[https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376)
According to this science journal from McMaster University, *"With protein supplementation, protein intakes at amounts greater than \~1.6 g/kg/day do not further contribute RET-induced gains in FFM."*
So **more than 0.73g per pound** is not necessarily more effective. Additionally, consuming larger amounts of protein can have determinantal effects including reduced renal capacity.
Don't listen to the gym bro pseudo-science saying you need 1.5g/pound. Pretty sure they are just confusing the kg metric lmao.
The problem with quoting this number is that people think they need to hit this to gain muscle. Everyone always talks about the maximum, but you never hear about what’s a good amount of protein to eat to make progress and not obsess over every meal.
You can still gain muscle at a good rate eating 20-30% less protein. And there are also studies that show even less protein is optimal then that 1.6g/kg number. This number is already on the high-end. So if it’s more sustainable to eat less protein for you then that is definitely what you should do. This is all about what you can do and enjoy long term.
That's interesting thanks for sharing. I've been doing personal training for about 9 months. I've been told numbers all over the map including 1 gram per pound. I'm vegan and just don't naturally eat 130 grams of protein a day. It seems way too much. at 130lbs this seems to indicate that 70 grams a day could be sufficient. Does that sound right? I'm also not trying to bulk up necessary. I work out to be healthy. I'm never going to be huge.
1g/kg is the minumum every one should take. 0.73g/lb is max benefits on average with around 0.8g/lb to account for the upper end of standard deviation. Going above that is only really for simplicity purposes or if your on gear or something. The benefit is also not linear. At 200lbs, going from 100g to 110g will be a bigger difference than going from 130g to 140g.
I’m in the same boat I’ve been getting bigger but struggling to gain weight you gotta eat so much food or eat a lot of protein powders and I cant really justify devoting that much of my diet to powder if feels wrong. I eat a lot of peanut butter, nuts and stuff but never get to 140 grams
I was talking with my trainer and they said that is much harder to gain weight for people like me than it is for most people to lose weight. I just have a very high metabolism. I actually eat a lot but I burn right through it. I've given up trying to gain weight. I just want to make sure I'm eating enough to maintain. I have a whole foods smoothie in the morning that is about 500 calories. It's a good mix of protein, fat, and carbs. I eat a good lunch and dinner and tend to snack on fruit and nuts. That seems to do the trick. When I eat too clean sometimes I feel like I need to add oil to it to add some calories. I agree. I've just decided it is too much work and overeating is good for you either. Breakfast and snacks has really just been the thing I try get in.
Had the same problem, I just went heavy on my morning protein shake and it did the trick. I added A LOT of peanut or almond butter to my morning shake going from 500to 1,000+ for breakfast and all of the sudden I was gaining a couple pounds a month
Couldn’t disagree with this statement more. There are many many studies looking at this and the HIGH number to optimize muscle gain is closer to 1 gram of protein PER POUND of LBM. The biggest issue though in these studies is the exercise routine. If there isn’t proper stimulus in the weight room, additional protein won’t do squat. If there is optimal stimulus, there probably will be greater benefit to more protein. Most resistance training studies are poor. Many use untrained college kids whose motivation and habits are very questionable. Also although beginners grow much more rapidly than seasoned lifters, they do not gain much actual muscle tissue the first month or so of training. Most initial gains are purely strength and neurological. And studies on experienced lifters are too random. If the study workout isn’t harder than what these people usually do, there won’t be any new growth. And then 250 grams of protein shouldn’t show any benefit over 100. Protein is the most important macronutrient. You can be completely healthy and optimized just eating protein and an adequate amount of fat for energy.
The 95% CI for that 1.6g estimate is (1.03; 2.20) g protein/kg body weight. With available data points on the graph, we see that at 1.2g there's still an observed chance to have negative change. So I'd say if we need *a number*, then anything above 1.2g (up to 2.2g) works (with the current data).
Gorilla cum. Ok 50/50 partners. I swear if we got some yoked idiot to market it on YouTube we would be able to sell gorilla cum pills. We would create a whole slew of sub genres with people claiming it has to be pure and fresh. We’d have hopeful Bros jerking off gorillas in the rainforest
I’ve been telling lifters for a decade the research has never supported 1g/pound and that anyone getting more than 1g/kg of LEAN body weight is definitely going to have the materials to build muscle. Optimal intake past that point depends on your goals and individual physiology. The really tough ones to reach were the people wanting to lose weight but were convinced they needed to get 200g of protein and the kcal that came with that to do it.
Yes. When younger and dumber I tried to get 200 G protein on a 1200 calorie diet. Lmao. That only leaves 400 calories for fat and carbs. It was very effective but I doubt it was very healthy. Luckily I was 22 so I was fairly invincible
I decided im gonna just stop overthinking this shit and work out listen to my body, every time i try to get this perfect its so many different opinions and it discourages me making me think im not doing things right, but fuck that, working out is better than not working out at all, i will figure out the rest as i go
This. Started working out 2 months ago, everyone was talking in my ear do this do that. Really confusing. I just eat what I wanted with the idea of having a mixed diet.
Put on 10LB of muscle 2 months.
Are you on any steroids? 10lbs of muscle in 2 months is crazy. Are you sure it's muscle and not fat? Even gaining 10 lbs of fat in 2 months is crazy. Unless you're a young newbie lifter. Mind sharing your diet and workout plan? I need to gain 10 lbs of muscle
Yeah it’s cool but depressing to look at graphs of average muscle gain after x years. At a certain point it’s like 0.5 lbs a year but anyone who’s at that point is absolutely shredded already
Not to say working out isnt Just the effort to get that last 1-2 lbs of muscle is probably not worth the additional effort unless you are a natural stage competitor
No steroids. I'm just a new lifter and quit nicotine at the same time. I was probably underweight to be honest.
Definitely not fat gain, I've always been slim. 10% body fat 10st6lb.
My diet is just good foods.
>So more than 0.73g per pound is not necessarily more effective.
Also I believe this is for **lean** body mass.
If you are an overweight person, you would want to eat close to the amount needed at your ideal weight rather than your current weight.
For those of us focusing on weight loss, that makes the protein target much more feasible within our caloric constraints.
Good point. I have also heard instead of .73g per pound you can use 1g per pound FFM. So a 300 pound man would need 180 if he was 40% BF. That is fairly inline with the other numbers. Maybe a little high
This seems to be from 2018 and there's a correction mention there. I say this because i think there was a recent study about this and it was proven the body was still processing the protein over time and that the excess of protein intake was not going all to waste as it was thought before. But im just saying this from the top of my head, im afraid i dont have any sources
A breakdown of the results of that review is here: https://youtu.be/P6GRoE7SYmI
I aim for at least 1.3 g/kg goal body weight, based on that review and these reviews:
* https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/79/1/66/5936522
* https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcsm.12922
30-50g is about all someone would need if they were just living a normal life, not lifting, not really exercising past like a walk in the evenings. It’s the rough necessity level.
Honestly, use 1.1g/kg, find out your lean weight, pick your ideal weight, then keep your daily intake in the range between those two. If you find you aren’t headed toward meeting the goals you wanted after 6 weeks or so adjust the 1.1 up or down by 0.1 at a time.
?? I didn't?
But the RDA for protein is 0.8 g/kg. For most people who aren't working out, that's enough. 1.3 is because I'm working out and trying to build muscle.
The RDA isn't a rock bottom minimum. It is from studies on sedentary people, but there's a generous buffer of 2 standard deviations added, so that it should meet or exceed the requirements of 97.5% of the general population.
>Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDA), the daily dietary intake level of a nutrient considered sufficient by the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine to meet the requirements of 97.5% of healthy individuals in each life stage and sex group. The definition implies that the intake level would cause a harmful nutrient deficiency in just 2.5%. It is calculated based on the EAR and is usually approximately 20% higher than the EAR. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Reference_Intake
>Estimated Average Requirements (EAR), are expected to satisfy the needs of 50% of the people in that age group based on a review of the scientific literature.
The EAR for protein is 0.66 g/kg. Actual requirements for protein vary widely, and an individual's actual protein requirement is somewhere between 0.5 and 0.8 g/kg.
I love a good meta analysis. Hard to argue with them. But after reading through I still have one question you might know if you are more familiar with the meta data. Do any of the 49 studies include data on people who have already reached about 80% of their genetic potential? I am curious because with weight training for example, there is a certain very simple program and progression option that is great for almost everyone except those trying to get that last 20%. For these individuals they do wind up needing an ever higher volume to reach muscle synthesis.
Wondering if the same is true for protein. I completely agree that the 1 gram per pound BW is complete bro science. I have heard some other formulas that are more based on FFM but they are still rather high.
But specifically I am 200lbs and 12% BF. I believe there are about 10 more pounds of muscle available, but I only plan to shoot for about 5 more. The people that reach natural potential have to be full time bodybuilders…
Anyway, I keep going back and forth on how much protein is really necessary. Currently getting about 170 grams per day. But I have to drink protein shakes to get there. I think my life would be easier if I only needed 120.
Not to mention the extra 200 calories I could get from delicious carbs 😬
Actually it’s very easy to argue with a meta analysis. Bc the researchers usually cherry pick the studies they use. It looks good bc they’re combining 10, 20, maybe 50 studies but many times they have an agenda and are purposely including certain studies and excluding others. You should definitely have high skepticism on any meta analysis. Many meta analysis prove to be inaccurate over time.
Good to know. I guess I overly trust the meta analysis because of a fitness guy I follow. But he kind of does his own meta analysis of studies or a meta analysis of meta analysis. He DOES sell supplements but spends most of his time telling you that you don’t need them at all and that they are at most 4-5% of the equation. Things like “if you were going to lose 8 pounds this month the research shows this could get you to 9 lbs”. Or “if you eat 5-7 servings of fruits and veggies you don’t need a multivitamin, but if you don’t here is one without a bunch of junk and filler”.
It might be that he’s honest or it might be the best marketing strategy ever… I guess it could be both.
Not sure when this journal was written but I read a recent study that there’s actually no cap to protein intake. As a matter of fact I believe 90-95% of the protein that would be considered excess is absorbed.
This! Also to OP, this is very doable on most diets. I’m vegan and as long as I’m eating Whole Foods and not processed stuff, I can hit this pretty easily without even supplementing. Should be even easier if someone is eating meat, just takes a basic level of planning! Would recommend using MyFitnessPal or Cronometer to track your food for a few weeks and see if you’re getting enough already
I work in a vegetarian restaurant, and I definitely eat *more* protein on work days. An order of seitan "chicken" tenders has like 120g of protein. Also, we blend beans into the seitan to hit all the amino acids. It's getting easier and easier to cut out meat
>An order of seitan "chicken" tenders has like 120g of protein.
