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She's non-verbal, does he expect her to just suddenly decide to...start talking one day? Granted, it *could* happen, but for right now, he needs to be realistic. Encouraging independence is SUPER important, especially in non-verbal neurospicy kids; do you think hubs might look at it differently if you frame it that way? Or maybe that getting your daughter pottying on her own will take something off his plate?
What is husband doing while she's gated into the playroom? Because I feel like if he was actually watching/interacting with her, like at all, it wouldn't be a big deal to use the bathroom. I get the feeling he's playing video games or something in a different room (but hopefully I'm wrong).
So, I had a job for about two years (recently quit), and I noticed my (autistic, speech-delayed) son was doing much worse during that time period, hence me now being unemployed. And honestly, I think a lot of the reason for his decline was that Dad was very good at keeping the house clean and getting his shit done, but at the expense of actually interacting with our son.
And it's a lot easier to just let him play by himself all day! Kiddo prefers it most of the time, he can largely take care of himself so he's not usually in any danger. There's nothing wrong with a little benign neglect.
But my kid being basically ignored for the 2+ hours between him coming home and me coming home was really bad for him. His attitude suffered, his speech suffered, he kind of regressed in a couple of ways.
I'm not saying you need to be 100% attention focused on your kid at all times! Mine right now is sitting ten feet away from me watching videos on his computer. But it legitimately concerns me (as someone who went through something very similar recently) that dad's daily "Sit near-ish her for two hours while she plays" isn't doing what she needs - especially if he's so dedicated to that also being relax time that he's unwilling to put in the effort to potty train her.
Have you discussed it from the angle that by not working with her on potty training, you guys are holding her back and reducing her personal autonomy? Like it almost sounds like your husband aligns her non-speaking with her intelligence. Yes, she may not be in-line with her typical peers in terms of maturity and physical skills, but does that mean she shouldn't be given the opportunity? If she has the capacity to use the toilet - or really anything that is a step up from her being completely dependent on others to change a diaper for her - should that not be encouraged? Does he not want this milestone for her?
I truly think he wants what’s easiest for him, like today, not in the long term. He also believes she will end up needing to live in a group home. I feel like four is waaaay too young to be able to predict what the future looks like for her.
But again, even if she does live in a group/assisted living situation in the future - does she not deserve every ounce of autonomy she can possibly have?
Its just really sad to me that your husband doesn't view your daughter as worthy of having these small amounts of independence just because she's disabled and its easier to just change her diaper right now.
I completely agree with you, I want her to have as much independence and autonomy as possible. She’s more capable than my husband gives her credit for.
I think you should get to the root of the issue and call him out on being lazy. I think there is a kind but firm way to bring that up and I think at least shining a light on his real hang up might help remove the facade that this reluctance of his is in her best interest.
If you can manage it without throwing up, try walking through with him what he and she would both need to be ready for potty training. By your account, she's ready so you should be able to lead him to the conclusion that it's him that's not ready. Clearly it's just too difficult for him to manage 🎻 and you really just want to know how to support him to be ready to move forward
So I'm in your husband's camp on the group home. (For my kiddo eventually, not yours!) and my is convinced I'm being silly and refuses to discuss it in any meaningful way... I try not to think about it but when I do bring it up it's super isolating to be completely dismissed by my partner about it (he generally just "yes, dear..."'s me and it feels super patronizing) so maybe there's some of that going on on his end? I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt here....
That doesn't mean I don't want to encourage as many independent skills as I can though!
She daytime potty trained around the age your kiddo is now and has been mostly accident free for almost 2yrs with occasional slip ups. (Nighttime is another kettle of fish. She wants to but literally doesn't wake up and honestly I am unwilling to carry a 60lb human back and forth 2x -3x a night and sacrifice already limited sleep for it.)
Even if he's completely right and that does happen, having as many skills as possible will benefit her AND y'all - needing 24/7 toileting care for an adult is hella expensive. Far more so than a supervised living situation. I know that's a super dark/cold way to frame it but it IS true. Would that possibly get thru to him that she's making progress AND this will benefit her and y'all either way?
Is it possible for her to learn the signs for poop/pee or even toilet? Just to allow her to "ask" without anything verbal?
