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For me, I may act like I'm part of a group, but I never actually feel it or believe it.
It's typically in-group bias that drives a lot of this discrimination/racism/etc., so it would make sense that those of us who are less likely to feel like they truly belong to a group would be less likely to embrace these sorts of in-group biases.
Too familiar with feeling like we are trying to fit in to cast anyone out. Huh. It has a real "I've been to the dark side and would wish it on none" vibe to it.
Thank you for pointing this out. Autistic black-and-white mortality can lead us into scapegoating just as easily as social reinforcement does for allistics. Autism may be cooler, but it doesn’t guarantee that we’re better people :P
Can confirm. Tribalism is strongly influenced by oxytocin. The stronger the in group bonding, the stronger the outgroup distrust.
As I've gained an in group, my empathy for and ability to dehumanise the outgroups to that in group have increased.
i think we should generally be cautious making such generalisations because it creates in our minds the idea that autism is this cohesive group of individuals that think/are a certain way. for example, although i know most autistic people online tend to be more progressive (for example, lots of us that interact with the autistic online communitie are queer), i don't think this is necessarily the case for people that are not online as much (in the sense that a lot of the autistic people that do not have as much of a strong presence online might be less open).
i feel that the autistic community online can be a bit of an echo-chamber (not in a bad way), and that warps our perception of reality. i think autistic people, like everyone else really, we tend to really stick to our beliefs and apply "logic" from our very subjective perspective. autistic people can be very bigoted too, is my point.
in my case, i think i'm as least of a xenophobe as i can be, while also recognising that, as a white Westerner, i can have certain unconscious biases that i will always try to go against when i realise i have them! i don't know if being autistic has determined my progressive (and radical) views on social issues but i do think it has perhaps influenced my gender identity.
As a young child, I’ve always thought it was illogical and ignorant to discriminate against race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sex, class/socioeconomic level, or whatever. Now that I’m much older I still don’t understand why people do this. I intellectually know about in-group/out-group tribalism but that’s an artificial construct. And seems so absurd. What really matters in my opinion is a value system that’s not constrained to those labels.
And yeah being autistic doesn’t automatically means that a person is virtuous and accepting of everyone.
I do believe that people feel a certain way about others as a primitive means of self-preservation. When people try to rationalize, and normalize these base emotions as if they're valid in our modern environment, I get very confused. We may sometimes feel like murdering some one, but we don't give in to that primitive desire.
Totally agree as I've met a few older people who are not "online". Especially in autism from person to person you have complete different manifestation of symptoms to the point you would believe that it's not the same condition.
Yeah I definitely had some misogyny issues growing up. I was to a large extent compensating for my gender weirdness, turns out, but also just wanting to feel superior.
Ofc I can't know how allistic people process that stuff, but it's not like we're a different species. I'm sure it's the same kind of thing. They form some belief to validate themselves.
I agree and think you said it well. I also think people tend to not recognize all of the autistic people who do not engage in the online autistic community, for example a lot of incels and autistic.
No, literally I was asking how you don’t have a single capital letter.
I assume you’re using Reddit on a computer and not on a smartphone that autocorrects your punctuation, because otherwise the level of effort required seems high.
My dad is autistic, with many of the classic markers (echolalia, social anxiety, lack of eye contact, special interests, meltdowns, etc). I knew more than 10 racist slurs by age 5 because of him. I would be cautious about over generalizing.
Same. My dad is an undiagnosed autistic who loves rules and structure and for him that’s being a boot licker who refuses to accept any criticism again the police because they are the law. He does have friends who are cops and I’ve noticed they all bully him, most of his friends bully him somewhat and I can see it affects him. I definitely grew up with racist jokes seen as funny. I agree about over generalizing but maybe for a certain demographic (diagnosed or undiagnosed gen x and boomer white men) it is common.
Indeed. I think that at least for my dad it’s less about honoring the in-group and more about an obsession with hierarchy, in every respect (gender, race, class, sexuality, etc).
I can relate to both of your comments. I think because most of my family are undiagnosed autistics, it has made them all love their routine so much that they have all never left my hometown. I think growing up in a homogeneous town for generations has unfortunately shaped them into xenophobic people. My dad is not a fan of new environments, food, people, etc. because it makes him anxious and uncomfortable even though I know he doesn’t have the words to describe his own feelings. His routine and fear of change have made him very close minded :(
Never underestimate the drive to fit in. These are learned behaviors, and necessary ones to not get picked out as a tolerant person deserving of whatever corrective action deemed fitting.
Never heard of this. My dad is also autistic and a raging racist. I don't think a developmental disability makes anyone more or less xenophobic or racist.
I can only speak about myself, but I've never understood why people hate other races or cultures. I've always loved other kinds of people and learning about them.
When I was a young teen, I thought something was wrong with me because I had a crush on someone who was a different race but my parents were super racist. Now I see that they were just ignorant
Same, learning about other cultures is such a fun experience. I genuinely can’t understand why people are bigoted.
Also I can relate to having a crush on different races lol. I’m white and went to a primarily black school district my whole life so I ended up finding black women more attractive. My dad made fun of me for it on multiple occasions and I sometimes wondered if it was like… not allowed for people to think other races are pretty? But no it was just my dad being a shithead as usual lol
There are definitely tons of hateful autistic people. Racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic, etc. Even if we are less prone to that kind of hatred, we certainly aren't exempt from the thought processes that lead to it. Not by virtue of our autism, at least. There are sadly a lot of autistic incels and white supremacists, although I don't know about xenophobia in the absence of racial differences. We could be less prone to xenophobia that is *just* about differences in cultural norms, so I'd be very interested to see that studied.
There are some studies have shown that autistic people aren't any less impacted by implicit biases than allistic people, nor are we different in our face-processing to own-race faces vs other-race faces. These studies could definitely use more replication, but the underlying causes behind subconscious racial othering appear to be "intact" in autistic populations. People with Williams Syndrome are a population with a statistically significant lack of implicit biases around race, although they do still have them around gender.
You also have to think about how rigid meaning making maps that lead some of us towards highly social justice oriented values can just as easily lead others towards fascistic and eugenicist values that they believe to just be the only "logical" way to view things. Not all of our meaning making maps are so rigid, but being prone to extreme black and white thinking can make people more vulnerable to prejudice, especially if they're raised with it. These rigid maps can also come with an intense "this is the one best/right way to do this" mentality, which would definitely make someone vulnerable to xenophobic prejudice even if the only difference is cultural.
I also would be curious to see a study if we're more likely to think/claim we're not prejudiced, or if we're actually more likely to recognize our own implicit biases. My guess would be purely based on anecdotal experience.
Generally, I believe anyone who falls into the trap of thinking that social issues are just about whether you look at them "logically" is going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding and addressing said issues. But thankfully it's a trap we can crawl out of. I definitely used to be in that trap when I was a kid, and there are still times I catch myself taking the easy way out by going down that overly-simplistic line of thinking. When that happens, I have to remind myself that even if that way of thinking makes me more comfortable, hence why it's easy to fall into, it limits me.
idk man. There's no evidence to suggest autistic people are more or less racist / xenophobic than the rest of the population. There are some individual, nonreplicated studies that do show outliers in either direction, but y'know, for every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD.
[There is also research that suggests autistic people may be more susceptible to radicalization in any direction](https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/JIDOB-11-2016-0022/full/html)*,* because many of us struggle with abstract reason, black and white / absolutist thinking and forms of empathy, but this is based on rare outlier cases. There are a number of high-profile cases wherein autism may have played a role in a violent offender's behaviour, too.
And with that said, with every anecdote is an equal and opposite anecdote.
I spent a year working with a community deradicalization program and I gotta tell you dude, I met me some autistic nazis. If you pay enough attention to white supremacist groups you are going to notice a lot of these dudes have some kind of social developmental problem, and it's often autism. Sometimes it's [traumatic brain injury](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20642322/), sometimes it's a mental illness due to a [severely fucked up childhood](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09546553.2020.1767604) -- either way, autism and autism-adjacent experiences are pretty common among bigots as well as antibigots.
Anecdotally, almost every autistic person I have met in real life has had some kind of bigotry reflective of the environment that they've grown up in. Because I'm from a poor-to-working-class area of Australia, this is most often homophobia, transphobia and Islamophobia. I used to work in an adult ed. program for kids with developmental disorders and bro, I had to deal with explicitly racist bullying in classrooms, particularly a fucking **saga** where a bunch of the white students (who coincidentally were verbal) decided that autism affects Asian people "more," in a way that makes them lesser, because the handful of Vietnamese students we had were either nonverbal or extremely restricted in verbal speech. I could say whatever I had to say about that in the classroom, but dude. Once, literally minutes after I sat down and explained to these white boys that their beliefs have no basis, that there are just as many verbal autistic Asian people as white people, that race doesn't affect the presentation of autism, etc., I overhear their parents in the hallway asking "how come all the d-nk kids were dismissed early" and "ch-nks even get special treatment in r-tard schools, that's why everybody thinks they're good at math."
I also worked with a lot of students who were ***BIG TIME*** homophobic and unable to escape that: I was told directly by my employers that if I challenged or did anything to address the views they would constantly express to staff, other students, members of the public, etc., that I would be fired because "it's wrong to force disabled people to see the world our way." Basically, bigotry that is permanently enshrined in these people because their parents suck ass and the nice liberals helping them infantilize them too much to respect their bigotry as an adult belief. One of these kids expressed he's trans, had chosen a masc name, insisted on he/him pronouns, only for the other staff (all nice old white ladies) to insist that this is a "delusion" because "she doesn't really understand what 'being a boy' means" and would constantly remind him he has a vergoina whenever he insisted he be called his preferred name. The other students saw and began to imitate this, so essentially, this one kid was bullied relentlessly for being trans
I keep saying "kids" but these people were all 18 - 25 years old. Our oldest student toward the end was (very inappropriately) a 57 year old man, but he was an outlier.
So idk. There's no empirical research that can actually be said to show a meaningful trend one way or another, and in my experience, we are way more susceptible to the kinds of narratives that make us bigots of some flavour than not. Even in this thread you have a knobjockey playing the "kids are identifying as cats" bullshit. It just isn't real man. Autism doesn't make people less bigoted. It's always been environment.
As with all things, autistic people are still individuals. Xenophobia has little to do with being ND or NT and more to do with the culture you’re raised in and what you believe.
There are raging autistic racists, xenophobes, homophobes, sexists, etc,.
The part about perceiving people as human first isn’t necessarily true either. This typically has to do with empathy; which again, differs from person to person. There are tons of autistic people whose first move is to categorise people because that is how their brain is wired to perceive the world around them; sort things into clean boxes.
