian, and my parents came here on boats, but because I'm half Dutch, half English and white, nobody asks me where I came from.

I bet u don’t get told to ‘go back to your country’ either

No, I don't.

That's because you have an Australian accent. Im from Scotland and an Australian citizen and I'm constantly asked if Im from Ireland / Scotland and when I came here. It's not offensive, it's a genuine curious question from someone showing an interest because I have a thick Glaswegian accent.

Their point is that it's not an assumption based on their race. Neither is the case for you.

no, it's because they're white. poc who were born here with as strong an aussie accent as anyone else get told to go back to where they came from. i'm one of them and even though i cannot possibly have any other accent people also "hear" a foreign accent when they see me and compliment my english.

I’ve found 2 (mildly) effective approaches: 1: play the “explain the joke” game 2: in casual conversations, mention that they will probably be looked after immigrants when they’re elderly, and that old people tend to speak their minds in the worst way, so I’d probably try to change my mindset to be less racist while you still can, otherwise you might be in for a less than pleasant retirement

I always say, “I bet you didn’t know this but I’m part (Black, Hispanic, Asian, whatever the joke is trying to make fun of).” Then I laugh as a look of horror comes over their face. I’m 100% white male so racist people assume I’m in their club by default.

Yup. My husband is ghostly white and usually has a shaved head and a goatee (mostly because I like it on him). It's fascinating how many people he's met for the first time have made gobsmackingly racist comments to him because they assume his hairstyle means they'll find a receptive audience. He usually eyeballs them coldly and says "My wife isn't white. My kids are not white. You don't want to continue this conversation, do you?". Usually they freeze, actually look at him glaring at them and then shrivel, especially if he happens to be wearing his Instructor uniform t-shirt (he's a martial artist of over 35 years and credits that training specifically with opening his eyes, broadening his horizons and enabling him to kick back against the racist culture in which he was raised). He HATES that being a white male with a particular "look" encourages racists to think he's one of them.

😂

Over 40 years ago one of the apprentices was telling a story about a run in with an Italian or Greek customer, can't remember which. Now, he was a bit of a smartarse and liked to run off at the mouth so I rarely passed up an opportunity to pull him back to earth. Anyway, when he started to talk about this 'fucking wog' I said, ' Hey, I happen to be married to a fucking wog.' It definitely pulled him up, he mumbled an apology. Did it make a difference? Probably not. The term had lost a lot of its heat by then. In the 50s and 60s it was very much a pretty derogatory term reserved for European immigrants, then it became just generic for anyone not a white Anglo. I'd like to think that things are getting better as overtly racist generations become a little better educated and ultimately die off. Im not convinced thats the case. There just seems to be an insatiable appetite for people to marginalize someone other. Our kids are getting better with fat shaming etc and being generally more inclusive. But not all of them. And I think overt is a key word. Most of us are capable of playing nice in public, maybe we're not so nice when we're drunk or with our mates and think nobody is listening. I'm not saying for a moment that you should suck it up. But I do think it's a battle that you can only win if you change your mindset. If it comes from a friend or co-worker, you could gently mention that you know that they probably aren't doing it deliberately but that you find it offensive or hurtful. You'll be taking a chance in doing that. The alternative is just to feel a little bit better about yourself knowing you're not an ignorant, nsensitive tool.

There are some great tips on here so Thanks OP for the post. Depends on the situation for me. I’m a white as white woman that lives in a pretty rural area. Small towns and small minds in some cases. I’m a big fan of the blank stare when people try and make a ‘joke’ If it’s blatant racism, I’ll call it out, no matter who says it. People can’t learn if they aren’t corrected. If it’s myself doing an accidental racism, I call myself out. Edit- removed the word ‘chick’ and replaced with woman.

As a southeast asian , I already expected racism prior to going here. I do think everyone is really xenophobic at some point no matter what the color. Even asians are racists against other asians. Black against other darker people. It's just that the whites are always called out because they're the majority(?) It's a game of numbers really. While I haven't encountered a racist white Australian here, if ever I do, I'll tell them to "Go back to Europe!" . HAHA the first australians were the aboriginals and the torres straight islanders which were obviously, not white.

I have pretty much exactly the right colouring, looks and hair to frustrate anybody playing "pick the ethnicity". I've been asked if I'm Greek, Italian, Turkish, Egyptian, Hawaiian... An endless dartboard of random "dark olive complexion" possibilities. I've joked multiple times that I'm too brown for some people and not brown enough for others. Weirdly enough, the most overt racism that I've had directed at me was from a taxi driver who was fairly obviously (clothing, accent, car decorations, music playing) from a South Asian background. And that was because he decided I was Aboriginal, and therefore the $50 I was trying to pay him with was fake 🙄 Another time, a doctor who was not my usual GP asked me how many cigarettes I smoked a day. When I told him I've never smoked them in my life, he looked puzzled and said "But you're Aboriginal, aren't you? How often do you drink alcohol then?" I just stared for a second and replied "No, I'm not Aboriginal, and WHAT?!?" He backpedalled hard, but I still lodged a formal complaint with the practice. Never saw him again.

I just fantasise about killing myself every day. I'm an adopted Korean who grew up semi-rural and every day was a shit show, only realising it looking back. No amount of advice new immigrants or white people will give you will alleviate the misery inflicted from decades of cumulative casual and overt racism. You can only hope for, and simultaneously live in jealousy of todays kids who get to grow up with better media and better parenting.

I’m an asian Aussie and grew up in Sydney, and I felt the racist difference going from a big city to visit towns further out. Can’t imagine how tough it would be to grow up there, I really feel for you.

You city kids had it so mediumly okay :(

That’s brutal, I’m sorry to hear that you were put in such a shitty start to your life. I hope your life has at least somewhat improved, or your social circle at the very least.

