Budukan is a wonderful album. Since it first came out in 1978 I’ve always loved how he reimagined so many iconic songs, giving them a whole new look and feel. I recorded my vinyl to cassette back in the day and for years that was the sound track of many road trips. I never did understand the hate it gathered. Now I’m reenjoying it with the recent full release.
"What time is it?" said the judge to Joey when they met.
"Five to ten" said Joey. The judge said "That's exactly what you'll get".
Unexpected funny Bob 😎
Is Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands the only song of Dylan’s he mentions in another one of his songs (Sara)? I tend to agree with you but I it likely means more to Bob than Desolation Row does - not that it matters, just interesting.
Desolation Row is amazing as a critique of the beauty of mankind’s mess and hypocrisy that is probably timeless, but for me Sad Eyed Lady is his master piece of trying to understand and explain the unexplainable aura and love for a singular person, which inspires me to love everyone despite their strange lore
Desolation Row never clicked with me for whatever reason. You know how the big appeal for Dylan is the sort of imagery he evokes in your mind (or I'm assuming others are like me.)? I never really got that with Desolation Row. It just sounds like words.
But it's not a bad song at all. If someone put it on, I wouldn't be upset.
I think that the *performance* of Sad Eyed Lady is a bit rough though. I think another take of that song could take it from great to one of his best for me
To me, Desolation Row was a next step beyond the poetry of gates of eden, & the music was part of the poetry, the melody which was stand alone spirit dancing accompaniment to the dancing imagery of the words. It had interconnected pieces of, like you said, just words, how do you go beyond mr tambourine man, you leave it behind. It didn’t click with you. Ancient empty streets too dead for dreaming. There’s all kinds of people. Desolation row—Some click, some just get bored, lol, you don’t have to work on Dylan’s farm or in the the dry wells of dylanology what ever that is, sounds like it could be fun , just a way of tripping out in social media with a more or less common interest
The first time I ever heard Desolation Row was on September 3, 1965 in the acoustic set of my first (of 8 so far) Bob Dylan concerts, it was at the Hollywood Bowl. I had been listening to the Bringing it All Back Home album all year at that point, didn’t know there was a new Bob Dylan album, released a few days before the concert. Me & my friends were just going to a Bob Dylan concert. Except for Like a Rolling Stone, I didn’t know any new Dylan songs were coming. Desolation Row was the first surprising new Bob Dylan song in the midst of familiar ones, as Bob evolved his way through new genres he created within each new album & in the variety of songs contained all over each album. Desolation Row was & remains a great trip for me.
I can only ever speak for me & what a song inspires me to say at any given time.. I don’t know what dylanology is. Some kind of way some people enjoy bob dylan together, are you saying they have a dogma about the meaning of Bob’s songs or his life? I know there’s always been people where that’s where their creative inspiration takes them. People opionating about Bob, that’s their work of art. If people do it as a group, then maybe it’s their kind of politics for them, a “them vs us” fantasy? Sounds like you enjoy a role of art critic or Dylan song critic. How you create yourself & enjoy being who you are, that’s just me tripping on how I read what you wrote.
Is your user name the name of a group, like Dave Clark Five?
There’s a persistent misogynistic undertone in both his work, and what little we know of his personal relationships. Once you notice it, it’s hard to ignore.
I say this as someone who has listened to Dylan their entire life. He’s my favorite musician by far and I think he’s arguably the most important living writer.
But there’s a certain nastiness throughout his body of work towards women that leaves a bad taste in my mouth at times.
I never really view it as misogyny, more of the fact that he doesn’t take responsibility for many things. Sooner or Later gives me that insight. With that said, I don’t think Just Like a Woman is a good example.
Yeah I've always heard it was about Phil Ochs, but there's really nothing about it that gives anything specific away or is specifically misogynistic, and it's probably not about anyone in particular but rather an amalgamation of people in the folk scene of that era.
Positively 4th St is a bash on the folk music industry and NY Folk culture, not just a particular ex friend or woman, although a few may have contributed to his angst. Bob wrote it soon after the alleged booing at Newport Folk Festival '65. Just sayin'.
While it's true, the man was born right after WW2. He grew up in the 1950s in the Midwest. In many ways he was ahead of his peers in his attitude towards things. But that's never going to be perfect.
I think for any of those examples you can list, you'll find plenty of music where he glorifies what women are capable of (in terms of how it affects him and towards others)
The funny thing is that he's probably one of the least controversial rock stars in areas like this. Like having to look at other artists differently due to things they've said or done.
Ultimately, he's just a guy from Minnesota
I dont really like how you are trying to frame Dylan as consistently misogynistic towards women in his lyrics when I could name you countless examples of song that depict women in the total opposite light
He is nasty towards tons of people in his lyrics, it's not something only reserved for women, so how is his work colored by misogyny?
You're not wrong, but I don't like when people use just like a woman as an example.
I'm the guy that just trashed blonde on blonde, but jlaw is lovely imo.
That’s the biggest the difference between for me between hearing Blood On The Tracks as a 20 or 30 something and then listening again at 46. There’s a tone of nastiness. And not just Idiot Wind. Where I think similar themes are presented in Time Out Of Mind but a little more mature.
And there are also tones of tenderness, love and guilt on his part. Blood on the Tracks perfectly capture all the emotion we go through during heartbreak. I think trying to simplify it as having a nasty tone is shallow. Besides, how does nastiness equal misogyny exactly?
You are making it seem like he is exclusively nastly towards women, when he can be nasty towards anybody including men.
Also, dont you think you are kinda ignoring the countless beautiful songs he has written about women as well?
