Hello and thanks for posting to r/britishcolumbia! Join our new [Discord Server https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB](https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB) A friendly reminder prior to commenting or posting here:
- **Read [r/britishcolumbia's rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/rules/)**.
- **Be civil and respectful** in all discussions.
- Use **appropriate sources** to back up any information you provide when necessary.
- **Report** any comments that violate our rules.
Reminder: "Rage bait" comments or comments designed to elicit a negative reaction that are not based on fact are not permitted here. Let's keep our community respectful and informative!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/britishcolumbia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There's lots of great US groups: American Atheists, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Americans United, American Humanist Association, Center for Inquiry. Their challenges are much greater obviously. We're moreso trying to play offense here so things don't get so dire.
A free society should be governed free of religious ideas with the respect allowing people to practice their religion. Good work on getting this pushed through!
Don't you dare lay this shit on a female God. For starters, there would have been a reliable form of fertility us ladies would never have need of drugs or invasive procedures.
Ha! Okay that makes sense.
I'm coming at it from a "middle aged woman who's tired of their shit" perspective. Had a dude claim gods a woman because everything is so messed up.
Lol wut.
God is the original deadbeat dad.
Easily fixed, and in fact, improved.
“WE keep our land, glorious and free”.
The French and bilingual versions are trickier to fix but not beyond our francophonie. (“Il sait porter la croix” - [the arm] knows how to carry the [Christian] cross.)
Whenever I'm at a hockey game or somewhere you sing the anthem I just leave that word out. There're so many religions now and so many people who don't believe in religion it's a useless word to have in the national anthem
I always like to sing “Thought keep our land….” Doesn’t change the tone or note of the anthem and implies rational and critical thinking are what keeps us glorious and free, not blind faith in a magic sky daddy to absolve us of any progress.
Hey that's so cool. I have nothing against religion. The traditional hurches are well adjusted and have good intentions, some of these newer churches are going way the fuck over board. The evangelicals and other American religions are damn near cults
Jesus often fantasized about torturing his enemies when he returns. He’s not so great.
ETA:
“But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.”
—Jesus, Luke 19:27
Context: Jesus is telling a parable. Any reasonable
interpretation of this parable holds that Jesus sees himself as this king.
The Parable of the Ten Pounds
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Luke 19:11-27 KJV.
Multiple of these "prayer-free" municipalities still occasionally have openings of indigenous songs.
Remember, "song is prayer" (you can find many indigenous teachings that support this) and generally are giving thanks to their creator.
Im all for religious neutrality, as long as it is truly neutral.
We explore the nuance of this issue, and how Indigenous content is a different category as compared with prayer in our report on unconstitutional prayer in BC municipal council meetings:
[https://www.bchumanist.ca/we\_yelled\_at\_them\_until\_they\_stopped](https://www.bchumanist.ca/we_yelled_at_them_until_they_stopped)
Get bent with that stolen land BS. It’s a tired trope and no one gives a fuck anymore. While we could have treated the natives better than we did, we also did a LOT better than most people got during the time period and certainly before. Look at Europe. It’s been traded back and forth more than anywhere else on the planet.
I didn’t do a damned thing to you and I won’t be subject to the white shaming you racists like to do.
Get. Over. It.
Lmao you didn't personally do anything but you, and all of us, are still living on, and benefiting from, land that was stolen.
It's not an accusation, but a recognition. We're only here, with what we have, because of a great theft that happened a long time ago, from a people that were done an immense disservice and whose descendants are still feeling the repurcussions of today.
If you get mad at the thought of having to recognize this fact, maybe you should do some inward thinking on why that is.
Yeah lol all the comments on here are like "yeah fuck em, fuck prayer, church/state blah blah blah..." but then when it comes to opening prayer, indigenous welcomes, honoring spiritual ancestry, etc these same individuals are totally game for that stuff... Like.. I get it Christianity is shitty and triggering, but we can't tiptoe around some asinine half-baked bylaw that says one thing but is really supposed to be read as "no Christianity or non-westernized Islam here please".
If you're actually interested, you should look into *why* we separate those things.
The clear difference is that the ban is about organized religion and it's direct connections to political power (various forms of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, etc). Having an elder give some vague "blessing" clearly has no such equivalence as it's A) not an organized religion and B) has no connections to historic positions of power.