Thank you OP. I hope you know that you're not alone in what you're struggling with, and that you don't get particularly disheartened when sometimes solutions just don't work. People always say my attitude comes across as pessimistic but I think there's only so many "*tactics"* you can try and still experience racism before you have to find peace elsewhere. Social circles have become better but I'm personally still miserable, for a lot of **different** reasons now as an adult of course, but I think a foundational cause would be the racism and othering I experienced growing up. You're not alone OP. And let's face it; it could definitely be worse. :)

I'm Japanese (Australian), born in Cairns (Gimuy), QLD. I was tired of being gaslit by White Aussies and "Pick Me!" Asians all the time so I did some quick research and compiled a list of hard facts/statistics on the Asian experience in Australia. I hope this sheds some light on the inequality in this country. Note: Asian Australians make up 19% of the Australian population as of 2023 "More than eight in 10 Asian Australians report discrimination during coronavirus pandemic": https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12834324 Even before COVID, 8/10 Asians experienced discrimination: https://amp.smh.com.au/business/workplace/eight-out-of-10-asian-australians-experience-discrimination-survey-20190920-p52tfp.html Eighty-two per cent of surveyed Asian-Australians report that they have experienced some form of discrimination in Australia: https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/most-asian-australians-experience-discrimination "the situation for which the highest proportion of Asian-Australians reported experiencing discrimination was 'At a shop or restaurant (70.5 per cent) followed by 'In your workplace' or 'In education.' (65.1 per cent).": https://csrm.cass.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/2019/9/Asian-Australian_experiences_of_and_attitudes_towards_discrimination_-_Research_Note_10092019.pdf " According to a national survey 82% of Asian Australians reported feeling prejudice as a shopper or at the workplace": https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/aussie-employers-have-serious-trust-issues-asian-more-linkedin-daily https://melbourneasiareview.edu.au/the-place-voice-and-portrayal-of-asians-in-australia/?print=pdf "Australia’s non-European (for example Asian, African, South American, Middle Eastern) population is at least 19 times greater than the representation on commercial networks, where it made up no more than 1.3 percent of on-air talent." https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/11/22/australian-tv-news-has-long-way-to-go-with-cultural-diversity.html#:~:text=Australia's%20non%2DEuropean%20(for%20example,percent%20of%20on%2Dair%20talent. https://www.hcamag.com/au/news/general/2-in-3-asian-australians-face-discrimination-at-work/178876 https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/06/business/asians-workplace-discrimination-covid/ "Asians most likely to report being discriminated against in Australia": https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/asians-most-likely-to-report-being-discriminated-against-in-australia/flb78mbce "To get the same number of interviews as an applicant with an Anglo-Saxon name, a Chinese applicant must submit 68% more applications, a Middle Eastern applicant must submit 64% more applications, an Indigenous applicant must submit 35% more applications." https://cass.anu.edu.au/news/minorities-find-it-harder-get-jobs-rsss-research-study https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-01/name-discrimination-job-hiring-bias-for-non-english-people/102795452 "The study, published in The Leadership Quarterly, found that jobseekers with ethnic names are 57.4% less likely to be considered for leadership roles.": https://www.hcamag.com/au/news/general/name-discrimination-rampant-in-australias-recruitment-study/444328 "Survey finds 377 incidents of anti-Asian racism in two months to 2 June, equivalent to 47 a week": https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/24/asian-australians-threatened-and-spat-on-in-racist-incidents-amid-coronavirus Whites hold 96% of federal lawmaking positions in Australia https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-61432762 Asians hold 4.4% of MP's in Parliament https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jul/25/the-47th-parliament-is-the-most-diverse-ever-but-still-doesnt-reflect-australia Asian-Australians hold fewer than 3% of leadership positions, despite making up over 19% of the population, versus Whites holding 95% of leadership positions, despite being around 75-80% of the population: https://www.acuitymag.com/people/negotiating-the-bamboo-ceiling and https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/ninety-five-per-cent-white-australian-leadership-diversity-dismal-report-finds/moo4ksv1l "The research examined 182 items of anti-Asian hate from Facebook and Instagram and classified it using a new schema for anti-Asian racism. The two most common themes were demonising / dehumanising Asians (37%) and attacking Asians because of their culture (37%)." https://ohpi.org.au/anti-asian-racism-in-australian-social-media/ https://time.com/6176970/australia-election-china/ https://australiainstitute.org.au/report/still-anti-asian-anti-chinese-one-nation-policies-on-asian-immigration-and-multiculturalism/ "He surveyed nearly 2,000 men across Australia asking them to rank how attractive or unattractive they found particular racial groups. White people were rated the most attractive. The least were Asian, Indian and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.": https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/are-you-a-racist-dater/8269564 "Gender differences in romantic relationships are especially pronounced among Asian young adults: Asian men are twice as likely as Asian women to be unpartnered (35 per cent versus 18 per cent).": https://theconversation.com/asian-guys-stereotyped-and-excluded-in-online-dating-130855 https://www.melbourneasiareview.edu.au/pandemic-racism-and-sexism-in-australia-responses-from-asian-migrant-women/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avxam/sexual-racism-asian-online-dating https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/because-i-am-small-and-asian-i-am-fetishised-by-some-white-men-20181126-p50ifk.html "Australians love Asian food, so why doesn't it win as many awards as Italian? Since 2013, every winner has been white. It's a similar story in Australia's restaurant awards. Most restaurants awarded a hat by the Good Food Guide or a star by Gourmet Traveller have white head chefs and white owners. Even among the Asian restaurants that received hats in the Good Food Guide released this month, 48 per cent had white head chefs and 60 per cent had white owners. If you take out Japanese restaurants — by far the most accepted Asian cuisine in the fine-dining circuit — it's 71 per cent white owners and 56 per cent white chefs." https://amp.abc.net.au/article/10427934 "Almost six in ten (59%) Asia-born participants in our study experienced racism in accessing housing. This compares to only 19% of non-Asian-born participants.": https://www.westernsydney.edu.au/newscentre/news_centre/story_archive/2018/the_conversation_asians_out_not_in_this_suburb_not_in_this_apartment "Rates of housing discrimination were highest amongst those who were born in an Asian country—59 per cent reported experiencing at least some discrimination.": https://www.ahuri.edu.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021-09/PES-363-Examining-discrimination-faced-by-private-renters.pdf

Oh shit receipts. I couldn't imagine growing up Asian in Cairns I'm so sorry. Thank you for posting these through, though. Reading through these articles elicits a feeling of solidarity I experienced only for the first time recently at photographer William Yang's exhibition at the Queensland Art Gallery, verbatim insults I received as a child, he was recounting in his didactics/memoirs.

