thats were things are murky, walt did poison a child and he was a first shocked at todd for shooting that kid it, but did get over it quickly and even promoted todd shortly after
From the limited details about it, it seems that walt could definitely have killed brock if he wanted to so I would say that what gus did with kids was quite a bit worse.
See, I’m not 100% convinced that Gus actually would kill a child. He tells Walt he will kill his family including his infant daughter, but he might just be trying to put the fear of Gus into his heart so he will stay out of his way
As far as what we know about how Gus operates, CCIIW, there’s no reason to believe he was simply making an empty threat. We know he’s a sadist who tortured animals and has gotten innocent people killed before. It’s heavily implied he secretly ordered the Tomas murder (an 11 year old boy).
Walter appeared to be disturbed by the Tomas murder, and he didn’t intend to kill Brock, even though he gambled with his life which is still repulsive.
Gus actually has no qualms or issues whatsoever with murdering children. He makes death threats to Walter’s crippled son and infant daughter and butted heads with Walter because he took out his two men even with the knowledge that they murdered an 11 year old (it’s been presumed he ordered this).
He poisoned a child who almost died and whistled like nothing while working after Todd shot the 14-year old kid. He would totally shoot a kid if he had to.
With brock he arrogantly believed he had a 100% chance of survival, I'm not convinced he would have done it if he was told that brock could have easily died from lotv.
He was cold about the boys death but he didn't order todd to do it and he never tried to justify it. He even says that "it looked like the boy had no idea what was going on" (train heist.)
At this point though, he believed that keeping Todd around anyway was a net positive and there was zero point in firing him as he was a useful asset.
I’m just saying that if Walt felt it necessary he would do what Gus did. Although in some ways Walt was smarter and could come up with different solutions. Possibly.
I think Gus had less humanity than Walter and would find it easier to justify child murder. For him it was all about the business whereas Walt would sometimes prioritise his relationships/conscience over money.
Walt always had some level of guilt even during his empire peak (see when Jesse gives him the watch) so child murder may have been too much for him.
I don’t disagree. What I will say is that Walt is so hard to read. I’m rewatching currently and thinking of when he was begging for his life (Mike was going to kill him) and went from a coward to straightening his coat and looking deadly in like two seconds. Circling back to Gale I guess.
He’s the protagonist villian of the show. It’s normal to not like him lmfao. What I dont understand is people acting like Skyler is worse than him though lmfao
They think that because she fucked Ted she’s the worst person ever. I’m sorry, but an affair that was bound to happen anyways since Walt had obviously pulled away from her because he was too busy feeding his ego (and Marie, not saying this was right, pushed Skyler into the direction of having said affair) is not the worst thing when your husband is working up to becoming a meth kingpin.
It was an affair. They were still married and Skyler didn’t really wanna be separated or be with Ted. She cheated to get back at him. Pretty sure she says this.
She doesn’t say it outright. I think pissing off walt/trying to get him to leave was definitely a factor, for sure. But by that point Skylar had been very explicit in wanting a divorce and Walt refused. The only reason he was still in the house was because he refused to leave and she wouldn’t go to the cops (her main reason for not telling the cops is junior can’t find out, which I think is a colossally stupid reason, but hey she’s a mom I kinda get it). Fucking Ted was an escape from her life which was spiraling apart. Not an affair imo even though yes they were (legally) married
If they’re still legally married, it is considered an affair. Walter ended up signing the divorce papers and Skyler never turned them in. She wasn’t as serious about separating as she thought. It was simply to get back at Walt.
I disagree with your second point. She WAS serious about the divorce, very serious. That much was clear. The constant lies she knew Walt was telling (despite Walt gaslighting her saying she’s crazy) combined with her finding out about the dangerous life he’s been leading is more than grounds for divorce. Yes, they were legally married so yes, it is an “affair”. But life isn’t black and white like that. She was stuck in that house with him, and other than telling the police (which she of course should have done) she felt there was absolutely nothing she could do to change her situation. So she took control over her life in the only way she was able to: fucking Ted. It was an escape from her shitstorm life. I think too many people hate on Skylar just cause she can be a little annoying and a bit naive at points, but annoying is nothing compared to the incredible and constant danger Walt put himself and his family in, not to mention the constant lies he told and distance he put between him and Skylar.
I’m not sure we necessarily disagree. I’m trying to say at the time she first found out everything Walter was into, she probably thought she was serious about leaving him. But when he went ahead, signed the divorce papers, and moved out of the house for good, she declined to turn the docs in and finalize it. She began having second thoughts about Walt and distanced herself from Ted.
Yeah, basically every point I made was made considering what happened in the show up to that point. I will def say she gradually makes increasingly stupid/morally questionable decisions soon after that point. Including scamming bogdan out of the car wash even though yes he was an asshole.
No sane person thinks Skyler is worse that Walt. I'm just tired of seeing statements like "Skyler did nothing wrong" when she very obviously did and "I actually like Skyler" when she was clearly written to be unlikable.
It's tiresome and the posts just come off a some type of overcompensation.
Skyler was also meant to at very least be annoying the writers clearly did her job. Also what she did with the car wash was fucked up. Ya eyebrows may have been a bit of a jerk but stealing his business is overkill
Skyler has done bad things but it always felt like it was a series of isolated actions and not a pattern of awful behavior like Walt. Even then a lot of people who defend Walt either watched the show going in thinking he would be this badass drug dealer kingpin or they just didn’t watch the scene in Felina where he’s in Skylar’s apartment
I won’t act like she’s worse but during the show I definitely didn’t like her, but has nothing to do with who’s worse but rather I want to see the meth king pin make meth and take over everything and wife doesn’t like that
I don't agree that she's worse. I just can't stand the victim crap she pulls. She was an accountant for a murderous meth kingpin. I couldn't give two shits about her infidelity in this context.