Honestly just sounds like your husband being a lazy pos that can't be bothered to put in a teeny tiny level of effort.
We are working on teaching her to use the toilet sign and the toilet button on her AAC device. From what I have read, children usually learn to request the toilet after they get a certain level of body awareness and competence in going on the toilet, so based on that I don’t know if it’s realistic to expect her to ask yet. She’s my only kid so this is my first time going through this! Anyone with experience feel free to chime in and let me know what’s reasonable!
>Husband refuses and is keeping her in pull-ups with no ability to independently access the bathroom by herself (child gate keeping her in the playroom).
This is neglecting her needs. She is showing you she is ready. He is preventing her from meeting developmental milestones. Neglect is abuse. Phrase it to him like that, see if it helps him understand how wrong this situation is.
Edit to add - I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Potty training is hard enough without your husband standing in the way preventing it.
Could you have your husband talk to either her doctor or her therapist or both? And they can explain to him that she’s showing signs of readiness, especially if she knows to get to the bathroom on her own now. And they can also tell him how it’s doing none of you, but especially your daughter, any favors by not potty training her when she’s clearly ready. It will make it harder to find placement in schools and childcare settings. It will make it even harder, if not impossible, to find the occasional babysitter for a night out. Most importantly, it will make her own life more difficult. Not being trained means it will be difficult/impossible for her to attend social events appropriate for her without one of you also in attendance.
All of this sucks and your husband is wrong
Can you just do it while he’s not there? I potty trained my kid in a week while my husband was out of town. Is there anyway to arrange a weekend where you are 100% in charge and commit to doing the training? Read or browse the oh crap! Book and skip the parts where she lectures you, just skip to the chapter where you actually do it. You throw away all diapers except for pull ups for night time, so after you do it, you can’t go back. You WILL Still encounter accidents, especially in the first month after your long weekend where you teach it, but they are less frequent over time.
Edit to add: does she do sign language? Can she learn the word for potty? Honestly, even with a verbal child (mine has a speech delay) they don’t really tell you the first month or even consistently. It’s a lot of, oh you are grabbing your crotch have you thought about using the potty? Or oh, mommy needs to potty let’s go together (my kid doesn’t like to be told what to do) when you notice they are acting like they need to go. It’s a lot of watching your kid.
I read the book, trained my kid, and then gave my husband and the babysitter screen shots of the “cheat code” or bullet point chapter.
I think there’s a middle ground here that’s fairly easy to implement that’ll save your sanity. Have your husband put her in underwear, and wear pull-ups over them. It’s less mess for your lazy husband to deal with, and still gives your girl nearly the same sensation for building body awareness. Little lady will still feel like she’s pee/pooped in her pants, with much much less cleanup. As she adapts, you and your husband can start taking off the pull-ups that cover them.
I agree with this. My husband got really frustrated with me for not forcing underwear 24/7 because he thought it was delaying potty training, but I couldn’t handle cleaning up 5+ accidents a day. I was exhausted, the whole house smelled like pee, and my child was very resistant to using the potty so it was NOT a quick process (took over 2 years- she’s also got some additional needs). The underwear under pull-ups thing kept me from losing my mind.
My oldest is 3 and also non verbal autistic, his therapist said that sticking to a schedule is basically the only way to teach them besides using aac/pecs and signing. We’ve been using introducing the idea over the last month and have a ways to go but I feel like I’m in the same boat as you, my husband doesn’t help with anything and brushed me off when I tried to talk to him about how he doesn’t have a choice once we really start training.
Sorry I don’t have more suggestions just commiseration.
Stop buying pull ups. Switch to cloth with the velcro diaper covers for times when you would use a pull up. It is better for your child to feel the wetness and will drastically speed up training. It will also drastically speed up your husband's incentive to potty train. Complain if you come home and she is in a wet diaper.
I would call in reinforcements by having the therapists/professionals who are supporting this to back you up. Obviously she seems ready if she's making the progress you describe. Is there any legitimate risk of having her potty train "to early"? I think you're probably right that his motivator could just be laziness but is there any possible valid reason he's resisting the hard evidence before him?
I know with potty training neurotypical kids, if you push too hard too soon you could get a kid who holds in their bowels and causes issues like constipation and encopresis. Are there any additional risks for your kid specifically that could complicate pushing potty training too early? If so, I would gather the evidence that your daughter is not exhibiting the signs for those risks.