I'm glad you connected with it, because when I read your comment, I felt the same way. Cairns is a strange city, in some ways it's diverse due to the large influx of tourism, but at the same time, the mindsets of the locals are very conservative and backwards. Growing up was tough, to say the least, especially being one of only two Asians (the other being half White) in a class mostly of White people. I should also mention that racism towards Aboriginals by the White locals is horrendous. > Reading through these articles elicits a feeling of solidarity I experienced only for the first time recently at photographer William Yang's exhibition at the Queensland Art Gallery, verbatim insults I received as a child, he was recounting in his didactics/memoirs. I'll definitely make it a point to delve into that. It sounds like a powerful source of connection and understanding.

Hey I’m also an Asian adoptee! Would you be interested in joining adoptee communities? InterCountry Adoptee Voices (ICAV) and subtle asian adoptee traits (SAAT) on Facebook are two that I’m familiar with

That's horrible, I'm sorry you've had to go through that. But those people don't deserve a microsecond of your time let alone let it hurt you. Easier said than done I know.

I’m not white either and born circa mid 80s. I have a lot of trauma. I don’t do it anymore but in my teens and even in my 20s, one of my coping mechanisms was to shoplift stealth style, particularly whenever I copped a parking fine or whatever. But, I do realise now that is BAD, and was extremely unhealthy. I have seen a psych for this, and for the most part, I don’t steal anymore (unless it’s those free plastic bags in the fruit and veg section at Coles. That I use for my mini bins). I’m good now. But I swear, trauma is a real thing.

I feel you. The trauma and attitudes you develop inform **everything** you do from then on. I deep dived into self-destructive partying personally, and the only reason I stopped was the appearance of life-crippling hypochondria HAHA

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Australians really don't like to think of themselves as ignorant or racist while looking down on Americans.

At least most Americans realise there are race issues there. Australians get really angry and defensive if you bring up any of the race issues here.

> At least most Americans realise there are race issues there Australians and Americans are good at admitting there was race issues there. Only some of us can admit we still have them in 2023.

Its because we are a complete backwater here, both culturally and location. As a country we have a complete inability for any sort of self reflection and analysis because of our cultural insecurities.

It does seem a bit like insecurity. Some Aussies get really offended if you say things aren’t all sunshine and roses here, and it’s very insular - it’s very difficult to get anywhere if you’re seen as an ‘outsider’ for whatever reason, which seems to play a huge part in the difficulties indigenous people face.

Those kids were incredibly lucky to have you with them

Thanks that’s really kind of you to say.

Australians are completely obsessed with race and where people come from. It’s really weird. The NT is the most openly racist place I’ve ever been, it’s completely insane. People will just start spouting the most disgusting racist stuff completely unprovoked, and it’s so normal. Even so many people who work in indigenous communities viscerally hate them and make sure everyone knows. I cannot stand the ‘it’s just a joke’ stuff, it’s very obviously not and even if it were, there are certain jokes that aren’t at all funny and and should be called out, and just because someone is a certain race/nationality doesn’t mean that needs to be brought up in every conversation you have with them.

Crazy to think when USA gave black people the vote in 1870 and we didn't give indigenous Australians the vote until the mid 1960's. Crazy that some people consider Australia not having racism or a racist past.

I'm British, moving to Australia (as my S/O is an Aussie) and the amount of Australian people I've met so far who have made genuinely nasty comments about my ethnicity and migrating here is unreal, especially when they do it to shut down your arguments. I'm sorry you experienced that.

Even white people can’t avoid it, Australians think it’s hilarious to constantly call out wherever you came from. Italians are wogs, Brits are poms, it’s a society weirdly obsessed with creating divisions on where people come from - which is particularly ironic given its past.

I'm living in Europe and if I had a dollar for every time a Brit had called me a convict after learning where I'm from, well, I'd have a lot of dollars. Still, not cool that you're experiencing this.

I'm Australian, mixed as hell, I got PNG, aboriginal, white kiwi with Scottish/Irish. I love this country but cocky, dumb Australian's and their "WeRe NoT RaCiSt" pisses me off, I know so many people that say that and actually believe it whilst then turning around and making a straight derogatory "Joke" to another bunch of friends 😂, like uppercut yourself, they're not Hitler racism but they ain't innocent either. Also thank you for your work with those kids. ☺️

I typically say something like “please don’t say those things around me”. I know it’s a small step but I’m pretty non confrontational.

That's actually a great thing to say. You are signalling disapproval in a non-confronting way that may make ppl think twice.

Just tell them directly it’s racist even its a joke. May be in casual tone. But yes be direct , there is no going around with this kind of stuff , more you tolerate the worse it gets.

The problem is that these people legitimately believe that you calling them racist is actually worse than them being racist. It radicalises them further. Of course you can call them racist - you've got a right to and it's not a "bad" thing to do - it's just unlikely to go well for you, and unlikely to influence their views.

yep. They hate being called racist more than they hate racism.

Most people who tell racist jokes are just going to respond with "so? It's true" when you tell them what they said is racist. You'll just end up in an argument and it will go nowhere because they're racist.

When I was 18 which was many yeas ago now I nearly got punched in the face by pulling up a group of white guys making racist jokes. I just said to stop generalizing of a race a people.

I’m sorry this happened to you. Good on you for speaking out, so fucked they assaulted you.

One of my bosses is too comfortable using an Aboriginal slur but they are Greek and always complain when people use the word wog. At this stage I just don’t know how to deal with it. SMH.

The term WOG has done a complete 180 and people are proud to be WOGS as they brought in the culture. You look at Melbourne and you can thank the Italian and Greek culture for the cafe scene. If it was for the WOGS they would be a meat and three veg dinner!

