I grew up in a low income family. It is hard as a kid to know you're not financially secure. We knew when payday was, when the cupboards were empty or when we had to skip a school excursion or camp. It definitely gave us kids insecurities others didn't experience. My mother sacrificed everything to give us kids every opportunity she possibly could with her means, but it was tough. We had alot of love and emotional support though. Did we miss out on things? Yes Do us children still have some poverty trauma now as adults? Yes Would we choose to be born into our family again if we had the choice? Absolutely, there was and still is so much love. Are us kids all committed to getting financially secure now as adults? Yes. None of us want to experience that level of poverty again and we've all delayed having children until financially ready.

I had an almost identical experience to you that has impacted my own decisions on having children. When my first was born it made me relook at my own childhood and realise that I had a lot of unprocessed trauma from growing up in such financial insecurity. My dad was always in and out of work, and I was very aware from an incredibly young age that I shouldn’t ask for new clothes, food or drink while we were out of the house, or any sort of toy / paid for activity because we couldn’t afford it and I felt extreme guilt putting my parents in a position to have to say no all the time. It motivated me to do everything I can to avoid bringing my own children up in that same kind of environment. I want to be able to pay for my child to have experiences growing up, even something as simple as going to a farm or a petting zoo where there’s an entrance fee, but also being able to afford after school activities and hobbies when they’re older. I would love three children but with the cost of living I’m worried it would mean that my existing two children won’t get the same quality of life. That being said it’s obviously OP’s choice to have another child and lots of people can have lovely childhoods while not having much money, but I guess my point is it can also be a horrible childhood to constantly go without and feel excluded from everything their friends can do.

I could have written this myself, also grew up in poverty and chose to wait until I was in my mid-30s to have children myself once my husband and I were both settled into our careers. Also choosing not to have a third child because I know it would strain our budget into a dangerous territory 🙃

This is me except I’m in my mid 30s not even considering the second. While it wouldn’t strain our budget in most areas, daycare would sink us and make every other aspect of our lives unenjoyable. My mom was a single mother and took great care of us but never had a dollar saved for things like field trips or school lunches. It was embarrassing. We had brand name clothes and whatever we needed but I had a job at 14 and had to start buying things I needed. Not because she asked, but because I felt guilty asking. I put myself through drivers ed at 21 because I was the only one of my friends not driving. I love my mom. My childhood was so wonderful but it was SO HARD. I wouldn’t do that to my child. I can afford everything my baby needs and all the fun we want to have right now.

Similar to my experience. I still have a lot of fear about not having enough money and the stress of being financially strapped did detract from my parents ability to be there for us. However, overall we had a wonderful childhood and there was always enough love to go around. If I had to choose, I’d rather have poor parents who were loving rather than rich parents who didn’t make time for us. That said, for me, it was really important to be financially secure before becoming a parent. Had I had children five years earlier I would not be able to enjoy the experience the way I do. Also, my parents are in a much better place now and we won’t need to provide much or any financial support for them. That was very important to them because they were dragged down by needing to support their own parents. Given that you are a waitress, it’s also relevant to think about the impact of missing shifts due to illness or other inevitable surprises with kids. I would work on building up a healthy (3-6 month of essential expenses) before attempting to conceive again to have a little buffer. Being able to live within your means is a tremendous skill and it sounds like you have that. You have much more control over spending vs income. That said, there’s a floor of minimum expenses and it seems like you guys are just floating above that.

Wow. Couldn’t have said it better. I’ve grown a lot of issues with money as an adult because I wasn’t taught how to properly manage it as a child as well.

It doesn't take a lot of money to raise children well, but children raised in financially unstable environments do not come out of that experience unscathed. I grew up poor, and I remember worrying about money at a young age. I have a vivid memory of crying in the car because my dad bought me a small toy, and I wasn't sure if we'd be OK after spending the money. That kind of constant stress weighs on people and changes them. You say your budget is tight now. Is another baby going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

Oof you just reminded me of my mother crying from embarrassment because she had to put some food back to be able to afford our Christmas grocery shop. I was probably 7 or 8.

I will say sometimes this may be about how the parents present things. My dad used to panic about money and tell us kids that literally anything we did for fun was eating into his travel money. He would talk about how he always wanted to travel the world. And I remember being SO STRESSED OUT that the little toy I wanted was going to keep him from getting to achieve his dreams when I was a little kid. Then I worried about if we’d have to move/be able to eat/etc. As an adult I’ve come to learn that at that time my dad was making 500k a year and was absolutely blowing it on frivolous nonsense. He’d eat out at fancy restaurants daily, and has a disgusting house full of expensive keyboards and random things. He never has traveled, and turns out he has almost no savings and no retirement. But that was NOT BECAUSE 6 YEAR OLD ME WANTED A DOLL. He was just an ass.

Woww thats just so mean of him… what kind of career did he have to be making that much? Also its crazy how theres lots of people out there with lots of money but they dont know how to properly use it. Im thinking of how so many athletes have almost nothing to show for their hard work after they retire just because they didnt have or tried to look into obtaining proper financial knowledge

I think it’s important to separate the stress from being poor with the stress from knowing you are poor. I didn’t really understand what it meant that we were poor until I was older. I knew not to ask for expensive toys and that eating out was a special treat, but my parents never let us know that we may not have enough money for food or housing if they did splurge on us. I knew that every month my dad filled out a form from the church to get food, and we would all sit at the table and talk about what things we wanted to ask for that month. They never communicated their stress about whether we would have enough to eat, though.

Yeah this is it. My MIL always made sure her kids knew they didn’t have money, and it really affected my husband. Obviously sometimes circumstances make that impossible, but it was often to guilt them from wanting anything.

Yes to this. We weren't poor poor, but lower middle class and went through some rough patches even though we always had the necessities. My mom was always telling me we're poor we can't afford x. She told me my dad's salary when I was 11 and explained that wasn't a lot of money. So naive me went around telling my friends we were poor. Later on I had other friends who also grew up similarly but their parents still planned local free experiences or get togethers and kept their houses tidy. If you're low income but are able to provide stable, loving care and necessities I think that's what's most important. I'm an only child and while I do understand why, it would've been nice to have a sibling to commiserate with.

Sorry, slightly off topic, but your mentioning a monthly form for food being filled out for your church, and discussing what to ask for... This brings back so many memories... Are you a Latter Day Saint? 'Cause we did the same thing for the longest time, filling out that form for the Bishop's Store House.

At the time we were part of the LDS church, yep.

Haha well hi! Nicely met!

Yup. I remember being worried about losing our home as early as like 7 because I was well aware that my mom couldn't afford it and we were only able to stay because my grandparents were helping pay for it. I am not well off now, but we are stable and could afford a second child. If our budget was that tight, I would have stuck with one.

Yeah I have a very vivid memory from when I was 8 or 9 of my mom crying after she’d bought me a toy horse. I’d saved up for it from birthday money etc and thought I had enough, but we misread the tag on the shelf and it was actually $14 more. She was too embarrassed at the cashier when it rang up as more and didn’t want to disappoint me so she covered the rest. That $14 was enough for her to worry if we’d have enough food til her next pay. Is it universally traumatic and terrible to grow up with financial hardship? Of course not. But exactly as this comment said, children in these positions will not escape unscathed. Not telling OP what they should or should not do, but it is very important to consider what impacts there may be and how, if they choose to have another child, to mitigate those.

Yup this! I have this feeling when i think about my childhood that I had to let go a lot because we didn’t have enough and education was expensive. I bought a few books (not educational) and when we came home, my mom said we can never do this again because we don’t have enough. Eating out was basically non-existent. Basically you as parents might be fine but it does take a toll on the child. And this is a lifelong toll. Today I have my own money and I can buy whatever I want. But I always feel guilty and panicky spending any money because I have a very penny pinching mindset from my childhood.

