My workplace doesn't pay me any bonus or pay rise for outstanding work. So I simply have my "job" and my side hustle/renovations.
I remember earning $300k+ for my employer and earning 35k a year when I started working professionally. It is not that I am incapable of doing better, but if I never see the rewards, why bother?
Businesses are happy to talk about their return on their investment, but where is mine. The only exception I have is if there are promotion opportunities, but even then I have seen people slave away and never receive one.
Was thinking why don't they offer incentives to finish these projects the current model is broken.
There is no incentive to finish them for those involved most likely redundant offer a real incentive to finish them.
It is a big problem in society in general. Industries/Organisations get created to tackle a problem in time; and then no one wants to terminate them once their usefulness withers.
You can't blame people for wanting a stable job.
You should start your own business in your chosen profession, pay over market to employees and adopt a generous bonus structure.
Take some actual risk, rather than whining about the company and salary package you negotiated where everything you make is pure profit.
Depends on the business overheads. In my business, one person (depending on their role) won’t cover costs of a project at $300k.
Now with prices going up across the board, you’ll need to earn $330k to justify your initial pay without the increase.
Unless you’re a large company, Australia has made it impossible to succeed with all the red tape, employee payouts, tax etc etc. It’s great for the worker, great to keep large companies in check but it stifles growth for the small guys
It really isn’t though. Australia’s issue is in fact overpay for quality of work. Labour is so expensive here we struggle to remain competitive on certain things.
We’ve become an insulated mini economy mess.
Wages too high for the quality. Housing too expensive.
Wages HAVE to be high because the cost of living is out of control. I agree it's an issue with the economy.
An average wage hardly pays enough to pay bills. Nothing left for fun. Why would anyone work hard if they only get paid enough to survive
It’d be worthwhile having a look at how Aussie cities compare to European cities
Then look at what they get paid compared to what we do. We’re doing plenty fine. Expectations of what people should have for a first home here are some of the most ridiculous in the world.
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
Oi skinny penis.
Maybe do some research before spinning your wheels - it's been known for a long time now that productivity has vastly outpaced workers compensation.
This example uses the USA, but the principal applies globally to any county that has experienced a significant uptick in the adoption of technology/automation.
Why work hard any more? You either get shit on by management at the earliest convenience, made redundant, or given more responsibility for the same pay.
Companies fuck you at every level and have for years and now we are surprised no one gives a fuck?
How the fuck can we be productive when being productive gets you sweet fuck all? Can't afford a home, Can't afford kids, Can't afford the groceries, Can't even afford the fucking rent.
How the fuck can employers expect more from us when our wages won't even cover the basic necessities for living for fucks sake.
Either pay more or shut the fuck up.
Low productivity is a direct result of shit wages. Nothing more, Nothing less. Most people don't mind their jobs. It's the pay that sucks and usually management on top.
People work hard, get rewarded with more work and no payrise.
Literally me right now. I have been consistently getting 'raised the bar' at quaterly performance reviews for an year yet there's always some budget strain to warrant a promotion. Meanwhile there is just enough budget for a shit new hire.
Fuck productivity. OP is a flog.
The best part is that now you'll be expected to consistently meet that higher level of performance into the future or you'll be seen as slacking, and then also be resented by the rest of your colleagues because then management wants them to work as hard as you, as they've already checked out years ago and are doing the bare minimum after coming to this realisation themselves
This. When you outperform one year. It becomes the base line for the next. Always stay in the middle. Don't fight for payrises. Go somewhere else for one.
I feel productively has outpaced wage growth for two decades now. There needs to be a redress and not one that happens by chance. The fair work commission need to hand out widespread wage increases so we have the same buying power as two decades ago.
Profits haven’t declined along with wages, there are some employers out there surviving because wages have declined. We need to have a period where businesses unsustainable with living wages fall by the wayside. Workers have been falling by the wayside for far too long and it’s no longer sustainable.
Just remember that psychosocial hazards are now part of the WHS act. So that whole beast your employees, drive them hard. ‘Treat em mean keep em keen, only winners work here’ mentality is a large liability now.
Same as holding people’s livelihoods over the heads if they don’t over perform past their agreed duties.
Most of the management and higher level staff haven’t kept track of that, and it’s important to enforce it so that it doesn’t get dismissed as woke shit and the human part of the workforce gets treated worse.
This is coming from mid to upper management. Also remember it’s not just actual psychological harm, it’s ‘real or perceived’ this seems to get missed even more by the higher levels, and I get surprised pikachu faces when I remind them that I keep them informed of everything because they can come to gaol with me for 5 years (possibly 10 soon in NSW for more serious offences now)
OP should take a trip back in time to the days of the paper-based office. Things were a lot cruisier back then by and large. Modern IT systems have sped up the hamster wheel significantly.
This is an important topic that needs exploring more.
With AI technology improvements going in the same direction it’s been going for the last 2 years, our productivity will sky rocket for many jobs.
Will this then raise the bar even further in terms of what we are supposed to achieve in a day? The cynical side of me says that AI will not present a way for us to gain more time back but increase demands on productivity. Hope I’m wrong
The more technology improves human lives and productivity, the more these cocksucking CEO's will demand from the population. They will absorb any gains in time, efficiency, productivity and profits, and still demand 38+ hours each week with no pay rises.
CEO PAY HAS GONE UP 1460% FOR FUCKS SAKE. POINT THE FINGER AT THE RIGHT CULPRITS.
There will be a honeymoon period where those who are good with AI will get work done quickly and efficiently in a short amount of time. Then management will catch on and set those KPIs to the whole company which will mean those who aren’t efficient with AI will be unable to keep up.
It’s already happening with a lot of CRM type systems
It is already going this way, many new positions require you to be "proficient/advanced in AI integration/implementation" or are simply replacing jobs with a prompt engineer, especially in graphic design, consulting, law, accounting, and coding where AI can already do incredible work
Upwards mobility.
There is none in this country.
We can’t afford a house anyway so who cares if we get promoted and earn $150,000 when we can do the minimum and earn $110,000.
The extra effort is no longer worth it.
