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I bounced off the book the first few times I tried read it. But that was mostly due to how it's a completely different genre of book than the others.
It seems obvious in hindsight but as soon as I realized that the genre was "60s Detective/Western" everything flipped in my head and I was really able to enjoy it.
I don't particularly love the idea of him spending time rewriting novels he's already released. So what if it wasn't perfect - it didn't stop the other 3 from getting released and doesn't hurt era 2 as a whole. As we can see from these posts plenty of people like it just fine.
Brandon is committing to a massive undertaking. Even as prolific as he is I don't want him working on stuff he's already completed. That feels like a slippery slope.
Yeah, I'm okay with him re-writing White Sand because the graphic novels are....well they're certainly something. But things he already published *as* novels? No thanks. Just keep it there. It's the same thing with all the times he tweaked WoR's ending...just leave it as-is.
i want a full on george lucas'ing of the entire catalogue, going back through making minor changes that just make people mad but he's convinced we're all gonna love it
Agreed here as well. TBH, it sounds like prime material for a "Author's foreword", like when you read certain editions of The Gunslinger (King's Dark Tower book 1). Add your note explaining the issues, hope the reader stays on.
I agree, but I also think a re-write, or at least an extended revision of Elantris would be good, much as I like the book anyway.
Alloy of Law is fine as it is.
Between November 5, 2023 and April 6, 2024, I read 21 books, seven of which were my first time through Mistborn. (Of the other 14, two were the first two Stormlight Archive books, and seven were WoT #7 through 13.) Since then I finished the Stormlight Archive to date, including the Arcanum, as well as A Memory of Light.
Needless to say, I've been on a Sanderson kick, I am a relatively new fan, and I love his writing. It did take me a bit to get into Alloy of Law, as sometimes happens with new series for me, but I was intrigued by the time jump and liked what he did with it, and I certainly came to love the characters and the setting.
Welp, I am 1/3 of the way through Elantris (tenth anniversary edition) and it is by far the most boring, exposition-by-dialogue Sanderson work I've read. Maybe I'm less invested since it's a standalone Cosmere book but he has certainly learned to write much better since then. I'm going to finish it for completism's sake but I hope I like the middle and end better than the beginning.
I agree with the general sentiment that he should keep writing new stuff—but he's so prolific that if he takes some time to tweak some old stuff, it won't take that much away from the new stuff, will it?
It’s not my favorite, but I’m honestly surprised to see he thought of it this way.
I thought this was a fun short novel after Mistborn about that world’s future. Finding two more books that rapidly took that more seriously was great, and beyond my expectations.
I’d read another trilogy another few hundred years into the future too!
I’d eat up some past/future about Elantris too.
Good news in case you were unaware! Brandon is writing Mistborn Era 3 and two Elantris sequels as his next big project!
He expects all 5 books to take about 3 years to complete, and he doesn't want to release any of them until all of them are completed because he's hoping to re-capture the foreshadowing mastery that we got in the first Mistborn trilogy.
Have you considered giving a try to other of his books? It seems a bit exaggerated to assume that all the other Cosmere books won't work for you just because the start of Era 2 didn't.
There's a lot of variety, so could be that another of his books fits more to your tastes.
Era 2 was hard for me too the time jump and a whole new cast of characters was alot for.me and the changes to the magic. (I like powerful characters like vin) but honestly I think I prefer it over era 1 now. It just gets better an better and honestly inthink Wayne is my favourite character that brandon has written so far
I think he’s making some really solid points for himself, I mean it’s placement in the series is vital, and yeah some of the characterizations and aspects were a bit weak, which stems from the fact that it wasn’t originally a novel. I’d fully support a rewrite, I feel like I can trust Brandon to maintain the best aspects of the book while improving the not so best aspects to create something more fleshed out. Heck, it’ll probably even manage to enhance the rest of the series even more.
I'm actually curious to see what would be the reception to such a rewrite. I don't think I've heard of any authors going back to extensively rewrite their already-published novel.
Most I can think of is Tolkien going back and completely rewriting Riddles in The Dark for The Hobbit to fit LoTR. He also made other minor changes all over the place, but never thought to change the mass of the book.
Also both versions of The Hobbit are technically canon to LoTR, one being the true story and the other being the story Bilbo told.
Gunslinger only went through some edits to fit better into the whole series when King realized it didn't read like a series book, but like a set of short stories(which to be fair, it was originally published as 4 stories in a magazine). The style of the story didn't change at all, it was still clearly 19-year-old King's writing.
I would totally be on board for a re-write if only because we could get some extra POV chapters from Steris while she's kidnapped. 100% need to see her work though all of that and annoy the shit out of her captors by critiquing their kidnapping tactics.
If he did it after the Cosmere was complete and he wants to touch up the parts he's not as proud of? Power to him. If he's going to delay the back half of Stormlight, or Mistborn Era 3/4, or other books he plans to write? I'd really prefer he not.
I agree, all of Era 2 is just so *excellently paced*, but Alloy FEELS like it's a stand-alone in how smooth and snappy everything is.
The dichotomy that seals it is that it seamlessly slips into it's place in the "series" in the sense that Brandon wastes no page space, doesn't bog himself down in unnecessary exposition or explanations (a huge boon when many fantasy books, including his, take time to re-explain some world or magic stuff every iteration) and it hits the ground running with some of his best characters and a *ton* of fun lore Easter eggs for long-time fans. (Not cosmere stuff, but Scadrial/Catacendre stuff from Era1).
Wax and Wayne and Marasi and Steris getting their fleshing out and arcs in the following books DOES help a lot, and the fact that Lessi gets fridged at the very beginning was a huge pain point spoilers Era2: >!until Shadows of Self, of course!<.
But man all that just made Alloy BETTER in hindsight.
It’s Elantris for me but Warbreaker is a close close second.
I’ve read Era 2 a few times and it’s so much more fun to read than Era 1. But I am also entitled to my incorrect opinion. ;p
Definitely Elantris.
Both have twists in the finale that seem a tad contrived, but I’d argue Warbreaker has a better developed cast of characters.
To me, Elantris had too many pointless twists that take away from that book’s narrative (which I now realize were set ups for later).
I couldn't finish Elantris and ended searching up a summary online. It was painfully boring! I didn't like The Alloy of Law that much but definitely not his worst novel!!
I actually like Elantris quite a bit more than Warbreaker. For me they have similar weaknesses (characters, prose, plot) but Elantris I feel has much more depth in its worldbuilding and more cool shit.
I’d vote Cytonic, if we are including non-Cosmere. Or Calamity.
I quite liked Alloy of Law, even if it isn’t up to snuff compared to the original trilogy.
Not sure that I agree with the ending of Calamity being *bad*, but it certainly felt.... anticlimactic? Like 'yay story is resolved', but also ' this doesn't feel nearly as well crafted as other parts of the world'.
It just felt very... "really?" >!We have a dramatic scene where Prof rejects turning back, but then a few pages later he does it *offscreen*? There's this whole big deal about how in a world without Calamity even Steelheart was a good guy, but then he's actually a totally different person which ruins the whole message but it convinces Calamity anyway? Mizzy is an Epic now but we find out through a text message we don't get to see and aren't told what she does? The basic concept was fine but it just feels like it was done so *sloppily*.!<
Cytonic was tougher for me because I was truly invested in Skyward, whereas Calamity I was always just like... "Yeah Reckoners is fine, wasn't expecting that much."
But it is easily the same two for me, excluding Alcatraz which isn't for me to the point where I can't evaluate it.
I liked Cytonic though I'm quite fond of settings like the nowhere that are sort of a liminal dimension.
You're right about Calamity though. That one's a mess.
I've felt Well of Ascension was his weakest since I read it in 2009-ish and nothing he's written since has challenged it. He's written books I haven't loved in the meantime, but nothing I've overtly disliked.
I think get why Brandon might not love Alloy, though, in the sense that it's a lower-stakes story. It wasn't intended to usher in a new era of Mistborn when it was written, it just fell into the role by accident. If he knew what Era 2 was going to be before he started writing it, he would have done some things differently, Im sure. Perhaps Alloy of Law and Shadows of Self could be combined into one great book rather than two solid ones.
I think a lot of us did, it's why you'll see people disagree with Brandon here.
It's more like, I can see why Brandon's concerned about it. He might even have some data that suggests that readers frequently check out Alloy and then give up on Era 2, because it doesn't really feel necessary.
I suppose it was a few things. The political storyline felt shallow when compared to other things I was reading at the time, the villains were more bad characters than bad people, and the romance arc just felt frustrating. That's not to say there wasn't anything I liked in the book, the ending sequence was engaging at the very least and I kinda liked the whodunit arc, but so much of the book felt like a slog.
A few years back I was trying to reread the Mistborn trilogy and I just put it down. I felt I just couldn't go through the book again.
That's high praise then because I just finished Tress a couple days ago and thought the writing was fantastic. I've only read up through the bands of morning of his other books so I'm excited to go back and read his older ones.
I feel like he makes good points, but he’s too hard on himself.
Alloy of law is an amazing book that knows what it is. It doesn’t overstay its welcome, and the plot and characters are just enjoyable enough to make for a memorable first entry.
And good god, the dialogue between Wax and Wayne is some of the most humorous prose that Sanderson has written.