I saw the last concert of the 1974 tour, Valentine’s Day at the Inglewood Forum, it was very awesome, I think Dylan/Band did a set , don’t remember if next set was Dylan solo, I think so, then Band solo, then Dylan acoustic solo with the lights off & audience people lit lighters & matches , it was beautiful, that was an amazing feeling, never saw anything like that before in any context, seemed like expressing the awe of Dylan people who had seen him & got his records in the early & mid 60s, & then he was gone, & his absence was felt over those years, then Planet Waves came , new songs, Something There is About You, that song alone had such a feel for me, …. It was out of the park. The concert happened against the background of his long absence, so lighting the lighters in the dark had a feeling of sending him what it meant to see & hear him again, the intimacy of the acoustic set. This time it was a different president standing naked, the mental flash of that image, lol.
The one I saw wasn’t the last, it was afternoon show. Evening concert was the last, Songs from both were on the Before the Flood album, which soon came out. That was my 2nd Dylan concert, the first one was something like 8 1/2 years before. At my first concert Robbie & Levon played. In 74 I got to see all the Hawks. Their last tour date with Dylan.
That+Seeing the band would have been awesome and the It's Alright Ma from Before the Flood is killer. For 1978, Those sets were long & he never played Where Are You Tonight and Changing of The Guards ever again.
Blood on the Tracks should be seen as his magnum opus, not the electric trilogy. Also that Visions of Johanna should be seen as his best song, instead of Like a Rolling Stone.
I can accept that. I consider VOJ to be the best lyrical song of all time, so I think it should be his signature piece. But LARS is also a masterpiece and had the biggest impact.
For how magical some of his songs are, the lyrics sometimes leave more to be desired than the kind of ‘genius poet’ people claim him to be. Some stinkers on Ballad of a Thin Man, for instance.
I’d say also, I saw something in his eyes on 60 minutes. When he was being described as this great artist at the top of various lists and so on, he seemed like he had a genuine despair about it. Like he’d once thought achieving that would be everything and actually it’s not - “these lists change all the time” he says. I just wonder if maybe he dreamed of being this great artist and it hasn’t made him as happy as he thought it might.
Everybody judges you and tries to tear you down. The world is full of mean-spirited judgmental people and we are all victims eventually. Any and everything you do can and will be subject to judgment.
Every single time I gripe about Murder Most Foul I get dozens of downvotes. But here you are with 20+? What gives? Lol. I feel like the song was written by AI. 😂
Dylan has occupied the role of guru, seer, truth teller etc for so long in many people's minds. Part of this is in the eye of the beholder part of this comes from how the man himself portrays himself.
Yet there's a disturbing thread of Dylan himself reversing roles. Best example is stalking Springsteen's home in NJ. Following Woody might be another. I think there are other examples as well. Where basically he's himself guilty of doing what he will berate the Dylan obsessives for doing!
I'm on thinner ice here because this bit is more speculative but I've always got vibes with his relationships with both Sara and Scarlett Rivera that he saw in both women some sort of "magic" (magical jewel, mystical wife) which again (if true, big if) would speak to the man sort of falling for something that he's been seen to be the purveyor of.
All this is just to say that he hasn't always walked the walk in my view. You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you being the talk.
Having seen him 3 times, I genuinely believe people are just trying to convince themselves that he is still brilliant live because they don't want to disrespect him or don't want to believe he is failing.
I like his normal voice that he uses on Triplicate better than much of the nasally whining he has done throughout his career. Wish he had used it a bit more on earlier records.
Not a complaint. Just would be curious to have heard some of the old ones done differently.
His normal voice is Nashville Skyline. By all accounts, that's his actual singing voice.
But I do really like his 2015-2016 singing. Especially Shadows In The Night. That sounds like the iconic 60s/70s Bob Dylan grew old.
Something I've noticed is that he sounds better when he sings a bit lower. Like in 1964 he sounds like a damn kazoo. But something like New Morning sounds better to me.
I agree, listening to Blonde on Blonde from start to finish is a very different experience than just casually listening to it with long spaces in between , Blood on the Tracks as an album is absolutely perfect, another album I like listening to from start to finish is John Wesley Harding
Its hard to explain why I disagree with this. Because I think I know *why* some people say that.
I'm guessing that since you're a Dylan fan, some of the music really affects you in a powerful way. Especially through imagery. Right? That's generally what makes Dylan special to so many people.
So Blonde on Blonde kind of sounds like two things at once. What I hear is basically the best album of all time, the strongest imagery, the most impactful feelings from art altogether. It's the be-all end-all.
But if I didn't get that from the music, it would sound like a memphis-based blues rock album. Which generally isn't my favorite genre. And I always wonder if the "Blonde on Blonde is overrated" crowd head *that* when they hear it. Maybe I'm wrong!
But yeah. Blonde on Blonde is such a crazy album for me. It's the ultimate for imagery and making my mind do flips. The album just folds on itself a million different ways. Nothing else like it for me!
What's funny is a lot of people get all this magic from Desolation Row, and it does absolutely nothing for me
It’s still my favorite album of all time, but I heard someone call it “ever so slightly more contrived” than BIABH and H61 and it sort of changed my perspective.
He was at the top and still had that magic, but BoB has the slightest undertone of “trying to prove it to you” compared to the other two.
I don’t listen to it often but I love when I do. Especially on the LP, it’s very well-paced as a 4 act album where each side has a specific vibe and does things a little bit differently that I find really enjoyable and intoxicating.
I love the man’s work, but I think his folk stuff is constructed for an audience, not from the heart. I think it’s perfectly calibrated from a man hungry for success and not sincere artistry
I remember reading something about The Times They Are A-Changin (the album, not the song). Someone wrote that it was one of the only times in Dylan's career that he did exactly what people expected him to do.
I think most of it was honest though. He was a big Woodie Guthrie fan, and he was young. But going into his mid 20s, he outgrew it.
I think it’s the work of a young man with a vision and talent beyond his years grasping for a voice and growth. He’s achingly yearning to become what he knows he can become.
