Marbles are very prone to tumors. Lox is looking a bit like a frankenfish thanks to his. But Iāve done my best to keep him healthy as he can be. Heās given me a year of joy, and even if he doesnāt have much time left, Iām proud of how far heās made it.
Yeah.. it's sad that animals are affected this way due to genetics. it's why I'm extremely careful when looking for bettas and avoid bettas prone to extreme and immediate problems.
So no dragonscales samurais and metallics (dragon eye), kois, halfmoon/overhalfs super deltas and massive tails (fin tear/nipping), super red/blue/green/black (graphite + tumors).
Double tails I don't mind but they're shorter than regular bettas so I don't prefer them. Marbles go from white to another color and I prefer a betta that has it's main color from the beginning. I see people feel scammed when they order a dalmation betta and it turns blue.
Ironically I have a black orchid crowntail but he's always been my dream betta. He also rests in his log and on the filter alot. It must be heavy.
The other dream betta I want is conflicting because he's a veiltail but his tail is huge.
Honestly at this point every variant of betta has some sort of issue going on with it. There are some that are worse than others but youāre bound to run into some kind of issue statistically.
Yes but some bettas have more extreme issues than others. For example: all dogs have problems, yes. However I wouldn't willingly choose a pug.
Dragonscale/samurai/metallic is incompatible with me in particular because my tank setup is not done and I'm still changing stuff in it. When they turn fully blind, you can no longer change the tank.
Huh I was wondering that because the only two bettas I ever had get tumors were both my marbles. Both lived over a year with the tumors and it never seemed to slow either down much.
Iād say itās just the bad genetics. I also had a blue marble that I got as a ārescueā because he already had a big tumor. He lived for maybe 3 years after that, tumors would grow and then shrink or fall off pretty regularly. Eventually he was just dead one day with no real indication or warning. They should really stop with these overly inbred dragon scales.
Lox was a Petco find. Shoved way in the back, half the size of other males. Already had dragon eye. I had a rough idea of what I was getting into but figured Iād give him his best life as long as I could. If these get much bigger, I may have to euthanize just for the sheer strain itās putting on him. He still swims and eats hungrily, but everything just seems much more difficulty with a head that big and unwieldy
Good for you. He was probably destined for the trash if you didnāt find him. If you have any better LFSās in your area I would recommend supporting them over petco
Not that Iām aware of but I think my next betta will be ordered online from a reputable breeder. Itās a double edged sword because so many of those PetCo bettas will die in horrible conditions, whether customers are buying or not.
Yeahā¦ Iām a former petco aquatic manager. Been through the debate many times. Imo itās best to not support it, the only way they would ever change policy is drop in sales and enough people making noise. When I was there people did organized protests abt the betta cups believe it or not, doesnāt seem to have worked yet but if enough people boycotted and made it public maybe they would. Just my 2 cents
My first betta was a pet store rescue, saved by a woman, who then shipped her to me. I still have his adoption papers. My second was a petco find. My third is a pet store find.
I'm considering going to a breeder for my next betta when I can afford it because there's a specific betta I absolutely fell in love with on the website. I am extremely picky because alot of bettas have genetic issues due to their flashiness being that attactive. Dragoneye is because of a gene that forces their scales to grow extremely fast. Everywhere. Even over their eyes.
The problem is..
breeders and pet stores get their stuff from the same stock.
The difference is breeder bettas are much more flashy in color and type and tail and that flashiness is due to more extreme inbreeding. Breeders get pick of the litter, and sell the rest, the less flashy bettas to pet stores.
Like petco.
You can tell how good stock is between stores by looking at flashiness and confirmation of their bettas. The ''best'' looking bettas in terms of health and confirmation were are 99 cent store bettas near my area who were small, body type straight and firm like a wild, plakat/crowntail mix types mostly and single color or 2 color. Basically looking like wolfdogs if wolfdogs were bettas.
Breeders often sell unwanted stock to any pet stores, not just petco in general however. Can't count the amount of times I've gone to any mom and pop pet stoe and seen them.
The best thing to do would be to buy wild bettas from a transshipper like Franks bettas if you really want good genes. These certainly wonāt be inbred to death
I thought about it, but wild bettas aren't really what I'm looking for. It's like.. a wolf vs a dog. A dog has so much variation in how they look with tails, ears, stance, stature, job, and colors that don't exist in pure wolf populations.