Politicians will wonder why the country is falling apart and all the best workers are moving overseas but then continue to prop up the property ponzi.
I work in tech and I can tell you that people still put in minimum effort despite getting paid in the top few %. People work the minimum they can get away with, which became a low bar after remote work.
Go have a read of the posts on the teachers subreddit. They are truly horrific. A teacher was saying they asked their grade 6 kids to reflect on the last time that they had conflict with another person, and what steps they took to resolve that conflict. The teachers said half the kids turned to google to try and retrieve the answer from the internet. They couldn't comprehend that they had to reflect on their own experiences to think about an answer.
I honestly think our society will scarcely function by 2050.
A pay rise of 10% is really 6% after taxes. A 10% increase in inflation is actually more than 10%. The tax system is broken, why am I incentivised to do anything more than minimum?
Never before have so few done so much, while being looked upon by so many.
What I mean is the ones that do most of the work, despite all the technological wonders that allow them to do so much, there are now an army of people watching over them.
I wonder how many people here could honestly ask themselves if their job really is necessary to society. Looking at WW2 lists of excepted occupations is an eye opener. Probably 90% of people in Australia would not make that list these days because the country would go along just fine without that occupation.
It's kind of true but kind of not, reality is that really big organisations have a lot of jobs that are very low input/appear very unproductive. Obviously management is trying to 'lean' these out as much as possible, but at this stage seems impossible to do.
Thing is that in the end large organisations are just so much more efficient than smaller ones that the excess is barely a blip on the radar
the world would do just fine without the "academics"
but not so much without the builders, truck drivers, nurses, labourers, factory workers, etc etc etc, (i.e. the real workers)
Yea wonder who built the site and device you are using to sprout that nonsense.
Top Engineers and scientists are far more important than the rest, Afghanistan has all the jobs you mentioned but not doing just fine
Who designed all the shit the builders build? Who researched all the tech that went into that truck? Who developed the materials that get manufactured on that factory line? Who made sure that the building the labourers build doesn't fall over?
This is a brain-dead take. Both are necessary; without the "real workers" nothing gets done, but without the "smart" workers the labourers are just sitting around, waiting for something to make.
i didn't mean without education - trades are technically academics too then
i was referring to the pompous twats who like to call themselves "academics" and my point was that society would easily continue to function without them
Society literally relied on schools being open during lockdown for parents to go to work, and pushed to the very last moments to close them (while still being open to parents who needed it).
Good luck with this world without teachers.
>I haven't seen a workplace in a long, long time now where 90% of employees are trying to do anything other than scrap by and do the absolute bare minimum that qualifies as "enough" to not get noticed by management/HR and possibly be reprimanded.
This is how the employer/employee relationship works exactly. The employee does as little as possible for as much compensation as possible while the employer tries to get most out of the employee for the least amount of compensation, idk how you are surprised by this dynamic. Why would an employee do more than what is required? The employee won't pay them more just because they feel like it.
Employee/Employer relationships traditionally worked by negotiation of service in exchange for a fee (or other good). Key word negotiation.
The incentive misalignment happens when there is little negotiation and/or one side of that equation isn’t balanced.
In modern times employers hold the balance of power in dictating terms and so the right equilibrium can’t be found for both parties. Hence the inefficiencies you point out. Worth saying that just because it’s the way it currently works, doesn’t mean it’s right or the only way.
What you are describing is union workplaces. Why would anyone on an EBA do more than the bloke next to him when they will get paid the same no matter what?
What you described is the relationship in union workplaces on EBAs. You don't get paid on your merit, you get paid according to the EBA and that is it. Why would an employee so more than is required?
What are you working for? Can’t own a house, rents out of control, too expensive to have kids, 20 dollar beers, the list goes on, and you expect people to work harder for the same money! Tell them they're dreaming!
Corporations and there boomer lapdogs made it so that it’s nearly impossible to escape the rat race
Look at how easy boomers could start a small business and become wealthy
Now you are going against mega corps and gov red tape
Was a show on the ABC that said boomers paid 3x income for a house and had free uni. While people today pay 8x income for a house, double the taxes and uni is $50k+
Productivity isn't declining though even though wages are stagnating.
What's needed though is more unions in the workplace so employees are able to get a larger share of the pie.
i'm curious to know what job you do, seeing as you're apparently across many different sectors/industries?
>Regardless of whether we're talking about blue collar, white collar, low paid, high paid, different industries... the burn-out, the absolute decimation of employee morale via non-existent wage growth and hostile work environments
Yeah all I've taken away from this is that either op and their colleagues are all lazy OR op has a theory with nothing to back it up and is just completely talking out their ass.
Either way they should probably sort their life out and find something fulfilling to do with their time.
Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the outcome!
There is no incentive for employees to go above being fired, all it does is make them more vulnerable to exploitation by employers by overworking them with no pay increase.
If I automate my job, I don't get to work on other things. I simply get fired. So the good, long term employees end up being people who manually and slowly work.
It's all about population control, the more time you spend slaving your guts out to pay for the cost of living, the less time you have time for anything else like revolting against the gov
>the more time you spend slaving your guts out to pay for the cost of living, the less time you have time for anything else
And those workers will subsequently value convenience and pay more for it when you're working long hours with little free time, allowing businesses like fast food and delivery to proliferate much more readily
You are a genius have been thinking and seeing this for myself and wondering what the hell is going on.
Yet big corporations carry on with their same rubbish preaching their shite.
Where does it end as you say in corruption and maybe jail for many.
There’s a big difference between working to “get ahead” and working to “survive”.
Working harder to get ahead usually means factors outside of work are ok, and you can see the reward for extra effort paid off in additional pay, better conditions, promotion AND better quality of life.
We are willing to put up with that extra stress at work knowing generally we will get ahead and have a better quality of life outside of work.
However, when working harder doesn’t result in extra financial benefit, with below inflation wage increases for over a decade now; when it doesn’t result in increased quality of life outside of work why go the extra mile?