>he won’t believe she is until she can ask us to go before she needs to go
That seems like an astoundingly unrealistic bar for a nonverbal child. I mean, pre-verbal potty training children manage to communicate their toileting needs just fine. You can have a potty training potty in the gated area if it's an access issue.
Is your husband generally in denial or ignorant of your daughter's diagnosis, abilities and limitations? Is he under the impression that nonverbal adults are all in diapers?
Can’t he just put a little potty in the playroom and keep her in her underwear? That way she can just go when she needs to.
I think letting her use the restroom is the way to go but maybe this could be a compromise.
When I potty trained my son, I just kept him in his underwear with a potty in our living room and plied him with tons of exciting looking bottled juices and popsicles. He wasn’t speaking yet at 2.5 and would just make panicked noises and point at his crotch, after a few days of pointing to the little potty he began going on his own when he needed to, and then transitioned to the toilet within a few weeks. I’m not saying your daughter will do the same or within the same time frame, but maybe it would give her the sense of autonomy she needs and simultaneously force your husband to be more present when he’s with her.
Good luck mama, you got this.
Maybe you can ask him to do it for you? Like it’s a favor to you and not for her. Because you and he have differing opinions on what is good for her. I know it’s stupid and ridiculous, but maybe if it’s phrased that way he’ll be less resistant. Like “I worked really hard last week and I don’t want to have taken the week off for no reason- especially since if I don’t continue I’ll have to take more time off in the future.” And maybe you give him a schedule. Like “please take her at 2:30, 3:00 etc”. He just seems super lazy about it and I am so sorry you’re on the potty training wagon all by yourself. Good luck though!
I see you said this is your first child and I assume it's also your husband's first, too, so neither of you can be expected to know how to teach a child to use the toilet
Children, even typical ones, do not ask to use the toilet before they're potty trained. That is why they have to be potty trained, so that they can learn to respond to bodily cues.
Prior to potty training, a typical child might understand some body cues and do things like hide to defecate or ask to have their diaper changed *after* it's soiled. They might know that other people use the toilet instead of a diaper.
But a 3 or 4 year old is not going to walk up to a parent and request access to the bathroom so they can relieve themselves. It's just not how toddlers work. Even a verbal child will hold or ignore the cues so they can play and then rush to the bathroom and have accidents. He should allow your daughter either access to the full sized toilet or a potty chair in the play room. She's not going to ask, most kids don't ask at 3 and 4 years old.
He's just being illogical and unfair to your kid.
.
He is simply wrong. My best friend from college has a nonverbal autistic sister and she potty trained at about this age. She wasn't verbal until her teen years - does your husband expect your daughter to have to be in pullups until then if she can't speak until then? Bullshit. This is bordering on neglect. Can you call him out on this? How would he react to being told that his behavior is bordering on abuse/neglect?
my son potty trained at 2½ before he could ask to go, because i gave him the means to not have to ask. i don't think it's so much that he doesn't want to clean up accidents - because that could be addressed by taking her to the toilet regularly before she has the chance to have an accident - as it is about him not wanting to have to get up off his duff and put the phone down to parent his child. same reason he's looking for excuses to send her to a group home. she doesn't sound like she's low-functioning enough to need that level of support.
I agree with you mostly, but my daughter hasn’t completely made the connection about how to relax and let the pee go when she’s on the toilet/potty. She gets it right sometimes, but then sometimes pees soon after sitting on the toilet. So frequent trips are not going to prevent all accidents at this point.
Real talk: he does this or you'll both sit down and look for room into the household budget for a mother's helper to cover the hours you aren't at home with kid. First thing you might cut? Subscription services. Whatever non essential vices he has.
It's time to play "step up or give up".
P.S. he also gets to be accountable for his participation by the OT/PT staff you're probably the only one complying with. He gets to go to whatever weekly therapies with kiddo, and make progress reports.
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She's non-verbal, does he expect her to just suddenly decide to...start talking one day? Granted, it *could* happen, but for right now, he needs to be realistic. Encouraging independence is SUPER important, especially in non-verbal neurospicy kids; do you think hubs might look at it differently if you frame it that way? Or maybe that getting your daughter pottying on her own will take something off his plate?
