I live near the outskirts of Brussels, studied in Brussels and work in Brussels. Here's my guess: It's because many Belgians (at least Flemish) do not relate to Brussels and its inhabitants at all. Expats & petit bourgeoisie on one hand, 'new belgians' and refugees on the other. (& Regular folks but those don't stand out.) Higher crime rate, various kinds of pollution, congestion, ... Then there's still the thing where if you speak the #1 majority language of the country (Dutch/Flemish), some service workers hardly understand you (or don't want to understand you) in your own 'bilingual' capital. Media typically also doesn't exactly put Brussels in the best spotlight (news = usually bad events). Brussels has its perks but it's easy to see why it also gets a lot of hate. Ask Dutchies what they think of Amsterdam or Frenchies what they think of Paris. You'll get similar responses.

As an NL having worked in France, Belgium and the Netherlands, I don’t think the responses are the same. Paris and Amsterdam are undoubtedly the economic and cultural centres of their countries. The Netherlands and France are highly centralised countries as opposed to Belgium which has powerful regions. The French and Dutch rant on their capital as expensive and its inhabitants as arrogant, but everyone knows it’s where the money and the power and the cultural clout are. The mainstream picture of success is still a Hausmannian apartment (FR) or a grachtenpand (NL). Belgians, in comparison, have checked out from their capital. In my experience this is true for Flemish (which I sort of expected) but for Walloons as well. The image of success is a villa somewhere in Vlaams Brabant or le Brabant Wallon. Maybe an historically Flemish city where people mainly speak French today just doesn’t really slot in with either the Walloon or the Flemish identity? For foreigners the value is easy to see: a huge cultural offer for a relatively small size, modest rents compared to the other capitals, and a quick train ride away from London, Paris and Amsterdam. Ironically, these rents would be higher if the Belgians actually liked Brussels so maybe keep it that way ;) (edt. of course I realise Brussels rent is high for Belgian standards and this is also because of all the immigrants that come work in the eurobubble etc., this is a real problem that comes with the mobility of workers in the EU)

>The Netherlands and France are highly centralised countries as opposed to Belgium which has powerful regions. The Netherlands is very notoriously not centralised around the capital city though. Amsterdam is comparatively small for a capital city, and the main functions of a centralised capital like Paris are spread across the Randstad's four major cities. The Hague is obviously the political capital, while Rotterdam is a major economic hub and Utrecht is a central transit hub.

I agree that belgians have checked out from the capital, but I'm not sure that the reasons you explained are that valid. >The image of success is a villa somewhere in Vlaams Brabant or le Brabant Wallon. Not that true. When you compare prices, it's way more expensive to buy an appartement in a "shitty" place like Elsene or Etterbeek than a villa outside of Brussels. People buy outside of Brussels because they can't afford to buy inside the capital. >Maybe an historically Flemish city where people mainly speak French today just doesn’t really slot in with either the Walloon or the Flemish identity? That I can somewhat relate. I grew up in Brussels (immigrant, been here since I was 8 or 9) and what I can tell from growing up here is that Brussels catalyzes linguistic (and others) tensions and it's pretty exhausting for people who love/ have an attachement to the country. You're constantly torn apart between the 2 linguistics sides, eveything is freaking complicated because each political side needs to give their input into every matter... Even to start a basic sidewalk redo you will have politics from the flemish and french side trying to make it about them. You pair that up with the fact that the european institutions really grew in the country, with more foreigners (who are not affected by the linguistic/territorial tensions of the country), more people that just live here for a few months/years before going back to their home country/other mission elsewhere, and you're left with Brussels as an European Capital instead of a Belgian one. I think the euro bubble really ended up driving the flemish people away. I didn't had to look for a job in a while but I remember that when I was looking, no one really cared that I could speak flemish. They only wanted to make sure I could speak english. I always worked in hospitals. You can come accross an entire department without a doctor that speaks flemish in some hospitals here. I consider it like a slap in the face and I'm not even directly concerned. So I can understand that flemish people wouldn't want to stay in that situation.

> Not that true. When you compare prices, it's way more expensive to buy an appartement in a "shitty" place like Elsene or Etterbeek than a villa outside of Brussels. Elsene and Etterbeek are two of the most expensive communes in Brussels.

I know... but they are also the bests ones 😉 I tried to leave to save some money but life isn't the same.

I agree with a lot but not on the pricing Bxl/Brabant. Me & a lot of my friends would be able to buy something in Evere or Schaarbeek for the same price as the apartment or house we bought in brabant. But none of us would want to live there. It buys you a totally different type of home. I have a garden with sunrise & sunset, I can park my car in the street and if friends come over for dinner they can park in the street for free. Kids can play in the street without big risk of being run over. My walk with the dog is for 50% in a real forrest with rural nature. And an 8min drive brings me in the center of Evere (non traffic hours). Theoretically, yes, a penthouse in Elsene with rooftop, double garage & double bathroom would cost me more then my house. But I live outside of Bxl for a reason, and it’s not the money.

You sound like somebody from de Randstad, where only de Randstad matters. For most Dutch people Amsterdam is a place to avoid and having a house there is not the idea of success.

That's what I just said!

You don't know Ukkel than which is full of Villa's (and I believe one of the most expensive communes in Belgium to buy), or Chatelain, or Plasky with gorgeous art nouveau 'herenhuizen/Maison du maître', They might not be as publicized as de 'grachtenpand' in the Netherlands (I assume, I don't know what Grachtenpand is), but we have our own expansive areas. Thank you though for that positive and appreciative spin on Brussels

The disdain from the Flemish of the richer communes of Brussels is because they’re mainly francophone. It’s incredibly nice to live in the south of Brussels and the rent is reflected that way. It costs so much more in 1180 than in 1000.

Can you go on about this a little more? I love artistic neighborhoods.

oof, there are sooo many in Brussels, though if you want to have a few on the top of my head: - De Louis Bertrandlaan (if you go there now, the road is in a deplorable state, but has to do ironically with prepping it for completely rehaul). - if you go there, have a walk in Josaphat park - Emile Maxlaan (with Ardeense Jagerplein at the end which has this awesome hipster market on Friday afternoon with the EU bobo's go to) - Verenigingstraat - Sint Gillis Voorplein (which is a bit of a place full of bars, but really pretty. and since they made it carfree 10 years ago, this place has become very hip) - Savoiestraat (here you'll find the cityhall of Sint Gillis, which is almost as beautiful as the Schaarbeek one. The whole Area though is beautiful) - Collignon plein (this area definitely is not for the rich, but the houses are beautiful) These are just some areas that I know off, but they're everywhere in Brussels

I live in Brussels and like it, and mostly agree with you except Place Collignon. It is a dump once you get 30m away in any direction.

Respect.

I strongly disagree that Amsterdam is the cultural center of the Netherlands, which is incredibly laughable. Den Hague is that by a landslide. And the economic center belongs to The Randstad, which Amsterdam is a part of. Only someone living in Amsterdam would think it was both.

The Hague is the cultural centre of the country by a landslide? How? It sure is the political centre, but I don't think it even beats Rotterdam for cultural impact, never mind Amsterdam. And either way, no one city in this country is the epicenter by a 'landslide' because the biggest four are relatively similar in size.

> Expats & petit bourgeoisie on one hand, 'new belgians' and refugees on the other. (& Regular folks but those don't stand out.) And it's like the city layout was planned to emphasize these contrasts. It's the only Belgian city where I still feel like a tourist, even though I visit it the most by far.

