According to Snyder's logic, Jupiter's Legacy is more watched than his highest grossing movie, he put Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman in a movie together for the first time and lost to a Netflix flop.
He put Batman, Superman, and WW in a movie together for the first time and failed to gross 1 billion while losing to the Avengers who historically were B-list characters at best...
MoS wasn't perfect but I get it, and although Nolan is great, it doesn't mean he's infallible either. I get why Snyder was chosen to bring that project to life and I think he mostly succeeds from where his job was. MoS has big issues that have to do with its script and structure, mainly with Pa Kent and the final battle, which is more where Snyder shows his weakness. BvS is where he totally own a lot of the issues with the film though, absolutely.
Zack Snyder is for sure an idiot but they struck the wrong tone right out of the gate trying to strike the same "gritty realism" tone for Man of Steel that Nolan used for his Batman trilogy. That approach just continued to warp and expand like a cancer and ultimately seeped into the entire franchise. People forget that WB initially wanted Nolan to do Man of Steel straight after TDK concluded.
> but they struck the wrong tone right out of the gate trying to strike the same "gritty realism" tone for Man of Steel
You mean the only Superman movie that hasn't been a flop in over 30 years
Not to exaggerate but Justice League is easily a potentially 2 billion dollar film, I don't think it's unrealistic that, under optimal circumstances, it could play like NWH. The fact that Aquaman made a bill, Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad approached it with polar opposite reception, and BvS had a strong start is almost astounding.
> League is easily a potentially 2 billion dollar film, I don't think it's unrealistic that, under optimal circumstances, it could play like NWH
Even The Amazing Spiderman was a better box office run than the Wonder Woman duology
Batman v Superman was suppose to be released the same weekend as captain America 3 but got put on a different date as soon as they realized it was gonna be a civil war adaptation.
Movies often will play chicken with a release date, but very rarely do two major studio pictures with overlapping audiences follow through and compete for an OW #1.
I don't think there's any reality where DC & Marvel (at least at the peak of their cultural influence) each release a blockbuster superhero movie on the same weekend.
Obviously not but it's still shocking that it was WB who caved, and while not quite totally the same, Thor 3 and Justice League released within 2 weeks of each other and the consensus was that they would both suffer for it. Lo and behold...well one definitely suffered and the other was a franchise high.
The Avengers pretty much overtook the Justice League in the early 2000s, at least in terms of comics. The Ultimate imprint and the string of event comics starting with Avengers Disassembled catapulted Marvel forward. Comic sales even prior to Iron Man (2008) were pretty heavily skewed towards Marvel, Civil War was a huge event.
I'd even say by the 90s they were neck and neck, though X-Men outsold both by a magnitude.
The DC Animated shows of the late 90/early 2000s were really popular but I'm not convinced they would've gone unchallenged if not for Marvel going through bankruptcy in the late 90s.
Both the Spider-Man and X-Men animated series were pretty popular. They wanted to do an Avengers series as well but bankruptcy and licensing issues (for Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor in particular) made things difficult which resulted in the middling Avengers: United They Stand.
I feel like if their original plan of an Avengers cartoon with the X-Men Animated Series creatives worked out, the early 2000s would've been pretty different in terms of superhero media. Sony might've ended up buying Marvel.
The MCU has mishandled him so badly that he isn't anymore.
EDIT: I'm downvoted for saying Hulk has lost popularity since the MCU? Seriously? Dude used to have merch comparable to Spiderman before, now he is just seen as "the green guy in the Avengers"
Before Avengers both Hulk solo movies couldn’t pass $140M domestic, I think now they’re just so many more characters to like instead of it just being hulk, spider man and X-men like before (for live action I mean)
Was Jupiters legacy a flop? It got good numbers. I thought it was more to do with executive handover, and the new team not seeing eye to eye with the showrunner. Although I also heard it had a $200m budget, which seems insane based on the finished product.
Yes, it had a sharp drop off in new viewers. However it had solid viewer retention and I believe it’s minutes viewed beat season 1 or “the boys”. Longer term I believe it did decent numbers.
Netflix very unusually officially cancelled it before the 28 days post release mark they traditionally use to calculate viewership.
It was likely always on the block because it was so expensive. Decent viewership isn't enough, it needed to be a huge hit.
I think something stinks about the story. The production was known to have been hampered by a small budget. DeKnight left mid production, supposedly because he was going over budget. It was reported around the time it was cancelled that the budget ended up being $200 million (which is more than D+ spend) when it’s original budget was $72 million.
Something doesn’t smell right there.
This all goes down when the executive change happens at Netflix, with reports about them not liking the project and it getting canned early.
The sad thing is Netflix are currently sitting on mark millers millerverse titles…
I’m never one to defend Snyder but that actually was his initial point when he made this comment (several months ago, before RM Part 2 came out)— even the terrible streaming flop gets more views than massive theatrical-release blockbusters.
Hmm, that's a good point, if you [look at the actual quote](https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/zack-snyder-more-people-watched-rebel-moon-than-barbie-1234961537/) he's saying that the Netflix distribution model is crazy because all of these movies and shows are already in people's homes, so they get tons of views:
> They assume two viewers per screen, right? That’s the math…so that’s 160 million people supposedly watching. One-hundred and sixty million people at $10 a ticket, that’s $1.6 billion. So more people probably saw ‘Rebel Moon’ than saw ‘Barbie’ in the theater. That’s how crazy Netflix is — that’s the distribution model that they’ve set up. I was at this thing the other day and we were talking about ‘Rebel Moon 2.’ And they were like, ‘Well, talk about “Rebel Moon” the first one.’ I’m like, ‘No, go fucking watch it. I know you have it at your house.’ It’s not like a theater situation. You could turn it on your phone right now and watch it right here if you wanted. That’s how crazy it is. This model, this machine, they’ve built is really something else. It’s really crazy if you think about it...It’s a different model… you give the audience an alternative. **Like what is ‘Rebel Moon’…that’s new IP, right? No one knows what the fuck that is. Some space thing, I guess. Well, let’s watch it. The barrier for entry is so low that it allows a lot more original and weirdo stuff to exist.**
That seems pretty reasonable? He's saying no one knows anything about Rebel Moon but a bunch of people will watch it thinking, "Eh, what the hell, I already have it here, might as well check it out," and that's because of Netflix's distribution model. People seem to have really twisted the quote into him trying to say something he didn't.
