I agree on the blackmail theory, and it makes sense that it could have to do with Mr. Dick. We know his other relatives wanted to keep him in an institution, so I wonder if she's paying someone to keep him out?
Yeah, I did have the same thought. It was kind of shocking behavior on her part given what we know if her so far. There seems to be no end of secrets...
I dont know, but I find it weird that he is stalking her outside of her home. How did he know that she would be traveling to meet David? Some kind of debt collector is my guess. Begs the question, how did she go into debt. I feel like Dickens, in his highlighting of poverty, would also want to highlight debt collection in keeping people poor.
My assumption was Martha has found herself pregnant by some "gentleman" who has abandoned her and Em'ly has recognized this could be her fate as well if she gives in to Steerforth who has probably been trying to lure her away from Ham.
Great prediction! Steerforth does seem wrapped up in this somehow, even though he hasn't been in Yarmouth that long. He wouldn't waste any time, though.
I think Martha’s story serves as a warning of what may happen to Em’ly if she isn’t careful. The way Martha followed Em’ly in the shadows reminded me of a ghost haunting someone, and that in turn reminded me of a haunting in another Dickens work. While Jacob Marley was little more than a figment of Scrooge’s imagination, old Ebenezer still heeded the warnings of his late partner. I can only hope the same will hold true for Em’ly before it’s too late.
She comes from the Oren family.... She is talked about in the village as dishonorable..... Emily works with the Orens and befriended her there likely.... Maybe Joren impregnated her! Ugh I would not like that. In those days, being ostracized by the village you live is likely the worst thing to imagine. Maybe we will find out later.
she is odd. I think it shows that Steerforth has a history of consorting with a wide variety of acquaintances so him getting to know the Peggotty's is not as unusual for him as I would have thought.
Interesting! I agree, and thinking back it seems like a lot of his acquaintances (Rosa, Miss Mowcher, even Tommy Traddles back at school) seem to be those who are sort of on the edges of accepted society. He collects these people and enjoys but but doesn't respect them. Could it be a commentary on how he sees himself - uncomfortable with who he is and secretly insecure about the judgement of others - so that these types of people make it easier for him to feel like a king?
This is a great observation! I think Mr. Steerforth may be a very dark character indeed. "Enjoys but doesn't respect" - sounds like a narcissist to me.
This makes a lot of sense. I thought it was telling that Steerforth found Miss Mowcher hilarious but David did not. That's one of the few times David has been at odds with Steerforth or disliked something his hero enjoyed. Both she and Rosa are capable of revealing Steerforth's unsavory side to David.
Great point! I didn't think about David's reaction compared to Steerforth's. You're right, it is so rare for him to disagree with his buddy. Get better friends, David!
I think we’re meant to compare the way Steerforth acts with his circle (Mowcher, his mom) with the way David acts with his in Yarmouth. Steerforth becomes even more brash and judgmental when he’s around his people. Miss Mowcher is a perfect example of someone who brings out the worst in him.
"If either of you saw my ankles, say so, and I’ll go home and destroy myself!"
Tell me you're a Victorian woman without telling me you're a Victorian woman. 😂
But seriously, I found this whole scene very weird, especially because of the note in the Penguin Classics version that says she was based on a real person who may have threatened to sue Dickens over this character. Given that society treated people with dwarfism like freaks back then, exhibiting them in sideshows and everything, I couldn't help but feel vaguely uncomfortable about this scene, even though the character herself was likeable.
She reminds me of Mother Oldershaw in Armadale. They are both >!shady practitioners of the beautifying arts: brash, conniving, and on the edge of respectability. I think it's a bad sign that Steerforth hangs out with Mowcher, just like it was bad news for Lydia to be mixed up with Oldershaw.!<
Oh, that's a really good comparison, and I can't unsee it now. I don't get >!evil!< vibes from Miss Mowcher, though. (Although I could certainly be wrong about that.) I don't know if Steerforth's association with her necessarily a bad reflection on her. He seems like the kind of person who'd condescendingly hire an "amusing" person to be his hairdresser.
Comparison with Demon Copperhead: >!I suspect Mouse is a composite of Mowcher and Rosa, in which case I think both of them will be bad news for David.!<
The more I think about Miss Mowcher the more intrigued I get. Such a quirky, salty individual. Apparently she was a chiropodist - if she was in my town I would definitely sign up for a session.
She was really funny and creepy! I've no idea of her purpose, was she just there for some comic relief or will she come up again? Is she just there to show the type of people that Steerforth is involved with?
I like the idea that she reveals something of Steerforth's odd life choices.
By the way, my edition's notes say that Miss Mowcher was based on a "practitioner" who tended Dickens' wife, and that he had to make some changes to her character in order to avoid legal action.
Sorry, was working from memory there. The term in my note (from Penguin Classics) is "chiropodist" - which is basically a podiatrist. The lady in question was Mrs. Seymour Hill.
I found her very confusing. She talks like a child?? But Steerforth says she is arguing with the pair of them when she joins the conversation?
\*visible confusion\*
Whatever larger thematic story there might be (and people have interesting ideas about that), I agree with you that the details of this character are hard to make sense of. Apparently based on a real person so maybe this is just an elaborate inside joke. Didn't really work for me either.
I was just wondering if people have written about her, and found this link: >!(which contains spoilers, so I stopped reading). Be warned! https://dickens.ucsc.edu/programs/dickens-to-go/haridresser-heroine.html!<
I think he is feeling down in life. He has no benefactors like David does. What David sees as a "restless nature and bold spirit" may actually indicate an aimlessness. Steerforth wishes he had a father to guide him.
I agree with u/bluebelle236 that he is up to no good! The constant descriptions of Littimer as "perfectly respectable" reminded me of Uriah's insistence on being "umble" so that can't be a good sign.
I love that comparison. Steerforth gets the same treatment. Wait, is Peggotty (who is constantly praised) going to wind up being rotten too? Somehow I think that's different.
I think there’s a distinction between looking and acting the part of someone who’s respectable, and actually performing actions that are worthy of respect. So far, all we’ve seen of Littimer is the former, whereas Peggotty has been nothing but devoted and selfless toward David and his mother, and is therefore worthy of respect.
This is a distinction that David doesn't seem to understand. He's operating out of a conventional mindset - makes me wonder how he acquired that. At school? Peggotty really is his model of integrity and he should pay more attention. Maybe he will...
I do hope David gets a little more aware and loses some naïvité. Although I should be careful what I wish for because a Dickensian dose of reality will probably come at an unpleasant cost.