The banter between Wax and Wayne is where I almost had to stop reading. At one point one of them says something almost identical to “how about I introduce my fist to your face?” and I just audibly groaned and had to put the book down for the day. But to each their own!
I'm sure I'll get hated for this, but I think the original Mistborn Trilogy might be his weakest.
Don't get me wrong, I still loved them. And have reread them a few times.
But I just think his writing has improved a lot since then.
The series still has the biggest "oh fuck" moment I think I've had in any of his books.
But I think as a whole his characters in that series aren't as in depth or complex as he writes elsewhere.
I actually think this series could be the cause of the "Sanderson writes simple characters" thing. And because everyone recommends starting here, people who end up putting it down share that opinion with others.
I would have put Elantris below it, but fuck me did that book have a fantastic antagonist.
Now before I get burned at the stake, I'm not saying the books are bad. I enjoyed them lol.
But Era 2 as a whole for me just had much better characters.
And the depth of the SA characters blows them all out of the water.
Just my opinion after may rereads of them all
I agree with this. I'm rereading era1 as I read era2 and I just don't like the characters in era1 as much. They're good but I think his writing and character development has gotten better.
The development of Steris.... OMG I love her!
Spoilers for MIstborn Era 2
>!The development of Steris and her relationship with Wax is one of my favorite arcs in his works. It's such a refreshing take on a love story. I love the bait and switch with Marasi in the first book, where it almost feels like "follow your heart, date the hot young chick who's into you" is what the book/Wayne is implying.!<
>!But then we get this blossoming relationship between two more mature people with decades of baggage who married out of necessity, but as they really get to know each other things gradually move from respect to affection to love.!<
>!And we already know Wax, he's the main POV character. So we get to see Steris opening up through his eyes, and we discover more and more lovable about her, so different from the person you meet in that first meeting.!<
So good!!!!
The only character arc I think I like better unequivocally is Dalinars, but I won't go into that further because spoilers.
>I would have put Elantris below it, but fuck me did that book have a fantastic antagonist.
Hrathen was great, but so was TLR and Ruin. And Sarene and Raoden suuuuuuuuuuuck.
I just loved Hrathen.
I kinda felt that TLR and Ruin were cool, but also kinda standard as bad dudes.
Hrathens motivations and story arc were something I don't think I've seen as often, and he was really well written.
To the point that I liked him better than the other main characters lol.
I totally understand him wanting to rewrite it as an artist. How many writers don't wish they could redo a book they felt isn't as good as it could have been? However the reality is he shouldn't rewrite it - at least not for many years. Even with his high productivity he's still got tons of the Cosmere to write, possibly future series for his YA publishers, and possibly more spontaneous additions to the Cosmere like the secret projects (though not necessarily secret) to enhance the canon. Then there's the issue of writing and publishing an improved AoL opens a can of worms for other books. Why not then write improved versions of Elantris, Misrborn era 1 and Warbreaker? Then years later rewrite then a third time because his skills would've improved yet again? It's for a reason that finished means just that with books.
I feel like this could be the start of an era where books get remakes like movies and games do. Straight up same events and characters and POVs, just with the dialogue and worldbuilding polished.
"Coming next year, the 2025 version of Moby Dick. The way Melville would have written it today!"
It’s not like authors haven’t gone back to old books to clean up continuity or flesh things out more before. Tolkien famously revisited The Hobbit to tweak Riddles in the Dark, though admittedly that’s just a single chapter to make The Lord of the Rings make more sense. Stephen King also reworked The Stand in the 90s to add back content he was forced to cut in the original release and update the setting, and he overhauled the first Dark Tower book around 2003 to make it line up better with the later books in the series. I don’t know if Brandon should do a full rewrite, but an overhaul like King’s could work.
Honestly, I like *Alloy of Law* better than *Bands of Mourning* or *Lost Metal*. Personally, I think those are weaker. Lost Metal in particular, as it didn't really wrap up a lot of hanging threads, just kind of swept them under the rug.
I think *Bands of Mourning* was trying to do too much. The fact that people out of nowhere are like >!Oh yeah, the Lord Ruler left behind some magical armbands, that's totally something an evil oppressive dictator would do, that somehow was never mentioned before in the series. It wasn't a believable red herring, and not in the "I totally saw that plot twist coming" kind of way, but in the "this is breaking my immersion because I can't believe he'd write something so badly" kind of way.!<
I’m not sure why you’re arguing that >!Rashek would not do those things. Yes he would. The entirety of HoA was about stuff Rashek did to prepare for Ruin that’s probably why Brando thought the red herring would work. TFE ends with Vin ripping out the armbands he carried iirc.!<
Really don’t follow this logic at all.
>Really don’t follow this logic at all.
Because while >!Rashek did provide things like canned food, survival supplies, and restoring knowledge he suppressed about allomancy, he jealously guarded his position as a quasi-immortal being. You don't turn your best friends into jello monsters and engage in a reproductive genocide if you're just going to hand out all your powers for the first person to think about going on an archaeological dig.!<
The issue is overblown here in two ways:
>!One, You can just assume he left the bands for himself in case his old ones got stolen, of which this did happen at the end of TFE. The legend (however fake) is based on the premise that someone who takes them gains his powers.!<
>!Two, “Gaining Fullborn powers” is a contradiction in the established Scadrial magic systems up until that point. Unkeyed metalminds had not yet been fully fleshed out, leaving the reader to be suspicious about what they’re really for. To the characters themselves, they never met Rashek, and Sazed would be no help as he’s conflicted by two shards.!<
The characters don’t have the same view that we as readers do. I still disagree that it doesn’t work. Works just fine as something you’re supposed to suspect.
>The characters don’t have the same view that we as readers do. I still disagree that it doesn’t work. Works just fine as something you’re supposed to suspect.
I'll just have to agree to disagree. Thank you for sharing your perspective 🙂
Would really hate if he rewrote the novel. Elantris on the other hand I think would make a great rewrite. I’ve always felt the story of Elantris is a 5/5 but the writing is a 2.5/5
Somehow, I totally agree despite Elantris being probably in my top 3 Cosmere books. I would love for him to do a rewrite at his current skill level. Especially if he made the book longer. I'll take anything I can get for more Elantris at this point.
That makes me feel better as I really didn’t enjoy it and thought I’d hate second era, but then ended up falling in love with it and love era II overall, but this actually makes me feel a bit less crazy, as I’ve had strong thoughts about it being weak / confused why people like it.
To be fair, most people don’t like Elantris and I freaking love it, so I don’t think my take is definitive, this stuff is personal.
I would definitely place SoS and BoM above AoL and TLM. TLM was one of the first big Cosmere-crossover books and I feel like it only half-hit the mark for what a crossover book should be delivering. Especially given how little we know about >!the Aethers!<, some of the characters introduced in TLM feel more like plot devices. That said, all the fight scenes in TLM are 10/10.
I abandoned it the first two times I tried, finally decided to go further, and it gets steadily and steadily better.
It made some decisions I hated initially, but paid off amazingly well, and the ending… well, it’s a Sanderson ending lol. It’s worth it. So, I feel you, but definitely recommend it, even if Waxes annoying personality is annoying you - even that has payoff (it hits some comedic gold later
I have been on the fence about TLM.
I think it suffers from the hype around it. Shadows of Self and The Bands of Mourning are some of the best novels Sanderson has put out there. The final book had a thought couple of acts to follow up.
It also was the first book the Brandon completely went gloves off on in terms of the Cosmere connectivity.
And that’s been a touchy point among fans. I know a lot of us here are for that, but there are other fans that aren’t aware/don’t enjoy that type of shared universe.
Personally I enjoyed it, but I think there were some parts in the middle that dragged. I’m on the fence about >!the ghosrbloods crew saving the day.!< There is a magic to seeing the on-world groups save the day and it’s more narratively satisfying, but I think their inclusion was done well.
Above all, the ending was amazing.
I’m a big Cosmere person, and I get hyped whenever there’s extra Cosmere connectivity going on, but in the Lost Metal it felt out of place. Like he started the series with one story in mind and then veered off to Shard stuff
And there was this massive hype about the Bands and how it was created, and effectively nothing happened in TLM with the Bands except that it was mysteriously drained and then given to the Southerners. No new development on anything else. That was my biggest disappointment of that hook.
> I think it suffers from the hype around it
Maybe, but I think this detracts from valid complaints, too.
I don't think TLM had any twists I didn't see coming. Which is crazy for me for a Sanderson novel. Usually, if there are twists, I don't see them at all or at minimum not the whole thing. TLM felt like it had the most cliches of any Sanderson novel.
Telsin was a letdown, multiple times, IMO. I guess this could be a criticism for the series, but TLM is the nail in the coffin. She felt like she was purely there for plot contrivances and never seemed particularly competent. We also have the scene where Wax 'overhears' them talking about their plans for some reason that are already laid, one of the biggest cliches in media that exists and I was super surprised to see turn up here.
***Stuff with Sazed feels like he's changing too quickly when we have examples like Ati holding out against Shardic intent for thousands of years. This is subject to more knowledge/information, could be more things making it happen.
The ending felt forced and like literally anything could have happened and 'worked', as opposed to feeling like the logical ending or a twist or puzzle pieces fitting together (and these are how I usually feel with Sanderson's writing).