No unfortunately there are an astonishing number of autistic people who reside on 4chan and put their bigoted bullshit on blast 24 hours a day. There is actually a concerning amount of autistic people who take out their anger on other minorities
I believe autistic people, like anyone else in societies where discrimination levels are high toward certain minorities \[like many western societies\], are still susceptible to implicit biases, and that those biases can make themselves known in micro-aggressions or other forms of conduct that may not be pre-meditated. I've been around plenty of autistic people where it was obvious they were not race blind or unaware of the implicit social categorization of people into castes in some way, and they would make plenty of cringe-worthy comments about minorities.
When it comes to pre-meditated and loud forms of bigotry as encouraged by peer pressure or more overt cultural pressures, I guess it really depends on the individual and how they were raised TBH. Some autistic people may have some greater ability to rationalize around the perpetuation of overt bigotry by neurotypicals, and see the lunacy in all of it, but some individuals can get wrapped up in it all the same if their personal or social situation encourages it.
I would say we’re more likely to be xenophobic, because we have less/dysfunctional empathy, higher levels of social phobia, lower levels of social bonding and engagement. Sort of like a perfect storm for xenophobia really.
Me personally, I do feel wary around those with eourpean hertige, especially if it’s one that has colonial history and if they brag about it a lot. But that’s cause of my own truama as someone who is not fully eourpean American in America. Otherwise idgaf if you have cultural food though I’m gonna wanna try it
I mean, idk if that' the case for you, but if you'e from a country that got colonized by a European country (or just any country) I think it's natural to be war around Europeans, especially considering how nowadays a lot of them act like they are morally above most other nations and so accepting and diverse, when they'e not. And I'm saying this as a European.
No, I don't think there's generally a correlation personally. Autistic people are just as diverse as neurotypicals and I've met many of hard-headed, right-wing and racist autistics.
Interestingly, I have heard the exact opposite association, right here on Reddit, regarding incels, as they tend to be associated both with autism and the far-right.
Are you talking about Native Americans for example?
I think there is a big difference between peaceful immigration (something happening in my country right now) and colonization where entire nations get exterminated, displaced, or suffer horrific forms of oppression by the colonizer. I'm most certainly not being colonized or oppressed by Black African or Arab expats coming to my country
I wouldn't say I'm racist or xenophobic but I'd be over stimulated if I'm in a train full of people from countries with very loud cultures.
China, Philippines, Myanmar are some of them. They'd talk loudly in the train here and when it's a train full of them, I'm often so over stimulated I want to die.
However, If they were quiet people like at 6am trains where people just commute quietly to work, I'd be fine. But I think I fail at being more tolerant for certain groups of people under certain conditions.
Ehhhh...
I think we're less likely to be racist over-all (I have a theory that people who've faced discrimination tend to empathize with each other), but I've also met EXTREMELY racist autistic people. It is difficult to make a generalization I think.
My theory: autistic people often don't respect hierarchy. We can recognise it and see a purpose it serves in some situations like workplaces needing management, government needing leaders, etc. but we don't see those individuals as being any different or any more deserving than other people. Racism is just a made up hierarchy that serves no purpose so we disregard it entirely.
Of course, we are not a monolith and this won't apply to all of us, and we are still people who are influenced by societal standards.
I think it comes down to the individual and how they access info. I do a lot of stuff around Welsh independence from the UK, and you would think nationalism and wanting to break away from Westminster/England would come with some xenophobia maybe resentment, but it doesnt, there are a lot of autistic people in the Welsh indy scene and I can say pretty much all of them I have met hate Westminster and most of them royals, but not the people of England. They all have a strong sense of injustice politically, and want to share their culture outside their country rather than some sense of keeping it to themselves. These people all also are very clued up on world issues for the most part and came to similar conclusions from their own research.
But on the flip side, I know a few super racist autistics who see multiculurism with a sense of injustice and they really struggle to put themselves in other peoples shoes when I try to level with them about refugees and other issues. They are quite easy to convince with facebook posts etc, they will take it entirely as truth rather than research further or fact check, and there is no point at all aruguing even if you can entirely prove it false.
So I think a lot of it is about data gathering and how we are people come to conclusions about that data. My general experience is if you are more likely to give a post scrutiny by looking into it, you come to less bigoted conclusions. I think also something has to be said about the cameleon in the group effect. I know one dude who supports a football club that has no relevance to him, and because of that club it shapes his political and also racist views.... But its entirely because he wants to fit in with a certain group at a certain pub.
Probably not much different from the general population, since my dad who is autistic spews slurs like there’s no tomorrow
Being autistic doesn’t excuse you from being a POS
I have an autistic uncle and he’ll go on tirades about other cultures being barbaric and readily uses the N word, hard R. He’s also a total asshole, beyond the typical lack of social awareness you’d expect. So who’s to say haha.
Im just word vomiting here but I wonder if maybe older generations of autistic people tend to be meaner because they were never diagnosed or accepted for their quirks. Maybe the decades of feeling rejected by society and told all their problems were just character flaws made them bitter. Maybe then they take it out on others through racism and stuff. Obvs I’m also generalizing but yeah, interesting to think about
I think that due to our own experience of being different, we are less likely to be prejudiced towards minorities or groups which are hated.
You have to remember that “society” (aka heterosexual, white, cisgender, neurotypical, able-bodied, rich, Christian men) has a lot of people they hate:
People of colour (racism)
Foreigners (xenophobia and racism)
Women (sexism)
LGBTQ+ (homophobia, transphobia)
Neurodivergents (ableism)
People who aren’t able-bodied (ableism)
People of different religions (antisemitism, islamophobia and more)
The poor (classism)
So naturally members of these groups are more likely to be supportive than those in the category of those who run “society.”
Although that’s just my opinion.
Im not sure ... I personally feel some kind of xenophobia in me unfortunately
But it's not like i hate them, I'm just afraid of people with different culture/habits/way of thinking
Autistic racist people definitely exist, we are not immune to prejudice.
That said, since we’re less in touch with our own cultures’ norms, we might notice less when other cultures have different norms.
I think the short answer is how _logical_ we are.
We tend to evaluate the data rather than the impression. Detail-oriented, detail-first.
(fd: I wont get diagnosed until october)
The great replacement scare carries little sting when you're already part of the outgroup. This may explain why Jews played a disproportionate role in leftism. When your people are second class citizens dating back even before the trans atlantic slave trade, you tend to favor more equality and tolerance.
I'm not sure about the discussion in general, but I am definitely one of those autistics who don't hate people based on a single aspect of their identity. I am an anomaly though. It makes me sad to say this, but my whole family is racist and xenophobic (mostly based on race though). We live in South Africa and my family are Afrikaners. There are definitely other autistic members in my family, I didn't get it out of thin air. I'm kind of an outcast within my own family, not because of my autism, but because I don't tolerate their racism and they are not allowed to talk about their religious beliefs in my presence. I'm also atheist. I just see people and I am acutely aware that I don't know them. I can come across as racist in public due to my sensory overload though and I genuinely hate when that happens because I have this thing about the truth being told, and when people assume I'm being racist when I have the exact same reaction to people from my own culture it really urks me.
Possibly on average, but I think autistic people tend to be pushed more to the extremes of politics thanks to facing discrimination. Probably most autistic people grow to want to fight oppression and become very progressive, recognising the parallels between different forms of discrimination and becoming against it in all forms, but unfortunately facing discrimination along with the communication barrier between us and NTs and our generally more trusting nature makes autistic people much more prone to far-right/fascist indoctrination.
As a median average, we're probably less xenophobic than the general population, but as a mean average quite possibly not, given the extreme xenophobia of fascists.
I've seen statements that autistic and neurodivergent people in general can have a very strong sense of justice. There are also hyper-empathic neurodivergent people and hypo-empathic neurodivergent people. Not sure if these are just observations by our community or if this is already studied. Like RSD, it could be a very common thing that is for some reason just not part of the diagnostic criteria. In my experience autistics are either very empathic or almost not at all so maybe you just met the empathic ones and therefore think we are less xenophobic. But just look at Elon, he claims to be autistic and he doesn't give a f about the environment, his employees and he is incredibly racist and prone to conspiracy theories, we certainly are not all the same
I don't know if it's a part of Autism or just individual morals and ethics, but I think it's linked to the strong sense of justice thing we tend to have.
I don't 'see' race or gender, everyone is equal and I honestly struggle to see why people can't just accept each other as humans. Everyone seems transfixed on historical discretions, and desecrations which are used not as lessons to learn from, but wedges and weapons to further drive everyone apart.
If any individual displays negative qualities (unlawful, or harmful) then they are judged as an individual.
If any individual displays positive qualities (lawful, helpful) then they are judged as an individual.
No, and I think this is dangerous thinking. There seems to be a growing feeling that autistic people = accepting, kind, don't lie, are somehow better at communicating. It's simply not true. I think if anything the opposite is true, look at 4chan and the incel community for example. Full of prejudiced autistic people.
Difficult one. Some, like you say, may not perceive race/ethnicity/nationality/identity the same way as NT people because of the inherent way they map out people and the world.
Others may struggle with the unfamiliar, like differences in culture/custom which compound existing difficulties already present within one's *own* culture concerning conventions and social cues. And ND people wouldn't necessarily be immune to prejudices (conscious or otherwise).
I think also a feature of some ND traits is seeking out patterns, including (real or perceived) behavioural patterns, which might be a conduit for prejudice.
If any stats ever showed that ND folk are *consciously* less xenophobic on the whole, it might be from a sense of empathy with fellow 'outsiders', and maybe explains why the openly ND community tends to be broadly socially progressive on the whole.
I guess it just depends on your form of neurodivergence, what your self-awareness is like and your life experience to date.
There is *some* evidence that autistic people are less likely to apply preconceived notions about groups of people to their expectations of individuals. However, I'd be *very* careful about taking this as proof that you're immune to prejudice. You probably aren't.
For me specifically, if I'm accepted into any group it's such a rarity I end up overlooking a lot of ongoing social problems with the group itself, so I'm fairly open minded. But it's not like I'm purposefully being benevolent, I just have limited options. My autistic cousins are more prone to getting involved in cults or gangs for similar reason, but they are seldom fully accepted members by the groups themselves due to quirks and low social skills.
In the 00s, I was accepted into a diverse clique with a lot of gay people, in a conservative high school. It was a mishmash of miscellaneous folk that didn't fit in to the other cliques, with a lot of theatre kids. I hadn't met gay people prior to this but it was taboo to be one. Had I been desirable socially and fit in with the popular kids, I likely wouldn't have hung out with these folks due to the stigma. But since I was low on the social totem pole of the school, I couldn't afford to be picky about my friends, or else I'd have none. We ended up becoming great friends, and I am still close with them 18 years later. Queer culture is very accepting of differences and there's some overlap with autistic people, so I'm glad to have met them. I'm very lucky.
My brother is autistic and extremely homophobic, xenophobic, racist, and transphobic. He has a very rigid idea of 'normal' and anything that doesn't meet a black and white standard is unacceptable. He is also unable to hide his disgust when meeting people that don't fit in with his idea of normal. Our autistic father is similar.
