We teach it so you do the whole game for 1-1,5 hours. Meaning: all positions and situations will be drilled in a playful manner. For example: starting with grip fighting standing for 2x2minutes then we do the same seated vs standing, then seated vs kneeling, then back and we add some details to every round building a skill while having live resistance for the whole class. At the end we do some sparring but not too much since the people already „sparred“ the whole class. I feel don’t rolling to much free but in a constrained scenario significantly improves skill level and the last 2-3 open rounds will be much more technical since people already played the whole game before and are more conscious about what the goals of specific scenarios are like.
Yessir!
Skills will emerge by their own if you promote positive learning enviroments!
We have also Coaches who keep doing it a little bit more in the information processing area where they show the technique and the students are following but all our coaches work hand in hand and try to promote the one same thing: supportive learning enviroment. This gives students a broad access to many teaching styles and find out which they favour!
>Skills will emerge by their own
Will they?
I'm not against ecological training but the application for Jiujitsu is being overblown IMHO. The ideas are good to help people develop movement but a guard passing system won't just emerge from CLA or differential training. At some point you'll have to explain what you're doing and why.
It's weird how people can talk about how intricate and unintuitive the sport is in one breath, then in the next say "skills will emerge on their own."
I think what a lot of "eco" coaches may not realize is that this works pretty well for beginners, but that their advanced students are consuming instructionals and other similar content outside class. Effectively, the teaching of technical detail is just getting offloaded to YouTube and BJJ Fanatics.
An amusing thing to observe is that in any post about eco you will have half of the critics saying "eco is great but is only for advanced practioners", and then comments like yours that say that eco is better for beginners.
Yeah, that's a fair point. I actually do believe people's anecdotes that eco is great for advanced practitioners - but I think that's partly because they are supplementing with outside-class instruction that teaches the details. Then they have the experience to apply those new techniques in the context of constraint-based practice. Functionally they are still drilling, it's just that they are drilling something they learned without their coach and with resistance.
My view is that "solutions" are only going to help people who have felt the "problems" in the wild, with resistance. Instructionals and techniques can be useful to people who are at the point where the technique triggers an "Aha, that's how you solve that problem. Brilliant". A beginner is so overwhelmed with problems that the focus on techniques and solutions is pretty dull and irrelevant to their game. So that sort of echoes your point.
> I think what a lot of "eco" coaches may not realize is that this works pretty well for beginners, but that their advanced students are consuming instructionals and other similar content outside class.
so? I would expect any upper belt, regardless of how they train, to watch instructionals.
So read the very next sentence to see why I think that means that a "no technique" ecological approach is just fooling oneself. I'll say it again: it's not that your students are progressing without being taught techniques. It's that _you just aren't the one teaching them._ Do you watch many instructionals where the guy doesn't actually explain what he's doing and why?
Obviously most upper belts watch instructional content to refine their game or get exposed to new ideas. That's exactly what I'm saying.
I am with you - the more advanced the people get the more they will question the task - which will bring up the point of them to think about it and find solution for a given problem. If they are aware about the task then they might also start adding their own constrains. Maybe the game is: Use 2on1 variations to gain access to the upper body to bring hands to the matt. For the more advanced people we add a goal like if you have upper body control play a dilemma of submission or sweep. Now the advanced student might start adding his constrain of only using armdrag variations to come to a triangle. The less experienced person uses any 2on1 variation they like to get double underhooks to get them off balanced or swept.
Now as a sidenote: we also have information processing classes where people can just observe technique und repeat it to learn it. we also have reverse class room models where students come to the coach with a idea what they work on and the coach helps them. our whole idea is to optimize learning experience to give the student the best way for them personally to get better AND to have fun.
Obviously like u/MrPigeon says below: More experienced practitioners will start adding their own techniques by watching tape etc. and thats great cause this leads to a big variety of techniques which students can always discuss and learn and teach in the reverse class room/drill classes. but the ecological way of teaching gives students (especially lower lever) a braod understanding of the sport as well as a lot of training with constrained live resistance - which i see as very valuable.
One thin i think is a problem with this approach is that people tend to see a either or situation when you can basically do different methods under one roof
Also: How many high level people do you know who only drill? most of the better people i know are using similar approaches without calling it ecological blabla. Most high level people absorb technique just by training and being in contact, finding out, experiment in constrained ways with resistance etc.
even John Danaher and the Mendes Bro's teach their athletes like this.
Its really not about going against each other but optimizing and creating optimal learning enviroments.
Does this mean that you're hitting nearly all the positions in a single class? Like I would expect to work closed guard, butterfly, mount, back control, turtle, front headlock etc all in the same class?
Kind of - By teaching the holistic Ideas of BJJ broken down very simple you can use them in any scenario so regardless which position we always have the same problems:
Movement (Angle,Connection)
Structure (Frames, Balance,Connection)
Connection (Weight, Chest to Chest, Chest to Back)
etc.
So regardless which postion in BJJ you look at these Factors are always part of it and there are several systems to approach them.
Things like inside positioning, Attacking the limbs to attack center of mass to then attack limbs again will always emerge.