OP, I love your humility to ask about this. I can’t give any ideas and I’m speaking from a view who has faced racism. It’s heartbreaking to be on the receiving end for sure

I'm a Kiwi and play video games that a lot of Australians also play. I've perhaps encountered two Australians out of now hundreds that weren't outwardly racist. It's so normalised and I don't really understand it. It's also sad when you take into account indigenous Australians have lived there for 60,000 years. I had one guy try and justify the genocide that took place in Tasmania. He told me if his ancestors could do that then why can't he be racist? I was honestly in disbelief. In a lot of these instances I throw the same question that a lot of people have said in this thread - "why would you do that?", "can you explain why you think that?". Often these people regurgitate shit they've heard and have never once stopped and thought about their ideas. I'm happy to read there are a lot of Australians who are countering this everyday racism, good on you. I'd almost lost faith.

This is why I really hate playing on Oceanic servers for games - I know I'll be meeting a tonne of racist people. Whether it is "casual" or extremely overt it is there and I frequently see Australians comfortable adopting the N word, as well.

I’m a white-passing middle easterner (Turkish, but I apparently look Russian or something) Gets a bit awkward when an Anglo-Aussie openly talks shit about Lebs and Muslims in front of me cos they thought I was a fellow white man. *Edit: Also not even just Anglos. The weirdest one I see quite commonly (since I live in a diverse suburb) is Chinese and Indian people who are openly racist about each other’s groups (and the way they talk about it like they assume I’m gonna agree with them).* Truth be told I just ignore it cos what the fuck else am i gonna do, pick a fight with every half-wit in the country? They just double-down on their racism when you call them out anyway.

That sounds incredibly frustrating. I can imagine finding a voice in those situations would feel impossible.

I'm a fairly white wog as well but when people are racist i don't care because its funny lol. half the stereotypes i hear are basically just W's at this point like who would be upset that the stereotype for their culture is giant tech companies like to set up shop in their country and they like spicy food? people with too much free time on their hands, that's who.

I live in Western Sydney with a large Lebanese population. When i interact with anyone who is not Lebanese, they openly trash talk about them. There arent a lot of asians or white people in my area so its been other ethnic groups. My GP, tradies, people i meet off marketplace etc

I don't know if you're white yourself but I'll come at this from the perspective of a white person with a partner who's a POC. I would second the advice not to laugh at racist jokes, even to diffuse the tension. Just give them a blank look, like you don't get it. Let the tension grow. Let them feel uncomfortable. If it's a friend you feel like you can question, I would, in a casual, polite way, ask them to explain the joke to you. Make them explicitly state that the joke is based in some sort of stereotype etc. On that front, I recently attended a professional development course with a First Nations woman who said something that really stuck with me - the racist's defense is the phrase "you know what I meant." So many times someone will say "you know what I mean" after you ask them to explain something bigoted they just said. Tell them that you don't know what they mean and you want them to explain. And if they just keep blabbering/stuttering, maybe gently tell them that you're not trying to make them feel bad, but it sounded racist to you and you're not cool with that kind of thing. And then they'll hit you with the "but I would never be racist" and you can say "I'm not saying you're racist, but you said something racist." People get EXTREMELY touchy about being called racist, be sure to label the action racist, not them, or unfortunately they'll just shut down and not listen. With regards to specific stereotypes, educating yourself is the first step to combating that. Eg; the stereotype that all First Nations people are poor, addicts, etc. First of all start with the facts: poverty and addiction ARE problems in First Nations communities. But where the racist assumes that's something inherent to culture or even to biology (if they're REALLY racist), you're going to get yourself armed with knowledge about intergenerational trauma, racist government policies of years past and present, etc. Historical knowledge is CRUCIAL in combating racism because it's hard to argue against facts. When you have actual facts at your disposal, you can throw out those facts when the racists start up. Again, using the example from above, old mate is banging on about alcoholism in First Nations communities, says it's a culture problem. Question what they mean by culture, do they mean historical cultures in the area or something modern and more global. Point out that colonisers are the ones that brought in the global culture stuff, and the alcohol for good measure. Ask them if they think First Nations people have had a hard time historically, if that could affect people today, people who might have lived through things like wage theft, stolen generations, etc. Things that are within living memory. If you're comfortable, maybe talk about your own experiences with alcoholism in your family or community (if you have any.) Humanise the issue at hand, point out it's common in different communities. Another thing is logical fallacies. So maybe old mate is saying First Nations people are all rich from Centrelink benefits, but you heard him talking about First Nations people all being poor alcoholics last week. Point that out to him, eg. "wait, I'm confused? I thought they spent all the money on alcohol, where are they getting all this wealth?" Don't be sarcastic or confrontational, approach it as if it's a genuine question. Keep prodding at the flaws in their arguments, but always politely, always with a lot of 'now I'm not an expert, but I dunno, I just think ...' Anyway this all takes a lot of practice. Admittedly my advice is usually for working with teenagers, you've gotta step very carefully around their egos.

This is incredible advice, thank you so much for the in depth write up. I’ll be sure to do more research. My workplace has a mandatory 30 minute e-module we have to do about First Nation people and involves some of the issues you’ve just mentioned, unfortunately you can quickly skip through it so almost nobody actually takes in what it has to teach, despite it being very informative and compassionate. Thanks again!

No worries, I'm a history teacher so you know I'm gunna evangelize about history education at the drop of a hat haha!

This is a marvellous comment. To add to your encouragement to learn history - I find it useful to have specific examples to drive home how recent this all was. Hope this helps u/ITriedSpinning * 1962 Steve Irwin is born * 1965 **allowed to vote in all states** * 1968 Hugh Jackman is born * 1968 Planet of the Apes is released * 1968 **Aboriginal workers on reserves are paid 50% of the state minimum wage (plus stolen wages still policy)** * **1969 Stolen Generation legislation repealed. Child removals by explicit SG policy cease, but the practice continues.** * 1972 Pauline Hanson turns 18 * 1972 **Stolen wages policy ceases (wage discrimination still policy)** * 1978 The Lord of the Rings is released * 1983 Chris Hemsworth is born * 1983 **full equal voting status** * 1984 The Terminator is released * 1986 **QLD govt starts paying Aboriginal workers equally to white workers. Wage discrimination by policy ends, but wage discrimination in practice continues.** Steve Irwin was born into a country that, by government policy, stole people's babies and wages. That confiscated up to 75% of their wages for "safeguarding", with state governments that paid Aboriginal people significantly less by policy. Even if these things happened 200 years ago, of course they'd be terrible and would still have effects due to systemic factors and intergenerational trauma. But this is so damn recent.

