Bloodstone. Here are the options:
copy banana:
* average 5 bloodstone triggers (10 \* 0.5) at 1.5 is 7.6x
* banana + banana = 9x
* Total: 68.4x
copy S&B:
* average 7.5 bloodstone triggers at 1.5 is 20.9x
* banana = 3x
* Total: 62.7x
copy Bloodstone:
* average 10 bloodstone triggers at 1.5 is 57.6x
* banana = 3x
* Total: 172.8x
The theory is that you want to balance the number of plays of a card with the multx. Playing a card already gives you 1 trigger and S&B gives you a second, so copying bloodstone gives you double bloodstone which balances....and the bloodstone is stronger than banana by a long shot
Damn. I didn't realize Bloodstone was so much better than S&B or Banana. Thanks for doing and showing the math for me. That's very helpful. Hopefully this run doesn't die too quick. :)
S&B might be competitive if you have lots of face cards, so you play nothing but heart face cards. But basically you’d need to be playing a 5 face card flush every hand
the math assumes all heart face cards as per OP (all lucky heart queens). The more face cards, the stronger the bloodstone copy becomes due to the extra S&B trigger
Copying S&B will give you more chips and more lucky triggers, however. I suspect maxing the Xmult is still correct, but there are other factors. The perfectly optimal choice probably depends on what level you have flush 5 at, and where in the string the +20 mult lucky triggers happen. If nothing else, if you're clearing the blind easily, you should copy S&B for extra $$$.
yeah I was looking simply at points, but yes I agree, if you have it in the bag easily, extra triggers for lucky sounds like what you want to be doing.
My gut says that copying Bloodstone gives enough extra xmult to be better, but since both the order and quantity of 2 different sets of random triggers effects the final result, I have absolutely no idea how to actually do the math.
you got it! good luck w/ the run. yeah even on it's own without s&b, bloodstone is on par with banana albeit with more variable results so you probably put blueprint it on banana. With S&B or any retriggering (red seal, dusk, hack), it's a total monster.
It’s actually even better. Since exponential function is strictly convex, the expected value of the multiplier of the bloodstone is bigger than the multiplier of the expected number of bloodstone triggers. (See Jensen’s inequality.)
Have you taken into account that they're all lucky cards in your calculations? Or would that be too hard? Granted, Bloodstone is still better for score compared to S&B or Cav even after lucky cards so maybe it's pointless to do anyways.
Good thought although the lucky cards will be insignificant next to the 1.5x triggers. We don't know what the flush five level is here, but even base, it starts at 16. So let's say we have 10 triggers (bloodstone copy) vs 7.5 triggers (S&B). even with base, that's 920 mult v 334 mult. The 20 mult from a single lucky card doesn't really matter unless it happens on the first card or two where it might count as a 2x. And you're only at a 1 in 15 vs the bloodstones 1 in 2. And again, this assume base level of flush five which can quickly grow past this.
Yeah, at most, I think it could maybe shift around the ranks for second and third. I think it also means that for econ, S&B would be better assuming you could make the score with S&B just fine. Bloodstone might be better for pure score, but if OP is going for a high endless run, maybe they should stick with S&B if they can handle it until they need to swap to Bloodstone for more cash. So I guess my suggestion to OP would be if they need everything they can get, Bloodstone. If they're still cruising along just fine with no worries right now, S&B for money.
Seems like every time I pick up a card or suit enhancing joker, I’m guaranteed to only get one matching card in the next hand. I know this can just be dismissed by replaying the seed, but that just makes things worse because it suggests the problem is me.
Sure, me too, but seeds are one way to confirm that you’re not being targeted by the game, even if it feels like it half the time. It can be good fun treating a seed as a high score challenge, too - how far can you go using your name, etc. But I think most of the fun is in rolling with a random seed.
Once you get gros michel start saving your money whenever possible so you have plenty to reroll with once it goes extinct. New patch makes it harder though, the 1 in 6 means it very well may never go extinct
A little context, I've built an all lucky Queen of Hearts Anaglyph deck. Turn 1, I Blueprint DNA to get two extra queens. Then turn two I move blueprint to one of the other cards. For a while I was doing banana, but blueprinting Sock and Buskin triggers the queens 3 times, with the potential Bloodstone trigger over and over again.
What would you do with these jokers? Who would you blueprint to get the highest mult?