Something like Blowin’ in the Wind is both callow, brilliant for the time, and only the slightest hit of want he would become as a writer.
The evolution from Song for Woody to Blowin’ to Hard Rain to Tambourine Man to, say, Tangled Up in Blue is fascinating.
It’s mind blowing to see that evolution.
I think they were sincere but you know he was very very young when he made those songs, he basically stopped when he got to Another Side, in that album he expresses how he isn’t apart of “that crowd” anymore, it was somewhat of a “phase” , he just kept developing and maturing as time went on
I think Bob would agree with you here, at least specifically in regards to his protest songs. I do think he has a genuine enduring love for folk music (evidenced by those two folk cover albums from the 90s), but he has spoken about how he wrote most of the protest songs because he saw a market for those kind of songs at the time.
I could do without most of the 10+ minute songs. Not because the length bothers me, but I find most of them pretty boring.
Exceptions: Desolation Row, Jack of Hearts (close enough). Haven't spent enough time with Tempest but I'm inclined to keep it off the shit list.
https://preview.redd.it/rx0i8hnus55d1.jpeg?width=2646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04bcffc9a838614143d24f4213e30cc66882ac55
Here's what the audience looks like in Dylan's ideal performance. Have a seat. Have a drink. Put on a fedora. Chill. 🪑
for every song that was improved by daniel lanois' style there's 2 or 3 that were probably butchered. oh and under the red sky is vastly superior to oh mercy.
I’ll get a kicking for this but Like A Rolling Stone. I can’t listen to it anymore.
I got the impact of it way back. It’s just worn thin. I’ve heard it too many times, whereas Positively 4th Street has held up better.
It can be hard to avoid, but I don't think it's very useful to criticize a song based on how many times it's been heard and how tired it's grown. It doesn't really have anything to do with the song.
There are people born every day who have never heard that song and someday will hear it for the first time. I don't like the thought that it'll come on, and someone next to them will groan and say "can we listen to something else?"
Bob asked Robbie to lay down some guitar overdubs and effective make the music 'fuller', but Robbie convinced him that it was fine as is. I think that's the story, at least.
I still contend that it's the best song to show people who don't know if they like Dylan or not though. Because it usually immediately makes people realize that the Blowin In The Wind / All Along the Watchtower acoustic folksy guy from pop culture is more than they first thought
I've shown quite a few people that song and they're usually like "Oh shit maybe I do like Bob Dylan"
I agree 100%. I first heard the unreleased version, Danville Girl, which continues to blow me away. Brownsville has those backup singers doing the chorus, and I’ve always found their contributions jarring. Good singers with a bad fit to the song, IMO. Danville is acoustic Dylan alone, and he sings with true passion.
He purposefully sings horribly live since the 90's.
When you hear him singing well, like on covers/sinatra albums, or sometimes live when he sings clearly and annunciates and puts effort in etc, it's like 'oh shit, his voice can still be nice'
But instead it's this nasal cookie monster horror more often than not.
he could have cut, like, two verses out of “visions of johanna” (saying that while still thinking it’s one of the most poetic songs of all time though)
I think the folkies had every reason to resent him after he went electric. That crowd had made him famous because they saw him as a brilliant young songwriter with a conscience as well as a sense of humor, someone who described the injustices and hypocrisies in our chrome-plated utopia. Then when he decided he wanted to be a pop star, he turned his back on social engagement and acted surprised that people thought he was a sellout.
He went on to make terrific music, but he *was* a sellout.
I dunno how radical a take this is but the melody to “Time Passes Slowly” is my least favourite. It sounds off key and pitch to me. It’s think that one fell from the tree before it was ripe. I’m sure lots of people like it, but it’s like nails on a chalkboard for me
Ha ha, yeah Brownsville Girl is over the top with everything dialed up to 11 so I can understand someone not liking it - but you’re so wrong! ☺️ It’s an absolutely amazing one of a kind masterpiece, makes me want to drive across the desert country..
I think he could have and should have been a blues singer. That amazing music was evolving right when he started coming up. He could have changed everything as we know it, but also get completely ignored by the mainstream at the same time.
The live performance in the Isle of Wight Festival on August 31, 1969 was probably his best live performance. Or at least one of the best concerts. It should have been released as a live album.
Desire < Blood On the Tracks << Planet Waves < Before the Flood
Oh Mercy is the best Bob Dylan recording at least since his live performance in Forum de Montreal on December 4, 1975
His records are best listened to alone with attentiveness unless you’re with a group of other Dylan fans. Highway 61/Blonde on Blonde are exceptions that are pretty good “party” music in the right setting. But trying to put on a Dylan album around non Dylan fans and people are taking while you’re trying to catch all of the verses is often irritating. Also you can feel when other people don’t like it while you’re listening which dampens the experience.
Opinion 2: it’s annoying when you’re trying to sing along with the songs live and he makes sure the phrases are always as far away from what you expect as possible. I get that it’s his whole thing, but its still frustrating.
There's a tendency of certain dylan acolytes to frame Dylan as a person who "elevated popular song" with his words, but I think Dylan, while a genius songwriter, is highly underrated as an actual musician. People always talk about Blonde on Blonde, specifically Visions of Johanna, as this perfect jewel of a song from a lyrical standpoint, but it is, above all, music. It's not a poem set to music. It's a song that can work, to a certain extent, as a poem. But I don't believe that a wide lot of Dylan's catalog can actually transcend the man himself, contrary to people who say they "like covers, but can't stand the originals."
But Visions of Johanna works so perfectly as music. If the music sucked, the lyrics wouldn't mean anything. And people overrated Dylan's lyrics sometimes. Leonard Cohen can, at times, write circles around Dylan on some very big topics.
But Dylan is, above all, a great musician, and that's why people listen to him. His voices are usually on key, his phrasing is impeccable and god-like, his playing can be grand, and he has a real knack for picking his bands. He can put on an awesome show.
