We get a first-hand experience of a person being undocumented and deported in this section. Have you read other texts about people who are undocumented immigrants in a country? Or even people that are stateless?
Maybe years ago, but this is the first undocumented immigration/deportation account I've read in awhile. I was surprised to learn about the holding facility at the airport and it was moving to imagine how powerless Obinze must have felt walking through the airport in handcuffs in front of all those regular travelers.
I was also struck by the other detainees who planned to try again with different papers; it doesn't seem like Obinze will go that route. His dream of immigration appears to be completely shattered. I think this will be a big difference between him and Ifemelu if/when they meet up again: she is returning to Nigeria voluntarily, while Obinze was forced to return.
Yes I read [Solito by Javier Zamora](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59900688-solito?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_6) which narrates a nine year old coming into the USA undocumented. >!He was deported too in the story and had to sneak back in. It sounds terrible. !<
I've had this on my TBR list for so long. I really need to move it up. This book gets checked out of my library all the time, especially the Spanish version. I think it resonates with a lot of people.
I mentioned this in a previous discussion, but [Asylum: A Memoir & Manifesto by Edafe Okporo](https://app.thestorygraph.com/books/33581f7e-23b5-49c8-96e4-6ec6fa1cf28f). I really can't recommend it enough. The difficulties Obinze faced reminded me a lot of what Edafe went through. I sort of forgot that Edafe was Nigerian too, which worked really well with Americanah.
Not in book form, but I sadly know many people who went or are still going through it. I find the diversity of behaviors described very realistic. From proud Obinze to blithe Iloba, and overcompensating Emenike.
Obinze is touched by Iloba offering his chin-chin, a ritual of hospitality that he remembered from visiting his mother's hometown as a child. Is there a ritual of hospitality or a ritual unique to your hometown that you're fond of?
A drink is always offered. Also bringing some food or drink to contribute when you visit the house of friends or family. But I'm not fond of this actually. When I was younger, we just went over to a friends house, but now as an adult, it's "appropriate" and "well-mannered" to bring something over. I miss the days when visiting friends wasn't such an "occasion."
I get that. Especially in the US, where it’s generally expected that you plan get togethers ahead of time as adults - there’s increasingly no space for just spur of the moment hangouts or spending time together.
In some ways, it was a slippery slope to cave to Vincent's demands and I can see why Obinze didn't think he'd actually report him. I'm quite surprised that he did, because he completely cut off any money from Obinze. Maybe Vincent thought he could get a better deal from someone else?
I believe Obinze was fairly close to marrying Cleotilde at that point (although I sometimes struggle with the relative timing of events in this book, so I could be wrong). If I'm right, then I would have given Vincent more money in the hopes of tiding him over; after the wedding, Obinze would have had more security and wouldn't need to rely on Vincent much longer.
Obinze definitely thought he was bluffing. It’s unfortunate that Vincent was incredibly serious. Still, if he had held out longer, Vincent could have continued to extort money from Obinze indefinitely.
I think his spite and rancour were more pressing than his finances. Seemed like an entirely repellant guy. Imagine turning in a fellow working-class African like yourself. Absolutely zero social solidarity. Asshole.
Vincent is extorting him and I would also be tempted to not give him more money. I might appease him at first, but it's a tough situation. I like u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 suggestion to give him money until he got married.
This is such a hard one because I don't think there's an easy answer. If I was Obinze, I probably would have paid Vincent the extra money out of caution and fear of losing the ID. I can understand why Obinze refused to do it. Vincent, however . . . that really seemed like a stupid move to report Obinze. That was his extra income! But I'm assuming that Vincent could easily find someone else in Obinze's situation that would be willing to pay even more.
Do you think Ginika is right about Ifemelu self-sabotaging her romantic relationships? What about Ifemelu's dissatisfaction with Curt, in that she felt like there was something missing in what she should be feeling? We already know that Ifemelu breaks up with Blaine later on - do you think that will be a case of self-sabotage too?
