This time I had a *lot* of help from relocation experts. They are incredibly knowledgeable people and it would be impossible to do good work without them.
Thank you for writing this! Can you recommend one of these relocation experts? I'd like to speak to one of them about my process and get help. Feel free to PM me, or let me know if it's ok for me to PM you.
Thanks again :)
u/n1c0_ds
I work with Kathleen Parker at Red Tape Translation since 7 years. Elliot Hermann is also great. My go-to immigration lawyer is Fional Macdonald. It takes time to build trust with people so I make recommendations sparingly. However those people are tested and true.
Big ups for this guide. This has been my strategy more or less going from first to final appointment at the ABH. After many renewals and spouse visa stuff this approach works and is generally stress free.
Also, please be responsible for knowing when your expiration dates are. Being proactive with renewals and applications is beneficial. I hear many cases where being proactive would have resolved the issue before escalation.
Nice work.
It's really hard to be proactive when the other side is not reactive.
Another problem is that they'll often say no things to save themselves work. You have to master the art of the 3-paragraph, legally-padded, slightly threatening "doch".
I applied for a residence permit 9 weeks before mine expires, and I asked for a Fiktionsbescheinigung (with valid personal reasons). They answered 8 weeks before the expiration date, saying that they don't issue them until 6 weeks before the expiration date.
My answer was basically "delaying this will not save you work, and I'll will be a pain in your ass if you don't give me the damn Fiktionsbescheinigung that I'm legally entitled to" ... ^(Mit freundlichen Grüßen)
I mention it in the guide, and more obviously in my (newly rewritten) residence permit guides. In my opinion it's totally worth it, and my experience with the lawyers I work with only reinforce that opinion.
I think that it's because case workers know that messing with your lawyer will not save them time, and that processing your case will save them a lawsuit.
Another point that I think might be useful for Blue card holders is that, after 1 year of employment one can change jobs without informing the LEA. Earlier this was possible(ie., without informing LEA) only after two years.
Source: LEA website “Die Blaue Karte EU wird für die Aufnahme einer konkreten Beschäftigung ausgestellt. Nach einem Jahr Beschäftigung auf dieser Stelle ist jede Beschäftigung erlaubt, ohne dass die Ausländerbehörde informiert oder die Blaue Karte EU geändert werden muss.”
This changed in October :)
Now you don't even need permission. See 18 Abs 4 AufenthG: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__18g.html
I didn't have enough information at the time to mention it, but it's the next item on my agenda.
As far as I know, it applies to all Blue Cards. You should double-check with a lawyer though.
Like I said in another comment, this is a fairly new thing, so we need a few months of data to see how the LEA interprets the law.
In my case a written letter solved the appointment issue. 🙈
So many mails and number of visits no response. Wrote a letter stating my current visa status to the employee working there. Got termin and visa is extended.
🙋🏻♀️ hi! my work visa expires in feb 2024, i have an unlimited contract with my employer. been trying for months with no luck getting an appt. i have all my documents ready so today i filled out a contact form explaining my situation and attaching as many of the docs as i could (there were 5 available attachment options). i said in my note that i had the rest of the docs ready. at this point do i just wait? am i okay to travel until my current visa expires? thanks vvvv much for your help!
This does not count as an application. You have to send *all* your documents, as if you were going to the LEA in person.
Then you have the right to stay, but not the right to leave and re-enter. For that you'd need a Fiktionsbescheinigung. It gets a bit more complicated for people who can travel in Germany visa-free, but I don't have clear details about that.
how do i send all the documents if there’s only 5 options for attachments? should i put them all in one pdf? (sorry if this is a totally dumb question)
and do i have the right to leave and re enter until my visa expires?
thank you!
If you have too many documents, [merge them](https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/merge-pdf.html) or [make them smaller](https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/compress-pdf.html).
I'm pressuring them to change that, but they're saying that the form was not designed for submitting applications (despite the lack of alternatives).
Another option is to mail your documents
just want to say thank you so much for your help and advice! i sent all my documents merged together as a pdf and attached them to the contact form with my info and received a reply a week ago offering me an appointment. thank you, im very grateful and super relieved!!
righto, thank you so much! is it pointless to mail them and send them thru the contact form? this will be my third message thru the contact form (i used it to just send an inquiry about getting an appt last month before realizing i should send my docs too) or is that overkill?
>For example, Blue Card holders no longer need permission from the LEA to switch jobs
Could you please elaborate/confirm this? Having a blue card with a Zusatzblatt that specifically ties the relationship for 2 years. The change makes it possible to sign new contracts without having explicit confirmation from LEA?
What happens if the contract is signed (assuming that it meets the blue card conditions), and then they respond negatively?
I'm a bit confused, for people who will enter soon Germany with a 1-year national visa, there is no need anymore to get a residence permit until the visa expires? What other potential problems can it cause besides the ones mentioned (landlord and bank issues)?
That's correct. They started telling people to wait until their National Visa is about to expire, 12 months later.
It makes it much harder to open a bank account or rent an apartment. Since you don't have an eID, you can't use certain digital government services. This includes registering your business, applying for Kindergeld, and a few other things. Now you need a residence permit to register your business and a business registration certificate to get your residence permit.
I spend all day trying to solve these problems. The biggest issue is that there is no one to file a bug report to. It's broken and it stays broken.
I wouldn't need most of those, I'll be on student visa. Not being able to open a bank account in most banks and dealing with apartments is a pain. My primary concern is this - if I leave Germany during the 1 year for a short period (like a week), am I allowed to reenter again?
Honestly I didn't think of that. I don't know if the National Visa is multiple-entry, but I assume so. My guess is "yes", but I'll leave myself a note to check.
Thank you Nico for this really valuable research! Things like these definitely help a lot of us and as someone already mentioned, you should wear a cape ⭐️
As someone who has a national work visa (no blue card), I'm about to change jobs and I'm really interested in this guide that you mention that is still unpublished:
>The immigration reform makes job changes faster. For example, Blue Card holders no longer need permission from the LEA to switch jobs. They just need to tell the LEA, and the LEA has 30 days to object. There are similar exceptions for the work visa. It's in a different guide that I have not finished updating yet.
I feel bad asking you for more since you already did a lot. But could I get a sneak peek? Or just validate that I only need to tell LEA and everything will be alright? 🙏
There's no sneak peak, just notes and screenshots from a relocation consultant group chat.
Don't take it from me though. Just look at [§18g Abs. 4 AufenthG](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__18g.html). If I recall correctly I wanted to wait and see how the LEA would implement it before writing about it.
Actually, my residence mentions §19C Abs. 1 AufenthG ([image here](https://i.ibb.co/NVqVYJM/Screenshot-2023-12-12-at-16-30-10.png)). Which I guess is [this one](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__19c.html). So I'm not entirely sure which norm for changing job applies to me. Any idea?
You're a skilled IT professional, I imagine?
As far as I know, there is no exception for you, so you need permission from the Ausländerbehörde, at least in your first 2 (?) years of employment.
Yep, I'm an IT professional, and I have been working for the same company since I arrived in Germany back in June 2021. So it's been 2 years and 6 months.
I already received an offer from another company, so I will be writing to the LEA as soon as I have the new contract. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that they will allow the job change. If it helps you in any way, I'll reply here when I get any confirmation 🤞
It looks like you're able to switch without getting permission then.
I'm sorry if I don't have a clear-cut answer. I honestly just don't remember. The sources in [this guide](https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/losing-your-job) should give you better answers.
Nico, you don't need to apologize. You are already doing a lot 🙌
According to that guide, I think I don't need permission. Of course I will still write to them and check that everything is in order. Crossing my fingers.
Huge thanks ⭐️
Hi Nico. Small follow up comment. I wrote to the LEA ([contact form to B1/B2/B3](https://www.berlin.de/einwanderung/ueber-uns/kontakt/artikel.1394180.php)) to inform them about the job change. I don't remember the exact date that I submitted the info in the contact but it was around the dates in this thread (\~december 12th aprox). Then in January 11th I started my new job and today I received a letter from the LEA saying that I'm allowed to change jobs 🎉
Thank you so much for this! It camled my nerves a bit. I'm a recent graduate and my student visa expired. I have sent my documents through the contact form to transfer my visa in the beginning of October, but I haven't recived a response still.
A few weeks ago, I left the country for a vacation that was planned and played almost a year in advance. I had no idea i'll be in this situation and that I'll get this bad. But, fortunately, I'm from a country that has a free schengen movement for 90 days, so I hope I'll be okay when I return.
It's so frustrating. I thought that I would at least have an appointment by this time :( but no response.....
Hey u/n1c0_ds, so I just got back yesterday and they let me back in...Here's how it went.
The guy at the passport control was relatively young and they were calling someone on the phone to ask them what do to about my situation...
When they finished, they asked me "can you read this (pointing to a sentence from my printed application where it says that while my expired residence card is valid until I get a response I can only travel within the validity of my residence card).