So any situation in bjj consists out of ideas like that - so i take the topic butterfly guard to teach connection and base and then progress to back attack to explain the importance of center of mass control - then i go to standing and teach ideas like attacking the limbs to gain access to center of mass by showing arm drags or single legs then i show guard passes to show the idea of movement vs balance manipulation. it really doesnt matter which position i show most of the time people figure out how to to a armdrag by them self, how to use 2on1 grips to access the upper body, how to use attacking the head to get to the back or the legs - and so on.
PEOPLE LOVE IT AND THEY GET THEIR WORKOUT DONE! Anything else like specific techniques and so on is shown in a reverse classroom model where students can drill what they like to learn by approaching the responsible coach who is there.
I am happy to share more of those ideas or discuss your concerns here :)
This is a class I teach right now. The topic is open guard and staying connected. But as you see it also has elements of passing pinning and taking down in it.
Starting Game:
Stand Up Game mit 50/50 Grips Focusing on angle by bringing forehead to colourbone (which I call colourbone exposure and control of inside space between chin/chest/shoulder) // 2 Min
Going to the knees into a Butterfly Guard:
What we don’t have is the agility of our legs
What we have is our legs as hooks to keep them on their knees. Same as in wrestling we attack the limbs with 2on1 variations to gain access to Center of mass to have even more control.
Game: 2x2min
Same game as on the feet
Goals Bottom:
* 2on1 >
* Color bone exposure (occupy the inside space between chin & chest) >
* Gaining access over their Center of mass to then manipulate their structure and gravity by pulling them on us or brining their hands to the mat( Main Goal!!)
Goals Top:
* Color bone exposure and bring their back to the floor (body lock)
* Getting around the knees
* You cannot take the knees of the floor for longer than 2second (otherwise it’s to hard for bottom)
Now I explain what happens if they stand up.
If they stand up they deny us the upper body but we can either wrestle up or use our 2 feet’s as two hands to entangle them with hooks
Game: 4x2min change partner after round so they get different feedback and reactions
Bottom Goals:
* keep two on one grip or upper body connection
* keep inside position by entangle them as they stand up
* Offbalance them and bring butt or hands to the Matt
Top Goals:
* disentangle and strip grips always
* get around the knee line with v grips on their shin
Explaining a snap down and the relation of head and feet positioning (later transfer the upper body lower body message to butterfly guard > heisting/leg attacks etc)
Stand Up Game 2x2 min
mit wrist grip (50/50) Focusing on angle, 2o1 & Color bone exposure //
+ new goal:
* touching the back of the knee in a meaningful way (if achieved the other person does 5burpees)
* Getting around their shoulder line
Going back to butterfly and explain relationship of upper body lower body connection
Show shoulder crunch and arm drags and heisting as short examples to give ideas - no detailed instruction
Explaining going supine and getting put into supine
Explaining chest to chest positions and inside position
Showing a forward shift for the following game
Game 2x2 min
Top:
* keep the body lock and go around the legs to a pin
Bottom:
* Come to neutral butterfly guard
Controlling Center of mass by doing a cranial shift (controlling the upper body and head)
Showing how to defend a body lock and let them drill it for 5 min since they almost sparred 45 min
Game: 2x2min
Bottom:
* Get to butterfly guard
* Denying cranial shift
Top:
* Keeping chest to chest position
* No hands connected (to keep it simpler)
* cranial shift
Open up the game: 4x3min
Goals bottom:
* Keep them in your guard
Goals top:
* disentangle and get around their guard
So we learned:
The importance of angle
Attacking limbs to gain access to Center of mass
Protecting or gaining Inside position
The importance of chest to chest and head control
All the other stuff like armdrags sweeps etc will happen by their own and the changing between positions leads to a fun class for the student.
What my students want: no warm-ups, 20 minutes of technique (submissions only, which they drill precisely two times then stare at me), then 45 minutes of live grappling where they do the same dumb shit over and over again. What I know they need: 10 minutes of grip fighting to warm-up, 20 minutes drilling what they already know at least 10 reps each, 20 minutes of new technique and drilling, 10 minute situationals, bow out and open mat. Drillers are killers, but everyone hates it!
Haha it’s so wild to me that people don’t want to learn and drill new things. I’ve seen those people and it seems they hit a skill gap at some point and never grow by doing that
The idea most fun class or the ideal class I learn the most? The most fun class for most people after the 6-12 month mark is going to be open mat rolling, so I will go with ideal best for my development.
It is 100% a dead zone rolling class, or positional sparring as some call it.
Same as an open mat. You get with a partner for a 7 minute round. 3 minutes offense, 3 defense, With a break between offense and defense. When you’re on offense you pick any position you like, generally dominant but doesn’t have to be. Such as back control, mount, side, but you can choose guards. You set the rules like reset after an escape or sub or sweep or pass. Then you roll from there and reset every time your established ending point happens. Then, your parter is on offense and they choose.
It gives you the ability to get a significant amount of time in offensive positions. It was pivotal for me at my early blue belt stage. If you think about being newer, the amount of sheer minutes you spend in mount or on the back of a similar skilled opponent is next to nothing compared to the minutes you spend passing and retaining and progressing and such. With one dead zone class, you can get literally 10x the amount of time attacking then you would in two weeks of normal class. Then, when you do take that same or higher color belt’s back, you’ve been there
I don’t like warm ups, I think it should be your responsibility and mat space available to do so before class. I usually get to class 30 min early I move stretch and grab someone for a flow roll.