A lot of incels claim to be autistic. I do agree that for myself and the people I know, we would probably personally relate to bigotry making zero sense to us, but there are plenty of awful autistic people too.
Ever since I was a child, I've been telling people that I don't differenciate human beings and I hate dividing or categorizing them. The only race I know is the human race and nothing else. Then they would react like "Aww, that's a good way of thinking. You're so nice". Bro, I'm not nice. I'm just spitting facts. Why would you want to create this division so bad? Can't we all just unite and accept each other? We are the same.
Btw, I don't know if I'm autistic or not... Still looking for answers.
Autism does not make us monoliths.
We are first and forempst gumans impacted by our own social context, eras, etc.
Yes many autistic people do recognize patterns, and many of us are indeed keen on social issues, and often are part of marginalised groups which hightens our chances of actually caring and not agreeing with any -phobia.
Some autistic people can still be raging racists, xenophobes, etc. Maybe their autism can influence how they perceive people from other countries as a change in their racist/xenophobic routine... idk. And idk if its that useful for anyone to try to evaluate or know.
but i would not go on the terrain that autism systematically hightens our chances of "getting it right" when it comes to the moral compass
We have to be mindful of the echo-chamber effect we can find among social media/internet spaces, and/or friend groups where you can share values, experiences and opinions.
Its very nice to have spaces where we can feel heard, understood, and like we belong. But that in itself cannot give us some "scientific sample of reproductible observation" when it comes to autistic people as a whole.
Just as we have many varieties of levels of needs/support, we also have the full spectrum when it comes to personal values.
Foe example, i used to know an autistic white dude that got the privilege of being diagnosed very early. Rich family, had someone paid to personally help him out growing up. I am from the countryside where most people are white, there isnt luch diversity in activities, professions, and tbh... most of them were homophobic and xenophobic, not only against immigrants but even people coming from another region. That guy grew up to be somewhat of a right minded fascist compatible.
I personally didnt grow up like he did. I am queer, and radically aligned with movements of intersectional liberation.
We both grew up in the same place. We both are neurodivergent. But that didnt make us similar.
Idk what percentage autistic xenophobes/racists/lgbtphobes would take up in the global autostic population. But even if they were a minority, they exist.
I would hope that majority of autistic people are more sensible to social struggles, intersectionnality, etc... but that is also i fluenced by the neurodivergent people i have met in my spaces irl + on the internet. All could be biased.
I'm not sure, but from my experience, I *want* to travel and see other cultures, learn new languages, and eat some good food. I've never been able to leave the country due to cost but I have travelled around the US a bit. Even just meeting different people in my own country is interesting.
That said, I'm sure that even though I am mixed race and therefore it doesn't make sense for people to be racist, I probably said or did things that could be seen as racist and not realized it or had pointed out to me. I treat everyone with the same general politeness but some people's cultures may see what I think is polite as rude, so it's hard to tell. I don't consider myself as consciously, maliciously, or intentionally racist or xenophobic. I love seeing all cultures and I want to learn more. I feel like I'm an outsider looking in on people and I want to be able to relate to them more (cue "Part of Your World" from Little Mermaid).
I mean, hell, in some cultures, *smiling* is rude, but I smile at everyone so it's not like I know offhand what would be okay unless someone points it out to me. I'm mostly left-handed and tend to wave at people with my left hand, but if someone appears Middle Eastern to me, I use my right hand since it's insulting. Making a "one" gesture with your index fingernail pointed toward someone in most cultures is fine, but in Japan it is essentially flipping someone off. Showing someone the bottom of your shoes is insulting in most African countries. It's normal to throw small trash on the floor at a restaurant in Spain since they sweep the floor constantly but here it's rude. Slurping your food is okay in most Asian cultures but almost everywhere else, not so much.
Basically what I'm saying is, I don't think a lot of us choose to be shitty toward other ethnicities and races, just like we don't usually choose to be shitty to our own ethnicities or races. I think a lot of our perceived shittiness would be most likely miscommunication and ignorance, but not in a purposefully mean way.
I’ve seen the opposite honestly, I had a friend that I ditched because she said genuinely disgusting things about non-western cultures unprompted and then claimed she was totally right because she was autistic and therefore viewing things objectively (after calling middle Eastern people animals with no society and trash talking all of South America, then making fun of me for speaking Spanish)
What I noticed is that I personally don't understand why people dislike "unusual" things. I just dgaf what people do if they're happy and it dosen't harm anyone.
This might just be my personal experience but as a white autistic who grew up in a very diverse community other cultures where always nicer to me ab my autism than white people 😭
Definitely not true for autistic men I've known, and funny enough that's true regardless of their race. Generally, most autistic men I know have a huge issue with modern social justice because, well, frankly, they're not just entirely excluded from today's socially appropriate definition of "victim", but they're often heralded as having all sorts of privilege if they're white -- despite that being an autistic is quite the opposite of a privilege.
Also, autistic guys are far more likely to make social faux pas about anything, so that of course also includes racial topics. All it takes is one unintentional comment that even remotely smells racist, and those autistic guys get labelled as such, and then come to deeply resent today's world.
I think that just as in NTs, the xenophobic ones are just more quiet about it. They light be autistic, but they can still clearly see that their view is socially unacceptable. Though I do truly believe there are less of us with the vilify to hate things that are different. Cuz then we’d hate NTs too.
I’ve also noticed I notice way less about other people’s bodies. Unless it’s something really off or someone is intentionally trying to draw attention to it.
For example, I went to Disney recently with distant relatives. They all notice minor details on people around us. I pretty much only noticed two people. One was a very drunk girl who wasn’t wearing any shoes. I really only noticed because she was drunk yelling. The second was a lady who was barreling around a corner, and I noticed she probably had a breast augmentation (once did a plastic surgery science deep dive, I’m not a creep, I swear) because before I dodged her they were directly in front of my eyes.
They notice other things about people like their weight, acne, hair, clothing, whatever. I don’t have the mental bandwidth to take in that info when I’m out in public.
Yep, one of the main reasons just over 8 years ago I voted remain for Brexit was because unlike most of the original leave voters, I don't hate immigrants, legal or otherwise.
I just have a low tolerance of the incredibily annoying language barrier between myself and some of my support staff who don't speak very good English.
However, I'm not racist, I hate almost everyone equally whether they're black, white or an Elephant.
Absolutely disagree. This is much the same as the "autistics are more fair because they care about justice" kind of take that paints autistic people as angelic beings of good and righteousness. It's tempting to want to believe, but it's just not true.
There is just as much stereotyping and bias and "isms" present amongst neurodivergent people. Autistic people of colour often talk about how unwelcomed they feel or how much lack of cultural awareness and racial bias is perpetuated within autistic communities that are predominantly white. It's just like many online autistic communities being dominated by those with lower support needs and speaking on behalf of all autistics. Not to say that that perspective is invalid at all, but it is incomplete and not representative of the autistic experience as a whole, but is often considered or presented as such.
It's really dangerous to think this way as it leaves people thinking they're okay without having to question their biases or how intersectionality might affect other autistics. Autistic people are not immune to this stuff. In fact, sometimes that rigidity of thinking we can have can make it harder to let go of our biases or worldviews that we have learned, or to admit when we are wrong.
Fidgets and Fries on Instagram talks about this a lot from the perspective of a black autistic woman in the US as well as from levels of different support needs, but there are likely others as well.
It's also really important to learn how racism is often systemic in ways that we are blind to when it doesn't impact us, and how we also may have racist beliefs or ways of thinking/behaving in more subconscious ways than openly hating someone for their race or ethnicity.
I'm sorry if this comes across as blunt. It would be nice if we, as autistics, were able to see through that stuff as part of that lauded pattern recognition, and just not be a part of it, but unfortunately we are not immune. It's systemic. It's subconscious. It's not always overt, although sometimes it is, even for autistics. I also don't really know how to communicate about it effectively as something that affects me in a personal way, that I feel, rather than being able to articulate clearly. It's also tiring. I hope we can get to that point, and perhaps autistic people will help lead us there. But we are not free from racism.
Autism makes rational thinking rather thank emotional thinking, specifically in social related discussion.
Try it yourself, discuss any matter with a NT that has a strong opinion on inmigrants and seek mutual points of view, there may be but if you wander around through the discussion you should notice how your differences are greater/more different than NTs having them. Everyone is different, but some are more different, and this is autism key factor.
Works also on other social-trusting discussions such as political, religion, social controversies like vaccines, etc.
Not from what I’ve seen. I haven’t noticed any difference in racism and xenophobia within neurodivergent communities. It’s just as bad, but at least NTs don’t tell me that their disability made them do it, or called me an ableist for being upset by it.
Actually, I think so too. I myself is probably the opposite of xenophobic. I love seeing people with different nationalities and culture, and someday I want to travel the world. I also tend to be more comfortable being with people who are with different ethnicity rather than my own. I love songs from different countries, even more so than my native language.
I don't get people who are racists and have prejudices against other nationalities because I love seeing different kinds of people in the world.
I wouldn't generalize a whole group with such a touchy subject. However I will say that autistic people would likely have a harder time with people of certain cultures or countries who may have a hard time speaking clearly or are pushing their culture's values where it may not be appropriate.
this main post is about race and ethnicity so this isn't rlly relevant at all, but i disagree with waiting tilll they're 18 before exposing them to things about drugs, alcohol, sex and all that "taboo" stuff.
you know where a kid would first learn about sex? first from other kids, and then the internet. they'd learn about it before they're 10 (the 10 year olds on my school bus told me and all the other kids all about sex when i was 7), regardless of when the school decides to give anyone proper sex ed. there is basically no way for kids to not be exposed to this kinda stuff before they're 18, not when sex is this really "cool", "mature", "taboo", and "adult" thing to talk about among kids.
now, i don't think schools should talk about these taboo topics to those who are any younger than 12, but they should aim to inform those who are 12 or older about these things. kids around that age need and deserve to know how to keep themselves safe and healthy. many ppl i know have already lost their virginity before they're 18. would have been a real shame if they didn't know what condoms were or how to use them.
hypothetically, it makes sense, and thats also kinda what ive experienced but thats mostly online with people that know theyre autistic, but ive heard of some autistic people being super into racism, maybe an easy way to fit in could be mutual hatred, or just they dont think about it cause theyre so angry at the world... I could also see someone falling into a false logic about the world
basically probably less, but not really not
I prefer cultures that are less annoying to me than my own country's culture, but I mostly prefer to be around Slavic people, excluding most Russians. I like some of the less materialistic Western European countries too.
Homogeneous communities are easier for me as there's less social rules to have to understand among all the different cultures and more order to things. Also when loads of people around me are speaking different languages it makes my sensory overload worse.