I agree he made a series of bad and stupid decisions. He was saved by skyler and sheer luck on multiple occasions
But I just can’t bring myself to hate him. I find his psyche interesting. He has an inferiority complex and a superiority complex at the same time. It’s interesting to see how the two interact
Also, from a purely utilitarian point of view, you could argue that walt ended up doing some good. A lot of those people hurt and killed were career criminals. In BCS, we see the scope of what walt’s actions destroyed
For your utilitarian perspective to work you'd have to ignore the deaths in the plane crash Walt is indirectly responsible for, the repercussions for the airline industry stemming from that, the countless overdose deaths and drug related negative outcomes of the people who abused his remarkably pure meth, the innocent employees at Madrigal and Los Pollos that end up losing their jobs due the bad apples getting exposed due to the investigation and the negative market trends effects thereof.
And you'd have to believe that all the criminals, whether they are the murderous Salamancas and Neo Nazis, to the nonviolent participants like the Lawyer or Daniel who ran the laundry or the Madrigal guy who secured the methylamine, all equally deserve to die to provide the most good for society.
All this does not include Hank and Gomey, the rest of their families, the DEA, the innocent family members of all the victims...
From a utilitarian perspective, Walt did way more bad than good.
I never said that walt’s actions were a net positive. Just that there were some good consequences
Deontologists would say that basically everything walt did was 100% bad, as he was just stroking his ego. But a utilitarian would take a consequentialist perspective. Most consequences of walt’s actions were bad, but there was some good
From a utilitarian perspective "some good" does not mean anything if it is outweighed by the bad. By saying that some good came out of his actions you are indirectly saying that Walt's actions are a net positive.
All of Walt's good consequences gets erased multiple times over by the bad consequences. What you're saying requires looking at all the events in a vacuum.
The first watch through i was much more for Walt. Im rewatching just now, and Am just where Walt has refused to give Jesse his 5million to retire, and i loathe the guy. He went back in his word to make the 737,000, and wouldn’t let Jesse retire. Mike and Jesse should have taken him out as he was unhinged by this point.
walt is undeniably shitty but what surprises me is the sheer number of straight men (hear me out) that watch this show and see walter as a projection of themselves without any reflection towards the entire narrative of the consequences of behaving and seeing the world like walt. like clearly conveyed by the writers.
this subreddit isn’t too bad but some youtube comments are literally quite horrifying.
breaking bad is a great show because you’re furtively incentivized to sympathize with walt until you get slapped in the face with his consequences.
the problem is that some people literally still don’t see it. the amount of people that literally think walt is a victim through and through is crazy. reminds me of the classic fight club debacle.
What's 'straight men' got to do with it. I can't wait til the day people stop judging people based on sexuality, gender and race. The right are bad enough for it, now the left are doing the same. Fuck that. People are people
I say straight men specifically regarding the breaking bad demographic and how that reflected the analysis and reception of the show and its characters.
the left lol. how silly.
the way the show was initially received heavily had to do with its demographic. to not make that connection is ignorant. the reason why the show resonated so well specifically is because it reflected the common dissatisfaction of a middle lower class American man.
unfortunately it had dire consequences when this target audience personally made Anna Gunn’s life a living hell for a few years.
To be fair, I used to see a lot of normal suburban dads with a Heisenberg shirt (the cartoon of him in the hat and sunglasses). Idk, just a funny observation.
Jane fucked around and found out. I don’t sympathize with her. Maybe don’t try to extort one dangerous meth dealer on behalf of your meth dealing boyfriend so you and said boyfriend can go on a heroin binge.
Sorry to frame it that way, but I don’t find Jane sympathetic.
I found the minor players like Wendy to be pretty sympathetic characters.
She did have it coming. She put herself in the mix after Jesse pulled her away from her sobriety. Letting her live puts too much risk on Walt and his family. Can't trust a junkie. It's not like he intentionally killed her. And she didn't give Walt a choice.
Walt poisoning Brock is where I lost sympathy.
Walt did not only let her die so he can keep control of Jesse. Walt let her die because she threatened to expose him to the public, which would lead to his arrest, Skyler possibly losing the house (Per Saul Goodman), and Hank losing face with the DEA. On top of that she's back to using so she couldn't be trusted to keep the secret. She made herself a high risk loose end that needed to be dealt with.
Walter's actions made exposure to the public dangerous, his actions would lead to his arrest, his actions would cause Skyler to lose the house and Hank losing face.
She was a loose end because Walter was making and selling meth.
Okay? Jane is also a loose end that who's only tie to Walt is her short relationship with Jesse. She doesn't have much of an incentive not to fold. It doesn't matter how she became a loose end, it only matters how she stops being one. She's less dangerous dead vs alive.
Yes, but more importantly, if Jesse didn't start a relationship with his landlord who was in recovery then Jane wouldn't have been high or know Walt's situation. Regardless of how she found out she still needed to go out of self preservation. She could have known and didn't tell Walt and more than likely Walt would have saved her.
That's a problem with a junkie. They tend to be unpredictable, which is what makes them untrustworthy and dangerous.
Sure Jane most likely wouldn't have snitched then, but what if later down the line Jesse and Jane break up, and she snitches to get back at Jesse and Walt is collateral.
You can never trust a junkie.
Jane is also an accessory now by being willing involved id doubt shed ever go to the cops, and she does at least have the desire to get clean again, besides Jane isn't dangerous
Well... She'd... Get... Immunity... If... She... Cooperates...
Also, what if she has a big mouth and just spills the beans by accident? Why take the chance?
She didn't deserve to die but I can understand Walt doing it.
Imo however it's better to save her and risk jail time if she does report you as the consequences of killing her (fluke plane crash aside) were going to be awful no matter what.
Jesse's a grown ass man, let him make his own choices.