120 g of protein is about 400 g of cooked chicken...
Edit: I read something wrong in the OP originally, but glad for the replies - now I know seitan exists!
So this is kind of the recipe that I started with but I didn't have the chickpeas so I just subbed black beans. I also use sesame oil instead of liquid smoke. And it was honestly the best seitan I've made to date so that's how I do it now. If you are feeling lazy and just want to mush up your beans too that works fine you will just end up with the bits of the bean skins instead of a more uniform texture.
[https://www.lowlyfood.com/recipe/the-ultimate-seitan-roast/](https://www.lowlyfood.com/recipe/the-ultimate-seitan-roast/)
That's good. remember you want to have an even higher protein intake if you're consuming all vegetarian sources, due to the amino acid profiles being different from animal sources
Seitan is the lowest on the list when rating by protein digestibility though…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Protein_digestibility_corrected_amino_acid_score&diffonly=true
Vegan here and I can definiteny hit that amount. Anyway the science is that people measured the point at which consuming more protein wouldn't increase muscle growth any more. That was estimated to be 1.6g protein per kg of bodyweight.
Anyway here was my meal plan when I was on a cut. 70kg
Oats with peanut butter powder. 30g
2 Vegemite sandwiches. 25g
Protein shake with soy milk. 30g
Curry. Rice, lentils, tofu, veggies. 25g
110g protein with 1700kcal.
No, 25g total divided between two sandwiches. Still salty anyway and I kinda built up a tolerance of it. If I had that much the first time I would wince.
As per [this](https://www.fatsecret.com.au/calories-nutrition/vegemite/vegemite/1-tsp?frc=True) information 5g of Vegemite has 1.30gm of protein and 9kCal of energy.
So 25gm will be 6.5g of protein. So from two vegemite sandwiches I don't think you can get 25g protein (100g bread has about 9gm protein - approx)
The bread I get has 187 kcal and 9g protein per sandwich, so it's almost 20% kcal from protein. I can get even more if I make my own bread. In 500g of flour, I replace 100g with vital wheat gluten, and for even more protein replace another 100g with pea and soy protein.
My own Vegemite is the reduced salt version which I guess has a tiny bit more protein. Cronometer says this meal gives 24.8g protein.
If you like PB2, you should consider just buying some organic peanut flour. PB2 has added sugar and also salt, IIRC. Peanut flour is the same thing nutritionally - like proten-wise - but without added sugar/salt
Just to give a differing opinion, peanut butter powder is awful. It's taken me a year to get through my tub of pb2 cause I eat it begrudgingly. But the only peanut butter I like is jif(extra crunchy my fav), all the other brands and types are just chalky or flavorless/mediocre to me.
Yes, the 2% of hydrogenated oils and 2 gram more of sugar makes jif peanut butter far better than the "organic/natural" types that have maybe 1% better nutritional profile but 0% enjoyment for tasting like ass chalk.
Peanut butter powder has decent peanut butter flavor when mixed into things like oats, smoothies, sauces, etc but I think its a pretty disappointing substitute for actual peanut butter as a spread on toast and stuff. The instructions say to mix it with a little water to make a spread but it's quite sad without all the fat.
Not OP, but I'm also vegan. I've been a pretty clean eating vegan for 2 years and was a pretty clean eating pescetarian for 2 years before that. I just got a blood test last week. My total cholesterol dropped by nearly half after becoming vegan and my LDL dropped to almost a 1/3 of its old level. My liver enzymes also came into the normal range for the first time in my life (my first measurement was when I was as a kid and I'm now in my 30s). I've found no difference at all in recovery after switching from whey to vegan protein powders and my weight hasn't changed at all (I wanted to maintain my weight). My testosterone is on the high end of the range for a man my age (it's 16.26 and the healthy range is 12.4-17.3). As an aside, I got way more nocturnal erections once I became vegan. That coupled with my insane cholesterol improvements make me think veganism has been very kind to my whole cardiovascular system.
I don't know what foods were guilty, but it was something (or multiple things) I dropped. People say fish omega 3s are great for cholesterol but my levels were too high despite eating a ton of sardines and mackerel. Every day I'd have a can. All I know is that my levels massively improved and at the very least vegan protein powder did not hurt my cholesterol.
You don't want just lentils and beans. Soy products (tofu, tempeh) and seitan are the best when it comes to amount of protein per 100g from plant sources.
I am a 6'2, 225lb (athletic build, and I have a very broad skeleton so my muscles are large) vegan and I make a protein powder blend. It is equal parts soy protein isolate, pea protein, and brown rice protein. I buy them separately and mix them all together. Take it from me, you NEED protein powder unless you want to eat like 80g of fiber a day or ungodly amounts of tofu. I've found as a vegan that I have to moderate my fiber because I'd always eat too much. I think WFPB isn't conducive to building muscle because of all the fiber. I'd keep eating whole legumes because they're so nutritious, but maybe have two scoops of powder a day. I like mixing the powders because it adds some diversity. And mix them with a liquid that has vitamin C so you can absorb iron from the powders. My iron levels are really good because I do that and I never supplement with iron. By the way, I eat 120g protein to maintain, so 160 would be plenty for building at my size.
Hard to put a hard number since we're all different, but I found I can handle around 40-50g a day. Ironically, too much fiber makes you constipated because it sucks up so much water. I also live in the tropics so losing water through sweat and to fiber made it very hard to properly hydrate. Also, too much fiber (particularly whole wheat pasta and bread) made me very low energy because the energy release was so slow throughout the day. Finally, too much fiber is very satiating, so it's hard to eat enough calories which further affects energy levels. I now save my fiber for veggies and legumes and then stuff like pasta and bread I never eat as whole grains.
It depends. Research has shown that novices need more protein than advanced lifters, for example. It also depends on if one is doing consistent, high intensity training or if they're sedentary or somewhere in between. Some recent research found that most strength athletes can optimize gains with about 1.6g per Kg. This is about .72g per lb. It's also a good idea to factor in body composition. If somebody is overweight, they'll be fine calculating their protein needs based on goal bodyweight because it's their lean body mass they're trying to support, not their fat mass.
I'm vegan, one of my protein shakes if made with soy milk is 36g protein. Two a day is 72g.
My granola in the morning is 30g
Lunch is leftover dinner from the night before, and is typically anything amounting to 30-50g protein (just add more seitan - one homemade steak = 42g, use components that are protein friendly etc)
Total without snacks = 160 - 200g based on these numbers. And my go to snack is pitta and hummus which are another 10-15g or so. I'm 75kg, consume around 2300cals
It's really not difficult to consume protein on a plant based diet
Just a protein granola from aldi that I have a big old bowl of
Per 100g:
Energy 1851kJ, 441kcal
Fat 16g
of which saturates 2.7g
Carbohydrate 44g
of which sugars 18g
Fibre 6.0g
Protein 27g
Salt 0.91g
Bag is 400g total and I go through 2 a week
basic [harvest crunch granola](https://images.app.goo.gl/qtv1bqQHVbjWN1E4A) is 10g of protein per 100g.. which is pretty easy to eat. add 300g of soy milk, some nuts, some chia seeds, and you're pretty close to 30g protein. i also add some berries or other fruit to it.
i eat that for work, make it the night before and let it sit in fridge overnight. tastes great.
This is what people don't understand, they're like "How do you get protein". It's like, dude, proteins is the least of my worries compared to iron, B12, Omega-3 and what have you. Also how do YOU not eat too much saturated fat and carcinogenic red meat? It really isn't the vegans health you should be worried about
Do you make your own seitan? If not, where do you get it?
Thanks for the tip about the protein granola from Aldi. I shop there every week and haven’t seen that one yet.
[Seitan Steak](https://itdoesnttastelikechicken.com/wprm_print/vegan-seitan-steak) here
[Plain bulk seitan](https://www.kathysvegankitchen.com/seitan-protein/) here, I make a lot of this at once and marinate it for the week ahead.
I'll make one or the other each week for the family, even the meat eaters enjoy it. Large(ish) up front cost, bur cheap per portion and super healthy/tasty when you've got the knack
On the aldi granola, just been and they seem to have swapped it out annoyingly. Might still have stock near you though, just keep an eye out because it's protein content is nuts
Great, thanks for the links! I’ve been pushing a reductatarian approach to eating meat in our home. Have two grade school kids who love my lentil stew and chickpea minestrone, but they won’t touch tofu and I’m hard up for finding some new ways to provide yummy meat free dinners. I’ll give this a try!
I reckon the steaks are your better bet, just because they're easier to make tender and juicy, the bulk seitan I find tends to be a little tougher and more spongey, but there's lots of variables to tweak in the recipe. Basically less kneading = much much softer texture, and the steak recipe requires less kneading. But they absorb flavour super well so you can make them taste however your kids like
Look up Humapro.
It’s a vegan protein source
I replaced all my whey with it for last 3 years
It’s maybe 80% of my protein intake daily.
I’m around 6’3 / 250 pounds and one of the stronger guys you’d meet
It works
I’m looking at it now. There’s a Father’s Day sale that has me ready to pull the trigger.
I’ve used different EAAs and BCAAs before. Is this kind of the same thing or a different animal? I workout in the morning (hard spin class twice a week, lifting 5 days), and I do so on an empty stomach. This is something I’d take before my workout, after, or both?
I’m 5’10” and around 175. Would like to cut up just a bit more, maybe get into the mid 160s. So I’m generally in a caloric deficit, and like the idea of boosting nutrition/protein while getting rid of a few more calories.
Thanks ✌️
Just think if it as muscle food. That’s all protein is.
So you want to constantly feed it into your body every day working out or not.
I put 3 scoops (3x25g) in 2 litres of water 3 x a day. Drink it slowly all day.
That’s around200 grams of protein
But it’s almost zero cals so it’s completely fine if my body doesn’t process all of that
Basically there’s zero chance you don’t get enough protein to support your muscle gains if it do what I do - or say 2 scoops 3 times a day
I recommend orange or pineapple flavour
Bitter apple one sucks
>But it’s almost zero cals so it’s completely fine if my body doesn’t process all of that
What?? This is nonsense. Protein has calories. There's no such thing as zero-calorie protein. Your body can break down protein and use it for energy. Therefore it has calories.
A gram of protein is about 4 calories, so 200 grams of protein are 800 grams of calories. Your body uses a small percentage of that to actually digest the protein, so it may be more like 600 calories, but it's still very much non-negligible.