I explained that I did, and explained my situation, highlighting the fact that I couldn't get in touch with anyone at the immigration - that I tried but no answers.
So they say "So, why don't you just go to the immigration office in person?" And, the way they said that was like I haven't really tried - like I haven't made an effort enough... It took me a few seconds to process that...
I then tried to explain that that was impossible, that no one would let me at the immigration office without an appointment (it's appointment only) and that because of the backlog of applications that they're unreachable by phone or anything really.
However, he wasn't having it and was making faces as if I was only making excuses, and that I haven't tried hard enough, and I should do something about my situation to get myself an extension asap (as if it was something easy and straightforward).
So, I apologized and said, "I'll do everything I can." They let me go, and said that I have 90 days to fix this (because that's how much I can normally stay in Germany if I didn't have a visa or residence permit). Oho... so here we are.
> So they say "So, why don't you just go to the immigration office in person?"
A lot of Germans are disconnected from the reality at the LEA.
> and said that I have 90 days to fix this
So after all the faffing around they did what everyone told me they're supposed to do! Are you from one of the [§41 AufenthV countries](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthv/__41.html)?
Thanks a lot for putting this together!
I have a question re Fiktionsbescheinigung: you mentioned to raise a fuss when they refuse to issue one. Can you elaborate on what kind of ‘fuss’ we can do here?
I’ve been on this boat and when I phoned the bürgeramt where they were gonna issue my new residence permit card, they refused to issue a Fiktionsbescheinigung for me. I felt like I had no other choice after that, so I’d like to learn more on what I can do for future references. Thanks again!!
By raising a fuss I mean not accepting their refusal, and insisting that you are legally entitled to it.
The general idea is that case workers try to save work wherever they can, and you have to communicate that 1) you need it 2) you demand it and 3) they create more work for themselves by refusing.
This is a lot easier said than done, but it's roughly what relocation consultants and immigration lawyers told me.
Thank you so much for all these extremely detailed absolutely vital information. I hope what you touch turns to gold (a turkish expression for an immense thank you and wishing good fortune upon you)
Don't know if you are still responding to replies but would be really grateful if you do.
2 months ago I used the contact form to request for an appointment for residence permit extension (student visa). I only attached my residence permit card with the form but now I am seeing that it would've been better to attach all the required documents. So should I now send again another form with all the docs attached or the previous one which I sent is fine? My visa ended last week FYI. Thanks!
I would like to add, that during October to November, I was able to get appointment for friends that had expired visas, by trying on Wednesdays, from 9am to 5pm. I don't know if this is still the case.
About the Blue Card online, I did applied this way. And it took like 3 days to respond that i was missing some documents. After I sent the required, it took another week for they to set an appointment a month later, to give fingerprints and photos.
Thanks for your unvaluable guide. Love the Termin tool for Anmeldung.
Did you received a confirmation PDF after applying for the Blue Card Online? I did and I paid but did not get any PDF, I only have the receipt that I paid.
* **National Visas** are now issued for 12 months, and the LEA refuses to convert them to residence permits until \~6 weeks before they expired. Recent immigrants will spend 12 months without a plastic residence card. This causes all sorts of problems since people without a residence permits are unpersons to landlords and banks.
I am confused, I have D visa with a validity of 1 year and it has s supplement page that says Blue Karte. I don't know when I have to apply for the Blue Card residence permit.
On [this article](https://www.berlin.de/einwanderung/en/entry/visa-extension/artikel.1048669.en.php#longer), it says:
Was your national visa (D-Visa) issued for more than 90 days?
Holders of this sort of long-term D-Visa are issued with a different residence title (residence permit, EU Blue Card) **six weeks before the visa expires at the earliest**.
Also it says:
With a valid national visa, you can travel to the following countries in the Schengen area for **up to 90 days within a period of 180 days** (after first entry)
When can I apply for the residence permit ?
Oh ya, *much* worse. Nürnberg and Leipzig, supposedly. At least Berlin can point to the 50% rise in number of cases since 2021, and brag about digitalising some of their processes in 2023.
Yeah just came back from the Leipzig office today and wished I read this guide first :/ Asked for a Fiktionsbescheinigung and got shown the door and now I’m stuck here for the holidays
I'd say "try again with a lawyer". Like I said, you are legally entitled to it. A relocation consultant told me that Berlin also refuses sometimes, and you have to be a little more insistent.
Leipzig really? The Leipzig ABH is much better in my regard. They reply to most contact forms within a week and if that fails, they reply to faxes within 5 days. When I needed a residence permit for my mom's visa application, they gave me an appointment in like 2 weeks.
Hello,
I have an unrelated question. Do you know whether one needs to inform Agentur für Arbeit before traveling during Sperrzeit?
[https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/unemployment-benefits](https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/unemployment-benefits)
Hi OP
This is a great guide!! Thank you!
I Have my citizenship application pending since Sept 2022 and it’s lost in the digitization hole.
I am considering applying again with all the documents.
However in the meantime, my passport pages are finished and I need to apply for a new passport and have my residence card updated.
I am unable to find any appointments on the Bürger amt website or lea. The appointment link just says bad server gateway and doesn’t work
I also wanted the official letter to invite my parents to Germany and keep looking for an appointment for this service and run into the same issue
Is your recommendation to then use the contact form to ask for appointments for both?
I need to travel to the UK for work in June and need to apply for a visa so I cannot keep waiting on the LEA to find the digital files hence applying for passport and the card asap
My passport with the residence permit stamped in was stolen (our only ID lol, so we’re permanently travelers unless we pay for the card and if one is lost then all forms of ID in both the home country and Germany are lost)
My current stay expired in October and I’ve been writing them for a year and a half about extending. How tf do you get a Fiktionsbescheinigung ?? I can’t even get 1 single response from them. Who to insist to?
Also I’m a US citizen but as I don’t have the old passport or residence permit anymore would I really be able to come back into the country ? Do you write that because we have our 90 day visa free stay and the airline would just think it’s that? What about customs ?
Thanks for this! I’m still in the US and mulling over whether I should apply for my job seeking visa at the embassy and deal with the processing time of up to 3 months or go to Berlin on the 90-day tourist visa and apply there. I am moving in with my partner. I have everything I need in both cases. Is it better to apply in Berlin?
No! Apply directly in the US, and pay for the accelerated procedure (Beschleunigtes Verfahren). Don't waste money waiting for your RP while you burn money. This is the advice I give everywhere, backed by a few relocation consultants.
Thank you! Where can I find how much the accelerated procedure costs and how long that takes? They don’t mention an expedited option on the embassy website.
Answering my own question, I found the form which needs to filled. It is here - [https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/329328/](https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/329328/) (for skilled workers with academic qualifications).
But they say there is no need for a filled application when applying for extension.
Can someone, who has already done this, please confirm - if it is okay to omit the filled application form when contacting them through the contact form ?
Hello everyone,
I work in Berlin with Blue Card since 2022 January (28 months). I applied for the permanent residence permit last week. My company decided to layoff 400 people but running voluntarily termination in exchange of severance package. I am considering to take that. Last working day will be 30th of June.
How does it effect my visa status? (If Auslanderbehörde can give appointment in six weeks I would be permanent resident soon but I heard it takes up to 6 month. Is 6 months accurate right now?)
What is the latest time to find a blue card eligible job without having a problem with visa?
Can I get Arbeitslosengeld I after blocking period of 3 months? Would getting ALG I effect my permanent residence status later?
Thanks in advance,
Hey there! If I'm Americian and applied via the contact form above \^ for the 'seeking appointment' visa type, will I be okay to stay in te country past by 90 days? Or better to leave before they're up and come back?
There is no "seeking appointment" visa type. I do not understand your question. However this is an old thread and I suggest following the instructions in the first paragraph.
>You might be able to travel, if you ask for a Fiktionsbescheinigung, or if you're from one of the lucky countries
What do you mean by one of the lucky countries? Currently in a situation where my visa process is freshly underway but I have a flight out to visit family in the US for Christmas on Sunday. For clarity, I have a U.S. passport.
I submitted my paperwork to my school where they have admins who handle the visa process here. The woman who passed along all my documents says they going to "try" to expedite my visa to be ready sometime this week, since she also passed along my flight details, but obviously, I have no faith in that.
The §41 AufenthV countries, and that includes the US.
Basically, I'm in the same situation as you. A lawyer confirmed that the current policy is to let you back in, but that this could change at any time. Another expert essentially said "if you're not a resident you can still visit as a tourist, so I can't imagine it being an issue".
This is a very rough summary of how I understood their messages, so take it with a grain of salt.
If you're American you should not have a Schengen visa. Do you have a sticker in your passport with a big "C" on it?
Frankly it might be worth asking a lawyer. I assumed that you had a residence permit already. If you applied for your first residence permit it's a lot trickier.