Because Walt can't let go. He could have easily said f it and allowed Jesse to go with Jane. It's what he wanted and as a grown adult you should respect that, at least enough to not let his gf die.
That's not intentionally killing her.
That is intentionally not helping her, which is a big difference.
Regular people do not have a duty, legally, to help others, generally. Walt did not owe her a duty to help. It's the same reason a person who watches their neighbor down in a pool doesn't get arrested for a homicide offense.
>It's the same reason a person who watches their neighbor down in a pool doesn't get arrested for a homicide offense.
More like you were on your way to save your neighbour, lending him your hand to get him out of there but decide to stop yourself on the last moment and let it happen. Because that's what the scene with Jane is.
Your analogy doesn't work because 1. Walter never intended to help Jane. 2. Walter never touched Jane, he only touches Jesse and Jane happened to roll over. Walter never intended to touch or move Jane, he only wanted to wiggle Jesse awake. 3. Jane created her situation by taking the risk of getting high.
Jane put herself in her own swimming pool, and Walter watched her drown.
He knew how to save her, had the skills to do so (that's why the scene with Holly and the towel is there on the same episode) and was about to do it but refused to do so. He killed her by innaction.
Mike wasn't right. Mike's point was that Walt was wrong for taking down Gus's empire and should have let Gus kill him and his family instead.
Mike was no better than Walt. He's just a lot more popular.
Yes, Walt is a bad and evil person. I don't think they intended him to be likeable.
Bryan Cranston's portrayal of a villian is incredible, though. Was blown away to see him playing Walt after previously loving him as the goofy, loveable, good person who was Hal in Mitm.
He’s probably the least likeable character on a TV show ever. Everything about him is deplorable and despicable. Rotten soul.
What a wonderful actor Cranston is. Damn.
It's just funny when you think about how Gus had been successfully distributing drugs with the cartel since the 80's with absolutely 0 bureaucratic suspicion but then seemingly overnight a high school chemistry teacher and meth addict got him killed in like 5 months.
Thank you! People keep saying that Mike is wrong when he dresses Walter down. Like Walter did nothing to bring down Gus's wrath and practically force him into a position where he was threatening to kill him. From Mike's perspective they've been chugging along for several years, he knows Gus has been doing it for 20+ years, and it all gets blown up in a matter of months because Walter buys into his own hype and wants to be in the "empire business." I know Walter takes on the characteristics of the people he kills, so I like to think he also took on the characteristics of the fly from Fly cause he's just a contaminate that totally fucks up something that was working fine before. Obviously no one has the moral high ground but Gus was objectively better at running a meth business than Walter.
I mentioned this in a previous post, but it’s worth repeating: You don’t have to like him. However, we shouldn't be quick to justify his actions without understanding his situation. Imagine being constantly mistreated and underrated by everyone, including your own family. You co-founded a multi-billion-dollar company, yet you find yourself working as a high school chemistry teacher, where no one respects you and doesn't pay attention to you. Your marriage is strained, and then you receive the devastating news that you have cancer and only a few months to live.
It's a difficult scenario to be in, but he made poor choices. Seeking an easy way to make money to address his ego and years of frustration, he ventured into illegal activities without much planning (with the excuse that he was doing it for kids), simply hoping it would be successful. As things spiraled out of control, he improvised. This is where he differed from Gus, who had two decades to perfect his operations. Walter, on the other hand, was an amateur, driven by emotion, much like Jesse.
Having said that, Walter is a very interesting character though. I found him very entretaining and loved how he cleverly solved things. Disliked him in many ocations. Extremely inteligent guy that in his own way, managed to be a kingpin, druglord and the best meth cook in the world in less than an year.
>You co-founded a multi-billion-dollar company, yet you find yourself working as a high school chemistry teacher
Hey, he's the one who left said company and Gretchen when he got insecure at the woman he liked being of a wealthier class than him. He made his own bed. The reason he's at the point he is in the beggining of the show (minus the cancer) is his fault alone
>constantly mistreated and underrated by everyone, including your own family
I don't really remember any point his family was nothing but caring and supportive towards him pre-season 5 aside from some of Hank's comments which are more teasing rather than genuine disrespect.
Again, i am not justifying his actions. Im stating his state of mind at the moment of choosing the bad road ahead. His feelings of missed opportunity and perceived inadequacy play a significant role in his later actions and motivations throughout the series.
Well, Walter White's family, particularly his wife Skyler and his son Walt Jr., did not explicitly treat him as a loser or a poorly successful man, but there were elements of concern and disappointment about his career and financial situation.
Skyler, for example, is often worried about their financial struggles, especially after Walter is diagnosed with cancer. Her concern about their future and how they will manage the medical expenses and their household needs is evident. While she doesn't overtly disrespect Walter, her practical concerns about money and stability reflect a certain level of disappointment with their financial situation.
Walt Jr., on the other hand, respects and loves his father but is also aware of the family's financial difficulties. He doesn't treat Walter poorly, but his admiration for Hank, Walter's brother-in-law who works for the DEA, suggests that he might view Hank as a more traditionally successful figure compared to his father.
All this contributes to his feelings of being undervalued and underappreciated.
>Walt Jr., on the other hand, respects and loves his father but is also aware of the family's financial difficulties. He doesn't treat Walter poorly, but his admiration for Hank, Walter's brother-in-law who works for the DEA, suggests that he might view Hank as a more traditionally successful figure compared to his father.
He's a teenager. Besides, a DEA agent is way cooler than a chemistry teacher. Nothing to do with father figures necessarily.
>While she doesn't overtly disrespect Walter, her practical concerns about money and stability reflect a certain level of disappointment with their financial situation.
That has nothing to do with her view on Walter.
Okay. Doesn't mean he isn't objectively wrong in all of his assumptions. His feelings exist but they don't mean much when they are so disconnected from what it's actually happening.