For the record, [Snyder said Barbie was great](https://variety.com/2023/film/news/zack-snyder-barbie-joke-funny-insane-1235821196/) and that he thought the joke about the Snyder Cut was funny.
If you count just the theatrical views maybe (and that's doubtful flop vs super hit) but movies have more people that view them than that. People that watch on streaming will watch the theatrical movies when they come too, they don't just watch the shitty streaming originals.
But it does ignore that a Netflix streaming project is already at the end of its viewing cycle.
Barbie's theatrical release is only the start. There's audience to be counted in PVOD, home release, SVOD, network TV and cable TV. With Rebel Moon that's it, and if it isn't a hit it'll disappear deep in Netflix's library never to be thought of again.
I get that and his point was definitely misconstrued to be more like a brag, but honestly, not sure it's totally accurate or true. Like, its an assumption on top of an assumption, and with that, it's a method which predicates on "views" which we struggle a little bit to define (is it half? 5 seconds? to completion? etc).
He made a movie where Batman goes against Superman.
Who the hell wants to see that lol.
That's like getting the top 2 sports stars on your team and in the first game, you get them to fight lol.
Besides that basically being a demigod that can shoot lasers from his eyes fighting a fit techbro.
> Who the hell wants to see that lol.
You mean one of the most iconic and well known "Who would win?" debates of all time?
The fight that is the climax of one of the most influential Batman comics of all time (or comics in general)?
A trilogy and a slightly better director’s cut of that trilogy so his cult fans can insist how he’s a genius failed by modern film industry and cApiTalism
They're not out yet. Will be this summer I believe. Personally I've been waiting for those versions. I'm sure they won't really be much better but I'd rather watch the films he actually wanted to make.
There is time travel and its likely there is a Star Wars Legends esque situation where Earth exists and its like ours but the story happens in space while Earth is simply another planet outside of the main galaxy.
WHAT?? How could they cancel that? What am i going to watch when im wearing my rebel moon (tm) pajamas and eat my army of the dead (tm) brain drain (tm) cereal?
And I think there are hopes for spinoff shows, animated shows, games, comics, etc. This is Netflix after all, always looking for the next mass-marketable IP.
I don't see how that would ever work; the most marketable IPs became that way through fan interest. You can't just make plans around a fanbase that doesn't exist yet.
God I hope not...
The first one was a tragedy of film making. Literally couldn't get much worse.
The second one was even worse than the first...
I can't imagine how bad a third one would be.
With how much slow mo was upped in the second movie, at this point he's gonna have to slow mo the WHOLE movie.
I feel like his career took a major dive but it wasn't any scandal or allegation....no, he just sucks so badly in his solo projects (where he is writer+director) he made himself look like a sad irrelevant name.
[The actual quote is even funnier](https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-make-movies-for-teenage-boys-oh-dear-what-a-crime-michael-bay-69-73-18.jpg). I think he said it when critics were raking him over the coals for the transformer movies
His math isn't the problem. The problem is the numbers Netflix are saying. I simply cannot believe Rebel Moon was watched for 44.2 million hours in a week. Even assuming Netlix's 2 viewer per average is bullshit and its just one person per account, that'd be enough people watching it to put it in the top 20ish opening weeks of all time.
Yes that's what he's arguing. But then Barbie is only at the start of its audience cycle while Rebel Moon, by only being on Netflix, is at its end and not likely to increase significantly.
Also, RM's viewership is pretty average. I think most people are responding to how odd it is to be patting yourself on the back so hard when you're a country mile away from the top of the charts.
Well that's 2 Snyder dollars right there. Just 198 more and you guys can get access to the Super Ulitmate Extended Extreme Director's Vision of Sucker Punch.
My wife is not into sci-fi, she doesn't know who Snyder is, she doesn't know who directed Rebel Moon. But she likes Netflix. She watched both Rebel Moon movies. Dunno why.
lol I’ve had a lot of similar family and friends like this and they told me to check it out. I’m getting curious about what’s actually attracting normies to it
Maybe. But it also had terrible audience scores. Either way, my main point is that for all the hate Snyder is getting for saying this, based on the available metrics he is not incorrect.
I don’t know anyone who’s watched that movie. I think that was the craziest part of that, is that everyone I know went to or at least heard of Barbie - but *nobody* in my extended friend groups or at work or anything has watched Rebel Moon.
I know that is anecdotal, but if somehow more people have watched that movie than watched Barbie in theaters, where the hell are they?
I don't get how he took the can't miss concept of Seven Samurai in space (which was already done surprisingly well by Roger Corman's Battle Beyond the Stars) and made whatever the hell Rebel Moon is.
It's actually laughable that he's had decades to perfect this story and all he could come up with was characters being recruited within the same scene. Just no complexity to anything going on, it's so lazy.
Yeah and for better or worse it's obvious he got to make those movies because his Army of the Dead movie and its spin-off must have done decent numbers otherwise they'd have left it at that.
That said, the drop off in marketing from Part One to Part Two was very obvious, so I think it's clear Rebel Moon Part One was a massive disappointment for Netflix.
> The two “Rebel Moon” films are projected to cost $83 million apiece just in “qualified” in-state spending, which excludes “above the line” costs like actor and director salaries.
> The streamer got $16.6 million for “Rebel Moon: Part 2,” just a year after getting $18.5 million in California tax credits to make the first “Rebel Moon,” a space epic from Zack Snyder. The two “Rebel Moon” films are projected to cost $83 million apiece just in “qualified” in-state spending, which excludes “above the line” costs like actor and director salaries.
