Mullins is trying too hard to hit 30 homers again. He's on pace to do it, but every other part of his offensive game is suffering for it.
I'd like to see him trying to just put the ball in play again. The year he was bunting for hits and got like 12 bunt base hits was impressive.
He's absolutely killing me rn...liked having him on my bench but with Trout & Robert on the IL I gotta wear that BA & OPS. C'mon Ceddy, pick it up buddy.
Coby Mayo has homered in I think four straight games. He’s now slashing .333/.397/.683 with 11 homers, 7 doubles, and 2 triples LOL
He’s 22. And it was Povich who won pitcher and player of the month for the entire league.
The Orioles feel like one of the first MLB teams to commit HARD to a rebuild. Obviously other teams (including the Braves) have had their significant ups and downs, but it feels like they’ve launched themselves from basement dwellers for nearly a decade to a potentially perennial contender in the span of a year or two solely from building the farm. Usually feels more like decent teams eventually just peter out over a couple years, languish in mediocrity for a couple more, and finally end up as yearly playoff hopefuls, but never real contenders due to not committing to the tank and getting better prospects. I could list 10 teams off the top of my head who have gone through some form of this in the last 15 years.
4 years is hardly “nearly a decade” but yeah the orioles really tanked hard for a bit. We really were awful and unwatchable from 2018-2021 (even though they didn’t even try to tank until halfway through 2018, they were just so bad). It also helps when you hit on damn near every first round and some second round picks.
They weren’t always at the bottom of the AL East, but between 2014 and 2023, they played in a single playoff game, which they lost. I’d certainly consider that basement dwelling, even if they weren’t necessarily the worst in the league/division or overtly tanking. But yeah, you’re right, the real “tank” wasn’t for a full decade.
It’s true. It came up a bunch because when they were getting good everyone was like “they’ve been bad forever” and they’ve been pretty shitty since 2000, but they were really good from 2012-2018.
The 2014 team was honestly playing the best team in the AL come playoff time which is why the Royals are still up there among teams the Os fanbase doesn’t like lol. We’re just salty
Not true.
For one thing, I am talking about beyond 2014, but I checked 2012-2017 (Orioles lost over 100 games in 2018 so not fair to include) and they won 519 games. The second team I checked was Cleveland, who had 522. And if we are talking about 2014-2022ish (the period I have been talking about the whole time) the Orioles would certainly be one of the worst teams.
From 2012-2016, they had 444 wins. Yankees were the #2 AL team with 435 wins.
Those were really good Oriole teams, anchored by Machado, pre-pumpkin Davis, Adam Jones, JJ Hardy, Kevin Gausman, Zach Britton,etc. They were notoriously overperforming their peripherals for many of those years, though, and they were definitely not a dominant force as much as just consistently good.
2017-2021 they were dead last in the majors with 253 wins.
2022-2024? Second in the AL with 204 wins (Houston 207).
It was a 5 year (really really) bad stretch, with 3 and a half years of full-on tanking.
The other commenter said they were the best from 2012-2018 (which again, I have not acknowledged the pre 2014 Orioles once in this discussion, I only checked those years because that’s what was cherry picked for me). I was saying that was not true. I really don’t feel like going back and forth cherry picking years especially considering y’all are actual Orioles fans; I just don’t follow the team closely. I was trying to compliment the team on having a really promising rebuild and y’all turned it into an argument on exactly which years you sucked.
No, that’s exactly what you did. I put the ? because I wasn’t sure of the year, but you got the point, and it was both unfair and wrong of you to say what you did.
Lmfao what? Unfair and wrong? Dude, I’m not hating on your team at all. I was acknowledging that y’all tanked and came out of it with a successful rebuild. And the “that’s exactly what you did” statement is just false. All I did was try to ballpark when you guys were ass, you guys just decided to take it personally as hell and started listing specific year by year records to be like “ummmm akshually we were only terrible for 4 years, not 8.” There’s nothing to be butthurt about. Your team tanked, they’re good now. It wasn’t a personal attack to acknowledge that fact. Not sure why you’re so worked up. Also, the only reason I said “including 2018 is unfair” is bc I realized you didn’t do your research before commenting either, so I did us both a favor and just left it out. I wasn’t saying that it’s unfair to acknowledge that the Orioles played bad baseball for an extended period of time to get to where they are now.