Agreed, but Walter doesn't realize or consider this. His ego is so battered that his only desire is to empower it by any means possible. We see this in the final episodes when he says his goodbyes to his son and Skyler, admitting that he did everything for himself because he liked it. It's a rare moment of self-awareness where he drops the pretense of altruism and acknowledges the thrill and power he derived from his actions. His ego, rather than a pure desire to provide for his family, was the primary driving force behind his descent into criminality.
Walter's journey is a compelling study of ego and the corrupting influence of power. Initially, he convinces himself that his actions are for the benefit of his family, to secure their financial future after his imminent death. However, as the series progresses, it becomes clear that his motivations are far more selfish. His transformation from a mild-mannered chemistry teacher to a ruthless drug kingpin is driven by a need to assert his dominance and reclaim his sense of self-worth.
I feel like the writers hamfistedly shoved the Gretchen / Walt plot line in to make him less sympathetic. They were legit surprised at how much the audience loved Walt as the seasons wore on.
Just my opinion. Doesn’t change anything. It just felt like it didn’t fit.
No it wasn't. If your referring to when Walt said "fuck you" to her in season 2. The whole Grey Matter storyline still had a lot of Grey area (no pun intended)
There is that moment when Gretchen calls him on the phone and asks him if he doesnt want to accept the treatment because of what happened between both of them. Wasn't that pretty soon?
That didn't reveal anything we didn't already know. All that scene implied was that there was something romantic going on with them which was confirmed even earlier in S1 E3. It didn't tell us EXACTLY what happened. In fact, no scene in the show did.
Well that was kind of the whole point of his character haha, he just couldn't admit/face the fact that it was about him and his ego too, not just about his family, that it obviously just became a way for him to justify everything... In the very end he was honest about it to Skyler and imo that was why he was able to die in peace (at least mentally). The people who love and still defend Walt and everything he's ever done are the ones who missed the whole point of the show (I mean I loved to watch him as a character but was he a good person/were his actions always defendable, hell no lol)..
Walt is a bad guy, but if you're talking about him not accepting Elliot money know this, Walt intentions weren't to save himself, he wanted to leave enough money for his family after his passing, if he just got the money for the treatment there's no assurance that he would've lived.
So he either sell meth, try to treat cancer with no assurance that'd he survive but leave some money after passing or accept help, and leaving his family future in jeopardy
But somehow, at certain points.. I was still rooting for him. Yes his ego screwed him but at the very end he pretty well made up for it the best way he possibly could.
I hear yah. Up until season 4 I was all with Walt and even after that I could maybe understand that he wanted to provide for his family. The second I realized he was the one who poisoned Brock I was so done. There was no undoing that. And the fact he had Jesse (and myself) convinced that he couldn’t possibly have done that.
I think he was really misunderstood. He was only doing it for his family at first and he was genuine you could tell. I think he was easily influenced by other people, money and power got the best of him. He was a miserable high school teacher who had cancer, all of this colleagues got to be professors, gray matter was basically stolen from him. He deserved better it’s just outside influences that messed him up. Either way he was the protagonist it’s called breaking bad for a reason but tbh I think Mr. White wasn’t as bad as other characters.
I agree with this. In the first episode I felt kinda bad when his students laughed at him when he had to scrub their tires. But after he messed up his family's life so bad, I understood why he had to be demoralized in the first episode.
that’s pretty much the point Walt is an anti-hero / villain protagonist he’s supposed to be unrepentant to a reprehensible degree and a loathsome human being from time to time
“Your pride is the last thing that should matter”
Then accept that your wife will end up at a teddy’s one day. If you can accept that then you are good
“I genuinely do not like Walt at all.” – G. Fring
“I genuinely do not like Walt at all.” -M. Ehrmentraut
“I genuinely do not like Walt at all.” -Tuco Salamanca
"I genuinely like Walt a little bit..it's complicated " - Jesse Pinkman
I like Gus more than Walt anyway
Gus will sink as low as walt but is a professional l, he's slow and careful and hard working
Gus is worse in my opinion as he would 100% shoot a child if needed which I don't think Walt is ever capable of
thats were things are murky, walt did poison a child and he was a first shocked at todd for shooting that kid it, but did get over it quickly and even promoted todd shortly after
From the limited details about it, it seems that walt could definitely have killed brock if he wanted to so I would say that what gus did with kids was quite a bit worse.
But he wouldn't have chosen to kill a kid outright like Gus would.
idk it seems that theres no low walt won't seep too
He would never kill his family and he wouldn't purposefully kill a child.
See, I’m not 100% convinced that Gus actually would kill a child. He tells Walt he will kill his family including his infant daughter, but he might just be trying to put the fear of Gus into his heart so he will stay out of his way
As far as what we know about how Gus operates, CCIIW, there’s no reason to believe he was simply making an empty threat. We know he’s a sadist who tortured animals and has gotten innocent people killed before. It’s heavily implied he secretly ordered the Tomas murder (an 11 year old boy).
Walter appeared to be disturbed by the Tomas murder, and he didn’t intend to kill Brock, even though he gambled with his life which is still repulsive. Gus actually has no qualms or issues whatsoever with murdering children. He makes death threats to Walter’s crippled son and infant daughter and butted heads with Walter because he took out his two men even with the knowledge that they murdered an 11 year old (it’s been presumed he ordered this).
Yeah but walt didnt seemed disturbed by it for long and even understood the potential benefits for it
I didn't say Gus is a better or worse person, i just like his character more than Walt. Amazing villain.
He poisoned a child who almost died and whistled like nothing while working after Todd shot the 14-year old kid. He would totally shoot a kid if he had to.
