Sometimes academics are too close up against their field of studies to be able to explain or impart their knowledge upon others. I get what she’s saying here and have found that to be true about some academics.
It certainly feels like a safe assertion for most of the people she is interacting with in that moment who are too focused on being experts on one area of study and lose their natural curiosity for the world. As a general statement, though, it's kinda broad.
Your point about lack of curiosity is spot on, and I also think she's chafing against their rigidity. Specifically Blaine's, when he does things like trying to make her blog more "academic" and also assuming that she will join his protest. He just assumes that Ifemelu will change for him, while he can stay the same.
I dislike Ifemelu, so my answer is being seen through that lens. But she's incredibly judgmental and turning academics into a monolith. Are some academics not intellectual? Probably. She's certainly around a group of academics, but it feels like they're all playing a part too when they're doing their dinner parties. It's like they're all trying to one up each other, which leads to them not coming across as intellectuals.
She's extremely judgemental, I agree. Everyone is too intellectual or not intellectual enough. Same with being politically involved. I don't get what she wants, and I think neither does she.
And like with other judgements, she has a specific experience and generalizes about it. Sure, Blaine's group can be annoying and I enjoy her descriptions of them. But East Coast humanities academics are not every academic on the planet.
That relationship ended when Ifemelu didn’t go to the protest and lied about why. They had some fundamental incompatibilities before that, but that day brought them all to a head. They’re just dragging it on out of comfort of the familiar.
I agree with you, they had some incompatibilities before and on the day of the protest it all just came to a head.
I thought about the lying. Ifemelu said it was not a big deal, while Blaine was quite shocked. I wondered with whom I agree more. I think I'd go with Blaine. I mean, we have all been invited to things we didn't feel like going and invented excuses, but for me that applies more if the one inviting was someone like an acquaintance or a co-worker, with my partner I could just discuss it and tell him that I don't feel like going.
Though in Blaine's and Ifemelu's case, Blaine contributed to the conflict by not even asking Ifemelu if she wanted to attend, he just expected it.
I think the problem is that Blaine probably wouldn't have understood or respected Ifemelu's decision not to attend the protest. He would have taken it personally and used it to attack Ifemelu's character. It wasn't wrong for her to lie, but on the other hand, I can understand her motivation.
Not to be that 'guy', but not only were they not a great match, but I don't think either would be great to date. Blaine is highly fastidious and high-maintenance, and trying to meet his expectations seems exhausting. Conversely, Ifemelu is quite unreliable, untruthful, distant and immature sometimes. I hope her and Obinze can make something work because every other relationship she has been in has brought out the worst in both her and her partner. Not to be too cruel about it, but I guess I probably see too much of myself in Ifemelu too.
No. It felt like Ifemelu was disappearing around Blaine, that her opinions and writing were slowly being molded into his views. Add in that Blaine's sister was awful to her (I thought Ifemelu was judgmental, but the sister takes the cake) and Ifemelu lying to Blaine . . . they're just better off separate.
I see what Shan is saying, but I also think that it’s a bit dismissive. It reminded me of Malinda Lo’s “Race, Sexuality, and the Mainstream,” in which she discusses how >!books about white people sell more and are therefore more marketable.!< I can see how Shan thinks that books about race need to be tampered down in order to get mainstream success. But dismissing all literature about race as being inauthentic seems more like it comes from her own frustrations with the publishing industry than a robust literary critique.
Yeah, I think Shan has taken what would be a legitimate grievance to bolster the bitterness of her lack of success. There might be a little tongue-in-cheek to this comment as well, considering Chimamanda was already a popular author before this book came out whose work has always dealt with the ideas of race in an honest, meaningful way.
#
I'm still active in politics today, 7 years out of university. It's reasonably accurate. It's a lot of phone calling and tepid answers, essentially becoming a professional a-frame and marquee erecter. Leafletting in the hot sun and freezing rain for no pay but the hope it might change something (anything) for the better. Organising rallies, pickets, and sit-ins where practically only you and the other two organisers show up one day or 200,000 people a few months later. A lot of despondence leads to elation, then back down to mundanity. Especially on the left, in times of relative inaction, it does feel like screaming into the banal, indifferent void. But it's easier to sleep at night knowing you tried to make a difference than passively watching the world go to hell in a handbasket.
It's the cliché, and the people I met when I was younger fit it! Especially compared to Europeans who tend to be more cynical, less enthusiastic. Sadly, when I talk to Americans nowadays, this feeling has been disappearing.