Isn't it logical that you feel like a tourist when you visit it?

>Media typically also doesn't exactly put Brussels in the best spotlight (news = usually bad events). Former journalist here, My experience is that there is a wide language gap on this issue. British and American press portray Brussels as comfortable, soft, and lazy, while Flemish press sees it as almost a warzone. I remember once, in 2014, The Economist published a list of the world's 20 most livable cities. Brussels ranked 28th in the world. When I called the BXL capital region's government for comment to cover the story, they initially thought it was a joke or a prank call. They straight up could not believe that London-based international press considered Brussels to be livable in any way, shape or form.

Sounds like my friends from Paris, who all LOVE Brussels as a way more chill and casual capital city.

I've noticed Parisians saying that too

as a dutch person who moved to flanders, what frustrates me most about brussels is the sheer confusion when someone speaks dutch... its completely surrounded by flanders but its oh so weird to speak dutch? add to that the degree of missplaced superiority I recognize from "Holland" in the Netherlands and its clear to me people from brussels are generally more uptight and feel superior to others. which is why in general, the city is a for me a write off. this is a bigger problem in belgium as a whole where the whole society still feels a lot more class-like with "arbeiders" and "bedienden". this whole feeling superior to others idea is not going to help society forward, and im saying that from a position that I recognize as quite privileged. I only benefit from this perverse system. honestly I think brussels should just leave belgium and be what it thinks it is anyways, an independent capital city of the EU. like washington dc has its own state of sorts.

Wait what ? Brussels as an independent state because most people are not bilingual?!

Ah yes, the lack of Dutch must be a superiority thing and *totally* not related to Flemings refusing to live here out of *their* misplaced sense of superiority vis-a-vis the city. Anyway, Dansaertwijk is full of them but the reality is more people speak English than Dutch here. Being surrounded by Flanders doesn't mean shit when it's a tiny little artificial belt, especially one that's mostly inhabited by Francophones and expats because Flanders just doesn't understand that an artificial border won't stop these towns from being suburbs.

I am Dutch and I really love my capital city. On the other hand, every time I take a train to Brussels I feel like I am entering the third world. One of the first times I ever was in Brussels one of my friends got pickpocketed on the streets, we went to a police station to make a report and the police officer refused to speak anything but French. Ever since I really hate Brussels.

Funny, it's basically the same feeling that I have when I take a train to Brussels from Paris Gare du Nord or from Lille Flandres. The ironic part is that Paris Gare du Nord is usually viewed as a dump by French people and by Londoners arriving from Saint Pancras. But Bruxelles Midi and everything around is in a league of its own. Closest comparison would probably be Gara de Nord in Bucharest, and even then Bucharest would win.

Amsterdam is loved, most Dutch people wish they could live there, but it’s getting too expensive.

Eh, shitting on Amsterdam is pretty popular these days, especially now that rural-urban divides are being polarised and used as a stand-in for all sorts of social and political divides. But there are also lots of people who like Amsterdam, I certainly do. I wish I could afford to live in the Spaarndammerbuurt, I love it there.

Ever wondered why the Dutch government is in Den Haag and not Amsterdam? The rest of the world loves Amsterdam but Dutch people not so much.

The Dutch government is in Den Haag because Amsterdam was still under Spanish control back then.

I think they are geniuses for doing it, letting the government, embassies and international institutions work normaly in Den Haag while Amsterdam is left for the tourists to smoke weed and fall drunk in the canals.

I agreed for most part here, but the Dutch & Amsterdam + French & Paris = a whole different type of less hateful/alienated relationship than Dutch speaking Belgians + Brussels

Amsterdam seems to be the exception to the rule here. I mostly heat praise of it by dutch People. Mostly city dwellers tho so that might change the attitude.

From Hasselt based in Ghent and I absolutely love Brussels.

There is always some remark about arrogance or drug violence whenever Antwerp is mentioned. And when Belgium as a whole is mentioned in another subreddit, there's always a few predictable remarks about Leopold II. Brussels certainly isn't being singled out in that respect.

Sorry, but I agree with OP. The Brussels bashing in this sub is maddening.

Still.. We bash everything, even bashing everything.

True, but on posts on Antwerp, it's not exclusively that. Above half the comments deal positevely with the topic. Brussel posts get drowned in negative comments, and I wonder if that might be a reason for simply not posting about Brussels. Even when someone asks what are nice places to visit in Belgium and I dare mention Brussels, I get downvoted into purgatory.

When they did the 'scratch this Provence/city from the map' poll posts last summer, they scratched off Antwerp like 7 times before moving on to another area even though the idea is that you eliminate a new area every time. They just kept eliminating Antwerp over and over again so I don't entirely agree.

This sub is overwhelmingly Flemish and they hate Brussels. Ironically, much of why they hate Brussels relates to their complete inability to interface or interact with it besides the job they drive to and from.

This sub is overwhelmingly Flemish because our southern brothers are crap in English (they refuse to learn the language of the majority of their own population but let's not go there).

Antwerp is nowhere near as bad as Brussels. Gun & drugs violence for example is much higher in Brussels than in Antwerp, it just doesn't make the news anymore.

>Gun & drugs violence for example is much higher in Brussels than in Antwerp, The Washington DC expat in me is not intimidated nor impressed.

That is sadly, quite a jaded response.

_Hoboken enters the chat_ No but in all honesty. I navigate Brussels daily, and yes, it is quite 'louche' in some areas. Certainly by night. But on the other side, one of my friends lives in Hoboken, and the clips she sometimes sends me, with the sound of grenades ans bombs on the background... Feels like a war zone. Plus the vandalism she has to endure... I wouldn't call Antwerp much safer. They are equal, to say the least.

Als Nederlander lijkt Antwerpen wel veel veiliger. Anders zouden Nederlanders er ook niet massaal neerstrijken. Nederlanders zijn wars van straatmisdaad en slecht onderhouden infrastructuur, dat is waarom je ze zelden in Brussel vindt. En ze kunnen geen woord Frans, dat ook

Ik moet als Antwerpenaar wel zeggen dat een groot deel van de Nederlandse touristen die naar Antwerpen komen niet het type lijkt dat veel om infrastructuur geeft, ik heb echt al heel veel Nederlandse touristen hier veel mensen zich ongemakkelijk doen voelen of gewoon zich echt als varkens gedragen in het openbaar

Are you sure about that? I just looked at the stats for 2022. Antwerp's cases with gun violence is 170, while in Brussels, the only area that has more than that is the combined area of the city of Brussels and Elsene with 217 (Brussels is divided into 6 Police Zones). But even Brussel West (with Molenbeek ) only had 103 incidents. Counting them all up, and dividing them by population, it'll be higher, but I'm not sure the relative difference is as significant as you'd make it out to be here. also, we don't have grenades flying around edit: clarified police zones in Brussels

> also, we don't have grenades flying around You do. [https://www.hln.be/brussel/overvallers-gooien-granaat-in-cafe-terwijl-ze-wegvluchten-na-overval-in-anderlecht\~ac50d9bb/](https://www.hln.be/brussel/overvallers-gooien-granaat-in-cafe-terwijl-ze-wegvluchten-na-overval-in-anderlecht~ac50d9bb/) [https://www.politie.be/opsporingen/nl/opsporingen/gezochte-personen/drie-granaten-gegooid-in-anderlecht](https://www.politie.be/opsporingen/nl/opsporingen/gezochte-personen/drie-granaten-gegooid-in-anderlecht) [https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20230804\_95165807](https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20230804_95165807) Brussels is worse than Antwerp in terms of drugs violence and guns and the most criminal city of Belgium and larger western EU region.

ah, yea we had that thing in Anderlecht, true. I stand corrected

Antwerp unified the different zones. Brussels didn't. If you want to compare apples with apples, you make the total of all 6 zones and compare that with Antwerp

tbh, as a Belgian, I wouldn't recommend Brussels as a 'nice place' to visit. my guess would be that most people relate to that as well, hence the downvotes. for me, personally, Liège and Brussels are places I rather avoid. so it has nothing to do with 'scared of the big city'

I’m curious to learn why you have that opinion about Liège? I’m new to Liège and would like to know your perspective.

fine, and a different opinion is ok to have. I disagree, I find Brussel one of the nicest places to visit in Belgium. my annoyance is that apparently, I'm not allowed to say that.