Well supposedly autistic people have increased empathy that includes non-humans. I'm obviously not saying ethnic/racial minorities or foreigners are non-human, but I suspect that this tendency helps span the gap such that those who are different from us seem more sympathetic. It doesn't require a subjective familiarity.
Also there's the fact that we know what it's like to be different.
I think we are less predisposed to being socially influenced to be discriminatory in that way, naturally we seem to question these sort of things more.
We do have positive communities as well, but I've definitly met insanely racist and prejudice autsitic people, one of my friends whos autisitc is somewhat prejudice and one of the reasons, far from the main one, is that he's incredibly naive and stubborn, which for me isn't a good excuse he's that by choice for the most part. Autsitic communities seem to tend towards being more accepting, but general statements such as we are more tolerant aren't true.
Are you a person of color? Have you experienced colorism or any discrimination on the basis of your ethnicity? (if the answer is no, HOW are you getting a sample size for these anecdotal and frankly irresponsible claims?)
This concept is ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so blunt because I get why you'd feel this way. I understand that outright hate is rare and autistics generally seem to be empathetic and morally upright.
HOWEVER, autism can also cause some major fuckin blind spots (i know firsthand) and racism is NOT outright hate from a few jerks. It is **a systemic form of oppression built into our society's institutions**, from the criminal justice system to healthcare and school systems. It's embedded in our country's foundational beliefs and policies. Racism/other isms is the erosion of credibility and choices for anyone who faces multiple barriers on the basis of who they are. It has literally *nothing to do with how nice you are*. Nice people can be awful, ignorant, unsafe racists and still have a loving family and upstanding status. see, literally all politicians ever. Being autistic does not and will never excuse anyone from being a terrible person, making harmful mistakes, participating in our racist society as a functional member who upholds privilege, or being really blind and close-minded to other people's experiences and needs.
I think this type of rhetoric (that you have so boldly posted here) can make spaces feel FAR less safe and inclusive to people of color. So despite your evidence (of how amazing and colorblind autistics are) this post is actually evidence of the opposite, of how perfectly nice, accepting people can perpetuate and even normalize racial aggression and out-grouping. I'm not saying you should feel bad, I just really want people to think about this on a deeper level and with the humility to recognize that we are **all always** ignorant to the people who have it worse than us, and asserting that they are probably fine doesn't say what we think it does about us.
i wouldn’t say this is true tbf i’ve seen some autistic people who are incredibly racist, homophobic and xenophobic because of their rigid thinking. even people who part of the communities that they’re discriminating against Z
I feel like in general autistic people understand what it feels like to be a minority, so they’re more accepting of other minorities. Idk that’s probably too broad of a generalization but it makes sense to me
I think for many people who feel or are different are likely to be more accepting of others who are as well. But as many have said in this thread it's not the best thing to make large generalizations, this is just based on what I have personally witnessed.
I think we might be more tolerant towards other groups and cultures because we never fit in. And we tend to think with logic rather than fully emotional. (Even if we confuse the two sometimes)
Like for example if someone wants to walk around with studs all over their body, be my guest. It doesn’t affect me in any way. I might think it’s a bit weird but who am I to judge?
Maybe we might have a broader understanding of how other people aren’t like us, because we’re not like neurotypicals. We never exactly fit in. But that’s okey, and there’s nothing wrong with looking or acting differently (as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone).
Or maybe we’re more accepting because we want to be accepted by others? Who knows!
Disclaimer: these are just my own theories. I’m not trying to generalize every autistic person as there’s also autistic people out there who don’t understand that other people are different. (Kinda like how a parent might expect their child to be like them, which of course isn’t the case)
Even if everybody here will answer that no, they are not racist and neither are their autistic friends, this tells you nothing about general tendencies of autistic people.
I can give you several anecdotal evidence to the opposite by working with autistic teens:
\* Some have less filters, which means often they would say something perceived as racist (not always being deliberately racist), that NTs usually know is perceived as racist and would therefore not say in public or reformulate to not sound racist. I had several kids bowing to a SE-Asian-looking assistance, the way they saw Japanese people on TV do, without thinking this might be perceived as much more racist than simply saying thanks to her .
\* Some really do have racist views. The amount of racist and antisemitic views I have heard from autistic people would be surprising, but reflects mostly the families they grew up in and echoing things they hear at home. Again, NT kids who know what their teacher expects to hear, would use such statements only in cases of provocation, but would know that these are not acceptable views
\* Some autistic teens \*are\* aware that it is racist and hurtful, but lack of understanding of the appropriate way or social context to express their grievances. I had for example a student who was insulted by a fellow student of colour, and his impulsive reaction was to use the N-word against the offender.
Double edged sword in a way I think.
I'd say we generally have a more intimate understanding of being "othered" as we're so often outcasts. So that sympathy and empathy goes a long way.
But it also can drive a desire to "belong". Belonging to a group is often a very foreign concept to many of us. A person will often desire what they don't have.
I expect that the sympathy/empathy side is the dominant case in general. It's certainly what I've found.
We also tend to lean much harder into logical thinking rather than emotional thinking. I'd expect that skews things even more away from xenophobia. But then, eugenics is very "logical" in ways and that shit's evil. IDK.
I don't know about y'all but I've never been a big sports fan or cared enough about a brand to shell out an extra $30. I think we feel tribalism to a lesser extent and react much less to "them" vs "us" rhetoric
I feel that autistic individuals are especially susceptible to falling into white supremacist pipelines. They specifically target young people who feel alone in the world. Autistic people can also be more vulnerable to being manipulated. Those autistics that want connections are often desperately looking for a place they feel accepted, welcome, + safe. White supremacists can create these kind of spaces to recruit more into their movements
Especially since I'd imagine a good chunk of autistics feel rejected by society + totally disillusioned with the world. Being told it's this one group of people ruining it for you + you can have the life you always wanted if only the minorities are dealt with may be too appealing for some
Well, I was talking about autistic folks in general, not just aspies.
And no, I'm not saying that we as autistics are inherently superior to neurotypicals
Most autistic people suck at visualizing, so it seems likely to me we have a lot less of a sense of identity/being part of a group. So I would suspect a lot less xenophobia as that is caused by seeing someone as the outside of a group.
This is the first I've heard of autistic people having trouble visualizing, I don't think most of us have aphantasia. Where did you hear this? Pretty much every autistic person I know has a vivid imagination.
I know from myself an I also read a few studies. There has been a large correlation found between people being trans and autistic, something like 12 times more likely. The main theory I have heard is that because they are bad at abstraction they are more open to coming up with an identity that fits them.
also being bad at abstraction is one of the reasons it's often hard for autistic people to stop making the same mistakes in certain contexts.
I hate others based on stupid behavior. People are also attracted to a specific type of appearance when it comes to dating, and I got nothing wrong with that since I'm the same way. Although being prejudice is totally unacceptable
One has to be careful of selection bias, but I can believe it. People of any identity group you care to name don't have a monopoly on good or bad qualities. It makes far more sense to treat people as individuals who have their own virtues and vices. It's part of some cultures or subcultures to be especially nervous around members of the outgroup.
I'd think bottom up thinking entails more drawing from your own experience and ignoring folk knowledge than top down thinking. Further, empirical knowledge suggests that most people in identity groups are, if not necessarily angels, aren't really evil either. It also seems common for people to abandon hate groups once they actually get to know members of the outgroup. They were members more as a kind of default than a carefully considered position. In other words, racism and such is frequently top-down thinking, understanding the environment in terms of what was learned from others rather than bottom up, details of your environment influencing your understanding.
You meet one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. The ASD person's preference for bottom up thinking is probably not universal nor does it necessarily overrule one's top down thinking in every situation. It seems a general trend though. I'd expect that to reduce prejudice, on the average.
You end your post with "why do some people refuse to follow this basic logic?" By this, you are saying that your post is basic logic and other people who have a different opinion on contemporary migration do not have a logical basis for saying that.
That is an intolerant and insulting thing to think or say.
Please just be aware that people who have a different opinion on migration and how we should handle it, especially illegal migration, are not automatically also xenophobic, racist, hating, or one of the other keywords you used.
Only then, real dialogue is possible. If not, there is no reason to reply about the issue itself, because if people who think migration isn't preferable at this moment for their country are regarded as xenophobic, people-hating individuals, you're not going to respect their opinion anyway.
If I misinterpreted your post let me know if you want. But there are words in there that I think shouldn't. Happy to talk about it.
I've got autism and I'm okay with all this LGBTQ+ stuff if it's what the person genuinely wants that'll make them happy. Basically as long as you aren't hurting anyone else, you should be able to do anything you want. If my best friend or whatever was gay, I wouldn't have an issue with it.
What I disagree with is pushing it onto kids. Kids shouldn't know about this stuff until they're at least 18. It's the same with drugs, alcohol and sex. They're finding out that these things are "cool" when they're like 9 and it's killing youth mental health. In schools kids are identifying as cats and whatever, I believe it is morally wrong to allow that to be a thing and that it harms them in many ways. Like how there should not be 12 year olds smoking weed but there is.
I mean, I hear this argument all the time about the LGBTQ+ stuff, the 'pushing it onto kids' yet I've failed to witness any place where such a thing is happening besides the internet, and if people are letting their impressionable 9 year olds on TikTok, that's on them, not any community.
Well, most of the countries that have colonies are European, so instead of listing a bunch of individual European colonist countries that I don’t like BECAUSE they’re colonists, I just say that I don’t like Europe.
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For me, I may act like I'm part of a group, but I never actually feel it or believe it. It's typically in-group bias that drives a lot of this discrimination/racism/etc., so it would make sense that those of us who are less likely to feel like they truly belong to a group would be less likely to embrace these sorts of in-group biases.
Too familiar with feeling like we are trying to fit in to cast anyone out. Huh. It has a real "I've been to the dark side and would wish it on none" vibe to it.
I agree
On the other hand, desire to prove that you're part of the in-group when you feel like you've been unfairly othered can *also* drive discrimination.
Thank you for pointing this out. Autistic black-and-white mortality can lead us into scapegoating just as easily as social reinforcement does for allistics. Autism may be cooler, but it doesn’t guarantee that we’re better people :P
Of course we're better, but we're not perfect either.
Well, you and I are better, that much is clear, but SOME of us must kinda suck :p
Can confirm. Tribalism is strongly influenced by oxytocin. The stronger the in group bonding, the stronger the outgroup distrust. As I've gained an in group, my empathy for and ability to dehumanise the outgroups to that in group have increased.
Exactly. I don't belong anywhere, so there's no reason for me to hate any more or less artificial group of human beings more than others.