What do you think of Ifemelu's complaint that Aunty Uju told her she had depression and that Americans like to turn everything into illnesses that can be solved with medicine? Especially given Ifemelu's first winter in the US and Aunty Uju's explanation of clinical depression and suicide among teenagers?
Hopefully, if Diki's attempt has any redeeming aspect, I hope it will give Ifemelu more perspective on that idea. You could chalk it up to stubbornness on her part, but it may also be not just a cultural but a sociopolitical thing. When you're from a country where most people are often too worried about how to stay afloat and feed their family, well, you don't have the privilege of looking a whole lot into improving your mental health. It feels as if there are more pressing concerns for those in it.
I feel like there are two possible explanations about Ifemelu's dismissiveness. First, at this time she had already decided to go back to Nigeria. So maybe her mind is going back to the way of thinking of her upbringing, to prepare itself to this big change? She is also sick of the US at that point, so she tends to have a negative prejudice about "American" ideas.
Then, there is her own bout with depression that you mentioned. I feel like she's still in denial about that. She covered it with good experiences, but did not deal with it. Especially the trauma related to sex work and the guilt about ghosting Obinze. So it's easier to attribute all of this to a funny western fad, like her trying to speak with an American accent for a while.
So, I kind of understand where Ifemelu is coming from, because I think there’s some conflation happening. To me, what Ifemelu dealt with her first winter and after Dike’s suicide attempt was situational depression, triggered by those specific events and other stressful events at the time. But she didn’t necessarily have clinical depression, which can seem to have no cause.
I think people are generally more understanding about situational depression, with the underlying assumption that the person will eventually recover. But I also think that, in 2008, there wasn’t a lot of widespread knowledge about the differences between the two, so people would conflate the two and react to the topic based on that. So in Ifemelu’s mind, being depressed is a natural reaction to something traumatic, but it’s not really something that rises to the level of being its own disorder, and not something that warrants treatment beyond time and patience.
I also think we have to take into consideration how prescription medication is positioned in the US and how it appears to people from other countries. Like, TV commercials for a specific medication are common here, even more so in 2008 when streaming hadn’t really become a thing yet. You’d see ads about medications in magazines. The US prescribes more drugs than any other country, and the opioid epidemic wasn’t declared as such until 2011 - the over-prescription of opioids was still ongoing in 2008. All of this has to be super jarring to people from other countries. I understand why Ifemelu would view depression as another example of Americans trying to turn a problem into a disease that you can take a pill for.
Your thoughts are very interesting, I had not considered the difference between their depressions and how they are seen differently. It also explains why Ifemelu was desperately looking for a trigger for Dike's attempt.
About the meds in the US, I agree. I'm in Europe and find the marketing very disturbing. This doesn't make me belittle mental health issues, but in 2008? I still had a lot to learn!
Yeah - I wonder if, in 2024, Ifemelu would have a more nuanced take on her and Dike’s experiences with depression with all of the research and work to raise awareness that’s happened since 2008.
Yes: I moved away from my hometown for college and just moved back at the age of 31. I didn't experience as much culture shock as Ifemelu, but it definitely felt surreal. Her uncertainty about what had changed and what had always been that way really resonated with me.
The only new place we encountered in this section is Miami: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/b1t4xU8nahUYQaJq7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/b1t4xU8nahUYQaJq7)
I did a bit of digging, and turns out Ifemelu's threat about sending the worker to Alagbon Close is actually a reference to a Fela Kuti album about police brutality: [https://felakuti.bandcamp.com/album/alagbon-close-1974-75](https://felakuti.bandcamp.com/album/alagbon-close-1974-75)
I was glad to see Ifemelu involved in something, at last, with the Obama campaign. It's the only time in her whole American stay when I felt like she was true to herself, and just living?
But it's so bittersweet to read about this hope nowadays...
Do you agree with Ifemelu's assertion that academics are not intellectuals?
Sometimes academics are too close up against their field of studies to be able to explain or impart their knowledge upon others. I get what she’s saying here and have found that to be true about some academics.
It certainly feels like a safe assertion for most of the people she is interacting with in that moment who are too focused on being experts on one area of study and lose their natural curiosity for the world. As a general statement, though, it's kinda broad.
Your point about lack of curiosity is spot on, and I also think she's chafing against their rigidity. Specifically Blaine's, when he does things like trying to make her blog more "academic" and also assuming that she will join his protest. He just assumes that Ifemelu will change for him, while he can stay the same.