Yeah that’s some short memory. Was a big deal when those happened because of how much it was talked about prior in SABR communities how much better it is to do that than tread water - so finally got to show so by putting it in action
> I could list 10 teams off the top of my head who have gone through some form of this in the last 15 years.
How many teams that AREN'T named the Pirates?
Take a guess which one of them is holding down an OF spot on my fantasy team...
but really, is he just selling out too hard for power? seems like it to me
He's been kinda hurt I think since last year. I think it's a little bit mental, but he still has a lot of value defensively. But of course that defense doesn't come up in fantasy.
League average OPS right now is .696. That would be lowest league OPS since 1989. And the league batting average right now is .239 which would be good for lowest league avg in modern era. And tied with 1908 for lowest in the history of baseball.
Bring back juiced balls!
Juiced balls don't really help with average. Just gonna inflate .SLG a bit with stupid HRs.
I prefer dead offense to pop ups going for homers. 2019 season was a disgrace
But according to reddit experts it would be horrible if pitchers stopped trying to throw max effort every pitch to save their arms because there would be "more offense" lmao. Can't make this shit up.
I mean, "too much offense" is a "problem" that could be easily solved by moving the mound anyway. It's more of a collective action problem. No pitcher or team is going to unilaterally disarm (no pun intended).
Or with an automated strike zone that is by the rule book if not slightly smaller. Umps are constantly giving pitchers large zones, a smaller more accurate zone would boost offense without having to juice balls
I'm excited honestly. Greene's fastball has looked different & better this year (more vert, different shape). It's all about command for him. He's been great so far.
Reds definitely have the favorable pitching matchups this series, but the offense outside of Elly & Steer have yet to get going. Any day now guys... 🙏
Irvin has been a tough pitcher to face recently. If he's locating his curve, it's a tough ask. That said, Elly is incredible and I wish I had more opportunity to watch him play.
I am a die hard Mets fan but also a big Os supporter. Go O’s!
I hope we don’t ever meet up in the World Series again bc this team is fun and I want them to do well but I’m not rooting for them against my Mets.
I don't know much about how OPS+ is calculated, but it's surprising to me that O'Hearn's 0.923 OPS as a DH correlates to a 169 OPS+ while Henderson's 0.920 OPS as a SS correlates to "only" a 165 OPS+
Anyone have a good explanation?
OPS+ does not take position into account. It is simply 100×((OBP÷lgOBP)+(SLG÷lgSLG)-1). It's then adjusted so that the median OPS+ throughout the league is 100
Naturally if you sort positions by OPS+ then DHs tend to have the highest (not always the case)
If you want to see how good a player's OPS+ is relative to their position, go to their "Splits" page on bbref, scroll down to "Defensive Positions" and look at their sOPS+ for each position. O'Hearn for instance still has an OPS+ of 161 among DHs, Gunnar has an OPS+ of 150 among SS. These numbers may not come out as expected because unlike the regular OPS+, the sOPS+ split for each position is not park-adjusted
Thanks for the info. I went down the rabbit hole a little more because Gunnar's "as starter" sOPS+ is higher than his "as SS" sOPS+. It turns out that shortstop as a position is in third place in OPS (0.722) behind DH (0.738) and RF (0.727). I guess there are a lot of stud shortstops right now
This can be (at least partially) explained by the fact that (IIRC but, I don't remember the exact numbers) players tend to hit worse when they are DHing compared to when they are playing the field.
In the OPS+ calculation, obp and slugging are divided by their league averages respectively (obp/avg obp & slg/avg slg). Since the average obp is lower than the average slugging %, an additional point of obp is worth a little more than an additional point of slugging (since it gets divided by a smaller number). O’hearn has a much higher obp, so his stats result in a higher ops+.