It's a little odd that the Murdstones and the sadistic schoolmasters and the thief and the butcher didn't knock some skepticism about human nature into David. Maybe we're witnessing a post-traumatic response in his attitude to Steerforth.
And why do I keep wanting to call the Murdstones the "Murderbots"?
>And why do I keep wanting to call the Murdstones the "Murderbots"?
🤣😂 The Murdstones in space is a funny mental picture! Thank you!
I'm also surprised David has kept his innocence after all those encounters. Older narrator David doesn't seem to apologize for his younger self or give hints yet as to what might break through his naivety.
Definitely! And Peggoty would probably be modest about any compliments and tell you not to make too much fuss about her, whereas Littimer and Uriah seem to actively want to cultivate that kind of impression.
It must suck to be Steerforth’s servant and put up with his shenanigans. I would imagine he’s had to clean up quite a few messes for him over his tenure. Part of his demeanor may come from that resentment.
Good point about his demeanor as a sort of defense mechanism for working for a creep. So does that mean he's going to be recruited to clean up an upcoming mess?
I think this is likely the case. Poor guy probably has seen a lot that he'd rather not see, but can't do anything about it because of his lack of status.
Me too. He does a very good job of acting respectful when he's with the Peggotys, so I was surprised when he let those comments slip in front of David. If that's what he really thinks of them, why is he spending so much time with them? Just slumming it, I guess? Yuck.
This didn't surprise me since the visit to boarding school indicated Steerforth sort of considered them the seafaring equivalent of "country bumpkins". He's just so gross, and all the more so because he uses enough charm to sort of convince you to thank him as he insults you.
I think he seems pretty focused on Ham and Em'ly right now, and I'm not sure yet if this implies an outright confrontation in the future or if he'll just continue his snobby comments and try to turn David into a jerk like him. Given his own home life, I think Steerforth admires the Peggoty family dynamic but hates that feeling and twists his shame/envy into cruelty. Classic bully!
Why didn't David say anything about that?? I was waiting for some push back against the comments, but I suppose the poor guy is so in thrall to Steerforth that he can't even think of it.
3 - What are your thoughts about Steerforth at this point? What do you think of David’s apparently boundless trust of him? Does the nickname “Daisy” fit?
I really wish David wouldn't be so naive and see Steerforth for what he is. The nickname Daisy is so patronising and he dresses it up as a cute, affectionate nickname, but it definitely isn't.
I admit, David's naivete is beginning to annoy me. The name does fit, but I agree with you - it is a patronising one because it shows that Steerforth intends to take advantage of David.
I agree about the naivete. What I find a little more troubling is that Narrator David displays a similar naivete when presumably he knows better by now. I get that this is a good device for keeping the cliffhangers coming, but it seems a little artificial.
I thought the same thing, but then I also thought that David has been the victim of such cruelty in his life that he may just be willing to accept at face value anyone that is nice to him. He doesn't want to look under the surface and have that taken away
Completely agree with you there. I hated how David just seemed to go along with it, like he actually sees himself as beneath Steerforth. The guy can walk all over him like a doormat, and David would thank him for the honour.
I still think Steerforth was manipulative and David need to steer clear from him. David was still in denial, he saw some diturbing realization about Steerforth' commentaries and yet still tried to justify it.
Daisy symbolizes purity, innocence, rebirth. I guess Steerforth picked that name because it sounded like David and it's a feminine name. But Victorians were fans of flower language iirc, so maybe there's a subtle hint to call David as gullible.
You made me curious about how daisies fit into the Victorian language of flowers! So I found this: [https://www.floraly.com.au/blogs/news/the-daisy-flower-meanings](https://www.floraly.com.au/blogs/news/the-daisy-flower-meanings)
"In the Victorian Era, daisies symbolised innocence, loyalty and an ability to keep things secret. You could give someone a posy of daisies, and in the language of flowers ([floriography](https://www.floraly.com.au/blogs/news/floriography-the-meaning-of-flowers)), this could be taken to mean **their secret was safe with you**."
So this might be some foreshadowing.
Oh, no, what secret will David be forced to keep for Steerforth?! It better not have anything to do with the Peggoty family and that boat.
Thanks for the link - very interesting!
He’s a slimy guy underneath all that charisma. David idolizes him so he can’t see his jabs at him like calling him Daisy. I interpret that to be like calling him a pansy.
That is an interesting flower comparison. So I had to look up "pansy" in the language of flowers, which is supposedly something like "love and affectionate thought". But I grew up with "pansy" being a slur against "unmanly" men, and I think that's probably what you mean here.
And whatever the norms were in Victorian times, I also can't escape the idea that Steerforth is mocking David's innocence and weakness by giving him a flower nickname.
More nicknames! First "Trot", now "Daisy". The fact that David readily accepts both of these new names with no pushback exemplifies how much he lets other people walk over him. I think Betsey has a lot of love in her heart for David and so it doesn't bother me as much. I cannot say the same about the manipulative, classist Steerforth. Given that the book is titled "DAVID Copperfield", I wonder if there is a point where David asserts himself more and insists on being called by his real name.
Everyone wants to rename David! Even Mr. Murdstone—remember how David had to say his last name was Murdstone in order to get the dinner which had been paid for?
I agree completely. Betsey renaming him was actually kind of sweet, since it shows she really sees him as her adoptive son. Steerforth, on the other hand, gave him a deliberately insulting nickname to mock his naivety.
I think their relationship shows that David is still very immature and overly trusting. Sure, he isn't getting duped by waiters stealing his food but he is missing a lot of things that are only slightly subtler. On the one hand, it's nice to believe the best of everyone and take people at their word. But on the other hand, it makes you a pretty easy mark for being taken advantage of. I do think that Daisy is unfortunately an apt nickname given how naively David acts (and it rhymes with Davey), but it isn't a kind one, and I wince every time he willingly answers to it.
He did knock the butcher's tooth out, I will give him that. But yes, there's a lot of immaturity there, and David is highly vulnerable. The nickname really helps to emphasize that.
I don't get his sudden apparent change of heart. Is it just because he has feelings for Little Em'ly?
I also don't get how David can possibly be this naive. He literally heard Steerforth dehumanize the Peggottys when Steerforth was talking to his mother and Miss Dartle. That should have been a wakeup call.
