I'm half German half English. In Germany I'm mostly looked at as a Brit and in Britain I'm mostly looked at as a German. It can be hard not being accepted by either group fully, even though I consider myself to be from both groups.
But what I learned is to judge the individual not the whole people. There will always be some that will see you as a German if you grew up and were born here, and there will always be some that consider you to be from the nation you are descended from. Sadly it seems the latter is true more often. But either way I always give people a chance to show me which person they are, but when they do I follow Maya Angelou's advice. "when someone shows you their true self, believe them the first time"
I'm the same - half brit, half german, born in the eighties, raised in Germany (learned German with my mother by watching Sesame Street together).
Never been quite German (Christmas on the 25th instead of the 24th, Narnia instead of Grimm's, etc.), but also barely British, as I've never lived there and thus am missing many experiences.
I've experienced people being interested in my alternative viewpoints and welcoming towards my short-comings, but I've also had Nazis gang up on me.
Not knowing if I was Arthur-or-Martha, I personally settled on being 'European' (which is made easier by having family not only the UK and Germany, but also France, Italy and Poland).
First group: They had heared, that 'I wasn't German' and crashed my eighteenth birthday party, demanding beers as payment to 'let me use their facilities' (we had rented the local clubhouse - tiny village with a population of only 2.000). It ended in a good fight.
Second group: They were drunkenly proudly making racist comments - I (drunkenly) proudly stood up to them...and had to be dragged away into safety from what I thought could be a good fight by my friends, after the first punches were exchanged. They were double in numbers, age and weight to us at the time.
Both occasions happend around 2010ish in Bavarian villages.
Being caucasian and speaking without an accent, I've barely had to put up with any comments and have had no major troubles other than the two above.
My mother, who came to Germany in the eighties and has never been able to shake off the accent, has had to put up with racism in many forms...
...same as my ex-girlfriend, who was adopted from Africa to grow up in Germany at the age of one. She deflates evertime someone asks her 'where she's really from... originally'.
On the whole though, I think Germany is doing alright. And the country has become more welcoming.
Even the NeoNazis I used to know personally and the AFD voters I know today are usually very friendly to any foreigners they know personally - it's harder to hate against someone, when they're shaking your hand.
The NeoNazis I knew used to come from broken homes and simply needed something to direct their anger against (no excuse, just an explanation. I did my best in helping them set their stuff right).
The AFD voters today are mainly (understandably) disappointed by the established parties and politicians nowadays. I disagree with them and try to discuss politics with them in hopes of changing their views... But I doubt it'll be enough.
Fighting for a better world for all is a never ending story.
Fight with love, not your fists (I learned that one). But fight with determination.
aight i assumed you was born in germany and therefore had no dialect my bad. but still you dodge a lot of every day racism just by looking white thats a fact.
I didn't say it wasn't. I understand that racism exists here in Germany. But I never brought race into this. I was just sharing my experience and how I deal with the lack of acceptance I personally experienced.
I was born in Germany as an Australian, speaking German since kindergarten... still get called out as being not German when I speak. Somehow there will always be a dialect, and there will be questions about where I'm from.
In the UK acceptance is largely on sounding native. You can be brown but if you sound like you're from Manchester or Birmingham or whatever then all is good. If you have a German accent, well....
I grew up in Germany my father was 100% German and many will never accept me as German because of my skin colour. It can go both directions. It's not just right wingers hoping that all brown people leave the country.
Some spiritual India fans tried to talk me into accepting my true self practice yoga, ayurveda, pick an Indian sounding name etc.
OK good part of the esoteric crowd might be open to right wing concepts without being aware of it
Lol No. Old habits die hard. Also it’s wierd that people don’t understand things like race, colour, nationality are accidents of birth. No one chooses them at birth. It’s absurd that people form a personality based on these accidents.
I always get shit because of my last name even though my family is for 5 generations living in Germany. (one side is German)
My wife speaks fluent German but is from Russia and gets constantly asked about the war in ways that are extremely rude.
It’s gonna suck because now I won’t be able to say “at least we still have the Supreme Court” nor “the people might have voted for him once but there’s no way they’d do it again even if I may have said they’d never do it in the first place”
Contrastly living and working in Germany when Obama was president was amazing. I reveled in so much undeserved praise so I guess this would just balance all that out lol
Well, imperialism sucks, I think it's okay to keep that normalized. But i wouldn't shame individuals for that necessarily – unless they are also into stupid U.S.A. ideologies…
friends do, but older ppl and like in professional contexts im the foreigner. idk much abt that tho. i try to lie, tell them i started learning german last year.
A second mother tongue and upbringing is an incredible gift!
I remember to have hated it while I was a child, growing up in the 90ies, bc in my class and school I just wanted to be like everybody else.
It took me a while to overcome this unnecessary shame and finally feel proud about it!