I don't know how they're allowed to say such BS on their label. [This thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/8278e7/is_this_snake_oil_seems_too_good_to_be_true_25g/) on Reddit has some ideas.
Edit:
Bwa ha ha, worked it out (partly from [this post](https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/humapro-again.230289/#post-4007513)). It claims 1 scoop, which is 7.5g, has the "equivalent" of 25 g of protein. If you believe 7.5 grams of powder can have as much protein as 25 grams of protein, I have a bridge to sell you. Instead they're pulling a fast one and saying it's the same amount of BCAA+EAAs you'd have in 25 grams of protein. But there's a heck of a lot more in protein than just BCAA+EAAs.
If you really want tons of BCAAs, this is a fine powder, but you're in no way eating 200 grams of protein by eating 9 scoops of this stuff.
Isn't 1g per pound like what bodybuilders take when they have excessively low body fat and are trying to lose weight for competitions? I think they eat excessive amounts of protein to prevent as much muscle loss as the body cannibalizes itself
For gaining weight and building muscle it makes sense it'd be lower. I always thought it should be based on lean body mass (subtracting body fat percent)
Pretty sure it’s per kilogram and you’re just running into Americans that don’t know how to handle unit translation. The 1g figure can vary though, based on your activity level and personal health. See a dietician and doc if your uric acid levels are up — you do NOT want to get gout.
This is new to me. Any research source?
Estimating body fat is difficult, so if the current advice applies total body weight, it should be the more practical advice.
As another comment pointed out the science says there's no benefit to more than 1.6g/kg. For me that works out to 130g of protein. I'm vegan and I can meet that pretty easily without using protein powders.
1g/kg is the minimum. 0.8g/lb will reach max benefits for pretty much everyone unless you are on gear or something. 1g/lb for people on gear, or if you just keed an easy reference point to remember. The benefit isnt necessarily linear. The benefits get propertionally lower the higher you go.
I just eat a pound of meat a day and my muscles been growing better than ever, but im not trying to be big. I just been working out alot and i see some nice development even on a 1 pound of meat. Its usually ground beef 70/30 lean/fat and thats like 65g of protein and i weigh 140
Renaissance Periodization has a free YouTube mini series about the science of fat loss (you can use it for muscle building as well). Mike Israetel is a professor of exercise science and breaks down some of this information. I think it’s good stuff
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyqKj7LwU2RulAjHczohbx5OyJQ8TaFM0&si=81JD8az6XzUMUJes
I just eat more full if I want to bulk and less if I want to slim. I don't care about carbos/fat/proteins I just eat healthy stuff with micronutrients and things that I like. Not optimal but I think so many people worry about protein too much. They act like they think they can't get fat from protein. In the end it's calories + the work you did
I still can make gains with 90-100g protein per day. They told you to eat 2g/lb protein per day is total BS. Too much protein is overrated. We are being lied on many things.
Vegan here, as long as I’m conscious of what I’m eating, I can easily hit 180g of protein a day.
Generally my target is a minimum of 170g (32m, 6’ 2”, 94kg) and I have been seeing much quicker recovery and progress than when I aimed for 130g of protein a day!
I’d say pretty easily with a balanced diet. You have to be intentional though.
I’m a big consumer of soy products and high protein soy products are very good sources for vegans. 200g of tempeh has 40-45g of protein. 100ml of Alpro Soya milk is 5g of protein which makes milky teas and coffees a good ‘top up’. I also like Quorn which is all very good sources of protein.
When I’m short of protein intake, I generally have a plant based protein shake which is 40g of protein for 200ish calories. Soya protein yoghurt is 200g with 15g of protein.
I do have pulses, lentils, beans, etc. But generally they don’t have as high protein per gram which means you have to consume a lot of volume to get the same protein intake.
Definitely not saying that it’s easier as a vegan than it is eating meat, dairy etc. I think you have to make more conscious decisions as a vegan to hit higher protein intakes.
I aim for around 2100 calories a day and manage 170-180g protein with relative ease.
The value I heard was .8g protein/kg bodyweight at least per day, whether you’re building muscle or not. If you’re building muscle I’ve heard 1.2g-2.2g per kg bodyweight is what you go for. In clearer terms you’re 83.91kg so you need about 69 g protein for normal daily function and about 101g-184g for muscle building. You could probably aim for the lower end of that one and be good to go. But yeah, if you eat more, different macro nutrients do different things. Carbohydrates give you the energy you need to go through your day-to-day activities and pretty much to move and function. Fats give you necessary fatty acids for brain function and nutrient absorption at least, and a couple of fatty acids we can’t make on our own so that’s why we need some fat daily. Protein is necessary for muscle growth and repair at least. Every time you work out your muscles it’s creating tiny tears that need to be repaired in order for your muscle to grow stronger.
When they talk about bulking, I assume that it’s just streamlining the process of muscle growth and focusing on growing your muscles instead of losing weight. Because when you lose weight, you lose fat, muscle, and you may use more sugar (carbohydrates) in your blood as well. It’s usually a longer process if you try to lose weight and build muscle at the same time, but it can be done. That’s what I do because I’m short and I shrink away at the idea of bulking at all. It’s too noticeable on my smaller frame. But it’s not necessary to do it that way. The point is you do need specifically protein for your muscles. But the amount they mentioned is miscalculated I think.
I’ve heard we can only absorb 40 g of protein at a time per meal just so you’re aware. There are a lot of veggie sources of protein. Getting some veggies in your diet would help you keep up your sugar in your blood level for daily activities. The complex carbs allow you to eat less often and keep up blood sugar so that it’s not going too high or too low.
Rule of thumb is to aim for the lbs you want to be. At least, that worked for me. Ignore avoiding carbs, carbs aren't the devil and are actually good for you if you workout.
Practically 1g/kg protein is needed for lean muscle requirement. Don’t think much and follow this if you want a lean muscle mass. If bulk go for higher side of protein. Consume whey protein if you are concerned about cholesterol and meat releases diet.
A person at my gym said about eighty Grams of protein a day. The Internet told me something different. Me get as much as I can but I find it hard at times. So to sum it up idk.
Getting 185g of protein as a vegan is pretty easy if you have a protein shake in the morning and include foods like tofu or TVP as well as lentils and beans to get 50-60g protein per meal. I've been getting 160-200+ grams per day as a vegan for like 2 years now
Personally id reccomend atleast 1g per lb of bodyweight. Ive built more muscle that way and faster than with less.
You have to try REALLY hard to have too much protein. I still have to try to get 1g per lb of bodyweight in my calorie defecit. In my bulk I wouldnt even be able to get over 1.3g per lb. Even up to 1.5g per lb of bodyweight, youre fine, and you may even see better results from 1.3-1.5g/lb.
do not be concerned about your cholesterol. If you are eating healthy, whole foods, INCLUDING eggs (which people say not to have a lot of because of cholesterol) you do not have to worry about high blood cholesterol. Theres a difference between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol. Dietary cholesterol affects your blood cholesterol by about 20-30%. The rest is made by your body. The reason why people get high blood cholesterol is because they are having unhealthy foods, like fast food, processed foods, junk foods etc. If you end up getting high blood cholesterol, it is NOT because you are eating red meats or eggs. Its because you are having mcdonalds, burger king, and other unhealthy foods.
Its not a lot of meat to get 185g of protein. As someone who is 160lbs, here is how I get 160-190g of protein: 6eggs (usually half whole eggs half egg whites), 300g greek yogurt, 200ish grams of lean meat (chicken or salmon), protein shake (milk, protein powder). Thats about it. I get a few more grams of protein from other random foods too. And by the way, I dont have these foods alone. I include lots of fruits, vegetables, seasoning etc to make the meals taste delicious and to get all my RDIs for vitamins and minerals.
As the top comment said, you need a lot less than what most people blindly repeat. I would also add that the number often cited is just the maximum that leads to more muscle growth. You can get away with significantly less protein as long as you are above the RDA (0.8g/kg), since as you increase the protein intake there are quickly diminishing returns to muscle gain.
How you apply this depends on your situation. For me since I want to gain muscle and gain weight, I focus mainly on just eating a slight calorie surplus, and not eating crap. I'm almost always well above the RDA (usually around 1.5g/kg) without even thinking about protein and I'm vegan.
I think in my situation what matters way more is eating enough calories since its a lot harder to build muscle without a caloric surplus, and its really difficult to not get enough protein on a caloric surplus unless you are literally just eating candy or something.
You don’t need 185 grams. You also might not need to be at a caloric surplus depending on your current body composition. If you are 15% bf I would guess you already have a bit of muscle and you might need a moderate surplus of 300 calories per day and about 120 grams of protein. But if you are 20% bf or more, that would indicate you do not have a lot of muscle mass. That is OK. At that level you could actually eat a defecit and still gain muscle. And probably 100 grams of protein would be fine.
I have no science to back this up but mainly experience in bulking when you bulk ovbi you gotta be in a calorie surplus what I've done is I have my goal weight let's say 200lbs and I weigh 180 my protein intake would be 200gs and around 300 to 400gs of carbs and your fats depend on how lean you wanna bulk up I think a 1 pound = to 1g of protein is very beneficial I used to weigh 108 and I'm at 185lb rn after about a year and a half of bulking I'm aiming to hit 200 in a few months and this is how I'm doing it's also I've never really seen a vegan with muscles but I do know there's plant based protein supplements made from beans and that
1.6g per per 1 kg of bw seems to be the goal from what I've seen in the natural fitness community, anything beyond that seems to go right to the sewage... if you are roided up tho, then it's a different story
don't overthink it, have some kind of a protein every meal and you're golden
Here's my understanding... correct me if I'm wrong.
Protein 1g/lb even though you only need .73g/lb. You need complete proteins with all 9 essential amino acids like you get from animal sources, meat, dairy, eggs, etc. A lot of plant proteins are incomplete proteins. When you track your macros, you don't have to be as critical about your protein source. Vegans more than likely supplement.
Protein/calories. You can't build something from nothing. That's why you go to calorie surplus. To build larger muscles, you need to gain weight, not a lot but some. As I understand it, calories are the fuel and protein is the building material. Think of it this way you need labor and materials to build a house. Labor = calories / material = protein.
185 x 4 = 740 calories of protein. In a 2k diet thats 37% ifnyour calories. Its not excessive and leaves plenty of room for veggies, carbs, and healthy fats. There are plenty of non meat proteins available. Many greek yogurts are 20g per serving, cottage cheese, eggs, tofu, etc. I try to limit myself to 1 serving of meat per day, and eat high protein non meat foods and supplement with a vegan protein powder if i have to.