Steerforth showed David kindness during one of the lowest points in his life, so I think it's going to take a lot for him to lose David's affections. He feels this huge debt of gratitude to Steerforth and goes out of his way to believe the best about him. In examples like the one you mentioned, David is willfully blind to Steerforth's true nature and chalks comments like that up to Steerforth's frivolous and joking manner.
Luckily or unluckily, Steerforth seems like the type of person to push his luck. I predict he will reveal more and more of himself to David over time and will find ways to corrupt the Yarmouth set, in part as a way to see how much David is willing to take. Eventually, David will be forced to open his eyes to Steerforth's true nature.
2 - Jack Maldon’s letters from India and Annie’s response stir up a strong reaction in David: he sees “the impending shadow of a great affliction, and a great disgrace.” What’s your prediction about this “shadow”?
Perhaps the suspicion about affair between Annie and Jack would be unraveled? Annie had been acting strangely everytime Jack was there / mentioned. I think people who were close to her also could sense something wrong.
>I think people who were close to her also could sense something wrong.
I was starting to get some hints that perhaps her husband knew more than he let on. Do you think he sent Jack on purpose to India to get him out of the picture (and maybe for good, since it seems like people would get sent there to die ala Miss Betsey's Mr. Trotwood)?
>I think people who were close to her also could sense something wrong.
I'm too lazy to look up the quote, but when Mr. Wickfield was arranging to send Jack to India, he said something to the doctor like "I want to be sure, you want him out of the country, right?" and the doctor acted like he didn't know what Wickfield was talking about. I don't know if the doctor was playing dumb, or if he literally didn't understand what was going on, and sending Jack away to prevent scandal was everyone else's doing.
From the start, I thought Wickfield suspected it for sure and this interaction made me think that he wasn't quite sure if the doctor also suspected it or not.
I agree, Wickfield definitely knows what's going on. I can't get a clear read on the doctor, but my impression is that he's oblivious. There have been many remarks about how easy it is for others to take advantage of him. I think Wickfield is trying to protect his friend while trying his best to preserve Annie's reputation. Looks like his plans are in danger of being foiled, though.
The doctor is much harder to read, I agree! I'm interested to see what will come of all this. I like the interpretation that Wickfield was protecting Annie's reputation and his friend's feelings - much more generous and "chivalrous" than someone just trying to dispose of a suitor!
The way Wickfield was watching Annie was a little disconcerting. He seemed very nervous about Annie and Agnes having positive interactions and almost seemed to want to stop it. Maybe he doesn't trust Annie because there is some suspicion she isn't being faithful, and doesn't want Agnes around her. Even David thought it was an "ill-sorted friendship."
It seems quite possible! I wonder what the common practice was if a woman was caught in infidelity? (We all know there'd be no consequences for a husband...)
To me the telling detail was the red ribbon that she gave to Jack as he was leaving. I'm not saying others (beside) David noticed that, but there have probably been other indications. Certainly her reaction to Jack's letter to her (read hilariously by her mother) would be suspicious.
However, I do agree with you that this triangle situation has been pretty murky from the beginning and is still pretty murky.
1 - David has a rare period of happiness at school in Canterbury, except for his mild if fruitless flirtations with Miss Shepherd and Miss Larkins. Were you surprised by this relatively undramatic phase of an otherwise pretty dramatic story?
Ah yes, the butcher. I was going to include a discussion question about the butcher's missing tooth. Pretty amusing but not quite in character for David.
Actually I was quite surprised. I was ready for the drama between Annie, her cousin, and her husband but perhaps it's for the future. At least we as reader could take a breather. I could see some troubles brewing though.
Agreed, I was glad to take a break for hardship for a little while! Especially since there are so many pages left to go, so we know more hardships are likely right around the corner!
Yes! It surprised me to see the lengthy (for Dickens) section of DC's life go past in relative tranquility. I kept expecting the other shoe to drop in several circumstances - would the fighting get him kicked out of school or would Steerforth be rude and cruel to the Peggoty clan? - but it was refreshing to see David (I can't bring myself to call him Trot) experience stability! But never fear, I do think towards the end of this section we got some hints that a storm or two is brewing...
It felt a bit to me like Dickens saying "OK, I have to get David old enough so he can drink and have a career and do other grown-up things - no need to linger over this period." But also giving us poor readers a break after so many twists and turns (and apparently more ahead).
>(I can't bring myself to call him Trot)
WTF is up with this? If this book had any other title, I'd be like "okay, he's Trotwood now, no big deal," but this book is literally called *David Copperfield.* Is he going to get disowned at some point? Did Dickens start publishing it before he realized that he was going to change the character's name? Is Trotwood just a nickname, not his new legal name? (Did they even have legal name changes back then?)
I was, but it was nice for him to be able to relax, and grow up normally, and engage in flirtations (which were hilarious - poor David, but that is exactly what a boy would do, lol)
Surprised, but happy. I said back in the first discussion that I worried this book would be unrelenting misery porn. I'm glad it didn't go in that direction. David's life has good parts and bad parts, and the bad parts can be taken more seriously due to their not being some sort of over-the-top attempt at making this story as dark as possible.
Completely agree, those were really rough. We know more bad stuff is bound to happen to David and it will suck, but at least he'll have more of a fighting chance to get himself out of trouble than he did as a helpless child.
14 - Apply the Goldilocks Test to the mysterious characters in this section: Too many? Not enough? Just right? Which of these characters is most intriguing to you at this point?
I think this section had too many. I couldn't keep up who's who.
I'm intrigued with the man who followed Aunt Betsey. It seemed like he already following her for a long time and she knew about him too. Wonder what he's doing with Aunt Betsey. I hope nothing bad will happen to her!
Great question! I would say too much, except I think it just feels that way because the dam is about to burst. We were building up a lot of pressure plot-wise during this peaceful time in David's life so the mysterious people are all in a bundle of suspense right now but will probably thin out as David enters the next phase of his life. Unless Dickens just continues to add more as we go... And then, too many for sure!
Hopefully a lot of money so Peggoty will be a well supported widow one day! I do think (hope?) Barkis has a heart of gold under his traditional and stingy surface. If anyone other than Davy deserves a happy ending, it's Peggoty!
I'm imagining dragon's hoard-level of riches: piles of gold coins, gemstones the size of chicken eggs, diamond-encrusted crowns, enchanted swords, the Holy Grail...
Yessss I want this too!!! I also think Barkis has a good heart and truly loves Peggoty. I would love if he's saving all that money so she'll have it when he's gone!