Class 30-45 min of technique
Then open mat until you want to go home.
1.5 hours.
(30 minute open mat/warm up BEFORE class).
30 minutes of positional training with the goal set of what were trying to achieve in the class.
10-20 minute technique involving the position being trained AFTER the positional training.
Sparing for the rest of the class.
* 10 mins athletic gymnastics/wrestling style warmups so you break a sweat.
* 10 minutes flow wrestling/rolling.
* 20 minutes drilling whatever it is you're or the class is working on.
* 10 mins positional sparring
* 10 minutes wrestling/judo.
* 20 mins rolling.
* 10 mins cool-down, stretching, and hanging with the crew.
Never done to a class like this but one can dream
We do 2-2.5 hour classes, 10 minutes of warmup, 2 techniques 20-30 minutes each, followed by positional rounds for the same technique and finally open rolls, 3 to 6 minutes rounds x 5, depending on the day. Wednesday we only roll, no technique.
1,5h - 10 min warm ups + 5 ish min individual warm up (somebody needs to put in extra time to warm up the neck/shoulder/hips etc) 15 mins throw of choice speed drilling, 30 min technique, and 30 min gauntlet or free sparring (from knees or standing, whatever you prefer, but we prefer standup)
Start doing a positional sparring for 15 min then show some technique for that position maybe 10 minutes. Then again 15 min positional sparring in the same position with the newly gained knowledge. Then show techniques for standup, maybe 10 min. Drill those techniques for maybe 10 mins. And we then do standing sparring only for like 20 minutes. The rest of the class ist free rolling where start standing until the 2h are full. All of this is in no gi.
Sounds very similar to how our Gi classes run. We normal do self guided stretching warm up. Then the first 5-10 is a constrained game related to the techniques to come. Gets us more warmed up, get moving and get thinking. Couple connected techniques, from the more foundational upwards. (recently was bottom closed guard armbar to triangle to omoplata) then 2nd half is 6 minute sparring rounds.
Our No-Gi are usually led by the owner and from my limited experience seem more eco-based for the first half/40 minutes and then the remainder 6 minute rolls.
Not sure if its the eco approach and/or that I'm a FNG at the whole BJJ thing that I find myself lost a lot during the no-gi stuff since I find it more advanced concepts
We do positional games 1 minute rounds for 20 minutes switching partners and stuff and roll for the last 5 min rounds. I’d rather hour and a half and do 15 1 minute rounds positional 15 3 minute rounds positional and then an hour of live rolls
At my gym each class is 60 mins and it goes like:
1. 5 min warm up
2. 25-30 mins of technique and drilling
3. Remaining time sparring
Those who wish to spar more can do so for another 20 mins before the next class starts. I like this and just recently I started to spar more after class. But then again, this is the only gym I've been in and I've only been doing bjj for 3 months.
2 x 6 mins standup, starting slow and building (acts as a warmup)
2 x 6 mins guard passing rounds (10 second break to switch partners)
6 x 6 mins rounds (10 second break to switch partners)
10-20 mins Q&A
> Gordon
Hey, for those of you who don't know him, Gordon Ryan is Nicky Ryan's brother. Gordon is also a grappler, like his brother.
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I just joined a bjj gym. Their classes are 60 minutes: 30 minutes techniques and 30 minutes sparring. If you want to warm up before class it’s up to you, same thing with stretching. I have only attended a few adult classes so I have no experience with the rest.
It suits me fine, I have been training martial arts for a while and know how to warm up before classes and stretch after classes. I like that the time is focused on BJJ and not different warm up exercises, especially when you participate in back-to-back classes.
Now the only thing I need to sort out is how can I attend as many classes as possible while keeping my job and family.
We have the usual 5-10 min warmup, 25-35 min technique, rest of the hour is rounds...and i stay after for bonus rounds
Personally I like long/unlimited rounds with trusted training partners because that's where the real stuff happens...like go until one of you quits or it just seems like time to stop. I know that's not for everybody.
I say "trusted training partners" because I'm 50 and there are some 22 year old white belts that I don't really want unlimited time with.
More open drilling! I feel like BJJ is always "do the technique of the day" or "rolling", never "just takedowns" or "just sweeps" with low resistance which is a huge part of advanced wrestling training, getting reps in for YOUR moves.
5-15 minute warmups, with situational drilling for the longer warmups. 30-40 on a few variations of the same technique, and then five or six 4-minute rounds with no breaks. Roughly 1.5 hours
Another favorite class is “work on your stuff” instead of “technique of the day”. Once every few weeks is great for this format.
15-20 min on 1-2 techniques that I'm currently working. Include in that time for zero resistance slow drill, talk through, and some ramped resistance (25-30%).
20-30 on positional rounds, maybe 3min top and bottom or switch back and forth depending on how fatiguing it is.
30-40 on full rounds of 5-10min.
10-15 on workshopping anything that showed up in the full rounds.
Go home.