Honestly why do people talk about it so much? Eat what you want, do you get bigger? No? More food.... It's no science... And if you want to be 100% certain aim for 1 g per pound / 2g per kg that's what I was told and it worked. It's not so hard to hit this caps. I love mozzarella and one 250g mozzarella already has has around 44g protein sometimes I eat 2 a day. 88g protein which is already half my need if I go for the 2 g per kg rule. Then I eat 5 eggs a day as snacks, 1 egg = 100 g = 13g protein (says Google) 5 X 13 =65 g. Without eating 1 real meal I'm almost at the goal, obviously you don't need 5 eggs or 2 mozzarella but just to show you how easy it can be...
Cholesterol does not cause heart disease. Meat is not bad for you. In fact, meat is great for you as you age. It contains the 4 C’s (in high dosages) that are essential for optimal functioning as we age.
Creatine
CoQ10
CLA
Carnosine
So tired of seeing people thinking otherwise. The cholesterol theory of heart disease is the biggest scam of modern times and probably of all time since many millions of people have died following erroneous advice.
So what causes heart disease? And why do people that eat lots of meat get heart disease?
If a person has cholesterol, then he should just ignore it and not work on lowering it?
Sugar, excessive carb intake, Inflammation and blood clots. Full body inflammation and increased clotting factors are the major causes but believe it or not, we have much to learn still about heart disease. As for meat - we’ve been told for 60 years now to avoid red meat. So epidemiology studies (99% of nutrition studies) are now heavily biased. People who eat the most red meat don’t listen to health advice and doctors. So they also smoke more, don’t go to the doctor, don’t eat a lot of healthy unprocessed foods and even have a much higher percentage of “accidental deaths”. Also most high meat eaters aren’t eating prime steaks. Many eat fast food and an absolute glutton of starches and other unhealthy carbs. And yet even with all of that the average increase in mortality in high meat eaters is 16-17%. In an epidemiology study, this isn’t even a high enough percentage to do further research. For example, cigarette smoking and cancer has a correlation of 300-500% increase in cancers. THAT was the gold standard for epidemiology - a multiple 100%+ correlation.
You really don’t need that much protein. I’m 5’9 and went from 150 to 180lbs (over 2-3 years or so) at about 100g protein a day as a vegetarian. Some days less protein, some days more.
I’m not a vegetarian, but I’ve had the same experience. Some days I wonder if I even reach 100g of protein, yet I’ve build a considerable amount of lean muscle over the years. I push myself and the gym, and I’ve gotten stronger and bigger, yet I never followed the prescribed “protein plan”.
Yeah, I think there is way too much focus on the “optimal” amount of protein where the marginal gains are super small per additional gram of protein. You really just need to be consistent with your workouts and have decent diet that has decent protein. The consistency is like 75% of it.
Vegans build muscle like anyone else and, while nobody likes to read/hear it, if you eat enough calories from a varied diet, you will get enough protein. Overall calories are important here; a small increase will see you increase muscle mass with consistency and hard work.
One ‘hack’ I use when I need extra calories is to blend up a can of white beans into a smoothie; tonnes of nutrients, high protein.
I have a bunch of white beans dried that I need to use and have considered this.
I currently use silken tofu along with pea protein but would like add variety to the protein source. This is a good idea.
I was vegan for over 15 years and still eat a mostly plant based diet. Protein is very easy to come by. For me, the biggest thing is eating a surplus. I would have to intentionally not eat enough protein to not get enough protein. It's harder for me to "overeat" which I need to do in order to bulk. If you are eating enough food and have a varied diet, you're probably fine. I started drinking protein shakes just to throw in some extra after work outs but I'm not sure if it's even necessary.
Can you elaborate on how you did this? I tried to plan a vegetarian meal that hits 50g @ 700 kcal and the only way I could find was to combine a lot of tofu with lentils. It seems like you would have to eat large quantities of tofu and legumes every day to hit macros.
In addition to the smoothie, I eat a lot of meals with varying combinations of beans/legumes/tofu and rice/quinoa. I eat much more than a serving size would suggest for most things. My snacks between meals consist of energy bars, trail mix, and fruit.
> I would have to intentionally not eat enough protein to not get enough protein.
>I started drinking protein shakes just to throw in some extra after work outs but I'm not sure if it's even necessary.
Im calling complete bullshit on this lol. Shakes not even necessary and you just magically get enough protein with zero trying on a vegan diet AND its hard for you to overeat, so youre not even eating large quantities of these vegan foods???
Only way this makes sense to me is youre one of those vegans who thinks 40g of protein a day is enough for a male athlete or something. Which I have seen.
It sounds like you need to be getting more lean protein from fish in chicken. The 1 G per 1 lb of healthy body weight is accurate. There are plenty of doctors in the fitness space that recommend that. Dr. Gabriel Lyon comes to mind. It is a lot of food and you are a very big person, so you're going to need to eat a lot of food. Like you're already doing stick to whole foods. Practice protein cycling where you're eating the same amount of protein each meal. And be sure to be doing your strength training. You've got this.
No one really eats red meat for bulking. You need chicken (breast), tuna, eggs and dairy. Low cholesterol and not as bad for gout (check w/doctor for sure though) and you can hit 1.2-1.6g per kg pretty easy on most days.
Ok, then drink milk. Sometimes you're gonna have to weigh evidence for and against a choice, and make a decision for yourself. Personally, i think the benefits are minimal, overall there's better protein sources, but if you need it for some reason, then it's not the worst thing to put in your body. Overall we're all just strangers trying to do our best, so i can't actually tell you what's optimal for your own body. Either take the advice as written, or talk to a professional, since all your research is contradictory.
There is nothing wrong with milk but we are all different... I can lay in cholesterol ans it doesn't go up... almost 50 and its in the sweet spot just the way I was born...
From exrx:
> It has been found that 2.0 to 2.2 g/kg/day of protein was barely sufficient to maintain nitrogen balance during moderate intensity weight training.
In practice I take 2/3 of the 2g as whey and wing the rest.
It's worth noting that if you are in any kind of bulking scenario, your protein needs are not as high as being in a cutting scenario. While cutting you probably want your protein to be pretty high to reduce the amount of muscle weight lost and to skew the % lost towards fat mass.
When bulking, your proteins will be much more able to be available for use in muscle building so you don't need to have as much.
The actual answer, it depends on what you want to do.
This is an interesting relevant study from recent years:
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38118410/#:\~:text=Using%20a%20comprehensive%20quadruple%20isotope,ingestion%20of%2025%20g%20protein](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38118410/#:~:text=Using%20a%20comprehensive%20quadruple%20isotope,ingestion%20of%2025%20g%20protein)
I just found out the answer to this the other day, check out this podcast episode:
https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/j4hln2vl/protein-are-you-getting-enough
The short answer is: between 0.8 - 1.6 g of protein for every kg of body weight
I don't know real numbers bzt do aim for 1,5g/kg.
You dont have to eat meat for it. There is much protein in dairy products and nuts. Hitting auch a protein goal with a normal daily life and obligations is rather tricky without shakes for me though.
And for the calories part: your body needa to be in a metabolic state where it is able to build new instead of consume existing tissue.
Thats anabolic vs catabolic. When your body is lacking energy it switches to survival mode and doesnt "waste" resources into building huge muscle mass.
So calories dont build muscle, but they enable your body to do so as long as there is enough protein, training stimulus and time for recovery.
Too much protein is just hard on your kidneys. Even the upper limits of the recommended range will be way more than 99% of people need. Unless you are hardcore training 6 or 7 days a week your requirements will be much less
.6g/kg bw is minimum for repair and maintenance. 1.2 g/kg bw maximum strength trainer needs to work. 1.6 g/kg bw for 90mi+/week runners. Everything above that is renal failure. And you can use lean body mass for calculation technically
Ok don’t google “what happens if you eat too much protein?”
Better yet just talk to the 19 year old at the gym using Tren and eating two lbs of red meat a day. He’s obviously smart about fitness with the body he has…not the dude with a degree in kinesiology with emphasis in human physiology who has been working out since he was 12 and an ex collegiate champion.
[https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376) According to this science journal from McMaster University, *"With protein supplementation, protein intakes at amounts greater than \~1.6 g/kg/day do not further contribute RET-induced gains in FFM."* So **more than 0.73g per pound** is not necessarily more effective. Additionally, consuming larger amounts of protein can have determinantal effects including reduced renal capacity. Don't listen to the gym bro pseudo-science saying you need 1.5g/pound. Pretty sure they are just confusing the kg metric lmao.
The problem with quoting this number is that people think they need to hit this to gain muscle. Everyone always talks about the maximum, but you never hear about what’s a good amount of protein to eat to make progress and not obsess over every meal. You can still gain muscle at a good rate eating 20-30% less protein. And there are also studies that show even less protein is optimal then that 1.6g/kg number. This number is already on the high-end. So if it’s more sustainable to eat less protein for you then that is definitely what you should do. This is all about what you can do and enjoy long term.
That's interesting thanks for sharing. I've been doing personal training for about 9 months. I've been told numbers all over the map including 1 gram per pound. I'm vegan and just don't naturally eat 130 grams of protein a day. It seems way too much. at 130lbs this seems to indicate that 70 grams a day could be sufficient. Does that sound right? I'm also not trying to bulk up necessary. I work out to be healthy. I'm never going to be huge.
1g/kg is the minumum every one should take. 0.73g/lb is max benefits on average with around 0.8g/lb to account for the upper end of standard deviation. Going above that is only really for simplicity purposes or if your on gear or something. The benefit is also not linear. At 200lbs, going from 100g to 110g will be a bigger difference than going from 130g to 140g.
Thanks
This is the best answer and should have more up votes.
I’m in the same boat I’ve been getting bigger but struggling to gain weight you gotta eat so much food or eat a lot of protein powders and I cant really justify devoting that much of my diet to powder if feels wrong. I eat a lot of peanut butter, nuts and stuff but never get to 140 grams
I was talking with my trainer and they said that is much harder to gain weight for people like me than it is for most people to lose weight. I just have a very high metabolism. I actually eat a lot but I burn right through it. I've given up trying to gain weight. I just want to make sure I'm eating enough to maintain. I have a whole foods smoothie in the morning that is about 500 calories. It's a good mix of protein, fat, and carbs. I eat a good lunch and dinner and tend to snack on fruit and nuts. That seems to do the trick. When I eat too clean sometimes I feel like I need to add oil to it to add some calories. I agree. I've just decided it is too much work and overeating is good for you either. Breakfast and snacks has really just been the thing I try get in.