Wow...crazy. So I guess I must remember fondly immigration services in West Berlin in 1980s before I finally immigrated to US. There were not so many issues as you see now. I guess, Germany back then was a different country, West Germany, a well oiled machine.
Why would it be a problem? Do they check the visas of people leaving the country? When I fly back to Germany nobody checks my residence permit until I reach the EU border.
>Do they check the visas of people leaving the country?
YES! Of course!. What do you think? People from Africa/Asia can just book tickets to EU/USA and board a flight?
In my experience the people that check work on behalf of the Schengen area and know what they're doing, so they hopefully would recognise a valid Fiktionsbescheinigung.
>level 3Thirstin\_Hurston · 22 days agoFiktionsbescheinigungwhat is this? My permit is expiring in March and I'm trying my hardest right now
If you have a valid Fiktionsbescheinigung, India will let you fly back to Germany. I encountered no issues during my travel with an expired blue card but don't forget to carry your expired ID card along with the valid Fiktionsbescheinigung and you should be fine :)
Maybe my experience can help someone- if you meet the criteria of earning more than the upper limit for the Blue Card, you can send an email to B1/B2/B3 LEA department with your documents. If I understand correctly, and it is quite possible I am not, this department usually deals with highly-qualified applicants who were initially sponsored by some relocation agency- however, that doesn’t mean one cannot contact them directly without a 3rd party.
Anyway, my application for a permanent residence was processed in less than 1 month that way. That was in summer this year.
But please, I am not qualified enough to share more insights. There are definitely some things that are not clear, and not mentioned anywhere, and it can go faster- maybe worth a try for some people (as said, mostly highly qualified with a blue card). Hope it helps and sorry if I am wrong in any way- please check yourself beforehand!
You must be thinking about BIS (Business Immigration System) it's a *free* service that helps employers get their employees into the country. They don't necessarily work faster, but they work a lot smoother than the other departments.
Also the new online Blue Card application process is allegedly very fast. A few relocation consultants in the group chat shared success stories this month.
Ah, yes, thank you.
I did manage to reach them using b123 email in the summer and the process was really smooth (permanent residency)- no relocation agencies involved. They were really polite and nice, too.
Since that email is no longer functional, I guess that way is now obsolete and contact form is the way to go :/
This B1/B2/B3 email seems to no longer exist. I tried using it about a month ago, and my email was bounced back. People now have to submit the documents via the contact form on the site.
Which email did you use? 3-4 years ago it was, for example, b1@lea was alive, now it is indeed not.
For me that bounced back- but b123, if I remember correctly- worked.
I’ll check later when I have better access to my computer.
Can you post these information also on the Facebook group’s International Friends Berlin und International Families Berlin , there are always a lot of lots of questions about this subject and i guess some of them probably don’t use Reddit !
Use the contact form. Use my [template generator](https://allaboutberlin.com/docs/auslanderbehorde-job-change) to write the message.
I'm rewriting this part of the website next, so some of the details about LEA + job change are slightly wrong.
u/n1c0_ds The guide mentions only 5 files to upload. Actually, if you read a tiny subscript underneath the upload UI they allow to upload 7-zip files - its a popular free utility [https://www.7-zip.org/](https://www.7-zip.org/)
That means one can upload their whole application.
The form allows it. I don't know if the LEA actually allows it.
The form maker is built by the central Basisdienst, and the LEA used that tool to create this specific form. I don't know if allowing 7zip is a conscious decision from the LEA, or something they have no control over (like the 16 MB upload limit)
I'll ask
Thankyou so much , this looks well articulated & detailed !
So you have any idea about PR Situation, I am hearing its going from 3 months to 1 year now. Is it same as resident permit, are they only prioritising whose permits are about to expire ? Any suggestion on that is appreciated
Blue Card applications are now digital, and it's a massive improvement.
This is interesting, is it already live and only in Berlin? I used to stay in Berlin, now not anymore. I wonder if this will be Bundesweit. Do you have the link to this online application?
This is a great guide, thanks for writing this. It's just a damn shame that it's so necessary. I thought things were bad when I arrived almost 8 years ago and needed to stand in a line at 3am, twice (first time got rejected, was immediately given a Fiktionsbescheinigung though), but at least I was able to get those done same-day. When I upgraded from my Niederlassungserlaubnis to my Daueraufenthalt EU a year ago, the process took almost 2 years start-to-finish. I just hope the digitized citizenship process takes less time than it takes for an anti-immigrant party to come into power and mess up processing even more somehow.
I've recently had a few high-earning friends move away after recently arriving because the idea of having to stop working for X months before they could get their first visa was unacceptable. Germany desperately needs skilled workers to prop up the failing Rentenversicherung with their high taxes.
Incredible work. Thank you very much!
>The immigration reform makes job changes faster. For example, Blue Card holders no longer need permission from the LEA to switch jobs. They just need to tell the LEA, and the LEA has 30 days to object.
Could you tell us more what is considered "Telling the LEA"? Would an email or a regular mail suffice?
Again, thank you very much!
Hi Community,
I am in the process of applying for the PR as I've been holding a blue card for 24 months now (under B1 language skills). Could someone tell me based on your experience does the PR application also takes months to get an appointment? It I be better off hiring an immigration lawyer since I want it as soon as possible?
I applied through the forms. It seems to take 3-9 months (probably depending on your department), but since you're not in a hurry with your Blue Card valid for 2 more years, it's not a big deal.
Thanks u/n1c0_ds, i am in a hurry to apply for the PR for personal reasons even though as you mentioned I have two more years on it. I guess in that case the best approach would be to go though a lawyer since by default I would have lower priority since I have time.
Yes. I applied from E4 which corresponds to my country via the contact form which is the only accepted way right now. Send the application in December 2023, and got a response last week of February (after 2 months of inactivity) requesting for B1 certificate. I did not have a B1 but have an A1 certificate, however I had a letter from my language school that I completed classes upto B1. I send them and the a1 certificate. Luckily for me, the law was changed where waiting times are now shortened to 27 months making me eligible for a PR under A1 by end of March. LEA responded last week of April once again giving me an appointment in July (three months away). So total time to get an appointment was 4 months. Could have been shorted it I already had the B1 certificate and attached it with the original application
Very valuable information. Out of curiosity I was browsing the immigration process from a local perspective.
Wtf.
It takes ages to get through all these junctions of what if else if clauses. So much information, yet it sometimes ends up in roundtrips from websites redirecting to each other.
You need to go that route to figure out how everything works.
It all starts with handing in double printed copy of the application itself personally.
Like, what the hell...
Tell me about it. The worst part is that the official information is incomplete, misleading or simply wrong. People chase documents that are impossible to get, and simply unneeded. Then they show up and the case worker is offended that they don't have a document they never asked for.
I just spent a month rewriting my freelance visa, work visa and Blue Card guides, because the information on Berlin.de is useless.
Huge thanks for this !!! I just submitted my application for the extension of my student residency permit . I also work as a working student, my contract for this ends just a week before my residency permit expires. With this can I extend my contract before getting my new residency permit?
https://www.berlin.de/einwanderung/ueber-uns/kontakt/
It's still there. I keep an updated redirect at https://allaboutberlin.com/out/auslanderbehorde-contact
Ok, probably I'm not able to find it but in that contact form link you shared, none of the links have Niederlassungserlaubnis as a section to select. If I remember correctly, they used to have it under B1 B2 B3.
Hi, thank you so much for the detailed guide!!
I know it's been a while since you posted, but I hope you don't mind answering a question specific to my case: I will be finishing my university study by the end of Jan, and as far as I know, my student visa will not be valid as soon as I de-registered from uni, which will be by the end of this semester (31 March). I got a job offer in the office where I now work part time, starting 1st of April, and I am planning to get the 18-month job-seeking visa for graduates.
I have not been able to find an appointment so far, and I would imagine the earliest I can send my application via the contact form is in Feb when I receive my graduation certificate. Do you think I should wait to at least get a confirmation from LEA before starting to work? Or will I still be able to take the work for some months while waiting for the reply (as students are allowed to work 120 full days per year). Thanks again :)
I'm not too familiar with the student visa, so I would prefer not to give a specific answer. Your university might have more knowledgeable people and communities who can help you, since a lot of people must deal with the same problem.
thank you so much for this information! you're a star.
if you or anyone would have a clue about my situation I'd appreciate the help so much!
I'm becoming unemployed in Feb 1st, after working in a company for 30 months.
I have a work visa (not blue card) valid until 2027.
I have already sent an email to the LEA telling them I will become unemployed - no reply.
I'm supposed to switch to the job seeker visa.
What should I do? Is there a problem if I don't switch to the job seeker visa on time due to no appointments? and, considering my Aufenthaltstitel and green paper Zusatzblatt both say I'm legal until 2027, could there be any problem at border control?
I'm in a similar situation. I think that as long as you submit the forum in good time, you can tentatively assume that you will have 6 months from your first date of unemployment to find a new job. I would operate under this timeline.