Thats like 75-105min which sounds about right. 75 min would be very short.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Tachi Waza**: | *Standing Techniques* | [here](https://youtu.be/YEfluR58NMo)|
|**Ne Waza**: | *Ground Techniques* | |
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
10 minute warm-up practicing your own stand up with either guard pull and / or takedowns. 30-40 minutes drilling new technique. 10-20 minute positional rounds with moderate resistance. 30 minute sparring.
The gym I go to....
0 minutes warm-ups. Stretch before class if you want.
45 minutes drilling and instruction (average 3 techniques)
30-45 minutes rolling - Sometimes the first few rounds are positional rolls based on move of the day
I love it here.
Playwrestle for warming up, some full rounds to see where we at, and based on those rounds trying to come up with problems to solve in games/tasks/situations etc. Sharing and asking for ideas to focus on while solving these to guide my focus in action. Throwing in some randomness with eyepatch, earplugs, blindfolds, shoes/shoe-no shoes/no shoe etc. variables to create noice as in differential learning. 1.5h is enough for me.
I only teach a nogi class right now and its roughly
6-10 x 90 second rounds of positional rolling with constraints.
10-15 minutes of techniques from the position we're focusing on.
6-10 x 90 second rounds of more positional rolling from the same position
10-15 minutes of techniques from the position we're focusing on.
Short Q/A and then rolling for the rest of the class.
Let me work my weaknesses or stuff I’m interested in. Gimme feedback. Let me test ideas.
Or give me some new challenges to work through.
I don’t need 42 techniques every class and two reps each.
45 minutes Open technique and 1hr open (positional) sparring. Positional sparring cause full sparring is mostly useless imo and open technique because I know most of the shit that would really help my game or the shit I'm just straight up bad at its more so just a case of grinding to improve them at this point
Just start rolling or positional sparring with objectives. I don’t wanna do fucking 45 minutes of cartwheels and piggy back rides before I actually start technique
Make warm ups positional rounds with no subs, after that technique and more positional rounds based on that technique, end it with free sparring or sparring from position that was focused of class that day.
for "classes" positional sparring based on the tech/situation we are about to focus on for 10 minutes as warmup. Super light. 20ish minutes drilling based on that. 30 minutes open roll or positional sparring live
for my favorite then then 10 minute drilling with 50% then rolling for 40-50 mins
My professor has been focusing a lot more on positional sparing rather than open ended rolling. The idea being that you get a chance to practice specific techniques and positions in sparing conditions. This forces you to practice things you aren't good at.
Open ended rolling tends to lead people to play their same game over and over and limits growth into new skills and techniques.
30 minutes individual technique (bring your own technique) with each getting 3 min on their own and then switch. Then positional sparring for another 30. Coach is still around to guide and give pointers. Fast track to new techniques of you put in the work at home.
I wish/want a class solely on "here is the position for this week we will work from". Let me know in advance and I can come with my own techniques/concepts top and bottom and others can do the same.
To me this is an advance class, not here is 3 techinques and variations (basically longer sequences).
If I can't have that I'm fine with just an open mat.
For me? 1,5-2hrs of 10min rounds. For my students: 5-10min warm ups, 45mins of 2-3 techniques and drilling, 30 mins of rounds.
2hrs of 8 min rounds is our Open Mat. I love it.
Awesome, man!
I like the amount of time for technique. It’s more than enough for it to be practiced
This is what I would say was best for me. Coach Matt at Silverfox has a great morning class in this format.
🦠🦠10 MINITE ROUNDS?! Talk about separating the men from the boys! 😅
You had me at the start. 2 hours of 10 minute rounds is heaven
We teach it so you do the whole game for 1-1,5 hours. Meaning: all positions and situations will be drilled in a playful manner. For example: starting with grip fighting standing for 2x2minutes then we do the same seated vs standing, then seated vs kneeling, then back and we add some details to every round building a skill while having live resistance for the whole class. At the end we do some sparring but not too much since the people already „sparred“ the whole class. I feel don’t rolling to much free but in a constrained scenario significantly improves skill level and the last 2-3 open rounds will be much more technical since people already played the whole game before and are more conscious about what the goals of specific scenarios are like.
Very eco-friendly
Yessir! Skills will emerge by their own if you promote positive learning enviroments! We have also Coaches who keep doing it a little bit more in the information processing area where they show the technique and the students are following but all our coaches work hand in hand and try to promote the one same thing: supportive learning enviroment. This gives students a broad access to many teaching styles and find out which they favour!
>Skills will emerge by their own Will they? I'm not against ecological training but the application for Jiujitsu is being overblown IMHO. The ideas are good to help people develop movement but a guard passing system won't just emerge from CLA or differential training. At some point you'll have to explain what you're doing and why.
It's weird how people can talk about how intricate and unintuitive the sport is in one breath, then in the next say "skills will emerge on their own." I think what a lot of "eco" coaches may not realize is that this works pretty well for beginners, but that their advanced students are consuming instructionals and other similar content outside class. Effectively, the teaching of technical detail is just getting offloaded to YouTube and BJJ Fanatics.
An amusing thing to observe is that in any post about eco you will have half of the critics saying "eco is great but is only for advanced practioners", and then comments like yours that say that eco is better for beginners.