This. OP should also consider what the situation will be if one of them (parent or child) becomes ill, disabled, or is born with a disability that requires expensive therapies. Birth and pregnancy alone can have serious complications. One of my IL’s kids needed multiple surgeries and therapies beginning at birth for a previously undetected genetic condition as well.

I personally don't think that you need to be of great means to give a child a good life. But I do think that whatever your means are, it's important to spend less than you earn so that you are continually able to save some money. Emergencies happen, and the fallout of not having some degree of ability to weather them can be extremely stressful on kids. Can you fit a second child into your life in a way that you could still have a little extra to put away at the end of the month?

Also what happens if the new child (or even existing child) has an emergency? Let’s say your new baby is born needing surgery or existing baby breaks their arm. Will a medical situation destroy you? If you were planning on breastfeeding, what happens if you end up needing to buy formula for whatever reason? Never assume that the offers to babysit are guaranteed or permanent if you were hoping those would replace daycare costs for 2. Can you cover daycare? What about the little extras like being able to go to experiences or put the child(ren) into a club, sport, hobby, school trip? They’re not necessary but it can help! You mention going back to school when the child is in kindergarten. Will you be able to afford school? What about if it’s delayed because you’re now waiting for the younger child to go to kindergarten?

the formula concern is huge! A family member of mine had a baby and was planning to breastfeed but the baby had tons of allergies and ended up on prescription formula that was $400 a month. Baby was also premature and stayed in the NICU so the bills were higher then expected and there were other costs like a hotel across the street from the hospital (mom couldn't emotionally handle going home without baby, so understandable) and lots of take out. You never know what's coming with a baby and you should be prepared for some expensive hiccups

it happened to me. i had every intention of exclusively breastfeeding. that went out the window on day 3 of life. my milk never came in! hello $100+/mo expense. as much as it sucked, we had enough wiggle room to accommodate the addition to our budget

My question in this situation is: what impact would it have on the child you already have? I don't think it's inherently selfish or irresponsible to have children while low income, but I do think there's a responsibility to already-existing children that simply cannot be understated. My responsibilities to my children can be boiled down to two items: provide for their present and provide for their future. It sounds like you have the present day figured out (although I'd encourage you to beef up your emergency fund). My question is: what about the future? What is your plan for retirement? Will you and your husband become the financial responsibility of your children when you can no longer work? Would being one and done enable you to save for your child to go to college, buy a house, etc.? These are the things I would think about in your position. They're the things I think about as a high income earner when deciding on having another child.

That first question is a very important one.

Im more cautious about having kids because I am a chronic worrier and if something happened where my husband or I couldn’t work, I want to make sure we’ll still be ok. I knew a SAHM who had a wonderful life and two sons - her husband unexpectedly had a stroke at 32 and passed away, leaving her entire life turned upside down and she had to worry about finances in addition to her grief. I have a nest egg. And I want my child to have a certain lifestyle and be able to go to the zoo and eat lunch there without checking my wallet. This is why I’m sticking with one child. But that’s me. I think more than how much money you have, it’s about how you and your husband cope with stressors a lack of money brings. If something did occur and you’re financially struggling, is your marriage strong enough to hold it together? My husband’s family was constantly struggling and the kids were hyper aware they couldn’t afford certain things and the parents constantly fought. My husband always thought if they had enough money, things would be different. My family was well off but the marriage was rocky anyways because of my father’s selfishness. So even though I didn’t have to worry about paying for college, I wasn’t any happier. If you and your husband are dedicated to loving your children and giving them a wonderful life, that makes so much more of an impact than money. ETA: a child should not be privy to discussions about family finances and worry about money when they have no control over it - that’s for the adults. Same for any problems in the marriage.

As a widow with young kids, if you want kids get life insurance. Adequate life insurance that will pay off the house and provide several years of living expenses.

Yup. I am a SAHM and not worried about this specific issue(at least monetarily) because mt husband has a 500k life insurance plan. I also have one for 100k. It's not enough to live off of forever, but it's enough to get us set up and to give me time to find a source of income.

If you dont mind me asking, how many kids do you have? When did you become a widow? Im expecting my second son and although ive always dreamt of having a big family(maybe even 3 kids), the thought of something happening to me or my husband scares me so much. Life is full of unexpected turns and I dont know how Ill survive emotionally with more than 2 kids and their dad or me not being around.. im at a point where im thinking maybe 2 is just enough .

Lost him when I was about 7 months pregnant with my second. 3 years out now and actually considering having a third by myself. I don’t want a shit hand in life to prevent me creating the family I want. But I don’t live in the USA so I also have access to a year paid maternity leave, job protection, subsidised childcare and I own my house outright so it’s not such a risk for me.

I was going to say, my answer to OP will be very different if she's in the USA vs. another country. I'm so sorry for your loss. ETA: I just looked at your profile wondering if you were in Australia... And it looks like we live in the same city!

Haha made me look back to see identifying info and it becomes pretty obvious that I spent my childhood moving across the country!

Oh I missed that!. Tbh it was just two seconds of swiping through your active communities list. I promise I have no idea who you really are 😅

Thank you so much for answering . Im in canada and do have similar options minus the house part.

I’m so sorry for your loss. My friend lost her dad and despite his flaws, he had the foresight to get life insurance and made sure they didn’t have to stress about funeral costs and other expenses. I looked into it but it costs $500 a month per person and currently it’s not something I can afford at this time and I feel so guilty 😞

with all due respect, you might benefit from some additional research! life insurance rates obviously depend on a variety of factors, but I personally have a very generous policy from a reputable nationwide provider and it costs $42/mo. it *will* increase later as I get older, but it won't reach $500 per month for another couple of decades. eta: I'm in the U.S.

Do you mind sharing with me the provider? Getting kinda overwhelmed with options and the broker who my friend recommended I realized only worked for one company and only presented us with whole life options.

just sent you a dm!

$500/month sounds like whole life. You very likely do not need this. Term life is significantly more affordable. I pay $350 *per year* for $500,000. It expires in 25 years, meaning it will only pay out of I die in the next 25 years. My kids will be in college by then, so I won't need it anymore.

That is insanely high. My husband & I are currently looking into it & have seen rates as low as $15 a month. Are you sure it wasnt $500 per year?

I’m Australian so we can access it in our compulsory retirement funds (superannuation). Here I would say a parent cannot afford to not have it.

A term life insurance policy for $500k or so should be much cheaper, assuming the person insured doesn’t have any serious health issues.

That doesn’t sound right. Similar to another commenter, I pay $43/ month for a policy with a high payout. It’s a 65 year policy which is probably more than I need. If you’re in your 30s, you could likely get away with a 30-40 year policy or even less. What you really want is enough coverage to last until your kids are out of the house. Life insurance becomes less critical once you’re at or approaching retirement age, although I guess that depends on your overall financial situation. My husband’s policy has double the payout of mine and his premium is around $100/ month. He wanted a higher amount because he’s the breadwinner and wanted to make sure I could pay off the house and still have enough leftover for us to be fully stable, provide for the kids, etc. My policy is intended for him to be able to pay off the house if he wanted but more so for him to be able to hire whatever help he needed to maintain the household if the kids were still small.

You should go through an insurance broker instead of looking up policies yourself. Rates were so much cheaper through our broker than the ones I’d found myself. Broker was free to us, I presume they are paid by the insurance companies. My husband didn’t even need a physical, but I did because I was pregnant & obviously had rapid weight gain in a short period. We both have $1M policies in the US for 25 year term & each pay around $50/month. Obviously rates will vary based on your current age & health. I couldn’t imagine not having the policies, it gives me so much peace of mind.

It was through a broker but it wasn’t term, it was whole. That probably explains the price difference. I don’t know why he presented us with the more expensive option when we’re both healthy and in our 30s. It sucks for term that it’s “use it or lose it” but I didn’t know it was so much cheaper Do you mind sharing which provider you went with?