I have a residence permit tied to my specific job valid until 2026. I became unemployed on September 1 and I registered as a job seeker via the online contact form about 2 months before my unemployment began. The LEA replied within a few weeks with the following reply (word for word):
***Sie haben ab dem Kündigungsdatum sechs Monate Zeit, einen neuen Arbeitsvertrag einzureichen (bis zum 29.02.2024). Während der Arbeitsplatzsuche ist eine Änderung der Aufenthaltserlaubnis nicht erforderlich.***
**(You have six months from the date of termination to submit a new employment contract (until February 29, 2024). It is not necessary to change your residence permit while you are looking for a job.)**
As you can see, I was not given any appointment, any new visa, or even told that I have switched visa types - I was just given this date. Do I have a job seeker's visa? Would you be given a job seekers visa? I don't know, but I think it makes a big difference because [job seeker's visas cannot be extended](https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324661/en/).
It's now Feb 13 I still haven't found a job, so I applied for a visa extension on the portal. But if I am indeed a job seeker, then I'm not sure If I am even eligible to extend my visa or safe to stay in the country after submitting the online application.
I'm planning on moving back to the USA, where I am from, but I am currently in the middle of an Agentur fur Arbeit sponsored German class that ends April 1 and I'd like to get my B1 certificate. I want to move back to Germany later in life and I am not sure if overstaying a job seeker's visa (if that's what I have) while I wait for a response will cause me problems coming back later...
I have also thought about flying to London on Feb 29 to re-enter Germany on a 90 day Schengen visa. That way, I'd still have a valid visa when I leave but would be able to stay here a bit longer. But I am not sure if leaving the Schengen area is necessary to change to a Schengen visa, or if I can continue to receive my ALG 1 and attend my German course once I come back.
It's all quite a lot to consider and I am not finding clear answers online.
If anyone has advice, it'd be greatly appreciated!
Hi Nico, this guide is so refreshing and assuring. I understand that this is valid for Berlin but would you also know more about other cities and their Ausländerbehörde processes? Any helpful links would help!
Is it possible to already use the money from a blocked account required for the residence permit for the purpose of studying before having an appointment at LEA?
My gf (from the US) is studying in Berlin since autumn. She has all her documents for the residence permit and submitted her application through the contact form in mid-November. She hasnt heard anything from them yet, and furthermore she is about to run out of money, so she needs to start to use the money from her blocked account.
Is it enough if LEA has the bank statement from November which states that she has/had the money or is it required to have the full required amount on the account for the appointment?
Has anyone *actually* gotten an appointment within 3 months of using the contact form? I get the feeling that the threat of legal action is not something berlin authorities take very seriously. I submitted my application 2 months ago and am now waiting nervously. I am in a tight spot because my visa is tied to my work contract which is expiring in a few weeks, but the Arbeitsamt will not give me unemployment benefits or a Bildungsgutschein until my visa situation is resolved. I am contemplating flying home instead to do the visa which is probably much quicker but will be very expensive...some assurance from successful applicants here would be helpful.
It's completely random and very department and permit-specific. For the Blue Card I've heard of people getting their appointment in 2 weeks.
Unfortunately, your situation is the same as many other people. Dysfunctional bureaucracy is forcing us out.
thanks Nico, do you know about waiting times for job seeker visas? I am now leaning towards flying home but would kick myself if I got an appointment the next day
Just want to update that I made an application via contact form on 4/12/23, got a response on 5/3/24 for an appointment on 26/3/24
So the 3 month waiting period is pretty accurate.
From what I hear getting appointments used to work but as of 3 months ago or so the system doesn't seem to issue appointments anymore, *even if* you do get to the next page. Both a friend and I have set up automated systems to source appointments over the last 3 months, but this is what you see when you get there:
[https://imgur.com/a/rSqACWG](https://imgur.com/a/rSqACWG)
basically you will be able to choose a date, usually it is the next day or the day itself, but you will never be able to choose a time. This has happened consistently over the last 3 months and I think the appointment system has just stopped working altogether. Maybe it is different for other types of visa but for the ones I am looking for (job seeker) it doesn't work.
I have a question regarding a Fiktionsbescheinigung. I’m a US citizen who applied for a first time resident permit online and then separately sent in a request for a Fiktionsbescheinigung including my travel plans and registered address information.
I got an email back about both-one with an appointment confirmation for my resident permit application for May and then one about the Fiktionsbescheinigung. They said they could “send” me a § 81. Abs. 3 which wouldn’t allow me to travel outside of Germany seeing as it’s my first time application. This I was aware of, but also read that because I’m from the States, I’m able to travel under § 41 AufenthV. My question is (because I’m past my 90 days at this point)…is that still the case without having a Fiktionsbescheinigung in hand? I haven’t gotten anything in the mail still and went early this morning (4am) to wait in line to get one at the Auslanderbehörder today and the guy at the window said I need an appointment for it. I asked if there were any for that day (the whole point of getting there early and wait in line) and he just said no. Should I have pushed more or is that the case?
I spent a lot of time asking the same questions to much smarter people. You see, I'm Canadian, my residence permit expired last month, and I'm a few thousand kilometres from Berlin.
My understanding is that the Fiktionsbescheinigung, as the name implies, is just a certificate of the Fiktionswirkung, which is the legal status you find yourself in. If you don't have the certificate, the legal status still applies to you; it's just harder to prove.
*However*, since you don't already have a residence permit, I don't remember how it works for you. Your best bet would be to [write to the Bundespolizei](https://www.bundespolizei.de/Web/DE/Service/Kontakt/05Frage-stellen/kontakt_node.html) before trying it. They answer quickly.
I am in a similar situation. I'm Canadian and I was planning to stay in Germany for 4 months for research. There's no way I will get a residence permit by the time I am going back to Canada. I just sent a message to the Bundespolizei asking what proof I need to leave after 4 months without being fined, and if it's possible to travel without a residence permit or Fiktionsbescheinigung as Canadian after the first 90 days are over. Will update when they respond!
Hey, did you know that the word queue is the only word in the English language that is still pronounced the same way when the last four letters are removed? Mind-blowing, right? So, what's your favorite wordplay?
Not all heroes wear capes, but this is Berlin and nobody would judge if you wore one. Invaluable information as always. Thanks a bunch Nico
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This time I had a *lot* of help from relocation experts. They are incredibly knowledgeable people and it would be impossible to do good work without them.
Thank you for writing this! Can you recommend one of these relocation experts? I'd like to speak to one of them about my process and get help. Feel free to PM me, or let me know if it's ok for me to PM you. Thanks again :) u/n1c0_ds
I work with Kathleen Parker at Red Tape Translation since 7 years. Elliot Hermann is also great. My go-to immigration lawyer is Fional Macdonald. It takes time to build trust with people so I make recommendations sparingly. However those people are tested and true.
Big ups for this guide. This has been my strategy more or less going from first to final appointment at the ABH. After many renewals and spouse visa stuff this approach works and is generally stress free. Also, please be responsible for knowing when your expiration dates are. Being proactive with renewals and applications is beneficial. I hear many cases where being proactive would have resolved the issue before escalation. Nice work.
It's really hard to be proactive when the other side is not reactive. Another problem is that they'll often say no things to save themselves work. You have to master the art of the 3-paragraph, legally-padded, slightly threatening "doch". I applied for a residence permit 9 weeks before mine expires, and I asked for a Fiktionsbescheinigung (with valid personal reasons). They answered 8 weeks before the expiration date, saying that they don't issue them until 6 weeks before the expiration date. My answer was basically "delaying this will not save you work, and I'll will be a pain in your ass if you don't give me the damn Fiktionsbescheinigung that I'm legally entitled to" ... ^(Mit freundlichen Grüßen)
>Fiktionsbescheinigung what is this? My permit is expiring in March and I'm trying my hardest right now
https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/fiktionsbescheinigung
danke!!!!
Someone buy a beer for this hero!!
Please no I'm trying to stay fit
Too late, I’m adding some sausages and cookies
Oh no, please, no expensive cheese either
I’m adding that and Apfelstrudel with ice cream on top
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I mention it in the guide, and more obviously in my (newly rewritten) residence permit guides. In my opinion it's totally worth it, and my experience with the lawyers I work with only reinforce that opinion. I think that it's because case workers know that messing with your lawyer will not save them time, and that processing your case will save them a lawsuit.
Can Rechtsschutzversicherung cover this?
It does not cover immigration, usually
Man, thank you so much. I've been reading your posts for several years now and really appreciate all your efforts.
Another point that I think might be useful for Blue card holders is that, after 1 year of employment one can change jobs without informing the LEA. Earlier this was possible(ie., without informing LEA) only after two years. Source: LEA website “Die Blaue Karte EU wird für die Aufnahme einer konkreten Beschäftigung ausgestellt. Nach einem Jahr Beschäftigung auf dieser Stelle ist jede Beschäftigung erlaubt, ohne dass die Ausländerbehörde informiert oder die Blaue Karte EU geändert werden muss.”