Yeah, that's a fair point. I actually do believe people's anecdotes that eco is great for advanced practitioners - but I think that's partly because they are supplementing with outside-class instruction that teaches the details. Then they have the experience to apply those new techniques in the context of constraint-based practice. Functionally they are still drilling, it's just that they are drilling something they learned without their coach and with resistance.
My view is that "solutions" are only going to help people who have felt the "problems" in the wild, with resistance. Instructionals and techniques can be useful to people who are at the point where the technique triggers an "Aha, that's how you solve that problem. Brilliant". A beginner is so overwhelmed with problems that the focus on techniques and solutions is pretty dull and irrelevant to their game. So that sort of echoes your point.
Yeah for sure, that makes sense to me too!
> I think what a lot of "eco" coaches may not realize is that this works pretty well for beginners, but that their advanced students are consuming instructionals and other similar content outside class. so? I would expect any upper belt, regardless of how they train, to watch instructionals.
So read the very next sentence to see why I think that means that a "no technique" ecological approach is just fooling oneself. I'll say it again: it's not that your students are progressing without being taught techniques. It's that _you just aren't the one teaching them._ Do you watch many instructionals where the guy doesn't actually explain what he's doing and why? Obviously most upper belts watch instructional content to refine their game or get exposed to new ideas. That's exactly what I'm saying.
I am with you - the more advanced the people get the more they will question the task - which will bring up the point of them to think about it and find solution for a given problem. If they are aware about the task then they might also start adding their own constrains. Maybe the game is: Use 2on1 variations to gain access to the upper body to bring hands to the matt. For the more advanced people we add a goal like if you have upper body control play a dilemma of submission or sweep. Now the advanced student might start adding his constrain of only using armdrag variations to come to a triangle. The less experienced person uses any 2on1 variation they like to get double underhooks to get them off balanced or swept. Now as a sidenote: we also have information processing classes where people can just observe technique und repeat it to learn it. we also have reverse class room models where students come to the coach with a idea what they work on and the coach helps them. our whole idea is to optimize learning experience to give the student the best way for them personally to get better AND to have fun. Obviously like u/MrPigeon says below: More experienced practitioners will start adding their own techniques by watching tape etc. and thats great cause this leads to a big variety of techniques which students can always discuss and learn and teach in the reverse class room/drill classes. but the ecological way of teaching gives students (especially lower lever) a braod understanding of the sport as well as a lot of training with constrained live resistance - which i see as very valuable. One thin i think is a problem with this approach is that people tend to see a either or situation when you can basically do different methods under one roof Also: How many high level people do you know who only drill? most of the better people i know are using similar approaches without calling it ecological blabla. Most high level people absorb technique just by training and being in contact, finding out, experiment in constrained ways with resistance etc. even John Danaher and the Mendes Bro's teach their athletes like this. Its really not about going against each other but optimizing and creating optimal learning enviroments.
Yes, as I've said before, I don't know anyone who got good without taking ownership of their own training.
Does this mean that you're hitting nearly all the positions in a single class? Like I would expect to work closed guard, butterfly, mount, back control, turtle, front headlock etc all in the same class?
Kind of - By teaching the holistic Ideas of BJJ broken down very simple you can use them in any scenario so regardless which position we always have the same problems: Movement (Angle,Connection) Structure (Frames, Balance,Connection) Connection (Weight, Chest to Chest, Chest to Back) etc. So regardless which postion in BJJ you look at these Factors are always part of it and there are several systems to approach them. Things like inside positioning, Attacking the limbs to attack center of mass to then attack limbs again will always emerge. So any situation in bjj consists out of ideas like that - so i take the topic butterfly guard to teach connection and base and then progress to back attack to explain the importance of center of mass control - then i go to standing and teach ideas like attacking the limbs to gain access to center of mass by showing arm drags or single legs then i show guard passes to show the idea of movement vs balance manipulation. it really doesnt matter which position i show most of the time people figure out how to to a armdrag by them self, how to use 2on1 grips to access the upper body, how to use attacking the head to get to the back or the legs - and so on. PEOPLE LOVE IT AND THEY GET THEIR WORKOUT DONE! Anything else like specific techniques and so on is shown in a reverse classroom model where students can drill what they like to learn by approaching the responsible coach who is there. I am happy to share more of those ideas or discuss your concerns here :)
THIS IS A GREAT VIDEO ABOUT THE WAY WE APPROACH TRAINING: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hck9q9xQ\_sU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hck9q9xQ_sU)
Awesome! Do you mind sharing some of the games you use in class?