Had the same problem, I just went heavy on my morning protein shake and it did the trick. I added A LOT of peanut or almond butter to my morning shake going from 500to 1,000+ for breakfast and all of the sudden I was gaining a couple pounds a month
Every “you” in this post is really the operative word. Everyone is different.
I'm pretty sure the need goes up if you're on roids and thay's where the more quoted numbers come from
Couldn’t disagree with this statement more. There are many many studies looking at this and the HIGH number to optimize muscle gain is closer to 1 gram of protein PER POUND of LBM. The biggest issue though in these studies is the exercise routine. If there isn’t proper stimulus in the weight room, additional protein won’t do squat. If there is optimal stimulus, there probably will be greater benefit to more protein. Most resistance training studies are poor. Many use untrained college kids whose motivation and habits are very questionable. Also although beginners grow much more rapidly than seasoned lifters, they do not gain much actual muscle tissue the first month or so of training. Most initial gains are purely strength and neurological. And studies on experienced lifters are too random. If the study workout isn’t harder than what these people usually do, there won’t be any new growth. And then 250 grams of protein shouldn’t show any benefit over 100. Protein is the most important macronutrient. You can be completely healthy and optimized just eating protein and an adequate amount of fat for energy.
This also depends on your body composition as well. If you're 350 pounds and overweight by 150 pounds, you do not need 255g of protein.
The 95% CI for that 1.6g estimate is (1.03; 2.20) g protein/kg body weight. With available data points on the graph, we see that at 1.2g there's still an observed chance to have negative change. So I'd say if we need *a number*, then anything above 1.2g (up to 2.2g) works (with the current data).
I'm impressed with this whole thread. I expected everyone to say 300 g /day.
Minimum
it's also well known that eating internal organs of a living beast and drinking their blood is the number one way to hit maximal gains...
According to the Liver King, that and tons of Steroids will make you look like the Hulk
silly me, i forgot to mention the constant cycles of god knows what. i really don't know steroids. d-ball, gorilla cum, heh
Gorilla cum. Ok 50/50 partners. I swear if we got some yoked idiot to market it on YouTube we would be able to sell gorilla cum pills. We would create a whole slew of sub genres with people claiming it has to be pure and fresh. We’d have hopeful Bros jerking off gorillas in the rainforest
we could name it after Harambe. Harambe STRONG. or something. it's a working title, ffs
You should watch the YouTube channel bro science for a good laugh, especially the one where he talks about protein.
I’ve been telling lifters for a decade the research has never supported 1g/pound and that anyone getting more than 1g/kg of LEAN body weight is definitely going to have the materials to build muscle. Optimal intake past that point depends on your goals and individual physiology. The really tough ones to reach were the people wanting to lose weight but were convinced they needed to get 200g of protein and the kcal that came with that to do it.
Yes. When younger and dumber I tried to get 200 G protein on a 1200 calorie diet. Lmao. That only leaves 400 calories for fat and carbs. It was very effective but I doubt it was very healthy. Luckily I was 22 so I was fairly invincible
Definitely was healthy. That’s why it was effective.
1 g / kg of lean mass seems very low. Someone of 85 kg (187 lbs) with 15% fat has about 72kg lean mass.
I decided im gonna just stop overthinking this shit and work out listen to my body, every time i try to get this perfect its so many different opinions and it discourages me making me think im not doing things right, but fuck that, working out is better than not working out at all, i will figure out the rest as i go
This. Started working out 2 months ago, everyone was talking in my ear do this do that. Really confusing. I just eat what I wanted with the idea of having a mixed diet. Put on 10LB of muscle 2 months.
Are you on any steroids? 10lbs of muscle in 2 months is crazy. Are you sure it's muscle and not fat? Even gaining 10 lbs of fat in 2 months is crazy. Unless you're a young newbie lifter. Mind sharing your diet and workout plan? I need to gain 10 lbs of muscle
Very common with newbie lifters. It might take 1 year to get the next 10 pounds and 3 years to get 10 more than that.
Yeah it’s cool but depressing to look at graphs of average muscle gain after x years. At a certain point it’s like 0.5 lbs a year but anyone who’s at that point is absolutely shredded already
For sure. And at that point it’s probably not even worth it.
Not to say working out isnt Just the effort to get that last 1-2 lbs of muscle is probably not worth the additional effort unless you are a natural stage competitor
No steroids. I'm just a new lifter and quit nicotine at the same time. I was probably underweight to be honest. Definitely not fat gain, I've always been slim. 10% body fat 10st6lb. My diet is just good foods.
The best workout is the one that you will do.
>So more than 0.73g per pound is not necessarily more effective. Also I believe this is for **lean** body mass. If you are an overweight person, you would want to eat close to the amount needed at your ideal weight rather than your current weight. For those of us focusing on weight loss, that makes the protein target much more feasible within our caloric constraints.
It's for total body weight, for trained people. Not lean body weight. Not obese people. I use my goal weight.
Good point. I have also heard instead of .73g per pound you can use 1g per pound FFM. So a 300 pound man would need 180 if he was 40% BF. That is fairly inline with the other numbers. Maybe a little high
This seems to be from 2018 and there's a correction mention there. I say this because i think there was a recent study about this and it was proven the body was still processing the protein over time and that the excess of protein intake was not going all to waste as it was thought before. But im just saying this from the top of my head, im afraid i dont have any sources
A breakdown of the results of that review is here: https://youtu.be/P6GRoE7SYmI I aim for at least 1.3 g/kg goal body weight, based on that review and these reviews: * https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/79/1/66/5936522 * https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcsm.12922
Why do you aim for 1.3g/kg if you say the human body only needs 30 to 50g?
30-50g is about all someone would need if they were just living a normal life, not lifting, not really exercising past like a walk in the evenings. It’s the rough necessity level. Honestly, use 1.1g/kg, find out your lean weight, pick your ideal weight, then keep your daily intake in the range between those two. If you find you aren’t headed toward meeting the goals you wanted after 6 weeks or so adjust the 1.1 up or down by 0.1 at a time.
?? I didn't? But the RDA for protein is 0.8 g/kg. For most people who aren't working out, that's enough. 1.3 is because I'm working out and trying to build muscle.
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The RDA isn't a rock bottom minimum. It is from studies on sedentary people, but there's a generous buffer of 2 standard deviations added, so that it should meet or exceed the requirements of 97.5% of the general population. >Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDA), the daily dietary intake level of a nutrient considered sufficient by the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine to meet the requirements of 97.5% of healthy individuals in each life stage and sex group. The definition implies that the intake level would cause a harmful nutrient deficiency in just 2.5%. It is calculated based on the EAR and is usually approximately 20% higher than the EAR. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Reference_Intake >Estimated Average Requirements (EAR), are expected to satisfy the needs of 50% of the people in that age group based on a review of the scientific literature. The EAR for protein is 0.66 g/kg. Actual requirements for protein vary widely, and an individual's actual protein requirement is somewhere between 0.5 and 0.8 g/kg.
I love a good meta analysis. Hard to argue with them. But after reading through I still have one question you might know if you are more familiar with the meta data. Do any of the 49 studies include data on people who have already reached about 80% of their genetic potential? I am curious because with weight training for example, there is a certain very simple program and progression option that is great for almost everyone except those trying to get that last 20%. For these individuals they do wind up needing an ever higher volume to reach muscle synthesis. Wondering if the same is true for protein. I completely agree that the 1 gram per pound BW is complete bro science. I have heard some other formulas that are more based on FFM but they are still rather high. But specifically I am 200lbs and 12% BF. I believe there are about 10 more pounds of muscle available, but I only plan to shoot for about 5 more. The people that reach natural potential have to be full time bodybuilders… Anyway, I keep going back and forth on how much protein is really necessary. Currently getting about 170 grams per day. But I have to drink protein shakes to get there. I think my life would be easier if I only needed 120. Not to mention the extra 200 calories I could get from delicious carbs 😬
Actually it’s very easy to argue with a meta analysis. Bc the researchers usually cherry pick the studies they use. It looks good bc they’re combining 10, 20, maybe 50 studies but many times they have an agenda and are purposely including certain studies and excluding others. You should definitely have high skepticism on any meta analysis. Many meta analysis prove to be inaccurate over time.
Good to know. I guess I overly trust the meta analysis because of a fitness guy I follow. But he kind of does his own meta analysis of studies or a meta analysis of meta analysis. He DOES sell supplements but spends most of his time telling you that you don’t need them at all and that they are at most 4-5% of the equation. Things like “if you were going to lose 8 pounds this month the research shows this could get you to 9 lbs”. Or “if you eat 5-7 servings of fruits and veggies you don’t need a multivitamin, but if you don’t here is one without a bunch of junk and filler”. It might be that he’s honest or it might be the best marketing strategy ever… I guess it could be both.
Not sure when this journal was written but I read a recent study that there’s actually no cap to protein intake. As a matter of fact I believe 90-95% of the protein that would be considered excess is absorbed.
This! Also to OP, this is very doable on most diets. I’m vegan and as long as I’m eating Whole Foods and not processed stuff, I can hit this pretty easily without even supplementing. Should be even easier if someone is eating meat, just takes a basic level of planning! Would recommend using MyFitnessPal or Cronometer to track your food for a few weeks and see if you’re getting enough already
I work in a vegetarian restaurant, and I definitely eat *more* protein on work days. An order of seitan "chicken" tenders has like 120g of protein. Also, we blend beans into the seitan to hit all the amino acids. It's getting easier and easier to cut out meat
>An order of seitan "chicken" tenders has like 120g of protein. 120 g of protein is about 400 g of cooked chicken... Edit: I read something wrong in the OP originally, but glad for the replies - now I know seitan exists!
Yeah man, seitan can have hella protein
Seitan is higher protein than chicken by calorie. Higher than most any meat, iirc.
I googled and it seems it similar to chicken ham I buy. 20 g of protein / 100 kcal. Pretty nice.
What kind of beans do you blend in?
cannellini beans and tofu
I've also blended in black beans because it is what I had in the cupboard and it comes out great. You can always experiment.
You blend black beans into your seitan? Tell me more...
So this is kind of the recipe that I started with but I didn't have the chickpeas so I just subbed black beans. I also use sesame oil instead of liquid smoke. And it was honestly the best seitan I've made to date so that's how I do it now. If you are feeling lazy and just want to mush up your beans too that works fine you will just end up with the bits of the bean skins instead of a more uniform texture. [https://www.lowlyfood.com/recipe/the-ultimate-seitan-roast/](https://www.lowlyfood.com/recipe/the-ultimate-seitan-roast/)
I will try this thank you! And thanks for your tips on tweaking it!