She's the producer/exec producer for all of Zack's movies and a few other non-Zack DCEU movies.
Experienced, but not necessarily an influential behemoth figure in the industry.
I thought Snyder had taken all the energy that people who complain about people who like Christopher Nolan films had. And then the other week I saw someone complaining about people who like Nolan for the first time in years.
It should not be controversial to say Nolan's filmography is better than Snyder's, so you can see by the fact there was and may be again a similar discourse around Nolan that the conversation has fuck all to do with their films.
There are places on the internet where a prerequisite to being taken seriously is displaying your hatred of Snyder. Film Reddit is one of them. Little wonder the takes tend to be extreme.
Numbers aside, I think even Netflix will hit the breaks if all (supposedly) six of these Rebel moons keep consistent with their current quality.
Why pay an exurbanite amount of money when they can pay a fraction of the costs to some obscure drama- and still get the same reception? Netflix is all about numbers, yes- but they WANT the gems: Stranger Things, Arcane, Squid Games, etc.
Thus far, Rebel Moon is definitely not that.
Like kind of? Like I’m not delusional obviously a lot of people saw it. On the other hand the convos around it died out after like a month and I rarely hear anyone talk about it. I haven’t seen it so I don’t have a say in this, but usually if something excels I tend to hear it brought up a lot
It's unfair to call any movie that made 2.3 BILLION "under the radar" in the Box Office subreddit. It's probably just a matter of exposure. I see it mentioned often in relation to VFX methods, filming techniques, performance capture, etc. Regardless of how you feel about the story or plot, it's arguably the most visually impressive movie in years.
Don't Netflix count it as a full view if you only watched a few mins?
Probably misleading to say it had that high of viewership when a smaller percentage of that actually got as far as the credits.
Netflix doesn't count in views since a very long time, they count in hours/minutes viewed so that wouldn't really matter.
They of course know exactly the completion rate of course but that's not public (and likely not even Snyder knows it)
All he knows is cinematography. His films look visually appealing and action sequences are decent.
But he cant develop characters or a story to save his life
It would be funny if we ever knew what percentage of people just hate-watch these. I watched part 1 just to have fun with it but didn't take it seriously. I am sure to check out part 2 as well. Doesn't mean that the movie will be any good, but it will be fun to see.
This. I never expected this to be good, but I at least expected to enjoy shitting on it. It's not even good for that, it's just so flat. I stop about 30-40min mark as well.
I'll just watch Madame Web again I guess 🤷♂️
You know how a lot of action movies slow down in the late second act so you can hang out with the characters before the final battle? Think Hobbs & Shaw when they go to the family in Samoa.
The first 40 minutes of 2 Rebel 2 Moon are that, plus some more flashbacks for convoluted backstory. These characters barely have any personality, so it's tedious. The horrible cinematography compounds the problem. An emotional closeup doesn't work if their face is half out of focus and distorted.
It's those garbage lenses he had custom built for the movie. They're just straight up broken looking. Very telling that the company that made them still hasn't posted details on what they are.
You know how you hear great things about a movie and just have to see it to see if it lives up to the hype? On the opposite end, I decided to start watching Rebel Moon to see if it's really that shit lol.
I like Anthony Hopkins as the robot actually but the rest is unremarkable and vapid. That damn Snyder slo-mo too, oh man.
I tried watching Rebel Moon but nothing hooked me. I decided to pass on the part two and just wait until Snyder/NF drop the directors cuts of Rebel Moon. Complete waste of time to watch a movie even Snyder says is drastically different from his intended vision. Bar is already set pretty low so hopefully the directors cuts are worth the time.
According to Netflix*, as they said to him on average 2 people watch at the same time, so with 100 million viewers, it equals 200 million people.
I think the point he was trying to make is that the audience reach on streaming is crazy.
Many directors give wonderful Audio Commentaries.
I absolutely skip any involving Zach Snyder. He would teach me nothing. I'd sooner go to Tommy Wiseau because at least I'll be entertained.
People really take that quote to mean something other than what it meant. He's hyping up Netflix's insane reach, not Rebel Moon as something that would have outgrossed Barbie in the theater.
Is he excited about Rebel Moon being part of Netflix's domination? Sure he is. You would be too, but the continued Snyder hate train really likes to cast him as the village idiot in this one when what he said, which was about numbers, is probably right on a pure numbers level.
Yeah, mostly agreed. I saw that video. He was comparing Netflix's new method of movie to traditional cinema visits.
To be honest, I think he was guessing and guessing incorrectly, rather than revealing any info about Netflix's numbers. I'd be super surprised if more people have watched Rebel Moon than Barbie - $1.3B is a lot of tickets.
I'd never watched a Joe Rogan interview all the way through before. Zack Snyder seems like a nice guy, and the same actors work with him over and over again. Really wish it could result in better movies.
>*Zack Snyder seems like a nice guy, and the same actors work with him over and over again. Really wish it could result in better movies*
Yeah, people want him to be an idiot or an asshole because his movies are generally awful and he believes some crazy things
But he seems like a sweet nerd
Both Rebel Moon movies are getting Synder cuts.
But before anyone makes assumptions about that, know that Netflix specifically ordered those movies to have Director's cuts come later. It isn't Snyder pushing for them.
It’s hard to feel sorry for this guy and his awful body of work and his enormous salaries.
But his films are so pathetic, I do feel for him a bit. Just a bit.
Everyone I know IRL has seen Barbi. I honestly don't know anyone IRL that's seen Rebel moon. Does this guy have bots just streaming the movie over and over?
Leaving the rebel moon barbie comparison in terms of netflix viewership I totally believe more people saw society of the snow last December than either aquaman or wonka
> I got banned from dc_cinematic for saying Snyder likes the smell of his own farts.
Go there and write "James Gunn likes the smell of his own farts", they'll probably make you a mod.