***Wayne had a few dialogue moments I thought were out of character. Like he wouldn't just come out and say certain things from his traits and characterization we've seen previously. Could be the time gap and it's supposed to be him changing/maturing, but him opening up multiple times at the drop of a dime felt super out of character for me. Other times both Wax and Wayne felt a bit caricature(y) with their traits and dialogue.
Edit: Super late edit, but I wanted to clarify that the points I made that I put asterisks (***) next to are very minor complaints, or even things that could be possibly clarified down the line or we don't have enough information about.
These types of complaints are a good example of what my maximum level of usual complaints look like in other Sanderson books: Super minor, makes sense in later books, more subjective opinions, or completely non-existent.
I definitely agree with you on the twists and Telsin.
I was hoping for some big family showdown, especially considering how things were left at the end of Bands of Mourning.
And her being incompetent isn’t necessarily bad, but I think it was taken too far.
And the Tower twist was pretty obvious.
The Wayne dialogue I can forgive though because there were what, like 20 years between the Bands and TLM?
I thought the cheesiest Wax and Wayne moment in The Lost Metal was >!in the last fight against their doppelgangers, one of them says "switch?" and they switch weapons for a moment. That's a really dumb idea when fighting for your lives and trying to save the world. It's the kind of cheesy thing that works in action movies that have a light tone, but it felt out of place for the tone of the Wax and Wayne series by that point. In comparison, the scene in Bands of Mourning where Wax and Wayne rattle off various strategems like "Spoiled Tomato" worked perfectly for me.!<
I agree. I was enjoying it until we got to the end, and then I was kinda left with a "is that it?" feeling. The climax simply fell flat for me. On the other hand I loved Alloy of Law.
Totally agree. Recently read The Lost Metal and found it strangely both rushed and dragged out.
Easily the weakest Mistborn book by far imo. Still good but weak. It just felt like a big setup for the Cosmere rather than a conclusion to the Wax and Wayne era.
I was especially disappointed in >!the handling of Wayne’s death. It sort of just happened. I didn’t really feel any “emotional hit” so to speak, and this is from someone who cries when characters do something nice to each other let alone one of them dying!<
Brando says this when Well of Ascension is right there.
And to be clear, the weakest Cosmere book is still leagues better than most fantasy books out there. But for me, Alloy of Law is easily one of the most fun Cosmere books, and leagues better writing than a lot of the early stuff.
Brandon is a grown man and he can do whatever he wants, but I really have zero interest in a rewrite of Alloy of Law (nor in a novelisation of White Sand for that matter), even if I agree that it might be his weakest book, at least in the Cosmere.
It's hard to complain about Brandon's output, but i general I have no interest in writers spending time rewriting books they've already wrote.
I read AoL in 2012 right after finishing the original trilogy and it definitely left me wanting more. Without those and the itch they started I wouldn’t have read WoK which is (to me) still the best book he’s written. I love AoL.
This is a shocking take. The action in Alloy made me change my opinion on Brandon’s ability to write action. The plot was clever enough, hints of a bigger mystery…
I’m in a different boat, after finishing Mistborn Era 1 it was refreshing to not have such a heavy doom and gloom book. I enjoyed the intro to the new world with a bit more of a light hearted tone. Not everyone agrees, but I enjoyed it as a bit of a fresh breath before the heavy stuff sets in again
I vote for Elantris being his worst book (don’t yell at me… “worst” doesn’t mean “crappy”, just “not as good as the rest”). Well, at least of his published, non-prime books. Alloy of Law might be his most out of place book, though.
I understand his self-reflection, but having recently gone through a reread of Mistborn era 1 and 2, era 2 (including alloy) shows much more writing maturity. Era 1 had a number of scenes that felt like “talking heads”, while era 2 had fully formed scenes. I will always love Vin and Elend and Kelsier, but Era 2 fed me in a very satisfying way.
I don't know how I feel about this. Personally, it's definitely one of the weaker ones for me, but I don't think it's so atrocious that it requires a remake. I might prefer the remade version, but I think some people will prefer the original or dislike any greater repercussions it causes to the series's.
I think my biggest draw to this idea is that it'll take away time he could spend on another new book. I'd also argue that there is no worst book in the cosmere bc everyone will connect to each book differently. Some fandoms unanimously agree that certain parts, books, episodes, etc are the worst with a few outliers maybe singing their praises. But I feel like every ranking I've seen of the cosmere has been wildly different, and I think that's actually neat how people connect to these books in different ways
I'm reading these for the first time right now and the difference between the first and second books is staggering. Alloy is by far the most "what you see is what you get" of any of his books which deviates really strongly from his normal style of setting up a trail of breadcrumbs for the reader. This tracks for me.
I actually just read it and I thought it was fine. Light, fast paced, kind of funny, cool use of powers. I think he is being overly critical. I also dont like when authors go back and re-write books. Same with Lucas constantly changing and rereleasing star wars. You made it, you finished it, you put it out, move on to the next artwork.
There are some situations where a remake makes sense, but just because you're not totally satisfied with it is imo not a good enough reason.
''I wonder sometimes'' doesn't sound like he's seriously considering the idea to me. I agree with most people here that he shouldn't spend time rewriting an already-published novel before he's done with the Cosmere, but I also feel like we don't need to worry that he'll actually do that.
I think I can understand what he means. Neither era is bad but they are very different, with the magic system being really the only similarity between them. Honestly, that's what made me abandon the Wax and Wayne series at first- how different it felt from Era 1 Mistborn.
I loved Alloy of Law and am constantly baffled by Brandon's insistence that it is his weakest book.
Well of Ascension, Shadows of Self, Rhythm of War... these three would be, in my mind, serious contenders for "worst" or "weakest" Cosmere book.
Had me in the first half, lost me at Shadows of Self and Rhythm of War. With an opinion *that* wrong, I'm tempted to assume I may not give Well of Ascension enough credit
For me RoW is by far the weakest Stormlight entry because of Venli. I can’t tell you how many times I skimmed ahead to see how many pages I had to get through for her parts. The answer was far too often *a lot*. Still loved it for everything else but on re-reads I think I might skip those
What the fuck Brando, I love Alloy, after all the big books I loved a post western that happens in a short time and had a nice conclusion, Wax & Wayne are the most entertainingly fun duo around. Alloy would make a great movie also
It's good as is. I'd much rather Brandon focus his energies on new books. I want him to get to the cyberpunk era he's not sure he'll have time to write.
I'm a big fan of the heist style stories where the villain is immortal or invulnerable, and the whole plot is the protagonist finding clues to work out their weakness.
*Alloy of Law*, *Final Empire*, and the first Reckoner's book *Steelheart* are some of my favourite Sandersons and the I think the strongest in their respective series.
It was either gonna be Alloy or Elantris as his weakest and Alloy doesn’t have Hrathen saying, “You should know by now that nothing I do is for show.”
That said while it’s a stronger story it definitely reads like the “Prime” version. Someday someone is gonna read Elantris 1-3 in order and get real confused about the style jump from 1 to 2.
I read Alloy of Law in a single evening while sitting in the hot tub, just absolutely plowed through it. I fully disagree with his opinion on it being his weakest
I loved alloy of law, I thought it was a fun romp and a pleasant break from the scope of the rest of his work. Short, sweet, fun, and with some of the coolest action I've read from him
I loved alloy of law, I thought it was a fun romp and a pleasant break from the scope of the rest of his work. Short, sweet, fun, and with some of the coolest action I've read from him
I definitely don’t think Alloy is his weakest.
It’s *among* his weaker novels, but honestly before an Alloy rewrite I’d much rather see:
- An Elantris rewrite
- A proper modern-Brandon White Sand novel
I’m willing to bet that Alloy could be fixed by “tweaking” a lot more easily than either of those others (including the existing “tweaking” in the Elantris 10th Anniversary version).
Aaaaaand if he’s already tweaking Wax & Wayne stuff anyway… I’d love to see that one scene in Shadows of Self—where >!MeLaan confronts Arabel on the precinct roof!< — changed from using “King James” dialect (which makes no sense in the setting) to using High Imperial.
Nah braw, what’s written is done. I loved alloy of law. Great characters and a fun expansion to introduce the rest of the cosmere continuing a great series. No need to rewrite. But, I’d read it if he did.
I think all the mistborn series are his most experimental tbh. Well of Ascension might be his actual weakest cosmere novel cuz you can tell he didn’t know how to write a sequel, Lost Metal’s exposition felt too dump-y for me, a consequence of the first very cosmere involved novel, I agree Wax’s emotions in Alloy of Law feel kind of melodramatic because we don’t get enough of the connection/backstory behind them but I think those are all just cuz he’s trying different styles to see what does and doesn’t stick for him🤷🏽♂️
I'm definitely in the group of people who fell off trying to get into Alloy of Law. It just didn't grab me and I had something else I wanted to read, so I have never continued Mistborn beyond it.
Alloy of Law is my favourite Cosmere book (behind Sixth of the Dusk if we're including shorter stuff). It's fun, it's new, it's hilarious, it has great characters and great moments. Wax and Wayne are so great together, they're a pleasure to be with start to the finish of Lost Metal.
Obviously Era 1 is grander, Stormlight is 'better', and Words of Radiance is a close second, but there's a joy I found reading Alloy that keeps my coming back to it. It's a diamond in the rough, but I love its shine.