OPS+ incorporates raw numbers along with ball park effects. So a .500 SLG in Colorado would not be weighted as much as .500 (or .475) in other parks.
Perhaps this is the reason why you see this anomaly, especially with a relatively small sample size. If one played a couple more games in a very offensive friendly or unfriendly ballpark it could account for the difference.
yeah, well, they only have 8 hitters clearly so they can't play defense properly >:)
(fun fact, doing the same thing for the red sox you get 7 guys over 100, five guys over 130, though 2 of those 7 guys are injured and our other three guys who qualifiy are under 60 OPS+, one of those 3 DFA'd another in the minors)
A better title would have been "Baltimore has 6 guys above 130 OPS+" or something to that effect. Gets straight to the point of why this is interesting and doesn't sensationalize.
DFA Mullins /s
But then no one will be able to escape even more!
We’ll take him!
Before his slump, he was at like 115 WRC+ I believe lol
Mullins is trying too hard to hit 30 homers again. He's on pace to do it, but every other part of his offensive game is suffering for it. I'd like to see him trying to just put the ball in play again. The year he was bunting for hits and got like 12 bunt base hits was impressive.
You kid but Coby Mayo is ready.
He's absolutely killing me rn...liked having him on my bench but with Trout & Robert on the IL I gotta wear that BA & OPS. C'mon Ceddy, pick it up buddy.
surely a team with such top end talent has poor minor league depth too. show AAA norfolk lineup!
Coby Mayo has homered in I think four straight games. He’s now slashing .333/.397/.683 with 11 homers, 7 doubles, and 2 triples LOL He’s 22. And it was Povich who won pitcher and player of the month for the entire league.
Its amazing what abusing the system so much they have to change it in the CBA will do for your farm system 😂
He was picked in the fourth round… Povich we got for Jorge Lopez who also brought Cano and then we got Lopez back after he was DFA’ed.
Then we let Lopez go :;(
As we should have.
I mean Mayo was a 2nd round pick. Every team had an opportunity to draft him.
Fourth.
…cry more
Are you salty thst your favorite team also passed on Gunnar Henderson?
I know I would be haha.
Lol look who's talking! Ya'll won the WS in 2021, and brought up Strider, Harris, and Contreras in 2022! Absolutely ridiculous.
And now...
Pretty sure this was a sarcastic comment. Most know the farm is somehow still loaded. Imagine if they brought up Holliday!
i think OP meant its ironic for a braves flair to bring up how the MLB team is stacked while also still generating good young players from the minors
The Orioles feel like one of the first MLB teams to commit HARD to a rebuild. Obviously other teams (including the Braves) have had their significant ups and downs, but it feels like they’ve launched themselves from basement dwellers for nearly a decade to a potentially perennial contender in the span of a year or two solely from building the farm. Usually feels more like decent teams eventually just peter out over a couple years, languish in mediocrity for a couple more, and finally end up as yearly playoff hopefuls, but never real contenders due to not committing to the tank and getting better prospects. I could list 10 teams off the top of my head who have gone through some form of this in the last 15 years.
4 years is hardly “nearly a decade” but yeah the orioles really tanked hard for a bit. We really were awful and unwatchable from 2018-2021 (even though they didn’t even try to tank until halfway through 2018, they were just so bad). It also helps when you hit on damn near every first round and some second round picks.
They weren’t always at the bottom of the AL East, but between 2014 and 2023, they played in a single playoff game, which they lost. I’d certainly consider that basement dwelling, even if they weren’t necessarily the worst in the league/division or overtly tanking. But yeah, you’re right, the real “tank” wasn’t for a full decade.
The Orioles from 2012-2018(?) had the best record in the AL.
The whole AL? If only I weren't lying on my bed (Spanish baseball fan here!) I could check it on BBref
It’s true. It came up a bunch because when they were getting good everyone was like “they’ve been bad forever” and they’ve been pretty shitty since 2000, but they were really good from 2012-2018. The 2014 team was honestly playing the best team in the AL come playoff time which is why the Royals are still up there among teams the Os fanbase doesn’t like lol. We’re just salty
2012-2017. Don't talk about 2018.