Our agent was with New York Life (we are based in MA so I have to assume they are national despite the name). & the insurance carrier we wound up getting the best rate with for both of us was Corebridge Financial. I try to reframe my mindset around it, because I really hope that I am just throwing away this money & see no ROI because it means that means my husband & I are both still around. But it gives me peace of mind to know that my family will not have to struggle financially at all if something were to happen to either my husband or I.

Thank you!!

I’m going to go against the grain and say that for every child I bring into the world, I want to make sure that I can provide stability and safety. Living in poverty is often not stable or safe, it can be very unpredictable. It is difficult to escape. Living in poverty is associated with poorer outcomes in a variety of ways, from health to socioeconomic status, to an increased likelihood of experiencing violence. I couldn’t in good faith *plan* to have a child that I can’t comfortably afford. And by comfortably, I mean, I don’t need to worry about cutting necessity X to afford necessity Y. I couldn’t plan to bring a child into a situation where we might struggle to find food or reliable housing, or appropriate healthcare. I don’t mean that to make you feel bad, but you asked for opinions and I assume you want honest opinions.

I'm with you. It stresses me out to see posts in our local moms group of women trying to figure out what jobs they can work to stay home with the kids, look for food banks, taking kids on instacart runs, because things have turned out to be more expensive than planned. It also seems like OP thinks she can bring in additional income, so it appears she could bolster their financial decision a bit prior to deciding to have another child. I don't know why this has to be either/or but it might involve working more to be in a place to comfortably pull this off - on the front end, not waiting until an emergency happens when you might not be able to work more.

Omg the local mom groups are so sad. It’s hard to overstate the amount of mental and emotional freedom one has as a parent when you’re financially secure.

I also didn’t understand why she doesn’t just work more now to save for an emergency/second child if she can easily work more hours. It also sounds like the husband can get a better paying job but just hasn’t yet. It seems like they are choosing to be lower income than they need to be.

Or go to school now instead of later when it's harder with more kids

I read this as they would rather spend more time as a family than have more money.

I assume that is the case too, it just seems illogical if they really want another kid.

Right which is all well and good except I assume that's the choice a lot of people made and then they're scrambling in the event of an emergency. Granted, we're homeowners which makes things more expensive when things go wrong but we've had at least $15,000 in unexpected expenses since my son was born. Why wait on building the emergency fund?

Agreed

Life happens and life can be expensive. What if OP can't go to her once a week job? Will being off post partum sink them? What if OP/husband gets ill and can't work either temporarily or permanently? What happens when they're aging and have no savings or retirement plan? Will this fall on the kids? If so, is that fair? What if baby 2 has a special need? What if OPs parents need care? Are they able to afford it on their own, or will OP be on point to care for them? These are some of the questions that need contemplation when choosing to have another child. My grandmother had 10 kids and were financially poor. They were rich in love though. That said, seeing them be old and have no money, need 24/7 care but not be able to afford it is awful.

As someone who grew up in a family of 6 on one $30,000 income, it was a lot and I’m still traumatized. My family unfortunately did not do much to provide comfort for us kids, all extra income was spent on them. I was bullied for being poor, and almost didn’t get out when I couldn’t afford to take the ACT and SAT nor pay for college applications. My school counselor came to my aid and paid for me so I could go to university. Make sure you prioritize your kids. You may live in poverty, but your children don’t necessarily have to feel the effects like I did. Focus on their future too. Just because someone is smart doesn’t mean they can afford to even apply for college.

How old are you? I feel like that is a huge factor. If you are young enough to get yourself in a better position before having another kid I think you should. If you feel like you don’t have a lot of time, it would probably be a different calculation. If you don’t even have money for emergencies, you’re not financially “okay.” Do you have anything saved for your retirement? I don’t think it’s a good idea to have another kid until you have some kind of safety net. What about when your existing child wants to do activities that cost money, or go to college? Or what if they have a medical emergency? What if your husband loses his job? I don’t think you need to have an insane amount of money to have a happy kid, but I personally would not choose to have a second kid if I didn’t feel that I was prepared sufficiently for the one I already had.

Also, how many children does OP already have? The implication seems to be just 1, but she’s not said explicitly

I agree with other comments that you don’t need to be wealthy to have a child. However, it seems that you and your partner are one bump in the road away from being in a really bad situation. You mention that you have cheap rent, but that it could change at any moment. What is your plan if your landlord substantially raises your rent? You mention that you don’t have much saved up for emergencies. What happens if your family vehicle needs to be repaired? If your spouse gets laid off? If you have a health crisis where you have to be hospitalized? You also state that you and your spouse come from low income families. If you already have a child/children, are currently low income, and are wanting another child/children this is just perpetuating the poverty cycle. Why not give the best to your current child/children now instead of stretching your limited resources even further, making your family more vulnerable in the scenarios above? I think that this is a situation where you need to put your family’s survival and wellbeing over your personal desires.

TIL low income people having children is 'perpetuating the poverty cycle'. The way capitalism is designed, there are always going to be people who earn below average.

yeah some of these comments don’t pass the “poor people should not have children” eugenics vibe check. I’m all for making careful decisions but yikes, low income people don’t have to ask permission to have families. I came from a financially unstable family and my husband a well off family and his mom still uses $$ to try to control all her children in ways that are more toxic than the scarcity I grew up with. Working hard to provide for your kids and give them unconditional love are the most important things.

I'm getting similar vibes. And even middle class Americans are often one expense away from a bad situation. Most don't have an emergency fund. If you lose your job and health insurance or have a medical emergency or other surprise expense, that can be life changing regardless of income. Of course it's more difficult in very unstable poverty situations, but you don't have to make six figures to provide a stable, loving home.

You summarized it perfectly. This comment section is a little nuts and really reflects a lot of the things that are broken in our society.

I find it shocking how common that sentiment is online. And not even just “you shouldn’t plan to have kids you will struggle to feed” but like “you shouldn’t have kids if you can’t pay for their full college tuition and lots of extracurriculars, it’s irresponsible to let your kids take on student debt.” 

I think if you are struggling, adding a kid is selfish and only going to make you struggle more.

If you are intending to go to college, you will be even less capable of doing that when you have 2 babies. Your husband might find a new job, but he may not. There is no reason to rush, you are going to make life harder on your babies. Get yourselves financially secure, than have your second if you want one.

I think you and your husband should have 1) family health insurance 2) life insurance and 3) a healthy emergency fund. I don’t think being well-off is necessary for children but I do think people should have the above things before having children… or having more children. Good luck and I hope you’re able to have a second (:

I personally don’t think life insurance is necessary but I 100% agree on health insurance and an emergency fund.

Really? I disagree. I think life insurance is SO necessary. It’s realllly cheap when you’re young (30s). If anything happens to you or your partner then you’re covered to raise children until they’re 18, pay off your house (if you own) and maybe even not work and raise your kids. I personally believe in belong extra cautious. Both my husband and I work and if anything happened to either one of us, it would be an emotional tragedy and a financial one. I’d rather rid myself of the burden of the financial part

It’s not that I think it doesn’t have any value, I just don’t think it’s as essential as the others. But I also think its value can really depend on your circumstances.

Life insurance is so expensive!! We were quoted $500 a month per person. Hubby and I both make decent money but not enough to toss out $1000 a month

You are either incredibly unhealthy or need to shop around more. Typically less than 50 per month.

Turns out it was the latter as so many commenters helpfully made me aware. I was being quoted whole life insurance numbers and not term. 🤦🏻‍♀️

What was the coverage and was it term or whole life insurance? That sounds insane to me for term life insurance.

My husband and I have a $1MM policy and my husband and I each pay $55/month. So idk haha doesn’t sound right on your end

Yeah I found out via comments that I was being quoted for life instead of term 🤦🏻‍♀️ do you mind sharing which provider you went with? Gonna start my search afresh.