So many of us are literally trying to survive and put a roof over our heads. That’s a massive stress in of itself. None of us are equiped to deal with 24/7 stress that includes threats to our basic needs like food and housing, AND to deal with the stress that comes with extra work.
When the inflation and housing situation eases at some point ( I don’t know when) then maybe productivity will improve. Until then, employers get used to workers only doing what they are required to do. Beyond that, society is not rewarding us with increased quality of life as an incentive to get ahead at work.
Maybe because it just doesn't fkn pay off any more and it doesn't feel like it matters. Doesn't matter whether I put in 110% or 10% I'm still getting paid the same at the end of the day and it's not fucking enough
Is this what they call quiet quitting? Not actually quitting but quietly working to rule and not doing anything else, all due to businesses not caring about the people that work for them/lip service and caring more about investors and profit
Save rent by living in these free houses!
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/the-sydney-suburbs-where-one-in-five-homes-is-not-lived-in-full-time-20240613-p5jlmr.html
I think people misunderstand. We have a small number of industries supporting our population in what most nations would call luxury. Officially well over 90% of us are officially in the top 1% of the world. Our poor can buy a car, buy clothes, hunger is rare. Homelessness still rare but increasing with falling productivity.
Many city people are fighting desperately to shut down what little industry we have left. Factories, refineries, mines, these are productive. And they are still closing.Now even the housing sector is shutting down. Instead we are turning into a nation of unproductive office manager paper pushers.
So what we used to make, we now buy from overseas. That's falling productivity.
What we need is to making stuff again.
while you are correct with your concerns about manufacturing, does it not occur to you that mines, refineries, agriculture etc need 'paper pushers' to run them?
There are other industries like education which are necessary and Australia does well.
I think its gross that employers are pushing workers back to the office from home so that real estate companies dont lose profits, meanwhile those workers struggle to pay for that train ticket
We have never been busier or more efficient it's just that they are hitting the wall of what humans are capable of at such an insulting slave based wage
I'm going to peg this to what seems like an overly simple route cause: the current (ie The last 5-10 years) generation of HR (people and culture) graduates aren't being educated to successfully motivate people.
You can see. It in any corporation, cumbersome performance reviews that are not linked to pay, bonus structures that aren't guaranteed, "work place culture" that is stated but never reinforced.
Current HR best practice seems to be to say a lot about being a great place to work while ignoring the reasons people actually are unhappy - low wages and shitty day to day work outcomes.
For reference I love my job and want to do well at it, but the way corps go about incentivising me to care usually achieves the exact opposite.
Yup. Am one such person who has burnt out so hard because of societal pressures to be successful, follow that grindset and disregard every aspect of myself that screams for rest, that it's caught up with me and I'm forced to drop to part time hours and live paycheck to paycheck so that i don't commit sudoku. Barely surviving this shit.
Stop promoting from within and this is what happens.
So many industries just churn through staff and hire externally to replace rather than creating a culture and promoting from within. How can you blame the employees that get overlooked for going "tools down" when they aren't rewarded for their productivity.
All organisations should prioritise internal promotion over external hires where they can, this is how you create a culture and how you encourage the people you have to strive to improve. It aligns business and individual incentives, which as we know is how you yield the best results.
It isn't rocket science.
Even if you aren't having cost of living issues, every piece of "media" 24/7 is saying you are, it's not long till your actually convinced you are having cost of living issues.
I find my money goes further when my TV is turned off.
I have friends I see weekly who for the most part are not suffering cost of living issues of any kind, yet now at least once a week I hear from one of them.
"Gee cost of living pressures are tough"
Yeh I get everything is more expensive, but this over saturation of "cost of living pressures" have convinced even people not experiencing them to think they are experiencing them..
Puzzling.
My real estate does not like it when I request the maintenance guy brings a copy of his police check certificate for me to check prior to allowing him entry to fix the property (as they insist on letting him in when I am not home)
Can't even find respectable maintenance people anymore
I think the problem is that everybody knows that even if they put their all into it - their job isn't actually *productive*. I work as a specialist in keyboard machinery and PDF/Excel file production and modification (which is to say, I don't really make anything). There was a time I worked for a small start up alcohol distillery bottling and making niche and tasty Australian made and owned spirits. I worked hard there, the owner even made a comment on how I was "going for employee of the month" the joke being there was only 3 of us there including the owner and my mate/manager/
But I **PRODUCED** something. I started with raw materials worth hell maybe $5 or less (per bottle) inside a moonshiners shed basically. At the end of the day having finished hand bottling, sealing, labelling, packing and stacking. The end of the day I could look and see how I had **PRODUCED VALUE**. What I started the day with was worth $30 a box to a pallet stacked high with each box now worth $300.
Then there were market days where I'd help set up a table, draw a cute little cafe style menus advertising our wares and prices in fancy cursive script. Then spent the day giving out samples and encouraging people to taste our free samples. Of course occasionally I'd pour myself a shot or two of my particular favourites, **ENJOYING THE FRUIT** (flavoured booze) **OF MY LABOUR**.
Customers would buy some and there was a cash discount and **I COULD LITERALLY TOUCH THE PROFITS OF MY WORK AS THE MONEY CAME IN**. Well my bosses money. But that was so satisfying. How can you expect anyone to try and be productive wen they know their job is pointless?
What is keyboard machinery?
I get that you are disconnected from the value you create. But consider...
Those excel and pdfs are used by someone to make business decisions. That could improve things by a few percent, saving millions, saving time and energy.
Can't talk about what I do but let's just say that any excess value I produce goes into a foreign companies share price and I am paid by you... the taxpayer
Sounds like you work somewhere shit. The people I work with are legends and we all go above and beyond when the situation requires, and no not for free.
No one has any money to buy nice things at the end of the week. What’s to look forward too? When will the people vote out the 2 parties that have screwed this country m?
I have to say it's really hard to stay motivated when you are struggling and all your life goals seem unattainable, like owning a house, starting a family etc.
My energy levels are dropping and I am feeling more and more hopeless/depressed
I’m dreading my annual pay review. I have a figure in mind, and it’s not even an unreasonable expectation. I doubt I’ll get it.