This changed in October :) Now you don't even need permission. See 18 Abs 4 AufenthG: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__18g.html I didn't have enough information at the time to mention it, but it's the next item on my agenda.
Do you know if this applies to people that already have a Blue Card? Or only to those that are newly issued after the law is in effect?
As far as I know, it applies to all Blue Cards. You should double-check with a lawyer though. Like I said in another comment, this is a fairly new thing, so we need a few months of data to see how the LEA interprets the law.
u/n1c0_ds so you mean if a person holding EU Blue Card for less than 6 months can easily switch employer without the Ausländerbehörde permission?
Legend.
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At this point it's your only option. All the cases were handed over to the new department, and they start in January. 2 years is optimistic.
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Can you tell me more? I don't have a PR, so I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
It gets automatically extended from the new date. https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/121874/
It's the Bürgeramt part that surprised me. No LEA, no fuss.
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Wow didn't know that they are issuing PR stickers again. Good to know
thank you for this tip!! currently no available appointments though but i'll keep trying.
Thanks for the info. My passport will expire next year and was wondering how to update my PR card / get a new one.
In my case a written letter solved the appointment issue. 🙈 So many mails and number of visits no response. Wrote a letter stating my current visa status to the employee working there. Got termin and visa is extended.
Nowadays it's better to just send all the documents. A lot of people did the same thing as you and never got a reply.
🙋🏻♀️ hi! my work visa expires in feb 2024, i have an unlimited contract with my employer. been trying for months with no luck getting an appt. i have all my documents ready so today i filled out a contact form explaining my situation and attaching as many of the docs as i could (there were 5 available attachment options). i said in my note that i had the rest of the docs ready. at this point do i just wait? am i okay to travel until my current visa expires? thanks vvvv much for your help!
This does not count as an application. You have to send *all* your documents, as if you were going to the LEA in person. Then you have the right to stay, but not the right to leave and re-enter. For that you'd need a Fiktionsbescheinigung. It gets a bit more complicated for people who can travel in Germany visa-free, but I don't have clear details about that.
how do i send all the documents if there’s only 5 options for attachments? should i put them all in one pdf? (sorry if this is a totally dumb question) and do i have the right to leave and re enter until my visa expires? thank you!
If you have too many documents, [merge them](https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/merge-pdf.html) or [make them smaller](https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/compress-pdf.html). I'm pressuring them to change that, but they're saying that the form was not designed for submitting applications (despite the lack of alternatives). Another option is to mail your documents
just want to say thank you so much for your help and advice! i sent all my documents merged together as a pdf and attached them to the contact form with my info and received a reply a week ago offering me an appointment. thank you, im very grateful and super relieved!!
righto, thank you so much! is it pointless to mail them and send them thru the contact form? this will be my third message thru the contact form (i used it to just send an inquiry about getting an appt last month before realizing i should send my docs too) or is that overkill?
>For example, Blue Card holders no longer need permission from the LEA to switch jobs Could you please elaborate/confirm this? Having a blue card with a Zusatzblatt that specifically ties the relationship for 2 years. The change makes it possible to sign new contracts without having explicit confirmation from LEA? What happens if the contract is signed (assuming that it meets the blue card conditions), and then they respond negatively?
18g Abs 4 AufenthG, which came in effect a few weeks ago.
I'm a bit confused, for people who will enter soon Germany with a 1-year national visa, there is no need anymore to get a residence permit until the visa expires? What other potential problems can it cause besides the ones mentioned (landlord and bank issues)?
That's correct. They started telling people to wait until their National Visa is about to expire, 12 months later. It makes it much harder to open a bank account or rent an apartment. Since you don't have an eID, you can't use certain digital government services. This includes registering your business, applying for Kindergeld, and a few other things. Now you need a residence permit to register your business and a business registration certificate to get your residence permit. I spend all day trying to solve these problems. The biggest issue is that there is no one to file a bug report to. It's broken and it stays broken.
I wouldn't need most of those, I'll be on student visa. Not being able to open a bank account in most banks and dealing with apartments is a pain. My primary concern is this - if I leave Germany during the 1 year for a short period (like a week), am I allowed to reenter again?
Honestly I didn't think of that. I don't know if the National Visa is multiple-entry, but I assume so. My guess is "yes", but I'll leave myself a note to check.
Check. Long time ago they were single entry only
Noted, I'll ask around and update the guide when I get an answer
Alright, thank you very much for your work! Would you include it in the guide if you find anything?
Yep. Guides get constant revisions. This is already on my to-do list.
Thank you Nico for this really valuable research! Things like these definitely help a lot of us and as someone already mentioned, you should wear a cape ⭐️ As someone who has a national work visa (no blue card), I'm about to change jobs and I'm really interested in this guide that you mention that is still unpublished: >The immigration reform makes job changes faster. For example, Blue Card holders no longer need permission from the LEA to switch jobs. They just need to tell the LEA, and the LEA has 30 days to object. There are similar exceptions for the work visa. It's in a different guide that I have not finished updating yet. I feel bad asking you for more since you already did a lot. But could I get a sneak peek? Or just validate that I only need to tell LEA and everything will be alright? 🙏
There's no sneak peak, just notes and screenshots from a relocation consultant group chat. Don't take it from me though. Just look at [§18g Abs. 4 AufenthG](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__18g.html). If I recall correctly I wanted to wait and see how the LEA would implement it before writing about it.
Actually, my residence mentions §19C Abs. 1 AufenthG ([image here](https://i.ibb.co/NVqVYJM/Screenshot-2023-12-12-at-16-30-10.png)). Which I guess is [this one](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__19c.html). So I'm not entirely sure which norm for changing job applies to me. Any idea?
You're a skilled IT professional, I imagine? As far as I know, there is no exception for you, so you need permission from the Ausländerbehörde, at least in your first 2 (?) years of employment.
Yep, I'm an IT professional, and I have been working for the same company since I arrived in Germany back in June 2021. So it's been 2 years and 6 months. I already received an offer from another company, so I will be writing to the LEA as soon as I have the new contract. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that they will allow the job change. If it helps you in any way, I'll reply here when I get any confirmation 🤞
It looks like you're able to switch without getting permission then. I'm sorry if I don't have a clear-cut answer. I honestly just don't remember. The sources in [this guide](https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/losing-your-job) should give you better answers.
Nico, you don't need to apologize. You are already doing a lot 🙌 According to that guide, I think I don't need permission. Of course I will still write to them and check that everything is in order. Crossing my fingers. Huge thanks ⭐️
Hi Nico. Small follow up comment. I wrote to the LEA ([contact form to B1/B2/B3](https://www.berlin.de/einwanderung/ueber-uns/kontakt/artikel.1394180.php)) to inform them about the job change. I don't remember the exact date that I submitted the info in the contact but it was around the dates in this thread (\~december 12th aprox). Then in January 11th I started my new job and today I received a letter from the LEA saying that I'm allowed to change jobs 🎉
Nice! That went well! Thanks for taking the time to update me. Since this is a public comment it might help other people too.
Thank you so much for this! It camled my nerves a bit. I'm a recent graduate and my student visa expired. I have sent my documents through the contact form to transfer my visa in the beginning of October, but I haven't recived a response still. A few weeks ago, I left the country for a vacation that was planned and played almost a year in advance. I had no idea i'll be in this situation and that I'll get this bad. But, fortunately, I'm from a country that has a free schengen movement for 90 days, so I hope I'll be okay when I return. It's so frustrating. I thought that I would at least have an appointment by this time :( but no response.....
Let me know how it goes. Confirmation from people (especially on a public website where I can quote them) is really useful for my work.
Hey u/n1c0_ds, so I just got back yesterday and they let me back in...Here's how it went. The guy at the passport control was relatively young and they were calling someone on the phone to ask them what do to about my situation... When they finished, they asked me "can you read this (pointing to a sentence from my printed application where it says that while my expired residence card is valid until I get a response I can only travel within the validity of my residence card). I explained that I did, and explained my situation, highlighting the fact that I couldn't get in touch with anyone at the immigration - that I tried but no answers. So they say "So, why don't you just go to the immigration office in person?" And, the way they said that was like I haven't really tried - like I haven't made an effort enough... It took me a few seconds to process that... I then tried to explain that that was impossible, that no one would let me at the immigration office without an appointment (it's appointment only) and that because of the backlog of applications that they're unreachable by phone or anything really. However, he wasn't having it and was making faces as if I was only making excuses, and that I haven't tried hard enough, and I should do something about my situation to get myself an extension asap (as if it was something easy and straightforward). So, I apologized and said, "I'll do everything I can." They let me go, and said that I have 90 days to fix this (because that's how much I can normally stay in Germany if I didn't have a visa or residence permit). Oho... so here we are.