Not true. For one thing, I am talking about beyond 2014, but I checked 2012-2017 (Orioles lost over 100 games in 2018 so not fair to include) and they won 519 games. The second team I checked was Cleveland, who had 522. And if we are talking about 2014-2022ish (the period I have been talking about the whole time) the Orioles would certainly be one of the worst teams.
From 2012-2016, they had 444 wins. Yankees were the #2 AL team with 435 wins. Those were really good Oriole teams, anchored by Machado, pre-pumpkin Davis, Adam Jones, JJ Hardy, Kevin Gausman, Zach Britton,etc. They were notoriously overperforming their peripherals for many of those years, though, and they were definitely not a dominant force as much as just consistently good. 2017-2021 they were dead last in the majors with 253 wins. 2022-2024? Second in the AL with 204 wins (Houston 207). It was a 5 year (really really) bad stretch, with 3 and a half years of full-on tanking.
The other commenter said they were the best from 2012-2018 (which again, I have not acknowledged the pre 2014 Orioles once in this discussion, I only checked those years because that’s what was cherry picked for me). I was saying that was not true. I really don’t feel like going back and forth cherry picking years especially considering y’all are actual Orioles fans; I just don’t follow the team closely. I was trying to compliment the team on having a really promising rebuild and y’all turned it into an argument on exactly which years you sucked.
No, that’s exactly what you did. I put the ? because I wasn’t sure of the year, but you got the point, and it was both unfair and wrong of you to say what you did.
Lmfao what? Unfair and wrong? Dude, I’m not hating on your team at all. I was acknowledging that y’all tanked and came out of it with a successful rebuild. And the “that’s exactly what you did” statement is just false. All I did was try to ballpark when you guys were ass, you guys just decided to take it personally as hell and started listing specific year by year records to be like “ummmm akshually we were only terrible for 4 years, not 8.” There’s nothing to be butthurt about. Your team tanked, they’re good now. It wasn’t a personal attack to acknowledge that fact. Not sure why you’re so worked up. Also, the only reason I said “including 2018 is unfair” is bc I realized you didn’t do your research before commenting either, so I did us both a favor and just left it out. I wasn’t saying that it’s unfair to acknowledge that the Orioles played bad baseball for an extended period of time to get to where they are now.
Astros and Cubs did the same thing before the Orioles did.
Yeah that’s some short memory. Was a big deal when those happened because of how much it was talked about prior in SABR communities how much better it is to do that than tread water - so finally got to show so by putting it in action
I think of more of their talent as being international signings, but I suppose you’re right.
> I could list 10 teams off the top of my head who have gone through some form of this in the last 15 years. How many teams that AREN'T named the Pirates?
Mullins you bum (I still love you though)
Take a guess which one of them is holding down an OF spot on my fantasy team... but really, is he just selling out too hard for power? seems like it to me
He's been kinda hurt I think since last year. I think it's a little bit mental, but he still has a lot of value defensively. But of course that defense doesn't come up in fantasy.
The fact that a .750 OPS is a 120 OPS+. Offense sucks this year
Don’t worry, it’ll bounce back after the rest of the good pitchers have to get TJ
League average OPS right now is .696. That would be lowest league OPS since 1989. And the league batting average right now is .239 which would be good for lowest league avg in modern era. And tied with 1908 for lowest in the history of baseball. Bring back juiced balls!
It's still cold out. gotta see the whole year before compare year-on-year league OPS
Yeah we have this debate every year lol. “The league offense is the worst it’s been in x years!” No bruh it’s still just cold.
Seriously, Baltimore hit the 90's yesterday, and that shit was carrying like it was Coors Field.
Juiced balls don't really help with average. Just gonna inflate .SLG a bit with stupid HRs. I prefer dead offense to pop ups going for homers. 2019 season was a disgrace
You can usually expect league averages to rise as we approach summer.