Exactly
i think we should generally be cautious making such generalisations because it creates in our minds the idea that autism is this cohesive group of individuals that think/are a certain way. for example, although i know most autistic people online tend to be more progressive (for example, lots of us that interact with the autistic online communitie are queer), i don't think this is necessarily the case for people that are not online as much (in the sense that a lot of the autistic people that do not have as much of a strong presence online might be less open). i feel that the autistic community online can be a bit of an echo-chamber (not in a bad way), and that warps our perception of reality. i think autistic people, like everyone else really, we tend to really stick to our beliefs and apply "logic" from our very subjective perspective. autistic people can be very bigoted too, is my point. in my case, i think i'm as least of a xenophobe as i can be, while also recognising that, as a white Westerner, i can have certain unconscious biases that i will always try to go against when i realise i have them! i don't know if being autistic has determined my progressive (and radical) views on social issues but i do think it has perhaps influenced my gender identity.
As a young child, I’ve always thought it was illogical and ignorant to discriminate against race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sex, class/socioeconomic level, or whatever. Now that I’m much older I still don’t understand why people do this. I intellectually know about in-group/out-group tribalism but that’s an artificial construct. And seems so absurd. What really matters in my opinion is a value system that’s not constrained to those labels. And yeah being autistic doesn’t automatically means that a person is virtuous and accepting of everyone.
I do believe that people feel a certain way about others as a primitive means of self-preservation. When people try to rationalize, and normalize these base emotions as if they're valid in our modern environment, I get very confused. We may sometimes feel like murdering some one, but we don't give in to that primitive desire.
Totally agree as I've met a few older people who are not "online". Especially in autism from person to person you have complete different manifestation of symptoms to the point you would believe that it's not the same condition.
Yeah I definitely had some misogyny issues growing up. I was to a large extent compensating for my gender weirdness, turns out, but also just wanting to feel superior. Ofc I can't know how allistic people process that stuff, but it's not like we're a different species. I'm sure it's the same kind of thing. They form some belief to validate themselves.
I agree and think you said it well. I also think people tend to not recognize all of the autistic people who do not engage in the online autistic community, for example a lot of incels and autistic.
How do you not have a single capital letter in that entire post?
it makes me feel like i’m changing register from serious conversation to laid back, internet talk
No, literally I was asking how you don’t have a single capital letter. I assume you’re using Reddit on a computer and not on a smartphone that autocorrects your punctuation, because otherwise the level of effort required seems high.
stylistic choice ig!
My dad is autistic, with many of the classic markers (echolalia, social anxiety, lack of eye contact, special interests, meltdowns, etc). I knew more than 10 racist slurs by age 5 because of him. I would be cautious about over generalizing.
Same. My dad is an undiagnosed autistic who loves rules and structure and for him that’s being a boot licker who refuses to accept any criticism again the police because they are the law. He does have friends who are cops and I’ve noticed they all bully him, most of his friends bully him somewhat and I can see it affects him. I definitely grew up with racist jokes seen as funny. I agree about over generalizing but maybe for a certain demographic (diagnosed or undiagnosed gen x and boomer white men) it is common.
Indeed. I think that at least for my dad it’s less about honoring the in-group and more about an obsession with hierarchy, in every respect (gender, race, class, sexuality, etc).
I can relate to both of your comments. I think because most of my family are undiagnosed autistics, it has made them all love their routine so much that they have all never left my hometown. I think growing up in a homogeneous town for generations has unfortunately shaped them into xenophobic people. My dad is not a fan of new environments, food, people, etc. because it makes him anxious and uncomfortable even though I know he doesn’t have the words to describe his own feelings. His routine and fear of change have made him very close minded :(
Never underestimate the drive to fit in. These are learned behaviors, and necessary ones to not get picked out as a tolerant person deserving of whatever corrective action deemed fitting.
Omg Mine too! He still says the N-Word like wtf
Never heard of this. My dad is also autistic and a raging racist. I don't think a developmental disability makes anyone more or less xenophobic or racist.
I can only speak about myself, but I've never understood why people hate other races or cultures. I've always loved other kinds of people and learning about them. When I was a young teen, I thought something was wrong with me because I had a crush on someone who was a different race but my parents were super racist. Now I see that they were just ignorant
Yes!! Exactly this Like i just don’t get it?? Why does it bother you?? Who cares if they’re not hurting you??
Same, learning about other cultures is such a fun experience. I genuinely can’t understand why people are bigoted. Also I can relate to having a crush on different races lol. I’m white and went to a primarily black school district my whole life so I ended up finding black women more attractive. My dad made fun of me for it on multiple occasions and I sometimes wondered if it was like… not allowed for people to think other races are pretty? But no it was just my dad being a shithead as usual lol
There's plenty of shitty autistic people, same as any other group, I wouldn't trust someone just because of one aspect of their identity
There are definitely tons of hateful autistic people. Racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic, etc. Even if we are less prone to that kind of hatred, we certainly aren't exempt from the thought processes that lead to it. Not by virtue of our autism, at least. There are sadly a lot of autistic incels and white supremacists, although I don't know about xenophobia in the absence of racial differences. We could be less prone to xenophobia that is *just* about differences in cultural norms, so I'd be very interested to see that studied. There are some studies have shown that autistic people aren't any less impacted by implicit biases than allistic people, nor are we different in our face-processing to own-race faces vs other-race faces. These studies could definitely use more replication, but the underlying causes behind subconscious racial othering appear to be "intact" in autistic populations. People with Williams Syndrome are a population with a statistically significant lack of implicit biases around race, although they do still have them around gender. You also have to think about how rigid meaning making maps that lead some of us towards highly social justice oriented values can just as easily lead others towards fascistic and eugenicist values that they believe to just be the only "logical" way to view things. Not all of our meaning making maps are so rigid, but being prone to extreme black and white thinking can make people more vulnerable to prejudice, especially if they're raised with it. These rigid maps can also come with an intense "this is the one best/right way to do this" mentality, which would definitely make someone vulnerable to xenophobic prejudice even if the only difference is cultural. I also would be curious to see a study if we're more likely to think/claim we're not prejudiced, or if we're actually more likely to recognize our own implicit biases. My guess would be purely based on anecdotal experience. Generally, I believe anyone who falls into the trap of thinking that social issues are just about whether you look at them "logically" is going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding and addressing said issues. But thankfully it's a trap we can crawl out of. I definitely used to be in that trap when I was a kid, and there are still times I catch myself taking the easy way out by going down that overly-simplistic line of thinking. When that happens, I have to remind myself that even if that way of thinking makes me more comfortable, hence why it's easy to fall into, it limits me.
idk man. There's no evidence to suggest autistic people are more or less racist / xenophobic than the rest of the population. There are some individual, nonreplicated studies that do show outliers in either direction, but y'know, for every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD. [There is also research that suggests autistic people may be more susceptible to radicalization in any direction](https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/JIDOB-11-2016-0022/full/html)*,* because many of us struggle with abstract reason, black and white / absolutist thinking and forms of empathy, but this is based on rare outlier cases. There are a number of high-profile cases wherein autism may have played a role in a violent offender's behaviour, too. And with that said, with every anecdote is an equal and opposite anecdote. I spent a year working with a community deradicalization program and I gotta tell you dude, I met me some autistic nazis. If you pay enough attention to white supremacist groups you are going to notice a lot of these dudes have some kind of social developmental problem, and it's often autism. Sometimes it's [traumatic brain injury](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20642322/), sometimes it's a mental illness due to a [severely fucked up childhood](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09546553.2020.1767604) -- either way, autism and autism-adjacent experiences are pretty common among bigots as well as antibigots. Anecdotally, almost every autistic person I have met in real life has had some kind of bigotry reflective of the environment that they've grown up in. Because I'm from a poor-to-working-class area of Australia, this is most often homophobia, transphobia and Islamophobia. I used to work in an adult ed. program for kids with developmental disorders and bro, I had to deal with explicitly racist bullying in classrooms, particularly a fucking **saga** where a bunch of the white students (who coincidentally were verbal) decided that autism affects Asian people "more," in a way that makes them lesser, because the handful of Vietnamese students we had were either nonverbal or extremely restricted in verbal speech. I could say whatever I had to say about that in the classroom, but dude. Once, literally minutes after I sat down and explained to these white boys that their beliefs have no basis, that there are just as many verbal autistic Asian people as white people, that race doesn't affect the presentation of autism, etc., I overhear their parents in the hallway asking "how come all the d-nk kids were dismissed early" and "ch-nks even get special treatment in r-tard schools, that's why everybody thinks they're good at math." I also worked with a lot of students who were ***BIG TIME*** homophobic and unable to escape that: I was told directly by my employers that if I challenged or did anything to address the views they would constantly express to staff, other students, members of the public, etc., that I would be fired because "it's wrong to force disabled people to see the world our way." Basically, bigotry that is permanently enshrined in these people because their parents suck ass and the nice liberals helping them infantilize them too much to respect their bigotry as an adult belief. One of these kids expressed he's trans, had chosen a masc name, insisted on he/him pronouns, only for the other staff (all nice old white ladies) to insist that this is a "delusion" because "she doesn't really understand what 'being a boy' means" and would constantly remind him he has a vergoina whenever he insisted he be called his preferred name. The other students saw and began to imitate this, so essentially, this one kid was bullied relentlessly for being trans I keep saying "kids" but these people were all 18 - 25 years old. Our oldest student toward the end was (very inappropriately) a 57 year old man, but he was an outlier. So idk. There's no empirical research that can actually be said to show a meaningful trend one way or another, and in my experience, we are way more susceptible to the kinds of narratives that make us bigots of some flavour than not. Even in this thread you have a knobjockey playing the "kids are identifying as cats" bullshit. It just isn't real man. Autism doesn't make people less bigoted. It's always been environment.
Oh boy, i some of the most racist people i know are autistic lmao.
As with all things, autistic people are still individuals. Xenophobia has little to do with being ND or NT and more to do with the culture you’re raised in and what you believe. There are raging autistic racists, xenophobes, homophobes, sexists, etc,. The part about perceiving people as human first isn’t necessarily true either. This typically has to do with empathy; which again, differs from person to person. There are tons of autistic people whose first move is to categorise people because that is how their brain is wired to perceive the world around them; sort things into clean boxes.
In general yes, but I’ve also met an autistic neo-nazi before.
No unfortunately there are an astonishing number of autistic people who reside on 4chan and put their bigoted bullshit on blast 24 hours a day. There is actually a concerning amount of autistic people who take out their anger on other minorities
I believe autistic people, like anyone else in societies where discrimination levels are high toward certain minorities \[like many western societies\], are still susceptible to implicit biases, and that those biases can make themselves known in micro-aggressions or other forms of conduct that may not be pre-meditated. I've been around plenty of autistic people where it was obvious they were not race blind or unaware of the implicit social categorization of people into castes in some way, and they would make plenty of cringe-worthy comments about minorities. When it comes to pre-meditated and loud forms of bigotry as encouraged by peer pressure or more overt cultural pressures, I guess it really depends on the individual and how they were raised TBH. Some autistic people may have some greater ability to rationalize around the perpetuation of overt bigotry by neurotypicals, and see the lunacy in all of it, but some individuals can get wrapped up in it all the same if their personal or social situation encourages it.