Uh, have you seen some wild types being bred?
https://preview.redd.it/7jq1lqo7kqwc1.jpeg?width=1035&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eca54f3bbbc0c7474ea8f2b4c14c1085f3eff89e
https://preview.redd.it/wujye77qjuwc1.jpeg?width=3605&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f829b7a834d1da89e119d2d692425557e26c03b
got a betta mahachaiensis that begs to differ lmao
I do everything I can to avoid walking into petsmart/co because itās just instant heartbreak. Theyāre kept so horribly, so many of them go home to die in inappropriate enclosures, and even more just sit and rot in those little containers until theyāre dead. Not to mention all the ones that are simply thrown into the trash, alive or not.
The corporation doesnāt care, theyāre just profit and inventory. The managers Iāve spoken to countless times often feel the same. Even the employees Iāve interacted seem to be unbothered by the neglect and suffering they watch all day, every day.
And of course, walking by them is what always breaks me. I canāt DO anything. The ones who are suffering beyond relief, gasping for breath in their burning water. The ones who arenāt as pretty and will likely sit there until they end rot. The ones who are still bright and feisty, not knowing what that their fate is grim. I canāt afford to take the healthy ones home. I canāt pay for the ones to be euthanized after begging the staff to do it themselves. I canāt just encourage the cycle of them being purchased and restocked, continuing this horrible cycle.
I end up sobbing in my car every time. Itās not fair. They did nothing to deserve this.
Thank you for mentioning them shrinking. I've never heard about that before and my boys massive tumor shrunk significantly recently. He's happy and active as ever, also mostly blind. The shrinkage really surprised me.
Please show this to corporate of the pet store you bought him from. They are losing money selling fish with bad genetics. Long living fish mean more sales in fish supplies. Iām sorry your fish is going through this. It is not right at all.
This exactly. One time I was talking to a Petco worker and I told them about one of their bettas on the shelf, swim bladder bound, bro had buoyancy atp. The worker goes "oh they're just bettas! they aren't meant to live long!" I was like "Ma'am can you repeat that???" š
It amazes me that people still think dragon scales and metallics are okay despite the fact that this can happen. This particular case looks like a euthanize type.
How do you know whether yours is a dragon scale? I just got mine from the betta store and he was solid blue, but now heās metallic
https://preview.redd.it/6eibuabc7qwc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce743adfa8a469086e3da6e89646e743aef5bc63
He chunky!! If Iām not mistaken, metallic/dragon scales are equivalent to a coat type on a dog. A scale type if you will. So they should be labeled as so, ex my fish was ādragon scale samurai maleā. Otherwise Iād assume itās a standard scale type fish unless it was incorrectly labeled. Yours seems like the standard blue type but if Iām completely wrong on all this I have no issue being corrected lol
I see!! He was just labeled as a male veil tail and heās just become very metallic over the year. Yeah he looks really chunky, but I put him on a diet of like 2-4 pellets a day (w fasting) but he just big boned š
He has beautiful coloring and heās cute. Heās lucky to have you I wouldnāt do anything until youāre absolutely sure. Maybe even put him in a smaller tank for āhandicappedā fish.
As with anything, thereās never a guarantee. But bettas with dragon scale gene are at a much, much higher risk for things like dragon eye (scale grows over/into the eye, blinding the fish), as well as skin tumors like Lox has. He already had dragon eye when I got him, which I understood, and when he began developing tumors a few months ago, I also knew that it was part of his genetic issues. These morphs are basically the pugs of the betta world, and I canāt say I would recommend them. I took Lox in because I knew no one else would want him, and heās gotten a year he wouldnāt have otherwise had. But if you want a betta who will be healthy and wonāt need special care, I advise against dragon scales. Pet store bettas in general are pretty horrifically inbred as others in the comments have mentioned, and the betta trade has really gone off the rails with these overbred morphs.
He has some of the worst genetics I've seen. Probably has cancer pretty bad and is what is making him lose fins rather than regular fin rot caused by poor water quality. His fins aren't clamped, and his scales look good, so he's not in pain. Just keep doing what you're doing, but when you notice his activity go down to the point he rarely swims anymore, it might be time to think about euthanasia. I don't think you're at that point yet, but watch his color and activity levels closely. You can't treat cancer and genetic tumors. You would just stress him and possibly kill him if you tried a bunch of chemicals to treat him.
I think you're doing the best you can and giving him the best quality of life possible, all things considered.