Frugal is great for what it was, which just happens to not be what a lot of diehard Cosmere-focused fans are into.
Elantris is easily the weakest. If it had been my intro to Sanderson, I wouldn't have read anything else by him.
Sanderson and I are really out of sync on this. The two accidents are my favorite Era 2 books. The Alloy of Law spun out of control and became a full novel when he didn’t mean for it to be one. I love it. Shadows of Self was written because he was finding it hard to get back into Bands of Mourning after writing the end of Wheel of Time and Stormlight 2. It may be tied for my favorite Mistborn book.
I thought Era 2 got weaker as it went. The Bands of Mourning and The Lost Metal may be more important to the overall Cosmere, but I don’t enjoy them anywhere near as much. And The Lost Metal especially feels…less fleshed out I guess. Like it needed to be longer, but that’s not how long Wax and Wayne books are so it just wasn’t. In hindsight, I wonder how much the Skyward sequels and the Secret Projects stole mental and creative energy away from The Lost Metal.
Honestly I love basically all of Alloy of Law, the only part I disliked was when Wax shot the bullet through a (about to collapse) speed bubble, felt like one weird outlier over-the-top anime/wanted moment in an otherwise pretty grounded yet fantastical story.
I can see how he sees it as his weakest in the sense that it is not a great first book in a series but it is a good standalone as it doesn’t really setup anything for the rest of the era
Wild considering it's the best of era 2 Mistborn.
It's like the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies - it doesn't try to seem like more than it is, but it sets a tone and an expectation and *delivers*.
I thought *Shadows of Self* did something similar - books 3 and 4 jumped the shark though
I think the idea is cool. Music gets remixes, remasters, rereleases, etc. Films get extended editions, reboots, remasters with bonus content. Books get….? Just rerelease the novel and call it the “definitive expanded edition” or something. Or heck, just a straight up second edition. Textbooks get multiple editions that sometimes contain more comprehensive rewrites.
I honestly think considering a ground up rework at all is kind of insane, it’s a bit startling to hear he’s put any sort of real thought to the idea.
I hate the idea of going back and simply rewriting a book years later. Just doesn’t sit right with me can’t explain it
There are way too many comments for me to be expected to read them all, so apologies if this is a redundant notion, but why not pull a full Ender's Shadow, here, giving this 'problematic' piece a restorative rewrite through the eyes of a different character? This would allow for 'narrative rigor' while massaging out some of the rough spots.
I would definitely say that Alloy of Law is fine, decent even, definitely not the weakest Cosmere novel. Ignoring the mess that is White Sand, The Lost Metal easily takes the worst spot for me. So many plot threads are resolved in a really unsatisfying way or not at all (>!Southern Scadrians and the Bands of Mourning were set up so perfectly only to be swept to the side and the way Telsin was handled is so painfully lacking, and Waynes deatb honestly lacked any resounding emotional oomph!<), the on-world group being >!sidelined for groups we know much less about, like the Ghostbloods and TwinSoul (we know almost nothing about Aether and his entire character felt like a copout)!<. It just felt like an awkward setup for more Cosmere-aware books to come. I'm hopeful that Era 3 being the Ghostbloods series will handle the inter-series connections with the delicacy they need
I agree with his take. I don’t agree that he should rewrite it. It was a decent introduction to a few important characters and led to some much better books. Fortunately because of its nature it’s a quick read and still fun despite its flaws.
With all due respect, he's just plain wrong. That would be Elantris.
You cannot tell me that a book where a character that's supposed to be on the autism spectrum but comes off as a petulant bitch is better than the Alloy of Law.
I had initially dropped Mistborn after AoL. I read it right after Era 1 and only got back into it when I wanted something to listen to while walking my dog.
Things I loved about AoL coming right off of era 1:
Changes to the world from era 1
Allomancers interacting with the technology of a different era
References to characters from era 1 (Elendel, Lord Mistborn, Harmony, etc.)
Twinborns- explores Feruchemy more than we got in Era 1 and allows for unique combinations of powers.
I struggled to connect to Wax as a character initially, likely due to his age and the (very simplified) plot of >!Sheriff retires but has to do one last case after his date got kidnapped!< didn't convince me to want to read 3 more books about him.
I think AoL did a pretty good job of being a cool quick story after Era 1 but failed as an enticing first book of a series.
I have to say I agree. I loved Alloy of Law, and it kick started a mini obsession with cowboys, but its quality (and to a much lesser degree, the quality of the Wax and Wayne series as a whole) is far lower than most of Sanderson's work. Doesn't mean it can't be loved, doesn't even mean it's a bad novel. Just that the usual plotting and pacing wasn't there.
However, I also agree that he shouldn't be rewriting books.
I know he didn't entirely write it on his own but he must have forgotten about Dark One: Forgotten. Alloy of the Law is not even his worse cosmere novel.
IMO Elantris is easily his weakest overall. Alloy isnt bad though overall.
But there always has to be a "worst" book in a series so I don't really see an issue with it even if he does consider it his weakest book
I´m half reading Shadows of Self, so I can´t tell if AoL is the weakest yet, but I can say that i really liked Alloy of Law. I already know the changue genre and I think that help a little, but although cowboys/western is not my favorite genre I like mistery and I enjoyed a lot. A detective AND a cowboy WITH magic powers? YES PLEASE. I liked the mistery and trying to solve it out before Wax (I fail lol), I liked the new exciting combinations of powers using a magic system already loved and the battles. Man, I´am more a sword fighting enjoyer, but Wax and his gunfinghts are sooo cool.
Not every history have to be about saving the world and I enjoyed a lower stakes history, like I was reading one of that popular series about a cool character that you can see in the newspaper of the book.
Could be better? yeah, maybe. I´m liking Steris and Wayne much more in the Shadows of Self and i am barely half of the book, but my point stands. Even if I haven´t read all cosmere and I don´t know if it is the weakest, i think Allow of Law is good and he shouldn´t waste time rewriting. I prefer more original historys or he writing Mistborn Era 3/Stormlight Archive
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I bounced off the book the first few times I tried read it. But that was mostly due to how it's a completely different genre of book than the others. It seems obvious in hindsight but as soon as I realized that the genre was "60s Detective/Western" everything flipped in my head and I was really able to enjoy it.
Yeah I had to take a very lengthy break between eras before I could get into era 2.
I don't particularly love the idea of him spending time rewriting novels he's already released. So what if it wasn't perfect - it didn't stop the other 3 from getting released and doesn't hurt era 2 as a whole. As we can see from these posts plenty of people like it just fine. Brandon is committing to a massive undertaking. Even as prolific as he is I don't want him working on stuff he's already completed. That feels like a slippery slope.
Yeah, I'm okay with him re-writing White Sand because the graphic novels are....well they're certainly something. But things he already published *as* novels? No thanks. Just keep it there. It's the same thing with all the times he tweaked WoR's ending...just leave it as-is.
i want a full on george lucas'ing of the entire catalogue, going back through making minor changes that just make people mad but he's convinced we're all gonna love it
And there's lots of random farting
No. That ends with him selling it to Disney in 30 years after the fandom has turned toxic.
I think toxic fandoms deserve disneyfication
"All the times"?... afaik there's [only a single time](https://www.brandonsanderson.com/three-stories-in-new-formats/).
Agreed here as well. TBH, it sounds like prime material for a "Author's foreword", like when you read certain editions of The Gunslinger (King's Dark Tower book 1). Add your note explaining the issues, hope the reader stays on.
I agree, but I also think a re-write, or at least an extended revision of Elantris would be good, much as I like the book anyway. Alloy of Law is fine as it is.
I think that already happened. That's why we have Elantris X anniversary. Not much of a rewrite.
Between November 5, 2023 and April 6, 2024, I read 21 books, seven of which were my first time through Mistborn. (Of the other 14, two were the first two Stormlight Archive books, and seven were WoT #7 through 13.) Since then I finished the Stormlight Archive to date, including the Arcanum, as well as A Memory of Light. Needless to say, I've been on a Sanderson kick, I am a relatively new fan, and I love his writing. It did take me a bit to get into Alloy of Law, as sometimes happens with new series for me, but I was intrigued by the time jump and liked what he did with it, and I certainly came to love the characters and the setting. Welp, I am 1/3 of the way through Elantris (tenth anniversary edition) and it is by far the most boring, exposition-by-dialogue Sanderson work I've read. Maybe I'm less invested since it's a standalone Cosmere book but he has certainly learned to write much better since then. I'm going to finish it for completism's sake but I hope I like the middle and end better than the beginning. I agree with the general sentiment that he should keep writing new stuff—but he's so prolific that if he takes some time to tweak some old stuff, it won't take that much away from the new stuff, will it?
I adore Alloy of Law. I understand his points about it, but I strongly disagree as to its overall quality.
I just looked at it like a stand-alone and enjoyed it. Felt like a Sherlock Holmes book in the Wild West with allomancers.
I always describe it as Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes with magic.
Same I even listen to the soundtrack while reading it
That's an intriguing idea
I did this when reading it to my partner, strongly recommend it, it’s perfect.
It’s one of my favorites of his. I love it. So I’m in the same boat.