That's good. remember you want to have an even higher protein intake if you're consuming all vegetarian sources, due to the amino acid profiles being different from animal sources
Seitan is the lowest on the list when rating by protein digestibility though… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Protein_digestibility_corrected_amino_acid_score&diffonly=true
That's why he specifically mentioned blending in beans... it balances out seitans amino acid profile
What do you put in it? That sounds crazy high
i just discovered seitan now im mind blown, sounds like the cheapest protein source I've been looking for.
Vegan here and I can definiteny hit that amount. Anyway the science is that people measured the point at which consuming more protein wouldn't increase muscle growth any more. That was estimated to be 1.6g protein per kg of bodyweight. Anyway here was my meal plan when I was on a cut. 70kg Oats with peanut butter powder. 30g 2 Vegemite sandwiches. 25g Protein shake with soy milk. 30g Curry. Rice, lentils, tofu, veggies. 25g 110g protein with 1700kcal.
How much Vegemite are you stacking in those sandwiches
25 grams roughly between two sandwiches. That's 50kcal and 6.8 grams of protein. Vegemite's over 50% protein.
So only like 1000% of your daily value of sodium?
I use the reduced salt for this reason, also it has b12. 4% daily intake per serve so it's 20% sodium all up.
25g in each sandwich? Giving you a total of 25g from Vegemite alone? Isn’t it very salty?
No, 25g total divided between two sandwiches. Still salty anyway and I kinda built up a tolerance of it. If I had that much the first time I would wince.
As per [this](https://www.fatsecret.com.au/calories-nutrition/vegemite/vegemite/1-tsp?frc=True) information 5g of Vegemite has 1.30gm of protein and 9kCal of energy. So 25gm will be 6.5g of protein. So from two vegemite sandwiches I don't think you can get 25g protein (100g bread has about 9gm protein - approx)
The bread I get has 187 kcal and 9g protein per sandwich, so it's almost 20% kcal from protein. I can get even more if I make my own bread. In 500g of flour, I replace 100g with vital wheat gluten, and for even more protein replace another 100g with pea and soy protein. My own Vegemite is the reduced salt version which I guess has a tiny bit more protein. Cronometer says this meal gives 24.8g protein.
It's majority, from the bread.
All of it
> Vegemite sandwiches Makes even more sense, when the guy "full of muscles" in Brussels also made them!
Where the sandwiches given to you by a man who was six-foot-four and full of muscle?
Please accept my upvote for your excellent musical taste.
I never heard of "peanut butter powder" but I just looked it up. Do you take it for the flavor and lower calories?
Both. Good flavour and good protein with few kcals.
PB2 is awesome!
If you like PB2, you should consider just buying some organic peanut flour. PB2 has added sugar and also salt, IIRC. Peanut flour is the same thing nutritionally - like proten-wise - but without added sugar/salt
It's also awesome on ice cream
Just to give a differing opinion, peanut butter powder is awful. It's taken me a year to get through my tub of pb2 cause I eat it begrudgingly. But the only peanut butter I like is jif(extra crunchy my fav), all the other brands and types are just chalky or flavorless/mediocre to me.
PB2 is junk. Just go with actual peanut flour. It's cheaper and easier to incorporate into recipes.
So you don't like peanut butter. You like hydrogenated vegetable oil + sugar.
Yes, the 2% of hydrogenated oils and 2 gram more of sugar makes jif peanut butter far better than the "organic/natural" types that have maybe 1% better nutritional profile but 0% enjoyment for tasting like ass chalk.
Peanut butter powder has decent peanut butter flavor when mixed into things like oats, smoothies, sauces, etc but I think its a pretty disappointing substitute for actual peanut butter as a spread on toast and stuff. The instructions say to mix it with a little water to make a spread but it's quite sad without all the fat.
How did you feel/what did you notice after going vegan?
Not OP, but I'm also vegan. I've been a pretty clean eating vegan for 2 years and was a pretty clean eating pescetarian for 2 years before that. I just got a blood test last week. My total cholesterol dropped by nearly half after becoming vegan and my LDL dropped to almost a 1/3 of its old level. My liver enzymes also came into the normal range for the first time in my life (my first measurement was when I was as a kid and I'm now in my 30s). I've found no difference at all in recovery after switching from whey to vegan protein powders and my weight hasn't changed at all (I wanted to maintain my weight). My testosterone is on the high end of the range for a man my age (it's 16.26 and the healthy range is 12.4-17.3). As an aside, I got way more nocturnal erections once I became vegan. That coupled with my insane cholesterol improvements make me think veganism has been very kind to my whole cardiovascular system.
The protein powder switch seems very likely to be unrelated though? I’ve never heard of any link between cholesterol and whey isolate.
I don't know what foods were guilty, but it was something (or multiple things) I dropped. People say fish omega 3s are great for cholesterol but my levels were too high despite eating a ton of sardines and mackerel. Every day I'd have a can. All I know is that my levels massively improved and at the very least vegan protein powder did not hurt my cholesterol.
Never heard of peanut butter powder
You don't want just lentils and beans. Soy products (tofu, tempeh) and seitan are the best when it comes to amount of protein per 100g from plant sources.
In general protein per kcal or percentage kcal derived from protein is a better measure but nevertheless those goods are good.
I am a 6'2, 225lb (athletic build, and I have a very broad skeleton so my muscles are large) vegan and I make a protein powder blend. It is equal parts soy protein isolate, pea protein, and brown rice protein. I buy them separately and mix them all together. Take it from me, you NEED protein powder unless you want to eat like 80g of fiber a day or ungodly amounts of tofu. I've found as a vegan that I have to moderate my fiber because I'd always eat too much. I think WFPB isn't conducive to building muscle because of all the fiber. I'd keep eating whole legumes because they're so nutritious, but maybe have two scoops of powder a day. I like mixing the powders because it adds some diversity. And mix them with a liquid that has vitamin C so you can absorb iron from the powders. My iron levels are really good because I do that and I never supplement with iron. By the way, I eat 120g protein to maintain, so 160 would be plenty for building at my size.
How much is too much fiber and why is it bad?
Hard to put a hard number since we're all different, but I found I can handle around 40-50g a day. Ironically, too much fiber makes you constipated because it sucks up so much water. I also live in the tropics so losing water through sweat and to fiber made it very hard to properly hydrate. Also, too much fiber (particularly whole wheat pasta and bread) made me very low energy because the energy release was so slow throughout the day. Finally, too much fiber is very satiating, so it's hard to eat enough calories which further affects energy levels. I now save my fiber for veggies and legumes and then stuff like pasta and bread I never eat as whole grains.
If you goal is health, I don't think there is too much fiber. Just drink more water.
It depends. Research has shown that novices need more protein than advanced lifters, for example. It also depends on if one is doing consistent, high intensity training or if they're sedentary or somewhere in between. Some recent research found that most strength athletes can optimize gains with about 1.6g per Kg. This is about .72g per lb. It's also a good idea to factor in body composition. If somebody is overweight, they'll be fine calculating their protein needs based on goal bodyweight because it's their lean body mass they're trying to support, not their fat mass.
I'm vegan, one of my protein shakes if made with soy milk is 36g protein. Two a day is 72g. My granola in the morning is 30g Lunch is leftover dinner from the night before, and is typically anything amounting to 30-50g protein (just add more seitan - one homemade steak = 42g, use components that are protein friendly etc) Total without snacks = 160 - 200g based on these numbers. And my go to snack is pitta and hummus which are another 10-15g or so. I'm 75kg, consume around 2300cals It's really not difficult to consume protein on a plant based diet
How is your granola 30g of protein? What kind of granola is this?
Just a protein granola from aldi that I have a big old bowl of Per 100g: Energy 1851kJ, 441kcal Fat 16g of which saturates 2.7g Carbohydrate 44g of which sugars 18g Fibre 6.0g Protein 27g Salt 0.91g Bag is 400g total and I go through 2 a week
Mind showing me a link to this bag? Where do you buy it from?
> protein granola from aldi
Good info
basic [harvest crunch granola](https://images.app.goo.gl/qtv1bqQHVbjWN1E4A) is 10g of protein per 100g.. which is pretty easy to eat. add 300g of soy milk, some nuts, some chia seeds, and you're pretty close to 30g protein. i also add some berries or other fruit to it. i eat that for work, make it the night before and let it sit in fridge overnight. tastes great.
This is what people don't understand, they're like "How do you get protein". It's like, dude, proteins is the least of my worries compared to iron, B12, Omega-3 and what have you. Also how do YOU not eat too much saturated fat and carcinogenic red meat? It really isn't the vegans health you should be worried about
Do you make your own seitan? If not, where do you get it? Thanks for the tip about the protein granola from Aldi. I shop there every week and haven’t seen that one yet.
[Seitan Steak](https://itdoesnttastelikechicken.com/wprm_print/vegan-seitan-steak) here [Plain bulk seitan](https://www.kathysvegankitchen.com/seitan-protein/) here, I make a lot of this at once and marinate it for the week ahead. I'll make one or the other each week for the family, even the meat eaters enjoy it. Large(ish) up front cost, bur cheap per portion and super healthy/tasty when you've got the knack On the aldi granola, just been and they seem to have swapped it out annoyingly. Might still have stock near you though, just keep an eye out because it's protein content is nuts
Great, thanks for the links! I’ve been pushing a reductatarian approach to eating meat in our home. Have two grade school kids who love my lentil stew and chickpea minestrone, but they won’t touch tofu and I’m hard up for finding some new ways to provide yummy meat free dinners. I’ll give this a try!
I reckon the steaks are your better bet, just because they're easier to make tender and juicy, the bulk seitan I find tends to be a little tougher and more spongey, but there's lots of variables to tweak in the recipe. Basically less kneading = much much softer texture, and the steak recipe requires less kneading. But they absorb flavour super well so you can make them taste however your kids like
Awesome, thanks for the resource
Look up Humapro. It’s a vegan protein source I replaced all my whey with it for last 3 years It’s maybe 80% of my protein intake daily. I’m around 6’3 / 250 pounds and one of the stronger guys you’d meet It works
Why did you move away from whey?
It’s far “heavier” and higher in calories.