It’s a great city. I like it here and so do most people actually living here . I gripe of course. But I couldn’t live in almost any other Belgian coty (exception might be Ghent or Mechlen)

Then you have absolutely no clue about the city and are full of prejudice. Also Liege even has nice parts.

Brussels has many gorgeous and welcoming areas. It’s also the only place where I’ve had my car window smashed and bag stolen while waiting at a stoplight. 😅

And I've only been robbed once in my life and that was in Leuven. So that doesn't mean anything ofcourse.

I'm afraid I'm not. I visit Brussels and Liège frequently and you're correct it's not *all* bad. but, for me atleast, it's a shithole. you probably feel the same about where I live, and that's ok. can't force people to like the same things

Nah dude. We aren't all obsessed with where others live like the Flemish are about the big Francophone cities. The existence of Antwerp doesn't mean shit to me, but somehow Brussels existing rallies the entirety of the N-VA and VB dipshitaverse around a common cause.

I'll take "things a Flemish person would say" for $500 Alex.

Brussels has some legitimate issues, but I feel the majority of people who routinely shit on it maybe go there like a single afternoon once a year at most.

Yeah, I'm from a more 'rural' city, but I worked in Brussels for many years. I obviously only stayed in the working districts, but especially in the summer I really loved just hanging out and taking in the city.

One thing I noticed is that many people who go there will just go to work and then back home via car or trains, their only impression is just their work place (probably a bit drab) and the traffic or public transport. It's not a great way to get to know the place. But once you start exploring it a bit more, it really opens up.

The architecture especially is impressive.

Aye, there's few places with such a density of art nouveau buildings.

Oh man, if I had to associate Brussels with work stuff only I would absolutely dislike it. My experience would indeed be something like "Ah yes, that piss-scented pickpockety hole in the ground between my job and the crowded train". Glad to have lived there + it's still my favourite place to meet up with friends from other places in the country because it's so central and there's so many good bars withing walking distance from the central station :) It kind of is a "you need to know where to go" kind of city but I think that's part of the charm?

After living abroad for several years, I came back to Belgium and the whole city is just depressing. It already starts with the train station which set the mood immediately with everything smelling like urine and homeless people everywhere. Most of the rest of the city is just also drenched in depression and the trash everywhere doesn't help. Compared to most cities in Flanders, Brussels is just a very unpleasant city imo. This is not a country boy hating on the big city. I loved Tokyo, Bangkok and CDM and those are massive compared to a small city like Brussels.

See this is what bothers me so much about the Brussels apologists. The argument you always see coming back is that “people saying bad things about Brussels are just small town people who don’t know anything about big city life”. While if you would have some actual experience with some other big cities, you would quickly realize what a depressing mess Brussels is. Seems like they’re the ones who have a very limited experience with city life. The irony.

I do think people are overly focussed on the negative and refuse to see the positive things in Brussels. If you compare your shittiest experiences from Brussels against the best things from another big city, yeah Brussels is going to look terrible. I've had a number of "bad" experiences in Paris for instance (more than in Brussels actually), like being harassed around Paris Nord or being targeted by con artists in the most touristic areas. That doesn't mean I think Paris is *just* that. In fact, I still really like it, negative experiences aside. But the average person bashing Brussels can't seem to see it objectively. It's mentally disingenuous.

I used to think that. I had some moments of feeling unsafe but then i'd also had that when it got late in Barcelona. Prague seemed incredibly safe but then i got tourist taxed by police. etc But there are issues and i've come to dislike the continuous dismissing of it all which seems to happen with brussels more often than not. For example the well known neighborhoods advertised as problematic like Molenbeek come up for discussion a lot. I had a friend or 2 who lived there and felt it was quite alright and others said it was the country bumpkins having fantasies about it. All very dismissive of any actual issues and i took it at face value. After all....I had walked trough there at night a good bunch since i worked with an ngo and after weekly evening meetings i typically from their office trough there to the trainstation. Other than being repeatedly circled by some guys on a bike for some reason nothing really happened there. I had more bad experiences near the train station or elsewhere. But i was an (at the time) relatively buff looking Belgian dude. Since then i've met my girlfriend. Short and arab and i was bewildered when she refused to walk trough it for a short bit with me. Turns out she had very different experiences including but not limited to being stalked then chased by 3 dudes, getting an offhand comment in arab about how it's a shame that people (her and her friend) can dress like that (regular western clothing) and back home they'd risk getting acid thrown at em obviously aimed at intimidating her. This same girl is absolutely paranoid about me getting pickpocketed absolutely anywhere in the city something which nobody ever managed to do to me but since we got togheter it happened to her more than once. I heard stories about Brussels police being faaaar from helpful i never needed to verify initially but also that i've since found confirmed. Also what the fuck is with ridiculous amount of cases of people putting daterape shit in peoples drinks in the student life? Why the actual fuck are they so dismissive about that???

I lived for 21 years in Bucharest, the capital of Romania. Way bigger than Brussels (about 8x the size). As crowded. I also lived in what is considered the 2nd worst neighbourhood in the entire city. Brussels is depressing. Way dirtier. More homeless people / addicts / whatever. Anything but premium neighbourhoods like Woluwes are more dirty and trashy and depressing than even the worst / second worst neighbourhood in Bucharest.

i’ve told brussels lovers several times that many eastern european cities in countries they would consider poor are far cleaner and safer than brussels but they just don’t believe you. straight up reality denial

Bucharest has 1.8m inhabitants, compared to 1.2m for Brussels, so hardly 8x more!

Sorry but Bucharest is nowhere near 8x the size of Brussels... Bucharest metropolitan area 2,3 mln VS Brussels metropolitan area 2,8 mln.

Sorry dude, my inlaws are from Bucharest and I visit there twice a year. Really love the city but it's overall dirtier, busier and less functional than Brussels. I do feel much safer there that is true.

As an expat living in Flanders, to me it feels like Brussels is an entirely different country. Dirty, dingy, not bike friendly at all, and congested. It's technically in Flanders, but god forbid you speak Flemish anywhere. The train stations, particularly Noord, are ghastly. It's also incredibly unsafe in comparison to other Flemish cites. The whole city gives an off putting, hostile vibe. I'd say that the gastronomic and nightlife offering are the only thing the city has in It's favor.

I disagree with you., but to each there own Brussel South and North station are not welcoming places, I agree with that. But I don't find it an especially depressing city, quite on the contrary.