The scar seems to symbolize Steerforth's underlying menace, as others pointed out. I'll just add that I found it symbolic that when Rosa blanches, the scar is the first thing to go white, like a warning sign - Davy should see this scar as a flashing "Caution" light and *steer clear of Steerforth*. (Sorry, had to.)
I like that! It is a potent image. And that portrait looking down at David as he falls asleep. Almost a Steven King quality (reading Pet Sematary right now, so I'm feelin' it).
I am so glad you brought up the gender aspect. MIss Mowcher is another interesting example of a character who is outside gender norms, and she and Rosa seem quite parallel.
We also have a couple of characters (probably Annie, certainly Martha Endell) who are morally scarred and similarly marginalized.
I'm probably overthinking this, but how does a hammer cause a scar like that? If she were missing some teeth, it would make more sense. I don't see why Steerforth would lie about it, though.
I pictured the hammer hitting her face with the claw side, that's the only way I can imagine a scar coming from it. And yeah I did just google "parts of a hammer" because I couldn't figure out how to describe it lol
I agree, and since I assume we can't be done with Agnes and her father (or Uriah *shudder*) maybe they'll help him find a more fulfilling path. (He mentioned he'd be there often in the future but never live there full time.)
I’m with you here. It’s not like he sought out this career for himself. He was given some time to soul search, came up short, and was told what field he’s going into. I think this will be a short-lived part of his journey.
he's also still super young so I feel like he's like "sure this'll do for now, why not!" He's had such a shit life that he'll take all the help he can get
He very nearly missed out on an education and genteel career entirely, so he may be in a mindset to just take what he can get. He hasn't had to make too many of his own choices yet and I sense he hasn't quite learned the knack.
Somehow I feel something sinister is going on. It's like he hinted to Mr Peggoty / David that he could buy Em'ly. Or maybe in following chapters Steerforth could take away the boat anytime he likes and saying "I'm taking 'Little Em'ly' with me" as a cruel joke.
This is a great interpretation! I can definitely see Steerforth hatching this type of plan. I do think it shows he'd like to possess Em'ly. Whether his motive is love/attraction or to dominate Ham (or both) is up in the air in my opinion.
I have such bad feels about this! I suspect Steerforth will be part of Em'ly's downfall that was foreshadowered earlier. My guess is that he is jealous of Ham, and wants to prove he is the "better" man and sees it as a challenge to win Little Em'ly away. But I don't think he will actually want to be with her when he "wins" her.
He's secretly (well actually, not so secret, I mean who names a boat after someone he isn't in love with..) in love with her, how inappropriate, Ham must be raging!
12 - Who is the mysterious man that Aunt Betsey goes off with in the carriage?
I have a suspicion that the man was Aunt Betsey's husband and he extorted her to keep her secrets.
That seems very possible. What kind of secrets would Aunt Betsey have, I wonder?
That’s what I’m thinking, too.
Very mysterious! Could she be being blackmailed? And if so, by whom and why??
That's a good theory. It makes me wonder if it has something to do with Mr. Dick.
I agree on the blackmail theory, and it makes sense that it could have to do with Mr. Dick. We know his other relatives wanted to keep him in an institution, so I wonder if she's paying someone to keep him out?
Yeah, I like that direction.
I like this theory! She cares for him so much
This was so out of character for her! I thought that once David came to be with her we would be done with the secrets.
Yeah, I did have the same thought. It was kind of shocking behavior on her part given what we know if her so far. There seems to be no end of secrets...
We have a lot of the book left to go, so I guess it's inevitable that more secrets would turn up.
yes, who is it ??!! I really want to know.
Me too! Fortunately there are a lot of pages left, so Mr. Dickens can--eventually--spill the beans.
I dont know, but I find it weird that he is stalking her outside of her home. How did he know that she would be traveling to meet David? Some kind of debt collector is my guess. Begs the question, how did she go into debt. I feel like Dickens, in his highlighting of poverty, would also want to highlight debt collection in keeping people poor.
That's a good theory, given Dickens' interest in that sort of thing. And ties into what happened to the Micawbers.
11 - We meet Martha Endell briefly before she disappears in disgrace. What are your thoughts on her back story? Why is Em’ly so upset in this scene?
My assumption was Martha has found herself pregnant by some "gentleman" who has abandoned her and Em'ly has recognized this could be her fate as well if she gives in to Steerforth who has probably been trying to lure her away from Ham.
That makes a lot of sense. I like the idea that Martha is a mirror of the situation Em'ly is facing.
Agreed.
Great prediction! Steerforth does seem wrapped up in this somehow, even though he hasn't been in Yarmouth that long. He wouldn't waste any time, though.
I agree with this theory! I hope Em'ly is strong enough to resist Steerforth
She wants to help her, I wonder will Em'ly try to help and get into trouble herself?
That seems very possible. Seems like there are dangers lurking ahead everywhere.
I think Martha’s story serves as a warning of what may happen to Em’ly if she isn’t careful. The way Martha followed Em’ly in the shadows reminded me of a ghost haunting someone, and that in turn reminded me of a haunting in another Dickens work. While Jacob Marley was little more than a figment of Scrooge’s imagination, old Ebenezer still heeded the warnings of his late partner. I can only hope the same will hold true for Em’ly before it’s too late.
She comes from the Oren family.... She is talked about in the village as dishonorable..... Emily works with the Orens and befriended her there likely.... Maybe Joren impregnated her! Ugh I would not like that. In those days, being ostracized by the village you live is likely the worst thing to imagine. Maybe we will find out later.
That's a good connection that I didn't catch. Thanks! Joren was definitely getting a little shade earlier on, so that makes sense to me.
10 - What is the deal with Miss Mowcher? Why do you think Dickens included this odd-but-entertaining scene?
she is odd. I think it shows that Steerforth has a history of consorting with a wide variety of acquaintances so him getting to know the Peggotty's is not as unusual for him as I would have thought.
Interesting! I agree, and thinking back it seems like a lot of his acquaintances (Rosa, Miss Mowcher, even Tommy Traddles back at school) seem to be those who are sort of on the edges of accepted society. He collects these people and enjoys but but doesn't respect them. Could it be a commentary on how he sees himself - uncomfortable with who he is and secretly insecure about the judgement of others - so that these types of people make it easier for him to feel like a king?
This is a great observation! I think Mr. Steerforth may be a very dark character indeed. "Enjoys but doesn't respect" - sounds like a narcissist to me.
Definitely a narcissist!