I dislike Ifemelu, so my answer is being seen through that lens. But she's incredibly judgmental and turning academics into a monolith. Are some academics not intellectual? Probably. She's certainly around a group of academics, but it feels like they're all playing a part too when they're doing their dinner parties. It's like they're all trying to one up each other, which leads to them not coming across as intellectuals.
She's extremely judgemental, I agree. Everyone is too intellectual or not intellectual enough. Same with being politically involved. I don't get what she wants, and I think neither does she. And like with other judgements, she has a specific experience and generalizes about it. Sure, Blaine's group can be annoying and I enjoy her descriptions of them. But East Coast humanities academics are not every academic on the planet.
What is the worst nickname you've ever heard of and how does it compare to Pee?
Hahaha. I have a friend named Filip. We call him 'Fallopian Tubes" if that's a contender.
That’s actually awesome lol
My cat's name is Sahsa but I call her Stinko sometimes.
I call my cat Chunky Butt when he sprawls out
Do you think Ifemelu and Blaine should have gotten back together?
That relationship ended when Ifemelu didn’t go to the protest and lied about why. They had some fundamental incompatibilities before that, but that day brought them all to a head. They’re just dragging it on out of comfort of the familiar.
I agree with you, they had some incompatibilities before and on the day of the protest it all just came to a head. I thought about the lying. Ifemelu said it was not a big deal, while Blaine was quite shocked. I wondered with whom I agree more. I think I'd go with Blaine. I mean, we have all been invited to things we didn't feel like going and invented excuses, but for me that applies more if the one inviting was someone like an acquaintance or a co-worker, with my partner I could just discuss it and tell him that I don't feel like going. Though in Blaine's and Ifemelu's case, Blaine contributed to the conflict by not even asking Ifemelu if she wanted to attend, he just expected it.
I think the problem is that Blaine probably wouldn't have understood or respected Ifemelu's decision not to attend the protest. He would have taken it personally and used it to attack Ifemelu's character. It wasn't wrong for her to lie, but on the other hand, I can understand her motivation.
That is a very good point, he definitely had a part in their conflict.
Blaine liked the idea of Ifemelu more than he liked her for who she is. They should stay split.
Agree, and I think the opposite is true: Ifemelu liked the idea of Blaine but the reality of him was a bit too much to deal with.
Not to be that 'guy', but not only were they not a great match, but I don't think either would be great to date. Blaine is highly fastidious and high-maintenance, and trying to meet his expectations seems exhausting. Conversely, Ifemelu is quite unreliable, untruthful, distant and immature sometimes. I hope her and Obinze can make something work because every other relationship she has been in has brought out the worst in both her and her partner. Not to be too cruel about it, but I guess I probably see too much of myself in Ifemelu too.
No. It felt like Ifemelu was disappearing around Blaine, that her opinions and writing were slowly being molded into his views. Add in that Blaine's sister was awful to her (I thought Ifemelu was judgmental, but the sister takes the cake) and Ifemelu lying to Blaine . . . they're just better off separate.
Do you agree with Shan's assertion that Black American authors who write literary fiction aren't allowed to tackle race in any honest, meaningful way?
Hopefully we can all agree there were definitely more than 3 in 2007 🙄
I see what Shan is saying, but I also think that it’s a bit dismissive. It reminded me of Malinda Lo’s “Race, Sexuality, and the Mainstream,” in which she discusses how >!books about white people sell more and are therefore more marketable.!< I can see how Shan thinks that books about race need to be tampered down in order to get mainstream success. But dismissing all literature about race as being inauthentic seems more like it comes from her own frustrations with the publishing industry than a robust literary critique.
Yeah, I think Shan has taken what would be a legitimate grievance to bolster the bitterness of her lack of success. There might be a little tongue-in-cheek to this comment as well, considering Chimamanda was already a popular author before this book came out whose work has always dealt with the ideas of race in an honest, meaningful way. #
Have you ever participated in a political campaign or community organizing? How does your experience compare to Ifemelu's?
I'm still active in politics today, 7 years out of university. It's reasonably accurate. It's a lot of phone calling and tepid answers, essentially becoming a professional a-frame and marquee erecter. Leafletting in the hot sun and freezing rain for no pay but the hope it might change something (anything) for the better. Organising rallies, pickets, and sit-ins where practically only you and the other two organisers show up one day or 200,000 people a few months later. A lot of despondence leads to elation, then back down to mundanity. Especially on the left, in times of relative inaction, it does feel like screaming into the banal, indifferent void. But it's easier to sleep at night knowing you tried to make a difference than passively watching the world go to hell in a handbasket.