This is a great question. I don't see it as self-sabotage. Yes, Ifemelu gave up what seemed to be a stable and loving relationship, but if it didn't meet her needs, then it isn't self-sabotage. Ifemelu has been struggling against the idea of assimilation while still seeking ways to belong in the U.S. ever since she arrived. But she isn't willing to overhaul her personality, appearance, accent, etc. in order to find that belonging. In this way, she is different from Ginika. We know that Ifemelu's quest is leading her back to Nigeria, which is a pretty drastic move. To me, that says her relationship with Curt would never work because she is seeking a belonging and authenticity to her Nigerian roots that she wouldn't be able to fully express with him, no matter how loving he is.
Right, if anything, she could be self-sabotaging by remaining static. Curt and Blaine are polar opposites though both are supportive of Ifemelu on the surface. Outside perspectives tend to blame partners who are dissatisfied and act on it because they can’t understand where the disconnect is. Ginika’s comment is coming from a supportive place, but she’s also not in it to know why Ifemelu is pulling away.
Exactly. Just because someone is 'comfortable' does not mean they're happy. Few people would have the same reaction if their friend quit a cushy job that didn't excite them.
I really like the way the author writes Ifemelu. We can see how Ifemelu stays connected to her Nigerian roots, but also how she adapts and sometimes subsumes herself with the people in her life, especially romantic partners. I find it realistic to life.
"For weeks, Ifemelu stumbled around, trying to remember the person she was before Curt." Ifemelu was swept away by the romance with Curt and was enjoying him so much that she forgot herself briefly. I would call it self-sabotage when she sleeps with her neighbor. Her not being connected to herself caused her to do something that would cause a break up or force some independence.
I like this interpretation. By sleeping with the neighbor, Ifemelu manufactured a reason to end things with Curt, even though she didn't necessarily realize why they needed to end. As you said, she had lost herself and sabotaged her otherwise-stable relationship in the (possibly subconscious) hopes of finding herself again.
So much self-sabotage. I was glad someone called her out on it.
Ifemelu always feels like she's in these relationships because it's what is expected of her. There's always this distance she has when talking about her partners. It's like Ifemelu just goes through life unconnected, without deep relationships, so she just goes along with it when it comes to people liking her. I wonder if this self-sabotage stuff stems from her mom and all that religious stuff Ifemelu watched her go through.
>There's always this distance she has when talking about her partners. It's like Ifemelu just goes through life unconnected, without deep relationships, so she just goes along with it when it comes to people liking her.
I totally agree with this analysis and I find it the most salient point about her. I think the challenges in her relationships (distance with Obinze, cultural differences with Kurt, I'm not sure what with Blaine) become excuses to never open herself. Even in friendships with people in the same situation as her, she remains guarded. It makes me sad.
We see Obinze contemplate that his initial efforts to meet with Emenike was another iteration of loved ones that become harsh and jaded after they move above, and his astonishment at Nicholas's demeanor. We also see Obinze surprised at Ojiugo's contentment with raising her children and Iloba's sincere eagerness to help him find work. Have you ever been surprised by how a loved one changed after a major life event that affected you both?
I can't think of a direct experience off the top of my head, but I wanted to say I was disappointed in Emenike, though maybe not surprised. His suggestion that Obinze see a play on the West End struck me as incredibly tone deaf, like he has no memory of the struggles he probably also faced when he first arrived in the UK. Emenike has completely embraced his British persona and doesn't seem to have much empathy, respect, or even understanding of Obinze's situation. I would much rather have Ginika as a friend; even though she has assimilated pretty well into US society, she is still understanding of Ifemelu's struggles and does her best to help.
It's amazing how Obinze and Ifemelu still have beliefs and attitudes connected to Nigeria, but their friends seem to have just left it behind. Emenike seemed so "western" in his attitudes and speech to me, blending in with his friends.
And to answer your question, no, I have not had that experience.
This was a really insightful scene. People from minorities, especially black men, are not supposed to be angry about racism because others view that anger as a threat. There's also the "look how far we've come" mentality which Ifemelu challenges, which makes white people dismiss racist interactions as "not that bad, it used to be so much worse". So Emenike edited the anger out of his story when telling the party guests, whereas he could be more genuine with Obinze.
Yeah, it was a great parallel when Ifemelu dispels the notion in the next chapter. I didn't notice that when I was reading, good catch. I think the most prominent example of this in recent memory is when Will Smith slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars, and when people asked Chris why he didn't do anything about it, he replied something like, "My parents taught me not to fight in front of white people." I imagine the hyper-vigilance that young black men especially have to perform in certain social situations (especially around police) is so ingrained it almost becomes unconscious.