Work morale where I work, is so low, I see my colleagues at their desks in tears. I too cry some days.
We aren’t even able to work at a slow pace, as we’ll drown. And annual leave is hardly a relaxing time, as no one covers workload or each other’s inbox,
No one has time to.
We’re just slaves in business attire.
Add being neurodivergent in to the mix and they exploit you even more, whilst doing absolutely nothing to support you.
At least it’s pushed me to go and study economics…
Why would one want to overwork themselves for what is essentially peanuts? I left working for wages years ago and have been a contractor ever since, and that's the sole reason I've been able to keep my head above water. Wages do not cover what it costs to live. It'd be better for the government to set in and force the price gouging large corporations to lower their profits by selling their products at a more reasonable rate than to increase the wages for people.
In my current job, I have nowhere to go. Get given unrealistic targets (sales and revenue) and my job is now split over 2 departments where now 40% of my time is not dedicated to my job description.
Tried to get an electrical apprenticeship, applied to literally every job for 8months but haven't even received a call let alone interview. I'm guessing I'm not considered as I'm mature aged and dont have the resources to do a pre-apprenticeship (can't take 3 months off work while having to help support wife and 2x kids)
Applied for new job in field. Got it. 20k/a pay rise + bonuses with clear path to promotion with more pay.
This is my recent experience in the Australian Job market, fft.
Yep, but what can you expect when the social contract is completely broken?
A young Sydneysider can't even dream of one day owning a house through their own hard work and saving. If they ever get a house, it will be because their own parents drop dead and they inherit a $1M 1960's fibro shack. Why would young Aussies work hard when this is their reality?
Now let's consider the somewhat older Aussies in the 40 to 55 bracket. Chances are they bought a house before 2010 and they are now sitting on at least $500K in home equity, and in many cases, much more. So why would they want to work hard when their house earns more each year than they do?
As for the boomers, they just want their easy life to continue; most are already in retirement.
That's reality in Australia; whatever social contract existed is dead and buried. If I'm young, I'm not going to waste my life supporting Boomers (F'em) let them rot in hell. If I'm middle-aged, I've also done well out of housing, and don't need to worry about work or the future. Worst comes to worst; I sell my house and move to Bali. #madeintheshade.
Maybe you should be asking yourself if Productivity has meaning without an accross the board comittment to a social contract.
Not sure what OP's trying to say except maybe their own experience has been a lot of bad luck.
But as far as corpo culture, that comes from the top. And the top are basically the same inbred born to rule private school gronks no matter what the company.
I just realised something from this post, I'd like to thank everyone for fucking off at work! It's created customers for me that jump hand over fist to make sure I have availability to service their needs and I've been able to increase my charge out rate to $175/hr + gst!
It truely isn't hard to shine in this market!
Keep up the great work everyone, it's appreciated!
Fuck me, go see a doctor.
I got a great coffee the other day and my car fixed by a fantastic mechanic.
A cynic would think this post is a psyop or something to just make everyone believe there is nothing to live for.
Such drivel.
You should probably see a doctor before it's too late. It's not that there's not legitimate things to complain about, there's things to complain about in literally every country. Ultimately you aren't owed a better or easier life than anyone who came before you. I think you can be pretty confident of one thing though, and that's that life will never get any easier for someone that's made being a cynical twat their entire personality.
There also seems tobe more and more people who simply arent suited to work even menial jobs. Some people literally cannot stack shelves properly from the look of some coles and woolies Ive been to lately.
Our average IQ in aus is going down over time so the number of people who can be of any use in the workforce is going to go down as well in line with that.
All these comments make me sad for Australia. It has become acceptable to do take money for doing nothing. No wonder the quality of goods and services are so poor now.
Yup as a result I also think we are an overpaid society relative to what we produce. The workforce of Australia demands an upper/middle class lifestyle but contributes what in most economies would be poverty class wages. This is why immigration and offshoring will be used to plug the gap. It’s not the employers want to pay less, it’s that they are not getting enough value to pay more
My days. Listen to this guy " its not that employers don't want to pay less". Meanwhile place i worked at made nearly half the company redundant just before EOFY so they can avoid paying bonuses AND so they can pump up their stock by showing 'cost savings'. Those jobs went to India btw. CTO got fat bonus for it too.
You're so out of touch with reality. Its fucking unbelievable.
Underpay and over work staff for years this is what happens
My workplace doesn't pay me any bonus or pay rise for outstanding work. So I simply have my "job" and my side hustle/renovations. I remember earning $300k+ for my employer and earning 35k a year when I started working professionally. It is not that I am incapable of doing better, but if I never see the rewards, why bother? Businesses are happy to talk about their return on their investment, but where is mine. The only exception I have is if there are promotion opportunities, but even then I have seen people slave away and never receive one.
My workplace froze wages and capped our pay adjustments at below inflation for years. Like hell I'm working just as hard for less money.
Was thinking why don't they offer incentives to finish these projects the current model is broken. There is no incentive to finish them for those involved most likely redundant offer a real incentive to finish them.
It is a big problem in society in general. Industries/Organisations get created to tackle a problem in time; and then no one wants to terminate them once their usefulness withers. You can't blame people for wanting a stable job.
You should start your own business in your chosen profession, pay over market to employees and adopt a generous bonus structure. Take some actual risk, rather than whining about the company and salary package you negotiated where everything you make is pure profit.
Depends on the business overheads. In my business, one person (depending on their role) won’t cover costs of a project at $300k. Now with prices going up across the board, you’ll need to earn $330k to justify your initial pay without the increase. Unless you’re a large company, Australia has made it impossible to succeed with all the red tape, employee payouts, tax etc etc. It’s great for the worker, great to keep large companies in check but it stifles growth for the small guys
Maybe all companies need more managers
they need managers that know how to manage - instead of treating it as a promotional rung
It really isn’t though. Australia’s issue is in fact overpay for quality of work. Labour is so expensive here we struggle to remain competitive on certain things. We’ve become an insulated mini economy mess. Wages too high for the quality. Housing too expensive.