It’s not my favorite, but I’m honestly surprised to see he thought of it this way. I thought this was a fun short novel after Mistborn about that world’s future. Finding two more books that rapidly took that more seriously was great, and beyond my expectations. I’d read another trilogy another few hundred years into the future too! I’d eat up some past/future about Elantris too.
Good news in case you were unaware! Brandon is writing Mistborn Era 3 and two Elantris sequels as his next big project! He expects all 5 books to take about 3 years to complete, and he doesn't want to release any of them until all of them are completed because he's hoping to re-capture the foreshadowing mastery that we got in the first Mistborn trilogy.
I'm not sure about the quality, but it is where I stopped reading the Cosmere. Just didn't hook well enough coming off the original Mistborn trilogy
Have you considered giving a try to other of his books? It seems a bit exaggerated to assume that all the other Cosmere books won't work for you just because the start of Era 2 didn't. There's a lot of variety, so could be that another of his books fits more to your tastes.
That’s wild to me, I much much preferred it to books 2 and 3 of the First Era.
So Mistborn is your only cosmere reading?
Era 2 was hard for me too the time jump and a whole new cast of characters was alot for.me and the changes to the magic. (I like powerful characters like vin) but honestly I think I prefer it over era 1 now. It just gets better an better and honestly inthink Wayne is my favourite character that brandon has written so far
I think he’s making some really solid points for himself, I mean it’s placement in the series is vital, and yeah some of the characterizations and aspects were a bit weak, which stems from the fact that it wasn’t originally a novel. I’d fully support a rewrite, I feel like I can trust Brandon to maintain the best aspects of the book while improving the not so best aspects to create something more fleshed out. Heck, it’ll probably even manage to enhance the rest of the series even more.
I'm actually curious to see what would be the reception to such a rewrite. I don't think I've heard of any authors going back to extensively rewrite their already-published novel.
Most I can think of is Tolkien going back and completely rewriting Riddles in The Dark for The Hobbit to fit LoTR. He also made other minor changes all over the place, but never thought to change the mass of the book. Also both versions of The Hobbit are technically canon to LoTR, one being the true story and the other being the story Bilbo told.
The Gunslinger comes to mind
Gunslinger only went through some edits to fit better into the whole series when King realized it didn't read like a series book, but like a set of short stories(which to be fair, it was originally published as 4 stories in a magazine). The style of the story didn't change at all, it was still clearly 19-year-old King's writing.
I would totally be on board for a re-write if only because we could get some extra POV chapters from Steris while she's kidnapped. 100% need to see her work though all of that and annoy the shit out of her captors by critiquing their kidnapping tactics.
If he did it after the Cosmere was complete and he wants to touch up the parts he's not as proud of? Power to him. If he's going to delay the back half of Stormlight, or Mistborn Era 3/4, or other books he plans to write? I'd really prefer he not.
Brandon is entitled to his incorrect opinion.
me @ brando https://i.redd.it/v6a3ke9t7f7d1.gif
This is me, im mad at him now
Yeah personally I think Warbreaker is his weakest
Haven't really thought about what I'd say is his weakest, but Alloy of Law is one of my favorites.
I agree, all of Era 2 is just so *excellently paced*, but Alloy FEELS like it's a stand-alone in how smooth and snappy everything is. The dichotomy that seals it is that it seamlessly slips into it's place in the "series" in the sense that Brandon wastes no page space, doesn't bog himself down in unnecessary exposition or explanations (a huge boon when many fantasy books, including his, take time to re-explain some world or magic stuff every iteration) and it hits the ground running with some of his best characters and a *ton* of fun lore Easter eggs for long-time fans. (Not cosmere stuff, but Scadrial/Catacendre stuff from Era1). Wax and Wayne and Marasi and Steris getting their fleshing out and arcs in the following books DOES help a lot, and the fact that Lessi gets fridged at the very beginning was a huge pain point spoilers Era2: >!until Shadows of Self, of course!<. But man all that just made Alloy BETTER in hindsight.
I love Warbreaker; for me it’s probably Elantris hands down. So damn slow and the payoff is… fine. It just varies way too much in quality.
It’s Elantris for me but Warbreaker is a close close second. I’ve read Era 2 a few times and it’s so much more fun to read than Era 1. But I am also entitled to my incorrect opinion. ;p
Definitely Elantris. Both have twists in the finale that seem a tad contrived, but I’d argue Warbreaker has a better developed cast of characters. To me, Elantris had too many pointless twists that take away from that book’s narrative (which I now realize were set ups for later).
I loved Elantris & fully agree with his choice. It was the first book of his I read, an ex gave it to me to read.
I couldn't finish Elantris and ended searching up a summary online. It was painfully boring! I didn't like The Alloy of Law that much but definitely not his worst novel!!
I actually like Elantris quite a bit more than Warbreaker. For me they have similar weaknesses (characters, prose, plot) but Elantris I feel has much more depth in its worldbuilding and more cool shit.
I’d vote Cytonic, if we are including non-Cosmere. Or Calamity. I quite liked Alloy of Law, even if it isn’t up to snuff compared to the original trilogy.
I'm a certified Cytonic defender, but the ending of Calamity was just *bad*.
Not sure that I agree with the ending of Calamity being *bad*, but it certainly felt.... anticlimactic? Like 'yay story is resolved', but also ' this doesn't feel nearly as well crafted as other parts of the world'.
It just felt very... "really?" >!We have a dramatic scene where Prof rejects turning back, but then a few pages later he does it *offscreen*? There's this whole big deal about how in a world without Calamity even Steelheart was a good guy, but then he's actually a totally different person which ruins the whole message but it convinces Calamity anyway? Mizzy is an Epic now but we find out through a text message we don't get to see and aren't told what she does? The basic concept was fine but it just feels like it was done so *sloppily*.!<
Cytonic was tougher for me because I was truly invested in Skyward, whereas Calamity I was always just like... "Yeah Reckoners is fine, wasn't expecting that much." But it is easily the same two for me, excluding Alcatraz which isn't for me to the point where I can't evaluate it.
I liked Cytonic though I'm quite fond of settings like the nowhere that are sort of a liminal dimension. You're right about Calamity though. That one's a mess.
I've felt Well of Ascension was his weakest since I read it in 2009-ish and nothing he's written since has challenged it. He's written books I haven't loved in the meantime, but nothing I've overtly disliked. I think get why Brandon might not love Alloy, though, in the sense that it's a lower-stakes story. It wasn't intended to usher in a new era of Mistborn when it was written, it just fell into the role by accident. If he knew what Era 2 was going to be before he started writing it, he would have done some things differently, Im sure. Perhaps Alloy of Law and Shadows of Self could be combined into one great book rather than two solid ones.
I kinda liked the lower-stakes story. Someone's robbing trains and kidnapping people, and someone's gotta stop 'em.
I think a lot of us did, it's why you'll see people disagree with Brandon here. It's more like, I can see why Brandon's concerned about it. He might even have some data that suggests that readers frequently check out Alloy and then give up on Era 2, because it doesn't really feel necessary.
This is crazy to me only because WoA is my favorite Era 1 book lol. Why do you think it was his weakest out of curiosity?
I suppose it was a few things. The political storyline felt shallow when compared to other things I was reading at the time, the villains were more bad characters than bad people, and the romance arc just felt frustrating. That's not to say there wasn't anything I liked in the book, the ending sequence was engaging at the very least and I kinda liked the whodunit arc, but so much of the book felt like a slog. A few years back I was trying to reread the Mistborn trilogy and I just put it down. I felt I just couldn't go through the book again.
Damn, I thought Warbreaker was better than Tress and Elantris.
That's high praise then because I just finished Tress a couple days ago and thought the writing was fantastic. I've only read up through the bands of morning of his other books so I'm excited to go back and read his older ones.
I feel like he makes good points, but he’s too hard on himself. Alloy of law is an amazing book that knows what it is. It doesn’t overstay its welcome, and the plot and characters are just enjoyable enough to make for a memorable first entry. And good god, the dialogue between Wax and Wayne is some of the most humorous prose that Sanderson has written.
The banter between Wax and Wayne is where I almost had to stop reading. At one point one of them says something almost identical to “how about I introduce my fist to your face?” and I just audibly groaned and had to put the book down for the day. But to each their own!
I'm sure I'll get hated for this, but I think the original Mistborn Trilogy might be his weakest. Don't get me wrong, I still loved them. And have reread them a few times. But I just think his writing has improved a lot since then. The series still has the biggest "oh fuck" moment I think I've had in any of his books. But I think as a whole his characters in that series aren't as in depth or complex as he writes elsewhere. I actually think this series could be the cause of the "Sanderson writes simple characters" thing. And because everyone recommends starting here, people who end up putting it down share that opinion with others. I would have put Elantris below it, but fuck me did that book have a fantastic antagonist. Now before I get burned at the stake, I'm not saying the books are bad. I enjoyed them lol. But Era 2 as a whole for me just had much better characters. And the depth of the SA characters blows them all out of the water. Just my opinion after may rereads of them all
I agree with this. I'm rereading era1 as I read era2 and I just don't like the characters in era1 as much. They're good but I think his writing and character development has gotten better. The development of Steris.... OMG I love her!