Pacificlife!

Thank you!!

You can be low income and still be a happy family with fond memories but I guarantee that your current children wilI become aware that you/they are low income as they grow older. Just to clarify, I do not believe that children should be privy to any discussions about their parents’ financial issues. I grew up low income and, although my mother tried to keep any struggles hidden, I was fully aware of the hardships. My mother was also a waitress and child support was inconsistent. Yes, she was loving and affectionate when she was around. Yes, she worked her butt off to try to get me things I needed or wanted but there were times when she wasn’t able to; Times when the main entree was plain rice without any meat or protein; Times when I wished I could get the trendy clothes to fit in; Times when utilities would get turned off; Being aware that there was no college fund nor would there be any assistance toward college from my mother. My husband and I work hard and save while still living a comfortable lifestyle. This was very handy when he was laid off. It took 5 months to get hired in his current role but we did not have to worry too significantly about our financial status and we still had money leftover for emergencies and savings by the time he got hired. As I grew older, I understood more about generational poverty and that it can be a continuous cycle for many families and their children, and children’s children. The anxiety of being just one accident, medical event, layoff away from having to skip meals or living in your car/shelter with so many children would make me unravel. I would never want any of that for my child or any descendants. I personally would wait until there was more financial security and stability, middle middle-class imo, with a decent savings.

My only problem with this is, there's sooo many people in poverty. Way more than there are middle middle-class. The way this country is set up is to keep poor people poor. Some don't have the luck or resources to get well paying jobs. It doesn't seem realistic for everyone who's poor to avoid kids, if statistically they are likely to stay poor anyways.

I get what you’re saying. My statement above is my personal opinion and was mostly based on my individual experience and how it impacted me. At 40, the financial/food insecurity and other experiences contributed to childhood trauma and ongoing anxiety. Same for my husband who also lived in poverty in his younger years. Just based off the info in OPs post, they are just at the US’s median income for middle class which is ~$74,000, but they earn too much for many of my states resources (idk where they live) like WIC and SNAP, which would be below $50,000 for a family of 4. So yes, they are technically middle class and not poverty level income ($30,000 for family of 4 in TX). But I bet they and others in that same earning range may feel low-income and possibly struggling with financial/food insecurity, especially if they live in a medium or high cost of living area. It sucks and I wish that more could be done to help these individuals and families. OP says that they don’t have much money for extras or emergencies but she can work extra shifts. What if she is the one who gets hurt or ill and unable to work? She says she intends to finish college and her husband plans on finding a better job. Why not wait until one or both of those goals are met to provide that stability and security for their current and future children? Why not break what can be a generational cycle?

Yes, that's a big fear of mine where I make ends meet but we are not prepared for any emergency. It's terrifying. I qualify for SNAP at 30k a year for a two person household (soon to be 3). It's a help, but honestly $200 they give me a month covers maybe a week or two worth of groceries. My mother and I grew up poor, but I never was left wanting for anything, and am not a materialistic person at all. We had cheap vacations (camping, still my favorite), and never had to worry about having enough for basic necessities. She worked hard to get to where she is now, which is probably about middle class. I don't have any negative associations being poor, I am also trying to work hard to go to school while working barely full time (30 hours) so that I can have enough time to be with my kids, I don't want to be working so much I don't see my kids. It sucks that making more money means less time with my toddler. There is a lot of anxiety being poor and I pray that I don't pass that on, even though I know kids know exactly what's going on even if you don't say it. I just hope to pass on the same values that money doesn't buy you happiness, but not having enough definitely takes away from general happiness in life. It's hard out here, I get what you're saying.

When deciding to have a child/ children I looked at what lifestyle my husband and I wanted to give them and what would make us proud to be their parents. It was not solely about: i want a baby to fullfil a need. The most important was: I want a baby because we provide them with everything we think they need for the rest of their lives. This means when they are little we can provide them with love and care, food and warmth, a wonderful extended family, the chance to go to daycare and learn from other babies, but only 3 days because my husband and I can both work one day less and still live in our home. We also have enough to save some for them on the side to which they will have access when their 18. We want to have time to take them to the library and to a museum or the zoo. We want them to be able to choose to do at least one extra curricular actvity. Etc. Those are all things my husband and I find important but this will be different for everybody. I would think about what you find important to provide to your children and see if you can provide that for a second child. If the answer is yes id go for it, if the answer is no then i wouldnt. I believe being a good parent is making the decision that is best for your children, not for you personally (within a reasonable range of course). Best of luck with your decision!

What is your actual budget? Do you have enough to “make ends meet”? If your rent is low enough that you have enough for food etc and aren’t cutting corners on things like their health or a healthy diet, and you also even have the ability to scale up your income, you’re good. Not having savings or an emergency fund would be too risky for my financial anxieties, but it sounds like you could scale income up if needed anyway. Obviously don’t stress about money out loud to your kids. A lot of places define “low income” differently.  I’d say your marriage and parenting style really matters more than anything. Also plenty of people live below their means. Kids/babies really don’t cost much in the early years anyway. We don’t do any “extras” and all the best things where we live at least are all free. At that age your babies benefit more from your loving attachment, nursing, time outside, etc. We made the choice to switch to a lower income and make some huge lifestyle changes to be able to have a SAHP. We do have savings but are also barely in budget. I could go back to work as needed, and will once all our children are 3 or older. The only thing I might say is that, since you have close friends willing to sit and/or a husband that can take over on days off, maybe consider taking classes part time and/or doing something to advance towards a career now. Even as a SAHM with a solid career, I think it’s important to stay current. 

I grew up in poverty, and it was not good at all. My childhood was unstable and I now have an anxiety disorder. I think you should take classes now, even part time, if you want a second kid. Have a plan for a better future; maybe your husband can do school at night?

Some of it depends on what kind of lifestyle you want for your family. I want to be able to afford to take my kids on awesome vacations. I want to be able to buy them cars when they turn 16. I want to be able to financially support them while they get established as young adults. You’ll have to decide what’s important to you and if you can provide a life that’s more inline with your wants to 2 kids. I personally wouldn’t have another kid until being more financially stable.

My family was never well off.. and I have many siblings. I had the best childhood I could ask for, my mom was always around and everything was homemade, taught me to be crafty and self sufficient, our idea of a vacation was a few days camping (AND IT WAS THE BEST!) I got on my first flight at 18. If you guys are OKAY there’s no reason you need more to have the family you want. In my mind, if you have the support system and desire to give your kids a wonderful life you can always make it happen.

I love this. Camping was the best! Sleeping in a tent is a major core memory. Now we have money and we do cottages and it is nowhere near the same fun. Living humbly and modestly allows you to focus on what's important. Family.

Totally agree, I’m not saying bring loads of kids into an unstable situation. But as OP stated her partner is going to look for a higher paying job and it seems she is comfortable living within her means and that is the most important part of all this.

This is romanticizing poverty in a really uncomfortable way.

lol nobody said we were living in poverty. We lived within our means as should everyone, I never said we were dirt poor, I said we were never “well off”. Maybe keep your negative assumptions to yourself. You do not need to be rich to have a happy and cared for family.

I didn’t respond to you. I responded to another comment that was romanticizing poverty. I didn’t say anything to or about your family.

I see. How exactly was their comment any different than mine 😂 they said they loved camping and it was a core memory

I think you’re being obtuse. I was very clearly responding to the point about living “humbly”.

That you called families going camping for fun "poverty" is what's REALLY uncomfortable here... Check yourself.

That’s absolutely not an accurate characterization of my comment, and you know that. I pointed out that your comment that’s extolling the virtues of a simple family life is romanticizing poverty. Nothing about camping, which is also a rich people thing.