With brock he arrogantly believed he had a 100% chance of survival, I'm not convinced he would have done it if he was told that brock could have easily died from lotv. He was cold about the boys death but he didn't order todd to do it and he never tried to justify it. He even says that "it looked like the boy had no idea what was going on" (train heist.) At this point though, he believed that keeping Todd around anyway was a net positive and there was zero point in firing him as he was a useful asset.
I’m just saying that if Walt felt it necessary he would do what Gus did. Although in some ways Walt was smarter and could come up with different solutions. Possibly.
I think Gus had less humanity than Walter and would find it easier to justify child murder. For him it was all about the business whereas Walt would sometimes prioritise his relationships/conscience over money. Walt always had some level of guilt even during his empire peak (see when Jesse gives him the watch) so child murder may have been too much for him.
I don’t disagree. What I will say is that Walt is so hard to read. I’m rewatching currently and thinking of when he was begging for his life (Mike was going to kill him) and went from a coward to straightening his coat and looking deadly in like two seconds. Circling back to Gale I guess.
No, Walt just poisons them and hopes he calculated the dose correctly.
He’s the protagonist villian of the show. It’s normal to not like him lmfao. What I dont understand is people acting like Skyler is worse than him though lmfao
They think that because she fucked Ted she’s the worst person ever. I’m sorry, but an affair that was bound to happen anyways since Walt had obviously pulled away from her because he was too busy feeding his ego (and Marie, not saying this was right, pushed Skyler into the direction of having said affair) is not the worst thing when your husband is working up to becoming a meth kingpin.
It wasn’t an affair, they were separated. Walt was stalking her at that point.
Oh shit you’re right, my bad.
It was an affair. They were still married and Skyler didn’t really wanna be separated or be with Ted. She cheated to get back at him. Pretty sure she says this.
She doesn’t say it outright. I think pissing off walt/trying to get him to leave was definitely a factor, for sure. But by that point Skylar had been very explicit in wanting a divorce and Walt refused. The only reason he was still in the house was because he refused to leave and she wouldn’t go to the cops (her main reason for not telling the cops is junior can’t find out, which I think is a colossally stupid reason, but hey she’s a mom I kinda get it). Fucking Ted was an escape from her life which was spiraling apart. Not an affair imo even though yes they were (legally) married
If they’re still legally married, it is considered an affair. Walter ended up signing the divorce papers and Skyler never turned them in. She wasn’t as serious about separating as she thought. It was simply to get back at Walt.
I disagree with your second point. She WAS serious about the divorce, very serious. That much was clear. The constant lies she knew Walt was telling (despite Walt gaslighting her saying she’s crazy) combined with her finding out about the dangerous life he’s been leading is more than grounds for divorce. Yes, they were legally married so yes, it is an “affair”. But life isn’t black and white like that. She was stuck in that house with him, and other than telling the police (which she of course should have done) she felt there was absolutely nothing she could do to change her situation. So she took control over her life in the only way she was able to: fucking Ted. It was an escape from her shitstorm life. I think too many people hate on Skylar just cause she can be a little annoying and a bit naive at points, but annoying is nothing compared to the incredible and constant danger Walt put himself and his family in, not to mention the constant lies he told and distance he put between him and Skylar.
I’m not sure we necessarily disagree. I’m trying to say at the time she first found out everything Walter was into, she probably thought she was serious about leaving him. But when he went ahead, signed the divorce papers, and moved out of the house for good, she declined to turn the docs in and finalize it. She began having second thoughts about Walt and distanced herself from Ted.
Yeah, basically every point I made was made considering what happened in the show up to that point. I will def say she gradually makes increasingly stupid/morally questionable decisions soon after that point. Including scamming bogdan out of the car wash even though yes he was an asshole.
No sane person thinks Skyler is worse that Walt. I'm just tired of seeing statements like "Skyler did nothing wrong" when she very obviously did and "I actually like Skyler" when she was clearly written to be unlikable. It's tiresome and the posts just come off a some type of overcompensation.
Skyler was also meant to at very least be annoying the writers clearly did her job. Also what she did with the car wash was fucked up. Ya eyebrows may have been a bit of a jerk but stealing his business is overkill
Skyler has done bad things but it always felt like it was a series of isolated actions and not a pattern of awful behavior like Walt. Even then a lot of people who defend Walt either watched the show going in thinking he would be this badass drug dealer kingpin or they just didn’t watch the scene in Felina where he’s in Skylar’s apartment
Say more about the kitchen scene please
I won’t act like she’s worse but during the show I definitely didn’t like her, but has nothing to do with who’s worse but rather I want to see the meth king pin make meth and take over everything and wife doesn’t like that
I don't agree that she's worse. I just can't stand the victim crap she pulls. She was an accountant for a murderous meth kingpin. I couldn't give two shits about her infidelity in this context.
lmfao lmfao lmfao lmfao. 🙄🙄🙄 WTF?
I agree he made a series of bad and stupid decisions. He was saved by skyler and sheer luck on multiple occasions But I just can’t bring myself to hate him. I find his psyche interesting. He has an inferiority complex and a superiority complex at the same time. It’s interesting to see how the two interact Also, from a purely utilitarian point of view, you could argue that walt ended up doing some good. A lot of those people hurt and killed were career criminals. In BCS, we see the scope of what walt’s actions destroyed
For your utilitarian perspective to work you'd have to ignore the deaths in the plane crash Walt is indirectly responsible for, the repercussions for the airline industry stemming from that, the countless overdose deaths and drug related negative outcomes of the people who abused his remarkably pure meth, the innocent employees at Madrigal and Los Pollos that end up losing their jobs due the bad apples getting exposed due to the investigation and the negative market trends effects thereof. And you'd have to believe that all the criminals, whether they are the murderous Salamancas and Neo Nazis, to the nonviolent participants like the Lawyer or Daniel who ran the laundry or the Madrigal guy who secured the methylamine, all equally deserve to die to provide the most good for society. All this does not include Hank and Gomey, the rest of their families, the DEA, the innocent family members of all the victims... From a utilitarian perspective, Walt did way more bad than good.