It really depends on your hand and situation. If you are oneshotting the boss either way you should probably copy the retrigger for extra lucky money.
If you know an x9 will give you the score you want then you can savely copy banana.
If you want to get as high of a score as possible, even if more rng dependant, copy bloodstone.
There could even be a case where you might wanna copy nothing just to not finish the blind to play an extra hand if that helps you scale or make money.
So there could actually be a situation for any position of blueprint to be optimal depending on the hand you play. So you have to look at it on a hand by hand basis.
If all you’re playing is face cards, you should absolutely copy s&b. That allows bloodstone to possibly trigger twice (like you would if you were copying bloodstone) while also retriggering the card itself.
Edit: nvm I get what you’re saying, y’all are right 😂
Actually if you copy bloodstone you get 20 chances total at a 1.5x trigger. If you copy s&b you only get 15 chances, that's why it's best to keep xmult and retrigger jokers balanced.
Wrong, because copying bloodstone gives an extra bloodstone trigger on the first time the card is scored. You end up with 2x blood stone chances on 2x cards being triggered, which is better than 1x blood stone chance on 3x cards triggered.
[Sock and Buskin](https://balatro.wiki/imported/sock_and_buskin.png) *Joker*
* Version: 1.0.0
* Cost: $6
* Rarity: Uncommon
* Effect: Retrigger all played face cards
* Unlock Requirement: Play a total of 300 face cards
Bloodstone. Here are the options: copy banana: * average 5 bloodstone triggers (10 \* 0.5) at 1.5 is 7.6x * banana + banana = 9x * Total: 68.4x copy S&B: * average 7.5 bloodstone triggers at 1.5 is 20.9x * banana = 3x * Total: 62.7x copy Bloodstone: * average 10 bloodstone triggers at 1.5 is 57.6x * banana = 3x * Total: 172.8x The theory is that you want to balance the number of plays of a card with the multx. Playing a card already gives you 1 trigger and S&B gives you a second, so copying bloodstone gives you double bloodstone which balances....and the bloodstone is stronger than banana by a long shot
Damn. I didn't realize Bloodstone was so much better than S&B or Banana. Thanks for doing and showing the math for me. That's very helpful. Hopefully this run doesn't die too quick. :)
S&B might be competitive if you have lots of face cards, so you play nothing but heart face cards. But basically you’d need to be playing a 5 face card flush every hand
the math assumes all heart face cards as per OP (all lucky heart queens). The more face cards, the stronger the bloodstone copy becomes due to the extra S&B trigger
Copying S&B will give you more chips and more lucky triggers, however. I suspect maxing the Xmult is still correct, but there are other factors. The perfectly optimal choice probably depends on what level you have flush 5 at, and where in the string the +20 mult lucky triggers happen. If nothing else, if you're clearing the blind easily, you should copy S&B for extra $$$.
yeah I was looking simply at points, but yes I agree, if you have it in the bag easily, extra triggers for lucky sounds like what you want to be doing.
My gut says that copying Bloodstone gives enough extra xmult to be better, but since both the order and quantity of 2 different sets of random triggers effects the final result, I have absolutely no idea how to actually do the math.
you got it! good luck w/ the run. yeah even on it's own without s&b, bloodstone is on par with banana albeit with more variable results so you probably put blueprint it on banana. With S&B or any retriggering (red seal, dusk, hack), it's a total monster.
It’s actually even better. Since exponential function is strictly convex, the expected value of the multiplier of the bloodstone is bigger than the multiplier of the expected number of bloodstone triggers. (See Jensen’s inequality.)
yes true, I was simplifying here with expected value, good catch
When will the r/Balatro and r/theydidthemath communities meld together 🤔
If you’re playing nothing but heart face cards though, s&b is the right move, and OP is playing a queen heart deck.
the numbers i gave are assuming heart face cards, bloodstone copy is almost 3x that of an S&B copy
Have you taken into account that they're all lucky cards in your calculations? Or would that be too hard? Granted, Bloodstone is still better for score compared to S&B or Cav even after lucky cards so maybe it's pointless to do anyways.
Good thought although the lucky cards will be insignificant next to the 1.5x triggers. We don't know what the flush five level is here, but even base, it starts at 16. So let's say we have 10 triggers (bloodstone copy) vs 7.5 triggers (S&B). even with base, that's 920 mult v 334 mult. The 20 mult from a single lucky card doesn't really matter unless it happens on the first card or two where it might count as a 2x. And you're only at a 1 in 15 vs the bloodstones 1 in 2. And again, this assume base level of flush five which can quickly grow past this.