This makes a lot of sense. I thought it was telling that Steerforth found Miss Mowcher hilarious but David did not. That's one of the few times David has been at odds with Steerforth or disliked something his hero enjoyed. Both she and Rosa are capable of revealing Steerforth's unsavory side to David.
Great point! I didn't think about David's reaction compared to Steerforth's. You're right, it is so rare for him to disagree with his buddy. Get better friends, David!
That is a good point. And kind of makes it particularly notable that he is so unwilling to accept Ham.
I think we’re meant to compare the way Steerforth acts with his circle (Mowcher, his mom) with the way David acts with his in Yarmouth. Steerforth becomes even more brash and judgmental when he’s around his people. Miss Mowcher is a perfect example of someone who brings out the worst in him.
She does bring out the worst in him! Though she doesn't seem particularly bothered by it.
"If either of you saw my ankles, say so, and I’ll go home and destroy myself!" Tell me you're a Victorian woman without telling me you're a Victorian woman. 😂 But seriously, I found this whole scene very weird, especially because of the note in the Penguin Classics version that says she was based on a real person who may have threatened to sue Dickens over this character. Given that society treated people with dwarfism like freaks back then, exhibiting them in sideshows and everything, I couldn't help but feel vaguely uncomfortable about this scene, even though the character herself was likeable.
She reminds me of Mother Oldershaw in Armadale. They are both >!shady practitioners of the beautifying arts: brash, conniving, and on the edge of respectability. I think it's a bad sign that Steerforth hangs out with Mowcher, just like it was bad news for Lydia to be mixed up with Oldershaw.!<
She reminded me of the same person!!!
Oh, that's a really good comparison, and I can't unsee it now. I don't get >!evil!< vibes from Miss Mowcher, though. (Although I could certainly be wrong about that.) I don't know if Steerforth's association with her necessarily a bad reflection on her. He seems like the kind of person who'd condescendingly hire an "amusing" person to be his hairdresser.
Comparison with Demon Copperhead: >!I suspect Mouse is a composite of Mowcher and Rosa, in which case I think both of them will be bad news for David.!<
I only associated Rosa with >!Mouse!< but I like the idea of the composite and agree with the >!bad news vibes!<
The more I think about Miss Mowcher the more intrigued I get. Such a quirky, salty individual. Apparently she was a chiropodist - if she was in my town I would definitely sign up for a session.
She was really funny and creepy! I've no idea of her purpose, was she just there for some comic relief or will she come up again? Is she just there to show the type of people that Steerforth is involved with?
I like the idea that she reveals something of Steerforth's odd life choices. By the way, my edition's notes say that Miss Mowcher was based on a "practitioner" who tended Dickens' wife, and that he had to make some changes to her character in order to avoid legal action.
A practitioner? What is that?
Sorry, was working from memory there. The term in my note (from Penguin Classics) is "chiropodist" - which is basically a podiatrist. The lady in question was Mrs. Seymour Hill.
Ahhhhhhh, it all becomes clear now. Thank you!
I found her very confusing. She talks like a child?? But Steerforth says she is arguing with the pair of them when she joins the conversation? \*visible confusion\*
Whatever larger thematic story there might be (and people have interesting ideas about that), I agree with you that the details of this character are hard to make sense of. Apparently based on a real person so maybe this is just an elaborate inside joke. Didn't really work for me either. I was just wondering if people have written about her, and found this link: >!(which contains spoilers, so I stopped reading). Be warned! https://dickens.ucsc.edu/programs/dickens-to-go/haridresser-heroine.html!<
Ooh, thank you.
9 - When David comes back to Mr. Peggotty’s late one night, Steerforth is thoroughly upset with himself. Why do you think that is?
Was he love sick for Em'ly maybe?
I'm getting "love sick" or "guilty." Though guilty of what is not yet clear.
Same here! Could "guilty" have to do with Em'ly's outbursts (or her friend's troubles' or both)?
I definitely got guilty vibes, especially given how he lamented the lack of a person in his life to guide him better. Something’s up, that’s for sure.
I agree that she has to be the one that triggered this meltdown. It shows he’s not quite as sure of himself as he projects himself to be.
There's a lot more to Steerforth than young David knows, and more than narrator David is willing to clue us in on.
I think he is feeling down in life. He has no benefactors like David does. What David sees as a "restless nature and bold spirit" may actually indicate an aimlessness. Steerforth wishes he had a father to guide him.
6 - Steerforth's servant Littimer seems like a strange fellow. What role do you think he might play as the story unfolds?
I agree with u/bluebelle236 that he is up to no good! The constant descriptions of Littimer as "perfectly respectable" reminded me of Uriah's insistence on being "umble" so that can't be a good sign.
I love that comparison. Steerforth gets the same treatment. Wait, is Peggotty (who is constantly praised) going to wind up being rotten too? Somehow I think that's different.
I think there’s a distinction between looking and acting the part of someone who’s respectable, and actually performing actions that are worthy of respect. So far, all we’ve seen of Littimer is the former, whereas Peggotty has been nothing but devoted and selfless toward David and his mother, and is therefore worthy of respect.
This is a distinction that David doesn't seem to understand. He's operating out of a conventional mindset - makes me wonder how he acquired that. At school? Peggotty really is his model of integrity and he should pay more attention. Maybe he will...
I do hope David gets a little more aware and loses some naïvité. Although I should be careful what I wish for because a Dickensian dose of reality will probably come at an unpleasant cost.
It's a little odd that the Murdstones and the sadistic schoolmasters and the thief and the butcher didn't knock some skepticism about human nature into David. Maybe we're witnessing a post-traumatic response in his attitude to Steerforth. And why do I keep wanting to call the Murdstones the "Murderbots"?
>And why do I keep wanting to call the Murdstones the "Murderbots"? 🤣😂 The Murdstones in space is a funny mental picture! Thank you! I'm also surprised David has kept his innocence after all those encounters. Older narrator David doesn't seem to apologize for his younger self or give hints yet as to what might break through his naivety.
Definitely! And Peggoty would probably be modest about any compliments and tell you not to make too much fuss about her, whereas Littimer and Uriah seem to actively want to cultivate that kind of impression.
He is such a creep, I'm sure he will cause some sort of trouble!
It must suck to be Steerforth’s servant and put up with his shenanigans. I would imagine he’s had to clean up quite a few messes for him over his tenure. Part of his demeanor may come from that resentment.
Good point about his demeanor as a sort of defense mechanism for working for a creep. So does that mean he's going to be recruited to clean up an upcoming mess?