I never said that walt’s actions were a net positive. Just that there were some good consequences Deontologists would say that basically everything walt did was 100% bad, as he was just stroking his ego. But a utilitarian would take a consequentialist perspective. Most consequences of walt’s actions were bad, but there was some good
From a utilitarian perspective "some good" does not mean anything if it is outweighed by the bad. By saying that some good came out of his actions you are indirectly saying that Walt's actions are a net positive. All of Walt's good consequences gets erased multiple times over by the bad consequences. What you're saying requires looking at all the events in a vacuum.
I cringe at his attempts to lie. It's so obvious and his tone... I guess it only amplifies how big his ego got that he thinks others are this niave.
That’s what irks me the most about the character. His lies.
Bryan Cranston is so good at being bad at lying
I just cant believe how bad he broke
The first watch through i was much more for Walt. Im rewatching just now, and Am just where Walt has refused to give Jesse his 5million to retire, and i loathe the guy. He went back in his word to make the 737,000, and wouldn’t let Jesse retire. Mike and Jesse should have taken him out as he was unhinged by this point.
Im honestly surprised Mike didnt just shoot him so he and jesse can take the bigger payout, they should have been tired of his bullshit at that point,
Mike definitely would've lol. Jesse maybe not so much.
walt is undeniably shitty but what surprises me is the sheer number of straight men (hear me out) that watch this show and see walter as a projection of themselves without any reflection towards the entire narrative of the consequences of behaving and seeing the world like walt. like clearly conveyed by the writers. this subreddit isn’t too bad but some youtube comments are literally quite horrifying. breaking bad is a great show because you’re furtively incentivized to sympathize with walt until you get slapped in the face with his consequences. the problem is that some people literally still don’t see it. the amount of people that literally think walt is a victim through and through is crazy. reminds me of the classic fight club debacle.
Walter is the sigma rizzler Skibidi
Thank you
What's 'straight men' got to do with it. I can't wait til the day people stop judging people based on sexuality, gender and race. The right are bad enough for it, now the left are doing the same. Fuck that. People are people
I say straight men specifically regarding the breaking bad demographic and how that reflected the analysis and reception of the show and its characters. the left lol. how silly.
Not used to hearing people use labels that much outside of people in politics where its used by both sides to further divide
the way the show was initially received heavily had to do with its demographic. to not make that connection is ignorant. the reason why the show resonated so well specifically is because it reflected the common dissatisfaction of a middle lower class American man. unfortunately it had dire consequences when this target audience personally made Anna Gunn’s life a living hell for a few years.
To be fair, I used to see a lot of normal suburban dads with a Heisenberg shirt (the cartoon of him in the hat and sunglasses). Idk, just a funny observation.
Haha I had that shirt when I was 14 lol
It was a good one
Good grief chill out on the use of “literally” you drama queen 🙄🙄🙄
no 🙂
Ah this thread again.
Well that’s the purpose of the show
Yeah. From season 3 onwards i did not like Walt at all. Season 1-2 i can still understand his desparate actions. Mike is right about him.
>!Jane's death!< is the part where I lose all sympathy for him.
Jane fucked around and found out. I don’t sympathize with her. Maybe don’t try to extort one dangerous meth dealer on behalf of your meth dealing boyfriend so you and said boyfriend can go on a heroin binge. Sorry to frame it that way, but I don’t find Jane sympathetic. I found the minor players like Wendy to be pretty sympathetic characters.
She did have it coming. She put herself in the mix after Jesse pulled her away from her sobriety. Letting her live puts too much risk on Walt and his family. Can't trust a junkie. It's not like he intentionally killed her. And she didn't give Walt a choice. Walt poisoning Brock is where I lost sympathy.
I dont think she deserved to die, walt only let it happen so he can sink his claw deeper into jesse
Walt did not only let her die so he can keep control of Jesse. Walt let her die because she threatened to expose him to the public, which would lead to his arrest, Skyler possibly losing the house (Per Saul Goodman), and Hank losing face with the DEA. On top of that she's back to using so she couldn't be trusted to keep the secret. She made herself a high risk loose end that needed to be dealt with.
Walter's actions made exposure to the public dangerous, his actions would lead to his arrest, his actions would cause Skyler to lose the house and Hank losing face. She was a loose end because Walter was making and selling meth.
Okay? Jane is also a loose end that who's only tie to Walt is her short relationship with Jesse. She doesn't have much of an incentive not to fold. It doesn't matter how she became a loose end, it only matters how she stops being one. She's less dangerous dead vs alive.
She was only in a position to blab about that because it's all shit Walt did.
Wrong She was in position to blab because JESSE told her everything.
Yes, but more importantly, if Jesse didn't start a relationship with his landlord who was in recovery then Jane wouldn't have been high or know Walt's situation. Regardless of how she found out she still needed to go out of self preservation. She could have known and didn't tell Walt and more than likely Walt would have saved her.
i doubt she would have done that, she just wanted him to pay jesse what he owned him, turning walt in would have gotten jesse in trouble too
That's a problem with a junkie. They tend to be unpredictable, which is what makes them untrustworthy and dangerous. Sure Jane most likely wouldn't have snitched then, but what if later down the line Jesse and Jane break up, and she snitches to get back at Jesse and Walt is collateral. You can never trust a junkie.
Jane is also an accessory now by being willing involved id doubt shed ever go to the cops, and she does at least have the desire to get clean again, besides Jane isn't dangerous
Well... She'd... Get... Immunity... If... She... Cooperates... Also, what if she has a big mouth and just spills the beans by accident? Why take the chance?