What is husband doing while she's gated into the playroom? Because I feel like if he was actually watching/interacting with her, like at all, it wouldn't be a big deal to use the bathroom. I get the feeling he's playing video games or something in a different room (but hopefully I'm wrong).
He’s sitting in the playroom browsing his phone or reading a book while she plays with her toys.
So, I had a job for about two years (recently quit), and I noticed my (autistic, speech-delayed) son was doing much worse during that time period, hence me now being unemployed. And honestly, I think a lot of the reason for his decline was that Dad was very good at keeping the house clean and getting his shit done, but at the expense of actually interacting with our son. And it's a lot easier to just let him play by himself all day! Kiddo prefers it most of the time, he can largely take care of himself so he's not usually in any danger. There's nothing wrong with a little benign neglect. But my kid being basically ignored for the 2+ hours between him coming home and me coming home was really bad for him. His attitude suffered, his speech suffered, he kind of regressed in a couple of ways. I'm not saying you need to be 100% attention focused on your kid at all times! Mine right now is sitting ten feet away from me watching videos on his computer. But it legitimately concerns me (as someone who went through something very similar recently) that dad's daily "Sit near-ish her for two hours while she plays" isn't doing what she needs - especially if he's so dedicated to that also being relax time that he's unwilling to put in the effort to potty train her.
What a surprise!
Have you discussed it from the angle that by not working with her on potty training, you guys are holding her back and reducing her personal autonomy? Like it almost sounds like your husband aligns her non-speaking with her intelligence. Yes, she may not be in-line with her typical peers in terms of maturity and physical skills, but does that mean she shouldn't be given the opportunity? If she has the capacity to use the toilet - or really anything that is a step up from her being completely dependent on others to change a diaper for her - should that not be encouraged? Does he not want this milestone for her?
I truly think he wants what’s easiest for him, like today, not in the long term. He also believes she will end up needing to live in a group home. I feel like four is waaaay too young to be able to predict what the future looks like for her.
But again, even if she does live in a group/assisted living situation in the future - does she not deserve every ounce of autonomy she can possibly have? Its just really sad to me that your husband doesn't view your daughter as worthy of having these small amounts of independence just because she's disabled and its easier to just change her diaper right now.
I completely agree with you, I want her to have as much independence and autonomy as possible. She’s more capable than my husband gives her credit for.
I think you should get to the root of the issue and call him out on being lazy. I think there is a kind but firm way to bring that up and I think at least shining a light on his real hang up might help remove the facade that this reluctance of his is in her best interest.
If you can manage it without throwing up, try walking through with him what he and she would both need to be ready for potty training. By your account, she's ready so you should be able to lead him to the conclusion that it's him that's not ready. Clearly it's just too difficult for him to manage 🎻 and you really just want to know how to support him to be ready to move forward
I gagged reading this lol. But. Sometimes we have to do hard things for our kids!
So I'm in your husband's camp on the group home. (For my kiddo eventually, not yours!) and my is convinced I'm being silly and refuses to discuss it in any meaningful way... I try not to think about it but when I do bring it up it's super isolating to be completely dismissed by my partner about it (he generally just "yes, dear..."'s me and it feels super patronizing) so maybe there's some of that going on on his end? I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt here.... That doesn't mean I don't want to encourage as many independent skills as I can though! She daytime potty trained around the age your kiddo is now and has been mostly accident free for almost 2yrs with occasional slip ups. (Nighttime is another kettle of fish. She wants to but literally doesn't wake up and honestly I am unwilling to carry a 60lb human back and forth 2x -3x a night and sacrifice already limited sleep for it.) Even if he's completely right and that does happen, having as many skills as possible will benefit her AND y'all - needing 24/7 toileting care for an adult is hella expensive. Far more so than a supervised living situation. I know that's a super dark/cold way to frame it but it IS true. Would that possibly get thru to him that she's making progress AND this will benefit her and y'all either way?
Is it possible for her to learn the signs for poop/pee or even toilet? Just to allow her to "ask" without anything verbal? Honestly just sounds like your husband being a lazy pos that can't be bothered to put in a teeny tiny level of effort.