Also also, I don't think Dylan is particularly bright about a lot of things. I also think he's a genius in his craft. If he had become anything else, I think he really would have suffered. I also think he knew that from an early age, and pushed himself to the literal limit of his abilities to get the hell out of that reality. He wanted to be in show business.
And one more thing. Dylan is not nor has ever been a hippie. He also isn't a baby boomer, nor has much association with classical boomer 60's acts, being much more an early 60's act with, in some ways, 50's sensibilities that passed on the torch to the Beatles, Doors, etc after he disappeared in 66.
Until the end of Cold War, Bob Dylan would reinvent his style and his substance as well every 3-4 years. He would evolve, grow, and age into some new form each time. Each new iteration of Bob Dylan would produce the new format, the new approach, and the new paradigm. Each iteration had its own characteristic poetic structure, its characteristic poetic style of presentation, its own vocal attack of the sung material. As a result, this had a direct effect on how Bob Dylan’s looks, image, voice, and singing style was changing every 3-4 years during the first 30-35 years of his celebrityhood.
However, since early 1990s, he has become predictably stable. In the past 30-35 years, he has become, shall I say, the same. This can be noticed in his looks, style, voice, singing patterns, and the poetic structure and presentation. As a result, I claim the following:
Love and Theft is Time Out of Mind Volume 2, Modern Times is Time Out of Mind Volume 3, Together Through Life is Time Out of Mind Volume 4, and so on. Rough and Rowdy Ways is Time Out of Mind Volume number …
Of course they are all very good albums. I just want to point out is that Bob Dylan had crystallized into one form around the time of the end of the Cold War, and he keeps true to this form.
I'm furious!
What's wrong with brownsville girl?
Apart from some loose backing vocals, it's a great track!
Anyway, I didn't like his slow train coming album much.
Budukan is a wonderful album. Since it first came out in 1978 I’ve always loved how he reimagined so many iconic songs, giving them a whole new look and feel. I recorded my vinyl to cassette back in the day and for years that was the sound track of many road trips. I never did understand the hate it gathered. Now I’m reenjoying it with the recent full release.
I love this version of “Rolling Stone.” Less angry and vengeful, more sad and sympathetic.
Budokan Tambourine Man is simply perfect.
I Want You followed by All I Really Wanna Do always gets me pumped up and creative. No joke.
Bobby knew what he was doing this entire time. Meticulously planned and calculated.
Perfectly executed, skillfully done.
A good man... and thorough.
Saw what you did!
Must Be Santa is top 10
I wouldn't change a single thing on Desire. I don't understand why people want to get rid of Joey. It's a great song.
It’s not so bad, but it’s too long and celebrates a horrible person.
Yeah, Uncle Bobby took liberties with thar one
"What time is it?" said the judge to Joey when they met. "Five to ten" said Joey. The judge said "That's exactly what you'll get". Unexpected funny Bob 😎
Since when has Dylan not been funny? I love Castro and his beard?
Street Legal is one of his best albums and the production is first class.
I was with you until you said you liked the production…
The production on the 1999 remix is first class.
r/bobdylancirclejerk
The opinion that the 80s were actually a fertile period of great work for Dylan, which I totally support.
Jacques Levy deserves more credit for Desire and the Rolling Thunder tour.
Brownsville Girl is one of my favorites, but where else are you going to hear lyrics like, "even the swap meets are getting pretty corrupt!"?
Nowhere. That's where
Desolation Row > Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands, and it’s not even close.
Absolutely agree...but I didn't think that was unpopular
I'd like to meet someone who disagrees with this. Desolation Row is one of his best songs lyrically.
When I was younger I liked Desolation Row more, but as I get older I appreciate Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands more, they're both amazing though.
I personally disagree with it hi
I disagree 🫡
Is Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands the only song of Dylan’s he mentions in another one of his songs (Sara)? I tend to agree with you but I it likely means more to Bob than Desolation Row does - not that it matters, just interesting.
Desolation Row is amazing as a critique of the beauty of mankind’s mess and hypocrisy that is probably timeless, but for me Sad Eyed Lady is his master piece of trying to understand and explain the unexplainable aura and love for a singular person, which inspires me to love everyone despite their strange lore
Here’s what will get me in trouble…you won’t catch me listening to either of these songs ever
Desolation Row never clicked with me for whatever reason. You know how the big appeal for Dylan is the sort of imagery he evokes in your mind (or I'm assuming others are like me.)? I never really got that with Desolation Row. It just sounds like words. But it's not a bad song at all. If someone put it on, I wouldn't be upset. I think that the *performance* of Sad Eyed Lady is a bit rough though. I think another take of that song could take it from great to one of his best for me
To me, Desolation Row was a next step beyond the poetry of gates of eden, & the music was part of the poetry, the melody which was stand alone spirit dancing accompaniment to the dancing imagery of the words. It had interconnected pieces of, like you said, just words, how do you go beyond mr tambourine man, you leave it behind. It didn’t click with you. Ancient empty streets too dead for dreaming. There’s all kinds of people. Desolation row—Some click, some just get bored, lol, you don’t have to work on Dylan’s farm or in the the dry wells of dylanology what ever that is, sounds like it could be fun , just a way of tripping out in social media with a more or less common interest The first time I ever heard Desolation Row was on September 3, 1965 in the acoustic set of my first (of 8 so far) Bob Dylan concerts, it was at the Hollywood Bowl. I had been listening to the Bringing it All Back Home album all year at that point, didn’t know there was a new Bob Dylan album, released a few days before the concert. Me & my friends were just going to a Bob Dylan concert. Except for Like a Rolling Stone, I didn’t know any new Dylan songs were coming. Desolation Row was the first surprising new Bob Dylan song in the midst of familiar ones, as Bob evolved his way through new genres he created within each new album & in the variety of songs contained all over each album. Desolation Row was & remains a great trip for me. I can only ever speak for me & what a song inspires me to say at any given time.. I don’t know what dylanology is. Some kind of way some people enjoy bob dylan together, are you saying they have a dogma about the meaning of Bob’s songs or his life? I know there’s always been people where that’s where their creative inspiration takes them. People opionating about Bob, that’s their work of art. If people do it as a group, then maybe it’s their kind of politics for them, a “them vs us” fantasy? Sounds like you enjoy a role of art critic or Dylan song critic. How you create yourself & enjoy being who you are, that’s just me tripping on how I read what you wrote. Is your user name the name of a group, like Dave Clark Five?