Dawn of the Dead was written by James Gunn, Man of Steel was written by David Goyer and story by Christopher Nolan
There's your answer.
Snyder is not good in story telling, to put it mildly.
I love Chris Nolan but Jonathan Nolan absolutely did the heavy lifting for TDK Trilogy. Chris famously never read a Batman comic before and Goyer...is Goyer.
I thought 300 was a great movie, is he a new a Spielberg no not even close. But he’s also not as bad as people on social media say , it’s the in thing to say horrible things about anything to do with him but his movies while not the best at least you can tell he puts his heart into them and I don’t care some of them are stupid fun and 300 is legit amazing.
Really interesting how streamers can say anything about show performance because, unlike theatrical box office or Nielsen ratings, data isn’t shared. Amazon is touting Fallout as among their most watched show, generating interest, and we just have to take their word for it. The next generation of promotion.
It's theoretically true at that moment in time (and only counting Barbie's theatrical not it's PVOD/Home release). It had a okay amount of views, and you could count each view as two people watching it one time. Taking their number and multiply by the worldwide average $8 ticket price would suggest more people watched.
Of course, in reality it's not taking into account things like repeat viewing, or that it's an average of 2 people over all of Netflix and some Netflix movies would have more per view watchers - kids/family programming - meaning others must only have one watcher per view. (I suspect Snyder movies lean more towards the lower number.)
Or that a lot of people aren't actively watching it in the same way they did Barbie.
I suspect less than a quarter of part one's viewers watched part two.
Saying part one was watched more than Barbie is also total bullshit just looking at social media and talking to people irl.
It's also not really a good measure for success, if people aren't subscribing to Netflix to watch Rebel Moon then it didn't make any money.
According to Snyder's logic, Jupiter's Legacy is more watched than his highest grossing movie, he put Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman in a movie together for the first time and lost to a Netflix flop.
He put Batman, Superman, and WW in a movie together for the first time and failed to gross 1 billion while losing to the Avengers who historically were B-list characters at best...
And losing to Guardians, which were Z-list.
This just shows how badly wb fucked up, justice league could’ve easily top a billion dollars.
Yes, WB hiring him WAS f'd up.
They should've hired Brad Bird or Paul King.
Wait! Imagine if they could get that James Gunn guy!
Blame Christopher Nolan who picked him to direct Man of Steel. Blame WB for continuing with Snyder because it was scared of Marvel
MoS wasn't perfect but I get it, and although Nolan is great, it doesn't mean he's infallible either. I get why Snyder was chosen to bring that project to life and I think he mostly succeeds from where his job was. MoS has big issues that have to do with its script and structure, mainly with Pa Kent and the final battle, which is more where Snyder shows his weakness. BvS is where he totally own a lot of the issues with the film though, absolutely.
Zack Snyder is for sure an idiot but they struck the wrong tone right out of the gate trying to strike the same "gritty realism" tone for Man of Steel that Nolan used for his Batman trilogy. That approach just continued to warp and expand like a cancer and ultimately seeped into the entire franchise. People forget that WB initially wanted Nolan to do Man of Steel straight after TDK concluded.
> but they struck the wrong tone right out of the gate trying to strike the same "gritty realism" tone for Man of Steel You mean the only Superman movie that hasn't been a flop in over 30 years
What are you trying to say?
Not to exaggerate but Justice League is easily a potentially 2 billion dollar film, I don't think it's unrealistic that, under optimal circumstances, it could play like NWH. The fact that Aquaman made a bill, Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad approached it with polar opposite reception, and BvS had a strong start is almost astounding.
> League is easily a potentially 2 billion dollar film, I don't think it's unrealistic that, under optimal circumstances, it could play like NWH Even The Amazing Spiderman was a better box office run than the Wonder Woman duology
Batman v Superman was suppose to be released the same weekend as captain America 3 but got put on a different date as soon as they realized it was gonna be a civil war adaptation.
I think they bailed out because of the success of **Guardians of the Galaxy**.
Movies often will play chicken with a release date, but very rarely do two major studio pictures with overlapping audiences follow through and compete for an OW #1. I don't think there's any reality where DC & Marvel (at least at the peak of their cultural influence) each release a blockbuster superhero movie on the same weekend.
Obviously not but it's still shocking that it was WB who caved, and while not quite totally the same, Thor 3 and Justice League released within 2 weeks of each other and the consensus was that they would both suffer for it. Lo and behold...well one definitely suffered and the other was a franchise high.
The Avengers pretty much overtook the Justice League in the early 2000s, at least in terms of comics. The Ultimate imprint and the string of event comics starting with Avengers Disassembled catapulted Marvel forward. Comic sales even prior to Iron Man (2008) were pretty heavily skewed towards Marvel, Civil War was a huge event. I'd even say by the 90s they were neck and neck, though X-Men outsold both by a magnitude. The DC Animated shows of the late 90/early 2000s were really popular but I'm not convinced they would've gone unchallenged if not for Marvel going through bankruptcy in the late 90s. Both the Spider-Man and X-Men animated series were pretty popular. They wanted to do an Avengers series as well but bankruptcy and licensing issues (for Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor in particular) made things difficult which resulted in the middling Avengers: United They Stand. I feel like if their original plan of an Avengers cartoon with the X-Men Animated Series creatives worked out, the early 2000s would've been pretty different in terms of superhero media. Sony might've ended up buying Marvel.
Hulk is A List.
The MCU has mishandled him so badly that he isn't anymore. EDIT: I'm downvoted for saying Hulk has lost popularity since the MCU? Seriously? Dude used to have merch comparable to Spiderman before, now he is just seen as "the green guy in the Avengers"
Before Avengers both Hulk solo movies couldn’t pass $140M domestic, I think now they’re just so many more characters to like instead of it just being hulk, spider man and X-men like before (for live action I mean)
Kids still love Hulk, without any hard evidence this just doesn't strike me (and I assume a lot of those who you say are downvoting you) as not true.