This is a class I teach right now. The topic is open guard and staying connected. But as you see it also has elements of passing pinning and taking down in it. Starting Game: Stand Up Game mit 50/50 Grips Focusing on angle by bringing forehead to colourbone (which I call colourbone exposure and control of inside space between chin/chest/shoulder) // 2 Min Going to the knees into a Butterfly Guard: What we don’t have is the agility of our legs What we have is our legs as hooks to keep them on their knees. Same as in wrestling we attack the limbs with 2on1 variations to gain access to Center of mass to have even more control. Game: 2x2min Same game as on the feet Goals Bottom: * 2on1 > * Color bone exposure (occupy the inside space between chin & chest) > * Gaining access over their Center of mass to then manipulate their structure and gravity by pulling them on us or brining their hands to the mat( Main Goal!!) Goals Top: * Color bone exposure and bring their back to the floor (body lock) * Getting around the knees * You cannot take the knees of the floor for longer than 2second (otherwise it’s to hard for bottom) Now I explain what happens if they stand up. If they stand up they deny us the upper body but we can either wrestle up or use our 2 feet’s as two hands to entangle them with hooks Game: 4x2min change partner after round so they get different feedback and reactions Bottom Goals: * keep two on one grip or upper body connection * keep inside position by entangle them as they stand up * Offbalance them and bring butt or hands to the Matt Top Goals: * disentangle and strip grips always * get around the knee line with v grips on their shin Explaining a snap down and the relation of head and feet positioning (later transfer the upper body lower body message to butterfly guard > heisting/leg attacks etc) Stand Up Game 2x2 min mit wrist grip (50/50) Focusing on angle, 2o1 & Color bone exposure // + new goal: * touching the back of the knee in a meaningful way (if achieved the other person does 5burpees) * Getting around their shoulder line Going back to butterfly and explain relationship of upper body lower body connection Show shoulder crunch and arm drags and heisting as short examples to give ideas - no detailed instruction Explaining going supine and getting put into supine Explaining chest to chest positions and inside position Showing a forward shift for the following game Game 2x2 min Top: * keep the body lock and go around the legs to a pin Bottom: * Come to neutral butterfly guard Controlling Center of mass by doing a cranial shift (controlling the upper body and head) Showing how to defend a body lock and let them drill it for 5 min since they almost sparred 45 min Game: 2x2min Bottom: * Get to butterfly guard * Denying cranial shift Top: * Keeping chest to chest position * No hands connected (to keep it simpler) * cranial shift Open up the game: 4x3min Goals bottom: * Keep them in your guard Goals top: * disentangle and get around their guard So we learned: The importance of angle Attacking limbs to gain access to Center of mass Protecting or gaining Inside position The importance of chest to chest and head control All the other stuff like armdrags sweeps etc will happen by their own and the changing between positions leads to a fun class for the student.
What the standing person don’t has is the agility of their legs but base since they are kneeling! Sry
45m warmups 5m instructionals 5m rolling 10m history lesson on how instructor got to where he is in life 20m life coaching
Don’t forget the 30 minute speech from the visiting instructor on the ethos of the sport
oss
The crazy thing is I've taken a class with a super similar structure before
Warm ups for 10-15 minutes. Drills for 30 minutes. 30 minutes of rolling. 10 minutes for dry humping.
>10 minutes for dry humping That’s just rolling. I think you meant to say 40 minutes rolling.
1hr 15. 5m warmup. 30 minute technique / drilling including free time. 10-15m positional sparring, 5 rounds.
This pretty much sums it up for me.
What my students want: no warm-ups, 20 minutes of technique (submissions only, which they drill precisely two times then stare at me), then 45 minutes of live grappling where they do the same dumb shit over and over again. What I know they need: 10 minutes of grip fighting to warm-up, 20 minutes drilling what they already know at least 10 reps each, 20 minutes of new technique and drilling, 10 minute situationals, bow out and open mat. Drillers are killers, but everyone hates it!
Haha it’s so wild to me that people don’t want to learn and drill new things. I’ve seen those people and it seems they hit a skill gap at some point and never grow by doing that
Whatever in the start followed by 20 min of positional and 40 min of rounds.
The idea most fun class or the ideal class I learn the most? The most fun class for most people after the 6-12 month mark is going to be open mat rolling, so I will go with ideal best for my development. It is 100% a dead zone rolling class, or positional sparring as some call it. Same as an open mat. You get with a partner for a 7 minute round. 3 minutes offense, 3 defense, With a break between offense and defense. When you’re on offense you pick any position you like, generally dominant but doesn’t have to be. Such as back control, mount, side, but you can choose guards. You set the rules like reset after an escape or sub or sweep or pass. Then you roll from there and reset every time your established ending point happens. Then, your parter is on offense and they choose. It gives you the ability to get a significant amount of time in offensive positions. It was pivotal for me at my early blue belt stage. If you think about being newer, the amount of sheer minutes you spend in mount or on the back of a similar skilled opponent is next to nothing compared to the minutes you spend passing and retaining and progressing and such. With one dead zone class, you can get literally 10x the amount of time attacking then you would in two weeks of normal class. Then, when you do take that same or higher color belt’s back, you’ve been there
I don't really like the warm ups but I'd say 30 mins technique and 30 mins rounds is perfect.
I'd love 10-15min warm up, 10-15 mins of light flow, 30 mins of technique(s) 15-20 mins of gauntlet or rolling and 5-15 mins cool down/recovery
15min warm up and 15min cool down? you actively like and pay for shit you can do in the car?
I'd love to see a good lunge in the car or a supine hip twist. How do you warm up and cool down in the car?