Wages HAVE to be high because the cost of living is out of control. I agree it's an issue with the economy. An average wage hardly pays enough to pay bills. Nothing left for fun. Why would anyone work hard if they only get paid enough to survive
It’d be worthwhile having a look at how Aussie cities compare to European cities Then look at what they get paid compared to what we do. We’re doing plenty fine. Expectations of what people should have for a first home here are some of the most ridiculous in the world.
Mate many people renting can hardly afford to live. Buying a home is permanently out of reach for more people than ever before
You mean up to 29% wage increases WITHOUT productivity clauses had nothing to do with it ?
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ Oi skinny penis. Maybe do some research before spinning your wheels - it's been known for a long time now that productivity has vastly outpaced workers compensation. This example uses the USA, but the principal applies globally to any county that has experienced a significant uptick in the adoption of technology/automation.
I don't want to make assumptions: is your point here that workers are being paid too much and that's why they are disengaged and unproductive?
You heard the skinny penis, get back to work!
I received a below inflation pay rise or a pay cut. I am duty bound to work less to even things back out.
Same, I am getting paid 10% less than I was 3 years ago. Now I work 30% less.
Why work hard any more? You either get shit on by management at the earliest convenience, made redundant, or given more responsibility for the same pay. Companies fuck you at every level and have for years and now we are surprised no one gives a fuck?
That or they wont promote you because they dont want to find a replacement
How the fuck can we be productive when being productive gets you sweet fuck all? Can't afford a home, Can't afford kids, Can't afford the groceries, Can't even afford the fucking rent. How the fuck can employers expect more from us when our wages won't even cover the basic necessities for living for fucks sake. Either pay more or shut the fuck up. Low productivity is a direct result of shit wages. Nothing more, Nothing less. Most people don't mind their jobs. It's the pay that sucks and usually management on top. People work hard, get rewarded with more work and no payrise.
Literally me right now. I have been consistently getting 'raised the bar' at quaterly performance reviews for an year yet there's always some budget strain to warrant a promotion. Meanwhile there is just enough budget for a shit new hire. Fuck productivity. OP is a flog.
Me 2. Passed up on promotions because im too valuable in my current role. Shit pay, no bonus. No incentive to work hard. No point.
entire company got 1% raises and my boss literally told me there was no point in trying hard here. Just do the minimum.
The best part is that now you'll be expected to consistently meet that higher level of performance into the future or you'll be seen as slacking, and then also be resented by the rest of your colleagues because then management wants them to work as hard as you, as they've already checked out years ago and are doing the bare minimum after coming to this realisation themselves
This. When you outperform one year. It becomes the base line for the next. Always stay in the middle. Don't fight for payrises. Go somewhere else for one.
they won't though, they'll just bring in more immigration and replace you with people that don't know better yet
I feel productively has outpaced wage growth for two decades now. There needs to be a redress and not one that happens by chance. The fair work commission need to hand out widespread wage increases so we have the same buying power as two decades ago. Profits haven’t declined along with wages, there are some employers out there surviving because wages have declined. We need to have a period where businesses unsustainable with living wages fall by the wayside. Workers have been falling by the wayside for far too long and it’s no longer sustainable.
Covid was our “black plague” where wages started to rise to the correct level. Instead of letting that happen corp and gov opened the flood gates
Productivity has outpaced wage growth since the 70's. Employers know this. They exploit you thinking that people are just being lazy.
Just remember that psychosocial hazards are now part of the WHS act. So that whole beast your employees, drive them hard. ‘Treat em mean keep em keen, only winners work here’ mentality is a large liability now. Same as holding people’s livelihoods over the heads if they don’t over perform past their agreed duties. Most of the management and higher level staff haven’t kept track of that, and it’s important to enforce it so that it doesn’t get dismissed as woke shit and the human part of the workforce gets treated worse. This is coming from mid to upper management. Also remember it’s not just actual psychological harm, it’s ‘real or perceived’ this seems to get missed even more by the higher levels, and I get surprised pikachu faces when I remind them that I keep them informed of everything because they can come to gaol with me for 5 years (possibly 10 soon in NSW for more serious offences now)
OP should take a trip back in time to the days of the paper-based office. Things were a lot cruisier back then by and large. Modern IT systems have sped up the hamster wheel significantly.
This is an important topic that needs exploring more. With AI technology improvements going in the same direction it’s been going for the last 2 years, our productivity will sky rocket for many jobs. Will this then raise the bar even further in terms of what we are supposed to achieve in a day? The cynical side of me says that AI will not present a way for us to gain more time back but increase demands on productivity. Hope I’m wrong
The more technology improves human lives and productivity, the more these cocksucking CEO's will demand from the population. They will absorb any gains in time, efficiency, productivity and profits, and still demand 38+ hours each week with no pay rises. CEO PAY HAS GONE UP 1460% FOR FUCKS SAKE. POINT THE FINGER AT THE RIGHT CULPRITS.
Not even cynical, it’s just the obvious next step.
There will be a honeymoon period where those who are good with AI will get work done quickly and efficiently in a short amount of time. Then management will catch on and set those KPIs to the whole company which will mean those who aren’t efficient with AI will be unable to keep up. It’s already happening with a lot of CRM type systems
It is already going this way, many new positions require you to be "proficient/advanced in AI integration/implementation" or are simply replacing jobs with a prompt engineer, especially in graphic design, consulting, law, accounting, and coding where AI can already do incredible work
Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays.
Upwards mobility. There is none in this country. We can’t afford a house anyway so who cares if we get promoted and earn $150,000 when we can do the minimum and earn $110,000. The extra effort is no longer worth it. Politicians will wonder why the country is falling apart and all the best workers are moving overseas but then continue to prop up the property ponzi.
It's called acting your wage. Minimum wage gets minimum effort, with the amount of effort I put in slowly increasing with compensation.
I work in tech and I can tell you that people still put in minimum effort despite getting paid in the top few %. People work the minimum they can get away with, which became a low bar after remote work.