Again, I'm going to agree with u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 and u/BrayGC. An alternative explanation is that now that he has gotten some distance from the experience as well as feeling more stable and situated in England, he can talk about it without being angry. Similarly, he told Obinze the story sooner after it happened and Obinze is also a better audience to hear it.
I agree with the race aspect. I'll add a class element. Every guest is upper class, and in polite society, it's frowned upon to bring heavy personal subjects. A funny anecdote will fit the mood, trauma will not.
I liked the contrast between Iloba's visit and Nicholas's. While Iloba's crying made Obinze uncomfortable, it also gave him the chance to be strong and put on a brave face. It also showed how much Iloba cared about him. In contrast, Nicholas and Ojiugo were probably trying to make Obinze feel better by acting like everything was normal, but the truth is, the situation wasn't normal. Iloba's response felt more genuine and it created a connection with Obinze; Nicholas and Ojiugo came across as distant and indifferent to what Obinze was actually experiencing.
Nicholas and Ojiugo sounded almost embarrassed to see Obinze in jail and didn't know how to express themselves appropriately. They were very tone deaf to the situation.
Do you agree with Ifemelu's premise that only real deep romantic love between American Blacks and American Whites can end the problem of race? What about her premise that American society is set up to make such a thing rare between American Blacks and American Whites? Or her premise that friendship is not sufficient enough to end the problem of race (Given the plot, we're talking about race in American society, but feel free to expand this to other contexts, such as the discussion around class in the UK at the dinner party.)
I hope not! Cause that will take a long long time to heal. I think we are doing better with implicit bias trainings, and making governmental and private organizations require their employees to understand cultural differences and experiences. All of that helps. Ifemelu might be relating her terrible experience speaking with that group in Ohio, and how that just seemed to fall flat. She did a good service speaking to them, but they will need to hear it over and over and over before they will even want to understand it. Midwest whites, generally, will be the last to appreciate cultural differences. Prove me wrong please!
I don't think that deep romantic love will end the problem of race in America only because it will be impacting fewer people. For those involved in the relationship and the people in their circle, I could see that love making an impact. But that's so few people (it goes back to her statement about American society making that love rare between Blacks and whites). And I can't see it changing the institutional racism built into the country's foundation. It'll take more than romantic love to tear that down.
I was annoyed at Ifemelu when she negated the Haitian woman's experience. Everything she says after about her own relationship with Curt was powerful and true. But she's been in the US for a few years, doesn't have the best record at relationships, romantic or otherwise. Yet she talks in absolutes about the most subjective topic ever.
I'm also not sure about the romantic love conclusion, especially since she hasn't experienced it. I think close relationships come in many forms. The things that can help are communication, honesty, responsibility. Is it the solution? I can't say, or I would do the exact thing I'm criticizing!
What do you think about Ifemelu's decision to remove the post about Black neighborhood in American inner cities? Do you think it would be possible to write a blog post about that topic, or a similar topic, that focused on observation without explanation?
A blog post, yes. A blog post is essentially a public diary. It isn’t an academic work, as Blaine wants to make it. Her blog is about her own feelings and observations. She doesn’t try to be objective or persuade her audience with research. She is trying to be observant, insightful, and critical of the world around her. She doesn’t need to research the history of redlining in order to make observations about black neighborhoods in cities and to see that there is a de facto segregation, even if de jure segregation is illegal. It is only necessary to do so if she wants to make claims about why that is.
Exactly. She’s not seeking to publish academic works, though she’s floored to know that professors are using her blog in an academic setting. Blaine can’t see how his push to shift the focus of her page is frustrating. It’s not her vision and it isn’t authentic what made her so popular in the first place.
Exactly. I think a balance could have been met by Ifemelu inviting an academic to her blog to explain the history and significance of redlining. She still could have gotten her observations across in the original post while providing subtext on the matter in an additional post.
Blaine interfered too much in her work and tried to mould her opinions into being more like his. It was disappointing to start hearing (I listened to this) her posts become more academic and proper rather than the personal observations of the world around her.