I don't want to deny racism and bad remarks, children overhear and feel a lot, that brings along a certain sensitivity that nobody else will be able to understand.
Maybe we don't entirely belong anywhere, bc we experienced more, but I don't think that the urbanized world nowadays works on absolute terms such as being a "whole german".
Later on in my adult life this question stopped to cross my mind. I don't think it belongs to us and I also don't think that anyone who grew up in the german speaking world should question their belonging. We are, but we're not, but we are!
I am and it differs. From time to time I do strongly feel German. Especially some characteristics such as being on time and precise I do have. I also visit from time to time the “Motherland” and feel a strong belonging as well.
It’s weird. Like really. However, I believe it took me some 30 years to realize that I don’t have 2 but 0 “homelands”.
To come back to your question, Even if people around you might accept you as German, The majority never will.
as a gen z west german i can tell you that in my generation we do not give a single fuck about someone coming from east germany we don't remember that shit and we don't care about it.
I can't confirm that. I, a West German, work in an office in Berlin with an East German, just him and me. I have no prejudices and neither does he, we get along great and there is no "better German". But I have met many East Germans who like to see themselves in the victim role, which I think is completely unnecessary these days.
To your question OP, no, you will never be fully accepted as a German in Germany unless both parents are completely German.
That's not completely true, there are many countries of origin for which this (both parents having to be completely German) isn't the case.
My father, for instance, was born in Helsinki and I've never gotten any flak for that. Sure, my last name was made fun of a bit in elementary school but that was very much the case for the unusual or funny sounding German surnames as well.
I can also confirm what the other commentor said about the east/west divide not existing that much in the minds of the younger generations. I, for instance, wouldn't be able to tell you whether any of my classmates' (or current work collegues') families came from the east or from the west.
The fact itself that there were two German states just a few years before our birth wasn't real at all for us, just a purely academic piece of knowledge.
totally not true. there are many people with one parent not coming from germany and beeing accepted in society including myself.
i don't want to downplay every day racism it's huge problem but saying no one would ever be accepted is simply not true.
That is exactly what happened. OP asked for experience, most foreigners confirm Germans will not accept you unless you are ethnically German, and promptly someone comes and tells the victims of racism how there is none.
That’s what I like about racism elsewhere, people at least don’t act like they are not racist
It was neither said that they were lying or that their experiences were untrue as you stated. That is simply not the case, I don't know what to tell you there.
The only thing that was said is that you can be accepted as German by other Germans, that's all. This neither states nor implies either of the two things (lying and untrue experiences) that you stated. What you say is simply untrue.
You must realize that disagreeing with one's conclusion is different from saying that the experiences that lead someone to that conclusion are untrue/ invalid/ lied about.
Do you seriously not see the difference or are you in fact arguing in bad faith?
[Replying here as you have deleted your child comment stating "Are you stupid?". Kind of a dick move, btw. Stand by your statements, even if you do rescind them at a later time!]
I didn’t delete anything, you came here clamming something that is not true.
This is not about disagreeing. You are a perpetrator of racism and scold people that are victims of racism that talk about it.
If someone says people are racist toward them and you say that’s not true you are simply a piece of shit. It’s that easy. People like you are the issue. And ofc you are stupid. Even too stupid to read. Not surprising for a racist
1.What you claim to have been said was not in fact said. Please read my comment before responding to it.
2. You are mixing me up with the other commentor whom you are accusing of having said stuff he didn't say.
3. Ah, I see. Your comment was removed by a moderator. Feels good.
Half Korean here, born in Germany, don't speak Korean, am a total alman, have a super German name. Of course they do. Statistically I count as having Migrationshintergrund, but it doesn't feel this way. My sister, who is much more Asian-presenting, doesn't feel as German as me, and has reported having been on the receiving end of racism – which is truly hard to believe for me because it has never happened to me outside of the schoolyard, but of course I do believe her.
People usually do think I have something vaguely foreign in me from the way I look. Maybe Turkish, or something other undefinably oriental. I don't think I've ever been treated any worse because of it.
I'm German German but my last name isn't. I never really consciously noticed anything about it for the longest time but having worked at a very German company, I started to see some people don't see me fully as German. I didn't see any need to clarify this for such people, on the contrary but still very weird and annoying. I think there's some prejudice to see me as lazy (fwiw I've been quite a workaholic when I studied and on my first couple of jobs)
It depends. I find that when I come across extremists on the left or the right, they are incredibly bigoted and racist. But the general population in the centre don’t treat me any differently as they would treat any other German they meet on the street. Even when they realise I struggle with the language.