Do you agree with Obinze's observation that Americans or people who spend an extended amount of time in the US have a manic optimism?
It's the cliché, and the people I met when I was younger fit it! Especially compared to Europeans who tend to be more cynical, less enthusiastic. Sadly, when I talk to Americans nowadays, this feeling has been disappearing.
What do you think of Ifemelu's complaint that Aunty Uju told her she had depression and that Americans like to turn everything into illnesses that can be solved with medicine? Especially given Ifemelu's first winter in the US and Aunty Uju's explanation of clinical depression and suicide among teenagers?
Hopefully, if Diki's attempt has any redeeming aspect, I hope it will give Ifemelu more perspective on that idea. You could chalk it up to stubbornness on her part, but it may also be not just a cultural but a sociopolitical thing. When you're from a country where most people are often too worried about how to stay afloat and feed their family, well, you don't have the privilege of looking a whole lot into improving your mental health. It feels as if there are more pressing concerns for those in it.
I feel like there are two possible explanations about Ifemelu's dismissiveness. First, at this time she had already decided to go back to Nigeria. So maybe her mind is going back to the way of thinking of her upbringing, to prepare itself to this big change? She is also sick of the US at that point, so she tends to have a negative prejudice about "American" ideas. Then, there is her own bout with depression that you mentioned. I feel like she's still in denial about that. She covered it with good experiences, but did not deal with it. Especially the trauma related to sex work and the guilt about ghosting Obinze. So it's easier to attribute all of this to a funny western fad, like her trying to speak with an American accent for a while.
So, I kind of understand where Ifemelu is coming from, because I think there’s some conflation happening. To me, what Ifemelu dealt with her first winter and after Dike’s suicide attempt was situational depression, triggered by those specific events and other stressful events at the time. But she didn’t necessarily have clinical depression, which can seem to have no cause. I think people are generally more understanding about situational depression, with the underlying assumption that the person will eventually recover. But I also think that, in 2008, there wasn’t a lot of widespread knowledge about the differences between the two, so people would conflate the two and react to the topic based on that. So in Ifemelu’s mind, being depressed is a natural reaction to something traumatic, but it’s not really something that rises to the level of being its own disorder, and not something that warrants treatment beyond time and patience. I also think we have to take into consideration how prescription medication is positioned in the US and how it appears to people from other countries. Like, TV commercials for a specific medication are common here, even more so in 2008 when streaming hadn’t really become a thing yet. You’d see ads about medications in magazines. The US prescribes more drugs than any other country, and the opioid epidemic wasn’t declared as such until 2011 - the over-prescription of opioids was still ongoing in 2008. All of this has to be super jarring to people from other countries. I understand why Ifemelu would view depression as another example of Americans trying to turn a problem into a disease that you can take a pill for.
Your thoughts are very interesting, I had not considered the difference between their depressions and how they are seen differently. It also explains why Ifemelu was desperately looking for a trigger for Dike's attempt. About the meds in the US, I agree. I'm in Europe and find the marketing very disturbing. This doesn't make me belittle mental health issues, but in 2008? I still had a lot to learn!
Yeah - I wonder if, in 2024, Ifemelu would have a more nuanced take on her and Dike’s experiences with depression with all of the research and work to raise awareness that’s happened since 2008.
Have you ever moved back to a place years after you first left? What was it like? Was your experience similar to Ifemelu's?
Yes: I moved away from my hometown for college and just moved back at the age of 31. I didn't experience as much culture shock as Ifemelu, but it definitely felt surreal. Her uncertainty about what had changed and what had always been that way really resonated with me.
Anything else you wanted to discuss?
The only new place we encountered in this section is Miami: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/b1t4xU8nahUYQaJq7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/b1t4xU8nahUYQaJq7) I did a bit of digging, and turns out Ifemelu's threat about sending the worker to Alagbon Close is actually a reference to a Fela Kuti album about police brutality: [https://felakuti.bandcamp.com/album/alagbon-close-1974-75](https://felakuti.bandcamp.com/album/alagbon-close-1974-75)
I was glad to see Ifemelu involved in something, at last, with the Obama campaign. It's the only time in her whole American stay when I felt like she was true to herself, and just living? But it's so bittersweet to read about this hope nowadays...