> So they say "So, why don't you just go to the immigration office in person?" A lot of Germans are disconnected from the reality at the LEA. > and said that I have 90 days to fix this So after all the faffing around they did what everyone told me they're supposed to do! Are you from one of the [§41 AufenthV countries](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthv/__41.html)?
Will do.
Thanks a lot for putting this together! I have a question re Fiktionsbescheinigung: you mentioned to raise a fuss when they refuse to issue one. Can you elaborate on what kind of ‘fuss’ we can do here? I’ve been on this boat and when I phoned the bürgeramt where they were gonna issue my new residence permit card, they refused to issue a Fiktionsbescheinigung for me. I felt like I had no other choice after that, so I’d like to learn more on what I can do for future references. Thanks again!!
By raising a fuss I mean not accepting their refusal, and insisting that you are legally entitled to it. The general idea is that case workers try to save work wherever they can, and you have to communicate that 1) you need it 2) you demand it and 3) they create more work for themselves by refusing. This is a lot easier said than done, but it's roughly what relocation consultants and immigration lawyers told me.
I don't need the guide but sure as shit a lot of scared people out there do. Props to you! 🥇🏆
What would happen if they delete the contact form? Einschreiben?
Bricks
Does switching to digital processing mean that if I applied for a PR through the contact form I’ll need to reapply?
As far as I know, no. The PR application is not digital anyway.
Thank you for the answer!
Thank you so much for all these extremely detailed absolutely vital information. I hope what you touch turns to gold (a turkish expression for an immense thank you and wishing good fortune upon you)
Don't know if you are still responding to replies but would be really grateful if you do. 2 months ago I used the contact form to request for an appointment for residence permit extension (student visa). I only attached my residence permit card with the form but now I am seeing that it would've been better to attach all the required documents. So should I now send again another form with all the docs attached or the previous one which I sent is fine? My visa ended last week FYI. Thanks!
Send the full application. Anything else is pointless.
Thank you :)
I would like to add, that during October to November, I was able to get appointment for friends that had expired visas, by trying on Wednesdays, from 9am to 5pm. I don't know if this is still the case. About the Blue Card online, I did applied this way. And it took like 3 days to respond that i was missing some documents. After I sent the required, it took another week for they to set an appointment a month later, to give fingerprints and photos. Thanks for your unvaluable guide. Love the Termin tool for Anmeldung.
Wow, that's so fast!
Did you received a confirmation PDF after applying for the Blue Card Online? I did and I paid but did not get any PDF, I only have the receipt that I paid.
No. I did not receive any payment confirmation. I hoping they don’t ask me to pay another time. I will let you know.
* **National Visas** are now issued for 12 months, and the LEA refuses to convert them to residence permits until \~6 weeks before they expired. Recent immigrants will spend 12 months without a plastic residence card. This causes all sorts of problems since people without a residence permits are unpersons to landlords and banks. I am confused, I have D visa with a validity of 1 year and it has s supplement page that says Blue Karte. I don't know when I have to apply for the Blue Card residence permit. On [this article](https://www.berlin.de/einwanderung/en/entry/visa-extension/artikel.1048669.en.php#longer), it says: Was your national visa (D-Visa) issued for more than 90 days? Holders of this sort of long-term D-Visa are issued with a different residence title (residence permit, EU Blue Card) **six weeks before the visa expires at the earliest**. Also it says: With a valid national visa, you can travel to the following countries in the Schengen area for **up to 90 days within a period of 180 days** (after first entry) When can I apply for the residence permit ?
You said it yourself: 6 weeks before your Type D visa expires. It's a ridiculous rule that Berlin made, because its saves them work.
Does anyone know if this currently any better in other cities? München?
It's better in some ways, worse in others. Some Ausländerbehörden are complete shitshows by comparison.
There can be worse shitshows than what you described here? Wow.
Oh ya, *much* worse. Nürnberg and Leipzig, supposedly. At least Berlin can point to the 50% rise in number of cases since 2021, and brag about digitalising some of their processes in 2023.
Yeah just came back from the Leipzig office today and wished I read this guide first :/ Asked for a Fiktionsbescheinigung and got shown the door and now I’m stuck here for the holidays
You can fax the Leipzig ABH and they usually reply within like 5 days
I'd say "try again with a lawyer". Like I said, you are legally entitled to it. A relocation consultant told me that Berlin also refuses sometimes, and you have to be a little more insistent.
Leipzig really? The Leipzig ABH is much better in my regard. They reply to most contact forms within a week and if that fails, they reply to faxes within 5 days. When I needed a residence permit for my mom's visa application, they gave me an appointment in like 2 weeks.
Hello, I have an unrelated question. Do you know whether one needs to inform Agentur für Arbeit before traveling during Sperrzeit? [https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/unemployment-benefits](https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/unemployment-benefits)
Hi OP This is a great guide!! Thank you! I Have my citizenship application pending since Sept 2022 and it’s lost in the digitization hole. I am considering applying again with all the documents. However in the meantime, my passport pages are finished and I need to apply for a new passport and have my residence card updated. I am unable to find any appointments on the Bürger amt website or lea. The appointment link just says bad server gateway and doesn’t work I also wanted the official letter to invite my parents to Germany and keep looking for an appointment for this service and run into the same issue Is your recommendation to then use the contact form to ask for appointments for both? I need to travel to the UK for work in June and need to apply for a visa so I cannot keep waiting on the LEA to find the digital files hence applying for passport and the card asap
My passport with the residence permit stamped in was stolen (our only ID lol, so we’re permanently travelers unless we pay for the card and if one is lost then all forms of ID in both the home country and Germany are lost) My current stay expired in October and I’ve been writing them for a year and a half about extending. How tf do you get a Fiktionsbescheinigung ?? I can’t even get 1 single response from them. Who to insist to?
Also I’m a US citizen but as I don’t have the old passport or residence permit anymore would I really be able to come back into the country ? Do you write that because we have our 90 day visa free stay and the airline would just think it’s that? What about customs ?
Thanks for this! I’m still in the US and mulling over whether I should apply for my job seeking visa at the embassy and deal with the processing time of up to 3 months or go to Berlin on the 90-day tourist visa and apply there. I am moving in with my partner. I have everything I need in both cases. Is it better to apply in Berlin?
No! Apply directly in the US, and pay for the accelerated procedure (Beschleunigtes Verfahren). Don't waste money waiting for your RP while you burn money. This is the advice I give everywhere, backed by a few relocation consultants.
Thank you! Where can I find how much the accelerated procedure costs and how long that takes? They don’t mention an expedited option on the embassy website.
You can search the keywords I gave you or hire an immigration consultant. I have no more info about this topic.
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Answering my own question, I found the form which needs to filled. It is here - [https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/329328/](https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/329328/) (for skilled workers with academic qualifications). But they say there is no need for a filled application when applying for extension. Can someone, who has already done this, please confirm - if it is okay to omit the filled application form when contacting them through the contact form ?
Hello everyone, I work in Berlin with Blue Card since 2022 January (28 months). I applied for the permanent residence permit last week. My company decided to layoff 400 people but running voluntarily termination in exchange of severance package. I am considering to take that. Last working day will be 30th of June. How does it effect my visa status? (If Auslanderbehörde can give appointment in six weeks I would be permanent resident soon but I heard it takes up to 6 month. Is 6 months accurate right now?) What is the latest time to find a blue card eligible job without having a problem with visa? Can I get Arbeitslosengeld I after blocking period of 3 months? Would getting ALG I effect my permanent residence status later? Thanks in advance,
Hey there! If I'm Americian and applied via the contact form above \^ for the 'seeking appointment' visa type, will I be okay to stay in te country past by 90 days? Or better to leave before they're up and come back?
There is no "seeking appointment" visa type. I do not understand your question. However this is an old thread and I suggest following the instructions in the first paragraph.
thank you for taking the time to write this
Great stuff, Nico.
This needs to be pinned
>You might be able to travel, if you ask for a Fiktionsbescheinigung, or if you're from one of the lucky countries What do you mean by one of the lucky countries? Currently in a situation where my visa process is freshly underway but I have a flight out to visit family in the US for Christmas on Sunday. For clarity, I have a U.S. passport. I submitted my paperwork to my school where they have admins who handle the visa process here. The woman who passed along all my documents says they going to "try" to expedite my visa to be ready sometime this week, since she also passed along my flight details, but obviously, I have no faith in that.
The §41 AufenthV countries, and that includes the US. Basically, I'm in the same situation as you. A lawyer confirmed that the current policy is to let you back in, but that this could change at any time. Another expert essentially said "if you're not a resident you can still visit as a tourist, so I can't imagine it being an issue". This is a very rough summary of how I understood their messages, so take it with a grain of salt.
The problem with the “tourist” thing is that for me, my Schengen visa expired a week ago :( that’s why I’m panicking a little
If you're American you should not have a Schengen visa. Do you have a sticker in your passport with a big "C" on it? Frankly it might be worth asking a lawyer. I assumed that you had a residence permit already. If you applied for your first residence permit it's a lot trickier.