My friends aren’t. And they also love telling the Germans who ask them where they are from “”””originally”””” that they’re German - and playing stupid like they don’t get the question haha
Yes, and it's because I'm white American. Sorry, but it's true. I've only been here for eight years, speak passable but very accented C1 German, still behave and appear quite American and have only American qualifications. Nope, I'm more or less "in". People are very surprised that I can't vote on Sunday in the European elections, and I'm very regularly complained to about the Ausländer. I watch POC peers with obviously native German get the classic "Wo kommst du eigentlich her?" or hear people described as Turkish or African when they're second or third generation Germans who've hardly left the country in their lives. It's a question of skin color, not language or actual Herkunft.
US is a melting pot. Europe isn't. If you're foreign it's pretty obvious regardless of skin colour. Integrate, and only racists will have problems, but you'll never be of this place. Im jn the same boat :)
I think that's super naive. You guys had segregation. Europe didn't. Until when were blacks second class citizens again?
If America had an indigenous grouping that made a majority or close to, then maybe we could have this chat. But what happened to them again? ;)
Tbf, if you go by numbers that'd be mostly smallpox via the Columbian Exchange. Iirc that killed about 90% of the indigenous population during the first 2-3 decades after Europeans arrived on the Continent.
I see and agree with your point though, just thought I'd add this less than relevant piece of info.
Imho it’s a language thing. If you sound like a German that shows you grew up German it doesn’t matter if you are black or Asian. I have met people with German names and foreign faces. But even the name is secondary. It’s the language. If you speak with an accent it shows. I would say skin color comes after and the name in third position.
I agree - if you grew up here or came here young enough that you can speak German natively, it's the primary indicator for me. But unfortunately very many people disagree and prioritize appearance.
If you define immigration background as being born abroad I am the wrong person to answer. If you mean that family wise there is one - yes. Most of my classmates also had at least one foreign parent I would say that the majority were seen as Germans by society. Maybe not a random old person that has weird views on this stuff. But the rest - sure. Especially if you don’t look fully foreign but are of a mixed ethnicity or European, the vast majority of people will see you as German here in Berlin.
In my experience reasons for not being perceived as German are usually a noticeable accent or holding on strongly to the foreign cultural background. The more you identify as German yourself, the more people will perceive you as that on average.
For example: like I mentioned my school was super mixed and we had kids who didn’t look stereotypical German but dressed, spoke and behaved all like the Germans. And their German friends didn’t see them as Azerbaijani, Tamil, Chinese, Italian, Hungarian, etc but as German (with an additional background). But we had this one Polish girl who was just half Polish technically and born and raised in Berlin but she was like a walking ad for Poland and always spoke of herself as Polish, never as German. Which lead to her being perceived as Polish rather than German, despite probably looking a lot more stereotypical German compared to others. Of course this isn’t representative of first impression of a stranger on the street but more if the person in question was someone you interacted with regularly like a classmate, colleague, etc.
If you’re just talking about how people will perceive you on the street, looking European and not speaking a foreign language will make people assume you’re German. Looking foreign probably leads to people assume you’re foreign.
Only read your first paragraph but I agree. In Berlin I also feel accepted in German society (Half German/Mexican from US). In other places, not so much.
Just curious, how do you think strangers perceive you? I’m wondering because my background is not too dissimilar from yours and I’ve had some strange or hostile situations because of someone mistaking me for someone else; they almost always mention Turk or Arab in accusatory ways.
To be honest I rly don’t give it too much thought, if people see me to be German, that’s cool, if not, that’s cool also. Never any hostility based upon my appearance though.
My moms was born in Tunisia, she gets accepted as German, especially because she took my dads German name.
Myself, I read as German, so it’s not even a question, but I’m still a little insulted that my government considers me to have an „immigration background“. In my view, I don’t and I’m put off by people who’s grandparents came here presenting themselves as anything but German first.
I have an arabic immigrant background, but i grew up with my german mother so i just have the looks no behaviour (islam etc.). I am very well accepted by Germans. Have alot of German friends, invited to everything, we never talk about my heritage
I am not ashamed either. Just wanted to mention that German accepd me and and almost never get asked where are you ariginally from. If someone does I am happy to tell about my Arabic Background
Depends how dark your skin is...got african roots in 3. Generation...I got a more lighter skin tone...germans treat me like one of them - wouldn't classify me as something other than german or at least european.
..my Brother however got a clearly darker skin tone and he was experiencing racism a lot in a suburb of Berlin when we were going to school.
We have the same mum and dad. So it was just gambling how dark our skin will become in terms of genetics 🤷🏽♂️
Many germans are afraid of the black man it seems. But most are not! My Brothers experiences got better the older he became
Many Germans have an ethno-cultural concept, of what it means to be German. It means you can be a German, but you can never become a German. This option doesnt exist in their heads. If you dont look like what a German has to look like in their heads, you will never be a German to them.