Brussels is the most liveable city out of all the ones you mentioned tho. That's why inhabitants like me love it. Of course you come in as a tourist and it seems depressing compared to Tokyo.

Dude the smell of piss and shit is pungent on the streets of Bangkok what are you talking about

Yeah but lemongrass and basil. lol

Really wild take indeed. People compare "touristability" of the cities, not liveability

One big positive compared to Flanders. MIVB is way better than de Lijn.

MIVB is better but it's hard to compare. Running the public transport in a very dense urban environment is a dream compared to doing so in the Flemish lintbebouwing.

Het ding met Brussel is dat het voor veel mensen gevaarlijker voelt dat het vrij onopvallende moordcijfer(meestal rond de 1,7 a 2 per 100 000) doet vermoeden. Dit komt meen ik doordat de gevaarlijkste buurten van Brussel zich dicht bij het centrum en de grote stations bevinden, en niet afgeschermd zijn van de andere buurten. Bovendien moeten asielzoekers in Belgie zich als het goed is vaak in Brussel melden, waar ze vaak blijven rondhangen. In Nederland gebeurt dit in Ter Apel, een dorpje vlak bij de Duitse grens. Niet ideaal, maar het houdt de grootsteden veiliger.

Went to a show in the temporary magasin 4 last week. We took the train, got off at south station. Not only does the it reek of piss outside the station, there was a bucket of shit just standing there. A bucket of shit... Brussels may be a beautiful city, but it shure is nasty place once you leave the historic city center.

You go to the worst place in Brussels, see 1 bucket of piss and conclude Brussels is nasty "once you leave the city center"...

Why do you Brussels lovers always assume we never go there? It's getting repetitive.

Sure many people went to the Grand Place, the center, the stations, etc. But how many people criticising Molenbeek went there even once? How many people know Schaerbeek, Saint-Gilles, Anderlecht, Auderghem, Etterbeek or Uccle? It's all places that are so different from each other and that all have great stuff to see and live. I personally lived in Brussels all my life and still discover new things from time to time when walking around the city. So yeah most people criticising Brussels don't know Brussels, even though some do know a part of it, (which can has issues there is no denying it), and then generalise it to the whole of Brussel which stop them from knowing all the other parts of the city that have a lot to bring.

imagine how we feel about hearing every bloody time "hobos are pissing everywhere", while I've maybe seen that twice,... and having lived all my life here. You see why we feel that you never actually come here? because every time Brussels is mentioned, an image is painted that seems wildly fantastic and depressing compared to what someone actually living here knows it to be.

Actually one of the first questions already a second group of friends visiting for the first time asked me is why does it smell like piss in most places in the city center. So while you might not see them you can definitely smell it, especially with a new eye (nose in this case). I had the same feeling walking on Las Ramblas in Barcelona last summer as I do walking in parts of Brussels center (unsafe, dirty and smelling of piss) and while I am used to it here I remember how disappointed and quite afraid I was as a tourist there and realized that this is probably what my friends feel here.

> while I've maybe seen that twice,... and having lived all my life here Legit, what gated community do you live in lmao? Even Rue Neuve is full of piss. You telling me you've practically never gone to bxl's main shopping street?

*How to make it obvious you're not from Brussels, without saying you're not from Brussels*. Never said anything about the presence of that awful smell. I'm well aware that's a problem. I'm just saying that the image that, Brussels is rive with pissing hobos, and you'll see at least 5 when you walk through the centre, is overdone, not true and cringe. I've walked in various states through the city centre at all hours of the night, a many glorious weekends, and I maaaybe have seen 2... over a lifetime. so, apologise me for doubting anyone that says they've seen multiple pissing hobos every single time they visit Brussels.

> How to make it obvious you're not from Brussels, without saying you're not from Brussels Why do you say this lol? What have I said that makes you think that? I don't know why you're fixated on the act of seeing the pissing itself when most people are undoubtedly speaking about the smell - coming from pissing hobos - as the primary problem.

LMAOOO RIGHT??? Even rural places will have you seeing drunkards pissing around.

All we have to do to solve this is to keep a closer eye on drunk Flemish politicians and their friends.

Because you mainly don't.

Am 1-2 times a week in Brussels. While it has good areas (Grand Sablée), you can’t neglect there are indeed ghettos and large portions are indeed dirty. Homeless around the train stations is just a normal thing there. Criminality and pickpocketting is regular and NMBS is constantly warning for it. It’s a nightmare to get in or out. I just dislike the city honestly.

This train stuff is a big reason imo. People who don't live in Brussels always experience these problems when they enter and leave, so it's bound to shape the image of the city

My grandparents used to live near Brussela and I went there regularly as a kid. Later I also studied in Brussels - and so did my wife (after we met) and I spend some years there "op kot". We live right between Ghent and Brussels and Ghent used to be our favourite shopping city but since a few years it changed back to Brussels. Ghent is really nice but is doing its very best chasing away fun shoppers who do not live in the city. I can dig the vibe in Brussels but somehow as Flemish I do not feel very welcome. In some places they look at you like you're a pile of shit - until you switch to French. Which doesn't help its reputation among the Flemish. It is also a fact there is a lot of crime compared to other Belgian cities, but again that counts for every large city. More police in the streets would not harm though, it would make a big deal to at least secure in and around the railway stations, metro lines and the city centre and make sure people are safe there.

Past years I came out of trainstation Brussel South and I saw multiple hobos just pissing in plain sight, once a female pissing while keeping intense eye contact. Dirty mattresses, junk dumped. Even damn plane seats, how tf do people get hold of those? Advertising boards with bullet holes in it.   I don’t see that kind of things happen in other places. It was for work so can’t imagine what happens after hours..   Trying to normalise it by denying or “other places have it too”, is just not being able to handle the truth.   Sorry but Brussel is dirty and certainly has it problems.

Aren't you generalising very much? Not all of Brussels looks like Gare du Midi. While I agree, Gare du Midi is a huge problem, I think, it's quite unfair to base your whole opinion of Brussels on it.

You can’t keep intense eye contact with someone looking away so she probably wanted you to stop staring.

I don't really see the whole Bruxelles as bad but there is some place I'd rather not go if I don't need to. It's true for the Capital in general. driving there is never a good time. I feel the city is always in construction. Concerning the joke overused I guess it's our Flemish friends talking shit as usual. I mean they have a lot of shit going on in their big city too. The problem with Bxl is that it's the center of a lot of things so it's only natural that the good AND the bad are intensify. That's my two cents on the matter.

Brussels is a beautiful and historic city but you can practically see the city flounder year by year. I think a lot of people criticize it because much like you, it's problems usually get deflected "W-well, it's just big city problems! S-sometimes our city does good things still!" I understand your pride in Brussels, but it's quite frankly heartbreaking to see just how quickly pretty serious issues are piling up, and it's way and beyond what you'd expect for a "big city." Your beautiful city has in most of it's well-traveled area's become dirty, crime-ridden, unhospitable and as a visitor you can actively see it gets tangibly worse year after year. And honestly, people like you are to blame OP. Your beautiful city is doomed so long as people like you constantly try to put your head in the sand and ignore all the mounting problems your city is facing.