Go have a read of the posts on the teachers subreddit. They are truly horrific. A teacher was saying they asked their grade 6 kids to reflect on the last time that they had conflict with another person, and what steps they took to resolve that conflict. The teachers said half the kids turned to google to try and retrieve the answer from the internet. They couldn't comprehend that they had to reflect on their own experiences to think about an answer. I honestly think our society will scarcely function by 2050.
What about the kids going through high school that can barely read and write? That’s scary too
I’m a teacher and kids don’t see the point. They know they can do a trade and earn more without much of an education, or get early entry.
A pay rise of 10% is really 6% after taxes. A 10% increase in inflation is actually more than 10%. The tax system is broken, why am I incentivised to do anything more than minimum?
Never before have so few done so much, while being looked upon by so many. What I mean is the ones that do most of the work, despite all the technological wonders that allow them to do so much, there are now an army of people watching over them. I wonder how many people here could honestly ask themselves if their job really is necessary to society. Looking at WW2 lists of excepted occupations is an eye opener. Probably 90% of people in Australia would not make that list these days because the country would go along just fine without that occupation.
lol you should read David Graber's book "Bullshit Jobs"
100%
Did you just deliberately make the case for a UBI or was it accidental?
It's kind of true but kind of not, reality is that really big organisations have a lot of jobs that are very low input/appear very unproductive. Obviously management is trying to 'lean' these out as much as possible, but at this stage seems impossible to do. Thing is that in the end large organisations are just so much more efficient than smaller ones that the excess is barely a blip on the radar
the world would do just fine without the "academics" but not so much without the builders, truck drivers, nurses, labourers, factory workers, etc etc etc, (i.e. the real workers)
The Khmer Rouge took this exact position. It didn’t end well.
Yea wonder who built the site and device you are using to sprout that nonsense. Top Engineers and scientists are far more important than the rest, Afghanistan has all the jobs you mentioned but not doing just fine
Who designed all the shit the builders build? Who researched all the tech that went into that truck? Who developed the materials that get manufactured on that factory line? Who made sure that the building the labourers build doesn't fall over? This is a brain-dead take. Both are necessary; without the "real workers" nothing gets done, but without the "smart" workers the labourers are just sitting around, waiting for something to make.
What about when you need a doctor?
Nurses are academics
i didn't mean without education - trades are technically academics too then i was referring to the pompous twats who like to call themselves "academics" and my point was that society would easily continue to function without them
Who do you think does medical research?
So no more teachers
Society literally relied on schools being open during lockdown for parents to go to work, and pushed to the very last moments to close them (while still being open to parents who needed it). Good luck with this world without teachers.
>I haven't seen a workplace in a long, long time now where 90% of employees are trying to do anything other than scrap by and do the absolute bare minimum that qualifies as "enough" to not get noticed by management/HR and possibly be reprimanded. This is how the employer/employee relationship works exactly. The employee does as little as possible for as much compensation as possible while the employer tries to get most out of the employee for the least amount of compensation, idk how you are surprised by this dynamic. Why would an employee do more than what is required? The employee won't pay them more just because they feel like it.
Employee/Employer relationships traditionally worked by negotiation of service in exchange for a fee (or other good). Key word negotiation. The incentive misalignment happens when there is little negotiation and/or one side of that equation isn’t balanced. In modern times employers hold the balance of power in dictating terms and so the right equilibrium can’t be found for both parties. Hence the inefficiencies you point out. Worth saying that just because it’s the way it currently works, doesn’t mean it’s right or the only way.
Yeah I agree, there could be any number of ways the relationship plays out, this is just the paradigm we're currently in.
What you are describing is union workplaces. Why would anyone on an EBA do more than the bloke next to him when they will get paid the same no matter what?
It's nothing to do with unions. Worker unions exist to advocate for workers, I'm just describing the incentives between employer/employee.
What you described is the relationship in union workplaces on EBAs. You don't get paid on your merit, you get paid according to the EBA and that is it. Why would an employee so more than is required?
It's sad you think this way. There can be a mutually respectful relationship. Good work for good pay. Not just least work for least money
What are you working for? Can’t own a house, rents out of control, too expensive to have kids, 20 dollar beers, the list goes on, and you expect people to work harder for the same money! Tell them they're dreaming!
That's not what I said. I said good work for GOOD money
Sorry replied in the wrong comment
I'm just describing the incentives at work, and how they play out. I'm sorry that market forces sound sad to you.
Corporations and there boomer lapdogs made it so that it’s nearly impossible to escape the rat race Look at how easy boomers could start a small business and become wealthy Now you are going against mega corps and gov red tape Was a show on the ABC that said boomers paid 3x income for a house and had free uni. While people today pay 8x income for a house, double the taxes and uni is $50k+
I think its more like 15x income in Sydney
Productivity isn't declining though even though wages are stagnating. What's needed though is more unions in the workplace so employees are able to get a larger share of the pie.
most people I know are being expected to do more with less staff
Correct. Everything should be cheaper over time as a result.
i'm curious to know what job you do, seeing as you're apparently across many different sectors/industries? >Regardless of whether we're talking about blue collar, white collar, low paid, high paid, different industries... the burn-out, the absolute decimation of employee morale via non-existent wage growth and hostile work environments
Yeah all I've taken away from this is that either op and their colleagues are all lazy OR op has a theory with nothing to back it up and is just completely talking out their ass. Either way they should probably sort their life out and find something fulfilling to do with their time.
yeah. or maybe they should start working as a sub-contractor and see how much money they make if they decide they want to start fucking around
Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the outcome! There is no incentive for employees to go above being fired, all it does is make them more vulnerable to exploitation by employers by overworking them with no pay increase.
If I automate my job, I don't get to work on other things. I simply get fired. So the good, long term employees end up being people who manually and slowly work.
It's all about population control, the more time you spend slaving your guts out to pay for the cost of living, the less time you have time for anything else like revolting against the gov
>the more time you spend slaving your guts out to pay for the cost of living, the less time you have time for anything else And those workers will subsequently value convenience and pay more for it when you're working long hours with little free time, allowing businesses like fast food and delivery to proliferate much more readily
You are a genius have been thinking and seeing this for myself and wondering what the hell is going on. Yet big corporations carry on with their same rubbish preaching their shite. Where does it end as you say in corruption and maybe jail for many.