Don't forget lots of non white ppl are racist. My in laws are Chinese and they too am be quite racist. There seems to be an assumption by many that only white ppl can be racist (which is actually racist itself)

if anyone says "you can't be racist to white people" or that "only white people can be racist", i suspect they're just poorly expressed. anyone of any skin shade and appearance can be discriminated against, poorly treated and experience racism. what they mean to say is that white people in this country are the majority and have the power when it comes to everything. judiciary, law enforcement, hiring prospects, banking, energy of society, etc. The important and differentiating factor is the power dynamic being in white people's favour and that their racism is likely to be more negatively impacting and harmful than a minority group's racism towards a white person.

>old mate is banging on about alcoholism in First Nations communities, says it's a culture problem I'm absolutely certain that, in one of his letters back to Rome during the Roman colonisation of Britain, one of the leaders complained that the "natives" were nothing but a bunch of indigent tribal primitives who wanted nothing but to get drunk and make trouble for their betters when they should be grateful that Rome had brought civilisation to their benighted lands. Unfortunately, I can't recall who it was that wrote the letter, so am unable to provide a citation. Sounds familiar though, huh?

Nothing to do. I came to this country almost 20 years ago and still the same. How to deal? Eventually just stick with family and your own children. Don’t worry and don’t bother about developing friendships with Australians, it’s pointless. I used to put a lot of effort into integrating myself and adopting Australian values, but the reject in some way has made me appreciate MORE of my own cultural background so in a way I prefer and am happier like this

I'm an American and we protest racism to the point of riots. I don't get the racism in your country, it is so casual. I lived in NSW for a while and it was so prevalent. In addition to Aboriginals, everyone called Asians chinks. It was just normal. I went to Perth to visit a friend from Singapore and told him I was going to Perth. The cab driver to the airport told me it was a nice place but a bunch of chinks. The best dim sum though and fish and chips I've ever had was there. Even as an American, we are perceived as racists, the majority are not.

>I’m in heavy industry and not a day goes by without someone saying something racist. I feel your pain. I was until recently a forklift operator. I've tried ignoring the problem. I've tried talking about it. I've tried the old "Why you got to be like that man?". I've complained to management. After all that I still have no answers because noting ever changes, most of my workmates worked out not to talk that shit around me but that only ever lasts a week or two or till some new guy starts. My ultimate solution has been to take a redundancy & use the money to go back to school. That way I can improve my life while walking away from the bullshit. I know that sounds a lot like giving up & walking away, that's because it is. I'm walking away to a better life, where my work is physically easier & my pay packet is bigger. Fuck the racists. Let them wallow in ignorance & poverty. Do something for yourself & the good people you find along the way. In the short term it will be tough but in the long term it will be easier than playing a lifetime of wack a mole against ideas from the herald sun comment section.

That’s incredibly admirable. I wish you the absolute best, and hope one day to be in a situation where I feel confident that I can do the same.

Technically if you complained to management about it and the behaviours continued, you’ve got a case in most state law to make a formal complaint. But of course that comes with its own costs to you personally.

Not just state, but federal. Human rights laws prohibit discrimination, and these are backed up by (federal and state) health and safety laws. Employers have a Duty to provide a safe workplace, and that specifically includes psychosocial safety. So complaints about racism should always be framed like they "make me feel uncomfortable and unsafe in the workplace" - then if they don't do anything to address it, it can be reported to Safe Work Australia (with evidence). If more people start demanding action, employers will scramble to stamp it out. The only way to change culture is to get Management to act. If they won't act out of decency, they will act out of financial and reputational interest.

100% but When you are a cisgendered white guy amongst a bunch of other cisgendered white guys there isn't much of a point & as you say it comes at a cost.

I would rather have no friends than racist friends tbh

I couldn’t handle the isolation sadly

Sometimes it appears there is more support for bad behaviour than there really is. My neighbour works in a blokey factory and has autism. He sent a coworker an email asking him not to make certain comments, and it was ignored. Last week he snapped and punched the bloke. It was very stressful and there was mediation and warnings. He went back to work this week and at least 5 people wanted to shake his hand. Sometimes people go along with it because there is no known counter position.

This happened to me once, a loud mouth colleague was on my case for weeks for being gay, even though I am straight and had a girlfriend. Despite me telling them to knock it off and several warnings, they continued when we were at work drinks one night so we took it outside and I knocked him out in front of our boss. I was shitting myself thinking I'd get in trouble at work, but no one officially reported it. Through out the next couple of weeks more than a few other colleagues who I'd barely spoken to before congratulated me and told me what a good job I'd done.

Sounds like the same guy!! My neighbour is married and in his 60s and doesn’t have a strong social game due to the autism, and had no idea how to handle it. Thank god for the email. But it also means he doesn’t lie, and he went straight to his boss and told him what happened. It was on work premises so it was a big deal. I’m a psychologist and I work in sexual assault so while he didn’t think he had a case, I did. Boss wanted to keep both staff so a good outcome.

he is probably gay and projecting. these closet gays sometimes like to deflect so the focus isn't on them.

Call it out where you hear it. There’s a lot of shit jokes that people will awkwardly laugh at that could easily be stomped out at that point.

I’m guilty for the awkward laughing. I’m hoping to do better

The moment you can get yourself out of the habit of doing that will be when you start to effect change.

You recognise it, that's the first step. You'll get there. I'm the first one to call out behaviour like that but even I notice myself sometimes just awkwardly laughing along.

Have you tried "Don't be a cunt ya cunt"? Probably more suitable for close friends.

This will probably be my first response if they get defensive

If I didn't ignore it, I'd go bat shit crazy.