I’m looking at it now. There’s a Father’s Day sale that has me ready to pull the trigger. I’ve used different EAAs and BCAAs before. Is this kind of the same thing or a different animal? I workout in the morning (hard spin class twice a week, lifting 5 days), and I do so on an empty stomach. This is something I’d take before my workout, after, or both? I’m 5’10” and around 175. Would like to cut up just a bit more, maybe get into the mid 160s. So I’m generally in a caloric deficit, and like the idea of boosting nutrition/protein while getting rid of a few more calories. Thanks ✌️
Just think if it as muscle food. That’s all protein is. So you want to constantly feed it into your body every day working out or not. I put 3 scoops (3x25g) in 2 litres of water 3 x a day. Drink it slowly all day. That’s around200 grams of protein But it’s almost zero cals so it’s completely fine if my body doesn’t process all of that Basically there’s zero chance you don’t get enough protein to support your muscle gains if it do what I do - or say 2 scoops 3 times a day I recommend orange or pineapple flavour Bitter apple one sucks
Nice, thanks. I’m not a pineapple fan so maybe I’ll try the orange. How’s blue raspberry?
Not tried but I’d guess good Btw I get the powder not the tabs Just mix it with water Some ice makes it even nicer Enjoy mate
>But it’s almost zero cals so it’s completely fine if my body doesn’t process all of that What?? This is nonsense. Protein has calories. There's no such thing as zero-calorie protein. Your body can break down protein and use it for energy. Therefore it has calories. A gram of protein is about 4 calories, so 200 grams of protein are 800 grams of calories. Your body uses a small percentage of that to actually digest the protein, so it may be more like 600 calories, but it's still very much non-negligible. I don't know how they're allowed to say such BS on their label. [This thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/8278e7/is_this_snake_oil_seems_too_good_to_be_true_25g/) on Reddit has some ideas. Edit: Bwa ha ha, worked it out (partly from [this post](https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/humapro-again.230289/#post-4007513)). It claims 1 scoop, which is 7.5g, has the "equivalent" of 25 g of protein. If you believe 7.5 grams of powder can have as much protein as 25 grams of protein, I have a bridge to sell you. Instead they're pulling a fast one and saying it's the same amount of BCAA+EAAs you'd have in 25 grams of protein. But there's a heck of a lot more in protein than just BCAA+EAAs. If you really want tons of BCAAs, this is a fine powder, but you're in no way eating 200 grams of protein by eating 9 scoops of this stuff.
Isn't 1g per pound like what bodybuilders take when they have excessively low body fat and are trying to lose weight for competitions? I think they eat excessive amounts of protein to prevent as much muscle loss as the body cannibalizes itself For gaining weight and building muscle it makes sense it'd be lower. I always thought it should be based on lean body mass (subtracting body fat percent)
Pretty sure it’s per kilogram and you’re just running into Americans that don’t know how to handle unit translation. The 1g figure can vary though, based on your activity level and personal health. See a dietician and doc if your uric acid levels are up — you do NOT want to get gout.
People have consume less than the one gram per pound of body weight and still build muscle.
I do. 🤘
All of the x g per kg of body weight leave out an important part, it’s LEAN body weight.
This is new to me. Any research source? Estimating body fat is difficult, so if the current advice applies total body weight, it should be the more practical advice.
This is not how the data was gathered go look at the studies.
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As another comment pointed out the science says there's no benefit to more than 1.6g/kg. For me that works out to 130g of protein. I'm vegan and I can meet that pretty easily without using protein powders.
1g/kg is the minimum. 0.8g/lb will reach max benefits for pretty much everyone unless you are on gear or something. 1g/lb for people on gear, or if you just keed an easy reference point to remember. The benefit isnt necessarily linear. The benefits get propertionally lower the higher you go.
I just eat a pound of meat a day and my muscles been growing better than ever, but im not trying to be big. I just been working out alot and i see some nice development even on a 1 pound of meat. Its usually ground beef 70/30 lean/fat and thats like 65g of protein and i weigh 140
Renaissance Periodization has a free YouTube mini series about the science of fat loss (you can use it for muscle building as well). Mike Israetel is a professor of exercise science and breaks down some of this information. I think it’s good stuff https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyqKj7LwU2RulAjHczohbx5OyJQ8TaFM0&si=81JD8az6XzUMUJes
Jeff Nippard did a very interesting YT video on this very subject. https://youtu.be/Pok0Jg2JAkE?si=S_u-6lL5UgRo8hvI
I just eat more full if I want to bulk and less if I want to slim. I don't care about carbos/fat/proteins I just eat healthy stuff with micronutrients and things that I like. Not optimal but I think so many people worry about protein too much. They act like they think they can't get fat from protein. In the end it's calories + the work you did
I still can make gains with 90-100g protein per day. They told you to eat 2g/lb protein per day is total BS. Too much protein is overrated. We are being lied on many things.
Vegan here, as long as I’m conscious of what I’m eating, I can easily hit 180g of protein a day. Generally my target is a minimum of 170g (32m, 6’ 2”, 94kg) and I have been seeing much quicker recovery and progress than when I aimed for 130g of protein a day!
How are you hitting 170g of protein a day on a vegan diet?
I’d say pretty easily with a balanced diet. You have to be intentional though. I’m a big consumer of soy products and high protein soy products are very good sources for vegans. 200g of tempeh has 40-45g of protein. 100ml of Alpro Soya milk is 5g of protein which makes milky teas and coffees a good ‘top up’. I also like Quorn which is all very good sources of protein. When I’m short of protein intake, I generally have a plant based protein shake which is 40g of protein for 200ish calories. Soya protein yoghurt is 200g with 15g of protein. I do have pulses, lentils, beans, etc. But generally they don’t have as high protein per gram which means you have to consume a lot of volume to get the same protein intake. Definitely not saying that it’s easier as a vegan than it is eating meat, dairy etc. I think you have to make more conscious decisions as a vegan to hit higher protein intakes. I aim for around 2100 calories a day and manage 170-180g protein with relative ease.
The value I heard was .8g protein/kg bodyweight at least per day, whether you’re building muscle or not. If you’re building muscle I’ve heard 1.2g-2.2g per kg bodyweight is what you go for. In clearer terms you’re 83.91kg so you need about 69 g protein for normal daily function and about 101g-184g for muscle building. You could probably aim for the lower end of that one and be good to go. But yeah, if you eat more, different macro nutrients do different things. Carbohydrates give you the energy you need to go through your day-to-day activities and pretty much to move and function. Fats give you necessary fatty acids for brain function and nutrient absorption at least, and a couple of fatty acids we can’t make on our own so that’s why we need some fat daily. Protein is necessary for muscle growth and repair at least. Every time you work out your muscles it’s creating tiny tears that need to be repaired in order for your muscle to grow stronger. When they talk about bulking, I assume that it’s just streamlining the process of muscle growth and focusing on growing your muscles instead of losing weight. Because when you lose weight, you lose fat, muscle, and you may use more sugar (carbohydrates) in your blood as well. It’s usually a longer process if you try to lose weight and build muscle at the same time, but it can be done. That’s what I do because I’m short and I shrink away at the idea of bulking at all. It’s too noticeable on my smaller frame. But it’s not necessary to do it that way. The point is you do need specifically protein for your muscles. But the amount they mentioned is miscalculated I think. I’ve heard we can only absorb 40 g of protein at a time per meal just so you’re aware. There are a lot of veggie sources of protein. Getting some veggies in your diet would help you keep up your sugar in your blood level for daily activities. The complex carbs allow you to eat less often and keep up blood sugar so that it’s not going too high or too low.
Rule of thumb is to aim for the lbs you want to be. At least, that worked for me. Ignore avoiding carbs, carbs aren't the devil and are actually good for you if you workout.
Practically 1g/kg protein is needed for lean muscle requirement. Don’t think much and follow this if you want a lean muscle mass. If bulk go for higher side of protein. Consume whey protein if you are concerned about cholesterol and meat releases diet.
i find that i can feel limp and when i up protein it dissipates. so when i feel a whole-body limpness/ lack of oomph a lot, i try that first, now.
A person at my gym said about eighty Grams of protein a day. The Internet told me something different. Me get as much as I can but I find it hard at times. So to sum it up idk.
Getting 185g of protein as a vegan is pretty easy if you have a protein shake in the morning and include foods like tofu or TVP as well as lentils and beans to get 50-60g protein per meal. I've been getting 160-200+ grams per day as a vegan for like 2 years now
Personally id reccomend atleast 1g per lb of bodyweight. Ive built more muscle that way and faster than with less. You have to try REALLY hard to have too much protein. I still have to try to get 1g per lb of bodyweight in my calorie defecit. In my bulk I wouldnt even be able to get over 1.3g per lb. Even up to 1.5g per lb of bodyweight, youre fine, and you may even see better results from 1.3-1.5g/lb. do not be concerned about your cholesterol. If you are eating healthy, whole foods, INCLUDING eggs (which people say not to have a lot of because of cholesterol) you do not have to worry about high blood cholesterol. Theres a difference between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol. Dietary cholesterol affects your blood cholesterol by about 20-30%. The rest is made by your body. The reason why people get high blood cholesterol is because they are having unhealthy foods, like fast food, processed foods, junk foods etc. If you end up getting high blood cholesterol, it is NOT because you are eating red meats or eggs. Its because you are having mcdonalds, burger king, and other unhealthy foods. Its not a lot of meat to get 185g of protein. As someone who is 160lbs, here is how I get 160-190g of protein: 6eggs (usually half whole eggs half egg whites), 300g greek yogurt, 200ish grams of lean meat (chicken or salmon), protein shake (milk, protein powder). Thats about it. I get a few more grams of protein from other random foods too. And by the way, I dont have these foods alone. I include lots of fruits, vegetables, seasoning etc to make the meals taste delicious and to get all my RDIs for vitamins and minerals.
As the top comment said, you need a lot less than what most people blindly repeat. I would also add that the number often cited is just the maximum that leads to more muscle growth. You can get away with significantly less protein as long as you are above the RDA (0.8g/kg), since as you increase the protein intake there are quickly diminishing returns to muscle gain. How you apply this depends on your situation. For me since I want to gain muscle and gain weight, I focus mainly on just eating a slight calorie surplus, and not eating crap. I'm almost always well above the RDA (usually around 1.5g/kg) without even thinking about protein and I'm vegan. I think in my situation what matters way more is eating enough calories since its a lot harder to build muscle without a caloric surplus, and its really difficult to not get enough protein on a caloric surplus unless you are literally just eating candy or something.
You don’t need 185 grams. You also might not need to be at a caloric surplus depending on your current body composition. If you are 15% bf I would guess you already have a bit of muscle and you might need a moderate surplus of 300 calories per day and about 120 grams of protein. But if you are 20% bf or more, that would indicate you do not have a lot of muscle mass. That is OK. At that level you could actually eat a defecit and still gain muscle. And probably 100 grams of protein would be fine.