I lived in Brussels for 3 years (near Midi). French is one of my native languages, so language isn't a problem for me either. I visited a large percentage of the city. I enjoyed a lot of it, but I left as soon as my contract ended (granted, some places we looked at were in Brussels). I've lived around the world, and while it isn't anywhere near as bad as some places, it is extremely dirty and smelly. On a more personal level, walking or biking around on the roads is often scary, despite the 30 km/h restriction on most roads. (I was there for that transition.) If you're a driver, pedestrians cross without looking. If you're a pedestrian or a cyclist, many drivers often (i.e., 2+ times per long walk, so I won't say most) _accelerate_ rather than slow down or stop. You mention the bike lanes, and they've started to increase, but the quantity (no separation, weird placement, etc) and quality is still low, especially given the drivers. Public transport is so-so. Trains are not reliable, metro is extremely reliable and very good, but surface tram and bus go back to exhausting. Sorry, didn't bother structuring this post, just saying things that are coming to my mind.

It is very astonishing how Belgians, on average, do not know Brussels when you think of how close they live from the city. You really have Belgians living 40 minutes from Brussels that never go there and are so biased over the city. Typically my parents will take to you about Molenbeek as if they know what is living there but they have never been there.

I worked in an office in Molenbeek for like 10 years. It was honestly OK, although the week or two they were hunting for those terrorists just down the street was a bit surreal.

I live like 15-20 minutes from Brussels. Been there a few times but avoid it like the plague because it is always trouble. Go to Atomium --> have to fight a hobo who tries to steal my mom's bag Go to city center with some interns we had --> one gets her handbag ripped off her Next group of interns goes to Brussels to catch a Flixbus --> their bags get stolen from the bus after a group rips open the luggage compartment Friends from London had to pass through Brussels South to get back home here --> multiple issues with hobos and drug addicts over the years My then girlfriend had to do a course in Brussels --> harased, so for the next year I went to drop her off and pick her up. Now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever had a -good- experience in Brussels. To me it's mainly Hobo's, druggies, and people who harass you mixed with a bit of the elite of society.

Strange living there now for 9 years, never had anything like this happen. Only happens to people who occasionally come here it seems.

Usually People who want to pickpocket or harras or whatever target people who look out of place, people that aren't 'native' like tourists and such because they are easy targets and behave differently from people who actually know the place. That's why it's usually People who come to visit a city (doesn't matter which one really) have so many negative experiences compared to the inhabitants of that city. This is even more so in big or touristy cities. That being said I would never go to Brussels unless I really have to. Also being from Antwerp I know the places to avoid to not get into trouble so I've never really had bad experiences in my own city but I know we have our own troubles and if I wouldn't know where not to go I wouldn't visit antwerp either so if you wanna visit a big city be informed and dont act like a tourist if you wanna stay out of trouble 😋

This. I know Brussels better and got good at looking like I'm aware of my surroundings, but don't know Antwerp at all, so obviously the only time I ever got pickpocketed was in the Antwerp metro, and I never really learned how to enjoy that city. I think they are both places that get more enjoyable once you get to know them.

From a friend who lives there (we always make him come here because nobody wants to go there), it's because us outsiders don't know the bad places which you should avoid. But I don't want to be in a place where you have to know where you shouldn't go

See, that's also weird. I've lived all my life in Brussels, and had my wallet pickpocketed once. and I've been to the Atomium, often taken the train both in North and South, took often the flixbus at North, and nothing noteworthy every happens. Why does stuff like this always happens to people living outside Brussels. Though I can perhaps understand it a bit. When it comes to negative experiences, Antwerp in my experience is by far worse, and I've been there maybe only 15 times, compared to... being all my live in Brussels. Either way, I take such comments like the one above with a lot of salt. that's not to say I don't have friends or people visiting Brussels that had a shitty experience, but I can count those on one hand.

I guess because some people already come here with a prejudice about the city, and they only see the negative about the city, but never the postive sides and are looking for ways to prove their prejduce. Or they look like scared tourists and are easy victims for petty crime. People who only on occasions come to the city, only seem to hang around the centre - Brouckere/Bourse- that seems to be the place where everyone goes for some reason when they come to Brussels. Most Flemish don't even know about Ixelles, Sint Gilles or other areas. Exactly I have so many friends visiting from outside of Brussels, and I show them around, and they love it. And are always surprised how nice the city is.

It's not that surprising that people only stay in the center, most people do the exact same in other cities.

Worked there for many years, only had one group of 13 year olds acts though once but they just went away when they saw how irritated I was after a hard day at the office lol. Got a hobo once who was a bit offended I didn't got any cash, she went away after a few minutes. Had a lot off people help me in a lot of languages over the years, got fed, got directed, gotten many thanks for helping others. Even by people you deem the lowest of society Especially close to the center of blinds, it always warms my hearth how random people of the street recognize someone is blind and just take their arm and help them on their way. You're speaking with a bias. I'm looking at everyone with a bit of empathy and the whole city changes into a vibrant multi cultural soop. Ever offered a bottle of water to someone homeless? And I know the possibility exists that my naivity will betray me someday, but that's just one instance of bad against a whole lot of good. Btw: I've been robbed with a knife in the country side.

thank you for adding that comment, a pleasure to read

Vreemd, ik ben ook al vele malen in Brussel geweest, rond de stations maar nooit zoiets meegemaakt. Er zijn wel zwervers, maar die liggen meestal een beetje halfdood op straat.

Yeah I feel like some people get offended by seeing a homeless guy. As if his existence is an attack on their calm life

Me and my wife been living like 12 years in Brussels and … I got my phone stolen once. That’s about it and we go out a lot in the city, same experience for about everyone we know as well. Note: indeed there are certain parts of the city we don’t come often. However I’ve lived in several large cities in other countries and this applies there as well; at a certain scale you tend to have bad neighborhoods were crime is concentrated.

You're mixing cause and effect. We DO go to Brussels and every time we go there it's not a good experience. You see, you think we don't like Brussels because we never go there, but in reality we avoid going there *because* we don't like it. It's not bias, it's experience. Ironically, it's probably the people in Brussels who need to get out of Brussels more often and see how much better things could be. It's like they internalized Brussels as "normal".

I do understand what you are saying, it's only after living abroad or long trip that I rediscover the city when coming back. My family lives mainly in rural Wallonia and I can understand that the city can be overwhelming. I sort of share that feeling when going to Paris or especially New York. Everything is faster, people have less time to be nice (yet in Brussels people are very nice), you have more noise and traffic. Once you live in Brussels or any other medium to big city, you get used to handle hobos and beggars. You know how to ignore people or send them off. You know to taike out your airpods and put everything back in your pocket when getting close to a train station. You know how to change your behaviour in the city centre and if you want to go out and drink too much you know where to go in posh part of the city or close to your place so you don't get your smartphone stolen. That's a lot of challenges you might not have in other parts of Belgium. But at the same time there are a lot of parks, forest and nice communes that offer similar quality of life if you can afford the rent. And the public transports are the best in class for Belgium. The amount of activities, not even expensive ones, that you can do in the evenings and week-ends are enormous. In Brussels you can be anonymous and meet people from all over the world. You need to find your communities but people are far morre laid-back than in many other cities. And in Brussels I don't hear barely veiled racist remarks about foreigners, unemployed, ... Whereas it's common place in Flanders and Wallonia. It's a huge melting pot and it fosters open mindness and tolerance. So in many ways, Brussels is pretty different to the rest of Belgium.