If you were wondering what exactly Blaine was talking about here, check out [this article](https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america) about redlining as US government policy.
Thanks for the article! Just terrible practices. I worry about the ways that the government is acting today with regard to the underprivileged, and then I read about what happened before. It's good we are much more outspoken about injustice in the world.
I find Blaine insufferable from Ifemelu's perspective. If she writes academically, she will lose the authenticity of her observational work. It might even start to feel more like propaganda to her readers. I think she could read about the redlining, but then make her own observations. Sometimes "ignorant" observations cut deeper and are more honest.
Right, it's important to understand the context because it can help parse why things are the way they are. But especially in the blog format, it feels more impactful and true to life to focus on observing and documenting the modern-day realities that actual people face. Going into the history could feel too pedantic and make it harder for her readers to connect with the subject.
Also if you talk about redlining from an academic perspective, readers know your opinion already. An observation without the context has that quality of feeling like a more neutral opinion or position that takes into account more present day realities.
Of course, we can't read around the world without figuring out where stuff is!
So Abia state and Onitsha are both located in Southeastern Nigeria, and are generally further south compared to Lagos: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/JtbAZG15ZM5pRcuo7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/JtbAZG15ZM5pRcuo7)
Kensington is a very nice area of London: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/GojgtjLsAc7D1XNa6](https://maps.app.goo.gl/GojgtjLsAc7D1XNa6)
Essex is a county that is part of the greater metro area of London. There's a town called Brentwood located in Southwest Essex, right next to the city - I'd like to think that's where the idea of Brentwood School came from: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/tvdqSAzatBEMMXMf9](https://maps.app.goo.gl/tvdqSAzatBEMMXMf9)
The way class in England still meant something to people was interesting to me, like how Nigel was cowed with the resident in Kensington purely based on his accent and location.
Okay, I'm not the biggest fan of Adichie's writing, but this part was painfully lovely:
>But that yes did not tell his story. That he lived in London indeed, but invisibly. His existence like a raised pencil sketch.
And this:
>Alexa, and the other guests, and perhaps even Georgina, all understood the fleeing from war, from the kind of poverty that crushed human souls, but they would not understand the need to escape from the oppressive lethargy of choicelessness. They would not understand why people like him, who were raised well fed and watered but mired in dissatisfaction, conditioned from birth to look towards somewhere else, eternally convinced that real lives happened in that somewhere else, were now resolved to do dangerous things, illegal things, so as to leave, none of them starving, or raped, or from burned villages, but merely hungry for choice and certainty.
There's just something about her Obinze sections that hit better for me.
Ifemelu feels all the things about her parents visiting her in Baltimore. Have you ever been caught in a surge of emotions when seeing family for the first time in a long time? Or worried about how the changes in your life will be received by them?
This part was so relatable! I have lived in different cities from my parents and/or in-laws for years, and every time they traveled to visit, it was a complicated combination of fun and exhausting. We always tried to cram in a bunch of sightseeing, which makes sense but isn't super relaxing, especially if I'm trying to keep multiple people happy. I always enjoyed the visits, but definitely felt relief when everyone went back home. I can understand the feeling of needing to justify all kinds of things: quirks of my new city, why I live so far away, etc. It gets tiring! I'm glad to have moved back to the same city as my parents, because now we can visit each other easily and quickly, and then go our separate ways.
This isn't exactly the same, but the closest example I have is getting help with my mental health. I had no experience with therapy and didn't know what to expect, so the decision to start was pretty scary. But it has made such a huge positive difference and I'm so glad I took that leap.
We get a first-hand experience of a person being undocumented and deported in this section. Have you read other texts about people who are undocumented immigrants in a country? Or even people that are stateless?
Maybe years ago, but this is the first undocumented immigration/deportation account I've read in awhile. I was surprised to learn about the holding facility at the airport and it was moving to imagine how powerless Obinze must have felt walking through the airport in handcuffs in front of all those regular travelers. I was also struck by the other detainees who planned to try again with different papers; it doesn't seem like Obinze will go that route. His dream of immigration appears to be completely shattered. I think this will be a big difference between him and Ifemelu if/when they meet up again: she is returning to Nigeria voluntarily, while Obinze was forced to return.