I would say we’re more likely to be xenophobic, because we have less/dysfunctional empathy, higher levels of social phobia, lower levels of social bonding and engagement. Sort of like a perfect storm for xenophobia really.
Me personally, I do feel wary around those with eourpean hertige, especially if it’s one that has colonial history and if they brag about it a lot. But that’s cause of my own truama as someone who is not fully eourpean American in America. Otherwise idgaf if you have cultural food though I’m gonna wanna try it
I mean, idk if that' the case for you, but if you'e from a country that got colonized by a European country (or just any country) I think it's natural to be war around Europeans, especially considering how nowadays a lot of them act like they are morally above most other nations and so accepting and diverse, when they'e not. And I'm saying this as a European.
Im in America, and I’m Irish, welsh and Mexican. Colonized by spainards and British folk
No, I don't think there's generally a correlation personally. Autistic people are just as diverse as neurotypicals and I've met many of hard-headed, right-wing and racist autistics.
Interestingly, I have heard the exact opposite association, right here on Reddit, regarding incels, as they tend to be associated both with autism and the far-right.
That sort of logic has often been used as an apologism for cultural (and other) genocide so I would advise you to be a bit more critical about it.
Are you talking about Native Americans for example? I think there is a big difference between peaceful immigration (something happening in my country right now) and colonization where entire nations get exterminated, displaced, or suffer horrific forms of oppression by the colonizer. I'm most certainly not being colonized or oppressed by Black African or Arab expats coming to my country
I wouldn't say I'm racist or xenophobic but I'd be over stimulated if I'm in a train full of people from countries with very loud cultures. China, Philippines, Myanmar are some of them. They'd talk loudly in the train here and when it's a train full of them, I'm often so over stimulated I want to die. However, If they were quiet people like at 6am trains where people just commute quietly to work, I'd be fine. But I think I fail at being more tolerant for certain groups of people under certain conditions.
I’ve experienced the opposite where autistic ppl will lean into racism in order to fit in more with ppl who would otherwise reject them
Ehhhh... I think we're less likely to be racist over-all (I have a theory that people who've faced discrimination tend to empathize with each other), but I've also met EXTREMELY racist autistic people. It is difficult to make a generalization I think.
My theory: autistic people often don't respect hierarchy. We can recognise it and see a purpose it serves in some situations like workplaces needing management, government needing leaders, etc. but we don't see those individuals as being any different or any more deserving than other people. Racism is just a made up hierarchy that serves no purpose so we disregard it entirely. Of course, we are not a monolith and this won't apply to all of us, and we are still people who are influenced by societal standards.
Oh trust me, since hate and racism is a learned behavior, there are those on the spectrum who hold those beliefs.
I think it comes down to the individual and how they access info. I do a lot of stuff around Welsh independence from the UK, and you would think nationalism and wanting to break away from Westminster/England would come with some xenophobia maybe resentment, but it doesnt, there are a lot of autistic people in the Welsh indy scene and I can say pretty much all of them I have met hate Westminster and most of them royals, but not the people of England. They all have a strong sense of injustice politically, and want to share their culture outside their country rather than some sense of keeping it to themselves. These people all also are very clued up on world issues for the most part and came to similar conclusions from their own research. But on the flip side, I know a few super racist autistics who see multiculurism with a sense of injustice and they really struggle to put themselves in other peoples shoes when I try to level with them about refugees and other issues. They are quite easy to convince with facebook posts etc, they will take it entirely as truth rather than research further or fact check, and there is no point at all aruguing even if you can entirely prove it false. So I think a lot of it is about data gathering and how we are people come to conclusions about that data. My general experience is if you are more likely to give a post scrutiny by looking into it, you come to less bigoted conclusions. I think also something has to be said about the cameleon in the group effect. I know one dude who supports a football club that has no relevance to him, and because of that club it shapes his political and also racist views.... But its entirely because he wants to fit in with a certain group at a certain pub.
Probably not much different from the general population, since my dad who is autistic spews slurs like there’s no tomorrow Being autistic doesn’t excuse you from being a POS
I have an autistic uncle and he’ll go on tirades about other cultures being barbaric and readily uses the N word, hard R. He’s also a total asshole, beyond the typical lack of social awareness you’d expect. So who’s to say haha. Im just word vomiting here but I wonder if maybe older generations of autistic people tend to be meaner because they were never diagnosed or accepted for their quirks. Maybe the decades of feeling rejected by society and told all their problems were just character flaws made them bitter. Maybe then they take it out on others through racism and stuff. Obvs I’m also generalizing but yeah, interesting to think about
I think that due to our own experience of being different, we are less likely to be prejudiced towards minorities or groups which are hated. You have to remember that “society” (aka heterosexual, white, cisgender, neurotypical, able-bodied, rich, Christian men) has a lot of people they hate: People of colour (racism) Foreigners (xenophobia and racism) Women (sexism) LGBTQ+ (homophobia, transphobia) Neurodivergents (ableism) People who aren’t able-bodied (ableism) People of different religions (antisemitism, islamophobia and more) The poor (classism) So naturally members of these groups are more likely to be supportive than those in the category of those who run “society.” Although that’s just my opinion.
My outgroups are a carefully carefully curated, unique set, though they might seem pretty arbitrary from the outside.
Im not sure ... I personally feel some kind of xenophobia in me unfortunately But it's not like i hate them, I'm just afraid of people with different culture/habits/way of thinking
I’m extremely curious about other languages and cultures. I love trying new cuisines. Differences are very exciting and a part of humanity.
Autistic racist people definitely exist, we are not immune to prejudice. That said, since we’re less in touch with our own cultures’ norms, we might notice less when other cultures have different norms.
I think the short answer is how _logical_ we are. We tend to evaluate the data rather than the impression. Detail-oriented, detail-first. (fd: I wont get diagnosed until october)
The great replacement scare carries little sting when you're already part of the outgroup. This may explain why Jews played a disproportionate role in leftism. When your people are second class citizens dating back even before the trans atlantic slave trade, you tend to favor more equality and tolerance.
I'm not sure about the discussion in general, but I am definitely one of those autistics who don't hate people based on a single aspect of their identity. I am an anomaly though. It makes me sad to say this, but my whole family is racist and xenophobic (mostly based on race though). We live in South Africa and my family are Afrikaners. There are definitely other autistic members in my family, I didn't get it out of thin air. I'm kind of an outcast within my own family, not because of my autism, but because I don't tolerate their racism and they are not allowed to talk about their religious beliefs in my presence. I'm also atheist. I just see people and I am acutely aware that I don't know them. I can come across as racist in public due to my sensory overload though and I genuinely hate when that happens because I have this thing about the truth being told, and when people assume I'm being racist when I have the exact same reaction to people from my own culture it really urks me.
Possibly on average, but I think autistic people tend to be pushed more to the extremes of politics thanks to facing discrimination. Probably most autistic people grow to want to fight oppression and become very progressive, recognising the parallels between different forms of discrimination and becoming against it in all forms, but unfortunately facing discrimination along with the communication barrier between us and NTs and our generally more trusting nature makes autistic people much more prone to far-right/fascist indoctrination. As a median average, we're probably less xenophobic than the general population, but as a mean average quite possibly not, given the extreme xenophobia of fascists.
I've seen statements that autistic and neurodivergent people in general can have a very strong sense of justice. There are also hyper-empathic neurodivergent people and hypo-empathic neurodivergent people. Not sure if these are just observations by our community or if this is already studied. Like RSD, it could be a very common thing that is for some reason just not part of the diagnostic criteria. In my experience autistics are either very empathic or almost not at all so maybe you just met the empathic ones and therefore think we are less xenophobic. But just look at Elon, he claims to be autistic and he doesn't give a f about the environment, his employees and he is incredibly racist and prone to conspiracy theories, we certainly are not all the same
I don't know if it's a part of Autism or just individual morals and ethics, but I think it's linked to the strong sense of justice thing we tend to have. I don't 'see' race or gender, everyone is equal and I honestly struggle to see why people can't just accept each other as humans. Everyone seems transfixed on historical discretions, and desecrations which are used not as lessons to learn from, but wedges and weapons to further drive everyone apart. If any individual displays negative qualities (unlawful, or harmful) then they are judged as an individual. If any individual displays positive qualities (lawful, helpful) then they are judged as an individual.
I know exactly one autistic person who is xenophobic, but hes plenty racist enough to make up for the rest of us.
It’s more a case of being acutely aware of your own “otherness”, which leads to empathy for perceived difference in others.
No, and I think this is dangerous thinking. There seems to be a growing feeling that autistic people = accepting, kind, don't lie, are somehow better at communicating. It's simply not true. I think if anything the opposite is true, look at 4chan and the incel community for example. Full of prejudiced autistic people.
Difficult one. Some, like you say, may not perceive race/ethnicity/nationality/identity the same way as NT people because of the inherent way they map out people and the world. Others may struggle with the unfamiliar, like differences in culture/custom which compound existing difficulties already present within one's *own* culture concerning conventions and social cues. And ND people wouldn't necessarily be immune to prejudices (conscious or otherwise). I think also a feature of some ND traits is seeking out patterns, including (real or perceived) behavioural patterns, which might be a conduit for prejudice. If any stats ever showed that ND folk are *consciously* less xenophobic on the whole, it might be from a sense of empathy with fellow 'outsiders', and maybe explains why the openly ND community tends to be broadly socially progressive on the whole. I guess it just depends on your form of neurodivergence, what your self-awareness is like and your life experience to date.
There is *some* evidence that autistic people are less likely to apply preconceived notions about groups of people to their expectations of individuals. However, I'd be *very* careful about taking this as proof that you're immune to prejudice. You probably aren't.
For me specifically, if I'm accepted into any group it's such a rarity I end up overlooking a lot of ongoing social problems with the group itself, so I'm fairly open minded. But it's not like I'm purposefully being benevolent, I just have limited options. My autistic cousins are more prone to getting involved in cults or gangs for similar reason, but they are seldom fully accepted members by the groups themselves due to quirks and low social skills. In the 00s, I was accepted into a diverse clique with a lot of gay people, in a conservative high school. It was a mishmash of miscellaneous folk that didn't fit in to the other cliques, with a lot of theatre kids. I hadn't met gay people prior to this but it was taboo to be one. Had I been desirable socially and fit in with the popular kids, I likely wouldn't have hung out with these folks due to the stigma. But since I was low on the social totem pole of the school, I couldn't afford to be picky about my friends, or else I'd have none. We ended up becoming great friends, and I am still close with them 18 years later. Queer culture is very accepting of differences and there's some overlap with autistic people, so I'm glad to have met them. I'm very lucky. My brother is autistic and extremely homophobic, xenophobic, racist, and transphobic. He has a very rigid idea of 'normal' and anything that doesn't meet a black and white standard is unacceptable. He is also unable to hide his disgust when meeting people that don't fit in with his idea of normal. Our autistic father is similar.
