There's a 135 that flys by my house a couple times a year. Even at 20-30,000 feet that motherfucker sounds like it's ripping a hole in space time. You can hear it for quite a while after it disappears in the horizon
Tons. I probably have more from when I worked F-22’s. But here are a few of my favorite from the old days:
We once convinced EOD blow up a kids CDC’s (career development course books) when we were at Balad Ab, Iraq. He kept leaving his back pack at work when explicitly told not to. We all went out to watch the explosion in the infield with the kid. After they blew it up they told him it was his bag with his books.
We had a contract team show up to retrofit a BLOS (beyond line of sight) radio in one of our jets. The first tool they broke out was bolt cutters to remove wire harnesses. They got over zealous and cut two wrong harnesses. They were for flight controls and we had to replace both harnesses.
I once saw someone fail their PT test when they threw up. It was the very first exercise and he accomplished exactly 6 pushups. Apparently he exhausted himself to the point of puking.
My father was one of the first test pilots for the eagle and started up the fighter weapons school with another handful of guys at Nellis. Do you mind if I ask where you worked on the 15 at?
The Rock! Kadena AB Okinawa Japan, 83-86? The ZZ Birds! Talk about full circle, they just retired all the Kadena birds and sure as shit, 4 of them have been xfered to Barnes ANG base about 30 mimutes from me! Saw 2 of them about a month ago....
The F-22, the pinnacle of air combat fighters, that every nation in the world wants to catch up to? Will be 20 years of active service next December.
Shit, she's been flying for damn near 30 years already.
Every time i watch[ F-22 airshow demos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNTV86qOUMo), my monke brain neurons activate full afterburner. Damn, it moves so...
every time I read this comment, I think about how NGAD is already flying somewhere around area 51 (it is actually flying, no joke). How other nations will try to catch up to it is an amusing thought
My great-grandmother built B-52s, so I've been feeling old for a while haha
The F-16 and B-52 seem to draw some parallels, in that it seems they're going to be around forever, but even in that they are worlds apart. Both are ships of Theseus, but the F-16 far more so; it maintains the same general shape (save for those goofy CFTs) but a new block... what it is, 72? just has absolutely nothing in common with the original blocks. The B-52 is still basically the same airplane (save cockpit avionics) as it was in the 60s.
It is absolutely wild to consider the F-16 still being a front-line fighter, though! It's a testament to the original designers of that cheap, wee little fighter that it has been so incredibly adaptable throughout the last half century.
It also makes you think about how the F-16's generation (F-14, F-15, F-16 and to a lesser extent F/A-18) represented when we as a species really started to master jet air flight, rather than experimenting with it (century series springs to mind). The F-14 didn't last as long as the others due to politics and just a little too much specialization (and a little too much maintenance required) but it was still considered the pinnacle of its craft.
Now, we seem to be going back to the days of GP aircraft like the F-4 and F-111; we shall see how that goes, I suppose.
We already are back to multi-purpose aircraft. That was the biggest selling point of the latter half of 4th generation aircraft. The F-14 and F-15 showed up on the scene being a little more specialized than their smaller brethren (the F-16 and F/A-18), but they still had/have multi-role capability, even if it was a little later in their lifespans.
Also small nitpick, but the F/A-18 still falls into the 4th generation category. The current Super Hornet and later block models of the F-16 are considered 4.5 gen by most. I wouldn’t consider the F-4 or F-111 to be “general purpose” aircraft too. The Phantom was built first and foremost as a fighter but received ground attack capabilities.
The F-111’s a little bit weirder though. It received the F designation but was designed as a fast, low flying ground attack aircraft that could truck a shit ton of bombs. Its air-to-air capabilities are rather limited to say the least, and it was never used in such a role.
Ehh, the USAF operated the F4 in an attack role from the beginning. It was every bit of a multi role fighter and even the first variant that was received by the USN/USMC had a bombing computer installed on it, although they primarily used it for A2A and fleet defense.
I was a kid the ‘Join Strike Fighter’ was some uber cool superweapon from the Military Channel, the F-22 was the glimpse of the future.