Yes I read [Solito by Javier Zamora](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59900688-solito?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_6) which narrates a nine year old coming into the USA undocumented. >!He was deported too in the story and had to sneak back in. It sounds terrible. !<
How did you like it? It’s been on my TBR for a while.
I liked it. He does a great job narrating his journey as a nine year old making keen observations without an adult's judgment.
I've had this on my TBR list for so long. I really need to move it up. This book gets checked out of my library all the time, especially the Spanish version. I think it resonates with a lot of people.
I mentioned this in a previous discussion, but [Asylum: A Memoir & Manifesto by Edafe Okporo](https://app.thestorygraph.com/books/33581f7e-23b5-49c8-96e4-6ec6fa1cf28f). I really can't recommend it enough. The difficulties Obinze faced reminded me a lot of what Edafe went through. I sort of forgot that Edafe was Nigerian too, which worked really well with Americanah.
Not in book form, but I sadly know many people who went or are still going through it. I find the diversity of behaviors described very realistic. From proud Obinze to blithe Iloba, and overcompensating Emenike.
Obinze is touched by Iloba offering his chin-chin, a ritual of hospitality that he remembered from visiting his mother's hometown as a child. Is there a ritual of hospitality or a ritual unique to your hometown that you're fond of?
A drink is always offered. Also bringing some food or drink to contribute when you visit the house of friends or family. But I'm not fond of this actually. When I was younger, we just went over to a friends house, but now as an adult, it's "appropriate" and "well-mannered" to bring something over. I miss the days when visiting friends wasn't such an "occasion."
I get that. Especially in the US, where it’s generally expected that you plan get togethers ahead of time as adults - there’s increasingly no space for just spur of the moment hangouts or spending time together.
In my family, it was mint tea and north African pastries. The smell of mint makes me nostalgic.
Do you think it was wise of Obinze to ignore Vincent's demand for a raise? Do you think it was wise of Vincent to report Obinze when he didn't agree?
In some ways, it was a slippery slope to cave to Vincent's demands and I can see why Obinze didn't think he'd actually report him. I'm quite surprised that he did, because he completely cut off any money from Obinze. Maybe Vincent thought he could get a better deal from someone else?
I believe Obinze was fairly close to marrying Cleotilde at that point (although I sometimes struggle with the relative timing of events in this book, so I could be wrong). If I'm right, then I would have given Vincent more money in the hopes of tiding him over; after the wedding, Obinze would have had more security and wouldn't need to rely on Vincent much longer.
This is the smart answer.
Obinze definitely thought he was bluffing. It’s unfortunate that Vincent was incredibly serious. Still, if he had held out longer, Vincent could have continued to extort money from Obinze indefinitely.
I think his spite and rancour were more pressing than his finances. Seemed like an entirely repellant guy. Imagine turning in a fellow working-class African like yourself. Absolutely zero social solidarity. Asshole.
Vincent is extorting him and I would also be tempted to not give him more money. I might appease him at first, but it's a tough situation. I like u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 suggestion to give him money until he got married.
This is such a hard one because I don't think there's an easy answer. If I was Obinze, I probably would have paid Vincent the extra money out of caution and fear of losing the ID. I can understand why Obinze refused to do it. Vincent, however . . . that really seemed like a stupid move to report Obinze. That was his extra income! But I'm assuming that Vincent could easily find someone else in Obinze's situation that would be willing to pay even more.
Do you think Ginika is right about Ifemelu self-sabotaging her romantic relationships? What about Ifemelu's dissatisfaction with Curt, in that she felt like there was something missing in what she should be feeling? We already know that Ifemelu breaks up with Blaine later on - do you think that will be a case of self-sabotage too?
This is a great question. I don't see it as self-sabotage. Yes, Ifemelu gave up what seemed to be a stable and loving relationship, but if it didn't meet her needs, then it isn't self-sabotage. Ifemelu has been struggling against the idea of assimilation while still seeking ways to belong in the U.S. ever since she arrived. But she isn't willing to overhaul her personality, appearance, accent, etc. in order to find that belonging. In this way, she is different from Ginika. We know that Ifemelu's quest is leading her back to Nigeria, which is a pretty drastic move. To me, that says her relationship with Curt would never work because she is seeking a belonging and authenticity to her Nigerian roots that she wouldn't be able to fully express with him, no matter how loving he is.