Pretty walts' main concern was to control jesse more, sure shed get immunity but id dount she'd put jesse at risk
She didn't deserve to die but I can understand Walt doing it. Imo however it's better to save her and risk jail time if she does report you as the consequences of killing her (fluke plane crash aside) were going to be awful no matter what. Jesse's a grown ass man, let him make his own choices.
>Jesse's a grown ass man, let him make his own choices. jesse was blackmailed from day 1 by walt, he rarely has a choice
Because Walt can't let go. He could have easily said f it and allowed Jesse to go with Jane. It's what he wanted and as a grown adult you should respect that, at least enough to not let his gf die.
>It's not like he intentionally killed her He kinda did. He was about to put her on her side but stopped himself at the last moment.
That's not intentionally killing her. That is intentionally not helping her, which is a big difference. Regular people do not have a duty, legally, to help others, generally. Walt did not owe her a duty to help. It's the same reason a person who watches their neighbor down in a pool doesn't get arrested for a homicide offense.
>It's the same reason a person who watches their neighbor down in a pool doesn't get arrested for a homicide offense. More like you were on your way to save your neighbour, lending him your hand to get him out of there but decide to stop yourself on the last moment and let it happen. Because that's what the scene with Jane is.
Your analogy doesn't work because 1. Walter never intended to help Jane. 2. Walter never touched Jane, he only touches Jesse and Jane happened to roll over. Walter never intended to touch or move Jane, he only wanted to wiggle Jesse awake. 3. Jane created her situation by taking the risk of getting high. Jane put herself in her own swimming pool, and Walter watched her drown.
Following your analogy, Walter let her drown. Rewatch the scene again. When she starts choking hes about to put her on her side but stops himself.
Right. You can let someone drown. You don't have to save someone (as long as you don't have a pre existing duty). Walt didn't have to save her lol.
He knew how to save her, had the skills to do so (that's why the scene with Holly and the towel is there on the same episode) and was about to do it but refused to do so. He killed her by innaction.
Mike wasn't right. Mike's point was that Walt was wrong for taking down Gus's empire and should have let Gus kill him and his family instead. Mike was no better than Walt. He's just a lot more popular.
What did Mike say about him by the way
That’s the whole point of the show… actions and consequences.
“Baking Bread,” and it’s a story about Walt accepting Gretchen and Elliot’s money and picking up bread making in between chemo treatments.
Story would have ended happily right there if Walt had an ounce of grace.
Yes, Walt is a bad and evil person. I don't think they intended him to be likeable. Bryan Cranston's portrayal of a villian is incredible, though. Was blown away to see him playing Walt after previously loving him as the goofy, loveable, good person who was Hal in Mitm.
TBF even Hal isn’t a good person. He cares a lot about his family, but he’s an asshole like the rest of the family.
Why do you watch it then? He was told he had a few years to live and thinks fuck it. I will live
He’s probably the least likeable character on a TV show ever. Everything about him is deplorable and despicable. Rotten soul. What a wonderful actor Cranston is. Damn.
Well his character is phenomenal, so that's all that matters
It's just funny when you think about how Gus had been successfully distributing drugs with the cartel since the 80's with absolutely 0 bureaucratic suspicion but then seemingly overnight a high school chemistry teacher and meth addict got him killed in like 5 months.
Thank you! People keep saying that Mike is wrong when he dresses Walter down. Like Walter did nothing to bring down Gus's wrath and practically force him into a position where he was threatening to kill him. From Mike's perspective they've been chugging along for several years, he knows Gus has been doing it for 20+ years, and it all gets blown up in a matter of months because Walter buys into his own hype and wants to be in the "empire business." I know Walter takes on the characteristics of the people he kills, so I like to think he also took on the characteristics of the fly from Fly cause he's just a contaminate that totally fucks up something that was working fine before. Obviously no one has the moral high ground but Gus was objectively better at running a meth business than Walter.
"You two suck at peddling meth. Period."
I mentioned this in a previous post, but it’s worth repeating: You don’t have to like him. However, we shouldn't be quick to justify his actions without understanding his situation. Imagine being constantly mistreated and underrated by everyone, including your own family. You co-founded a multi-billion-dollar company, yet you find yourself working as a high school chemistry teacher, where no one respects you and doesn't pay attention to you. Your marriage is strained, and then you receive the devastating news that you have cancer and only a few months to live. It's a difficult scenario to be in, but he made poor choices. Seeking an easy way to make money to address his ego and years of frustration, he ventured into illegal activities without much planning (with the excuse that he was doing it for kids), simply hoping it would be successful. As things spiraled out of control, he improvised. This is where he differed from Gus, who had two decades to perfect his operations. Walter, on the other hand, was an amateur, driven by emotion, much like Jesse. Having said that, Walter is a very interesting character though. I found him very entretaining and loved how he cleverly solved things. Disliked him in many ocations. Extremely inteligent guy that in his own way, managed to be a kingpin, druglord and the best meth cook in the world in less than an year.
>You co-founded a multi-billion-dollar company, yet you find yourself working as a high school chemistry teacher Hey, he's the one who left said company and Gretchen when he got insecure at the woman he liked being of a wealthier class than him. He made his own bed. The reason he's at the point he is in the beggining of the show (minus the cancer) is his fault alone >constantly mistreated and underrated by everyone, including your own family I don't really remember any point his family was nothing but caring and supportive towards him pre-season 5 aside from some of Hank's comments which are more teasing rather than genuine disrespect.