A lot of incels claim to be autistic. I do agree that for myself and the people I know, we would probably personally relate to bigotry making zero sense to us, but there are plenty of awful autistic people too.
Ever since I was a child, I've been telling people that I don't differenciate human beings and I hate dividing or categorizing them. The only race I know is the human race and nothing else. Then they would react like "Aww, that's a good way of thinking. You're so nice". Bro, I'm not nice. I'm just spitting facts. Why would you want to create this division so bad? Can't we all just unite and accept each other? We are the same. Btw, I don't know if I'm autistic or not... Still looking for answers.
Autism does not make us monoliths. We are first and forempst gumans impacted by our own social context, eras, etc. Yes many autistic people do recognize patterns, and many of us are indeed keen on social issues, and often are part of marginalised groups which hightens our chances of actually caring and not agreeing with any -phobia. Some autistic people can still be raging racists, xenophobes, etc. Maybe their autism can influence how they perceive people from other countries as a change in their racist/xenophobic routine... idk. And idk if its that useful for anyone to try to evaluate or know. but i would not go on the terrain that autism systematically hightens our chances of "getting it right" when it comes to the moral compass We have to be mindful of the echo-chamber effect we can find among social media/internet spaces, and/or friend groups where you can share values, experiences and opinions. Its very nice to have spaces where we can feel heard, understood, and like we belong. But that in itself cannot give us some "scientific sample of reproductible observation" when it comes to autistic people as a whole. Just as we have many varieties of levels of needs/support, we also have the full spectrum when it comes to personal values. Foe example, i used to know an autistic white dude that got the privilege of being diagnosed very early. Rich family, had someone paid to personally help him out growing up. I am from the countryside where most people are white, there isnt luch diversity in activities, professions, and tbh... most of them were homophobic and xenophobic, not only against immigrants but even people coming from another region. That guy grew up to be somewhat of a right minded fascist compatible. I personally didnt grow up like he did. I am queer, and radically aligned with movements of intersectional liberation. We both grew up in the same place. We both are neurodivergent. But that didnt make us similar. Idk what percentage autistic xenophobes/racists/lgbtphobes would take up in the global autostic population. But even if they were a minority, they exist. I would hope that majority of autistic people are more sensible to social struggles, intersectionnality, etc... but that is also i fluenced by the neurodivergent people i have met in my spaces irl + on the internet. All could be biased.
I'm not sure, but from my experience, I *want* to travel and see other cultures, learn new languages, and eat some good food. I've never been able to leave the country due to cost but I have travelled around the US a bit. Even just meeting different people in my own country is interesting. That said, I'm sure that even though I am mixed race and therefore it doesn't make sense for people to be racist, I probably said or did things that could be seen as racist and not realized it or had pointed out to me. I treat everyone with the same general politeness but some people's cultures may see what I think is polite as rude, so it's hard to tell. I don't consider myself as consciously, maliciously, or intentionally racist or xenophobic. I love seeing all cultures and I want to learn more. I feel like I'm an outsider looking in on people and I want to be able to relate to them more (cue "Part of Your World" from Little Mermaid). I mean, hell, in some cultures, *smiling* is rude, but I smile at everyone so it's not like I know offhand what would be okay unless someone points it out to me. I'm mostly left-handed and tend to wave at people with my left hand, but if someone appears Middle Eastern to me, I use my right hand since it's insulting. Making a "one" gesture with your index fingernail pointed toward someone in most cultures is fine, but in Japan it is essentially flipping someone off. Showing someone the bottom of your shoes is insulting in most African countries. It's normal to throw small trash on the floor at a restaurant in Spain since they sweep the floor constantly but here it's rude. Slurping your food is okay in most Asian cultures but almost everywhere else, not so much. Basically what I'm saying is, I don't think a lot of us choose to be shitty toward other ethnicities and races, just like we don't usually choose to be shitty to our own ethnicities or races. I think a lot of our perceived shittiness would be most likely miscommunication and ignorance, but not in a purposefully mean way.
I’ve seen the opposite honestly, I had a friend that I ditched because she said genuinely disgusting things about non-western cultures unprompted and then claimed she was totally right because she was autistic and therefore viewing things objectively (after calling middle Eastern people animals with no society and trash talking all of South America, then making fun of me for speaking Spanish)
If I recall, it’s not unheard of for cishet autistic men to be sexist. Also, Elon Musk is autistic and he’s fascist.
Same. But im autistic, and a traditional fundamentalist Catholic.
It's hard to hate people based on factors they can't control when you've been hated most of your life because of factors you can't control.
What I noticed is that I personally don't understand why people dislike "unusual" things. I just dgaf what people do if they're happy and it dosen't harm anyone.
This might just be my personal experience but as a white autistic who grew up in a very diverse community other cultures where always nicer to me ab my autism than white people 😭
Definitely not true for autistic men I've known, and funny enough that's true regardless of their race. Generally, most autistic men I know have a huge issue with modern social justice because, well, frankly, they're not just entirely excluded from today's socially appropriate definition of "victim", but they're often heralded as having all sorts of privilege if they're white -- despite that being an autistic is quite the opposite of a privilege. Also, autistic guys are far more likely to make social faux pas about anything, so that of course also includes racial topics. All it takes is one unintentional comment that even remotely smells racist, and those autistic guys get labelled as such, and then come to deeply resent today's world.
I think that just as in NTs, the xenophobic ones are just more quiet about it. They light be autistic, but they can still clearly see that their view is socially unacceptable. Though I do truly believe there are less of us with the vilify to hate things that are different. Cuz then we’d hate NTs too.
I’ve also noticed I notice way less about other people’s bodies. Unless it’s something really off or someone is intentionally trying to draw attention to it. For example, I went to Disney recently with distant relatives. They all notice minor details on people around us. I pretty much only noticed two people. One was a very drunk girl who wasn’t wearing any shoes. I really only noticed because she was drunk yelling. The second was a lady who was barreling around a corner, and I noticed she probably had a breast augmentation (once did a plastic surgery science deep dive, I’m not a creep, I swear) because before I dodged her they were directly in front of my eyes. They notice other things about people like their weight, acne, hair, clothing, whatever. I don’t have the mental bandwidth to take in that info when I’m out in public.
A lot of us know what it’s like to be different and don’t hate others for being different.
Yep, one of the main reasons just over 8 years ago I voted remain for Brexit was because unlike most of the original leave voters, I don't hate immigrants, legal or otherwise. I just have a low tolerance of the incredibily annoying language barrier between myself and some of my support staff who don't speak very good English. However, I'm not racist, I hate almost everyone equally whether they're black, white or an Elephant.
Absolutely disagree. This is much the same as the "autistics are more fair because they care about justice" kind of take that paints autistic people as angelic beings of good and righteousness. It's tempting to want to believe, but it's just not true. There is just as much stereotyping and bias and "isms" present amongst neurodivergent people. Autistic people of colour often talk about how unwelcomed they feel or how much lack of cultural awareness and racial bias is perpetuated within autistic communities that are predominantly white. It's just like many online autistic communities being dominated by those with lower support needs and speaking on behalf of all autistics. Not to say that that perspective is invalid at all, but it is incomplete and not representative of the autistic experience as a whole, but is often considered or presented as such. It's really dangerous to think this way as it leaves people thinking they're okay without having to question their biases or how intersectionality might affect other autistics. Autistic people are not immune to this stuff. In fact, sometimes that rigidity of thinking we can have can make it harder to let go of our biases or worldviews that we have learned, or to admit when we are wrong. Fidgets and Fries on Instagram talks about this a lot from the perspective of a black autistic woman in the US as well as from levels of different support needs, but there are likely others as well. It's also really important to learn how racism is often systemic in ways that we are blind to when it doesn't impact us, and how we also may have racist beliefs or ways of thinking/behaving in more subconscious ways than openly hating someone for their race or ethnicity. I'm sorry if this comes across as blunt. It would be nice if we, as autistics, were able to see through that stuff as part of that lauded pattern recognition, and just not be a part of it, but unfortunately we are not immune. It's systemic. It's subconscious. It's not always overt, although sometimes it is, even for autistics. I also don't really know how to communicate about it effectively as something that affects me in a personal way, that I feel, rather than being able to articulate clearly. It's also tiring. I hope we can get to that point, and perhaps autistic people will help lead us there. But we are not free from racism.
My family is slightly racist, but I am not. I also have racism OCD, so idk I'm very very against racism, and always have been. I'm also gay, obviously
Autism makes rational thinking rather thank emotional thinking, specifically in social related discussion. Try it yourself, discuss any matter with a NT that has a strong opinion on inmigrants and seek mutual points of view, there may be but if you wander around through the discussion you should notice how your differences are greater/more different than NTs having them. Everyone is different, but some are more different, and this is autism key factor. Works also on other social-trusting discussions such as political, religion, social controversies like vaccines, etc.
Not from what I’ve seen. I haven’t noticed any difference in racism and xenophobia within neurodivergent communities. It’s just as bad, but at least NTs don’t tell me that their disability made them do it, or called me an ableist for being upset by it.
Actually, I think so too. I myself is probably the opposite of xenophobic. I love seeing people with different nationalities and culture, and someday I want to travel the world. I also tend to be more comfortable being with people who are with different ethnicity rather than my own. I love songs from different countries, even more so than my native language. I don't get people who are racists and have prejudices against other nationalities because I love seeing different kinds of people in the world.
I would not call myself xenophobic but you probably would call me that. I have not been diagnosed but I strongly suspect that I am autistic.
In just way to autistic to care enough to discriminate
IMO, yes. I want open borders personally.
Not really
I wouldn't generalize a whole group with such a touchy subject. However I will say that autistic people would likely have a harder time with people of certain cultures or countries who may have a hard time speaking clearly or are pushing their culture's values where it may not be appropriate.
Maybe those rejected understand better the other ones who are rejected. But that implies to be rejected and not have firm simplistic views.
Well yes
this main post is about race and ethnicity so this isn't rlly relevant at all, but i disagree with waiting tilll they're 18 before exposing them to things about drugs, alcohol, sex and all that "taboo" stuff. you know where a kid would first learn about sex? first from other kids, and then the internet. they'd learn about it before they're 10 (the 10 year olds on my school bus told me and all the other kids all about sex when i was 7), regardless of when the school decides to give anyone proper sex ed. there is basically no way for kids to not be exposed to this kinda stuff before they're 18, not when sex is this really "cool", "mature", "taboo", and "adult" thing to talk about among kids. now, i don't think schools should talk about these taboo topics to those who are any younger than 12, but they should aim to inform those who are 12 or older about these things. kids around that age need and deserve to know how to keep themselves safe and healthy. many ppl i know have already lost their virginity before they're 18. would have been a real shame if they didn't know what condoms were or how to use them.
hypothetically, it makes sense, and thats also kinda what ive experienced but thats mostly online with people that know theyre autistic, but ive heard of some autistic people being super into racism, maybe an easy way to fit in could be mutual hatred, or just they dont think about it cause theyre so angry at the world... I could also see someone falling into a false logic about the world basically probably less, but not really not
I guess autistic people know what it's like to be judged unfairly and won't judge others as harshly. And I know plenty of autistics who are racist.