Now there’s over 1000 F-35s, F-22 is old news, and the NGAD is the uber cool superweapon.
Spent my youth watching/hearing the Century Series of jets at Nellis. Got to where we could identify fighters by their engine noise. This was back when breaking sound barrier and rattling windows was common there
This is a problem in aviation and ship building. The gap time between projects results in collective knowledge loss. F35 was the last fighter designed, from like 15 years ago. That leaves 15 years of intellectual stagnation.
I'd argue that in today's era the knowledge of design is less important than the knowledge of operation. It's more important to have engineers that understand the maintenance consequences of an over complicated mechanical package or the software problems of trying to update a system that talks to a component made by another manufacturer. The design tools and processes are always changing, but there's always value in having your maintenance and operations knowledge pulled into design.
The world is transitioning to drone warfare. Which should render fighter jets a thing of the past. I personally don’t think fighter jets would ever be phased out. There’s just going to be less development money poured into it. As priorities change.
There is a bit of misconception here. The base of the aircraft is 50 years old but and latest standards like the F15E are not at all 50 years old. And they are not just a small change but most systems have changed.
Yeah, it's surprising. Still, if you look at the old F-16A block 10-15's, it's a much different bird today than back in 78/79.
Edit: I used to work on Block 10's. We had tails 79-3XX.
You worked as to build and repair it or as a pilot and saw everything on it? I was gonna ask for some histories but those may include info about a jet that still flies nowadays, right?
Nice pick. Interesting update/overhaul. If it's desired to stick with flying older aircraft, there's a 1909 Bleroit XI in NY. However, if flying is not required, there's a lovely manned, powered box kite hanging about the Smithsonian. Yes, that is my "annoy certain friends" name for the Kittyhawk Flyer.
It will still have mumble-teen years to catch up to me, so yes, I feel old, but not because of this plane. It is ageing far better than I am. I am still flying the Block 1 production run with battle damage.
I repaired/maintained the avionics on the engine instrumentation,, flight instrumentation, autopilot, inertial/doppler navigation, augmentation, fuel quantity, and a bunch of other stuff. I also worked a bunch of other large cargo aircraft in my 22 years active duty.
From 1980 to 1985, I worked for a VERY large government contractor in San Diego in their electronics division. From 1980 to 1982, I was assigned to a department that made components for F16 avionics. Later I was transferred to another department that built parts for the F111 avionics upgrade. Yes, I DO feel VERY old (74 y/o)..
Even though there has been some advancements in stealth and electronic welfare, I don’t think pure aviation has advanced much in 50 years. Commercial jets for example still fly the same speed as 50 years ago. And they are still as uncomfortable.
Commercial jets still fly the same speed because of economics, but materials, electronics, avionics and all that other stuff under the skin have changed enormously. Speed might be the same but range and operating cost per hour or per passenger mile have improved tremendously.
This is what I mean. There has been innovation, fair enough. But there has been no major paradigm shift from when my great grandfather flew as a passenger on a commercial jet.
You are mising my point. I disagree with you. Commercial aviation has changed tremendously in 50 years. The shape of the plane is not the only indicator of technological developmenet. The engines today bear little resemblance to their predecessors. Transoceanic flights are now made by aircraft with two engines instead of four. Traffic/terrain collision avoidance systems did not exist or were rudimentary 50 years ago. Direct GPS routing was not even a dream. CRM and basic safety protocols have reduced commercial aviation fatalities to almost zero per year recently. Fifty years ago five or six complete hull losses with hundreds of fatalities was a typical year. And all of that does not even mention the airlines' mastery of passenger discomfort.
Side note: your *great*-grandfather flew on commercial jets? One of my grandfathers was born in the 19th century and never flew on a commercial flight. I'm not sure his father ever knew that commercial aviation existed. I suspect that there is a lot about commercial aviation in the 1970s that you may be unaware of.
I understand what you're trying to say. It's more of a thought experiment for me. If I was flying in the 70s or 80s from Europe to Australia what major differences would I notice to now. The only major thing I can think of is one less stop. So at a macro level it's the same thing. \*Jet powered plane with cramped af seats that take you from airport to airport at around 900kmph\*. The Concorde was a step change in aviation. It doubled that speed.