Well... it is true that I do started looking at Brussels differently. At one point I had to go to Antwerp at least once or twice a week. My god, was I happy once I saw sights of the Ring of Brussels. Obviously, experiences colour your view of a city. Yours is negative of Brussels, and mine is pretty bad of Antwerp, I find it a cold, unwelcoming city. I only go there if I really have to. Gent is positive, and I gladly go there, and advise it to people. But again, that's not the point. Have your biased view of Brussels. But if there is a post about Brussels being positive, just let it be. don't go trash-talking. I'm not mentioning that you better not talk any other language in Antwerp, because people might aggress you, in a post about Antwerp's Museums.

I fucking love Brussels and i do think it’s the best place in 🇧🇪

Am Antwerpian, Antwerp is dead, a shadow of what it used to be. All the new construction is ugly AF too. Brussels is ugly in many places and dirty but at least it's exciting. The migrants and junkie situation has gotten out of hand though, that's for sure, perhaps some other cities could help carry some of the burden? As for the bashing, Brussels is a symbol of alienation to Flemish people. A big city that changed language and that's as far removed from an ugly fermette with a BMW and three blond children as you can get .

Totally agree. That is the mentality these days. Always look for the negative. I have family there from my mothers side and they love the city. Everything you need is there. And they don't feel less safe than in any other city

I feel like this post was made to lowkey insult Antwerp. 

Antwerp (and other cities for that matter) have shit parts. But in Brussels practically every major neighborhood has a shit part, and getting worse over the years. It’s not just baseless “Brussels bashing” that’s going on, Brussels is a horrible mess that’s being misgoverned by 19 (!!) municipalities and an utterly useless regional government & parliament. Yes there are nice parts obviously, but holy shit open your eyes.

What's up with all those posts defending Brussels always and everywhere? All jokes aside, it's a discussion that for me at least weighs towards the depressing side. No, it's not about 'people on the outside'. I'm on the inside, for 3 years now. Let's see what I can come up with in 5 minutes: cons: * Language. Had to get married in French. Can't be helped at town hall in Dutch. Do not have access to medical emergency in Dutch. Yes, it is important to me that I can address certain topics with the nuances of my own language. * Dirty. Still in doubt whether it is an organizational issue, or whether it's just the attitude of the inhabitants. The trash calendar ain't hard to read. Yes, it changed a year ago. Try harder! * Attitude. Laissez-faire. Issues with homeless people? Meh. Who's in charge of clean up? Meh. Brussels-midi? Let's take a picture of a cleanup mission, wait 2 days, then meh. * Post. I can't get anything delivered. Stolen/non-delivered items: 2, after which i stopped trying. pros: * MIVB is better than de lijn. I've no idea where you get air quality and biking lanes. Vorst has them, which is nice. The rest is pretty much a suggestion. Especially outside the city centre 'car free' zone you are risking your life. Acces to healthcare? Well, see language.

Maybe it's a Flemish Region thing? I live in Wallonia and never heard anyone bashing Brussels as a whole. Of course, certain areas get bashed because of the stereotypes on the inhabitants espacially... There are so many activities you can do (just need to do a bit of research), it's a busy city but it's not for everyone.

Not a fan of going to Brussels because it's full of people I don't want to be around. The last time I was in Brussels I had to be in the Brussels South area for work. Didn't feel safe to be honest, came across several people visibly under the influence of drugs. Due to the bad traffic situation, I usually take the train. The first impression of Brussels has been the same over the past 25 years. Everything looks dirty and impoverished as soon as you enter the Brussels area. Similar stories from friends and family. I know an NMBS worker who sometimes has to fix things in Brussels at night -- he gets a police escort. Road worker who had to do jobs in Brussels, equipment gets stolen left and right. Everything has to be locked up and watched over much more securely than in other cities.

Aaah mandatory: “Brussels is a hellhole” Grts from Bruhhe 🫶🏻

and a mandatory: "Where yo consonants at, bruh?" Cheers from Brussééééls ❤️

I absolutely love everything about brussels. You are completely invisible, nobody cares about you. I love this so much. I mean this in a good way, if you would need help, people would help but the chaos is like a pile of ants. Everybody minding their own business

They're jealous because they spend all their day in their car

The big issue imho is that most people who visit/pass Brussels mainly and firstly see the train stations. Brussels South and North are dumps and the two worst neighborhoods of the city are right next to it (Kuregem and the Brabantwijk respectively). I’m a bit at a loss why the authorities don’t try to clean this up properly, but it’s an old problem so I guess hard. Otherwise Brussels has plenty of nice and really agreeable areas, or where else do you think all the rich French, eurocrats and diplomats hang out? It’s (and I’m writing as a Flemish) superior to Gent or Antwerpen, but yeah the average Flemish rarely visits these parts…

Name me a country where its citizens do not bash their capital on every possible occasion. You should see how the french talk about Paris :)

My take on this is that Brussels is "the big city". So its really no different than Southerners in the USA talking shit about Washington, Chicago, or New York (which is a major theme in American country music). In France, people talk shit about Paris. In Holland, people talk shit about the Randstad (amsterdam and Rotterdam). Who DOES portray Brussels as being comfortable, fat, and lazy are the British and American press (for example, The Economist or the FT), who imagine the Brussels population as consisting of 99% elderly, lazy champagne-drinking, caviar-eating, soft do-nothing bureaucrats who do nothing except debate about quality standards for butter and cheese, while nothing critical actually gets done (which is ALSO a wild exaggeration IMO).

Damn imagine being but hurt because they diss your city.

it's just a shame that the heart of europe is this ugly.    even some of the classic musea are outdated.   i went to the nature history museum last and half the stuff is damaged or not working... t

Lol it's not ugly. Where did you go?

Seems to me there is a bit of an informal coalition of vocal Brussels-haters. (For reference/disclaimer, I am French (from the South) but lives in Brussels for 8 years now and still a bit in the eurobubble category) You have Belgians who are not Brusseleirs and they usually criticize it - Flemish and Walloons alike with nuance on the criticism but it usually comes down to it being too big, dirty, too culturally mixed. And they tend not to make efforts or care in any way to go there to visit or shop. You probably have some Brusseleirs who are also not happy with how their neighborhood has changed and they are moving further away to BW or wherever. Or the Brusseleirs that are happy with the city are usually discreet and not too vocal about it. Then you have many expats and immigrants alike who feel like they are just here for their work and do not care much about the city, are longing to go back or go elsewhere and will always be vocal about their dislike of the city. I see plenty of French and other Europeans working in EU affairs in this category. So in the end you have plenty of people like me who love Brussels and like to say it but we are not as vocal as the haters. A silent majority kind of situation. Well if it helps keep it as a hidden gem for us that is fine with me.

you know... that"s exactly how it sometimes feels like in this subreddit: "an informal coalition of vocal Brussels-haters." that squash any slightly positive sound coming out of this city.

#kakopeenmuts

I keep passing this comment, and it brings a smile to my face every time.

It's just small people being afraid of the big city, and trying to rationalize that fear.

Nice try rationalizing it by yourself.

It’s not though.

perhaps that, but I wonder howmuch is also just "group-spirit", like it's fashionable to shit on Brussels, and being even slightly positive will get you condemnation. And perhaps also misplaced pride in their own city compared to Brussels.

> Big city Lmao at Brussels people thinking they live in a big city.

Everything is relative :-)

You're right I should've put big in quotes, as that's from the scared outsider's perspective. That Brussels is still human size even though it's an international city is one of its selling points.

I also think it's hilarious Flemish people bash on Brussels for being ugly. Sure some of the historical city centres are amazing, but the rest of Flanders is absolutely hideous. Nothing as depressing as taking the train from Brussels to the coast.