Lots of respect for putting this together! You’re helping loads of people with this!
Wow...crazy. So I guess I must remember fondly immigration services in West Berlin in 1980s before I finally immigrated to US. There were not so many issues as you see now. I guess, Germany back then was a different country, West Germany, a well oiled machine.
Try convincing Asian immigration officers that the flimsy green paper called Fiktionsbescheinigung is an actual visa.
Why would it be a problem? Do they check the visas of people leaving the country? When I fly back to Germany nobody checks my residence permit until I reach the EU border.
>Do they check the visas of people leaving the country? YES! Of course!. What do you think? People from Africa/Asia can just book tickets to EU/USA and board a flight?
In my experience the people that check work on behalf of the Schengen area and know what they're doing, so they hopefully would recognise a valid Fiktionsbescheinigung.
In India, they do.
I'd never considered that issue. So if you had a valid Fiktionsbescheinigung, they could still refuse to let you fly from India to Germany?
>level 3Thirstin\_Hurston · 22 days agoFiktionsbescheinigungwhat is this? My permit is expiring in March and I'm trying my hardest right now If you have a valid Fiktionsbescheinigung, India will let you fly back to Germany. I encountered no issues during my travel with an expired blue card but don't forget to carry your expired ID card along with the valid Fiktionsbescheinigung and you should be fine :)
Nico, I cannot thank you enough. I am a mess since a few months because of the uncertainty in my PR and residence permit. This finally calmed me down!
I'm glad to hear it! The guide is working as it should then :)
Maybe my experience can help someone- if you meet the criteria of earning more than the upper limit for the Blue Card, you can send an email to B1/B2/B3 LEA department with your documents. If I understand correctly, and it is quite possible I am not, this department usually deals with highly-qualified applicants who were initially sponsored by some relocation agency- however, that doesn’t mean one cannot contact them directly without a 3rd party. Anyway, my application for a permanent residence was processed in less than 1 month that way. That was in summer this year. But please, I am not qualified enough to share more insights. There are definitely some things that are not clear, and not mentioned anywhere, and it can go faster- maybe worth a try for some people (as said, mostly highly qualified with a blue card). Hope it helps and sorry if I am wrong in any way- please check yourself beforehand!
You must be thinking about BIS (Business Immigration System) it's a *free* service that helps employers get their employees into the country. They don't necessarily work faster, but they work a lot smoother than the other departments. Also the new online Blue Card application process is allegedly very fast. A few relocation consultants in the group chat shared success stories this month.
Ah, yes, thank you. I did manage to reach them using b123 email in the summer and the process was really smooth (permanent residency)- no relocation agencies involved. They were really polite and nice, too. Since that email is no longer functional, I guess that way is now obsolete and contact form is the way to go :/
Correct
This B1/B2/B3 email seems to no longer exist. I tried using it about a month ago, and my email was bounced back. People now have to submit the documents via the contact form on the site.
Which email did you use? 3-4 years ago it was, for example, b1@lea was alive, now it is indeed not. For me that bounced back- but b123, if I remember correctly- worked. I’ll check later when I have better access to my computer.
I tried b1b2@lea and b1b2b3@lea and they both bounced back.
Can you post these information also on the Facebook group’s International Friends Berlin und International Families Berlin , there are always a lot of lots of questions about this subject and i guess some of them probably don’t use Reddit !
It's a lot of work to be active in multiple places. Feel free to post a link to the original guide (as this summary will not be updated).
Then i will ! Thanks
Thanks for your great work. How do we inform the LEA about the job change?
Use the contact form. Use my [template generator](https://allaboutberlin.com/docs/auslanderbehorde-job-change) to write the message. I'm rewriting this part of the website next, so some of the details about LEA + job change are slightly wrong.
u/n1c0_ds The guide mentions only 5 files to upload. Actually, if you read a tiny subscript underneath the upload UI they allow to upload 7-zip files - its a popular free utility [https://www.7-zip.org/](https://www.7-zip.org/) That means one can upload their whole application.
The form allows it. I don't know if the LEA actually allows it. The form maker is built by the central Basisdienst, and the LEA used that tool to create this specific form. I don't know if allowing 7zip is a conscious decision from the LEA, or something they have no control over (like the 16 MB upload limit) I'll ask
The last two things-digitalisation and appointment system, do they happen only in Berlin, or the whole country?
Only in Berlin. Some other locations are already digitial. Some are still in the stone age.
Thankyou so much , this looks well articulated & detailed ! So you have any idea about PR Situation, I am hearing its going from 3 months to 1 year now. Is it same as resident permit, are they only prioritising whose permits are about to expire ? Any suggestion on that is appreciated
Ask me in 3 months! I applied on December 1.
Did you able to get it through?
I have an appointment at the end of July, and after asking repeatedly, a Fiktionsbescheinigung while I wait.
I applied in oct so waiting too! Good luck !
Blue Card applications are now digital, and it's a massive improvement. This is interesting, is it already live and only in Berlin? I used to stay in Berlin, now not anymore. I wonder if this will be Bundesweit. Do you have the link to this online application?
Only in Berlin. Each Ausländerbehörde does things its own way. Their methods and policies are very different.
This is a great guide, thanks for writing this. It's just a damn shame that it's so necessary. I thought things were bad when I arrived almost 8 years ago and needed to stand in a line at 3am, twice (first time got rejected, was immediately given a Fiktionsbescheinigung though), but at least I was able to get those done same-day. When I upgraded from my Niederlassungserlaubnis to my Daueraufenthalt EU a year ago, the process took almost 2 years start-to-finish. I just hope the digitized citizenship process takes less time than it takes for an anti-immigrant party to come into power and mess up processing even more somehow. I've recently had a few high-earning friends move away after recently arriving because the idea of having to stop working for X months before they could get their first visa was unacceptable. Germany desperately needs skilled workers to prop up the failing Rentenversicherung with their high taxes.
Doing god's work, without asking for a penny! Take a bow!
Incredible work. Thank you very much! >The immigration reform makes job changes faster. For example, Blue Card holders no longer need permission from the LEA to switch jobs. They just need to tell the LEA, and the LEA has 30 days to object. Could you tell us more what is considered "Telling the LEA"? Would an email or a regular mail suffice? Again, thank you very much!
Use the contact form
So glad I dropped my German dream and moved to Switzerland instead
Hi Community, I am in the process of applying for the PR as I've been holding a blue card for 24 months now (under B1 language skills). Could someone tell me based on your experience does the PR application also takes months to get an appointment? It I be better off hiring an immigration lawyer since I want it as soon as possible?
I applied through the forms. It seems to take 3-9 months (probably depending on your department), but since you're not in a hurry with your Blue Card valid for 2 more years, it's not a big deal.
Thanks u/n1c0_ds, i am in a hurry to apply for the PR for personal reasons even though as you mentioned I have two more years on it. I guess in that case the best approach would be to go though a lawyer since by default I would have lower priority since I have time.
I guess it would help. Try Fiona Macdonald. She's my go-to immigration lawyer.
Did you able to sort it out somehow, and could you share more of your experiences please?
Yes. I applied from E4 which corresponds to my country via the contact form which is the only accepted way right now. Send the application in December 2023, and got a response last week of February (after 2 months of inactivity) requesting for B1 certificate. I did not have a B1 but have an A1 certificate, however I had a letter from my language school that I completed classes upto B1. I send them and the a1 certificate. Luckily for me, the law was changed where waiting times are now shortened to 27 months making me eligible for a PR under A1 by end of March. LEA responded last week of April once again giving me an appointment in July (three months away). So total time to get an appointment was 4 months. Could have been shorted it I already had the B1 certificate and attached it with the original application
You are the best. thanks so much for this.
If my request for residence permit gets rejected, how long can I stay after?
They usually give you a Fiktionsbescheinigung to get what's missing. Otherwise, I don't know.
Very valuable information. Out of curiosity I was browsing the immigration process from a local perspective. Wtf. It takes ages to get through all these junctions of what if else if clauses. So much information, yet it sometimes ends up in roundtrips from websites redirecting to each other. You need to go that route to figure out how everything works. It all starts with handing in double printed copy of the application itself personally. Like, what the hell...
Tell me about it. The worst part is that the official information is incomplete, misleading or simply wrong. People chase documents that are impossible to get, and simply unneeded. Then they show up and the case worker is offended that they don't have a document they never asked for. I just spent a month rewriting my freelance visa, work visa and Blue Card guides, because the information on Berlin.de is useless.
There is usually no "Service based institutions" in Germany. They don't even know what is service.
Huge thanks for this !!! I just submitted my application for the extension of my student residency permit . I also work as a working student, my contract for this ends just a week before my residency permit expires. With this can I extend my contract before getting my new residency permit?