Yeah, at most, I think it could maybe shift around the ranks for second and third. I think it also means that for econ, S&B would be better assuming you could make the score with S&B just fine. Bloodstone might be better for pure score, but if OP is going for a high endless run, maybe they should stick with S&B if they can handle it until they need to swap to Bloodstone for more cash. So I guess my suggestion to OP would be if they need everything they can get, Bloodstone. If they're still cruising along just fine with no worries right now, S&B for money.
I got that banana card earlier with 1 in 1000 chance of becoming extinct. It died after my second use of it 😂😂😂
I have gotten it at least 20 times by now and it has still yet to go extinct on me. I know my day is coming and I am scared
I think the game just decides when it wants to f*** people over tbh. It either gives you a route to success or it say “no, not today pal”
You mean the game says "Nope!"?
😂 pretty much
Seems like every time I pick up a card or suit enhancing joker, I’m guaranteed to only get one matching card in the next hand. I know this can just be dismissed by replaying the seed, but that just makes things worse because it suggests the problem is me.
I don’t ever play seed. If I win I win, if I fail I fail.
Sure, me too, but seeds are one way to confirm that you’re not being targeted by the game, even if it feels like it half the time. It can be good fun treating a seed as a high score challenge, too - how far can you go using your name, etc. But I think most of the fun is in rolling with a random seed.
I've only gotten it once. It was on one of my first runs and I didn't know what I was doing. I take Gros Michel every time it comes up, too
Once you get gros michel start saving your money whenever possible so you have plenty to reroll with once it goes extinct. New patch makes it harder though, the 1 in 6 means it very well may never go extinct
I had run where I picked up gros michel in ante 2 and it didn’t go extinct until ante 7. Not looking forward to 1 in 6 knowing my luck
Can a blueprint copying a banana go extinct?
A little context, I've built an all lucky Queen of Hearts Anaglyph deck. Turn 1, I Blueprint DNA to get two extra queens. Then turn two I move blueprint to one of the other cards. For a while I was doing banana, but blueprinting Sock and Buskin triggers the queens 3 times, with the potential Bloodstone trigger over and over again. What would you do with these jokers? Who would you blueprint to get the highest mult?
for score you should copy bloodstone, but if you're doing fine on score you should copy s&b for more money from your lucky cards
It really depends on your hand and situation. If you are oneshotting the boss either way you should probably copy the retrigger for extra lucky money. If you know an x9 will give you the score you want then you can savely copy banana. If you want to get as high of a score as possible, even if more rng dependant, copy bloodstone. There could even be a case where you might wanna copy nothing just to not finish the blind to play an extra hand if that helps you scale or make money. So there could actually be a situation for any position of blueprint to be optimal depending on the hand you play. So you have to look at it on a hand by hand basis.
If all you’re playing is face cards, you should absolutely copy s&b. That allows bloodstone to possibly trigger twice (like you would if you were copying bloodstone) while also retriggering the card itself. Edit: nvm I get what you’re saying, y’all are right 😂
Actually if you copy bloodstone you get 20 chances total at a 1.5x trigger. If you copy s&b you only get 15 chances, that's why it's best to keep xmult and retrigger jokers balanced.
Wrong, because copying bloodstone gives an extra bloodstone trigger on the first time the card is scored. You end up with 2x blood stone chances on 2x cards being triggered, which is better than 1x blood stone chance on 3x cards triggered.
Bloodstone
What does [[Sock and buskin]] do?
[Sock and Buskin](https://balatro.wiki/imported/sock_and_buskin.png) *Joker* * Version: 1.0.0 * Cost: $6 * Rarity: Uncommon * Effect: Retrigger all played face cards * Unlock Requirement: Play a total of 300 face cards
This is a helpful link for determining on your own. https://efhiii.github.io/balatro-calculator/
Oh, this is fantastic. Thank you.
Always bloodstone
Question: when you blueprint the banana can the blueprint break or has the banana a doubled chance of breaking?
No, only the positive effect is doubled
depends is the hand face heart cards? S&B is the hand not all face cards? bloodstone
Cavendish as long as it clears the blind (as it is 100% to trigger) Bloodstone once cavendish is no longer enough (as it has highest potential score)
Cavendish every time