I agree — it’s not self-sabotage if it isn’t really what she wants. And at this point, she doesn’t really know what she wants.
Right, if anything, she could be self-sabotaging by remaining static. Curt and Blaine are polar opposites though both are supportive of Ifemelu on the surface. Outside perspectives tend to blame partners who are dissatisfied and act on it because they can’t understand where the disconnect is. Ginika’s comment is coming from a supportive place, but she’s also not in it to know why Ifemelu is pulling away.
Exactly. Just because someone is 'comfortable' does not mean they're happy. Few people would have the same reaction if their friend quit a cushy job that didn't excite them.
I really like the way the author writes Ifemelu. We can see how Ifemelu stays connected to her Nigerian roots, but also how she adapts and sometimes subsumes herself with the people in her life, especially romantic partners. I find it realistic to life. "For weeks, Ifemelu stumbled around, trying to remember the person she was before Curt." Ifemelu was swept away by the romance with Curt and was enjoying him so much that she forgot herself briefly. I would call it self-sabotage when she sleeps with her neighbor. Her not being connected to herself caused her to do something that would cause a break up or force some independence.
I like this interpretation. By sleeping with the neighbor, Ifemelu manufactured a reason to end things with Curt, even though she didn't necessarily realize why they needed to end. As you said, she had lost herself and sabotaged her otherwise-stable relationship in the (possibly subconscious) hopes of finding herself again.
So much self-sabotage. I was glad someone called her out on it. Ifemelu always feels like she's in these relationships because it's what is expected of her. There's always this distance she has when talking about her partners. It's like Ifemelu just goes through life unconnected, without deep relationships, so she just goes along with it when it comes to people liking her. I wonder if this self-sabotage stuff stems from her mom and all that religious stuff Ifemelu watched her go through.
>There's always this distance she has when talking about her partners. It's like Ifemelu just goes through life unconnected, without deep relationships, so she just goes along with it when it comes to people liking her. I totally agree with this analysis and I find it the most salient point about her. I think the challenges in her relationships (distance with Obinze, cultural differences with Kurt, I'm not sure what with Blaine) become excuses to never open herself. Even in friendships with people in the same situation as her, she remains guarded. It makes me sad.
We see Obinze contemplate that his initial efforts to meet with Emenike was another iteration of loved ones that become harsh and jaded after they move above, and his astonishment at Nicholas's demeanor. We also see Obinze surprised at Ojiugo's contentment with raising her children and Iloba's sincere eagerness to help him find work. Have you ever been surprised by how a loved one changed after a major life event that affected you both?
I can't think of a direct experience off the top of my head, but I wanted to say I was disappointed in Emenike, though maybe not surprised. His suggestion that Obinze see a play on the West End struck me as incredibly tone deaf, like he has no memory of the struggles he probably also faced when he first arrived in the UK. Emenike has completely embraced his British persona and doesn't seem to have much empathy, respect, or even understanding of Obinze's situation. I would much rather have Ginika as a friend; even though she has assimilated pretty well into US society, she is still understanding of Ifemelu's struggles and does her best to help.
It's amazing how Obinze and Ifemelu still have beliefs and attitudes connected to Nigeria, but their friends seem to have just left it behind. Emenike seemed so "western" in his attitudes and speech to me, blending in with his friends. And to answer your question, no, I have not had that experience.
Why do you think there was such a contrast between Emenike's story about the cab driver when he told it to Obinze versus at the dinner party?
This was a really insightful scene. People from minorities, especially black men, are not supposed to be angry about racism because others view that anger as a threat. There's also the "look how far we've come" mentality which Ifemelu challenges, which makes white people dismiss racist interactions as "not that bad, it used to be so much worse". So Emenike edited the anger out of his story when telling the party guests, whereas he could be more genuine with Obinze.
Yeah, it was a great parallel when Ifemelu dispels the notion in the next chapter. I didn't notice that when I was reading, good catch. I think the most prominent example of this in recent memory is when Will Smith slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars, and when people asked Chris why he didn't do anything about it, he replied something like, "My parents taught me not to fight in front of white people." I imagine the hyper-vigilance that young black men especially have to perform in certain social situations (especially around police) is so ingrained it almost becomes unconscious.