I have no science to back this up but mainly experience in bulking when you bulk ovbi you gotta be in a calorie surplus what I've done is I have my goal weight let's say 200lbs and I weigh 180 my protein intake would be 200gs and around 300 to 400gs of carbs and your fats depend on how lean you wanna bulk up I think a 1 pound = to 1g of protein is very beneficial I used to weigh 108 and I'm at 185lb rn after about a year and a half of bulking I'm aiming to hit 200 in a few months and this is how I'm doing it's also I've never really seen a vegan with muscles but I do know there's plant based protein supplements made from beans and that
1.6g per per 1 kg of bw seems to be the goal from what I've seen in the natural fitness community, anything beyond that seems to go right to the sewage... if you are roided up tho, then it's a different story don't overthink it, have some kind of a protein every meal and you're golden
Here's my understanding... correct me if I'm wrong. Protein 1g/lb even though you only need .73g/lb. You need complete proteins with all 9 essential amino acids like you get from animal sources, meat, dairy, eggs, etc. A lot of plant proteins are incomplete proteins. When you track your macros, you don't have to be as critical about your protein source. Vegans more than likely supplement. Protein/calories. You can't build something from nothing. That's why you go to calorie surplus. To build larger muscles, you need to gain weight, not a lot but some. As I understand it, calories are the fuel and protein is the building material. Think of it this way you need labor and materials to build a house. Labor = calories / material = protein.
Train to strengthen your character first
185 x 4 = 740 calories of protein. In a 2k diet thats 37% ifnyour calories. Its not excessive and leaves plenty of room for veggies, carbs, and healthy fats. There are plenty of non meat proteins available. Many greek yogurts are 20g per serving, cottage cheese, eggs, tofu, etc. I try to limit myself to 1 serving of meat per day, and eat high protein non meat foods and supplement with a vegan protein powder if i have to.
Honestly why do people talk about it so much? Eat what you want, do you get bigger? No? More food.... It's no science... And if you want to be 100% certain aim for 1 g per pound / 2g per kg that's what I was told and it worked. It's not so hard to hit this caps. I love mozzarella and one 250g mozzarella already has has around 44g protein sometimes I eat 2 a day. 88g protein which is already half my need if I go for the 2 g per kg rule. Then I eat 5 eggs a day as snacks, 1 egg = 100 g = 13g protein (says Google) 5 X 13 =65 g. Without eating 1 real meal I'm almost at the goal, obviously you don't need 5 eggs or 2 mozzarella but just to show you how easy it can be...
How do you eat 500g mozzarella every day?? That's 1510 calories, 100g fat and 270mg cholesterol
I said 1 sometimes 1, I eat one big one on the morning 250 g with some salt and pepper, like I said, I like mozzarella
Cholesterol does not cause heart disease. Meat is not bad for you. In fact, meat is great for you as you age. It contains the 4 C’s (in high dosages) that are essential for optimal functioning as we age. Creatine CoQ10 CLA Carnosine So tired of seeing people thinking otherwise. The cholesterol theory of heart disease is the biggest scam of modern times and probably of all time since many millions of people have died following erroneous advice.
So what causes heart disease? And why do people that eat lots of meat get heart disease? If a person has cholesterol, then he should just ignore it and not work on lowering it?
Sugar, excessive carb intake, Inflammation and blood clots. Full body inflammation and increased clotting factors are the major causes but believe it or not, we have much to learn still about heart disease. As for meat - we’ve been told for 60 years now to avoid red meat. So epidemiology studies (99% of nutrition studies) are now heavily biased. People who eat the most red meat don’t listen to health advice and doctors. So they also smoke more, don’t go to the doctor, don’t eat a lot of healthy unprocessed foods and even have a much higher percentage of “accidental deaths”. Also most high meat eaters aren’t eating prime steaks. Many eat fast food and an absolute glutton of starches and other unhealthy carbs. And yet even with all of that the average increase in mortality in high meat eaters is 16-17%. In an epidemiology study, this isn’t even a high enough percentage to do further research. For example, cigarette smoking and cancer has a correlation of 300-500% increase in cancers. THAT was the gold standard for epidemiology - a multiple 100%+ correlation.
You really don’t need that much protein. I’m 5’9 and went from 150 to 180lbs (over 2-3 years or so) at about 100g protein a day as a vegetarian. Some days less protein, some days more.
I’m not a vegetarian, but I’ve had the same experience. Some days I wonder if I even reach 100g of protein, yet I’ve build a considerable amount of lean muscle over the years. I push myself and the gym, and I’ve gotten stronger and bigger, yet I never followed the prescribed “protein plan”.
Yeah, I think there is way too much focus on the “optimal” amount of protein where the marginal gains are super small per additional gram of protein. You really just need to be consistent with your workouts and have decent diet that has decent protein. The consistency is like 75% of it.
Vegans build muscle like anyone else and, while nobody likes to read/hear it, if you eat enough calories from a varied diet, you will get enough protein. Overall calories are important here; a small increase will see you increase muscle mass with consistency and hard work. One ‘hack’ I use when I need extra calories is to blend up a can of white beans into a smoothie; tonnes of nutrients, high protein.
I have a bunch of white beans dried that I need to use and have considered this. I currently use silken tofu along with pea protein but would like add variety to the protein source. This is a good idea.
I was vegan for over 15 years and still eat a mostly plant based diet. Protein is very easy to come by. For me, the biggest thing is eating a surplus. I would have to intentionally not eat enough protein to not get enough protein. It's harder for me to "overeat" which I need to do in order to bulk. If you are eating enough food and have a varied diet, you're probably fine. I started drinking protein shakes just to throw in some extra after work outs but I'm not sure if it's even necessary.
Can you elaborate on how you did this? I tried to plan a vegetarian meal that hits 50g @ 700 kcal and the only way I could find was to combine a lot of tofu with lentils. It seems like you would have to eat large quantities of tofu and legumes every day to hit macros.
In addition to the smoothie, I eat a lot of meals with varying combinations of beans/legumes/tofu and rice/quinoa. I eat much more than a serving size would suggest for most things. My snacks between meals consist of energy bars, trail mix, and fruit.
> I would have to intentionally not eat enough protein to not get enough protein. >I started drinking protein shakes just to throw in some extra after work outs but I'm not sure if it's even necessary. Im calling complete bullshit on this lol. Shakes not even necessary and you just magically get enough protein with zero trying on a vegan diet AND its hard for you to overeat, so youre not even eating large quantities of these vegan foods??? Only way this makes sense to me is youre one of those vegans who thinks 40g of protein a day is enough for a male athlete or something. Which I have seen.
It sounds like you need to be getting more lean protein from fish in chicken. The 1 G per 1 lb of healthy body weight is accurate. There are plenty of doctors in the fitness space that recommend that. Dr. Gabriel Lyon comes to mind. It is a lot of food and you are a very big person, so you're going to need to eat a lot of food. Like you're already doing stick to whole foods. Practice protein cycling where you're eating the same amount of protein each meal. And be sure to be doing your strength training. You've got this.
>The 1 G per 1 lb of healthy body weight is accurate. Pretty tough to do if you weigh over 200lbs. Especially on a cut.
No one really eats red meat for bulking. You need chicken (breast), tuna, eggs and dairy. Low cholesterol and not as bad for gout (check w/doctor for sure though) and you can hit 1.2-1.6g per kg pretty easy on most days.
Every other search I do into whether milk consumption is an ok thing, specifically for hormones, results in alternating responses.
Don't drink milk. There's too much sugar. Most people are eating yogurt. Greek strained contains probiotics and more protein than you need usually.
And yet, the next person or internet search would strongly recommend it.
Ok, then drink milk. Sometimes you're gonna have to weigh evidence for and against a choice, and make a decision for yourself. Personally, i think the benefits are minimal, overall there's better protein sources, but if you need it for some reason, then it's not the worst thing to put in your body. Overall we're all just strangers trying to do our best, so i can't actually tell you what's optimal for your own body. Either take the advice as written, or talk to a professional, since all your research is contradictory.
There is nothing wrong with milk but we are all different... I can lay in cholesterol ans it doesn't go up... almost 50 and its in the sweet spot just the way I was born...
Milk is fine but is higher in calories than other protein sources. If it fits your protein needs and calorie intake, go for it.
From exrx: > It has been found that 2.0 to 2.2 g/kg/day of protein was barely sufficient to maintain nitrogen balance during moderate intensity weight training. In practice I take 2/3 of the 2g as whey and wing the rest.
It's worth noting that if you are in any kind of bulking scenario, your protein needs are not as high as being in a cutting scenario. While cutting you probably want your protein to be pretty high to reduce the amount of muscle weight lost and to skew the % lost towards fat mass. When bulking, your proteins will be much more able to be available for use in muscle building so you don't need to have as much. The actual answer, it depends on what you want to do. This is an interesting relevant study from recent years: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38118410/#:\~:text=Using%20a%20comprehensive%20quadruple%20isotope,ingestion%20of%2025%20g%20protein](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38118410/#:~:text=Using%20a%20comprehensive%20quadruple%20isotope,ingestion%20of%2025%20g%20protein)
I just found out the answer to this the other day, check out this podcast episode: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/j4hln2vl/protein-are-you-getting-enough The short answer is: between 0.8 - 1.6 g of protein for every kg of body weight
I don't know real numbers bzt do aim for 1,5g/kg. You dont have to eat meat for it. There is much protein in dairy products and nuts. Hitting auch a protein goal with a normal daily life and obligations is rather tricky without shakes for me though. And for the calories part: your body needa to be in a metabolic state where it is able to build new instead of consume existing tissue. Thats anabolic vs catabolic. When your body is lacking energy it switches to survival mode and doesnt "waste" resources into building huge muscle mass. So calories dont build muscle, but they enable your body to do so as long as there is enough protein, training stimulus and time for recovery.
Too much protein is just hard on your kidneys. Even the upper limits of the recommended range will be way more than 99% of people need. Unless you are hardcore training 6 or 7 days a week your requirements will be much less
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. Too much protein can be hard on your body.
Reddit be petty
.6g/kg bw is minimum for repair and maintenance. 1.2 g/kg bw maximum strength trainer needs to work. 1.6 g/kg bw for 90mi+/week runners. Everything above that is renal failure. And you can use lean body mass for calculation technically
> everything above that is renal failure Absolute fearmongering lol
Ok don’t google “what happens if you eat too much protein?” Better yet just talk to the 19 year old at the gym using Tren and eating two lbs of red meat a day. He’s obviously smart about fitness with the body he has…not the dude with a degree in kinesiology with emphasis in human physiology who has been working out since he was 12 and an ex collegiate champion.
You need a lot