There’s a big difference between working to “get ahead” and working to “survive”. Working harder to get ahead usually means factors outside of work are ok, and you can see the reward for extra effort paid off in additional pay, better conditions, promotion AND better quality of life. We are willing to put up with that extra stress at work knowing generally we will get ahead and have a better quality of life outside of work. However, when working harder doesn’t result in extra financial benefit, with below inflation wage increases for over a decade now; when it doesn’t result in increased quality of life outside of work why go the extra mile? So many of us are literally trying to survive and put a roof over our heads. That’s a massive stress in of itself. None of us are equiped to deal with 24/7 stress that includes threats to our basic needs like food and housing, AND to deal with the stress that comes with extra work. When the inflation and housing situation eases at some point ( I don’t know when) then maybe productivity will improve. Until then, employers get used to workers only doing what they are required to do. Beyond that, society is not rewarding us with increased quality of life as an incentive to get ahead at work.
when you work hard to get ahead for a long time and see no result, burnout ensues.
Is there any evidence for this? Or just like a vibe?
Sounds like OP is just fan fiction writing for r-babyboomers.
Just fucking wow.
Maybe because it just doesn't fkn pay off any more and it doesn't feel like it matters. Doesn't matter whether I put in 110% or 10% I'm still getting paid the same at the end of the day and it's not fucking enough
It’s ok. If you don’t like it we’ll import cheaper workers further causing problems with pay and housing
“You pretend to pay us and we pretend to work” - old Soviet maxim
Is this what they call quiet quitting? Not actually quitting but quietly working to rule and not doing anything else, all due to businesses not caring about the people that work for them/lip service and caring more about investors and profit
Yep, the other recent work trend was malicious compliance
Save rent by living in these free houses! https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/the-sydney-suburbs-where-one-in-five-homes-is-not-lived-in-full-time-20240613-p5jlmr.html
I think people misunderstand. We have a small number of industries supporting our population in what most nations would call luxury. Officially well over 90% of us are officially in the top 1% of the world. Our poor can buy a car, buy clothes, hunger is rare. Homelessness still rare but increasing with falling productivity. Many city people are fighting desperately to shut down what little industry we have left. Factories, refineries, mines, these are productive. And they are still closing.Now even the housing sector is shutting down. Instead we are turning into a nation of unproductive office manager paper pushers. So what we used to make, we now buy from overseas. That's falling productivity. What we need is to making stuff again.
I have no idea which poor you are talking about, but you would be wrong about your car, clothes and food.
while you are correct with your concerns about manufacturing, does it not occur to you that mines, refineries, agriculture etc need 'paper pushers' to run them? There are other industries like education which are necessary and Australia does well.
What’s the point of working when the commute and the morning coffee probably mean you’re going to skip a meal later
I think its gross that employers are pushing workers back to the office from home so that real estate companies dont lose profits, meanwhile those workers struggle to pay for that train ticket
We have never been busier or more efficient it's just that they are hitting the wall of what humans are capable of at such an insulting slave based wage
I'm going to peg this to what seems like an overly simple route cause: the current (ie The last 5-10 years) generation of HR (people and culture) graduates aren't being educated to successfully motivate people. You can see. It in any corporation, cumbersome performance reviews that are not linked to pay, bonus structures that aren't guaranteed, "work place culture" that is stated but never reinforced. Current HR best practice seems to be to say a lot about being a great place to work while ignoring the reasons people actually are unhappy - low wages and shitty day to day work outcomes. For reference I love my job and want to do well at it, but the way corps go about incentivising me to care usually achieves the exact opposite.
Yup. Am one such person who has burnt out so hard because of societal pressures to be successful, follow that grindset and disregard every aspect of myself that screams for rest, that it's caught up with me and I'm forced to drop to part time hours and live paycheck to paycheck so that i don't commit sudoku. Barely surviving this shit.
Stop promoting from within and this is what happens. So many industries just churn through staff and hire externally to replace rather than creating a culture and promoting from within. How can you blame the employees that get overlooked for going "tools down" when they aren't rewarded for their productivity. All organisations should prioritise internal promotion over external hires where they can, this is how you create a culture and how you encourage the people you have to strive to improve. It aligns business and individual incentives, which as we know is how you yield the best results. It isn't rocket science.
Even if you aren't having cost of living issues, every piece of "media" 24/7 is saying you are, it's not long till your actually convinced you are having cost of living issues. I find my money goes further when my TV is turned off.
I have friends I see weekly who for the most part are not suffering cost of living issues of any kind, yet now at least once a week I hear from one of them. "Gee cost of living pressures are tough" Yeh I get everything is more expensive, but this over saturation of "cost of living pressures" have convinced even people not experiencing them to think they are experiencing them.. Puzzling.
My real estate does not like it when I request the maintenance guy brings a copy of his police check certificate for me to check prior to allowing him entry to fix the property (as they insist on letting him in when I am not home) Can't even find respectable maintenance people anymore
I think the problem is that everybody knows that even if they put their all into it - their job isn't actually *productive*. I work as a specialist in keyboard machinery and PDF/Excel file production and modification (which is to say, I don't really make anything). There was a time I worked for a small start up alcohol distillery bottling and making niche and tasty Australian made and owned spirits. I worked hard there, the owner even made a comment on how I was "going for employee of the month" the joke being there was only 3 of us there including the owner and my mate/manager/ But I **PRODUCED** something. I started with raw materials worth hell maybe $5 or less (per bottle) inside a moonshiners shed basically. At the end of the day having finished hand bottling, sealing, labelling, packing and stacking. The end of the day I could look and see how I had **PRODUCED VALUE**. What I started the day with was worth $30 a box to a pallet stacked high with each box now worth $300. Then there were market days where I'd help set up a table, draw a cute little cafe style menus advertising our wares and prices in fancy cursive script. Then spent the day giving out samples and encouraging people to taste our free samples. Of course occasionally I'd pour myself a shot or two of my particular favourites, **ENJOYING THE FRUIT** (flavoured booze) **OF MY LABOUR**. Customers would buy some and there was a cash discount and **I COULD LITERALLY TOUCH THE PROFITS OF MY WORK AS THE MONEY CAME IN**. Well my bosses money. But that was so satisfying. How can you expect anyone to try and be productive wen they know their job is pointless?