Push the seat warming button and turn the AC up
For me: * No warm-ups * 40-60 minutes technique training * 25 minutes positional sparring * 20 minutes regular sparring
I don’t like warm ups, I think it should be your responsibility and mat space available to do so before class. I usually get to class 30 min early I move stretch and grab someone for a flow roll. Class 30-45 min of technique Then open mat until you want to go home.
some of us have to arrive when class starts and many gyms don't have free mat space.
Yeah luckily my gym does, OP asked for IDEAL lol not realistic
1.5 hours. (30 minute open mat/warm up BEFORE class). 30 minutes of positional training with the goal set of what were trying to achieve in the class. 10-20 minute technique involving the position being trained AFTER the positional training. Sparing for the rest of the class.
* 10 mins athletic gymnastics/wrestling style warmups so you break a sweat. * 10 minutes flow wrestling/rolling. * 20 minutes drilling whatever it is you're or the class is working on. * 10 mins positional sparring * 10 minutes wrestling/judo. * 20 mins rolling. * 10 mins cool-down, stretching, and hanging with the crew. Never done to a class like this but one can dream
We do 2-2.5 hour classes, 10 minutes of warmup, 2 techniques 20-30 minutes each, followed by positional rounds for the same technique and finally open rolls, 3 to 6 minutes rounds x 5, depending on the day. Wednesday we only roll, no technique.
That’s hella long
I know, but when you’re in the class or rolling- it doesn’t feel that long. Strange how that works.
1,5h - 10 min warm ups + 5 ish min individual warm up (somebody needs to put in extra time to warm up the neck/shoulder/hips etc) 15 mins throw of choice speed drilling, 30 min technique, and 30 min gauntlet or free sparring (from knees or standing, whatever you prefer, but we prefer standup)
Start doing a positional sparring for 15 min then show some technique for that position maybe 10 minutes. Then again 15 min positional sparring in the same position with the newly gained knowledge. Then show techniques for standup, maybe 10 min. Drill those techniques for maybe 10 mins. And we then do standing sparring only for like 20 minutes. The rest of the class ist free rolling where start standing until the 2h are full. All of this is in no gi.
Sounds very similar to how our Gi classes run. We normal do self guided stretching warm up. Then the first 5-10 is a constrained game related to the techniques to come. Gets us more warmed up, get moving and get thinking. Couple connected techniques, from the more foundational upwards. (recently was bottom closed guard armbar to triangle to omoplata) then 2nd half is 6 minute sparring rounds. Our No-Gi are usually led by the owner and from my limited experience seem more eco-based for the first half/40 minutes and then the remainder 6 minute rolls. Not sure if its the eco approach and/or that I'm a FNG at the whole BJJ thing that I find myself lost a lot during the no-gi stuff since I find it more advanced concepts
Sounds like a lot of the classes at Renzo HQ. No breaks though 😂
Warm up positional sparring, drilling, rolling, then competition class
Go to open mats and roll all you want.
15-30 min of technique of the day, drill said technique for 5-10min roll for 45min-1 hour.
We do positional games 1 minute rounds for 20 minutes switching partners and stuff and roll for the last 5 min rounds. I’d rather hour and a half and do 15 1 minute rounds positional 15 3 minute rounds positional and then an hour of live rolls
From a developmental perspective this is an extremely inefficient use of time. Anywhere close to 10 rounds, your time could be spent so much better.
what do you mean?
10 rounds of sparring with nothing like positional sparring or games to bridge the gap is an inefficient way to improve.
it is for lots of practitioners.
100% Drilling with increasing levels of resistance until you have positional sparring. Sadly, no class does this.
Lemme get 10 minute warm up, drill technique for 45 minutes. And then like an hour for rolling. I may not hit every round. Watch the big rolls.
2 hour open mat, half my rolls being with drop ins who I don't know their game at all
2 hours of open mat.
Open mat. But I don’t really care if I’m that good I just like to bang.
At my gym each class is 60 mins and it goes like: 1. 5 min warm up 2. 25-30 mins of technique and drilling 3. Remaining time sparring Those who wish to spar more can do so for another 20 mins before the next class starts. I like this and just recently I started to spar more after class. But then again, this is the only gym I've been in and I've only been doing bjj for 3 months.
Me and 10 trial class guys. We are doing ecological style game sparring. Flying wrist locks and flying mother’s milk only.
2 x 6 mins standup, starting slow and building (acts as a warmup) 2 x 6 mins guard passing rounds (10 second break to switch partners) 6 x 6 mins rounds (10 second break to switch partners) 10-20 mins Q&A
We do 10 min warmup, 20 minute instruction/drill, then 7 or 8 9 minute rounds.
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I just joined a bjj gym. Their classes are 60 minutes: 30 minutes techniques and 30 minutes sparring. If you want to warm up before class it’s up to you, same thing with stretching. I have only attended a few adult classes so I have no experience with the rest. It suits me fine, I have been training martial arts for a while and know how to warm up before classes and stretch after classes. I like that the time is focused on BJJ and not different warm up exercises, especially when you participate in back-to-back classes. Now the only thing I need to sort out is how can I attend as many classes as possible while keeping my job and family.