Again, i am not justifying his actions. Im stating his state of mind at the moment of choosing the bad road ahead. His feelings of missed opportunity and perceived inadequacy play a significant role in his later actions and motivations throughout the series. Well, Walter White's family, particularly his wife Skyler and his son Walt Jr., did not explicitly treat him as a loser or a poorly successful man, but there were elements of concern and disappointment about his career and financial situation. Skyler, for example, is often worried about their financial struggles, especially after Walter is diagnosed with cancer. Her concern about their future and how they will manage the medical expenses and their household needs is evident. While she doesn't overtly disrespect Walter, her practical concerns about money and stability reflect a certain level of disappointment with their financial situation. Walt Jr., on the other hand, respects and loves his father but is also aware of the family's financial difficulties. He doesn't treat Walter poorly, but his admiration for Hank, Walter's brother-in-law who works for the DEA, suggests that he might view Hank as a more traditionally successful figure compared to his father. All this contributes to his feelings of being undervalued and underappreciated.
>Walt Jr., on the other hand, respects and loves his father but is also aware of the family's financial difficulties. He doesn't treat Walter poorly, but his admiration for Hank, Walter's brother-in-law who works for the DEA, suggests that he might view Hank as a more traditionally successful figure compared to his father. He's a teenager. Besides, a DEA agent is way cooler than a chemistry teacher. Nothing to do with father figures necessarily. >While she doesn't overtly disrespect Walter, her practical concerns about money and stability reflect a certain level of disappointment with their financial situation. That has nothing to do with her view on Walter.
It all add up to his feeling of: "i could have been successfull and i am not". This feeling gets bigger and bigger as the series progresses.
Okay. Doesn't mean he isn't objectively wrong in all of his assumptions. His feelings exist but they don't mean much when they are so disconnected from what it's actually happening.
Agreed, but Walter doesn't realize or consider this. His ego is so battered that his only desire is to empower it by any means possible. We see this in the final episodes when he says his goodbyes to his son and Skyler, admitting that he did everything for himself because he liked it. It's a rare moment of self-awareness where he drops the pretense of altruism and acknowledges the thrill and power he derived from his actions. His ego, rather than a pure desire to provide for his family, was the primary driving force behind his descent into criminality. Walter's journey is a compelling study of ego and the corrupting influence of power. Initially, he convinces himself that his actions are for the benefit of his family, to secure their financial future after his imminent death. However, as the series progresses, it becomes clear that his motivations are far more selfish. His transformation from a mild-mannered chemistry teacher to a ruthless drug kingpin is driven by a need to assert his dominance and reclaim his sense of self-worth.
I feel like the writers hamfistedly shoved the Gretchen / Walt plot line in to make him less sympathetic. They were legit surprised at how much the audience loved Walt as the seasons wore on. Just my opinion. Doesn’t change anything. It just felt like it didn’t fit.
I mean... the Gretchen/Walt thing was revealed pretty soon.
No it wasn't. If your referring to when Walt said "fuck you" to her in season 2. The whole Grey Matter storyline still had a lot of Grey area (no pun intended)
There is that moment when Gretchen calls him on the phone and asks him if he doesnt want to accept the treatment because of what happened between both of them. Wasn't that pretty soon?
That didn't reveal anything we didn't already know. All that scene implied was that there was something romantic going on with them which was confirmed even earlier in S1 E3. It didn't tell us EXACTLY what happened. In fact, no scene in the show did.
Well that was kind of the whole point of his character haha, he just couldn't admit/face the fact that it was about him and his ego too, not just about his family, that it obviously just became a way for him to justify everything... In the very end he was honest about it to Skyler and imo that was why he was able to die in peace (at least mentally). The people who love and still defend Walt and everything he's ever done are the ones who missed the whole point of the show (I mean I loved to watch him as a character but was he a good person/were his actions always defendable, hell no lol)..
YOU DONT UNDERSTAND. ITS NOT A PHASE.
He did it for his family
Walt is a bad guy, but if you're talking about him not accepting Elliot money know this, Walt intentions weren't to save himself, he wanted to leave enough money for his family after his passing, if he just got the money for the treatment there's no assurance that he would've lived. So he either sell meth, try to treat cancer with no assurance that'd he survive but leave some money after passing or accept help, and leaving his family future in jeopardy
But somehow, at certain points.. I was still rooting for him. Yes his ego screwed him but at the very end he pretty well made up for it the best way he possibly could.
I hear yah. Up until season 4 I was all with Walt and even after that I could maybe understand that he wanted to provide for his family. The second I realized he was the one who poisoned Brock I was so done. There was no undoing that. And the fact he had Jesse (and myself) convinced that he couldn’t possibly have done that.
Do you like Tommy Shelby in Peaky Blinders?
I hate how much part of me can't help by root for Walt but most of me is able to resist
I feel like Walt is every person that gets a sniff of power. It's a pretty realistic turn in my opinion. And yes, that change makes people hate you.
That guys a real jerk :)
I don’t like him either.
Walt is the fucking man
Ugh you're not supposed to like him
Jesus Christ can we get through one day without a generic, oversimplifying Walt hate post? I swear these are made by the same people at this point.
I think he was really misunderstood. He was only doing it for his family at first and he was genuine you could tell. I think he was easily influenced by other people, money and power got the best of him. He was a miserable high school teacher who had cancer, all of this colleagues got to be professors, gray matter was basically stolen from him. He deserved better it’s just outside influences that messed him up. Either way he was the protagonist it’s called breaking bad for a reason but tbh I think Mr. White wasn’t as bad as other characters.
I agree with this. In the first episode I felt kinda bad when his students laughed at him when he had to scrub their tires. But after he messed up his family's life so bad, I understood why he had to be demoralized in the first episode.
Walt is definitely on the unlikable side of the spectrum. At least Tony Soprano was funny and had a soft spot for animals.
that’s pretty much the point Walt is an anti-hero / villain protagonist he’s supposed to be unrepentant to a reprehensible degree and a loathsome human being from time to time
No big deal, Walt’s an asshole. He’s supposed to be unlikeable.
You’re not supposed to like him
“Your pride is the last thing that should matter” Then accept that your wife will end up at a teddy’s one day. If you can accept that then you are good