Honestly just find a new job, if it's that ingrained in to the culture. You're very unlikely to change anyone's mind if the majority of people at your work are brain broken racists. Especially if you don't have a friend that will back you up when you calmly confront them about their comments. They will just alienate you. That being said, stand up for what you know is right and don't take the opinions of idiot dickheads to heart, when they realise you're a 'woke pc lefty, who cant take a joke.' I know from experience. I moved from a very toxic, racist and sexist workplace to one where I enjoy talking to everyone I work with. It makes a world of difference. Good luck mate.

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I’m very sorry to hear that. I hope there’s something in this thread that can help you, or you can find a better way to navigate your current situation.

As a pale Aboriginal person, with great difficulty, to the point I don't even really try anymore. The moment I try, it immediately pivots to them denying my culture and heritage because of my pale skin. Because of that I just don't really bother anymore, it's too much effort for so little gain. I already live with a 24/7 reminder of the tragedy my people faced on my entire body, calling out random strangers isn't worth adding to that. I'll do it if it's a friend or something since they're more likely to be understanding and change their behaviour. Otherwise though, I'll just ignore them.

I bet you scare the shit out of them when you tell them your heritage. Take some comfort in that at least.

Yeah, some of them certainly get awkward and apologetic **real** fast which always brings me satisfaction. It just gets tiring having to explain why my skin is pale only for most people to not care anyway and continue denying it 😮‍💨 Thankfully, I had my identity crisis early on in life so I don't have to go through that anymore. Other Aboriginal people, even complete strangers, always accept me and treat me as family without hesitation once they find out which is enough for me :) honestly, even if you're white, as long as you aren't a dick, can keep up with the banter a bit and have a laugh, we will almost always treat you like family. It's one of the things I love about my culture so much. My people have a saying that I love as well, you may have heard it before. "It doesn't matter how much milk you add to coffee, it's still coffee." Ironically, the experiences that tore so many families apart ensured that we feel closer than ever.

I absolutely love that saying, thank you for sharing. I interact with maybe half a dozen pale skinned aboriginal people every week and every one of them are incredibly welcoming and I hate to think that people would deny them their culture because of their skin colour.

There’s this old fucker at my golf club that’s about as racist as they come. I let it slide coz he is not gonna change. I do sometimes walk ahead and kick his ball into the bushes tho.

I usually try to approach it with a bit of compassion. I think a lot of racism boils down to fear and xenophobia. It’s easy to be afraid and threatened by things you don’t understand. I talk about my positive experiences with different religious and racial groups. But since I’m not white looking I don’t usually have people being openly racist in front of me luckily🤷‍♂️ they probably correctly assume I wouldn’t like it lol.

Very tricky. I work in a school and the bias and bigotry even plays out there despite the emphasis on creating a fair and equal environment. I’ve learned to stand up to racism and bullying but it’s amazing how fast it becomes awkward. Having many non-white people in my family which is very mixed I’ve also learned that some friendships are not worth hanging onto.

I tend to say something along the lines of "Wow, you really did just say that out loud, didn't you" loudly, so that heaps of people turn around to look. Or if it's a person that I like that I want to remain friendly with I'll tone it down with a "You know, most people would call that an inside thought so that they didn't embarrass themselves" and laugh. I came came from a very multicultural city and moved rurally and it really has been a massive culture shock. People just say stuff here that... Well. My jaw has unhinged in shock several times. I'm slowly getting used to it but that doesn't mean I don't say anything. Just gotta be careful because the bogans around here are as liable to throw fists as to feel ashamed when they're called out.

Hey mate, I'll offer you my perspective.. I'm fair skinned Aboriginal person. I have copped crap from just about every angle possible, and some. I gave up trying to "deal" or understand, many, MANY moons ago. I am not put in this Earth to educate every ignorant person I come across. Nowadays, if something comes up, gets said, or the demand of an explanation is made of me.. I stand up, collect my lunch, and walk away. If you don't want to hear it - walk away. Continuing to sit there will have them either apologising profusely for offending you, usually followed with statements such as "Im sorry, i didnt know..", or "..I didn't mean to offend you, i won't speak about it again..", which is awesome - until you realise that just because they've agreed that they won't speak like that around you - won't stop them continuing to speak that way when you aren't around. (You won't stop their way of thinking, buddy - don't bother trying.) Or... they'll argue their right to free speech.. which I will say, I'm a strong advocate for. By all means, say what you want.. doesn't mean I have to sit and listen. If I don't want to participate in the conversation, I'm also not obligated to spend my time continuing to sit in the middle of it, or explaining all the reasons as to why someone shouldn't feel they're safe to spread unsolicited hate. This is how I handle the majority of conversations that I don't want to be a part of nowadays, not just ones with racist overtones. I'm not interested in water polo, I'll walk away from that discussion. I can't relate to "victimhood" dialogue, I'll remove myself from that too. Don't like it?? Walk away. Life is way to short to sit in on conversations that one doesn't feel comfortable in.

Unfortunately Australians are in general pretty racist. What do I do about it? Confront people if I think it’s worth the argument, or just shake my head in disappointment and remember that person isn’t worth my time anymore.

Just call it out wherever you see it. Don't be that person that smiles and nods along. You don't have to be a dickhead about it. Just point it out and make it clear what it is then move on.

Start a type of swear jar. Every time they say something racist, you put a buck in the jar. Put a sign on it saying donations bare going to the most hard core indigenous rebellious political group you can find.

I'm an Ashkenazi Jew and white-passing. If I'm not wearing my kippah and tsitsis, people can't really tell that I'm Jewish from my look, so they would say all sorts of things about people. I've always found racism and other prejudices to be wrong and always speak up. We weren't raised to have such hatred in our hearts - even against those who have wronged us. I'd rather be alone than hang out with racists.