Correct. Can't believe this is argued.
There’s a persistent misogynistic undertone in both his work, and what little we know of his personal relationships. Once you notice it, it’s hard to ignore. I say this as someone who has listened to Dylan their entire life. He’s my favorite musician by far and I think he’s arguably the most important living writer. But there’s a certain nastiness throughout his body of work towards women that leaves a bad taste in my mouth at times.
I love when people acknowledge things like this without losing perspective
She Belongs to Me is an example of the opposite
Except for the title, if you don’t take it as purely ironic
I mean, it clearly is given the actual content of the song
And so is All I Really Want To Do
I never really view it as misogyny, more of the fact that he doesn’t take responsibility for many things. Sooner or Later gives me that insight. With that said, I don’t think Just Like a Woman is a good example.
I agree with you. It's hardly subtle at certain points.
Could you give us some examples in the lyrics?
I love Positively 4th St., but it's a mean spirited song, at least
I always think of a certain person when I hear that song, some songs need to be mean spirited.
Positively 4th St. is mean spirited, sure, but when was it misogynistic?
Yeah I've always heard it was about Phil Ochs, but there's really nothing about it that gives anything specific away or is specifically misogynistic, and it's probably not about anyone in particular but rather an amalgamation of people in the folk scene of that era.
Positively 4th St is a bash on the folk music industry and NY Folk culture, not just a particular ex friend or woman, although a few may have contributed to his angst. Bob wrote it soon after the alleged booing at Newport Folk Festival '65. Just sayin'.
Definitely mean spirited but it’s not directed at a woman (ie the object of the song is not gendered in any way).
What does the song being mean spirited have anything to do with misogyny?
While it's true, the man was born right after WW2. He grew up in the 1950s in the Midwest. In many ways he was ahead of his peers in his attitude towards things. But that's never going to be perfect. I think for any of those examples you can list, you'll find plenty of music where he glorifies what women are capable of (in terms of how it affects him and towards others) The funny thing is that he's probably one of the least controversial rock stars in areas like this. Like having to look at other artists differently due to things they've said or done. Ultimately, he's just a guy from Minnesota
Slight correction: born *during* WW2 👍
Examples?
I dont really like how you are trying to frame Dylan as consistently misogynistic towards women in his lyrics when I could name you countless examples of song that depict women in the total opposite light He is nasty towards tons of people in his lyrics, it's not something only reserved for women, so how is his work colored by misogyny?
You're not wrong, but I don't like when people use just like a woman as an example. I'm the guy that just trashed blonde on blonde, but jlaw is lovely imo.
Didn't Woody Allen do that?
Just as much as all other artists who've been heartbroken and have need to express it. Dylan just did it best hence it's potency.
That’s the biggest the difference between for me between hearing Blood On The Tracks as a 20 or 30 something and then listening again at 46. There’s a tone of nastiness. And not just Idiot Wind. Where I think similar themes are presented in Time Out Of Mind but a little more mature.
And there are also tones of tenderness, love and guilt on his part. Blood on the Tracks perfectly capture all the emotion we go through during heartbreak. I think trying to simplify it as having a nasty tone is shallow. Besides, how does nastiness equal misogyny exactly?
I have always felt this way.
Amen to ALL of that!
You are making it seem like he is exclusively nastly towards women, when he can be nasty towards anybody including men. Also, dont you think you are kinda ignoring the countless beautiful songs he has written about women as well?
Could you give me a few examples-just songs, not lines. Thank you!
That I like Wiggle Wiggle.
Who doesn't?
I meant the song
I do not like the song Every Grain of Sand at all.
And if i said its the worst song on shot of love…🫣
The bootleg version is better
Incredibly wrong. Send him away.
A lot of his best stuff has come from the past 35 years
I would have rather gone to the 74 or 78 tour than the rolling thunder revue
I saw the last concert of the 1974 tour, Valentine’s Day at the Inglewood Forum, it was very awesome, I think Dylan/Band did a set , don’t remember if next set was Dylan solo, I think so, then Band solo, then Dylan acoustic solo with the lights off & audience people lit lighters & matches , it was beautiful, that was an amazing feeling, never saw anything like that before in any context, seemed like expressing the awe of Dylan people who had seen him & got his records in the early & mid 60s, & then he was gone, & his absence was felt over those years, then Planet Waves came , new songs, Something There is About You, that song alone had such a feel for me, …. It was out of the park. The concert happened against the background of his long absence, so lighting the lighters in the dark had a feeling of sending him what it meant to see & hear him again, the intimacy of the acoustic set. This time it was a different president standing naked, the mental flash of that image, lol. The one I saw wasn’t the last, it was afternoon show. Evening concert was the last, Songs from both were on the Before the Flood album, which soon came out. That was my 2nd Dylan concert, the first one was something like 8 1/2 years before. At my first concert Robbie & Levon played. In 74 I got to see all the Hawks. Their last tour date with Dylan.
More Bob, less filler? Or is there another reason?
That+Seeing the band would have been awesome and the It's Alright Ma from Before the Flood is killer. For 1978, Those sets were long & he never played Where Are You Tonight and Changing of The Guards ever again.