We are working on teaching her to use the toilet sign and the toilet button on her AAC device. From what I have read, children usually learn to request the toilet after they get a certain level of body awareness and competence in going on the toilet, so based on that I don’t know if it’s realistic to expect her to ask yet. She’s my only kid so this is my first time going through this! Anyone with experience feel free to chime in and let me know what’s reasonable!
That makes total sense! It would be hard to ask if you didn't know you needed to go!
Another option is picture exchange cards so she could either point to a picture of the potty. Or hand him the potty card when she needs to go
>Husband refuses and is keeping her in pull-ups with no ability to independently access the bathroom by herself (child gate keeping her in the playroom). This is neglecting her needs. She is showing you she is ready. He is preventing her from meeting developmental milestones. Neglect is abuse. Phrase it to him like that, see if it helps him understand how wrong this situation is. Edit to add - I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Potty training is hard enough without your husband standing in the way preventing it.
This is exactly what I was thinking. This is neglect.
Could you have your husband talk to either her doctor or her therapist or both? And they can explain to him that she’s showing signs of readiness, especially if she knows to get to the bathroom on her own now. And they can also tell him how it’s doing none of you, but especially your daughter, any favors by not potty training her when she’s clearly ready. It will make it harder to find placement in schools and childcare settings. It will make it even harder, if not impossible, to find the occasional babysitter for a night out. Most importantly, it will make her own life more difficult. Not being trained means it will be difficult/impossible for her to attend social events appropriate for her without one of you also in attendance.
All of this sucks and your husband is wrong Can you just do it while he’s not there? I potty trained my kid in a week while my husband was out of town. Is there anyway to arrange a weekend where you are 100% in charge and commit to doing the training? Read or browse the oh crap! Book and skip the parts where she lectures you, just skip to the chapter where you actually do it. You throw away all diapers except for pull ups for night time, so after you do it, you can’t go back. You WILL Still encounter accidents, especially in the first month after your long weekend where you teach it, but they are less frequent over time. Edit to add: does she do sign language? Can she learn the word for potty? Honestly, even with a verbal child (mine has a speech delay) they don’t really tell you the first month or even consistently. It’s a lot of, oh you are grabbing your crotch have you thought about using the potty? Or oh, mommy needs to potty let’s go together (my kid doesn’t like to be told what to do) when you notice they are acting like they need to go. It’s a lot of watching your kid. I read the book, trained my kid, and then gave my husband and the babysitter screen shots of the “cheat code” or bullet point chapter.
I think there’s a middle ground here that’s fairly easy to implement that’ll save your sanity. Have your husband put her in underwear, and wear pull-ups over them. It’s less mess for your lazy husband to deal with, and still gives your girl nearly the same sensation for building body awareness. Little lady will still feel like she’s pee/pooped in her pants, with much much less cleanup. As she adapts, you and your husband can start taking off the pull-ups that cover them.
I agree with this. My husband got really frustrated with me for not forcing underwear 24/7 because he thought it was delaying potty training, but I couldn’t handle cleaning up 5+ accidents a day. I was exhausted, the whole house smelled like pee, and my child was very resistant to using the potty so it was NOT a quick process (took over 2 years- she’s also got some additional needs). The underwear under pull-ups thing kept me from losing my mind.
My oldest is 3 and also non verbal autistic, his therapist said that sticking to a schedule is basically the only way to teach them besides using aac/pecs and signing. We’ve been using introducing the idea over the last month and have a ways to go but I feel like I’m in the same boat as you, my husband doesn’t help with anything and brushed me off when I tried to talk to him about how he doesn’t have a choice once we really start training. Sorry I don’t have more suggestions just commiseration.
Teach her potty signs!
Stop buying pull ups. Switch to cloth with the velcro diaper covers for times when you would use a pull up. It is better for your child to feel the wetness and will drastically speed up training. It will also drastically speed up your husband's incentive to potty train. Complain if you come home and she is in a wet diaper.