There have been a ton of improvements in materials, design, efficiency and much more. Modern planes are quieter, smoother and significantly more economical. There just is a barrier in terms of speed after which point everything gets far more complicated, noisy and increasingly less efficient. That's the speeds around and over sound barrier.
And as far as faster planes for military use go, we don't need them anymore to run covert missions at mach 3. Satellites do that just fine and with minimal risk.
Laughs in KC-135 and B-52
I was at an air show that had a B-29 fly in that rolled off the line in 1945. The tail we flew in rolled off in 1957. Only 12 fucking years after!
Aviation technology felt like it developed far more rapidly back then. Well, at least from outward external appearances.
I heard B-29 was a good plane but I never expected it could fly for 12 years without a tail. Hats off to the engineers!
C-130 says hi.
There's a 135 that flys by my house a couple times a year. Even at 20-30,000 feet that motherfucker sounds like it's ripping a hole in space time. You can hear it for quite a while after it disappears in the horizon
The UH-1N would like to join this conversation
Worked on F-15s 42 years ago......
I worked block 30 F-16’s almost 20 years ago. I thought they were old then and they had 86-87 build dates.
Got any good stories to share?
Tons. I probably have more from when I worked F-22’s. But here are a few of my favorite from the old days: We once convinced EOD blow up a kids CDC’s (career development course books) when we were at Balad Ab, Iraq. He kept leaving his back pack at work when explicitly told not to. We all went out to watch the explosion in the infield with the kid. After they blew it up they told him it was his bag with his books. We had a contract team show up to retrofit a BLOS (beyond line of sight) radio in one of our jets. The first tool they broke out was bolt cutters to remove wire harnesses. They got over zealous and cut two wrong harnesses. They were for flight controls and we had to replace both harnesses. I once saw someone fail their PT test when they threw up. It was the very first exercise and he accomplished exactly 6 pushups. Apparently he exhausted himself to the point of puking.
My father was one of the first test pilots for the eagle and started up the fighter weapons school with another handful of guys at Nellis. Do you mind if I ask where you worked on the 15 at?
The Rock! Kadena AB Okinawa Japan, 83-86? The ZZ Birds! Talk about full circle, they just retired all the Kadena birds and sure as shit, 4 of them have been xfered to Barnes ANG base about 30 mimutes from me! Saw 2 of them about a month ago....
The F-22, the pinnacle of air combat fighters, that every nation in the world wants to catch up to? Will be 20 years of active service next December. Shit, she's been flying for damn near 30 years already.
Every time i watch[ F-22 airshow demos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNTV86qOUMo), my monke brain neurons activate full afterburner. Damn, it moves so...
r/planesexual
I wanted to believe this sub existed so much. That you for a moment of hope. Fuck you for the disappointment that followed
It does for you
r/planesgonewild
r/subredditIfellfor
I remember playing some F22 game on Windows 95 back in the day when I was a kid
Novalogic F22 Lightning ?
It was cool as shit.
F22 Raptor as well I’m pretty sure. Had hundreds of hours on it as a kid, fond memories of the Pentium 2 OverDrive case back in the day…
every time I read this comment, I think about how NGAD is already flying somewhere around area 51 (it is actually flying, no joke). How other nations will try to catch up to it is an amusing thought
My great-grandmother built B-52s, so I've been feeling old for a while haha The F-16 and B-52 seem to draw some parallels, in that it seems they're going to be around forever, but even in that they are worlds apart. Both are ships of Theseus, but the F-16 far more so; it maintains the same general shape (save for those goofy CFTs) but a new block... what it is, 72? just has absolutely nothing in common with the original blocks. The B-52 is still basically the same airplane (save cockpit avionics) as it was in the 60s. It is absolutely wild to consider the F-16 still being a front-line fighter, though! It's a testament to the original designers of that cheap, wee little fighter that it has been so incredibly adaptable throughout the last half century. It also makes you think about how the F-16's generation (F-14, F-15, F-16 and to a lesser extent F/A-18) represented when we as a species really started to master jet air flight, rather than experimenting with it (century series springs to mind). The F-14 didn't last as long as the others due to politics and just a little too much specialization (and a little too much maintenance required) but it was still considered the pinnacle of its craft. Now, we seem to be going back to the days of GP aircraft like the F-4 and F-111; we shall see how that goes, I suppose.