I wonder if he's actively helping Steerforth *make* a mess. Steerforth's parting words were ominous: "He knows what he has to do, and he'll do it."
Very much a Goodfellas vibe.
I think this is likely the case. Poor guy probably has seen a lot that he'd rather not see, but can't do anything about it because of his lack of status.
5 - What do you think of Steerforth’s disparaging attitude toward Ham (and others of his class)? Will that have an impact on what is to come?
He's such a snob, he was showing his true nature when he made those comments.
That is a good word for him. At times he seems to be rather carelessly covering up his less desirable traits, but certainly not in this case.
Agreed! I was actually quite surprised when Steerforth came out with that....it was very unlike his usual demeanour.
I guess it must be tiring having to keep that mask on for so long.
I suppose so. And he was at home, so maybe he is accustomed to letting it slip there?
Yup, he is SO fake. It's gross.
Me too. He does a very good job of acting respectful when he's with the Peggotys, so I was surprised when he let those comments slip in front of David. If that's what he really thinks of them, why is he spending so much time with them? Just slumming it, I guess? Yuck.
I guess he is just slumming it....
This didn't surprise me since the visit to boarding school indicated Steerforth sort of considered them the seafaring equivalent of "country bumpkins". He's just so gross, and all the more so because he uses enough charm to sort of convince you to thank him as he insults you. I think he seems pretty focused on Ham and Em'ly right now, and I'm not sure yet if this implies an outright confrontation in the future or if he'll just continue his snobby comments and try to turn David into a jerk like him. Given his own home life, I think Steerforth admires the Peggoty family dynamic but hates that feeling and twists his shame/envy into cruelty. Classic bully!
That is a thoughtful and generous analysis. Steerforth doesn't deserve you :-), but I appreciate your compassionate approach very much.
Haha just trying to keep hope alive that he won't completely ruin everyone's lives... 🤞🏻
As someone said, maybe he'll get on the Scrooge Bus. We can hope!
I find his attitude to be what I expected from him, but also he is particularly jealous of Ham.
That is so true! He just can't believe in or understand a real happy love connection.
Why didn't David say anything about that?? I was waiting for some push back against the comments, but I suppose the poor guy is so in thrall to Steerforth that he can't even think of it.
David re Steerforth is a noodle. And kind of a noodle in general.
This is sadly true.
3 - What are your thoughts about Steerforth at this point? What do you think of David’s apparently boundless trust of him? Does the nickname “Daisy” fit?
I really wish David wouldn't be so naive and see Steerforth for what he is. The nickname Daisy is so patronising and he dresses it up as a cute, affectionate nickname, but it definitely isn't.
I admit, David's naivete is beginning to annoy me. The name does fit, but I agree with you - it is a patronising one because it shows that Steerforth intends to take advantage of David.
I agree about the naivete. What I find a little more troubling is that Narrator David displays a similar naivete when presumably he knows better by now. I get that this is a good device for keeping the cliffhangers coming, but it seems a little artificial.
I thought the same thing, but then I also thought that David has been the victim of such cruelty in his life that he may just be willing to accept at face value anyone that is nice to him. He doesn't want to look under the surface and have that taken away
Completely agree with you there. I hated how David just seemed to go along with it, like he actually sees himself as beneath Steerforth. The guy can walk all over him like a doormat, and David would thank him for the honour.
I still think Steerforth was manipulative and David need to steer clear from him. David was still in denial, he saw some diturbing realization about Steerforth' commentaries and yet still tried to justify it. Daisy symbolizes purity, innocence, rebirth. I guess Steerforth picked that name because it sounded like David and it's a feminine name. But Victorians were fans of flower language iirc, so maybe there's a subtle hint to call David as gullible.
You made me curious about how daisies fit into the Victorian language of flowers! So I found this: [https://www.floraly.com.au/blogs/news/the-daisy-flower-meanings](https://www.floraly.com.au/blogs/news/the-daisy-flower-meanings) "In the Victorian Era, daisies symbolised innocence, loyalty and an ability to keep things secret. You could give someone a posy of daisies, and in the language of flowers ([floriography](https://www.floraly.com.au/blogs/news/floriography-the-meaning-of-flowers)), this could be taken to mean **their secret was safe with you**." So this might be some foreshadowing.
Oh, no, what secret will David be forced to keep for Steerforth?! It better not have anything to do with the Peggoty family and that boat. Thanks for the link - very interesting!
Nice find! I wonder if Steerforth really will make David keep a secret. Whatever that would be, I don't think it would be a good thing.
He’s a slimy guy underneath all that charisma. David idolizes him so he can’t see his jabs at him like calling him Daisy. I interpret that to be like calling him a pansy.
That is an interesting flower comparison. So I had to look up "pansy" in the language of flowers, which is supposedly something like "love and affectionate thought". But I grew up with "pansy" being a slur against "unmanly" men, and I think that's probably what you mean here. And whatever the norms were in Victorian times, I also can't escape the idea that Steerforth is mocking David's innocence and weakness by giving him a flower nickname.
More nicknames! First "Trot", now "Daisy". The fact that David readily accepts both of these new names with no pushback exemplifies how much he lets other people walk over him. I think Betsey has a lot of love in her heart for David and so it doesn't bother me as much. I cannot say the same about the manipulative, classist Steerforth. Given that the book is titled "DAVID Copperfield", I wonder if there is a point where David asserts himself more and insists on being called by his real name.
Everyone wants to rename David! Even Mr. Murdstone—remember how David had to say his last name was Murdstone in order to get the dinner which had been paid for?
Oh my gosh, yes! I forgot about that renaming!
Ooh, I like that idea very much! "The story of a boy who finds his true name" - sounds like a classic folktale scenario.
I agree completely. Betsey renaming him was actually kind of sweet, since it shows she really sees him as her adoptive son. Steerforth, on the other hand, gave him a deliberately insulting nickname to mock his naivety.
The Daisy nickname is very feminine. It seems to show Steerforth thinking David is beneath him, in the same way he'd view a woman.
I think their relationship shows that David is still very immature and overly trusting. Sure, he isn't getting duped by waiters stealing his food but he is missing a lot of things that are only slightly subtler. On the one hand, it's nice to believe the best of everyone and take people at their word. But on the other hand, it makes you a pretty easy mark for being taken advantage of. I do think that Daisy is unfortunately an apt nickname given how naively David acts (and it rhymes with Davey), but it isn't a kind one, and I wince every time he willingly answers to it.