Thank you for posting to r/bettafish. If you are new to betta fish keeping, please check out our [caresheet](https://www.reddit.com/r/bettafish/comments/3ow6vz/info_betta_care_sheet/) and [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/bettafish/wiki/index). Establishing a nitrogen cycle is an important part of keeping your fish healthy. Please check out our [guide to the nitrogen cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/bettafish/wiki/fishincycle) to learn more.
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Tank- 5 gallon
Plants- artificial (silk)
Tank mates- 1 black racer nerite snail
Temp- 79 - 80
Food- 3-5 fluval bug bites each morning
Water changes- bi weekly 25% w/ 50% and gravel vac monthly
Parameters- no home test kit; last check 2 weeks ago, all within normal limits. Now post 50% change and gravel vac.
Heater and filter in place.
Probably wouldn't hurt to up your tank maintenance. You report 25% water change bi weekly and have not tested parameters. Try 10% weekly just to keep him in pristine water. Personally, I think live plants add a lot to a healthy tank, but it might also pose a risk at this stage if the plant brings something unexpected like a parasite. The problem seems to be genetic but great water quality is the best medicine. I agree that a hospital tank would just stress him out. No point in that unless you're dosing intense medications. Thanks for helping this guy out! He's really cool looking.
that foo is going through the ringer wtfš
Marbles are very prone to tumors. Lox is looking a bit like a frankenfish thanks to his. But Iāve done my best to keep him healthy as he can be. Heās given me a year of joy, and even if he doesnāt have much time left, Iām proud of how far heās made it.
youāre a better betta owner than me cause I wouldnāt know what to do
Yeah.. it's sad that animals are affected this way due to genetics. it's why I'm extremely careful when looking for bettas and avoid bettas prone to extreme and immediate problems. So no dragonscales samurais and metallics (dragon eye), kois, halfmoon/overhalfs super deltas and massive tails (fin tear/nipping), super red/blue/green/black (graphite + tumors). Double tails I don't mind but they're shorter than regular bettas so I don't prefer them. Marbles go from white to another color and I prefer a betta that has it's main color from the beginning. I see people feel scammed when they order a dalmation betta and it turns blue. Ironically I have a black orchid crowntail but he's always been my dream betta. He also rests in his log and on the filter alot. It must be heavy. The other dream betta I want is conflicting because he's a veiltail but his tail is huge.
Honestly at this point every variant of betta has some sort of issue going on with it. There are some that are worse than others but youāre bound to run into some kind of issue statistically.
Yes but some bettas have more extreme issues than others. For example: all dogs have problems, yes. However I wouldn't willingly choose a pug. Dragonscale/samurai/metallic is incompatible with me in particular because my tank setup is not done and I'm still changing stuff in it. When they turn fully blind, you can no longer change the tank.
My boy had tumors like these for about a year. Give him some extra love from me
real, my betta is feeling sick right now and iām not sure what it is but i wanna do what i can to make sure she feels betterā¦ weāre trying š¤
Huh I was wondering that because the only two bettas I ever had get tumors were both my marbles. Both lived over a year with the tumors and it never seemed to slow either down much.
Iād say itās just the bad genetics. I also had a blue marble that I got as a ārescueā because he already had a big tumor. He lived for maybe 3 years after that, tumors would grow and then shrink or fall off pretty regularly. Eventually he was just dead one day with no real indication or warning. They should really stop with these overly inbred dragon scales.
Lox was a Petco find. Shoved way in the back, half the size of other males. Already had dragon eye. I had a rough idea of what I was getting into but figured Iād give him his best life as long as I could. If these get much bigger, I may have to euthanize just for the sheer strain itās putting on him. He still swims and eats hungrily, but everything just seems much more difficulty with a head that big and unwieldy
Good for you. He was probably destined for the trash if you didnāt find him. If you have any better LFSās in your area I would recommend supporting them over petco
Not that Iām aware of but I think my next betta will be ordered online from a reputable breeder. Itās a double edged sword because so many of those PetCo bettas will die in horrible conditions, whether customers are buying or not.