How is your health insurance? Do you have savings to handle unexpected medical expenses or would you get a break on those through gov't programs or assistance through a payment plan/hospital reduced bills to make them affordable? I only bring this up because I have very good PPO health insurance and have spent \~$1k in the past 30 days on out of pocket expenses for myself and my daughter that could not have been avoided. One more kid will increase the likelihood that you encounter more medical expenses. Can you swing that? What if family flaked on childcare. What would your backup plan be? We have our kid in a normal daycare, nothing fancy and it's $30k/yr. Food, diapers and toys are not the big ticket line items for kids IMO. Childcare and healthcare are the big ones. My husband also wants another kid but I keep reminding him how expensive our current one is and I'm not prepared to try to fit another in our budget right now.

I wouldn’t say absolutely but I would say you need to be a bit more financially stable - take some time, work some more shifts, make sure you have 3 - 6 months + expenses saved up as well as an emergency fund. Not having lots of money isn’t the worst but being poor is hard on kids.

Honestly I think this would be an awful decision. Kids cost a lot think about what you won’t be able to do for your current child. Food might get tough to buy, they won’t get to do sports or activities they want you won’t be able to send them on some of the field trips etc. and with how the USA is going with education you wouldn’t be able to hire a tutor or anything to help if your child struggles and needs any extra help. It is incredibly selfish to have another if it would make you not be able to provide for the current child’s needs. This includes their emotional support. Things could also happen like major illness that could leave you completely destitute. I would wait until you could feasibly pay for quite a few extra things and bolster your savings account. Once you have that down then it could be considered in my mind. We live in a high cost of living area but I waited for my one and done until we could put 14 and 22% in our retirement each, both cars were paid off and I could build a college account for my current one (in an account she could use for other things if they don’t want to do college). That way if something happens to me or is she won’t go homeless.

I agree with you that I think planning ahead for the needs of the existing child first and having some savings for emergencies is really important. It doesn’t mean OP shouldn’t ever have another kid, just that they are setting their family up for success if they prepare a little more first.

I don't have personal experience here, but I had a friend whose parents were "not rich but okay" until the dad died. The mom had no formal qualifications, she only got low-paying jobs and because she had to support 2 kids she would've never had the chance to go back to college to improve her situation. She permanently slept on the couch so that the kids could have their own bedrooms in their small appartment. I remember her not having 10 $ to spare for my friend to go on a overnight trip with the scouts, and the scout leader ended up paying for it so that my friend was able to come. I had a parent die young, but financially it was fine because both of my parents had a high enough individual income to support the family on their own. TLDR; Either one of you could die or become disabled / unable to work, and you have to be able to support 2 kids on either one of your incomes alone.

All I have to say is, get yourself and emergncy fund that would cover expenses.for at least 6 months if either if you were out of a job first. Even if that means you work your butt off and take on overtime hours do make sure you have enough money saved. Life hits hard at the wrong times and not having a good amount of money saved can comed bite you in the butt. Me and my partner were doing so well fianncially with our first kid that when we got pregnant with the 2nd it wasn't a big deal. Then life came and smacked us in the face and drain the little savings we had. Lots of unexpected expenses popped up that had to be dealt with regarding our house, my partner lost his job (no fault of his own) and had a terrible time trying to find another one and had to take a job with a massive pay cut because bills were due and unemployment was not enough to pay anything. Then we had so many dang unexpected car issues. All these expenses came at the same time so we racked up the credit card debt in order to pay. None of this stuff could wait until we actually had the money. We went from very very low debt to a buttload of debt. I couldnt get a job becasue we had no one to babysit our toddler and paying for childcare was financially not an option. All that to say, things changed VERY fast. We were never rich but we always had money left over after paying bills to spend on whatever and to put into savings. Not anymore. It will be a while before we are back to that place and guess what? Life is still hitting us with more crap we need to figure out how to pay for but can't afford. I cannot stress enough to make sure you have money saved up to cover the unexpected. Once I get back into the workforce that is going to be my primary goal. These last few months have really shown me just how scary it is when you don't have strong security blanket to catch you when things happen.

Thank you, this was the most eye opening comment. I hope things get easier for you soon ❤️

I am glad that sharing my experience has been helpful to you. My current situation sucks but I am just gald we have enough to pay our important bills. Theses series of unfortunate events has definitely been a lesson learned on how quickly comfortable life become uncomfortable.

Are your kids ok with being super broke? You’re saying you don’t have money for extras, but also want to bring an extra entire person into the household that you have to pay for, so I’m wondering how you would pay for this child. Being lower income isn’t the issue here, it sounds like literally being able to afford a child. I don’t think it’s selfish and irresponsible given your income, I think it’s selfish and irresponsible given you’ve told us you can’t afford another baby and can choose not to have another baby.

I personally grew up in a not well off family and even as a kid I still understood that I couldn’t have some of the things my friends with more financially secure parents could. It was stressful. My parents constantly fought about money and I remember when I broke my arm at 10 years old crying because I thought we were going to lose the house or a car and it was my fault since my parents argued even more at that time (about the expensive medical bills). My parents did great in the regard that we always had food on the table and a roof over our heads but I still stress about money because that’s just what I’m used to doing. It made me grow up to be terrified of getting married and getting pregnant before I/my partner were financially stable. I think there’s a difference between having to “figure it out” because you get pregnant on accident, something happens to father of the baby, or if having a baby just means not living as luxuriously as you’d like to (such as giving up vacations, delaying buying a dream home, etc) versus planning to have a baby knowing that if *one thing* (car accident, water heater breaking in your home, etc) went wrong you’d be scrambling to buy food the next week.

I don’t know how low income people do it, frankly. For milk you can breastfeed, for clothes you can buy used, baby gear doesn’t have to be stupid expensive.. but the HOSPITAL BILL.. to have my second child was over $10,000. I live in the constant knowledge that out of pocket maximum for an individual is over $9000 now, family out of pocket maximum is $17000. I grew up lower middle class, but in ONE calendar year my brother got attacked by a dog- 55 stitches to the face on spring break. Homeowners had no homeowners insurance, they were also poor AF, poorer than us, so trying to sue would have been next to useless and taking food outta THEIR kids’ mouths. Then in October I was diagnosed with pediatric brain cancer. Medical bills, time off of work, driving back and forth to the hospital, meals away from home. And those two events pushed us from being “ok” to struggling for YEARS. What is your plan.. if two members of your family need a LOT of medical care in one year? :(

If someone qualifies for Medicaid, their healthcare is MUCH less expensive, if they pay anything at all.

I don’t think you’re selfish at all for wanting that, but I do think you guys should start making these changes that you’re talking about before you start trying for a second. Is there any factory type work in your area? My husband is in production and he works A LOT, but it’s a great job with great pay, raises every 6months, and excellent benefits. It’s also great that you both have close family that’s willing to help!! Honestly that’s key. I worked in a restaurant with my first and I had it planned with my aunt that she’d watch my son 3x a week so that I could work. Restaurant work gets judged but it’s very lucrative. If you could utilize your resources (family) and work more than 1 night a week, that would probably make a huge difference for you. Have you ever bartended? That’s another step you could take. The money you make as a bartender vs the money as a server is astronomical, and the hours between the two really don’t differ that much.

We have lots of factory’s here my husband is thinking about switching to that type of work after summer is over.. And the only reason I’m only doing one day a week right now is because I JUST went back to work last month and I was scared of leaving baby (I had bad PPA) I do feel ready to take on more days a week. I hated bartending when I was younger but maybe now that I’m older it wouldn’t be as scary!