We already are back to multi-purpose aircraft. That was the biggest selling point of the latter half of 4th generation aircraft. The F-14 and F-15 showed up on the scene being a little more specialized than their smaller brethren (the F-16 and F/A-18), but they still had/have multi-role capability, even if it was a little later in their lifespans. Also small nitpick, but the F/A-18 still falls into the 4th generation category. The current Super Hornet and later block models of the F-16 are considered 4.5 gen by most. I wouldn’t consider the F-4 or F-111 to be “general purpose” aircraft too. The Phantom was built first and foremost as a fighter but received ground attack capabilities. The F-111’s a little bit weirder though. It received the F designation but was designed as a fast, low flying ground attack aircraft that could truck a shit ton of bombs. Its air-to-air capabilities are rather limited to say the least, and it was never used in such a role.
Yeah you’re having a bad day if you get to the merge in an F-111.
Ehh, the USAF operated the F4 in an attack role from the beginning. It was every bit of a multi role fighter and even the first variant that was received by the USN/USMC had a bombing computer installed on it, although they primarily used it for A2A and fleet defense.
I might have to see if Iron Eagle is on Amazon Prime tonight.
I was a kid the ‘Join Strike Fighter’ was some uber cool superweapon from the Military Channel, the F-22 was the glimpse of the future. Now there’s over 1000 F-35s, F-22 is old news, and the NGAD is the uber cool superweapon.
Well I was in my final year at school in 1977... so I suppose....
Some of the A-4s that I flew are still flying with Draken as aggressors in the USA. The were built in 67-72.
And I grew up watching F-4s fly over my house.
Spent my youth watching/hearing the Century Series of jets at Nellis. Got to where we could identify fighters by their engine noise. This was back when breaking sound barrier and rattling windows was common there
This is a problem in aviation and ship building. The gap time between projects results in collective knowledge loss. F35 was the last fighter designed, from like 15 years ago. That leaves 15 years of intellectual stagnation.
I'd argue that in today's era the knowledge of design is less important than the knowledge of operation. It's more important to have engineers that understand the maintenance consequences of an over complicated mechanical package or the software problems of trying to update a system that talks to a component made by another manufacturer. The design tools and processes are always changing, but there's always value in having your maintenance and operations knowledge pulled into design.
The world is transitioning to drone warfare. Which should render fighter jets a thing of the past. I personally don’t think fighter jets would ever be phased out. There’s just going to be less development money poured into it. As priorities change.
What in the… no?? Have you ever heard of NGAD? Mitsubishi F-X? FCAS? Tempest? Billions of dollars are going into these annually.
Mitsubishi F-X has effectively joined Tempest and falls under what is now called GCAP.
Interesting, haven’t heard yet. Still, point stands
The F-15 turned 51 this year. It's still getting upgrades. Though at this point, it's the Plane of Theseus.
You mean upgrades like the F-15EX, yeah?
Yep. It's kind of amazing how it's evolved over the years.
There is a bit of misconception here. The base of the aircraft is 50 years old but and latest standards like the F15E are not at all 50 years old. And they are not just a small change but most systems have changed.
What impresses me is how 5 decades later it's still just such a supreme vehicle. The engineering is truly something to be amazed at.
[удалено]
Or WYTLs which make the river safe for fuel oil
Yeah, it's surprising. Still, if you look at the old F-16A block 10-15's, it's a much different bird today than back in 78/79. Edit: I used to work on Block 10's. We had tails 79-3XX.
You worked as to build and repair it or as a pilot and saw everything on it? I was gonna ask for some histories but those may include info about a jet that still flies nowadays, right?
Yeah, stationed at Nellis AFB late 80's. Not a pilot, just worked weapons systems on the F-16.
That’s so cool!
They’ve had continuous updates, so they’re not really the same plane they were 50 years ago.