Again, I'm going to agree with u/Less_Tumbleweed_3217 and u/BrayGC. An alternative explanation is that now that he has gotten some distance from the experience as well as feeling more stable and situated in England, he can talk about it without being angry. Similarly, he told Obinze the story sooner after it happened and Obinze is also a better audience to hear it.
I agree with the race aspect. I'll add a class element. Every guest is upper class, and in polite society, it's frowned upon to bring heavy personal subjects. A funny anecdote will fit the mood, trauma will not.
What do you think about Nicholas's and Ojiugo's behavior when visiting Obinze at the holding facility?
I liked the contrast between Iloba's visit and Nicholas's. While Iloba's crying made Obinze uncomfortable, it also gave him the chance to be strong and put on a brave face. It also showed how much Iloba cared about him. In contrast, Nicholas and Ojiugo were probably trying to make Obinze feel better by acting like everything was normal, but the truth is, the situation wasn't normal. Iloba's response felt more genuine and it created a connection with Obinze; Nicholas and Ojiugo came across as distant and indifferent to what Obinze was actually experiencing.
It mirrors how emotionally involved they were in their relationship with Obinze throughout his stay in England.
Nicholas and Ojiugo sounded almost embarrassed to see Obinze in jail and didn't know how to express themselves appropriately. They were very tone deaf to the situation.
That's true. I wonder if they worried they'd be implicated somehow, since they had helped Obinze.
Do you agree with Ifemelu's premise that only real deep romantic love between American Blacks and American Whites can end the problem of race? What about her premise that American society is set up to make such a thing rare between American Blacks and American Whites? Or her premise that friendship is not sufficient enough to end the problem of race (Given the plot, we're talking about race in American society, but feel free to expand this to other contexts, such as the discussion around class in the UK at the dinner party.)
I hope not! Cause that will take a long long time to heal. I think we are doing better with implicit bias trainings, and making governmental and private organizations require their employees to understand cultural differences and experiences. All of that helps. Ifemelu might be relating her terrible experience speaking with that group in Ohio, and how that just seemed to fall flat. She did a good service speaking to them, but they will need to hear it over and over and over before they will even want to understand it. Midwest whites, generally, will be the last to appreciate cultural differences. Prove me wrong please!
I don't think that deep romantic love will end the problem of race in America only because it will be impacting fewer people. For those involved in the relationship and the people in their circle, I could see that love making an impact. But that's so few people (it goes back to her statement about American society making that love rare between Blacks and whites). And I can't see it changing the institutional racism built into the country's foundation. It'll take more than romantic love to tear that down.
I was annoyed at Ifemelu when she negated the Haitian woman's experience. Everything she says after about her own relationship with Curt was powerful and true. But she's been in the US for a few years, doesn't have the best record at relationships, romantic or otherwise. Yet she talks in absolutes about the most subjective topic ever. I'm also not sure about the romantic love conclusion, especially since she hasn't experienced it. I think close relationships come in many forms. The things that can help are communication, honesty, responsibility. Is it the solution? I can't say, or I would do the exact thing I'm criticizing!
What do you think about Ifemelu's decision to remove the post about Black neighborhood in American inner cities? Do you think it would be possible to write a blog post about that topic, or a similar topic, that focused on observation without explanation?
A blog post, yes. A blog post is essentially a public diary. It isn’t an academic work, as Blaine wants to make it. Her blog is about her own feelings and observations. She doesn’t try to be objective or persuade her audience with research. She is trying to be observant, insightful, and critical of the world around her. She doesn’t need to research the history of redlining in order to make observations about black neighborhoods in cities and to see that there is a de facto segregation, even if de jure segregation is illegal. It is only necessary to do so if she wants to make claims about why that is.
Exactly. She’s not seeking to publish academic works, though she’s floored to know that professors are using her blog in an academic setting. Blaine can’t see how his push to shift the focus of her page is frustrating. It’s not her vision and it isn’t authentic what made her so popular in the first place.