That’s totally understandable. I say give it a go! I felt the same way- they threw me behind the bar right at 21 and I hated it because I felt like I had no idea what I was doing. But I learned “fake it until you make it”, just smile and nod yes like you know what you’re doing, and ask questions later lol. I also wanna mention that the majority of the commenters here probably have so many negative things to say because they look down on shift work. They don’t respect it. But that shouldn’t stop you. Their money isn’t greener than yours just because they are salaried workers at some big company. The way I see it- if you keep working in restaurant and your husband switches to factory, the opportunities are endless! My husband has started working 3 overtime shifts every week because we want to buy a house soon. I work in a school now, but I have no problem going back to my roots and picking up shifts at the restaurant for extra money. You can definitely make it work. Stay positive!

I grew up in a wealthy household and ended up with a bankrupt suicide for a dad anyway. I can see there's a lot of people here who grew up with less sharing their experiences: I promise you, there's plenty of ways to get financial trauma about financial security.  That said, please put thought into your retirement and ensure your children aren't your retirement plan. The most serious financial trauma a parent can inflict is the kind that follows the child into adulthood and never goes away. Plan to be financially stable eventually, or it will become their problem. And by plan I mean plan, not hope.

Just doesn’t seem fair…

How will you pay for medical expenses, such as birth? Can you afford formula if your child needs it? What will you do if you can’t afford rent? What will you do if your car needs repairs? You can ultimately do whatever you want, but I personally don’t think another child is a good idea in your situation.

I think people deserve to have children regardless of income, however I would never recommend someone have additional kids if they were struggling. Kids will have the desire to be part of and participate in other activities that will cost money as they get older. It can be difficult to never have the money to help your children explore various interests as they grow. If you’re relatively young, you have time now to improve your financial situation before having more kids.

Not being able to take part in social activities is definitely hard and isolating. I don’t think school is sufficient. There was an article about wealth/HHI and not being able to take part in society that stuck with me. Some areas have free activities-I certainly did not grow up there and there were no scholarships or anything available-and so local resources definitely need to be able to take that into account too.

I agree. I know a lot of people with younger kids will think “I won’t put my kids in those activities anyway” but like…your kid will get older and will have interests and skills that may differ from what you as the parent of a baby or toddler can see right now. Their interests and skills may be different than your own interests and skills, too. Even small things like being able to send your child to a trampoline park with friends for $25-40 or sign up for rec baseball for $100 for the season (to say nothing of the $3000+ we pay for club soccer). No, your kids don’t need club sports, but they deserve to have interests and experiences outside of your family and school. Yes, some communities have scholarship programs for lower income families but not everywhere.

So I think there's two different kinds of low income... low income because you're irresponsible with money, and low income that is self-aware and responsible. You sound like the latter type, so if you're comfortable in your income bracket and feel like you have the necessities covered, I wouldn't say you're selfish or irresponsible to have another child. I do think there's a happy medium, though. Could you spend a year pinching pennies and try to save up enough to buy a home, even if it's a small manufactured home on a piece of rural land, that will mitigate the potential risk that comes from renting? The market is crazy, but there are many small cities and towns out there that have safe and affordable options.

That’s actually our long term plan. My parents have land that we’re planning to put a mobile home on eventually. We have great credit and everything we just want to beef up savings first. I didn’t mention it in my post but we blew through a lot of savings because I took 9 months off after baby was born because I had bad PPA. I do plan on building savings up again before having the next baby in case I’d need to do that again.

I think that you could maybe try to save up some money before having another. If you’re living in a place where you’re one rent increase or one major expense away from eviction then it’s absolutely not the time to have a baby. Just make sure you can handle it financially with another child if something goes wrong

I think this depends on your overall financial situation, what COL is in your area, and what kind of help you can receive from your families in an emergency and also just on a routine basis. If you pick up more shifts, that means you and your husband could combined bring in $70-80k. I would call that middle income, not low - but it depends where you live. Things that you don’t talk about but matter: - What’s COL in your area. $80k in ruralish Iowa will go way farther that $80k in Seattle. - What do your other expenses look like, including possible upcoming big expenses? Utilities, car payments, car maintenance, medical debt, budget for food, clothing, gas, etc. - You mention you don’t have much savings, what will you do if an emergency should happen… because it will eventually. - When all of your bills are paid, what’s leftover and what can you do with it? Are you living paycheck to paycheck? - What does the future look like for your current child in terms of higher education and what you can provide? How does having a second child change your plans? - You mention wanting to go back to school. How are you going to afford that and how does having another child impact that plan? - What are your bigger/ long term financial goals (buying a house, new vehicle, saving for retirement, etc) and how does having another child impact those? - I respect the desire to be home with your kid, but why are you only working once a week? Why not pick up even one more shift? If you got pregnant, how would you save for needing to be out of work for several weeks to months? I assume with one shift a week you’re only bringing in a few hundred bucks a month but at your income, I think that few hundred bucks matters even if you say it doesn’t. I think it would be unfair for anybody to say “you don’t make enough money to have another kid” because that comes off as “poor people shouldn’t procreate.” But I think there’s a difference between “low income but stable” and “unable to provide basic necessities.” What you don’t want is to be in a situation where you are struggling to feed your kids, that causes trauma.

Honestly, if you're debt-free, you're likely way ahead of most childbearing Americans. A college education doesn't guarantee a well-paying job (or any job for that matter). Having a child is a decision for your family to make, not your friends. It sounds like you manage money well and you know how to live within your means. Please teach those skills to your kids, as our world needs more responsible people like you!

I disagree with you about being debt-free. Owning a home almost always comes with debt. College can come with debt. Owning a vehicle. Debt isn’t bad if it’s an investment in your future. Not everyone wants to own a home or go to college, and that’s fine. But being debt-free doesn’t inherently mean you’re doing well.

While I agree with your statement on debt, I disagree with your examples. Debt you can easily pay off can be a good investment. All debt does not fall into this category, and is structured in a way that it rarely does. In your examples, this person doesn't "own" their home or car- the bank does. A car loan is probably the worst "investment" a person could make, given the interest rates and true cost. If college was a good "investment," the US wouldn't place student debt forgiveness at the forefront of election campaigns, as college educated people would have high paying jobs that allow them to easily pay off student loans without issue. A mortgage is usually a necessary debt, however, in the current housing market, most people are better off renting than becoming upside down in a mortgage on a home they cannot afford. I'm definitely not saying the above things are bad, they're not. I'm saying that going into debt to obtain them doesn't afford the "success" we are made to believe they represent. A huge number of people who have these things are swimming in a debt they may never be able to repay. I know far more people who went to trade schools, community colleges and affordable state universities, or simply learned skills on the job who are truly financially independent than people with paid off private educations and high level degrees. In my opinion, money management skills that OP discusses are a far better indicator of success than education level, homeowner status, or the vehicle one drives. It's definitely an unpopular opinion in this status-driven society.

I agree with some of what you said about debt and disagree with other aspects. Regardless, I don’t really see anything in OP’s post to indicate they have particularly good money management skills. Not spending beyond your means is obviously important, but that is the bare minimum. Not being financially prepared for an emergency does not demonstrate skill to me.

I personally find it incredibly selfish to consciously have more children when one emergency or unexpected need for funds can make your life and lives of your children much more difficult. It's also incredibly selfish to expect your family to be the ones to babysit because I'm assuming you can't afford daycare. Kids absolutely know when they don't have what their peers have and often get bullied because of it. Use your head here rather than your emotions and wants.

I think it’s fine if you have a plan and know what lifestyle you want. We’re poor and get by alright. It has its stresses. As long as kids have their physical needs met (clean, fed, warm/cool, clothes that fit) and you are raising them with love and attention I would not worry. Two children is normal. People who say you need tons of money for kids are talking about daycare costs plus a wealthy lifestyle. I think it’s easy for those of us who grew up lower income to raise kids without a lot of gear, etc.  It’s your decision not your friend’s. Two children seems totally normal to me regardless of income. But you should not go by my advice either but what you and your husband feel is right for your family.