Spoilers for MIstborn Era 2 >!The development of Steris and her relationship with Wax is one of my favorite arcs in his works. It's such a refreshing take on a love story. I love the bait and switch with Marasi in the first book, where it almost feels like "follow your heart, date the hot young chick who's into you" is what the book/Wayne is implying.!< >!But then we get this blossoming relationship between two more mature people with decades of baggage who married out of necessity, but as they really get to know each other things gradually move from respect to affection to love.!< >!And we already know Wax, he's the main POV character. So we get to see Steris opening up through his eyes, and we discover more and more lovable about her, so different from the person you meet in that first meeting.!< So good!!!! The only character arc I think I like better unequivocally is Dalinars, but I won't go into that further because spoilers.
Dalinar is an irredeemable monster and I love him regardless, I wonder if he'll ever truly be rid of the guilt and horrors. Hopefully not
>I would have put Elantris below it, but fuck me did that book have a fantastic antagonist. Hrathen was great, but so was TLR and Ruin. And Sarene and Raoden suuuuuuuuuuuck.
I just loved Hrathen. I kinda felt that TLR and Ruin were cool, but also kinda standard as bad dudes. Hrathens motivations and story arc were something I don't think I've seen as often, and he was really well written. To the point that I liked him better than the other main characters lol.
I totally understand him wanting to rewrite it as an artist. How many writers don't wish they could redo a book they felt isn't as good as it could have been? However the reality is he shouldn't rewrite it - at least not for many years. Even with his high productivity he's still got tons of the Cosmere to write, possibly future series for his YA publishers, and possibly more spontaneous additions to the Cosmere like the secret projects (though not necessarily secret) to enhance the canon. Then there's the issue of writing and publishing an improved AoL opens a can of worms for other books. Why not then write improved versions of Elantris, Misrborn era 1 and Warbreaker? Then years later rewrite then a third time because his skills would've improved yet again? It's for a reason that finished means just that with books.
I feel like this could be the start of an era where books get remakes like movies and games do. Straight up same events and characters and POVs, just with the dialogue and worldbuilding polished. "Coming next year, the 2025 version of Moby Dick. The way Melville would have written it today!"
I hope not, that sounds terrible
It’s not like authors haven’t gone back to old books to clean up continuity or flesh things out more before. Tolkien famously revisited The Hobbit to tweak Riddles in the Dark, though admittedly that’s just a single chapter to make The Lord of the Rings make more sense. Stephen King also reworked The Stand in the 90s to add back content he was forced to cut in the original release and update the setting, and he overhauled the first Dark Tower book around 2003 to make it line up better with the later books in the series. I don’t know if Brandon should do a full rewrite, but an overhaul like King’s could work.
Don’t give AI bros any ideas.
Honestly, I like *Alloy of Law* better than *Bands of Mourning* or *Lost Metal*. Personally, I think those are weaker. Lost Metal in particular, as it didn't really wrap up a lot of hanging threads, just kind of swept them under the rug. I think *Bands of Mourning* was trying to do too much. The fact that people out of nowhere are like >!Oh yeah, the Lord Ruler left behind some magical armbands, that's totally something an evil oppressive dictator would do, that somehow was never mentioned before in the series. It wasn't a believable red herring, and not in the "I totally saw that plot twist coming" kind of way, but in the "this is breaking my immersion because I can't believe he'd write something so badly" kind of way.!<
I’m not sure why you’re arguing that >!Rashek would not do those things. Yes he would. The entirety of HoA was about stuff Rashek did to prepare for Ruin that’s probably why Brando thought the red herring would work. TFE ends with Vin ripping out the armbands he carried iirc.!< Really don’t follow this logic at all.
>Really don’t follow this logic at all. Because while >!Rashek did provide things like canned food, survival supplies, and restoring knowledge he suppressed about allomancy, he jealously guarded his position as a quasi-immortal being. You don't turn your best friends into jello monsters and engage in a reproductive genocide if you're just going to hand out all your powers for the first person to think about going on an archaeological dig.!<
The issue is overblown here in two ways: >!One, You can just assume he left the bands for himself in case his old ones got stolen, of which this did happen at the end of TFE. The legend (however fake) is based on the premise that someone who takes them gains his powers.!< >!Two, “Gaining Fullborn powers” is a contradiction in the established Scadrial magic systems up until that point. Unkeyed metalminds had not yet been fully fleshed out, leaving the reader to be suspicious about what they’re really for. To the characters themselves, they never met Rashek, and Sazed would be no help as he’s conflicted by two shards.!< The characters don’t have the same view that we as readers do. I still disagree that it doesn’t work. Works just fine as something you’re supposed to suspect.
>The characters don’t have the same view that we as readers do. I still disagree that it doesn’t work. Works just fine as something you’re supposed to suspect. I'll just have to agree to disagree. Thank you for sharing your perspective 🙂
Would really hate if he rewrote the novel. Elantris on the other hand I think would make a great rewrite. I’ve always felt the story of Elantris is a 5/5 but the writing is a 2.5/5
Somehow, I totally agree despite Elantris being probably in my top 3 Cosmere books. I would love for him to do a rewrite at his current skill level. Especially if he made the book longer. I'll take anything I can get for more Elantris at this point.
That makes me feel better as I really didn’t enjoy it and thought I’d hate second era, but then ended up falling in love with it and love era II overall, but this actually makes me feel a bit less crazy, as I’ve had strong thoughts about it being weak / confused why people like it. To be fair, most people don’t like Elantris and I freaking love it, so I don’t think my take is definitive, this stuff is personal.
Same. For Mistborn era 2 I find each book gets better than the last. Alloy is definitely his weakest cosmere book
I would definitely place SoS and BoM above AoL and TLM. TLM was one of the first big Cosmere-crossover books and I feel like it only half-hit the mark for what a crossover book should be delivering. Especially given how little we know about >!the Aethers!<, some of the characters introduced in TLM feel more like plot devices. That said, all the fight scenes in TLM are 10/10.
I enjoy Alloy on rereads but it’s the only Sanderson book that took me multiple tries to actually read
Same. I hated it and haven’t even read the rest of era 2, but this makes me think that I definitely need to.
I abandoned it the first two times I tried, finally decided to go further, and it gets steadily and steadily better. It made some decisions I hated initially, but paid off amazingly well, and the ending… well, it’s a Sanderson ending lol. It’s worth it. So, I feel you, but definitely recommend it, even if Waxes annoying personality is annoying you - even that has payoff (it hits some comedic gold later
It's not even the worst Wax and Wayne book.
I know this isn’t the most popular take, but I’d say The Lost Metal is by far the worst of Era 2, and possibly Sanderson’s worst overall
I have been on the fence about TLM. I think it suffers from the hype around it. Shadows of Self and The Bands of Mourning are some of the best novels Sanderson has put out there. The final book had a thought couple of acts to follow up. It also was the first book the Brandon completely went gloves off on in terms of the Cosmere connectivity. And that’s been a touchy point among fans. I know a lot of us here are for that, but there are other fans that aren’t aware/don’t enjoy that type of shared universe. Personally I enjoyed it, but I think there were some parts in the middle that dragged. I’m on the fence about >!the ghosrbloods crew saving the day.!< There is a magic to seeing the on-world groups save the day and it’s more narratively satisfying, but I think their inclusion was done well. Above all, the ending was amazing.
I’m a big Cosmere person, and I get hyped whenever there’s extra Cosmere connectivity going on, but in the Lost Metal it felt out of place. Like he started the series with one story in mind and then veered off to Shard stuff
And there was this massive hype about the Bands and how it was created, and effectively nothing happened in TLM with the Bands except that it was mysteriously drained and then given to the Southerners. No new development on anything else. That was my biggest disappointment of that hook.
I waited four books for resolution on Bloody Tan and that’s still a mystery too
> I think it suffers from the hype around it Maybe, but I think this detracts from valid complaints, too. I don't think TLM had any twists I didn't see coming. Which is crazy for me for a Sanderson novel. Usually, if there are twists, I don't see them at all or at minimum not the whole thing. TLM felt like it had the most cliches of any Sanderson novel. Telsin was a letdown, multiple times, IMO. I guess this could be a criticism for the series, but TLM is the nail in the coffin. She felt like she was purely there for plot contrivances and never seemed particularly competent. We also have the scene where Wax 'overhears' them talking about their plans for some reason that are already laid, one of the biggest cliches in media that exists and I was super surprised to see turn up here. ***Stuff with Sazed feels like he's changing too quickly when we have examples like Ati holding out against Shardic intent for thousands of years. This is subject to more knowledge/information, could be more things making it happen. The ending felt forced and like literally anything could have happened and 'worked', as opposed to feeling like the logical ending or a twist or puzzle pieces fitting together (and these are how I usually feel with Sanderson's writing). ***Wayne had a few dialogue moments I thought were out of character. Like he wouldn't just come out and say certain things from his traits and characterization we've seen previously. Could be the time gap and it's supposed to be him changing/maturing, but him opening up multiple times at the drop of a dime felt super out of character for me. Other times both Wax and Wayne felt a bit caricature(y) with their traits and dialogue. Edit: Super late edit, but I wanted to clarify that the points I made that I put asterisks (***) next to are very minor complaints, or even things that could be possibly clarified down the line or we don't have enough information about. These types of complaints are a good example of what my maximum level of usual complaints look like in other Sanderson books: Super minor, makes sense in later books, more subjective opinions, or completely non-existent.