He did knock the butcher's tooth out, I will give him that. But yes, there's a lot of immaturity there, and David is highly vulnerable. The nickname really helps to emphasize that.
I don't get his sudden apparent change of heart. Is it just because he has feelings for Little Em'ly? I also don't get how David can possibly be this naive. He literally heard Steerforth dehumanize the Peggottys when Steerforth was talking to his mother and Miss Dartle. That should have been a wakeup call.
Steerforth showed David kindness during one of the lowest points in his life, so I think it's going to take a lot for him to lose David's affections. He feels this huge debt of gratitude to Steerforth and goes out of his way to believe the best about him. In examples like the one you mentioned, David is willfully blind to Steerforth's true nature and chalks comments like that up to Steerforth's frivolous and joking manner. Luckily or unluckily, Steerforth seems like the type of person to push his luck. I predict he will reveal more and more of himself to David over time and will find ways to corrupt the Yarmouth set, in part as a way to see how much David is willing to take. Eventually, David will be forced to open his eyes to Steerforth's true nature.
2 - Jack Maldon’s letters from India and Annie’s response stir up a strong reaction in David: he sees “the impending shadow of a great affliction, and a great disgrace.” What’s your prediction about this “shadow”?
Perhaps the suspicion about affair between Annie and Jack would be unraveled? Annie had been acting strangely everytime Jack was there / mentioned. I think people who were close to her also could sense something wrong.
>I think people who were close to her also could sense something wrong. I was starting to get some hints that perhaps her husband knew more than he let on. Do you think he sent Jack on purpose to India to get him out of the picture (and maybe for good, since it seems like people would get sent there to die ala Miss Betsey's Mr. Trotwood)?
>I think people who were close to her also could sense something wrong. I'm too lazy to look up the quote, but when Mr. Wickfield was arranging to send Jack to India, he said something to the doctor like "I want to be sure, you want him out of the country, right?" and the doctor acted like he didn't know what Wickfield was talking about. I don't know if the doctor was playing dumb, or if he literally didn't understand what was going on, and sending Jack away to prevent scandal was everyone else's doing.
From the start, I thought Wickfield suspected it for sure and this interaction made me think that he wasn't quite sure if the doctor also suspected it or not.
I agree, Wickfield definitely knows what's going on. I can't get a clear read on the doctor, but my impression is that he's oblivious. There have been many remarks about how easy it is for others to take advantage of him. I think Wickfield is trying to protect his friend while trying his best to preserve Annie's reputation. Looks like his plans are in danger of being foiled, though.
The doctor is much harder to read, I agree! I'm interested to see what will come of all this. I like the interpretation that Wickfield was protecting Annie's reputation and his friend's feelings - much more generous and "chivalrous" than someone just trying to dispose of a suitor!
The way Wickfield was watching Annie was a little disconcerting. He seemed very nervous about Annie and Agnes having positive interactions and almost seemed to want to stop it. Maybe he doesn't trust Annie because there is some suspicion she isn't being faithful, and doesn't want Agnes around her. Even David thought it was an "ill-sorted friendship."
Will a relationship between Annie and Jack be revealed?
It seems quite possible! I wonder what the common practice was if a woman was caught in infidelity? (We all know there'd be no consequences for a husband...)
I can't imagine that this part of the plot would go unresolved.
This whole scenario confused me. Why are they all suspicious of Annie??
To me the telling detail was the red ribbon that she gave to Jack as he was leaving. I'm not saying others (beside) David noticed that, but there have probably been other indications. Certainly her reaction to Jack's letter to her (read hilariously by her mother) would be suspicious. However, I do agree with you that this triangle situation has been pretty murky from the beginning and is still pretty murky.
Yes, the murk!!! I'm all at sea.
They know she has feelings for Jack. They're worried she'll do something drastic like run away with him or cheat on her husband if Jack returns.
That poor woman! Being suspected for something that may never happen.
1 - David has a rare period of happiness at school in Canterbury, except for his mild if fruitless flirtations with Miss Shepherd and Miss Larkins. Were you surprised by this relatively undramatic phase of an otherwise pretty dramatic story?
Yes, I was surprised at how smoothly his school years went and we just skipped forward.
Except with that fight with the butcher lol. I wonder where David learnt to box.
Ah yes, the butcher. I was going to include a discussion question about the butcher's missing tooth. Pretty amusing but not quite in character for David.
Yeah that was so weird to me, I was like we're just covering six years in a chapter??? wtf dickens lol
Actually I was quite surprised. I was ready for the drama between Annie, her cousin, and her husband but perhaps it's for the future. At least we as reader could take a breather. I could see some troubles brewing though.
Agreed, I was glad to take a break for hardship for a little while! Especially since there are so many pages left to go, so we know more hardships are likely right around the corner!
Yes! It surprised me to see the lengthy (for Dickens) section of DC's life go past in relative tranquility. I kept expecting the other shoe to drop in several circumstances - would the fighting get him kicked out of school or would Steerforth be rude and cruel to the Peggoty clan? - but it was refreshing to see David (I can't bring myself to call him Trot) experience stability! But never fear, I do think towards the end of this section we got some hints that a storm or two is brewing...
It felt a bit to me like Dickens saying "OK, I have to get David old enough so he can drink and have a career and do other grown-up things - no need to linger over this period." But also giving us poor readers a break after so many twists and turns (and apparently more ahead).
That seems likely! Adult drama to come!
>!Oh yes indeed (just read chapter 24)!<
>(I can't bring myself to call him Trot) WTF is up with this? If this book had any other title, I'd be like "okay, he's Trotwood now, no big deal," but this book is literally called *David Copperfield.* Is he going to get disowned at some point? Did Dickens start publishing it before he realized that he was going to change the character's name? Is Trotwood just a nickname, not his new legal name? (Did they even have legal name changes back then?)
I always assumed it was a nickname, but then Betsey said she had adopted him, so maybe he did change his legal name??
I have no idea! I'm hoping for *nickname* because a) I don't want Miss Betsey to disown him and b) Trotwood is a terrible first name!
I was, but it was nice for him to be able to relax, and grow up normally, and engage in flirtations (which were hilarious - poor David, but that is exactly what a boy would do, lol)
Surprised, but happy. I said back in the first discussion that I worried this book would be unrelenting misery porn. I'm glad it didn't go in that direction. David's life has good parts and bad parts, and the bad parts can be taken more seriously due to their not being some sort of over-the-top attempt at making this story as dark as possible.
I do find this book much easier to keep reading now that we’re past the child abuse chapters.