I'll gladly accept the '78 tour over Rolling Thunder, but '74?? The shouty, soulless victory lap? You're done here. Turn in your badge and gun.
Christmas In The Heart is a great album.
Blood on the Tracks should be seen as his magnum opus, not the electric trilogy. Also that Visions of Johanna should be seen as his best song, instead of Like a Rolling Stone.
I may agree with you on BotT. I’ve considered that myself. VoJ is Dylan’s *best* song, LaRS is Dylan’s *defining* song. Also the best ROCK song ever.
I can accept that. I consider VOJ to be the best lyrical song of all time, so I think it should be his signature piece. But LARS is also a masterpiece and had the biggest impact.
Well it’s also the message of LaRS; it defines the Dylan ethos.
For how magical some of his songs are, the lyrics sometimes leave more to be desired than the kind of ‘genius poet’ people claim him to be. Some stinkers on Ballad of a Thin Man, for instance. I’d say also, I saw something in his eyes on 60 minutes. When he was being described as this great artist at the top of various lists and so on, he seemed like he had a genuine despair about it. Like he’d once thought achieving that would be everything and actually it’s not - “these lists change all the time” he says. I just wonder if maybe he dreamed of being this great artist and it hasn’t made him as happy as he thought it might.
You don’t think he is a genius poet? Even the best poets have mediocre stinkers.
Rainy Day Women Nos. 12 & 35 should have not been released
I used to dislike. Then I understood it. Now I love it.
what understanding did you come to?
Everybody judges you and tries to tear you down. The world is full of mean-spirited judgmental people and we are all victims eventually. Any and everything you do can and will be subject to judgment.
murder most foul is a string of clichés
Murder Most Foul is an awful song with lyrics like a viral nostalgia Facebook post for boomers.
Such a lazy and shallow take.
Not as lazy as the rhyme scheme
For me that song is Tempest
Every single time I gripe about Murder Most Foul I get dozens of downvotes. But here you are with 20+? What gives? Lol. I feel like the song was written by AI. 😂
You walked so I could run 🫡
Wrong. It's genius. The best song of 2020 by far.
Dylan has occupied the role of guru, seer, truth teller etc for so long in many people's minds. Part of this is in the eye of the beholder part of this comes from how the man himself portrays himself. Yet there's a disturbing thread of Dylan himself reversing roles. Best example is stalking Springsteen's home in NJ. Following Woody might be another. I think there are other examples as well. Where basically he's himself guilty of doing what he will berate the Dylan obsessives for doing! I'm on thinner ice here because this bit is more speculative but I've always got vibes with his relationships with both Sara and Scarlett Rivera that he saw in both women some sort of "magic" (magical jewel, mystical wife) which again (if true, big if) would speak to the man sort of falling for something that he's been seen to be the purveyor of. All this is just to say that he hasn't always walked the walk in my view. You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you being the talk.
Stalking Bruce Springsteen? He only went to look at the guy's house.
I don't enjoy the '78 tour
That Blood on The Tracks is not the best Dylan album. Not close. And released version isn't the best version.
Admittedly I do like most of the More Blood More Tracks versions better.
Having seen him 3 times, I genuinely believe people are just trying to convince themselves that he is still brilliant live because they don't want to disrespect him or don't want to believe he is failing.
His voice sounds like a flesh blender and it’s been like that for years now
I like his normal voice that he uses on Triplicate better than much of the nasally whining he has done throughout his career. Wish he had used it a bit more on earlier records. Not a complaint. Just would be curious to have heard some of the old ones done differently.
His normal voice is Nashville Skyline. By all accounts, that's his actual singing voice. But I do really like his 2015-2016 singing. Especially Shadows In The Night. That sounds like the iconic 60s/70s Bob Dylan grew old. Something I've noticed is that he sounds better when he sings a bit lower. Like in 1964 he sounds like a damn kazoo. But something like New Morning sounds better to me.
Blonde on blonde is too long and kinda boring. It's a record he did just because he could.
You are now in trouble
I love several songs in Blonde on Blonde, but in my opinion it has some fillers. Thats why I prefer Highway or Blood when talking about ALBUMS.
I agree, listening to Blonde on Blonde from start to finish is a very different experience than just casually listening to it with long spaces in between , Blood on the Tracks as an album is absolutely perfect, another album I like listening to from start to finish is John Wesley Harding
Its hard to explain why I disagree with this. Because I think I know *why* some people say that. I'm guessing that since you're a Dylan fan, some of the music really affects you in a powerful way. Especially through imagery. Right? That's generally what makes Dylan special to so many people. So Blonde on Blonde kind of sounds like two things at once. What I hear is basically the best album of all time, the strongest imagery, the most impactful feelings from art altogether. It's the be-all end-all. But if I didn't get that from the music, it would sound like a memphis-based blues rock album. Which generally isn't my favorite genre. And I always wonder if the "Blonde on Blonde is overrated" crowd head *that* when they hear it. Maybe I'm wrong! But yeah. Blonde on Blonde is such a crazy album for me. It's the ultimate for imagery and making my mind do flips. The album just folds on itself a million different ways. Nothing else like it for me! What's funny is a lot of people get all this magic from Desolation Row, and it does absolutely nothing for me
It’s still my favorite album of all time, but I heard someone call it “ever so slightly more contrived” than BIABH and H61 and it sort of changed my perspective. He was at the top and still had that magic, but BoB has the slightest undertone of “trying to prove it to you” compared to the other two.
Just because of sad eyed lady but you don't have to flip the second record!
Wrong!
Yeah I probably am
I’m just goofing around man, I’m appreciating everyone’s takes in this post!
I don’t listen to it often but I love when I do. Especially on the LP, it’s very well-paced as a 4 act album where each side has a specific vibe and does things a little bit differently that I find really enjoyable and intoxicating.
I’ve never really gotten into it.