It depends on what you mean by becoming German... Ethnically? Probably quite hard as changing DNA is not a thing so far. Demeanor? Oh yes, and it can be quite funny Citizenship? Quite possible. But most people wouldn't call themselves German even if they are on paper. They don't want to identify with its history and the consequences. So I guess it's a give and take in this case.
In America and Brazil the concepts are different. France? Not sure if they see it like that. In Germany lots of people from different backgrounds will tell you they don't feel German even if they were born here and don't have any other passports. So the concept here rather depends on who you are asking while in Brazil it's clear to everyone that everyone with a longer family tie is Brazilian.
You can actually tease people by calling them German just simply based on their citizenship.
No, centuries of ethnic superiority, colonialism, imperialism and militarism have shaped society in a way that can’t be deleted suddenly just because a war was lost
This idea of German identity is actually heavily shaped by the ideology the Nazis based their beliefs on. The first mention of the term "deutsch/theodisk" actually is from the 8th century and refers to everyone speaking a Germanic language and not looking a certain way. That whole racial shit was introduced way later by racists.
Prussia introduced militarism to Germany. The Fascist ideology was introduced through Catholicism. Never forget, Munich was the capital of the movement. Nazis originally hated Berlin, for its cosmopolitanism. (And Frederick the Great said this; All religions are just as good as each other, so long as the people who practise them are honest, and even if the Turks and heathens came and wanted to populate this country, then we would build mosques and temples for them.)
Yes to the centuries of brainwashing but actually attitudinal shifts at a population level can happen very quickly if planned/financed well. It's just that the super rich prefer us to remain divided.
I have a Jamaican dad and German mum, born in Germany, schooled in Kingston and Berlin. Jamaica is very accepting because of their history with slavery and have the beautiful motto "Out of many, one people". In Berlin people mostly assume I'm not German because of my skin colour.
Most people keep to themselves, but I regularly hear Germans saying racist shit to me/or at me to the point Ive given up trying to be accepted here and just focus on trying to be treated equally/fairly instead. Police have many times asked me for my passport "random checks" when in public with friends...but always ignore my non-German friends who are Caucasian.
No, never got accepted in school. We played football “Deutsche gegen Ausländer” even though I’m ethnically German but my family came back here in the 1980s yet I was always an “Ausländer” even though I have a very German surname. In adult life, people can’t tell, but I see a change in their attitude when I accidentally mention something.
I think it really depends on what you mean by German.
German citizenship is one thing, ethnicity another.
If somebody has the former but grew up within the culture of their parents origin for example, I would not say that they are ethnically German while also not denying their citizenship.
haha! I always thought that there is something weird about those kind of questions :D I myself make bad experiences now and then because of my immigrant background although I was born and raised in germany, but hey that's the way it is everywhere else too, so why amplify a bad feeling...
Having an immigration background is not necessarily the same as being a first generation immigrant. In my personal use and social circles, "having an immigration background" also includes the children and grandchildren (German citizens in the overwhelming majority of all cases) of those first generation immigrants.
So it might not so much be as wanting to be German as just simply being German (but possibly not being accepted as such by some).
I'm half German half English. In Germany I'm mostly looked at as a Brit and in Britain I'm mostly looked at as a German. It can be hard not being accepted by either group fully, even though I consider myself to be from both groups. But what I learned is to judge the individual not the whole people. There will always be some that will see you as a German if you grew up and were born here, and there will always be some that consider you to be from the nation you are descended from. Sadly it seems the latter is true more often. But either way I always give people a chance to show me which person they are, but when they do I follow Maya Angelou's advice. "when someone shows you their true self, believe them the first time"
I'm the same - half brit, half german, born in the eighties, raised in Germany (learned German with my mother by watching Sesame Street together). Never been quite German (Christmas on the 25th instead of the 24th, Narnia instead of Grimm's, etc.), but also barely British, as I've never lived there and thus am missing many experiences. I've experienced people being interested in my alternative viewpoints and welcoming towards my short-comings, but I've also had Nazis gang up on me. Not knowing if I was Arthur-or-Martha, I personally settled on being 'European' (which is made easier by having family not only the UK and Germany, but also France, Italy and Poland).
I also have family all over, and spent time growing up in Czechia. I used to say I was a product of the EU before Brexit happened.