Henderson won player of the month with a considerably lower OPS+ than Mike Trout has for his entire career
But according to reddit experts it would be horrible if pitchers stopped trying to throw max effort every pitch to save their arms because there would be "more offense" lmao. Can't make this shit up.
I mean, "too much offense" is a "problem" that could be easily solved by moving the mound anyway. It's more of a collective action problem. No pitcher or team is going to unilaterally disarm (no pun intended).
Or with an automated strike zone that is by the rule book if not slightly smaller. Umps are constantly giving pitchers large zones, a smaller more accurate zone would boost offense without having to juice balls
Personally, I prefer watching great pitching over great batting.
Personally, I love watching a giant slugfest. So much fun.
MOOOOOOO
I've been staring at this for a couple minutes, and only now do I get it
When he hits a homer at OPACY those aren't "boos" you're hearing. Between that and the cow costumes in the stands it's pretty hilarious.
I’m reallllly sad he’s not on the Brewers :(
Well it's not the Milwaukee Mooers 😔
You got Ortiz and Hall and you'll like it!
Mooo-urns
For godsakes, please don’t do my team.
A couple weeks ago I saw that their .566 OPS matched Jon Lester's 2019 OPS of .566
WHAT DID I JUST SAY!
Might as well just field a team of 9 Jon Lesters.
Or mine lol
Or mine
Well, this Redditor agrees with you that it’s out of control!
Are you trying to stress me out, friend?
Depends, is it working?
Ooh! Hunter Green vs the best offense in baseball later today. I will be tuning in for sure.
I'm excited honestly. Greene's fastball has looked different & better this year (more vert, different shape). It's all about command for him. He's been great so far. Reds definitely have the favorable pitching matchups this series, but the offense outside of Elly & Steer have yet to get going. Any day now guys... 🙏
The O's are agressive at the plate and don't take many walks, so poor command could sort of work in his favor.
Dude was dealing. Pitch count was a little out of control but he pitched really well.
Cole Irvin almost no hit us. The offense is so frustrating, but alas, great game birdies. 🫡
Irvin has been a tough pitcher to face recently. If he's locating his curve, it's a tough ask. That said, Elly is incredible and I wish I had more opportunity to watch him play.
Show our non-qualified 2Bs, you coward!
It’s gonna be (a) May
May the Thirdth Be With You
I hate the al east
Ryan Mountcastle is doing all this and has not faced Blue Jays yet.
I dont like that guy
It doesn't help that we're having (IIRC) the second worst offensive performance in our team's history through the number of games we've played so far
I imagine the experience of being a Blue Jays fan resembles watching giant monsters fighting in your city for control.
I hate baseball
lol I feel sorry for whoever has to play them next.
OFF DA CHAAAIIIN !!!
OTHER GM'S HATE THIS ONE SECRET TRICK !!!
Ryan O'Hearn hitting .300 is bewildering to me
You should watch hit contact this year too. He absolutely tags baseballs, even on many of his outs.
Dude is our best hitter and has been for the past year.
He’s been one of the best hitters in the league last year but I believe he is actually first this year
They’re up to .603 as a team, though. They’ve almost caught up to Michael Lorenzen’s career .710 OPS.
Your comment missed its parent comment, but yes, the White Sox have been red hot as of late 😆
Colton Cowser is someone I was sleeping on about a year ago. He’s sure showed me.
Do they not have a second baseman? Bold strategy
I am a die hard Mets fan but also a big Os supporter. Go O’s! I hope we don’t ever meet up in the World Series again bc this team is fun and I want them to do well but I’m not rooting for them against my Mets.
Imagine how good they’ll be when they figure out that they can have someone play 2b
Mullins being a bum and bringing down the OPS+
Cedric Mullins right now is what Kevin Kiermaier is supposed to be
100% i know and agree.
Fuckin' Cedric
RMC leading the team in walks is very funny
Damn, the lowest rated player is still just a nut hair below league average
The Orioles are what everyone was expecting from the Blue Jays :(
Chef Swervin Irvin cooking it up
Can OP compare this to my dreadful Rockies?