I love the man’s work, but I think his folk stuff is constructed for an audience, not from the heart. I think it’s perfectly calibrated from a man hungry for success and not sincere artistry
I remember reading something about The Times They Are A-Changin (the album, not the song). Someone wrote that it was one of the only times in Dylan's career that he did exactly what people expected him to do. I think most of it was honest though. He was a big Woodie Guthrie fan, and he was young. But going into his mid 20s, he outgrew it.
if you don't think hattie carrol or pawn in their game or blowing in the wind are from the heart, i dunno
or masters of war
I think it’s the work of a young man with a vision and talent beyond his years grasping for a voice and growth. He’s achingly yearning to become what he knows he can become. Something like Blowin’ in the Wind is both callow, brilliant for the time, and only the slightest hit of want he would become as a writer. The evolution from Song for Woody to Blowin’ to Hard Rain to Tambourine Man to, say, Tangled Up in Blue is fascinating. It’s mind blowing to see that evolution.
I think they were sincere but you know he was very very young when he made those songs, he basically stopped when he got to Another Side, in that album he expresses how he isn’t apart of “that crowd” anymore, it was somewhat of a “phase” , he just kept developing and maturing as time went on
I think Bob would agree with you here, at least specifically in regards to his protest songs. I do think he has a genuine enduring love for folk music (evidenced by those two folk cover albums from the 90s), but he has spoken about how he wrote most of the protest songs because he saw a market for those kind of songs at the time.
I always remember that clip of Joan Baez talking about saying to protesters ‘why are you waiting for Bob? He doesn’t come to these things’
Don't know if I agree, but love this take.
I could do without most of the 10+ minute songs. Not because the length bothers me, but I find most of them pretty boring. Exceptions: Desolation Row, Jack of Hearts (close enough). Haven't spent enough time with Tempest but I'm inclined to keep it off the shit list.
Brownsville Girl is pretty great.
"Highlands" is like a short film to me. I'd love it if all his long songs were like that.
Dylan does not keep booking seated venues where he performs seated at a piano with the intention that you will stand during the show.
https://preview.redd.it/rx0i8hnus55d1.jpeg?width=2646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04bcffc9a838614143d24f4213e30cc66882ac55 Here's what the audience looks like in Dylan's ideal performance. Have a seat. Have a drink. Put on a fedora. Chill. 🪑
How sick would it be to see him like this. I bet he’d be having so much fun.
i ride for Christmas in the Heart
*Self Portrait* is better than *New Morning* by a mile.
for every song that was improved by daniel lanois' style there's 2 or 3 that were probably butchered. oh and under the red sky is vastly superior to oh mercy.
Yeah not a huge fan of Lanois.
blood on the tracks would have been better without lily, rosemary and the jack of hearts
Modern Bob is better than young or middle aged Bob.
I’ll get a kicking for this but Like A Rolling Stone. I can’t listen to it anymore. I got the impact of it way back. It’s just worn thin. I’ve heard it too many times, whereas Positively 4th Street has held up better.
It can be hard to avoid, but I don't think it's very useful to criticize a song based on how many times it's been heard and how tired it's grown. It doesn't really have anything to do with the song. There are people born every day who have never heard that song and someday will hear it for the first time. I don't like the thought that it'll come on, and someone next to them will groan and say "can we listen to something else?"
If it weren't for the screeching harmonica solos in every gd song, John Wesley Harding would be his best album.
Wasn't the Band supposed to play backup on that album or am I nuts?
Never heard that but it makes sense
Bob asked Robbie to lay down some guitar overdubs and effective make the music 'fuller', but Robbie convinced him that it was fine as is. I think that's the story, at least.
Blonde on Blonde doesn’t touch the top 5
I don't like "Ballad of a Thin Man." Never have, probably never will. Someone alert Adam Duritz, 'cause I guess I'm Mr. Jones.
This is too much for me.
I still contend that it's the best song to show people who don't know if they like Dylan or not though. Because it usually immediately makes people realize that the Blowin In The Wind / All Along the Watchtower acoustic folksy guy from pop culture is more than they first thought I've shown quite a few people that song and they're usually like "Oh shit maybe I do like Bob Dylan"
I’m with you. I always skip it.
I think BoB is an overrated album. I think it has some good songs and some bad ones...
Triplicate is a top 3 Bob album
Or maybe even Triplicate is THE top 3 Bob ALBUMS
I agree 100%. I first heard the unreleased version, Danville Girl, which continues to blow me away. Brownsville has those backup singers doing the chorus, and I’ve always found their contributions jarring. Good singers with a bad fit to the song, IMO. Danville is acoustic Dylan alone, and he sings with true passion.
I think shadow kingdom was pretty boring
lmfao so back in the day on expectingrain forums we did not talk about brownsville girl we all hated that shit
Live Dylan is boring (Except for Rolling Thunder)
He purposefully sings horribly live since the 90's. When you hear him singing well, like on covers/sinatra albums, or sometimes live when he sings clearly and annunciates and puts effort in etc, it's like 'oh shit, his voice can still be nice' But instead it's this nasal cookie monster horror more often than not.
I don't like stoned 60s Dylan that much
he could have cut, like, two verses out of “visions of johanna” (saying that while still thinking it’s one of the most poetic songs of all time though)
Them’s fighting words
Wow. I hate this thread
Hahaha it was a fun one
He really needs to stop touring.
The Hurricane ballad should never be played again and every record of it burned. Dude was probably guilty
The song rocks but yes he was probably guilty
Time out of Mind is overrated
I think the folkies had every reason to resent him after he went electric. That crowd had made him famous because they saw him as a brilliant young songwriter with a conscience as well as a sense of humor, someone who described the injustices and hypocrisies in our chrome-plated utopia. Then when he decided he wanted to be a pop star, he turned his back on social engagement and acted surprised that people thought he was a sellout. He went on to make terrific music, but he *was* a sellout.