I still do :)
How do you attract Nazi gangs as white guy? Just genuinely curious, hope that wasn’t as bad as it sounds
First group: They had heared, that 'I wasn't German' and crashed my eighteenth birthday party, demanding beers as payment to 'let me use their facilities' (we had rented the local clubhouse - tiny village with a population of only 2.000). It ended in a good fight. Second group: They were drunkenly proudly making racist comments - I (drunkenly) proudly stood up to them...and had to be dragged away into safety from what I thought could be a good fight by my friends, after the first punches were exchanged. They were double in numbers, age and weight to us at the time. Both occasions happend around 2010ish in Bavarian villages. Being caucasian and speaking without an accent, I've barely had to put up with any comments and have had no major troubles other than the two above. My mother, who came to Germany in the eighties and has never been able to shake off the accent, has had to put up with racism in many forms... ...same as my ex-girlfriend, who was adopted from Africa to grow up in Germany at the age of one. She deflates evertime someone asks her 'where she's really from... originally'. On the whole though, I think Germany is doing alright. And the country has become more welcoming. Even the NeoNazis I used to know personally and the AFD voters I know today are usually very friendly to any foreigners they know personally - it's harder to hate against someone, when they're shaking your hand. The NeoNazis I knew used to come from broken homes and simply needed something to direct their anger against (no excuse, just an explanation. I did my best in helping them set their stuff right). The AFD voters today are mainly (understandably) disappointed by the established parties and politicians nowadays. I disagree with them and try to discuss politics with them in hopes of changing their views... But I doubt it'll be enough. Fighting for a better world for all is a never ending story. Fight with love, not your fists (I learned that one). But fight with determination.
This is a great answer.
bro you white nobody would even recognize you having a migration background unless you tellem
They hear it in my dialect.
accent.
aight i assumed you was born in germany and therefore had no dialect my bad. but still you dodge a lot of every day racism just by looking white thats a fact.
I didn't say it wasn't. I understand that racism exists here in Germany. But I never brought race into this. I was just sharing my experience and how I deal with the lack of acceptance I personally experienced.
I was born in Germany as an Australian, speaking German since kindergarten... still get called out as being not German when I speak. Somehow there will always be a dialect, and there will be questions about where I'm from.
Sometimes it's not even my German. If an English word comes up like "cool" or "chill" they immediately notice in my English pronunciation.
Bro, way to show your ignorance. Read any European history? Get a clue.
In the UK acceptance is largely on sounding native. You can be brown but if you sound like you're from Manchester or Birmingham or whatever then all is good. If you have a German accent, well....
No
X2
No and I couldn't care less.
I grew up in Germany my father was 100% German and many will never accept me as German because of my skin colour. It can go both directions. It's not just right wingers hoping that all brown people leave the country. Some spiritual India fans tried to talk me into accepting my true self practice yoga, ayurveda, pick an Indian sounding name etc. OK good part of the esoteric crowd might be open to right wing concepts without being aware of it
Lol No. Old habits die hard. Also it’s wierd that people don’t understand things like race, colour, nationality are accidents of birth. No one chooses them at birth. It’s absurd that people form a personality based on these accidents.
I always get shit because of my last name even though my family is for 5 generations living in Germany. (one side is German) My wife speaks fluent German but is from Russia and gets constantly asked about the war in ways that are extremely rude.
Imagine being from America when trump got elected lol. I had to answer for “my people” every day in the office
I wonder how the experience is going to differ when they elect him again
It’s gonna suck because now I won’t be able to say “at least we still have the Supreme Court” nor “the people might have voted for him once but there’s no way they’d do it again even if I may have said they’d never do it in the first place” Contrastly living and working in Germany when Obama was president was amazing. I reveled in so much undeserved praise so I guess this would just balance all that out lol
The way Germans like to look down on Americans and how much anti Americanism is normalized over here is really disgusting. I’m sorry for *my folks*
Well, imperialism sucks, I think it's okay to keep that normalized. But i wouldn't shame individuals for that necessarily – unless they are also into stupid U.S.A. ideologies…
That’s exactly what I mean. There is nothing dumber than a German accusing Americans of imperialism
friends do, but older ppl and like in professional contexts im the foreigner. idk much abt that tho. i try to lie, tell them i started learning german last year.
Nope! Born here, look German, first name is foreign ….get a lot of „complements“ on how good my German is and other comments like that
A second mother tongue and upbringing is an incredible gift! I remember to have hated it while I was a child, growing up in the 90ies, bc in my class and school I just wanted to be like everybody else. It took me a while to overcome this unnecessary shame and finally feel proud about it! I don't want to deny racism and bad remarks, children overhear and feel a lot, that brings along a certain sensitivity that nobody else will be able to understand. Maybe we don't entirely belong anywhere, bc we experienced more, but I don't think that the urbanized world nowadays works on absolute terms such as being a "whole german". Later on in my adult life this question stopped to cross my mind. I don't think it belongs to us and I also don't think that anyone who grew up in the german speaking world should question their belonging. We are, but we're not, but we are!
Germans have the perfect word "Egal"
I am and it differs. From time to time I do strongly feel German. Especially some characteristics such as being on time and precise I do have. I also visit from time to time the “Motherland” and feel a strong belonging as well. It’s weird. Like really. However, I believe it took me some 30 years to realize that I don’t have 2 but 0 “homelands”. To come back to your question, Even if people around you might accept you as German, The majority never will.