Exactly. I think a balance could have been met by Ifemelu inviting an academic to her blog to explain the history and significance of redlining. She still could have gotten her observations across in the original post while providing subtext on the matter in an additional post. Blaine interfered too much in her work and tried to mould her opinions into being more like his. It was disappointing to start hearing (I listened to this) her posts become more academic and proper rather than the personal observations of the world around her.
If you were wondering what exactly Blaine was talking about here, check out [this article](https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america) about redlining as US government policy.
Thanks for the article! Just terrible practices. I worry about the ways that the government is acting today with regard to the underprivileged, and then I read about what happened before. It's good we are much more outspoken about injustice in the world.
I find Blaine insufferable from Ifemelu's perspective. If she writes academically, she will lose the authenticity of her observational work. It might even start to feel more like propaganda to her readers. I think she could read about the redlining, but then make her own observations. Sometimes "ignorant" observations cut deeper and are more honest.
Right, it's important to understand the context because it can help parse why things are the way they are. But especially in the blog format, it feels more impactful and true to life to focus on observing and documenting the modern-day realities that actual people face. Going into the history could feel too pedantic and make it harder for her readers to connect with the subject.
Also if you talk about redlining from an academic perspective, readers know your opinion already. An observation without the context has that quality of feeling like a more neutral opinion or position that takes into account more present day realities.
Anything else you want to discuss?
Of course, we can't read around the world without figuring out where stuff is! So Abia state and Onitsha are both located in Southeastern Nigeria, and are generally further south compared to Lagos: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/JtbAZG15ZM5pRcuo7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/JtbAZG15ZM5pRcuo7) Kensington is a very nice area of London: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/GojgtjLsAc7D1XNa6](https://maps.app.goo.gl/GojgtjLsAc7D1XNa6) Essex is a county that is part of the greater metro area of London. There's a town called Brentwood located in Southwest Essex, right next to the city - I'd like to think that's where the idea of Brentwood School came from: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/tvdqSAzatBEMMXMf9](https://maps.app.goo.gl/tvdqSAzatBEMMXMf9)
I love this! Sometimes I look up places to see where in the world are we?
The way class in England still meant something to people was interesting to me, like how Nigel was cowed with the resident in Kensington purely based on his accent and location.
Okay, I'm not the biggest fan of Adichie's writing, but this part was painfully lovely: >But that yes did not tell his story. That he lived in London indeed, but invisibly. His existence like a raised pencil sketch. And this: >Alexa, and the other guests, and perhaps even Georgina, all understood the fleeing from war, from the kind of poverty that crushed human souls, but they would not understand the need to escape from the oppressive lethargy of choicelessness. They would not understand why people like him, who were raised well fed and watered but mired in dissatisfaction, conditioned from birth to look towards somewhere else, eternally convinced that real lives happened in that somewhere else, were now resolved to do dangerous things, illegal things, so as to leave, none of them starving, or raped, or from burned villages, but merely hungry for choice and certainty. There's just something about her Obinze sections that hit better for me.
I also noticed the second quotation and really liked it. And I agree with you, I like the Obinze chapters more than the Ifemelu chapters.
Ifemelu feels all the things about her parents visiting her in Baltimore. Have you ever been caught in a surge of emotions when seeing family for the first time in a long time? Or worried about how the changes in your life will be received by them?
This part was so relatable! I have lived in different cities from my parents and/or in-laws for years, and every time they traveled to visit, it was a complicated combination of fun and exhausting. We always tried to cram in a bunch of sightseeing, which makes sense but isn't super relaxing, especially if I'm trying to keep multiple people happy. I always enjoyed the visits, but definitely felt relief when everyone went back home. I can understand the feeling of needing to justify all kinds of things: quirks of my new city, why I live so far away, etc. It gets tiring! I'm glad to have moved back to the same city as my parents, because now we can visit each other easily and quickly, and then go our separate ways.
Have you ever had an experience like Ifemelu with her blog, where you give something a try and it turns out a lot better than you expected?
This isn't exactly the same, but the closest example I have is getting help with my mental health. I had no experience with therapy and didn't know what to expect, so the decision to start was pretty scary. But it has made such a huge positive difference and I'm so glad I took that leap.
What is one of the most ridiculous blog or social media comments you've read, and how does it compare to "Black women are allowed to weigh more?"
I don't read blogs! Unless you count the reddit comment section. But man is that a racist statement!