I definitely agree with you on the twists and Telsin. I was hoping for some big family showdown, especially considering how things were left at the end of Bands of Mourning. And her being incompetent isn’t necessarily bad, but I think it was taken too far. And the Tower twist was pretty obvious. The Wayne dialogue I can forgive though because there were what, like 20 years between the Bands and TLM?
I think it was 6 years
I thought the cheesiest Wax and Wayne moment in The Lost Metal was >!in the last fight against their doppelgangers, one of them says "switch?" and they switch weapons for a moment. That's a really dumb idea when fighting for your lives and trying to save the world. It's the kind of cheesy thing that works in action movies that have a light tone, but it felt out of place for the tone of the Wax and Wayne series by that point. In comparison, the scene in Bands of Mourning where Wax and Wayne rattle off various strategems like "Spoiled Tomato" worked perfectly for me.!<
I agree. I was enjoying it until we got to the end, and then I was kinda left with a "is that it?" feeling. The climax simply fell flat for me. On the other hand I loved Alloy of Law.
Totally agree. Recently read The Lost Metal and found it strangely both rushed and dragged out. Easily the weakest Mistborn book by far imo. Still good but weak. It just felt like a big setup for the Cosmere rather than a conclusion to the Wax and Wayne era. I was especially disappointed in >!the handling of Wayne’s death. It sort of just happened. I didn’t really feel any “emotional hit” so to speak, and this is from someone who cries when characters do something nice to each other let alone one of them dying!<
100%
Brando says this when Well of Ascension is right there. And to be clear, the weakest Cosmere book is still leagues better than most fantasy books out there. But for me, Alloy of Law is easily one of the most fun Cosmere books, and leagues better writing than a lot of the early stuff.
I really don't understand the hate for well of ascension, and I think he's completely right about alloy of law being a mediocre book.
i agree. well of ascension was one of my faves, and allow of law is probably one i like the least
White Sand graphic novel
I just finished re-listening to Alloy of Law yesterday. Honestly - I think it is great. It moves fast.
Brandon is a grown man and he can do whatever he wants, but I really have zero interest in a rewrite of Alloy of Law (nor in a novelisation of White Sand for that matter), even if I agree that it might be his weakest book, at least in the Cosmere. It's hard to complain about Brandon's output, but i general I have no interest in writers spending time rewriting books they've already wrote.
Well that's okay, he can be wrong sometimes
I read AoL in 2012 right after finishing the original trilogy and it definitely left me wanting more. Without those and the itch they started I wouldn’t have read WoK which is (to me) still the best book he’s written. I love AoL.
It's actually my favorite of Era 2!
This is a shocking take. The action in Alloy made me change my opinion on Brandon’s ability to write action. The plot was clever enough, hints of a bigger mystery…
I’m in a different boat, after finishing Mistborn Era 1 it was refreshing to not have such a heavy doom and gloom book. I enjoyed the intro to the new world with a bit more of a light hearted tone. Not everyone agrees, but I enjoyed it as a bit of a fresh breath before the heavy stuff sets in again
I vote for Elantris being his worst book (don’t yell at me… “worst” doesn’t mean “crappy”, just “not as good as the rest”). Well, at least of his published, non-prime books. Alloy of Law might be his most out of place book, though.
Literally my favorite mistborn. Brandon is a genius hardworking man but he is wrong lol.
It's fine the way it is. Better to spend time on new works.
I think Elantris as well as both books 2 and 3 of Mistborn era 1 are weaker than Alloy of Law
I understand his self-reflection, but having recently gone through a reread of Mistborn era 1 and 2, era 2 (including alloy) shows much more writing maturity. Era 1 had a number of scenes that felt like “talking heads”, while era 2 had fully formed scenes. I will always love Vin and Elend and Kelsier, but Era 2 fed me in a very satisfying way.
I don't know how I feel about this. Personally, it's definitely one of the weaker ones for me, but I don't think it's so atrocious that it requires a remake. I might prefer the remade version, but I think some people will prefer the original or dislike any greater repercussions it causes to the series's. I think my biggest draw to this idea is that it'll take away time he could spend on another new book. I'd also argue that there is no worst book in the cosmere bc everyone will connect to each book differently. Some fandoms unanimously agree that certain parts, books, episodes, etc are the worst with a few outliers maybe singing their praises. But I feel like every ranking I've seen of the cosmere has been wildly different, and I think that's actually neat how people connect to these books in different ways
I'm reading these for the first time right now and the difference between the first and second books is staggering. Alloy is by far the most "what you see is what you get" of any of his books which deviates really strongly from his normal style of setting up a trail of breadcrumbs for the reader. This tracks for me.
Did he forget about Well of Ascension? Zane or whatever his name is is the worst character in the Cosmere
I actually just read it and I thought it was fine. Light, fast paced, kind of funny, cool use of powers. I think he is being overly critical. I also dont like when authors go back and re-write books. Same with Lucas constantly changing and rereleasing star wars. You made it, you finished it, you put it out, move on to the next artwork. There are some situations where a remake makes sense, but just because you're not totally satisfied with it is imo not a good enough reason.
''I wonder sometimes'' doesn't sound like he's seriously considering the idea to me. I agree with most people here that he shouldn't spend time rewriting an already-published novel before he's done with the Cosmere, but I also feel like we don't need to worry that he'll actually do that.
I think I can understand what he means. Neither era is bad but they are very different, with the magic system being really the only similarity between them. Honestly, that's what made me abandon the Wax and Wayne series at first- how different it felt from Era 1 Mistborn.
I loved Alloy of Law and am constantly baffled by Brandon's insistence that it is his weakest book. Well of Ascension, Shadows of Self, Rhythm of War... these three would be, in my mind, serious contenders for "worst" or "weakest" Cosmere book.
Shadows of Self is my personal favorite of all seven Mistborn books so I couldn’t disagree more.
Had me in the first half, lost me at Shadows of Self and Rhythm of War. With an opinion *that* wrong, I'm tempted to assume I may not give Well of Ascension enough credit
RoW man… after the awesomeness that was oathbringer I really struggled on chapter 856 of Navani does fake music science.
Ah, but may I offer you another 400,000+ words where Kaladin battles depression?
I raise you Venli agonizing over her life choices for 70 pages.
For me RoW is by far the weakest Stormlight entry because of Venli. I can’t tell you how many times I skimmed ahead to see how many pages I had to get through for her parts. The answer was far too often *a lot*. Still loved it for everything else but on re-reads I think I might skip those
Shadows of Self has such an amazing atmosphere to it at least. ROW I felt absolutely nothing to anything at all in it except Adolin
If that's his weakest, then what a powerful author overall, because Alloy of Law was dope.
Did he forget writing Well of Ascension?
he must not have read elantris 😭
From my perspective, his second Stephen Leeds novel was his worst. It was so incredibly predictable.
Alloy is one of my favorites. The lost metal is the weakest of the W&W series and I'd love to see that one rewritten.
What the fuck Brando, I love Alloy, after all the big books I loved a post western that happens in a short time and had a nice conclusion, Wax & Wayne are the most entertainingly fun duo around. Alloy would make a great movie also
Well of Ascension for me.
It's good as is. I'd much rather Brandon focus his energies on new books. I want him to get to the cyberpunk era he's not sure he'll have time to write.
I mean, maybe worst in the cosmere, but overall seems pretty uncharitable. Firefight and Skyward are both weaker novels, imo.
It’s not! I love alloy of law. I had so much fun reading it! IMO elantris is his weakest.
I'm a big fan of the heist style stories where the villain is immortal or invulnerable, and the whole plot is the protagonist finding clues to work out their weakness. *Alloy of Law*, *Final Empire*, and the first Reckoner's book *Steelheart* are some of my favourite Sandersons and the I think the strongest in their respective series.
It was either gonna be Alloy or Elantris as his weakest and Alloy doesn’t have Hrathen saying, “You should know by now that nothing I do is for show.” That said while it’s a stronger story it definitely reads like the “Prime” version. Someday someone is gonna read Elantris 1-3 in order and get real confused about the style jump from 1 to 2.
Something has to be the weakest.
I read Alloy of Law in a single evening while sitting in the hot tub, just absolutely plowed through it. I fully disagree with his opinion on it being his weakest
I loved the entire W&W series
No rewrite, just let it ride.
It's interesting hearing his concerns about having two versions of the same story, when that's exactly what he's doing with White Sand.
I loved alloy of law, I thought it was a fun romp and a pleasant break from the scope of the rest of his work. Short, sweet, fun, and with some of the coolest action I've read from him
I loved alloy of law, I thought it was a fun romp and a pleasant break from the scope of the rest of his work. Short, sweet, fun, and with some of the coolest action I've read from him
He’s wrong
Yeah, it really needed more Steris
Alloy of Law is my favorite mistborn book so that shocks me.
I definitely don’t think Alloy is his weakest. It’s *among* his weaker novels, but honestly before an Alloy rewrite I’d much rather see: - An Elantris rewrite - A proper modern-Brandon White Sand novel I’m willing to bet that Alloy could be fixed by “tweaking” a lot more easily than either of those others (including the existing “tweaking” in the Elantris 10th Anniversary version). Aaaaaand if he’s already tweaking Wax & Wayne stuff anyway… I’d love to see that one scene in Shadows of Self—where >!MeLaan confronts Arabel on the precinct roof!< — changed from using “King James” dialect (which makes no sense in the setting) to using High Imperial.