Yeahā¦ Iām a former petco aquatic manager. Been through the debate many times. Imo itās best to not support it, the only way they would ever change policy is drop in sales and enough people making noise. When I was there people did organized protests abt the betta cups believe it or not, doesnāt seem to have worked yet but if enough people boycotted and made it public maybe they would. Just my 2 cents
My first betta was a pet store rescue, saved by a woman, who then shipped her to me. I still have his adoption papers. My second was a petco find. My third is a pet store find. I'm considering going to a breeder for my next betta when I can afford it because there's a specific betta I absolutely fell in love with on the website. I am extremely picky because alot of bettas have genetic issues due to their flashiness being that attactive. Dragoneye is because of a gene that forces their scales to grow extremely fast. Everywhere. Even over their eyes. The problem is.. breeders and pet stores get their stuff from the same stock. The difference is breeder bettas are much more flashy in color and type and tail and that flashiness is due to more extreme inbreeding. Breeders get pick of the litter, and sell the rest, the less flashy bettas to pet stores. Like petco. You can tell how good stock is between stores by looking at flashiness and confirmation of their bettas. The ''best'' looking bettas in terms of health and confirmation were are 99 cent store bettas near my area who were small, body type straight and firm like a wild, plakat/crowntail mix types mostly and single color or 2 color. Basically looking like wolfdogs if wolfdogs were bettas.
Petco orders bettas segrest farms in Florida. At least in the east coast. Breeders breed their own bettas, hence the title.
Breeders often sell unwanted stock to any pet stores, not just petco in general however. Can't count the amount of times I've gone to any mom and pop pet stoe and seen them.
The best thing to do would be to buy wild bettas from a transshipper like Franks bettas if you really want good genes. These certainly wonāt be inbred to death
I thought about it, but wild bettas aren't really what I'm looking for. It's like.. a wolf vs a dog. A dog has so much variation in how they look with tails, ears, stance, stature, job, and colors that don't exist in pure wolf populations.
Uh, have you seen some wild types being bred? https://preview.redd.it/7jq1lqo7kqwc1.jpeg?width=1035&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eca54f3bbbc0c7474ea8f2b4c14c1085f3eff89e
https://preview.redd.it/wujye77qjuwc1.jpeg?width=3605&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f829b7a834d1da89e119d2d692425557e26c03b got a betta mahachaiensis that begs to differ lmao
I do everything I can to avoid walking into petsmart/co because itās just instant heartbreak. Theyāre kept so horribly, so many of them go home to die in inappropriate enclosures, and even more just sit and rot in those little containers until theyāre dead. Not to mention all the ones that are simply thrown into the trash, alive or not. The corporation doesnāt care, theyāre just profit and inventory. The managers Iāve spoken to countless times often feel the same. Even the employees Iāve interacted seem to be unbothered by the neglect and suffering they watch all day, every day. And of course, walking by them is what always breaks me. I canāt DO anything. The ones who are suffering beyond relief, gasping for breath in their burning water. The ones who arenāt as pretty and will likely sit there until they end rot. The ones who are still bright and feisty, not knowing what that their fate is grim. I canāt afford to take the healthy ones home. I canāt pay for the ones to be euthanized after begging the staff to do it themselves. I canāt just encourage the cycle of them being purchased and restocked, continuing this horrible cycle. I end up sobbing in my car every time. Itās not fair. They did nothing to deserve this.
Damn this describes the hopelessness very well š
I started getting teary eyed as I typed it like jeez I know Iām emotional but it just hurts š
Thank you for mentioning them shrinking. I've never heard about that before and my boys massive tumor shrunk significantly recently. He's happy and active as ever, also mostly blind. The shrinkage really surprised me.
bro looks like a coelacanth
Theyāre both survivors. Thatās for sure.
Hahahaha I died laughing
Thanks for giving him a good life while he has it š„¹
Please show this to corporate of the pet store you bought him from. They are losing money selling fish with bad genetics. Long living fish mean more sales in fish supplies. Iām sorry your fish is going through this. It is not right at all.
Are they, though? Or are they just selling more fish this way?
This exactly. One time I was talking to a Petco worker and I told them about one of their bettas on the shelf, swim bladder bound, bro had buoyancy atp. The worker goes "oh they're just bettas! they aren't meant to live long!" I was like "Ma'am can you repeat that???" š
It amazes me that people still think dragon scales and metallics are okay despite the fact that this can happen. This particular case looks like a euthanize type.
How do you know whether yours is a dragon scale? I just got mine from the betta store and he was solid blue, but now heās metallic https://preview.redd.it/6eibuabc7qwc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce743adfa8a469086e3da6e89646e743aef5bc63
He chunky!! If Iām not mistaken, metallic/dragon scales are equivalent to a coat type on a dog. A scale type if you will. So they should be labeled as so, ex my fish was ādragon scale samurai maleā. Otherwise Iād assume itās a standard scale type fish unless it was incorrectly labeled. Yours seems like the standard blue type but if Iām completely wrong on all this I have no issue being corrected lol
I see!! He was just labeled as a male veil tail and heās just become very metallic over the year. Yeah he looks really chunky, but I put him on a diet of like 2-4 pellets a day (w fasting) but he just big boned š
He has beautiful coloring and heās cute. Heās lucky to have you I wouldnāt do anything until youāre absolutely sure. Maybe even put him in a smaller tank for āhandicappedā fish.