Was Jupiters legacy a flop? It got good numbers. I thought it was more to do with executive handover, and the new team not seeing eye to eye with the showrunner. Although I also heard it had a $200m budget, which seems insane based on the finished product.
I thought the issue was that it started off with big numbers, but they dropped enormously and dropped very quickly
Just like BVS I guess
Yes, it had a sharp drop off in new viewers. However it had solid viewer retention and I believe it’s minutes viewed beat season 1 or “the boys”. Longer term I believe it did decent numbers.
I just realized y’all are talking about Jupiter’s Legacy and not Jupiter Ascending.
Netflix very unusually officially cancelled it before the 28 days post release mark they traditionally use to calculate viewership. It was likely always on the block because it was so expensive. Decent viewership isn't enough, it needed to be a huge hit.
I think something stinks about the story. The production was known to have been hampered by a small budget. DeKnight left mid production, supposedly because he was going over budget. It was reported around the time it was cancelled that the budget ended up being $200 million (which is more than D+ spend) when it’s original budget was $72 million. Something doesn’t smell right there. This all goes down when the executive change happens at Netflix, with reports about them not liking the project and it getting canned early. The sad thing is Netflix are currently sitting on mark millers millerverse titles…
I’m never one to defend Snyder but that actually was his initial point when he made this comment (several months ago, before RM Part 2 came out)— even the terrible streaming flop gets more views than massive theatrical-release blockbusters.
Hmm, that's a good point, if you [look at the actual quote](https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/zack-snyder-more-people-watched-rebel-moon-than-barbie-1234961537/) he's saying that the Netflix distribution model is crazy because all of these movies and shows are already in people's homes, so they get tons of views: > They assume two viewers per screen, right? That’s the math…so that’s 160 million people supposedly watching. One-hundred and sixty million people at $10 a ticket, that’s $1.6 billion. So more people probably saw ‘Rebel Moon’ than saw ‘Barbie’ in the theater. That’s how crazy Netflix is — that’s the distribution model that they’ve set up. I was at this thing the other day and we were talking about ‘Rebel Moon 2.’ And they were like, ‘Well, talk about “Rebel Moon” the first one.’ I’m like, ‘No, go fucking watch it. I know you have it at your house.’ It’s not like a theater situation. You could turn it on your phone right now and watch it right here if you wanted. That’s how crazy it is. This model, this machine, they’ve built is really something else. It’s really crazy if you think about it...It’s a different model… you give the audience an alternative. **Like what is ‘Rebel Moon’…that’s new IP, right? No one knows what the fuck that is. Some space thing, I guess. Well, let’s watch it. The barrier for entry is so low that it allows a lot more original and weirdo stuff to exist.** That seems pretty reasonable? He's saying no one knows anything about Rebel Moon but a bunch of people will watch it thinking, "Eh, what the hell, I already have it here, might as well check it out," and that's because of Netflix's distribution model. People seem to have really twisted the quote into him trying to say something he didn't. For the record, [Snyder said Barbie was great](https://variety.com/2023/film/news/zack-snyder-barbie-joke-funny-insane-1235821196/) and that he thought the joke about the Snyder Cut was funny.
If you count just the theatrical views maybe (and that's doubtful flop vs super hit) but movies have more people that view them than that. People that watch on streaming will watch the theatrical movies when they come too, they don't just watch the shitty streaming originals.
But it does ignore that a Netflix streaming project is already at the end of its viewing cycle. Barbie's theatrical release is only the start. There's audience to be counted in PVOD, home release, SVOD, network TV and cable TV. With Rebel Moon that's it, and if it isn't a hit it'll disappear deep in Netflix's library never to be thought of again.
I get that and his point was definitely misconstrued to be more like a brag, but honestly, not sure it's totally accurate or true. Like, its an assumption on top of an assumption, and with that, it's a method which predicates on "views" which we struggle a little bit to define (is it half? 5 seconds? to completion? etc).
He made a movie where Batman goes against Superman. Who the hell wants to see that lol. That's like getting the top 2 sports stars on your team and in the first game, you get them to fight lol. Besides that basically being a demigod that can shoot lasers from his eyes fighting a fit techbro.
yeah i never got the appeal of batman fighting superman
> Who the hell wants to see that lol. You mean one of the most iconic and well known "Who would win?" debates of all time? The fight that is the climax of one of the most influential Batman comics of all time (or comics in general)?
I heard he wants six of these movies, nothing he says surprises me at this point.
> he wants six of these movies, Coming from him that sounds like a threat...
A trilogy and a slightly better director’s cut of that trilogy so his cult fans can insist how he’s a genius failed by modern film industry and cApiTalism
There is also the R rated version of both movies that are separately released and may or may not be out already.
Full penetration. They show it. They show all of it.
Yeah, but it’s Snyder so it’s a rape scene.
I wished WB had allowed him to make his Batman got raped in prison movie. At least it would slightly be more interesting than BvS.
Oh my god that was a plot line he pitched?!
He said Batman Begins was not dark because he doesn't get raped in prison and that Watchmen was dark because that could happen there.
Nerds: Batman Begins is so dark and gritty Snyder: You kids, THIS is what is real dark and gritty. Look at Watchmen! He was 100% right.
Oh he was pitching alright
They're not out yet. Will be this summer I believe. Personally I've been waiting for those versions. I'm sure they won't really be much better but I'd rather watch the films he actually wanted to make.
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Recently, I kid you not, he said Army of the Dead and Rebel Moon take place in the same universe. Lord help us.
How is that possible?
something something heirarchy of the snyderverse
There is time travel and its likely there is a Star Wars Legends esque situation where Earth exists and its like ours but the story happens in space while Earth is simply another planet outside of the main galaxy.
"A long time ago in a galaxy far far away"? Either way, who cares, it's not like these franchises will last long enough to cross over.