C130 has joined the conversation
It's friends the KC-135 and B-52 would like a word.
Basler BT-67 is laughing in stitches!
Nice pick. Interesting update/overhaul. If it's desired to stick with flying older aircraft, there's a 1909 Bleroit XI in NY. However, if flying is not required, there's a lovely manned, powered box kite hanging about the Smithsonian. Yes, that is my "annoy certain friends" name for the Kittyhawk Flyer.
It will still have mumble-teen years to catch up to me, so yes, I feel old, but not because of this plane. It is ageing far better than I am. I am still flying the Block 1 production run with battle damage.
I worked B52's. I feel older. Lol
Your worked to build or inside, like, crew member in a B-52? I’m curious about your histories on it now
I repaired/maintained the avionics on the engine instrumentation,, flight instrumentation, autopilot, inertial/doppler navigation, augmentation, fuel quantity, and a bunch of other stuff. I also worked a bunch of other large cargo aircraft in my 22 years active duty.
Woah, that’s so cool, how does it feel to repair such a piece of machinery and another marvel of engineering?
I got out in 2004. How'd it feel. They were cool to watch. Too work on. Not so much . Lol
John Boyd would be proud
Yes. One of my 1st models was the PROTOTYPE livery of the F-16 (and F-18.)
From 1980 to 1985, I worked for a VERY large government contractor in San Diego in their electronics division. From 1980 to 1982, I was assigned to a department that made components for F16 avionics. Later I was transferred to another department that built parts for the F111 avionics upgrade. Yes, I DO feel VERY old (74 y/o)..
even the newest fighters are a lot older than me so no.
Still the sexiest jet ever built
*F-15 and Su-27 entered the chat*
MiG-21 family will likely outlive the F-16, even F-35.
Naeh... MiG-21 is slowly passing by already by F-16.
It's entirely plausible that the C-130 will see 100 years of service.
Holy Shit!!!
Even though there has been some advancements in stealth and electronic welfare, I don’t think pure aviation has advanced much in 50 years. Commercial jets for example still fly the same speed as 50 years ago. And they are still as uncomfortable.
Commercial jets still fly the same speed because of economics, but materials, electronics, avionics and all that other stuff under the skin have changed enormously. Speed might be the same but range and operating cost per hour or per passenger mile have improved tremendously.
This is what I mean. There has been innovation, fair enough. But there has been no major paradigm shift from when my great grandfather flew as a passenger on a commercial jet.
You are mising my point. I disagree with you. Commercial aviation has changed tremendously in 50 years. The shape of the plane is not the only indicator of technological developmenet. The engines today bear little resemblance to their predecessors. Transoceanic flights are now made by aircraft with two engines instead of four. Traffic/terrain collision avoidance systems did not exist or were rudimentary 50 years ago. Direct GPS routing was not even a dream. CRM and basic safety protocols have reduced commercial aviation fatalities to almost zero per year recently. Fifty years ago five or six complete hull losses with hundreds of fatalities was a typical year. And all of that does not even mention the airlines' mastery of passenger discomfort. Side note: your *great*-grandfather flew on commercial jets? One of my grandfathers was born in the 19th century and never flew on a commercial flight. I'm not sure his father ever knew that commercial aviation existed. I suspect that there is a lot about commercial aviation in the 1970s that you may be unaware of.
I understand what you're trying to say. It's more of a thought experiment for me. If I was flying in the 70s or 80s from Europe to Australia what major differences would I notice to now. The only major thing I can think of is one less stop. So at a macro level it's the same thing. \*Jet powered plane with cramped af seats that take you from airport to airport at around 900kmph\*. The Concorde was a step change in aviation. It doubled that speed.
There have been a ton of improvements in materials, design, efficiency and much more. Modern planes are quieter, smoother and significantly more economical. There just is a barrier in terms of speed after which point everything gets far more complicated, noisy and increasingly less efficient. That's the speeds around and over sound barrier. And as far as faster planes for military use go, we don't need them anymore to run covert missions at mach 3. Satellites do that just fine and with minimal risk.
Then I guess for that purpose there has been a major change. Jets to Satellites.