We have the usual 5-10 min warmup, 25-35 min technique, rest of the hour is rounds...and i stay after for bonus rounds Personally I like long/unlimited rounds with trusted training partners because that's where the real stuff happens...like go until one of you quits or it just seems like time to stop. I know that's not for everybody. I say "trusted training partners" because I'm 50 and there are some 22 year old white belts that I don't really want unlimited time with.
I prefer low impact warmup drills. I have a bad back and it gets sore quickly.
More open drilling! I feel like BJJ is always "do the technique of the day" or "rolling", never "just takedowns" or "just sweeps" with low resistance which is a huge part of advanced wrestling training, getting reps in for YOUR moves.
5-15 minute warmups, with situational drilling for the longer warmups. 30-40 on a few variations of the same technique, and then five or six 4-minute rounds with no breaks. Roughly 1.5 hours Another favorite class is “work on your stuff” instead of “technique of the day”. Once every few weeks is great for this format.
2hrs of 6min rounds
15-20 min on 1-2 techniques that I'm currently working. Include in that time for zero resistance slow drill, talk through, and some ramped resistance (25-30%). 20-30 on positional rounds, maybe 3min top and bottom or switch back and forth depending on how fatiguing it is. 30-40 on full rounds of 5-10min. 10-15 on workshopping anything that showed up in the full rounds. Go home. Thats like 75-105min which sounds about right. 75 min would be very short.
2 hrs total: 30 minute warmup, 45 minute newaza, 45 minute tachiwaza. That includes randori & a cooldown
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Tachi Waza**: | *Standing Techniques* | [here](https://youtu.be/YEfluR58NMo)| |**Ne Waza**: | *Ground Techniques* | | Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Wish I had: 10 minutes of mobility 20 minutes of drills 30 minutes of technique 30~50 minutes of rolling (6 or 10 minutes) 10 minutes of stretching
10 minute warm-up practicing your own stand up with either guard pull and / or takedowns. 30-40 minutes drilling new technique. 10-20 minute positional rounds with moderate resistance. 30 minute sparring.
5 min warmup 10-15 mins takedowns 30 mins newaza 5 min water break 2 mins talk 3 mins break/get ready for open mat 15-30 mins open mat
The gym I go to.... 0 minutes warm-ups. Stretch before class if you want. 45 minutes drilling and instruction (average 3 techniques) 30-45 minutes rolling - Sometimes the first few rounds are positional rolls based on move of the day I love it here.
Playwrestle for warming up, some full rounds to see where we at, and based on those rounds trying to come up with problems to solve in games/tasks/situations etc. Sharing and asking for ideas to focus on while solving these to guide my focus in action. Throwing in some randomness with eyepatch, earplugs, blindfolds, shoes/shoe-no shoes/no shoe etc. variables to create noice as in differential learning. 1.5h is enough for me.
I only teach a nogi class right now and its roughly 6-10 x 90 second rounds of positional rolling with constraints. 10-15 minutes of techniques from the position we're focusing on. 6-10 x 90 second rounds of more positional rolling from the same position 10-15 minutes of techniques from the position we're focusing on. Short Q/A and then rolling for the rest of the class.
45 min lecture about the move, 5 min drilling, 10 min rolling
Probably 2 hours of 5 min rounds I’ll warm up and shit before class and if I want to know about a technique I’ll just grab a higher belt and ask
Let me work my weaknesses or stuff I’m interested in. Gimme feedback. Let me test ideas. Or give me some new challenges to work through. I don’t need 42 techniques every class and two reps each.
45 minutes Open technique and 1hr open (positional) sparring. Positional sparring cause full sparring is mostly useless imo and open technique because I know most of the shit that would really help my game or the shit I'm just straight up bad at its more so just a case of grinding to improve them at this point
All live sparring from start to finish using task based games
Just start rolling or positional sparring with objectives. I don’t wanna do fucking 45 minutes of cartwheels and piggy back rides before I actually start technique
1 hr long, 30 min positional 30 min live, done lol
Make warm ups positional rounds with no subs, after that technique and more positional rounds based on that technique, end it with free sparring or sparring from position that was focused of class that day.
for "classes" positional sparring based on the tech/situation we are about to focus on for 10 minutes as warmup. Super light. 20ish minutes drilling based on that. 30 minutes open roll or positional sparring live for my favorite then then 10 minute drilling with 50% then rolling for 40-50 mins
My professor has been focusing a lot more on positional sparing rather than open ended rolling. The idea being that you get a chance to practice specific techniques and positions in sparing conditions. This forces you to practice things you aren't good at. Open ended rolling tends to lead people to play their same game over and over and limits growth into new skills and techniques.
Warmups are useless 🤮
Stand up sparing only me Vs the bigger higher grades that tap me 😂
30 minutes individual technique (bring your own technique) with each getting 3 min on their own and then switch. Then positional sparring for another 30. Coach is still around to guide and give pointers. Fast track to new techniques of you put in the work at home.
I wish/want a class solely on "here is the position for this week we will work from". Let me know in advance and I can come with my own techniques/concepts top and bottom and others can do the same. To me this is an advance class, not here is 3 techinques and variations (basically longer sequences). If I can't have that I'm fine with just an open mat.
Also warm up drills suck ass not doing those
Finally someone who understands warm ups