What is keyboard machinery? I get that you are disconnected from the value you create. But consider... Those excel and pdfs are used by someone to make business decisions. That could improve things by a few percent, saving millions, saving time and energy.
Can't talk about what I do but let's just say that any excess value I produce goes into a foreign companies share price and I am paid by you... the taxpayer
So basically, fuck around and find out
God that was hard to read
Sounds like you work somewhere shit. The people I work with are legends and we all go above and beyond when the situation requires, and no not for free.
Really hope it's at a primary school
No one has any money to buy nice things at the end of the week. What’s to look forward too? When will the people vote out the 2 parties that have screwed this country m?
I have to say it's really hard to stay motivated when you are struggling and all your life goals seem unattainable, like owning a house, starting a family etc. My energy levels are dropping and I am feeling more and more hopeless/depressed
I’m dreading my annual pay review. I have a figure in mind, and it’s not even an unreasonable expectation. I doubt I’ll get it. Work morale where I work, is so low, I see my colleagues at their desks in tears. I too cry some days. We aren’t even able to work at a slow pace, as we’ll drown. And annual leave is hardly a relaxing time, as no one covers workload or each other’s inbox, No one has time to. We’re just slaves in business attire. Add being neurodivergent in to the mix and they exploit you even more, whilst doing absolutely nothing to support you. At least it’s pushed me to go and study economics…
Why would one want to overwork themselves for what is essentially peanuts? I left working for wages years ago and have been a contractor ever since, and that's the sole reason I've been able to keep my head above water. Wages do not cover what it costs to live. It'd be better for the government to set in and force the price gouging large corporations to lower their profits by selling their products at a more reasonable rate than to increase the wages for people.
In my current job, I have nowhere to go. Get given unrealistic targets (sales and revenue) and my job is now split over 2 departments where now 40% of my time is not dedicated to my job description. Tried to get an electrical apprenticeship, applied to literally every job for 8months but haven't even received a call let alone interview. I'm guessing I'm not considered as I'm mature aged and dont have the resources to do a pre-apprenticeship (can't take 3 months off work while having to help support wife and 2x kids) Applied for new job in field. Got it. 20k/a pay rise + bonuses with clear path to promotion with more pay. This is my recent experience in the Australian Job market, fft.
Legit post. Concerning times.
Yep, but what can you expect when the social contract is completely broken? A young Sydneysider can't even dream of one day owning a house through their own hard work and saving. If they ever get a house, it will be because their own parents drop dead and they inherit a $1M 1960's fibro shack. Why would young Aussies work hard when this is their reality? Now let's consider the somewhat older Aussies in the 40 to 55 bracket. Chances are they bought a house before 2010 and they are now sitting on at least $500K in home equity, and in many cases, much more. So why would they want to work hard when their house earns more each year than they do? As for the boomers, they just want their easy life to continue; most are already in retirement. That's reality in Australia; whatever social contract existed is dead and buried. If I'm young, I'm not going to waste my life supporting Boomers (F'em) let them rot in hell. If I'm middle-aged, I've also done well out of housing, and don't need to worry about work or the future. Worst comes to worst; I sell my house and move to Bali. #madeintheshade. Maybe you should be asking yourself if Productivity has meaning without an accross the board comittment to a social contract.
Oh no!! We'd better do absolutely fuck all about it then! That always fixes shit around here...
More you work, produce and productivity, the more will be expected from you without any reward.
Guilty as charged.
Not sure what OP's trying to say except maybe their own experience has been a lot of bad luck. But as far as corpo culture, that comes from the top. And the top are basically the same inbred born to rule private school gronks no matter what the company.
This is not entirely true
I just realised something from this post, I'd like to thank everyone for fucking off at work! It's created customers for me that jump hand over fist to make sure I have availability to service their needs and I've been able to increase my charge out rate to $175/hr + gst! It truely isn't hard to shine in this market! Keep up the great work everyone, it's appreciated!
Fuck me, go see a doctor. I got a great coffee the other day and my car fixed by a fantastic mechanic. A cynic would think this post is a psyop or something to just make everyone believe there is nothing to live for. Such drivel.
200k to hold up a stop sign. Unions destroying this country.
No idea keeping many people from becoming homeless and living on the streets corporate greed is unlimited.
You should probably see a doctor before it's too late. It's not that there's not legitimate things to complain about, there's things to complain about in literally every country. Ultimately you aren't owed a better or easier life than anyone who came before you. I think you can be pretty confident of one thing though, and that's that life will never get any easier for someone that's made being a cynical twat their entire personality.
There also seems tobe more and more people who simply arent suited to work even menial jobs. Some people literally cannot stack shelves properly from the look of some coles and woolies Ive been to lately. Our average IQ in aus is going down over time so the number of people who can be of any use in the workforce is going to go down as well in line with that.
You want some salt and vinegar for that chip on your shoulder? I don't see any of these issues in day-to-day life.
as WFH increases Productivity decreases.....
All these comments make me sad for Australia. It has become acceptable to do take money for doing nothing. No wonder the quality of goods and services are so poor now.
Yup as a result I also think we are an overpaid society relative to what we produce. The workforce of Australia demands an upper/middle class lifestyle but contributes what in most economies would be poverty class wages. This is why immigration and offshoring will be used to plug the gap. It’s not the employers want to pay less, it’s that they are not getting enough value to pay more
My days. Listen to this guy " its not that employers don't want to pay less". Meanwhile place i worked at made nearly half the company redundant just before EOFY so they can avoid paying bonuses AND so they can pump up their stock by showing 'cost savings'. Those jobs went to India btw. CTO got fat bonus for it too. You're so out of touch with reality. Its fucking unbelievable.
Meanwhile record profits lol