Probably because most of Belgium is selfish "village" mentality fed with political parties flourishing on fear of what's different. It's probably because it's easy to criticize what you don't know Probably because nothing has been put in place to create a common culture and mindset at federal level. We don't have "erasmus" at belgian level (in fcat yes but so little nobody knows), creating links between North, brussels, South. Probably because part of what is said is true and because brussels vision/ strategy/ execution is below what could be expected even if it's way better than what is depicted. Also because reddit Belgium ( the four of them) is overflowd with politically oriented messages and users thar doesn't reflect the reality. But the most funny is that we actually don't give a flying fuck. We love brussels, we are fucking brusseleir. From carbeek to noble fuccle, from vlaamse jette to marokaanse molen, from berchem to bxl city, we love our city and we don't have time to listen the haters that have so pointless lives that they need to troll our city online and in the press. Our multiculturalism is our strength, not our weakness, deal with it <3

Flemmers gonna flem.

Brit here. I've visited Belgium a few times (posted a few pictures on this sub) I visited Brussels in 2022 and really loved the city to be honest. I'm from England's second biggest City and I saw the same problems in Brussels as Brum but don't all big cities in Europe have issues? (Wealth divide, homelessness, litter...etc) but nothing major, I loved the culture, food and generally friendly people of Brussels not to mention the fantastic street art

I'm so over people acting like Brussels is fine, being completely in denial about all the problems and people should really just stop complaining about the state of Brussels and just be ignorant too. Have you fucking seen the place?

People who are constantly dunking on Brussels seem to never leave the Pentagone. I'm Flemish but I absolutely love Brussels, despite the fact that, yes, the stations smell like piss. But places like Place Collignon, Terkamerenbos, the area around the Union football ground, Jette, Place Plasky, .... Do I sometimes feel unsafe, sure, but it's absolutely not as dangerous as some pretend it to be. And yes, some people won't understand you when you exclusively use Dutch. Boo-fucking-hoo. Try French or English.

All despite what Brussels apologists claim: - it's barely bilingual. Good luck trying to get service anywhere non-governmental in Dutch. And even public services or governmental things, can't count on it. - it's filthy. Apologists will insist the littering is done by outsiders. - it's unsafe, even worse than Antwerp. - it's ruining public transport for the whole country. The north-south connection is a bottleneck but it's made worse by Brussels youths thinking walking on the tracks is funny. Who does nothing about that? the parents of those hoodlums and the Brussels public prosecutor/parket. - rampant beggar problem (a classic one: the "cripple" loitering at an intersection). Not in Ghent, Leuven, Antwerp, Louvain-La-Leuve, Liege, Edinburgh, London, Almere, Lille, Köln. So no, not a "big city problem". More a "lax local government" problem. - Brussels-inhabitant yuppies still look down on the rest of the country, thinking it's nothing but farmland outside their city. If you're selective, yes, Brussels has green, Brussels has posh areas. Like Vorst. But it also has Auderghem, Molenbeek, Schaarbeek. One of the very few things Brussels has going for it, if you can still find a Dutch-speaking Brusseleir, is the juicy AF dialect. Shows of the Brussels Volkstejoêter are a delight. It's time to stop pretending the mentioned issues are somehow common or inherent to big cities and rather than complaining about the complaints, start actually doing something about the complaints.

I lived in Budapest for a decade and Brussels BARELY registers. Now on the other hand if somebody thinks white people don't do that then yeah Brussels seems like an apocalypse.

> I mean, if I see a post on Antwerp, I'm not going in there to mention that its only contribution is a horrible dialect, a stupid joke about parking and grenades. You don't, but many others do. It's what we do in Belgium, hate each other untill there is some football going on.

We should synchronize elections with the World Cup, finally Belgian peace!

I dont care about this at all, but your pro's for Brussels listed here are: its our capital and sometimes it does things good. Without any prior knowledge, yes, you made me also think bad about Brussels

As a west-flemish, I love my entire country, there's not one region I don't like. Wallonia is beautiful, full of friendly people, amazing natural places to visit. Flanders feels so accessible as someone that doesn't drive, I got everything that I need. Brussels feels important, maybe it's not or whatever. The couple of times I've been there for work related reasons I always wanted to explore more. I can't stop loving Bruges, it's perfect for me If I hear someone talk badly about Brussels or Wallonia it's always, ALWAYS, some flemish nationalist fuck so why would I care about their opinion

Have my upvote for being super chill an positive.

i think constructive criticism of how things are run (by politicians) is essential in a democracy. is reddit the place to discuss this, will policy makers listen? probably not the central place to do this but certainly an option. if i was a politician, i would be here. at least to listen, because why not?

Not sure about air quality, I've read a few times in the news that it is very polluted.

I lived in Brussels for 12 years as a Flemish person and I can say there’s a lot of people who absolutely love Brussels. Mostly the people who end up living there. Also the city cleaned up tremendously the last decade and is on its way to improve even more. In my experience Brussels bashing is done mostly by people who barely have experience in the city. Often come from quiet villages. Maybe go out there once every so often or work near Brussels south or North train station. (The worst areas). But! There’s a whole subculture of Flemish people loving Brussels now. Think of the derogatory Dansaert Vlaming. I mention Flemish people because a lot of them are the most hard on Brussels. It’s not only a big city with many nationalities but they speak French which is extra strange for them. If you do speak French or you simply speak English which you can pull off in Brussels you will have a good time. Some areas are still quite Dutch speaking even. And for the haters, you don’t know jack shit.

I mean the upside is that property prices would be out of this world if all the Brussels haters would actually take time to know and appreciate the city. So as long as so many hate it, we can keep a good thing going here :)

Every country loves to bash their capital. And reverse. In Belgium it's also an actual seperate entity, just like wallonia and flanders are so that probably 'helps'.

Love Brussels, going there always feels like i’m on a citytrip. Just walking around having drinks soaking it in, only real big city vibe in Belgium.

I’m not sure but I think it’s mostly flemish people not identifying with a city that doesn’t speak their language. If Brussels was dutch speaking again, flemish people’s view on the city would already be better. 

BXL is een schijthol.

As a foreigner who moved to Belgium from Eastern Europe the state of Brussels is a bit shocking to me. The amount of poverty, dirt and drugs usage is really striking. In my country we also hate on the capital city, mostly due to the arrogance of people who live there, but it is still a really great, vibrant city and extremely clean. I lived in Rotterdam and Berlin and I could argue that both those cities had "big city issues" but nowehere near those of Brussels. Personally, I find it a shame, as it is a city that is supposed to be the capital of Europe, but as many others have said, even the minute you arrive at a train station you immidiately have a feeling like the city is run down and not well maintained.

There are a lot of things to do in Brussels, every evening you can choose from multiple concerts/activities, so if you have some money to spend it's never boring. On the other hand, Brussels is like a train station with people (expats/immigrants) coming and going, so there is not a deep connection between people. Instead of throwing garbage in the garbage collector, you throw it out of your window, and you don't care what neigbors think when you invite a one of the many Brazilian escorts to your place that are on offer in Brussels. Then, you also have the Arab communities in the Western part of Brussels. These people do have a strong sense of community (thanks also to their common religion); some of them also throw garbage in the street because it's more "culturally" accepted there.

No idea how people call Brussel dirty, i come from a developing country ( italy ) and its actually so fucking dirty to a point that normal belgians would have a heart attack walking here 30 minutes

Napoli whenever the ndrangheta extorts people by not removing the trash for weeks.