If this isn't out of control, I'm terrified to ever see what is
Colton and Gunnar are beasts
Must be another year of the pitcher if average OPS is about .700.
20% better than average
🥛🐄
I don't know much about how OPS+ is calculated, but it's surprising to me that O'Hearn's 0.923 OPS as a DH correlates to a 169 OPS+ while Henderson's 0.920 OPS as a SS correlates to "only" a 165 OPS+ Anyone have a good explanation?
OPS+ does not take position into account. It is simply 100×((OBP÷lgOBP)+(SLG÷lgSLG)-1). It's then adjusted so that the median OPS+ throughout the league is 100 Naturally if you sort positions by OPS+ then DHs tend to have the highest (not always the case) If you want to see how good a player's OPS+ is relative to their position, go to their "Splits" page on bbref, scroll down to "Defensive Positions" and look at their sOPS+ for each position. O'Hearn for instance still has an OPS+ of 161 among DHs, Gunnar has an OPS+ of 150 among SS. These numbers may not come out as expected because unlike the regular OPS+, the sOPS+ split for each position is not park-adjusted
Thanks for the info. I went down the rabbit hole a little more because Gunnar's "as starter" sOPS+ is higher than his "as SS" sOPS+. It turns out that shortstop as a position is in third place in OPS (0.722) behind DH (0.738) and RF (0.727). I guess there are a lot of stud shortstops right now
Not always though. There have been years where DHs were collectively below average hitters which is frankly hilarious
This can be (at least partially) explained by the fact that (IIRC but, I don't remember the exact numbers) players tend to hit worse when they are DHing compared to when they are playing the field.
OPS+ doesn't care about a player's position. I don't know the formula though
Likely means O'Hearn went off in a pitcher-friendly park or two. OPS+ is park-adjusted.
OPS+ doesn't care about opposing ballparks, just home, so that wouldn't matter. It's a non-insignificant flaw in it, imo.
Yeah that sucks. I had no idea.
Ops+ adjusts slg and obp for different ballparks; so I'm guessing that is why.
In the OPS+ calculation, obp and slugging are divided by their league averages respectively (obp/avg obp & slg/avg slg). Since the average obp is lower than the average slugging %, an additional point of obp is worth a little more than an additional point of slugging (since it gets divided by a smaller number). O’hearn has a much higher obp, so his stats result in a higher ops+.
Got it. That explains my next question about the difference between Cowser and O'Hearn
OPS+ incorporates raw numbers along with ball park effects. So a .500 SLG in Colorado would not be weighted as much as .500 (or .475) in other parks. Perhaps this is the reason why you see this anomaly, especially with a relatively small sample size. If one played a couple more games in a very offensive friendly or unfriendly ballpark it could account for the difference.
Let’s combine our pitching with your offense
they were your pair and you know they’re legit?
The Tigers would be 35-5 again with this hitting. I don't know how many more 1-0, 2-1 losses I can take.
Nice!
CHERINGTON: MAKE A TRADE FOR MOUNTCASTLE You dingus.
Must be nice
Walks schmalks. These dudes swing the bat!
Cowser gone to shit lately
yeah, well, they only have 8 hitters clearly so they can't play defense properly >:) (fun fact, doing the same thing for the red sox you get 7 guys over 100, five guys over 130, though 2 of those 7 guys are injured and our other three guys who qualifiy are under 60 OPS+, one of those 3 DFA'd another in the minors)
Now that hollliday isn’t bringing them down. He was historically bad.
A better title would have been "Baltimore has 6 guys above 130 OPS+" or something to that effect. Gets straight to the point of why this is interesting and doesn't sensationalize.
My writing staff conceded 'Out of Control' after talking me down from 'Totally Radical.'
Should have gone with tubular
How did this happen? Just by being terrible for a decade?
It could, but the Orioles had the best record in AL from 2012 to 2016. The Orioles were truly bad from 2018 to 2021.