He's rarely good live anymore, and it's been that way for 20 years.
Sir, I am enraged by this.
I dunno how radical a take this is but the melody to “Time Passes Slowly” is my least favourite. It sounds off key and pitch to me. It’s think that one fell from the tree before it was ripe. I’m sure lots of people like it, but it’s like nails on a chalkboard for me
Sometimes the sound quality at a concert is pretty bad. This wasn’t a problem when he played with the Band, the Dead, or Rolling Thunder.
Time out of mind was his last great album
Million Dollar Bash >> Like a Rolling Stone and 95 percent of his songs in general.
Infidels is great as is and it’s a great album!
I can't stand most of the tracks on Blood on the Tracks. Idiot Wind and Lily, Rosemary, great, the rest..... turn the sound off please.
His concerts are terrible and he should’ve listened to Merle Haggard.
Ha ha, yeah Brownsville Girl is over the top with everything dialed up to 11 so I can understand someone not liking it - but you’re so wrong! ☺️ It’s an absolutely amazing one of a kind masterpiece, makes me want to drive across the desert country..
I think he could have and should have been a blues singer. That amazing music was evolving right when he started coming up. He could have changed everything as we know it, but also get completely ignored by the mainstream at the same time.
His holy roller period was better than his current (2000-present) period
Dylan fans get butt hurt over many things. Too many to mention here.
Rob stoners backing vocals sucked
Thankfully only one nut in this thread saying something negative about Blood on the Tracks.
The live performance in the Isle of Wight Festival on August 31, 1969 was probably his best live performance. Or at least one of the best concerts. It should have been released as a live album. Desire < Blood On the Tracks << Planet Waves < Before the Flood Oh Mercy is the best Bob Dylan recording at least since his live performance in Forum de Montreal on December 4, 1975
He’s just a song and dance man.
All the Tired Horses is sublime. He’s not it even singing, yet you know it’s him
His “comeback” in 1997 never really happened. He just started making old timey blues music that pandered to what critics like
His records are best listened to alone with attentiveness unless you’re with a group of other Dylan fans. Highway 61/Blonde on Blonde are exceptions that are pretty good “party” music in the right setting. But trying to put on a Dylan album around non Dylan fans and people are taking while you’re trying to catch all of the verses is often irritating. Also you can feel when other people don’t like it while you’re listening which dampens the experience.
Opinion 2: it’s annoying when you’re trying to sing along with the songs live and he makes sure the phrases are always as far away from what you expect as possible. I get that it’s his whole thing, but its still frustrating.
Every decade is better than the last.. I don't know that I strictly believe that but I think he trended up as a function of time.
Oh Mercy isn’t that great other than Ring Them Bells and Man in the Long Black Coat. Shadow Kingdom version of What Was It You Wanted is way better
Bob Dylan was right for saying Joan Baez’s poetry was lousy
There's a tendency of certain dylan acolytes to frame Dylan as a person who "elevated popular song" with his words, but I think Dylan, while a genius songwriter, is highly underrated as an actual musician. People always talk about Blonde on Blonde, specifically Visions of Johanna, as this perfect jewel of a song from a lyrical standpoint, but it is, above all, music. It's not a poem set to music. It's a song that can work, to a certain extent, as a poem. But I don't believe that a wide lot of Dylan's catalog can actually transcend the man himself, contrary to people who say they "like covers, but can't stand the originals." But Visions of Johanna works so perfectly as music. If the music sucked, the lyrics wouldn't mean anything. And people overrated Dylan's lyrics sometimes. Leonard Cohen can, at times, write circles around Dylan on some very big topics. But Dylan is, above all, a great musician, and that's why people listen to him. His voices are usually on key, his phrasing is impeccable and god-like, his playing can be grand, and he has a real knack for picking his bands. He can put on an awesome show. Also also, I don't think Dylan is particularly bright about a lot of things. I also think he's a genius in his craft. If he had become anything else, I think he really would have suffered. I also think he knew that from an early age, and pushed himself to the literal limit of his abilities to get the hell out of that reality. He wanted to be in show business. And one more thing. Dylan is not nor has ever been a hippie. He also isn't a baby boomer, nor has much association with classical boomer 60's acts, being much more an early 60's act with, in some ways, 50's sensibilities that passed on the torch to the Beatles, Doors, etc after he disappeared in 66.
"Early Roman Kings" is better than anything that preceded it.
It’s Alright, Ma (I’m Only Bleeding) >> Desolation Row and Visions of Johanna
Until the end of Cold War, Bob Dylan would reinvent his style and his substance as well every 3-4 years. He would evolve, grow, and age into some new form each time. Each new iteration of Bob Dylan would produce the new format, the new approach, and the new paradigm. Each iteration had its own characteristic poetic structure, its characteristic poetic style of presentation, its own vocal attack of the sung material. As a result, this had a direct effect on how Bob Dylan’s looks, image, voice, and singing style was changing every 3-4 years during the first 30-35 years of his celebrityhood. However, since early 1990s, he has become predictably stable. In the past 30-35 years, he has become, shall I say, the same. This can be noticed in his looks, style, voice, singing patterns, and the poetic structure and presentation. As a result, I claim the following: Love and Theft is Time Out of Mind Volume 2, Modern Times is Time Out of Mind Volume 3, Together Through Life is Time Out of Mind Volume 4, and so on. Rough and Rowdy Ways is Time Out of Mind Volume number … Of course they are all very good albums. I just want to point out is that Bob Dylan had crystallized into one form around the time of the end of the Cold War, and he keeps true to this form.
His voice has gotten better over the decades.
Should stuck with the Dead for way longer, imagine if they had wrote anything together.
I'm furious! What's wrong with brownsville girl? Apart from some loose backing vocals, it's a great track! Anyway, I didn't like his slow train coming album much.
Rough and Rowdy Ways is top 10