Fun fact: google the most boring city in the world and Brussels comes up as #1 (srs) On a more serious note: you have the drug problems, the general dirtiness, the non integrated parts, the terrible traffic, the depressive dark atmosphere, the violence (shooting, stabbings, fistfights, theft and rape) + the homelessness. The only people who say positive things about Brussels are the people who ended up buying their property there, or have to stay in Brussels because of their work. It's really not about bashing. Brussels doesn't feel like Belgium. It's like a little New York and it being the center of Europe, the city of solidarity, is downright embarrassing 🤦‍♂️ If you actually are in love with this city (which is odd to say the least), why feel the need to defend it or care about people who criticize it? What are you afraid of? I couldn't give 2 f*cks about what people have to say about my city as long as I like it.

Come on black people what do you have to lose? Seriously mate I would not be surprised that you would rather die than learn french but dare to talk about integration.

Flemish people don’t like anyone that isn’t them

Personally I believe the reason this is happening is actually out of passive aggressiveness that they want the government to work harder to do something about it. In the sense of "just in case you didn't know, Mr mayor, this is what your city is known for, maybe do something about it?"

Commenting as someone who has lived in Brussels for like 15 years (I'm also a Gen Z). Most people I've seen hating on Brussels are Flemish. I'm a francophone (French-speaking) and I don't think Walloons hate Brussels as much as Flemish people do. I guess it's due to the langage gap (not barrier because Vlamingen speak very good English). I have to say though that it's wrong to assume that we have a sense of superiority and that we refuse to speak English or Dutch. If the person you talk with don't speak those langages, it's probably that they're just incapable of doing so. There are also plenty monolingual English or Dutch speakers, right ? I don't undermine people's bad experience though, but comparing Brusselaars/Bruxellois to Parisians is a bit far-fetched ? Most Brussels people are going to be okay with speaking English if they're able to do so. I am also aware that I'm an exception because I'm learning Dutch (for strategic and economical reasons, not by passion). Brussels people are mostly francophone and are alienated with Flemish culture. This is a vicious circle because there's no reason to learn Dutch because everyone speaks French and there are barely any Dutch speakers (that don't speak French or English, and it's probably because of the verfransing-francisation) thus it makes it even more difficult to be encouraged to learn Dutch. You can blame it on individuals but I think that it's a societal problem at the core. I even mention that I study for strategic reasons because there's BARELY any contact made between Brussels people (francophone) and Flemish people ; frankly, we mostly don't know you, Vlamingen. The mandatory Dutch lessons are not enough to bridge the gap, we have our own clichés about Vlamingen not wanting to speak English or French even though they can. The Vlaming is a very distant figure for us, and I wish it weren't the case. This is the langage problem, and the one I don't really understand. There are other valid criticisms of Brussels and those ones I generally agree with. Antwerp probably has the same problem (drugs, insecurity, etc.) But having lived in the so-called shitty neighbourhoods, I acknowledge that it's not normal but 1. Not all Brussels is like this and 2. I can't help but think that you were very lucky, living in a relatively calm environment. To conclude : Brussels is a relatively normal capital city, with huge government/management problems, that's majorly francophone despite its bilingual status. Nevertheless, I don't want Vlamingen to automatically assume we're no go. You can't complain about feeling strange in the city while closing the bridge at the same time. I can't blame you, though: I guess Leuven or Gent are better cities. (Writing in English because I want to be understood by everyone).

I mainly dislike it because it should be a bi-lingual city. Which it definitely is, most people in restaurants and shop don’t know Dutch.

Brussels is downright ugly

I agree with what other said: * I don't relate to Brussels, or its culture. * I don't like big, crowded, noisy cities. * The traffic and infrastructure is a nightmare to get around in (if you're not local). * Bums, beggars, drunks, drug addicts, prostitutes and people looking for trouble. * Brussels being bi-lingual is a fantasy. Dutch gets scoffed at, you better speak French. Moreover, there are much nicer cities, like Ghent, Bruges, Antwerp, Leuven or Hasselt. Sorry, I just don't like it there and I drag my feet whenever I go to the Cirque Royal or AB to attend a concert. The latest trope of people hassling you when getting in or out of your car has put me off entirely.

Try walking at night in Brussels. That's why.

I was born and raised in Gent, but I lived for 16 years in Brussels, and I loved it. The only thing I hated was the traffic, eternally clogged... The observation that neither the Flamish nor the Walloons like Brussels is quite correct. The Flamish have a saying: unknown is unloved, and that applies bang on for Brussels. But this town has SO much to offer...

I don't bash on Brussels always and everywhere, but I don't think of it in a positive light either. Most people in Brussels can't speak either language (French/Dutch), and pull off broken French/English and a judgmental look if you dare to speak Dutch. For the rest, it's similar with other bigger cities. They often have a lot of unsolved trouble and it's a world on its own. Hard to understand for those that haven't lived there.

Several reasons: - it is filthy; - most ppl refuse to speak Dutch; - it’s where the politicians are; - mostly arrogant populace; - is technically in Flanders but act like they’re French and keep encroaching on Flemish grounds; - infested with criminals; - full of illegals and criminal migrants; - migrant gangs from Brussels go to Flemish towns to cause trouble and crime; - the detached royals live there; - feels like another country.

No my dude I work in toll collection and it has 4 regions, Wallonia, Flanders, outer ring of Brussels and inner city. It's neither technically nor legally in Flanders nor was it ever. As for the rest of your comment, it screams of "I can't tell a second generation Belgian from a Tunisian apart but then again eastern Europeans also look the same to me".

“It’s technically in Flanders” as in it’s surrounded by Flanders … As for your second reaction: I myself am a third generation and grew up around two Tunisian kids 😅 

Like anything complex in life, the boring truth is Brussels is amazing, Brussels is awful. It is both awful and amazing at the same time! It all depends on *what* we're talking about. On the positive side, there's lovely music, art, (some) wonderful neighborhoods, lots of cultural things to do, international festivals and other life's good stuff. On the negative side, there's the well-known boogeyman of Brussels North (and to some extent, Brussels-South) region. As a man, I get fucking *chills* when I walk out of the Brussels North station; I recommend women to stay *far* away from Brussels-North. Once you get out of the station, you're greeted by a street full of drug-dealers, drunkards, thugs, and scary-looking violent people (they recently killed a police officer). Overall, the whole of Brussels-North is a stinking sewer; the NMBS police around the North themselves say so. (Not to mention the thefts on the trains in the Brussels region. I wrote my recent awful experience of how I got quietly robbed on the train—a backpack with almost 3000-euros worth of goods in it: https://www.reddit.com/r/belgium/comments/1bha346/comment/kvm20fy/) Is this the "EU capital"? The incompetent Brussels politicians should be utterly *ashamed* of themselves for this kind of rot and neglect. They should get off their lazy asses and clean up the Brussels South and North regions. So yeah, Brussels is amazing, Brussels is atrocious. Both at the same time.

Because it's a shithole?

I visited Brussels with my students and colleagues. We are a school from the city center of Antwerp. There are indeed some prejudices. We did a two day exchange. Students from us to Brussels and than them coming to Antwerp. Wonderfull experience. By seeing Brussels with a Brussels native, most of the prejudices were gone. We need to meet each other more. See each other more. Brussels and Flanders, Flanders and Wallonia, Brussels and Wallonia...