That's up to your employer, but legally you're still allowed to work
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https://www.berlin.de/einwanderung/ueber-uns/kontakt/ It's still there. I keep an updated redirect at https://allaboutberlin.com/out/auslanderbehorde-contact
Ok, probably I'm not able to find it but in that contact form link you shared, none of the links have Niederlassungserlaubnis as a section to select. If I remember correctly, they used to have it under B1 B2 B3.
I'd file it under "Aufenthaltserlaubnis". Don't worry too much if it's in the wrong category. Our bureaucracy is fucked, but it's flexible.
Hi, thank you so much for the detailed guide!! I know it's been a while since you posted, but I hope you don't mind answering a question specific to my case: I will be finishing my university study by the end of Jan, and as far as I know, my student visa will not be valid as soon as I de-registered from uni, which will be by the end of this semester (31 March). I got a job offer in the office where I now work part time, starting 1st of April, and I am planning to get the 18-month job-seeking visa for graduates. I have not been able to find an appointment so far, and I would imagine the earliest I can send my application via the contact form is in Feb when I receive my graduation certificate. Do you think I should wait to at least get a confirmation from LEA before starting to work? Or will I still be able to take the work for some months while waiting for the reply (as students are allowed to work 120 full days per year). Thanks again :)
I'm not too familiar with the student visa, so I would prefer not to give a specific answer. Your university might have more knowledgeable people and communities who can help you, since a lot of people must deal with the same problem.
thank you so much for this information! you're a star. if you or anyone would have a clue about my situation I'd appreciate the help so much! I'm becoming unemployed in Feb 1st, after working in a company for 30 months. I have a work visa (not blue card) valid until 2027. I have already sent an email to the LEA telling them I will become unemployed - no reply. I'm supposed to switch to the job seeker visa. What should I do? Is there a problem if I don't switch to the job seeker visa on time due to no appointments? and, considering my Aufenthaltstitel and green paper Zusatzblatt both say I'm legal until 2027, could there be any problem at border control?
I'm in a similar situation. I think that as long as you submit the forum in good time, you can tentatively assume that you will have 6 months from your first date of unemployment to find a new job. I would operate under this timeline. I have a residence permit tied to my specific job valid until 2026. I became unemployed on September 1 and I registered as a job seeker via the online contact form about 2 months before my unemployment began. The LEA replied within a few weeks with the following reply (word for word): ***Sie haben ab dem Kündigungsdatum sechs Monate Zeit, einen neuen Arbeitsvertrag einzureichen (bis zum 29.02.2024). Während der Arbeitsplatzsuche ist eine Änderung der Aufenthaltserlaubnis nicht erforderlich.*** **(You have six months from the date of termination to submit a new employment contract (until February 29, 2024). It is not necessary to change your residence permit while you are looking for a job.)** As you can see, I was not given any appointment, any new visa, or even told that I have switched visa types - I was just given this date. Do I have a job seeker's visa? Would you be given a job seekers visa? I don't know, but I think it makes a big difference because [job seeker's visas cannot be extended](https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324661/en/). It's now Feb 13 I still haven't found a job, so I applied for a visa extension on the portal. But if I am indeed a job seeker, then I'm not sure If I am even eligible to extend my visa or safe to stay in the country after submitting the online application. I'm planning on moving back to the USA, where I am from, but I am currently in the middle of an Agentur fur Arbeit sponsored German class that ends April 1 and I'd like to get my B1 certificate. I want to move back to Germany later in life and I am not sure if overstaying a job seeker's visa (if that's what I have) while I wait for a response will cause me problems coming back later... I have also thought about flying to London on Feb 29 to re-enter Germany on a 90 day Schengen visa. That way, I'd still have a valid visa when I leave but would be able to stay here a bit longer. But I am not sure if leaving the Schengen area is necessary to change to a Schengen visa, or if I can continue to receive my ALG 1 and attend my German course once I come back. It's all quite a lot to consider and I am not finding clear answers online. If anyone has advice, it'd be greatly appreciated!
Hi Nico, this guide is so refreshing and assuring. I understand that this is valid for Berlin but would you also know more about other cities and their Ausländerbehörde processes? Any helpful links would help!
I don't. It's so location-dependent that I can't possibly keep track of it. A local relocation consultant will know the Ausländerbehörde really well.
Thanks for doing this anyways - very insightful and helpful even if I am in a different city.
Is it possible to already use the money from a blocked account required for the residence permit for the purpose of studying before having an appointment at LEA? My gf (from the US) is studying in Berlin since autumn. She has all her documents for the residence permit and submitted her application through the contact form in mid-November. She hasnt heard anything from them yet, and furthermore she is about to run out of money, so she needs to start to use the money from her blocked account. Is it enough if LEA has the bank statement from November which states that she has/had the money or is it required to have the full required amount on the account for the appointment?
I don't know
We're gonna try asking LEA through the contact form while putting an emphasis on the urgency of the residence permit and hoping they'll answer.
That would be my approach too. Sometimes they're fast.
Has anyone *actually* gotten an appointment within 3 months of using the contact form? I get the feeling that the threat of legal action is not something berlin authorities take very seriously. I submitted my application 2 months ago and am now waiting nervously. I am in a tight spot because my visa is tied to my work contract which is expiring in a few weeks, but the Arbeitsamt will not give me unemployment benefits or a Bildungsgutschein until my visa situation is resolved. I am contemplating flying home instead to do the visa which is probably much quicker but will be very expensive...some assurance from successful applicants here would be helpful.
It's completely random and very department and permit-specific. For the Blue Card I've heard of people getting their appointment in 2 weeks. Unfortunately, your situation is the same as many other people. Dysfunctional bureaucracy is forcing us out.
thanks Nico, do you know about waiting times for job seeker visas? I am now leaning towards flying home but would kick myself if I got an appointment the next day
I don't know, unfortunately. It varies so much
Just want to update that I made an application via contact form on 4/12/23, got a response on 5/3/24 for an appointment on 26/3/24 So the 3 month waiting period is pretty accurate.
From what I hear getting appointments used to work but as of 3 months ago or so the system doesn't seem to issue appointments anymore, *even if* you do get to the next page. Both a friend and I have set up automated systems to source appointments over the last 3 months, but this is what you see when you get there: [https://imgur.com/a/rSqACWG](https://imgur.com/a/rSqACWG) basically you will be able to choose a date, usually it is the next day or the day itself, but you will never be able to choose a time. This has happened consistently over the last 3 months and I think the appointment system has just stopped working altogether. Maybe it is different for other types of visa but for the ones I am looking for (job seeker) it doesn't work.
It still issues appointments. I found one manually in December using a simple tea timer.
I have a question regarding a Fiktionsbescheinigung. I’m a US citizen who applied for a first time resident permit online and then separately sent in a request for a Fiktionsbescheinigung including my travel plans and registered address information. I got an email back about both-one with an appointment confirmation for my resident permit application for May and then one about the Fiktionsbescheinigung. They said they could “send” me a § 81. Abs. 3 which wouldn’t allow me to travel outside of Germany seeing as it’s my first time application. This I was aware of, but also read that because I’m from the States, I’m able to travel under § 41 AufenthV. My question is (because I’m past my 90 days at this point)…is that still the case without having a Fiktionsbescheinigung in hand? I haven’t gotten anything in the mail still and went early this morning (4am) to wait in line to get one at the Auslanderbehörder today and the guy at the window said I need an appointment for it. I asked if there were any for that day (the whole point of getting there early and wait in line) and he just said no. Should I have pushed more or is that the case?
I spent a lot of time asking the same questions to much smarter people. You see, I'm Canadian, my residence permit expired last month, and I'm a few thousand kilometres from Berlin. My understanding is that the Fiktionsbescheinigung, as the name implies, is just a certificate of the Fiktionswirkung, which is the legal status you find yourself in. If you don't have the certificate, the legal status still applies to you; it's just harder to prove. *However*, since you don't already have a residence permit, I don't remember how it works for you. Your best bet would be to [write to the Bundespolizei](https://www.bundespolizei.de/Web/DE/Service/Kontakt/05Frage-stellen/kontakt_node.html) before trying it. They answer quickly.
I am in a similar situation. I'm Canadian and I was planning to stay in Germany for 4 months for research. There's no way I will get a residence permit by the time I am going back to Canada. I just sent a message to the Bundespolizei asking what proof I need to leave after 4 months without being fined, and if it's possible to travel without a residence permit or Fiktionsbescheinigung as Canadian after the first 90 days are over. Will update when they respond!
We need a sponsor system like in the US. That way we make it easy for people who contribute to be in Germany and hard for people who do not.
As a self-employed person this narrow definition of "contribute" cracks me up.
Hey, did you know that the word queue is the only word in the English language that is still pronounced the same way when the last four letters are removed? Mind-blowing, right? So, what's your favorite wordplay?
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Yes, what we need is a 5th Berlin subreddit