I grew up low income and it traumatized me! HOWEVER, I also grew up with alcoholic parents who didn’t really spend quality time with me. I think the combination of those 2 things gave me so many complex’s and I now have a weird relationship with finances. Maybe it would have been different if my parents gave more of their attention and love. I can’t be sure if my issues stem from lack of bond or feeling of going without as a child.

It depends. I honestly had to take a $30k pay cut because I couldn’t do crazy overtime as a mom. But that qualified me for Medicaid/Wic in my state and care4kids saves me $700 on daycare so I honestly have more cash now than before. I still went along with having a second. I’m at $55k. If I didn’t have a house and savings it would be tough to afford rent but thankfully I had that before kids

Even if you're rich today you could end up going broke tomorrow. 🤷‍♀️

If you have a tik tok, check out shawtgal49. Her whole thing when she started was about her family going down to one income (of $35k a year) when she became a mom. She just had her second a couple months ago. She really shifted my perspective on what babies actually need as far as material stuff and also how to stretch a dollar!

She’s an influencer so keep that in mind.

You’re right. She makes money from her social media now so it’s a little different but in the beginning I think they were really struggling.

If you are both making 35-40k a year that put you right at the median household income in the US. Since you don’t have debt and your rent is cheap it sounds like it is doable in your situation. If I was in your shoes I would build back some savings and then try to get pregnant because you will want some emergency funds as a cushion. 

Agreed after all these comments I think that’s what we’ll do:-)

You say you’re not stressed about an emergency popping up but have you thought that through? What if the emergency is something medical that prevents you from working at all? You say you can always work but that’s not a guarantee in life, something can always happen. What will happen if you can’t pay your rent even if it’s cheap? Can you survive on a single income or will you be able to move in with family? Will your children be affected? (Assuming you’re in the US) can you handle medical bills, especially if either of you loses your jobs? If you do both end up working more, how will your child and future children adjusting to having parents that are never home? Will your family members be able to look after them full time and help them with homework and stuff like that? Just saying you’ll work more if something happens sounds like you haven’t thought it through.

Girl do it. Yes it’s harder when you’re on a lower income but if you want to love another soul, I’m sorry how this may sound, but the universe will find a way. It’s smart that you’re thinking about it though and yes run your numbers and get the support you need. There are so many people who don’t want babies these days, if you do want one and you are to care for him/her then do it girl!

Having kids isn't just for the rich. I think if you are confident in your ability to budget, and you have established strategies for coping with unexpected expenses, and your mental health and your marriage is sound, go for it. You never know what the future may hold, good or bad, so don't let it stop you from having the family you both want. 

The implication of demanding that people be well off before having kids is that poor people don't have the right to have children, which is of course an awful and wrong thing to say. If you and your partner want to have another kid and you're ok with the consequences of what that will do to your finances, then you have every right to go ahead and have another kid. Children aside, though, your financial situation sounds way more perilous than you seem to think it is. Being one emergency or rent raise away from a crisis means you're in a crisis right now because either of those things could happen at any time. What's more, you say that you can always work more if you need more money, but what is that crisis is that you have a traumatic birth with the next kid and can't work for an extended period of time? That's simply not a reliable way out. Disconnected from your question about having more kids, it would be a really good idea for you to focus on improving your situation right now. Your husband getting a new job would be a great start, then work on getting enough savings that you could weather a few bumps in the road. Good luck!

Maybe I'm missing something, but 70-80k doesn't seem that low income to me? It's close to the median household income in the US. Do you live in a high cost of living area? There are a few comments on this thread that seem to be under the impression that you will be bringing this new child into a life of poverty, but you are no where near the poverty line... Regardless, I think think your friend should shut up about your reproductive decisions. It's really no one else's business. This thought that only rich people should be having multiple children feels a bit eugenics-y to me. Most of us didn't grow up rich, and we're doing just fine. I don't think having another child is something you should at all feel guilty for contemplating.

I believe the issue is OP isn’t actually making that amount right now, she’s only working once a week.

It’s not that high, it’s half that right now because she’s not employed full time.

I plan on working more soon I was one day a week this month because I JUST went back to work and was scared of leaving baby. I took 9 months off work after baby because I had PPA and didn’t feel I could leave my baby. Once I go back to working more we will be back to 60-80k (I’m a waitress so it depends on the year tbh) A lot of people are acting like I’m in poverty. I’m not. I live in a semi rural area where 40-50k is livable. Though I’m aware the way the economy has been we need to work to make more in coming years.

I grew up poor. It never occured to me that we were poor until I was much much older. We always had food, toys and clothes. They were never brand new clothes and toys and the food wasn't always the best thing in the world but we had it. Those things never bothered me until I got older and kids would make fun of how my clothes looked. Everything came from a second hand store or from our elderly neighbor. We rarely had anything new and we were okay with food because we qualified for government assistance. It was probably a bit easier socially because majority of the other kids around me were poor too. Not as poor as us but still low income. As long as you can afford to keep a roof over your head, your utilities paid, and can keep an adequate amount of food in the house for another child than go for it. If you are struggling just ot have the basic necessities you definitely need to wait.

Yah - I mean - idk how to compare “poor” with you but my family didn’t have a lot. My father passed when I was young, my mom struggled with mental health and we generally lived off his death benefits - our childhood was rocky at times (not because of not having money because of other events out of our control). But overall my childhood was actually pretty awesome. My mom did everything she could to give us a wonderful childhood. We always had a roof over our heads, a safe place to live and food in our stomachs. My mom hide the financial stress from us until I was out of high school and she started to explain what was actually going on. So I wasn’t till I was older that she started asking me for money. Which I did give her. I’m grown now and my mom has made adjustments for herself which is probably the only reason we are still talking. My fathers death effected me and my mom’s relationship MORE then any financial issues. I also got out of poverty - I’m in college debt now but I have a really well paying job and can now support my mom. My husband also grew up poor - and they kept having the lights turned off poor - but he was loved. We both were loved and we both are stable people who have well paying jobs. Poor doesn’t equal abuse. I’m just under the personal belief that parents shouldn’t ever make it known to their children that they don’t have money. Let children be children. I think that’s what mainly saved my childhood - not knowing the struggles that were going on. So, IF you think you can give your kiddo a safe and loving home with the basic needs met I don’t see why you shouldn’t have another kid.

It doesn’t sound like you will stay low income, since you are going back to college. My parents had very little when I was young. My dad went back to school twice in the first 5-6 years of my life. I remember getting excited about getting a new toothbrush. But, my parents were able to provide everything my sister and I needed. I didn’t realize how poor we were until I was older. With my dad going back to school the second time, he was able to secure a higher paying job. Every time we moved, it was always to a nicer house. My parents even helped me pay for college. My mom worked as a secretary until I was in high school. She then became a travel agent. I got to watch my dad climb the corporate ladder. My brother was much younger than my sister and myself (we were 9 & 11) and my sister complained when he was older that our parents gave him more than we ever got as kids. Not only were my parents well off at this point, they owned several acres and my brother was put to work around the house & property. I pointed out that she and I never had to work as hard as our brother. My husband also grew up in a low income family. We met & married in our 40’s and had our first child last year. I’m a SAHM but we can still afford luxuries like new cars and vacations. All that to say, there’s no clear answer to your question. You are able to work more if there’s an emergency and have help — that is a good plan.

In the U.K. dying at the fact that an annual income of 80k a year is considered low income, £40k a year in the U.K. makes you a high earner, collectively my fiancé and I make £50-60k a year and live a life of luxury as far as I’m concerned.

You guys don’t spend $30,000+ of it on healthcare. 😩

It really depends on where you live in the US! We’re only lower income because I’m working less which will change soonish! The cost of living is rapidly changing in my state which is my main concern (and why we might just move states eventually!)

I honestly bring everything down to numbers. Start now and spend the next 6 months putting away money equal to formula and diapers each month. If you can’t put away that amount, then you aren’t ready. If you can, then you just created a small emergency fund which is great to have.