Completely agree, those were really rough. We know more bad stuff is bound to happen to David and it will suck, but at least he'll have more of a fighting chance to get himself out of trouble than he did as a helpless child.
14 - Apply the Goldilocks Test to the mysterious characters in this section: Too many? Not enough? Just right? Which of these characters is most intriguing to you at this point?
I think this section had too many. I couldn't keep up who's who. I'm intrigued with the man who followed Aunt Betsey. It seemed like he already following her for a long time and she knew about him too. Wonder what he's doing with Aunt Betsey. I hope nothing bad will happen to her!
Agreed! Especially when they went to see the doctor. Half the characters seemed to randomly appear halfway through.
seriously i was like "who are all these people???"
I'm so glad it wasn't just me 😮💨
Great question! I would say too much, except I think it just feels that way because the dam is about to burst. We were building up a lot of pressure plot-wise during this peaceful time in David's life so the mysterious people are all in a bundle of suspense right now but will probably thin out as David enters the next phase of his life. Unless Dickens just continues to add more as we go... And then, too many for sure!
8 - Any speculations as to what’s in Barkis’ box?
Hopefully a lot of money so Peggoty will be a well supported widow one day! I do think (hope?) Barkis has a heart of gold under his traditional and stingy surface. If anyone other than Davy deserves a happy ending, it's Peggoty!
I'm imagining dragon's hoard-level of riches: piles of gold coins, gemstones the size of chicken eggs, diamond-encrusted crowns, enchanted swords, the Holy Grail...
Peggoty deserves to finish her days as a queen. Yes!
Yessss I want this too!!! I also think Barkis has a good heart and truly loves Peggoty. I would love if he's saving all that money so she'll have it when he's gone!
Don't we know it's his stashed buillon cubes?
I guess my question is, "how many?" I am imagining a huge haul that will change David/Trotwood/Daisy's life.
4 - Why so much attention to Rosa Dartle’s very expressive scar?
The cause of the scar was so shocking and it's a reminder of what Steerforth can be like underneath his charming exterior.
That's a great way of putting it! It seems like that glowing scar is exactly a revelation of what's under the surface of Steerforth and his world.
It's another example of Steerforths true personality, what his actions caused, violent and dangerous undertones.
The fact that he was so casual about that episode was pretty chilling.
His attitude about causing the scar was probably the most shocking part of the whole thing! Ice cold!
Right, I can't believe he'd tell David about it so calmly! He's so concerned with being liked, but this seemed counter to that impulse.
True! Maybe he thought his story was funnier or more macho than cruel because he is the worst? 🤷🏻♀️
Yes, I agree. I really don't like that guy, he is dangerous. Who throws a hammer at someone??
The scar seems to symbolize Steerforth's underlying menace, as others pointed out. I'll just add that I found it symbolic that when Rosa blanches, the scar is the first thing to go white, like a warning sign - Davy should see this scar as a flashing "Caution" light and *steer clear of Steerforth*. (Sorry, had to.)
I like that! It is a potent image. And that portrait looking down at David as he falls asleep. Almost a Steven King quality (reading Pet Sematary right now, so I'm feelin' it).
Yes! A King-Dickens connection is very fun!
She is a woman, and this is a disfigurement. Women can't have disfigurements, dontcha know??
I am so glad you brought up the gender aspect. MIss Mowcher is another interesting example of a character who is outside gender norms, and she and Rosa seem quite parallel. We also have a couple of characters (probably Annie, certainly Martha Endell) who are morally scarred and similarly marginalized.
I never made that connection between the two characters! That's so interesting, and I agree.
I'm probably overthinking this, but how does a hammer cause a scar like that? If she were missing some teeth, it would make more sense. I don't see why Steerforth would lie about it, though.
I pictured the hammer hitting her face with the claw side, that's the only way I can imagine a scar coming from it. And yeah I did just google "parts of a hammer" because I couldn't figure out how to describe it lol
13 - Will David find happiness working as a proctor in the Doctor’s Commons?
No, I don't think he will, he is being pushed into it as it's convenient. He needs to explore his talents.
I agree, and since I assume we can't be done with Agnes and her father (or Uriah *shudder*) maybe they'll help him find a more fulfilling path. (He mentioned he'd be there often in the future but never live there full time.)
I’m with you here. It’s not like he sought out this career for himself. He was given some time to soul search, came up short, and was told what field he’s going into. I think this will be a short-lived part of his journey.
It sounds so boring to me, but he doesn't seem to be passionate about any profession yet.
I was surprised that he just accepted that as his path. Really he is a pretty passive fellow.
he's also still super young so I feel like he's like "sure this'll do for now, why not!" He's had such a shit life that he'll take all the help he can get
He very nearly missed out on an education and genteel career entirely, so he may be in a mindset to just take what he can get. He hasn't had to make too many of his own choices yet and I sense he hasn't quite learned the knack.
Good point. That trip through the country to Aunt Betsey’s must have been very traumatic. Not to mention the Murdstones.
The story seems to be having a positive trajectory right now! I'm hopeful. I don't see this job as being part of any downfall.
7 - Why did Steerforth purchase a boat for Mr. Peggotty and rename it “Little Em’ly”?
Somehow I feel something sinister is going on. It's like he hinted to Mr Peggoty / David that he could buy Em'ly. Or maybe in following chapters Steerforth could take away the boat anytime he likes and saying "I'm taking 'Little Em'ly' with me" as a cruel joke.
"Cruel joke" does seem like Steerforth's idea of a good time.
This is a great interpretation! I can definitely see Steerforth hatching this type of plan. I do think it shows he'd like to possess Em'ly. Whether his motive is love/attraction or to dominate Ham (or both) is up in the air in my opinion.
I have such bad feels about this! I suspect Steerforth will be part of Em'ly's downfall that was foreshadowered earlier. My guess is that he is jealous of Ham, and wants to prove he is the "better" man and sees it as a challenge to win Little Em'ly away. But I don't think he will actually want to be with her when he "wins" her.
I am with you on that. I fear that boat is going down, somehow, and Steerforth will be behind it.
He's secretly (well actually, not so secret, I mean who names a boat after someone he isn't in love with..) in love with her, how inappropriate, Ham must be raging!
the tragic part is, Ham probably either doesn't realize or isn't raging even if he knows. He's so nice 😭
Definitely awkward. At the very least it seems to show that Steerforth is arrogant or insensitive or both.
just to show how much money he has
There's definitely a class thing going on - agreed this is part of it.