I would call in reinforcements by having the therapists/professionals who are supporting this to back you up. Obviously she seems ready if she's making the progress you describe. Is there any legitimate risk of having her potty train "to early"? I think you're probably right that his motivator could just be laziness but is there any possible valid reason he's resisting the hard evidence before him? I know with potty training neurotypical kids, if you push too hard too soon you could get a kid who holds in their bowels and causes issues like constipation and encopresis. Are there any additional risks for your kid specifically that could complicate pushing potty training too early? If so, I would gather the evidence that your daughter is not exhibiting the signs for those risks. >he won’t believe she is until she can ask us to go before she needs to go That seems like an astoundingly unrealistic bar for a nonverbal child. I mean, pre-verbal potty training children manage to communicate their toileting needs just fine. You can have a potty training potty in the gated area if it's an access issue. Is your husband generally in denial or ignorant of your daughter's diagnosis, abilities and limitations? Is he under the impression that nonverbal adults are all in diapers?
Hide the pull-ups.
Can’t he just put a little potty in the playroom and keep her in her underwear? That way she can just go when she needs to. I think letting her use the restroom is the way to go but maybe this could be a compromise. When I potty trained my son, I just kept him in his underwear with a potty in our living room and plied him with tons of exciting looking bottled juices and popsicles. He wasn’t speaking yet at 2.5 and would just make panicked noises and point at his crotch, after a few days of pointing to the little potty he began going on his own when he needed to, and then transitioned to the toilet within a few weeks. I’m not saying your daughter will do the same or within the same time frame, but maybe it would give her the sense of autonomy she needs and simultaneously force your husband to be more present when he’s with her. Good luck mama, you got this.
Maybe you can ask him to do it for you? Like it’s a favor to you and not for her. Because you and he have differing opinions on what is good for her. I know it’s stupid and ridiculous, but maybe if it’s phrased that way he’ll be less resistant. Like “I worked really hard last week and I don’t want to have taken the week off for no reason- especially since if I don’t continue I’ll have to take more time off in the future.” And maybe you give him a schedule. Like “please take her at 2:30, 3:00 etc”. He just seems super lazy about it and I am so sorry you’re on the potty training wagon all by yourself. Good luck though!
I see you said this is your first child and I assume it's also your husband's first, too, so neither of you can be expected to know how to teach a child to use the toilet Children, even typical ones, do not ask to use the toilet before they're potty trained. That is why they have to be potty trained, so that they can learn to respond to bodily cues. Prior to potty training, a typical child might understand some body cues and do things like hide to defecate or ask to have their diaper changed *after* it's soiled. They might know that other people use the toilet instead of a diaper. But a 3 or 4 year old is not going to walk up to a parent and request access to the bathroom so they can relieve themselves. It's just not how toddlers work. Even a verbal child will hold or ignore the cues so they can play and then rush to the bathroom and have accidents. He should allow your daughter either access to the full sized toilet or a potty chair in the play room. She's not going to ask, most kids don't ask at 3 and 4 years old. He's just being illogical and unfair to your kid. .
She's non verbal. What if she doesn't ask until 18yo? Half kidding, obviously, but WTF husband?
He is simply wrong. My best friend from college has a nonverbal autistic sister and she potty trained at about this age. She wasn't verbal until her teen years - does your husband expect your daughter to have to be in pullups until then if she can't speak until then? Bullshit. This is bordering on neglect. Can you call him out on this? How would he react to being told that his behavior is bordering on abuse/neglect?
my son potty trained at 2½ before he could ask to go, because i gave him the means to not have to ask. i don't think it's so much that he doesn't want to clean up accidents - because that could be addressed by taking her to the toilet regularly before she has the chance to have an accident - as it is about him not wanting to have to get up off his duff and put the phone down to parent his child. same reason he's looking for excuses to send her to a group home. she doesn't sound like she's low-functioning enough to need that level of support.
I agree with you mostly, but my daughter hasn’t completely made the connection about how to relax and let the pee go when she’s on the toilet/potty. She gets it right sometimes, but then sometimes pees soon after sitting on the toilet. So frequent trips are not going to prevent all accidents at this point.
Real talk: he does this or you'll both sit down and look for room into the household budget for a mother's helper to cover the hours you aren't at home with kid. First thing you might cut? Subscription services. Whatever non essential vices he has. It's time to play "step up or give up". P.S. he also gets to be accountable for his participation by the OT/PT staff you're probably the only one complying with. He gets to go to whatever weekly therapies with kiddo, and make progress reports.
This is good advice, thank you.