The crossover was going to happen in the AotD animated show that was already cancelled by Netflix.
WHAT?? How could they cancel that? What am i going to watch when im wearing my rebel moon (tm) pajamas and eat my army of the dead (tm) brain drain (tm) cereal?
There's aliens and robots in Army of the Dead, none of this shit makes any sense.
Six movies...and a...season?
Plus a video game! You know, for kiddos!
And I think there are hopes for spinoff shows, animated shows, games, comics, etc. This is Netflix after all, always looking for the next mass-marketable IP.
I don't see how that would ever work; the most marketable IPs became that way through fan interest. You can't just make plans around a fanbase that doesn't exist yet.
Netflix cancelled the AotD animated show, though.
God I hope not... The first one was a tragedy of film making. Literally couldn't get much worse. The second one was even worse than the first... I can't imagine how bad a third one would be. With how much slow mo was upped in the second movie, at this point he's gonna have to slow mo the WHOLE movie.
Part 3 is only a 6 minute movie, but it is told at 20FPS!
Lolol 6m movie extrapolated out to 3 hour, with a 4 hour directors cut.
I feel like his career took a major dive but it wasn't any scandal or allegation....no, he just sucks so badly in his solo projects (where he is writer+director) he made himself look like a sad irrelevant name.
No controversy, just good old-fashioned disappointment.
Delusions of grandeur. Blud's not even poor man's George Lucas.
But he is Michael Bay At Home.
He's Michael Bay if Michael Bay thought he was Stanley Kubrick.
Yeah, at least Michael Bay *knows* he's Michael Bay. "I make movies for teenage boys." - Michael Bay
"I make movies for teenage boys that think they're film auteurs." - Zach Snyder
> Yeah, at least Michael Bay knows he's Michael Bay. [Relevant commercial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy8_EIcl3u4)
[The actual quote is even funnier](https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-make-movies-for-teenage-boys-oh-dear-what-a-crime-michael-bay-69-73-18.jpg). I think he said it when critics were raking him over the coals for the transformer movies
Yeah at least bat knows he’s making fun trash
And Bay movies are self aware and don't take themselves seriously.
He may have a tendency to try to make his films feel more epic than they are at times, but hey, at least they’re still fun to watch.
I reasonably enjoyed Ambulance, it did not strive to be anything it wasn't and was fun to watch on a big screen in a theater.
And sequels may have went downhill, but the first **Transformers** was a lot of fun.
He's Michael Bay if Michael Bay was trying to be Lars von Trier.
🎯
Snyder Math never ceasing to amaze me. But if he is saying that, I think Part 2 will be the last part of this abomination of a movie
His math isn't the problem. The problem is the numbers Netflix are saying. I simply cannot believe Rebel Moon was watched for 44.2 million hours in a week. Even assuming Netlix's 2 viewer per average is bullshit and its just one person per account, that'd be enough people watching it to put it in the top 20ish opening weeks of all time.
44M hours isn't that much considering it's like 2.5 hours long. That's just 17M-ish views out of Netflix's 270M subscribers.
It's 2 hours so it's 22 million. Which *would* equal more eyeball time than Barbie if accurate.
Yes that's what he's arguing. But then Barbie is only at the start of its audience cycle while Rebel Moon, by only being on Netflix, is at its end and not likely to increase significantly. Also, RM's viewership is pretty average. I think most people are responding to how odd it is to be patting yourself on the back so hard when you're a country mile away from the top of the charts.
My wife and I contributed a good 12 minutes to that watched time
My wife and I contributed a bad 20mins before had to accept it was awful.
We commend your endurance
Well that's 2 Snyder dollars right there. Just 198 more and you guys can get access to the Super Ulitmate Extended Extreme Director's Vision of Sucker Punch.
Or maybe Snyder is actually succesful in streaming despite the bad reviews? Just saying. Bad Reviewed films having a lot of audience isn't uncommon.
My wife is not into sci-fi, she doesn't know who Snyder is, she doesn't know who directed Rebel Moon. But she likes Netflix. She watched both Rebel Moon movies. Dunno why.
lol I’ve had a lot of similar family and friends like this and they told me to check it out. I’m getting curious about what’s actually attracting normies to it
I will throw on even bad tv shows while im eating or cleaning. Did she do that, or did she straight up watch them?
I went to a pharmacy to bought some things and the cashier was watching Rebel Moon 2 and had to pause it to attend me
Maybe. But it also had terrible audience scores. Either way, my main point is that for all the hate Snyder is getting for saying this, based on the available metrics he is not incorrect.
I don’t know anyone who’s watched that movie. I think that was the craziest part of that, is that everyone I know went to or at least heard of Barbie - but *nobody* in my extended friend groups or at work or anything has watched Rebel Moon. I know that is anecdotal, but if somehow more people have watched that movie than watched Barbie in theaters, where the hell are they?
I don't get how he took the can't miss concept of Seven Samurai in space (which was already done surprisingly well by Roger Corman's Battle Beyond the Stars) and made whatever the hell Rebel Moon is.
It's actually laughable that he's had decades to perfect this story and all he could come up with was characters being recruited within the same scene. Just no complexity to anything going on, it's so lazy.
Ego
"Space Wars: Rebel Moon Episode 1 Part 2 has more seconds watched than Avatar 2 has hours watched." Snyder Math to the rescue!!!
Stop giving this guy money.
Yes! I’ve been saying this for years
Dude has literally only made garbage for a decade but for some reason he keeps thinking he's cool. How he keeps getting hired is baffling to me.
He’s apparently really great to work with, always coming in on time and under budget. Those three assets can go a long way in Hollywood.
Yeah people are acting like Rebel Moon was some super expensive investment. Both parts were only 80 million
Yeah and for better or worse it's obvious he got to make those movies because his Army of the Dead movie and its spin-off must have done decent numbers otherwise they'd have left it at that. That said, the drop off in marketing from Part One to Part Two was very obvious, so I think it's clear Rebel Moon Part One was a massive disappointment for Netflix.