Good point actually, weird she did that when sando made it a point to have high Imperial be spook speak, why didn't he make more use of that :0
Nah braw, what’s written is done. I loved alloy of law. Great characters and a fun expansion to introduce the rest of the cosmere continuing a great series. No need to rewrite. But, I’d read it if he did.
I think all the mistborn series are his most experimental tbh. Well of Ascension might be his actual weakest cosmere novel cuz you can tell he didn’t know how to write a sequel, Lost Metal’s exposition felt too dump-y for me, a consequence of the first very cosmere involved novel, I agree Wax’s emotions in Alloy of Law feel kind of melodramatic because we don’t get enough of the connection/backstory behind them but I think those are all just cuz he’s trying different styles to see what does and doesn’t stick for him🤷🏽♂️
Wild. I much preferred era 2 over era 1 and it was AoL that hooked me on to that. I guess it's funny how art resonates differently with folk.
Alloy of Law was the first Sanderson book I read. I enjoyed it immensely.
Alloy of Law is my favourite Mistborn book. Also one of my favourites in general.
I'm definitely in the group of people who fell off trying to get into Alloy of Law. It just didn't grab me and I had something else I wanted to read, so I have never continued Mistborn beyond it.
I have no idea why, I absolutely loved it
Alloy is better than Well of Ascension AND Hero of Ages change my mind
Alloy of Law is my favourite Cosmere book (behind Sixth of the Dusk if we're including shorter stuff). It's fun, it's new, it's hilarious, it has great characters and great moments. Wax and Wayne are so great together, they're a pleasure to be with start to the finish of Lost Metal. Obviously Era 1 is grander, Stormlight is 'better', and Words of Radiance is a close second, but there's a joy I found reading Alloy that keeps my coming back to it. It's a diamond in the rough, but I love its shine.
When Rithmatic is right there??? Or Frugal Guide? Or Elantris?
I don’t understand why people hate Frugal so much. Its such a fun book!
Yeah honestly I loved frugal
I adore Elantris - probably my second favorite Cosmere book (First is Way of Kings).
Frugal is great for what it was, which just happens to not be what a lot of diehard Cosmere-focused fans are into. Elantris is easily the weakest. If it had been my intro to Sanderson, I wouldn't have read anything else by him.
It's his only book that I haven't been able to finish.
This makes me feel good because I love and reread era 1 but struggle with era 2
Sanderson and I are really out of sync on this. The two accidents are my favorite Era 2 books. The Alloy of Law spun out of control and became a full novel when he didn’t mean for it to be one. I love it. Shadows of Self was written because he was finding it hard to get back into Bands of Mourning after writing the end of Wheel of Time and Stormlight 2. It may be tied for my favorite Mistborn book. I thought Era 2 got weaker as it went. The Bands of Mourning and The Lost Metal may be more important to the overall Cosmere, but I don’t enjoy them anywhere near as much. And The Lost Metal especially feels…less fleshed out I guess. Like it needed to be longer, but that’s not how long Wax and Wayne books are so it just wasn’t. In hindsight, I wonder how much the Skyward sequels and the Secret Projects stole mental and creative energy away from The Lost Metal.
Is it his weakest Cosmere novel? Possibly. I mean, statistically one of them has to be. But has he somehow forgotten about Steelheart?
Definitely Elantris for me. Nothing happens until the end of the book and the "Sanderson Twist" was kind of a let down compared to his other books.
aye, i bought the box and wondered what'up with the book sizes.
Honestly I love basically all of Alloy of Law, the only part I disliked was when Wax shot the bullet through a (about to collapse) speed bubble, felt like one weird outlier over-the-top anime/wanted moment in an otherwise pretty grounded yet fantastical story.
I liked it. I liked that it was so different from the three books preceding it. It really drove home the “new era” aspect of the series.
I can see how he sees it as his weakest in the sense that it is not a great first book in a series but it is a good standalone as it doesn’t really setup anything for the rest of the era
Wild considering it's the best of era 2 Mistborn. It's like the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies - it doesn't try to seem like more than it is, but it sets a tone and an expectation and *delivers*. I thought *Shadows of Self* did something similar - books 3 and 4 jumped the shark though
I just finished the original trilogy. I feel I need a break. I might jump back over to Red Rising or start Stormlight
I think the idea is cool. Music gets remixes, remasters, rereleases, etc. Films get extended editions, reboots, remasters with bonus content. Books get….? Just rerelease the novel and call it the “definitive expanded edition” or something. Or heck, just a straight up second edition. Textbooks get multiple editions that sometimes contain more comprehensive rewrites.
My brother in Adonalsium you should reread the first White Sand.
I honestly think considering a ground up rework at all is kind of insane, it’s a bit startling to hear he’s put any sort of real thought to the idea. I hate the idea of going back and simply rewriting a book years later. Just doesn’t sit right with me can’t explain it
was that before he wrote skyward defiant? Because I felt like it was the weakest book he ever wrote.
Cytonic would beg to differ
There are way too many comments for me to be expected to read them all, so apologies if this is a redundant notion, but why not pull a full Ender's Shadow, here, giving this 'problematic' piece a restorative rewrite through the eyes of a different character? This would allow for 'narrative rigor' while massaging out some of the rough spots.
I would definitely say that Alloy of Law is fine, decent even, definitely not the weakest Cosmere novel. Ignoring the mess that is White Sand, The Lost Metal easily takes the worst spot for me. So many plot threads are resolved in a really unsatisfying way or not at all (>!Southern Scadrians and the Bands of Mourning were set up so perfectly only to be swept to the side and the way Telsin was handled is so painfully lacking, and Waynes deatb honestly lacked any resounding emotional oomph!<), the on-world group being >!sidelined for groups we know much less about, like the Ghostbloods and TwinSoul (we know almost nothing about Aether and his entire character felt like a copout)!<. It just felt like an awkward setup for more Cosmere-aware books to come. I'm hopeful that Era 3 being the Ghostbloods series will handle the inter-series connections with the delicacy they need
Is this mistborn4 or 5? I think i Haven't finished 5 yet but yeah I can see why it's weak.
I agree with his take. I don’t agree that he should rewrite it. It was a decent introduction to a few important characters and led to some much better books. Fortunately because of its nature it’s a quick read and still fun despite its flaws.
With all due respect, he's just plain wrong. That would be Elantris. You cannot tell me that a book where a character that's supposed to be on the autism spectrum but comes off as a petulant bitch is better than the Alloy of Law.
I had initially dropped Mistborn after AoL. I read it right after Era 1 and only got back into it when I wanted something to listen to while walking my dog. Things I loved about AoL coming right off of era 1: Changes to the world from era 1 Allomancers interacting with the technology of a different era References to characters from era 1 (Elendel, Lord Mistborn, Harmony, etc.) Twinborns- explores Feruchemy more than we got in Era 1 and allows for unique combinations of powers. I struggled to connect to Wax as a character initially, likely due to his age and the (very simplified) plot of >!Sheriff retires but has to do one last case after his date got kidnapped!< didn't convince me to want to read 3 more books about him. I think AoL did a pretty good job of being a cool quick story after Era 1 but failed as an enticing first book of a series.
The Alloy Of Law (Brandon’s Version)
I have to say I agree. I loved Alloy of Law, and it kick started a mini obsession with cowboys, but its quality (and to a much lesser degree, the quality of the Wax and Wayne series as a whole) is far lower than most of Sanderson's work. Doesn't mean it can't be loved, doesn't even mean it's a bad novel. Just that the usual plotting and pacing wasn't there. However, I also agree that he shouldn't be rewriting books.
I know he didn't entirely write it on his own but he must have forgotten about Dark One: Forgotten. Alloy of the Law is not even his worse cosmere novel.
Funny, because I consider it the best written in era 2.
Elantris is his weakest cosmere novel and its honestly not even close.
IMO Elantris is easily his weakest overall. Alloy isnt bad though overall. But there always has to be a "worst" book in a series so I don't really see an issue with it even if he does consider it his weakest book
If you come last at the Olympics you're still a world class athlete
That's impossible cuz shadows of self exist
I´m half reading Shadows of Self, so I can´t tell if AoL is the weakest yet, but I can say that i really liked Alloy of Law. I already know the changue genre and I think that help a little, but although cowboys/western is not my favorite genre I like mistery and I enjoyed a lot. A detective AND a cowboy WITH magic powers? YES PLEASE. I liked the mistery and trying to solve it out before Wax (I fail lol), I liked the new exciting combinations of powers using a magic system already loved and the battles. Man, I´am more a sword fighting enjoyer, but Wax and his gunfinghts are sooo cool. Not every history have to be about saving the world and I enjoyed a lower stakes history, like I was reading one of that popular series about a cool character that you can see in the newspaper of the book. Could be better? yeah, maybe. I´m liking Steris and Wayne much more in the Shadows of Self and i am barely half of the book, but my point stands. Even if I haven´t read all cosmere and I don´t know if it is the weakest, i think Allow of Law is good and he shouldn´t waste time rewriting. I prefer more original historys or he writing Mistborn Era 3/Stormlight Archive