I think as a kind of preventative measure (before it gets to conflict), it's important to have conversations regarding marginalised groups and provide empathetic perspective. If there's recent news regarding a group of people or you see a group of people, start discourse. I'll discuss politics at work based on news e.g. expressing upset at a topic (such as Aboriginal deaths in custody) and exploring the ways that lead to such horrific circumstances. People are more likely to accept new information when it's not based in conflict and will generally explore ideas or themes that are in their space. In the workplace is hard. I'm lucky in that my workplace is incredibly diverse and so it's fairly rare for staff to be overtly racist, at least in the work setting where I interact with them. It definitely comes up with patients a lot, though. It can be difficult terrain to maintain professionalism and a "therapeutic relationship" in. I usually try to diffuse or disagree in a non-harsh way with some kind of indisputable fact, if it continues I simply end the conversation by stating I won't discuss it further then casually redirecting the conversation. Example from the other day: Patient: I hate being in hospital. All these Indian nurses are everywhere, they don't speak English and they just chat all the time. You can't understand them at all. Me: It's actually part of the registration process as a health professional to speak English (this conversation unfortunately happens a lot, alternately I sometimes say "Nurse X/the nurses on last night actually speak more than 3 languages! I would never be able to do that, isn't that great?") Patient: Oh you know what I mean though. They're everywhere and you can't understand anything they say. They always- Me: You're barking up the wrong tree for this conversation, mate (alternate: I'm not sure this conversation is appropriate/I don't agree/I actually a lot of respect for my colleagues). How's the pain in your leg? The key is to not be overly emotional or aggressive and be firm with your stance I think.

I usually will die on that hill, but in my bubble it's mostly microaggressions, and when you challenge them people usually get this moment of "oh yeah, that's a biased thing to say" and they feel bad about it. If it's anything specific about Asian people I go absolutely deadpan and just flatly say "My brother-in-law is Chinese." That embarrasses people and shuts them up immediately.

Talk about your friends who are from different backgrounds and hopefully people stop saying things, at least in your presence. You won’t fix anything larger than that.

I think there's levels. if it's (potentially innocent) misinformation (eg 'all the benefits they get') I patiently and carefully address it. if it's identifiable propaganda of organised race hate, I loudly denounce and dismiss it; zero tolerance. shame. make the speaker uncomfortable. nazism and white supremacism are real threats and we all have a responsibility to help stamp them out. if it's more like a poor-taste joke, it kinda depends on the crowd. My preference is not responding. stone face. no appreciation, no reaction. If I'm worried that no-one realises a line was crossed, I might say 'not funny'. But there are certain settings where I just let it slide. eg friends who are very happily married into other cultures might make a racist joke dripping in irony. They don't mean hate, and no one in hearing range would imagine they do. ​ >I’m in heavy industry and not a day goes by without someone saying something racist oh, wait, hang on: this is different. I never encounter bigotry at work, but I certainly do encounter many Bad Opinions that lead me to bite my tongue, cos I don't want to win an argument and lose the job. I had a few mates employed on a multi-year major construction project that had a huge workforce with a lot of turnover. I sat in on a deep conversation they had about how to manage the constant barrage of homophobia and racism they encountered on the job. Basically, they both decided to paint a target on their backs and have no mates at work for the 12 months of the project. Based on their conversation, I would not have advised them of this conclusion, but I certainly respected it. It made their lives at work very difficult. Suffice to say, I'm sure that not everyone who tolerates this BS at work is happy about it.

Ignore it, I once got a bit annoyed that someone used the word ‘negro’ Now it’s used by the same bloke every other day (we live in a regional town and have barely any need to talk about people of African decent) But I figure it’s to get a rise out me so they can have an argument about it. Racists are just miserable people who need someone to project there misery onto, I enjoy knowing this man is miserable

What’s the point having 90% of those friends if those 90% conflict with your moral compass? If those friends are actually racist then why would you want to maintain that?

By cutting the racist out of my life. Also by not going too far into reddit comments

I mostly hear “lazy white cunt” or “typical white behaviour” at my work place. Not really sure how to feel about it. Previous work places had a guy whose nickname was wog but he didn’t seem to mind.

It’s Australian culture to hang shit on people. I don’t agree with being racist at all, but it all comes down to intent. I am aboriginal myself and I find jokes at my culture funny, I also hang shit on my self and I think most people know being racist to be mean is invalid stereotyping, it comes down to individuals and guess what? Everyone is fucked, especially me . It’s nothing but jokes and fun to poke fun at each other in a nice way, don’t take life too seriously, have a laugh. Now if someone is using racism to degrade you, that’s where you have an opportunity to teach them a life lesson in any way you see fit.

Hi, Asian here. I mostly just join in, quip back and have a laugh. Unless they're being serious, but thankfully most people with five brain cells can tell 9/10 and the 10% of the time I can't tell doesn't really bother me because I know they're an idiot. Having moved to the city now though people get offended on my behalf for me now which is both annoying and funny. Most of my friends will lean into our hardline parents good at math heritage for a joke, and it's funny seeing specifically white people be taken aback, being unsure how to respond.

I decided 13 years ago after arguing with my boomer in-laws about how offensive black face is, that I am no longer going to engage stupid, ignorant or racist people anymore. It’s impossible to get across to people who are not capable of understanding nuances or people who are very thinned skinned, about racist stereotypes or attitudes. Like their brains just don’t work that way. I’m done with it.

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I can relate in your frustration

I hate it. It makes my blood boil. It’s especially hard as I’m in a customer facing role at my work which the public seems to think means they can dump their stupid fucking thoughts and ideas onto me. The Voice really brought them out too. I just said “I don’t discuss contentious issues at work”.

I think that’s an appropriate response for sure.

I called out someone I know recently, told them they were being racist & they just agreed that, yes, indeed they are racist. Not sure where else to go with that.

Yeah I’ve had this happen a couple times. Some people I work with display actual pride when confronted, it’s a large part of their entire persona.

"That's not something to be proud of."

I'm ATSI, among many, many other things. So are a couple of my mates. Also got a Kiwi and a Maori. We all crack jokes at each other's expense, race included. We don't care, it strengthens our bonds. But we know if someone is out of the loop, that behaviour doesn't fly. Especially in a workplace or educational environment, that's not fuckin ok. The best of friendships always start out with piss taking, unless one side takes it seriously, then you know not to piss take again.