His contract for Rebel Moon was signed at the same time as Army of the dead. They didn't wait until after AotD reception.
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80 for each. I mean it’s not super cheep, but it’s a relatively good deal, especially since they plan on milking it with the second cuts
> The two “Rebel Moon” films are projected to cost $83 million apiece just in “qualified” in-state spending, which excludes “above the line” costs like actor and director salaries.
> The streamer got $16.6 million for “Rebel Moon: Part 2,” just a year after getting $18.5 million in California tax credits to make the first “Rebel Moon,” a space epic from Zack Snyder. The two “Rebel Moon” films are projected to cost $83 million apiece just in “qualified” in-state spending, which excludes “above the line” costs like actor and director salaries.
He should be just a journeyman director, and nothing else. And work with Larry Fong.
It’s a shame his movies suck so hard
Isn't his wife Deborah an influential hollywood producer or something? Would honestly explain a lot especially after how he trashed DC
She's the producer/exec producer for all of Zack's movies and a few other non-Zack DCEU movies. Experienced, but not necessarily an influential behemoth figure in the industry.
Rebel moon is not good but wow, the way people talk about Snyder you'd think he was the second coming of The Room's Tommy Wiseau
I thought Snyder had taken all the energy that people who complain about people who like Christopher Nolan films had. And then the other week I saw someone complaining about people who like Nolan for the first time in years. It should not be controversial to say Nolan's filmography is better than Snyder's, so you can see by the fact there was and may be again a similar discourse around Nolan that the conversation has fuck all to do with their films. There are places on the internet where a prerequisite to being taken seriously is displaying your hatred of Snyder. Film Reddit is one of them. Little wonder the takes tend to be extreme.
I truly do not understand it all
Netflix has a new film chief. Snyder won’t be getting blank checks anymore, and I can’t imagine a real studio will fund his future flops. He’s cooked.
> his future flops His movies are all in Netflix top 10. This isn't a flop in the slightest
The Netflix top 10 is about the most meaningless metric there is.
I just watched rebel moon two. It’s true garbage. I don’t get the audience for this.
May your delulu become trululu
Numbers aside, I think even Netflix will hit the breaks if all (supposedly) six of these Rebel moons keep consistent with their current quality. Why pay an exurbanite amount of money when they can pay a fraction of the costs to some obscure drama- and still get the same reception? Netflix is all about numbers, yes- but they WANT the gems: Stranger Things, Arcane, Squid Games, etc. Thus far, Rebel Moon is definitely not that.
I would be surprised if any movie last year was watched more than Barbie
Only avatar 2 I think. And only in theaters most likely. It is a glorious movie but it is made for the big screen.
Which is odd for something so under the radar
Are you saying that Avatar 2 is "under the radar"?
Like kind of? Like I’m not delusional obviously a lot of people saw it. On the other hand the convos around it died out after like a month and I rarely hear anyone talk about it. I haven’t seen it so I don’t have a say in this, but usually if something excels I tend to hear it brought up a lot
It's unfair to call any movie that made 2.3 BILLION "under the radar" in the Box Office subreddit. It's probably just a matter of exposure. I see it mentioned often in relation to VFX methods, filming techniques, performance capture, etc. Regardless of how you feel about the story or plot, it's arguably the most visually impressive movie in years.
Don't Netflix count it as a full view if you only watched a few mins? Probably misleading to say it had that high of viewership when a smaller percentage of that actually got as far as the credits.
Streaming numbers are insanely inflated. I don't know why anyone still believes them.
Netflix doesn't count in views since a very long time, they count in hours/minutes viewed so that wouldn't really matter. They of course know exactly the completion rate of course but that's not public (and likely not even Snyder knows it)
Aren’t there estimation of complete rates? I remember seeing them for First Kill which was why it got cancelled after one season.
Sometimes there are but I guess it's just leaked data or estimates. No such thing for Rebel Moon that I've seen so that doesn't tell us anything
No thats a decade or so old metric. Current “views” are just hours watched/runtime
How is he still getting projects? The guy knows nothing about making a good movie
He has a formula that seems valid but always ends up feeling hollow.
All he knows is cinematography. His films look visually appealing and action sequences are decent. But he cant develop characters or a story to save his life
He only knows cinematography when he has a cinematographer.
Exactly. Army of the Dead and Rebel Moon were done by him and they look absolutely horrid.
Yeah I was trying to remember the motivation for any of his villains and couldn't even think of any. Lot of what and no why
Not anymore. Now he only knows how to smear Vaseline on his camera and calls it art.
I don’t understand it either
It would be funny if we ever knew what percentage of people just hate-watch these. I watched part 1 just to have fun with it but didn't take it seriously. I am sure to check out part 2 as well. Doesn't mean that the movie will be any good, but it will be fun to see.
I did watch part 1 just to see if he's better making movies for Netflix. And just like Army of The Dead, the answer is still no.
Part 2 makes Part 1 look like Citizen Kane. Even as a fan of trash movies, I couldn't make it more than 40 minutes.
This. I never expected this to be good, but I at least expected to enjoy shitting on it. It's not even good for that, it's just so flat. I stop about 30-40min mark as well. I'll just watch Madame Web again I guess 🤷♂️
Oof! That bad?
You know how a lot of action movies slow down in the late second act so you can hang out with the characters before the final battle? Think Hobbs & Shaw when they go to the family in Samoa. The first 40 minutes of 2 Rebel 2 Moon are that, plus some more flashbacks for convoluted backstory. These characters barely have any personality, so it's tedious. The horrible cinematography compounds the problem. An emotional closeup doesn't work if their face is half out of focus and distorted.
And you sure that the film’s cinematography itself just plain sucks and it’s not Netflix’s video quality issue?
It's those garbage lenses he had custom built for the movie. They're just straight up broken looking. Very telling that the company that made them still hasn't posted details on what they are.