Even as a East German man we are not accepted by the „better“ Germans!
as a gen z west german i can tell you that in my generation we do not give a single fuck about someone coming from east germany we don't remember that shit and we don't care about it.
I can't confirm that. I, a West German, work in an office in Berlin with an East German, just him and me. I have no prejudices and neither does he, we get along great and there is no "better German". But I have met many East Germans who like to see themselves in the victim role, which I think is completely unnecessary these days. To your question OP, no, you will never be fully accepted as a German in Germany unless both parents are completely German.
That's not completely true, there are many countries of origin for which this (both parents having to be completely German) isn't the case. My father, for instance, was born in Helsinki and I've never gotten any flak for that. Sure, my last name was made fun of a bit in elementary school but that was very much the case for the unusual or funny sounding German surnames as well. I can also confirm what the other commentor said about the east/west divide not existing that much in the minds of the younger generations. I, for instance, wouldn't be able to tell you whether any of my classmates' (or current work collegues') families came from the east or from the west. The fact itself that there were two German states just a few years before our birth wasn't real at all for us, just a purely academic piece of knowledge.
totally not true. there are many people with one parent not coming from germany and beeing accepted in society including myself. i don't want to downplay every day racism it's huge problem but saying no one would ever be accepted is simply not true.
It’s the most (west) German thing to tell an anecdote about how *your experience* about racism isn’t true and you are simply a lier
That's not at all what was said though.
That is exactly what happened. OP asked for experience, most foreigners confirm Germans will not accept you unless you are ethnically German, and promptly someone comes and tells the victims of racism how there is none. That’s what I like about racism elsewhere, people at least don’t act like they are not racist
It was neither said that they were lying or that their experiences were untrue as you stated. That is simply not the case, I don't know what to tell you there. The only thing that was said is that you can be accepted as German by other Germans, that's all. This neither states nor implies either of the two things (lying and untrue experiences) that you stated. What you say is simply untrue.
[удалено]
No.
Well your lack of reading comprehension says otherwise.
You must realize that disagreeing with one's conclusion is different from saying that the experiences that lead someone to that conclusion are untrue/ invalid/ lied about. Do you seriously not see the difference or are you in fact arguing in bad faith? [Replying here as you have deleted your child comment stating "Are you stupid?". Kind of a dick move, btw. Stand by your statements, even if you do rescind them at a later time!]
I didn’t delete anything, you came here clamming something that is not true. This is not about disagreeing. You are a perpetrator of racism and scold people that are victims of racism that talk about it. If someone says people are racist toward them and you say that’s not true you are simply a piece of shit. It’s that easy. People like you are the issue. And ofc you are stupid. Even too stupid to read. Not surprising for a racist
1.What you claim to have been said was not in fact said. Please read my comment before responding to it. 2. You are mixing me up with the other commentor whom you are accusing of having said stuff he didn't say. 3. Ah, I see. Your comment was removed by a moderator. Feels good.
Let's see how long this one stays up :P
I really know nobody that wouldn't accept you as a german. Maybe it happens to you because you think there are "better" germans ;)
Oh I know people that wouldn't... They would play it down as a joke though.
so if you don't know anybody, that wouldn't accept this and that, it must be a real fact.
Yes, this is my reality.
I'm full Vietnamese born and raised in Germany and yes they do, especially when they hear my really German German.
Half Korean here, born in Germany, don't speak Korean, am a total alman, have a super German name. Of course they do. Statistically I count as having Migrationshintergrund, but it doesn't feel this way. My sister, who is much more Asian-presenting, doesn't feel as German as me, and has reported having been on the receiving end of racism – which is truly hard to believe for me because it has never happened to me outside of the schoolyard, but of course I do believe her. People usually do think I have something vaguely foreign in me from the way I look. Maybe Turkish, or something other undefinably oriental. I don't think I've ever been treated any worse because of it.
I'm German German but my last name isn't. I never really consciously noticed anything about it for the longest time but having worked at a very German company, I started to see some people don't see me fully as German. I didn't see any need to clarify this for such people, on the contrary but still very weird and annoying. I think there's some prejudice to see me as lazy (fwiw I've been quite a workaholic when I studied and on my first couple of jobs)
No, I see myself as a european and I couldn’t care less what others think.
It depends. I find that when I come across extremists on the left or the right, they are incredibly bigoted and racist. But the general population in the centre don’t treat me any differently as they would treat any other German they meet on the street. Even when they realise I struggle with the language.
My friends aren’t. And they also love telling the Germans who ask them where they are from “”””originally”””” that they’re German - and playing stupid like they don’t get the question haha
I've got multiple friends (even a Vietnamese) who are more German than actual Germans... Just saying
a bunch of cold, starring idiots that are always on time?