Any time someone tells a racist joke I act as if I don’t get it. So I ask them to explain it. How is it funny? Etc. Throwing it back on them generally makes it them squirm and realise I don’t share their racism. Plus it embarrasses them.

I saw a Canadian ad campaign around “don’t be *that* guy”. I think that’s an easy way of calling out crap in a casual setting. Someone says something racist: “oh come on, man, don’t be that guy. Don’t be that guy who says racist shit.”

Not to scare you, but 90%+ of the global population is like this, only small pockets of predominantly Western countries are not, and even then it’s mostly the left leaning prople in those countries. People are hard wired to have an ingroup preference for their own race, so groups will form based on race (prison gangs, school groups, suburbs, etc) and there will an always be an us vs them element to this. Im not justifying or condoning any of their behaviour, but just putting it into context that other racial groups will be making just as many racial based comments amongst themselves.

There’s a 100% chance in threads like this that someone makes the point you just made. I can’t wrap my head around it - yes, it’s essentially true that racism exists everywhere, but what substantive contribution does that make to this topic? It changes nothing about our country’s problem with racism, it has zero impact on the people in this thread experiencing it, and provides no guidance to OP’s question of how best to handle it when it happens.

I'm half filo half Kiwi with a bit of Scottish and Welsh thrown in there too but born and raised in Australia by Australians. Grew up in a very white community and became very desensitized to racism, wasn't until I was older I realised how casually racist I was and we Australians are... But I will say 90% of the racism Ive experienced never has any malice behind it, they're always either having a laugh/banter or are ignorant and uneducated. The small amount of times I've experienced genuine hatred because of my skin colour/looks/race is less than 10 and each time I've just turned the other way and moved on. Apart from the most recent time. I had a very elderly lady, who had a very strong eastern European accent, pull up in her car as I was waiting for my dog to do his business on the sidewalk, tell me that I should never have been allowed into this country. Let me tell you something, that was one of the first times I experienced true rage, I saw red, turned towards her and yelled a bunch of atrocities at her which ended with me yelling, 'Get the fuck out of here you racist old cunt'. As she drove off I turned around and everyone was looking then after a brief pause they continued about there day haha As much as I don't condone my reaction, FUCK IT FELT GOOD to have that release. Anyway yes Australians are racist but we mean no harm 90% of the time haha

But the harm is defined by the other end of the racist comment, you can't define how other people will feel if you say something "funny" about their heritage/looks.

I've never hung out with any racist cunts, choose your friends better.

I've worked more than 20 years in blue collar industries. Yes I've seen some racism, but it very rare in my experience. Maybe because most of the people I've worked with aren't white. Heck, the most blatant racism example I can think of was against me at a certain cardboard manufacturing facility in Sydney where I was literally the only Australian out of 50 or so people on the shift. Honestly, if it's as common as you say among your circle, maybe it's time to f8nd a new circle.

Easier said than done in my current situation but thank you for your reply. Having a larger mix of people would definitely help in a workplace to combat racism/xenophobia. Unfortunately right now my workplace is very much lacking that so it’s more of an echo chamber of old dudes spouting the same crap.

Ignore it If they would stop being your friends because of it, then they weren't really your friends to begin with

Idk if this is js a thing in schools, but I can't go through 1 day without hearing someone use the nslur as a derogatory term to another kid. But the thing is, no one in my school is of dark complexion, and 99% of the school is Asian (i.e south east eastern). Anyway, racist jokes are thrown around every 2 minutes but they're taken as a 'joke' and no one takes actual offense unless they escalate it. Im hearing ppl saying to Viet kids 'boat people', Chinese 'chinks', Koreans 'kimchis' and also calling someone Cambodian (probably used because they are usually the darkest out of Eastern Asians).

If it's a friend, I'd try have a conversation with them about it. From past conversations it goes two ways; either they gaslight you and double down on it, or they come around. For the most part, most people I've been friends with are reasonable and come around, it's just engrained in media and culture and they don't even really know they're doing it, it's just a plain old joke to them like a "your mom" joke. However, if they're of the former probably best to get new friends. Fortunately most friends I've had have come around. If it's a passerby/coworker just try your best to ignore it, you won't be able to even have a conversation with them most of the time unless you're on friend level. Gotten to the point where I'm semi numb to it, but it still grinds my gears when a coworker or something talks to me to me like it's not real or I've got a chip on my shoulder. A person of brown complexion myself I once had my house bricked and side of the house set alight for... just that. I still get searched every single time in an Australian Airport, without fail. Even if I've been in a group of lots of white folk. That's 22 times, sure doesn't feel "random." Yet with some of these people, you mention this and they say stuff like "it's all in your head" "you just have a chip on your shoulder" as if there weren't other witness and what not. But even that I think is the same problem as friends making casual jokes; they just don't see it.

I find it very comforting that you’ve had success with your friends. Thank you for sharing.

I call them racists. They usually say they aren’t, they just say racist shit. Which I remind them, is racist. At this point they get a bit tetchy.

Well, they often lead with, "I'm not racist, BUT, this whole race something or other"

Call it the fuck out. Same with sexism, ablism, classism. If you don't call out a person for their -isms, they inflict that belief on their kids and it becomes generational. If you don't call out colleagues it becomes accepted practice and premeates the workplace. Needs to be stamped out by being called out. Start with: "That bit right there is the racist part" Don't blanket someone with a racist tag, call out their racist phrases and make them think.

Ha!. During Covid peak time, I had to put two blokes that I picked in my Uber, cover their face. The ride was just five mins. In between the covering (he was trying to cover with his t-shirt) ) one of them (I believe a samoan) made a religious remark in a bad taste. Even his white friend went , “now why did you say that ??”.. I said, “you know what, this ride is not worth the fare..get out!”…they were both drunk and not many Ubers were going around and started protesting. One was like , “cmon you are making too much of it”, but then I got a bit pissed and said ‘GTF out of my car!.’ And they got out and slammed the door real hard saying F words on top of their lungs. They did get reported to Uber , but yeah some idiots do go around.