Not a professional opinion, but dude needs to just accept its fate and move onto fish afterlife. Nothing looks humane keeping it alive.
it looks so old
He looks like Godzilla š
So this happens to all dragon scale types? š„ŗ I was thinking of getting a "samurai" type.... Are they guaranteed to end up deformed like this?
As with anything, thereās never a guarantee. But bettas with dragon scale gene are at a much, much higher risk for things like dragon eye (scale grows over/into the eye, blinding the fish), as well as skin tumors like Lox has. He already had dragon eye when I got him, which I understood, and when he began developing tumors a few months ago, I also knew that it was part of his genetic issues. These morphs are basically the pugs of the betta world, and I canāt say I would recommend them. I took Lox in because I knew no one else would want him, and heās gotten a year he wouldnāt have otherwise had. But if you want a betta who will be healthy and wonāt need special care, I advise against dragon scales. Pet store bettas in general are pretty horrifically inbred as others in the comments have mentioned, and the betta trade has really gone off the rails with these overbred morphs.
Things like this make me wonder if fish keeping is even ethical to begin with.... :( makes me feel guilty for even having fish š
He has some of the worst genetics I've seen. Probably has cancer pretty bad and is what is making him lose fins rather than regular fin rot caused by poor water quality. His fins aren't clamped, and his scales look good, so he's not in pain. Just keep doing what you're doing, but when you notice his activity go down to the point he rarely swims anymore, it might be time to think about euthanasia. I don't think you're at that point yet, but watch his color and activity levels closely. You can't treat cancer and genetic tumors. You would just stress him and possibly kill him if you tried a bunch of chemicals to treat him. I think you're doing the best you can and giving him the best quality of life possible, all things considered.
Thank you for posting to r/bettafish. If you are new to betta fish keeping, please check out our [caresheet](https://www.reddit.com/r/bettafish/comments/3ow6vz/info_betta_care_sheet/) and [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/bettafish/wiki/index). Establishing a nitrogen cycle is an important part of keeping your fish healthy. Please check out our [guide to the nitrogen cycle](https://www.reddit.com/r/bettafish/wiki/fishincycle) to learn more. If you are posting to find out what is wrong with your betta, please answer the following questions in a reply to this comment as best you can: * **Tank size**: * **Heater and filter? (yes/no)**: * **Tank temperature**: * **[Parameters in numbers and how you got them](https://www.reddit.com/r/bettafish/wiki/tank#wiki_test_kits)**: * **How long have you had the tank? How long have you had your fish?**: * **How often are water changes? How much do you take out per change? What is your process?**: * **Any tankmates? If so, please list with how many of each**: * **What do you feed and how much**: * **Decorations and plants in the tank**: * **If you haven't already posted a picture, please post pics/vids to imgur and paste the link here**: Feel free to copy this comment and fill in the blanks. Failure to provide adequate information about your tank *can* result in post removal. Please see rule 4 for more information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bettafish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tank- 5 gallon Plants- artificial (silk) Tank mates- 1 black racer nerite snail Temp- 79 - 80 Food- 3-5 fluval bug bites each morning Water changes- bi weekly 25% w/ 50% and gravel vac monthly Parameters- no home test kit; last check 2 weeks ago, all within normal limits. Now post 50% change and gravel vac. Heater and filter in place.
Probably wouldn't hurt to up your tank maintenance. You report 25% water change bi weekly and have not tested parameters. Try 10% weekly just to keep him in pristine water. Personally, I think live plants add a lot to a healthy tank, but it might also pose a risk at this stage if the plant brings something unexpected like a parasite. The problem seems to be genetic but great water quality is the best medicine. I agree that a hospital tank would just stress him out. No point in that unless you're dosing intense medications. Thanks for helping this guy out! He's really cool looking.
I would also feed 2x a day-if he will eat.
Kids had a rough paper round
He looks more like a submarine from ww2
Isnāt that white stuff fungus?
He began life almost completely white and gradually turned blue. That white patch is his ābald spotā that stayed white throughout his life
Aweee thatās adorable