A podcast I love did a commentary track for Part one so I watched just for thst
You know how you hear great things about a movie and just have to see it to see if it lives up to the hype? On the opposite end, I decided to start watching Rebel Moon to see if it's really that shit lol. I like Anthony Hopkins as the robot actually but the rest is unremarkable and vapid. That damn Snyder slo-mo too, oh man.
I tried watching Rebel Moon but nothing hooked me. I decided to pass on the part two and just wait until Snyder/NF drop the directors cuts of Rebel Moon. Complete waste of time to watch a movie even Snyder says is drastically different from his intended vision. Bar is already set pretty low so hopefully the directors cuts are worth the time.
According to Netflix*, as they said to him on average 2 people watch at the same time, so with 100 million viewers, it equals 200 million people. I think the point he was trying to make is that the audience reach on streaming is crazy.
Nothing Snyder says surprises me anymore.
I’m so tired of his constant commenting on how much “better and smarter” he is than everybody else.
Many directors give wonderful Audio Commentaries. I absolutely skip any involving Zach Snyder. He would teach me nothing. I'd sooner go to Tommy Wiseau because at least I'll be entertained.
People really take that quote to mean something other than what it meant. He's hyping up Netflix's insane reach, not Rebel Moon as something that would have outgrossed Barbie in the theater. Is he excited about Rebel Moon being part of Netflix's domination? Sure he is. You would be too, but the continued Snyder hate train really likes to cast him as the village idiot in this one when what he said, which was about numbers, is probably right on a pure numbers level.
Yeah, mostly agreed. I saw that video. He was comparing Netflix's new method of movie to traditional cinema visits. To be honest, I think he was guessing and guessing incorrectly, rather than revealing any info about Netflix's numbers. I'd be super surprised if more people have watched Rebel Moon than Barbie - $1.3B is a lot of tickets. I'd never watched a Joe Rogan interview all the way through before. Zack Snyder seems like a nice guy, and the same actors work with him over and over again. Really wish it could result in better movies.
>*Zack Snyder seems like a nice guy, and the same actors work with him over and over again. Really wish it could result in better movies* Yeah, people want him to be an idiot or an asshole because his movies are generally awful and he believes some crazy things But he seems like a sweet nerd
For the love of god why do studios and streaming services give this man money to produce garbage,
How soon until he says it would have been better and wants to do a Snyder cut?
Both Rebel Moon movies are getting Synder cuts. But before anyone makes assumptions about that, know that Netflix specifically ordered those movies to have Director's cuts come later. It isn't Snyder pushing for them.
It’s hard to feel sorry for this guy and his awful body of work and his enormous salaries. But his films are so pathetic, I do feel for him a bit. Just a bit.
Everyone I know IRL has seen Barbi. I honestly don't know anyone IRL that's seen Rebel moon. Does this guy have bots just streaming the movie over and over?
MARTHA!
***WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?!***
Leaving the rebel moon barbie comparison in terms of netflix viewership I totally believe more people saw society of the snow last December than either aquaman or wonka
I got banned from dc_cinematic for saying Snyder likes the smell of his own farts.
> I got banned from dc_cinematic for saying Snyder likes the smell of his own farts. Go there and write "James Gunn likes the smell of his own farts", they'll probably make you a mod.
MoS was good and so was Dawn of the Dead. Everything else this guy made is utter crap.
Dawn of the Dead was written by James Gunn, Man of Steel was written by David Goyer and story by Christopher Nolan There's your answer. Snyder is not good in story telling, to put it mildly.
Man of Steel was not good. David Goyer is a terrible writer who was saved on some Batman films by Christopher Nolan.
It's a very divisive movie. Some like it, some don't.
I think its a good movie, its just not a great superman adaptation. Like Constantine
I love Chris Nolan but Jonathan Nolan absolutely did the heavy lifting for TDK Trilogy. Chris famously never read a Batman comic before and Goyer...is Goyer.
That's fair. And Jonathan just ran a masterclass with Fallout doing what Star Wars could not.
I thought 300 was a great movie, is he a new a Spielberg no not even close. But he’s also not as bad as people on social media say , it’s the in thing to say horrible things about anything to do with him but his movies while not the best at least you can tell he puts his heart into them and I don’t care some of them are stupid fun and 300 is legit amazing.
300 was a good movie. The only movie from Snyder I like. It was released in 2006. 18 years is a long time between hits.
Really interesting how streamers can say anything about show performance because, unlike theatrical box office or Nielsen ratings, data isn’t shared. Amazon is touting Fallout as among their most watched show, generating interest, and we just have to take their word for it. The next generation of promotion.
Is there any chance that statement is/was true?
It's theoretically true at that moment in time (and only counting Barbie's theatrical not it's PVOD/Home release). It had a okay amount of views, and you could count each view as two people watching it one time. Taking their number and multiply by the worldwide average $8 ticket price would suggest more people watched. Of course, in reality it's not taking into account things like repeat viewing, or that it's an average of 2 people over all of Netflix and some Netflix movies would have more per view watchers - kids/family programming - meaning others must only have one watcher per view. (I suspect Snyder movies lean more towards the lower number.) Or that a lot of people aren't actively watching it in the same way they did Barbie.
Both Rebel Moon movies are just awful.
Bro learnt Maths from University of Zacktimania. This is laughably fallacious
I suspect less than a quarter of part one's viewers watched part two. Saying part one was watched more than Barbie is also total bullshit just looking at social media and talking to people irl. It's also not really a good measure for success, if people aren't subscribing to Netflix to watch Rebel Moon then it didn't make any money.
I think he means 'Barbie' the person, not the movie. So, like, Barbie and one other person.
Well, it doesn't say much about Rebel Moon if people supposedly watched it more than Barbie and yet I've never heard anyone say they saw it.
He finally out did SuckerPunch which I thought was impossible. But again he has proven me wrong. Hack Snyder must be stopped.