So my husband came from a low income family and well ALL his siblings including himself make 6 figures with one of them breaking 7 figures and they are kind & welcoming people and love their father and their mom who passed was their absolute world, me looking in on the outside can DEFINITELY see the low income trauma it had on them and how they worked extra hard to not do that to their children.

Do you have the means in case there is medical emergency putting you out of work, or if you current or second child has special needs and lots of therapies? I think that’s the main one for me.

I'm in the same boat! I'm working on my career so life me be better for us in the future and I want a small age gap, so I feel like the time is running out for me to have another before You're living better than some I know with high income (but high debt) you sound like you know your limits. Babies aren't as expensive as people warn you of... I think the teenagers are where we really go broke 🤣

That’s my issue I would love a small age gap. I just don’t want to tip us into stressful territory. I think I’ll build back some savings before trting for the next one.

My god 🤦‍♀️ If he leaves you to fend for yourself I won’t feel sorry for you. I never understood why people brought children into this world knowing how hard it is to survive. At least try to get into a better situation first jeez

Woah there! A little aggressive! I never said “should I bring another baby into poverty” I said low income. Huge difference. And I have a pretty awesome husband so I don’t think he’d leave me to “fend for myself” who hurt you?!

I say go for it but in the meantime try to save like crazy so you have a little cushion. Don’t make a huge deal of finances to children. Never let them know you are struggling

Don't let anyone shame you from wanting to add to your family. From what you described, you have a better setting to bring children into than many upper middle class families.

I'd say go for it. Definitely do what you can with what you have to save and build a financial cushion but if you want another child in your heart you can make it work. Lots of people raise kids on low income.

I mean my parent were at the poverty line. Dirt poor for years.  They were super young.. my dad worked for ups long shifts and my mom babysat kids while watching me.  I learned so many incredible skills from them. They are my role models and learned how to stretch a dollar, how to work hard despite the circumstances,  how to be resourceful.  Now my dad retired at 53 with a pension and my mom makes a pretty petty 6 figures without a college degree.   Because of thier work ethic and grit I definitely inherited I have been able to make great salaries without a college degree. I was offered 85,000 by the time I was 26 with no school. You're friends a fucking moron.  I know people born into rich families and let me tell you... drug usage and no direction in life is common.

But just because you turned out okay and your parents made it out doesn’t mean that’s the average story for most in poverty. To say OP’s friends are morons for being realistic is a stretch.

I think the biggest question would be how your partner feels about it. If you're both on board with the idea of a bigger family and sacrificing certain things to provide sufficiently for two children without either child suffering, I'd go for it. Babies really don't need very much, especially if you retained everything from the first child. I say this as a new mum of two, still driving my same tiny two door Yaris, still using the same old pram, still making my kids wear hand me downs - if the children are happy, healthy and have their basic needs met, you will make it work.

What, so only well-off families can have kids now? What is the minimum amount income for reproducing guilt free? Your ‘friend’ sounds really negative and unsupportive. I think if someone is living literally in poverty or relying on handouts and decides to have more kids than they can afford them yeah, it’s a problem. But a moderately comfortable family deciding to have another child and being called selfish? That’s ridiculous. For what it’s worth I grew up poor. My Mum was a single parent to four kids and tried on the government for money (she didn’t plan for it to be that way, life happens). I had a wonderful childhood. Yes I missed out on school trips sometimes and I hated not having fashionable clothes but there was always magic and laughter and love. I would absolutely not wish my existence away because my Mum was poor!

I grew up poor, but didn’t know that until I was an adult. I think it all has to do with how your parents feel about money. My mom felt/feels confident with money. She is financially responsible and financially savvy. So I grew up understanding money is just a tool, when the tool is dull (you’re poor) it takes more creativity than if the tool is sharp (you’re rich). One of my closest friends has 5 kids. Single mom because her Irish Catholic husband left her unexpectedly. Anyone can end up poor at any time. She says “I’ve raised kids on 10,000/year and I’ve raised kids on a 100,000/year. Sometimes I think we’re happier when we’re poor!” Waiting to be wealthy enough to have kids or encouraging others to wait solely based on income feels so gross to me. Poor people are deserving of families too. We’re low income, but comfortable and we want another baby. Being low income does not make you unfit to be a parent or even a bad parent. Our household is happier than all of our friends who make significantly more money than we do. Part of it is that because we work less, we spend more time together. I didn’t realize I feel strongly about this, so I’m sorry for the long response! Last thing: my husband and I both have graduate degrees. Neither of us have ever been able to find a job that makes having those degrees financially worth it. We have a much higher earning potential in the trades than we do using our degrees. So that’s what we do and we work a schedule that allows us to trade off being home with our kid. I’m not working to send her to someone else all day. Doesn’t seem worth it.

Low income people have many kids all the time. Just look at other countries. As long as the child is loved, they won’t even realize they aren’t financially well off for a long time.

This is really, really not true.

So people in the low income bracket have no children? WTF of course they do.

I was speaking to the point about kids not being aware. Of course they are.

Okay, here's the deal your friend is not getting; you do not have children because you can afford them. You have children because you love them and cherish them, and they need a place on this earth. You adjust your spendatures and your budgeting to fit your family, not your family to fit your budget. Now, if you were like us and legitimately did not have room for another kid and no possible way to adjust your living style to fit another kid into your home, then yeah, I'd say don't have one just yet. But if you have the space and ability to adjust your life style to fit another kid, then go for it! I am the eldest of four kids. We were low income. But my family did just fine, as long as we kept to a budget. I got Aikido classes, we were homeschooled, we had technology in the house, and while yes I missed out on a few things here and there (latest tech, latest trends, a room to myself,) I had plenty of benefits. I had pets (fish), I had friends, I had field trips to the zoo, I went to lots of free community activities that my friends all went to, I went to church, I used public transit to travel around the city and get where I needed to go, I got a grad dress, I got the cap and gown, I got new clothes when I needed them... My siblings also got new clothes when needed, especially since I often wore mine out... And we always had food on the table to fill our bellies. Sure we had days where we were barely scraping by, but... *shrugs* We also learned from it. We learned how to budget wisely, how to save money when we had next to nothing coming in each month, we learned about taxes, we learned about sales, we learned about making our dollars go further by spending less... By the time I was 17 I knew how to buy two weeks worth of groceries and keep the bill around the 80 dollar mark. I impressed my mother one day, because she asked me to go buy some groceries, and gave me her card, and said "don't go too far over a hundred if you can help it." I took it as a challenge, took the list, and went off script from our usual brands a little because there were other brands of things that were on sale for half the price of our usuals, and I came home, and my mother looked at the food, looked at the list, noticed I had grabbed one extra (a treat for her and Dad that she hadn't even asked me to pick up), asked me what the total was, and I told her "78 dollars." She grabbed the receipt while her jaw dropped. When she looked back up at me in complete shock, I could see how proud she was of me. I always knew where I stood with her... because she was always real with me, especially when it came to our finances. It's not at all selfish to have multiple children when low income. If anything... If done right, it is a valuable teaching experience. And given time, diligence, patience, and hard work, low income situations can change. Especially when you pay attention to and apply for things like child health benefits and other income support programs that are applicable. I can't tell you how many papers I have filled out in the last 17 months to get applicable benefits to keep my child clothed, but it has done us a massive favour, especially in times of need, like when my husband lost his job. He got a new, better paying job though as a plumber, and we are almost 100% debt free. We just have a little to pay off on a credit card, and that's it. But once that's paid off, and we've replenished our savings, my husband wants to buy us a few luxury treats, like a Roku. And in a couple months, I have friends moving into the area (rich friends) who are intent on building us a house on their dime, and gifting it to us. And I get to design it. I look forward to having storage space, and room for our family to grow!