Yes, and it's because I'm white American. Sorry, but it's true. I've only been here for eight years, speak passable but very accented C1 German, still behave and appear quite American and have only American qualifications. Nope, I'm more or less "in". People are very surprised that I can't vote on Sunday in the European elections, and I'm very regularly complained to about the Ausländer. I watch POC peers with obviously native German get the classic "Wo kommst du eigentlich her?" or hear people described as Turkish or African when they're second or third generation Germans who've hardly left the country in their lives. It's a question of skin color, not language or actual Herkunft.
feels like dogs sniffing each others lol. backward cultural stuff. this is much less likely to happen in the U.S.
US is a melting pot. Europe isn't. If you're foreign it's pretty obvious regardless of skin colour. Integrate, and only racists will have problems, but you'll never be of this place. Im jn the same boat :)
i think the US learned from their past and more aware about this stuff.
I think that's super naive. You guys had segregation. Europe didn't. Until when were blacks second class citizens again? If America had an indigenous grouping that made a majority or close to, then maybe we could have this chat. But what happened to them again? ;)
Tbf, if you go by numbers that'd be mostly smallpox via the Columbian Exchange. Iirc that killed about 90% of the indigenous population during the first 2-3 decades after Europeans arrived on the Continent. I see and agree with your point though, just thought I'd add this less than relevant piece of info.
Imho it’s a language thing. If you sound like a German that shows you grew up German it doesn’t matter if you are black or Asian. I have met people with German names and foreign faces. But even the name is secondary. It’s the language. If you speak with an accent it shows. I would say skin color comes after and the name in third position.
I agree - if you grew up here or came here young enough that you can speak German natively, it's the primary indicator for me. But unfortunately very many people disagree and prioritize appearance.
If you define immigration background as being born abroad I am the wrong person to answer. If you mean that family wise there is one - yes. Most of my classmates also had at least one foreign parent I would say that the majority were seen as Germans by society. Maybe not a random old person that has weird views on this stuff. But the rest - sure. Especially if you don’t look fully foreign but are of a mixed ethnicity or European, the vast majority of people will see you as German here in Berlin. In my experience reasons for not being perceived as German are usually a noticeable accent or holding on strongly to the foreign cultural background. The more you identify as German yourself, the more people will perceive you as that on average. For example: like I mentioned my school was super mixed and we had kids who didn’t look stereotypical German but dressed, spoke and behaved all like the Germans. And their German friends didn’t see them as Azerbaijani, Tamil, Chinese, Italian, Hungarian, etc but as German (with an additional background). But we had this one Polish girl who was just half Polish technically and born and raised in Berlin but she was like a walking ad for Poland and always spoke of herself as Polish, never as German. Which lead to her being perceived as Polish rather than German, despite probably looking a lot more stereotypical German compared to others. Of course this isn’t representative of first impression of a stranger on the street but more if the person in question was someone you interacted with regularly like a classmate, colleague, etc. If you’re just talking about how people will perceive you on the street, looking European and not speaking a foreign language will make people assume you’re German. Looking foreign probably leads to people assume you’re foreign.
Only read your first paragraph but I agree. In Berlin I also feel accepted in German society (Half German/Mexican from US). In other places, not so much.
Just curious, how do you think strangers perceive you? I’m wondering because my background is not too dissimilar from yours and I’ve had some strange or hostile situations because of someone mistaking me for someone else; they almost always mention Turk or Arab in accusatory ways.
To be honest I rly don’t give it too much thought, if people see me to be German, that’s cool, if not, that’s cool also. Never any hostility based upon my appearance though.
depends on the shade of your skin, but usually no they dont
In Berlin rarely anyone questions this. Outside Berlin „you don’t look German“. (Berlin born South East Asian)
My moms was born in Tunisia, she gets accepted as German, especially because she took my dads German name. Myself, I read as German, so it’s not even a question, but I’m still a little insulted that my government considers me to have an „immigration background“. In my view, I don’t and I’m put off by people who’s grandparents came here presenting themselves as anything but German first.
No, they don’t. But I don’t care anymore.
I have an arabic immigrant background, but i grew up with my german mother so i just have the looks no behaviour (islam etc.). I am very well accepted by Germans. Have alot of German friends, invited to everything, we never talk about my heritage
why? French, British whatever are never ashamed of saying they are originally from there.
Because they aren’t? They said they only have the genes and are raised German by a single parent. They are originally from Germany.