I prefer cultures that are less annoying to me than my own country's culture, but I mostly prefer to be around Slavic people, excluding most Russians. I like some of the less materialistic Western European countries too.
Homogeneous communities are easier for me as there's less social rules to have to understand among all the different cultures and more order to things. Also when loads of people around me are speaking different languages it makes my sensory overload worse.
Well supposedly autistic people have increased empathy that includes non-humans. I'm obviously not saying ethnic/racial minorities or foreigners are non-human, but I suspect that this tendency helps span the gap such that those who are different from us seem more sympathetic. It doesn't require a subjective familiarity. Also there's the fact that we know what it's like to be different.
I think we are less predisposed to being socially influenced to be discriminatory in that way, naturally we seem to question these sort of things more. We do have positive communities as well, but I've definitly met insanely racist and prejudice autsitic people, one of my friends whos autisitc is somewhat prejudice and one of the reasons, far from the main one, is that he's incredibly naive and stubborn, which for me isn't a good excuse he's that by choice for the most part. Autsitic communities seem to tend towards being more accepting, but general statements such as we are more tolerant aren't true.
Are you a person of color? Have you experienced colorism or any discrimination on the basis of your ethnicity? (if the answer is no, HOW are you getting a sample size for these anecdotal and frankly irresponsible claims?) This concept is ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so blunt because I get why you'd feel this way. I understand that outright hate is rare and autistics generally seem to be empathetic and morally upright. HOWEVER, autism can also cause some major fuckin blind spots (i know firsthand) and racism is NOT outright hate from a few jerks. It is **a systemic form of oppression built into our society's institutions**, from the criminal justice system to healthcare and school systems. It's embedded in our country's foundational beliefs and policies. Racism/other isms is the erosion of credibility and choices for anyone who faces multiple barriers on the basis of who they are. It has literally *nothing to do with how nice you are*. Nice people can be awful, ignorant, unsafe racists and still have a loving family and upstanding status. see, literally all politicians ever. Being autistic does not and will never excuse anyone from being a terrible person, making harmful mistakes, participating in our racist society as a functional member who upholds privilege, or being really blind and close-minded to other people's experiences and needs. I think this type of rhetoric (that you have so boldly posted here) can make spaces feel FAR less safe and inclusive to people of color. So despite your evidence (of how amazing and colorblind autistics are) this post is actually evidence of the opposite, of how perfectly nice, accepting people can perpetuate and even normalize racial aggression and out-grouping. I'm not saying you should feel bad, I just really want people to think about this on a deeper level and with the humility to recognize that we are **all always** ignorant to the people who have it worse than us, and asserting that they are probably fine doesn't say what we think it does about us.
i wouldn’t say this is true tbf i’ve seen some autistic people who are incredibly racist, homophobic and xenophobic because of their rigid thinking. even people who part of the communities that they’re discriminating against Z
I feel like in general autistic people understand what it feels like to be a minority, so they’re more accepting of other minorities. Idk that’s probably too broad of a generalization but it makes sense to me
I think for many people who feel or are different are likely to be more accepting of others who are as well. But as many have said in this thread it's not the best thing to make large generalizations, this is just based on what I have personally witnessed.
I think we might be more tolerant towards other groups and cultures because we never fit in. And we tend to think with logic rather than fully emotional. (Even if we confuse the two sometimes) Like for example if someone wants to walk around with studs all over their body, be my guest. It doesn’t affect me in any way. I might think it’s a bit weird but who am I to judge? Maybe we might have a broader understanding of how other people aren’t like us, because we’re not like neurotypicals. We never exactly fit in. But that’s okey, and there’s nothing wrong with looking or acting differently (as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone). Or maybe we’re more accepting because we want to be accepted by others? Who knows! Disclaimer: these are just my own theories. I’m not trying to generalize every autistic person as there’s also autistic people out there who don’t understand that other people are different. (Kinda like how a parent might expect their child to be like them, which of course isn’t the case)
Even if everybody here will answer that no, they are not racist and neither are their autistic friends, this tells you nothing about general tendencies of autistic people. I can give you several anecdotal evidence to the opposite by working with autistic teens: \* Some have less filters, which means often they would say something perceived as racist (not always being deliberately racist), that NTs usually know is perceived as racist and would therefore not say in public or reformulate to not sound racist. I had several kids bowing to a SE-Asian-looking assistance, the way they saw Japanese people on TV do, without thinking this might be perceived as much more racist than simply saying thanks to her . \* Some really do have racist views. The amount of racist and antisemitic views I have heard from autistic people would be surprising, but reflects mostly the families they grew up in and echoing things they hear at home. Again, NT kids who know what their teacher expects to hear, would use such statements only in cases of provocation, but would know that these are not acceptable views \* Some autistic teens \*are\* aware that it is racist and hurtful, but lack of understanding of the appropriate way or social context to express their grievances. I had for example a student who was insulted by a fellow student of colour, and his impulsive reaction was to use the N-word against the offender.
So true. I was ostracized at school and so were the foreign kids, we had that to bond over.
Double edged sword in a way I think. I'd say we generally have a more intimate understanding of being "othered" as we're so often outcasts. So that sympathy and empathy goes a long way. But it also can drive a desire to "belong". Belonging to a group is often a very foreign concept to many of us. A person will often desire what they don't have. I expect that the sympathy/empathy side is the dominant case in general. It's certainly what I've found. We also tend to lean much harder into logical thinking rather than emotional thinking. I'd expect that skews things even more away from xenophobia. But then, eugenics is very "logical" in ways and that shit's evil. IDK.
I have seen autistics who were on both ends of the spectrum. I don’t think we are less likely than NTs to be xenophobic.
I don't know about y'all but I've never been a big sports fan or cared enough about a brand to shell out an extra $30. I think we feel tribalism to a lesser extent and react much less to "them" vs "us" rhetoric
Spending the majority of your life being othered is a great reason to not do it to other marginalised groups.
When everyone feels like a strange foreign being ANY OF THEM really strange foreign beings?
I feel that autistic individuals are especially susceptible to falling into white supremacist pipelines. They specifically target young people who feel alone in the world. Autistic people can also be more vulnerable to being manipulated. Those autistics that want connections are often desperately looking for a place they feel accepted, welcome, + safe. White supremacists can create these kind of spaces to recruit more into their movements Especially since I'd imagine a good chunk of autistics feel rejected by society + totally disillusioned with the world. Being told it's this one group of people ruining it for you + you can have the life you always wanted if only the minorities are dealt with may be too appealing for some
I just hate all people equally. So not the best person to ask.
Isn't this take what they call "aspie supremacy"? I'd be super careful with this kind of thinking.
Well, I was talking about autistic folks in general, not just aspies. And no, I'm not saying that we as autistics are inherently superior to neurotypicals
I know a few autistic men who are racist as can be.
Most autistic people suck at visualizing, so it seems likely to me we have a lot less of a sense of identity/being part of a group. So I would suspect a lot less xenophobia as that is caused by seeing someone as the outside of a group.
This is the first I've heard of autistic people having trouble visualizing, I don't think most of us have aphantasia. Where did you hear this? Pretty much every autistic person I know has a vivid imagination.
I know from myself an I also read a few studies. There has been a large correlation found between people being trans and autistic, something like 12 times more likely. The main theory I have heard is that because they are bad at abstraction they are more open to coming up with an identity that fits them. also being bad at abstraction is one of the reasons it's often hard for autistic people to stop making the same mistakes in certain contexts.
I hate others based on stupid behavior. People are also attracted to a specific type of appearance when it comes to dating, and I got nothing wrong with that since I'm the same way. Although being prejudice is totally unacceptable
Yes, because we are more rational, and prejudice is irrational
One has to be careful of selection bias, but I can believe it. People of any identity group you care to name don't have a monopoly on good or bad qualities. It makes far more sense to treat people as individuals who have their own virtues and vices. It's part of some cultures or subcultures to be especially nervous around members of the outgroup. I'd think bottom up thinking entails more drawing from your own experience and ignoring folk knowledge than top down thinking. Further, empirical knowledge suggests that most people in identity groups are, if not necessarily angels, aren't really evil either. It also seems common for people to abandon hate groups once they actually get to know members of the outgroup. They were members more as a kind of default than a carefully considered position. In other words, racism and such is frequently top-down thinking, understanding the environment in terms of what was learned from others rather than bottom up, details of your environment influencing your understanding. You meet one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. The ASD person's preference for bottom up thinking is probably not universal nor does it necessarily overrule one's top down thinking in every situation. It seems a general trend though. I'd expect that to reduce prejudice, on the average.
You end your post with "why do some people refuse to follow this basic logic?" By this, you are saying that your post is basic logic and other people who have a different opinion on contemporary migration do not have a logical basis for saying that. That is an intolerant and insulting thing to think or say. Please just be aware that people who have a different opinion on migration and how we should handle it, especially illegal migration, are not automatically also xenophobic, racist, hating, or one of the other keywords you used. Only then, real dialogue is possible. If not, there is no reason to reply about the issue itself, because if people who think migration isn't preferable at this moment for their country are regarded as xenophobic, people-hating individuals, you're not going to respect their opinion anyway. If I misinterpreted your post let me know if you want. But there are words in there that I think shouldn't. Happy to talk about it.
I've got autism and I'm okay with all this LGBTQ+ stuff if it's what the person genuinely wants that'll make them happy. Basically as long as you aren't hurting anyone else, you should be able to do anything you want. If my best friend or whatever was gay, I wouldn't have an issue with it. What I disagree with is pushing it onto kids. Kids shouldn't know about this stuff until they're at least 18. It's the same with drugs, alcohol and sex. They're finding out that these things are "cool" when they're like 9 and it's killing youth mental health. In schools kids are identifying as cats and whatever, I believe it is morally wrong to allow that to be a thing and that it harms them in many ways. Like how there should not be 12 year olds smoking weed but there is.
I mean, I hear this argument all the time about the LGBTQ+ stuff, the 'pushing it onto kids' yet I've failed to witness any place where such a thing is happening besides the internet, and if people are letting their impressionable 9 year olds on TikTok, that's on them, not any community.
I mean, I hate Europe, but that’s just because of all of the colonization that they’ve done
Isn't hating a whole continent kinda weird?
Well, most of the countries that have colonies are European, so instead of listing a bunch of individual European colonist countries that I don’t like BECAUSE they’re colonists, I just say that I don’t like Europe.
Colonies? Which colonies?