I am not ashamed either. Just wanted to mention that German accepd me and and almost never get asked where are you ariginally from. If someone does I am happy to tell about my Arabic Background
Depends how dark your skin is...got african roots in 3. Generation...I got a more lighter skin tone...germans treat me like one of them - wouldn't classify me as something other than german or at least european. ..my Brother however got a clearly darker skin tone and he was experiencing racism a lot in a suburb of Berlin when we were going to school. We have the same mum and dad. So it was just gambling how dark our skin will become in terms of genetics 🤷🏽♂️ Many germans are afraid of the black man it seems. But most are not! My Brothers experiences got better the older he became
Many Germans have an ethno-cultural concept, of what it means to be German. It means you can be a German, but you can never become a German. This option doesnt exist in their heads. If you dont look like what a German has to look like in their heads, you will never be a German to them.
It depends on what you mean by becoming German... Ethnically? Probably quite hard as changing DNA is not a thing so far. Demeanor? Oh yes, and it can be quite funny Citizenship? Quite possible. But most people wouldn't call themselves German even if they are on paper. They don't want to identify with its history and the consequences. So I guess it's a give and take in this case.
But you can become an American or a French or Brazilian, because those concepts are not tied to ethnicity. That's the difference.
In America and Brazil the concepts are different. France? Not sure if they see it like that. In Germany lots of people from different backgrounds will tell you they don't feel German even if they were born here and don't have any other passports. So the concept here rather depends on who you are asking while in Brazil it's clear to everyone that everyone with a longer family tie is Brazilian. You can actually tease people by calling them German just simply based on their citizenship.
That is because many people with a German passport do not feel accepted by Germans, for the reasons stated above.
No, centuries of ethnic superiority, colonialism, imperialism and militarism have shaped society in a way that can’t be deleted suddenly just because a war was lost
This idea of German identity is actually heavily shaped by the ideology the Nazis based their beliefs on. The first mention of the term "deutsch/theodisk" actually is from the 8th century and refers to everyone speaking a Germanic language and not looking a certain way. That whole racial shit was introduced way later by racists.
Nazis didn’t introduce racism into German culture, Prussia did. Nazis are the tip of the iceberg
Prussia introduced militarism to Germany. The Fascist ideology was introduced through Catholicism. Never forget, Munich was the capital of the movement. Nazis originally hated Berlin, for its cosmopolitanism. (And Frederick the Great said this; All religions are just as good as each other, so long as the people who practise them are honest, and even if the Turks and heathens came and wanted to populate this country, then we would build mosques and temples for them.)
Yes to the centuries of brainwashing but actually attitudinal shifts at a population level can happen very quickly if planned/financed well. It's just that the super rich prefer us to remain divided.
I have a Jamaican dad and German mum, born in Germany, schooled in Kingston and Berlin. Jamaica is very accepting because of their history with slavery and have the beautiful motto "Out of many, one people". In Berlin people mostly assume I'm not German because of my skin colour. Most people keep to themselves, but I regularly hear Germans saying racist shit to me/or at me to the point Ive given up trying to be accepted here and just focus on trying to be treated equally/fairly instead. Police have many times asked me for my passport "random checks" when in public with friends...but always ignore my non-German friends who are Caucasian.
No, never got accepted in school. We played football “Deutsche gegen Ausländer” even though I’m ethnically German but my family came back here in the 1980s yet I was always an “Ausländer” even though I have a very German surname. In adult life, people can’t tell, but I see a change in their attitude when I accidentally mention something.
I think it really depends on what you mean by German. German citizenship is one thing, ethnicity another. If somebody has the former but grew up within the culture of their parents origin for example, I would not say that they are ethnically German while also not denying their citizenship.
Kommt drauf an.
Who is the „society“? What a weird question.
Why all these questions are made by bots?
how can you tell?
They always have very few kharma points and make questions about germans and struggles of living in Germany
haha! I always thought that there is something weird about those kind of questions :D I myself make bad experiences now and then because of my immigrant background although I was born and raised in germany, but hey that's the way it is everywhere else too, so why amplify a bad feeling...
Here I increased your karma a little bit
Thanks :)
TIL every new account that posts a question here cannot be a human.
There is a pattern baby, check them for some weeks before talking ;)
no, u bot. beep boop
You already sent 20 bots to remove the likes I got and leave me with negative kharma in 5 min? Suspicious haha
I’m definitely not a bot and just downvoted you lol. Happy?
Go back to the kindergarten where humans will find something funmy in your behaviour. Really, don't give cringe
The place where you should have learned how not to be a dick?
Can't be that there's simply more people disagreeing with your logic than agreeing with it?
[удалено]
Why would i wanna be german if i am an immigrant?
Having an immigration background is not necessarily the same as being a first generation immigrant. In my personal use and social circles, "having an immigration background" also includes the children and grandchildren (German citizens in the overwhelming majority of all cases) of those first generation immigrants. So it might not so much be as wanting to be German as just simply being German (but possibly not being accepted as such by some).
Ah, i see. Thanks for clarifying,
If you behave and be a working and integrated part of the community you are part of this country... Otherwise No.