Yeah I get that. I like having an opening prayer from indigenous elders when/were possible.
I don't agree that most First Nations would consider their opening prayers to be "a vague blessing". In smaller community meetings we literally form a circle, close our eyes and listen to a guided prayer.
I don't want to accidentally squash traditional practice with regs that are targeted at the big four.
How bizarre that this keeps coming up in my feed out of nowhere.
Half hour ago, I read about the inauguration of Mississaugas new Mayor with a recitation of the Qur’an and a prayer. Suddenly my feed is full of reports about prayer free neutrality.
The BCHA Research Team will be following up on this matter. We have previously looked at prayer in Ontario municipal council meetings as well:
[https://www.bchumanist.ca/open\_for\_unconstitutional\_business](https://www.bchumanist.ca/open_for_unconstitutional_business)
Yes. In the comment I made, I expressed my appreciation for the representation of the Muslim community in Mississauga. But, I also expressed my desire that any religious expression in the secular sphere be either: Inclusive or nonexistent.
From a realpolitik perspective, the Qur’anic recitation and prayer was probably a deliberate political move.
Regardless, it wouldn’t be fair for some to walk up on that stage either and profess that Jesus Christ is the Incarnation of God the Son, in the same vein that a Muslim can walk up, deny that forthrightly, and express the singular oneness of God through the concept of the Tahwid.
How would either of those groups feel if a Satanic religious group opened prayer before a secular government meeting? Chances are, they would freak. It’s for that very reason that neither should have a say.
It just doesn’t belong in a secular sphere IMO.
If there’s anyway to keep me posted about this I would love to follow.
One of the challenges that emerges is that it is simply impossible to have an inclusive prayer, and as such, the best approach is neutrality. The Supreme Court described true neutrality as abstention, hence, we just don't include prayer in meetings.
One of the other distinctions that should be made is there is a difference between the local government allocating specific time in a meeting for prayer, vs. a resident at an open forum sharing their views. The former would be a violation of the state's duty of religious neutrality, while the latter would be fine, albeit they would likely need to make sure their intervention stayed on topic (i.e. my deity or personal faith inspired me to support/oppose this new housing development).
But yeah, the Satanic example is a strong one. The Supreme Court, in Saguenay, noted that the opposite of prayer was not no prayer, but rather would be starting the meeting with the declaration that there was not god or gods, and this would also violate the states duty of religious neutrality.
We've got a ton to say about this, and reports coming our over the next while. I'd suggest signing up for updates from the BCHA!
We need to go further & enact laws similar to Quebec's Bill 21
> Public servants, including teachers, police officers and judges, are forbidden from wearing religious symbols such as a hijab, turban or kippah while working. The legislation also requires people offering and receiving government services to have their face uncovered while doing so.
Imo that's an unconstitutional bill as it effectively excludes practitioners of some religions from certain workforces. To people in certain religions, the wearing of their symbols is considered mandatory. Forcing them to not wear those symbols in order to hold a job as a public servant is essentially saying "nobody from these religions can work as public servants".
It'd be wrong, and discriminatory. If they can do their job without calling attention to their religion directly through word or act, then I don't care what they wear.
Hello and thanks for posting to r/britishcolumbia! Join our new [Discord Server https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB](https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB) A friendly reminder prior to commenting or posting here: - **Read [r/britishcolumbia's rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/rules/)**. - **Be civil and respectful** in all discussions. - Use **appropriate sources** to back up any information you provide when necessary. - **Report** any comments that violate our rules. Reminder: "Rage bait" comments or comments designed to elicit a negative reaction that are not based on fact are not permitted here. Let's keep our community respectful and informative! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/britishcolumbia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Great. Keep it in church.
I'm so grateful thelat the BC Humanist Association is doing this essential work to keep government secular.
The satanic temple is doing the same in the US. Fantastic organization
There's lots of great US groups: American Atheists, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Americans United, American Humanist Association, Center for Inquiry. Their challenges are much greater obviously. We're moreso trying to play offense here so things don't get so dire.
I read *Center for Inquiry* and was like "I wasn't expecting the Inquisition!".
Sure. But there are also member who don’t think Christmas or Easter should be holidays. Not a factor today but wait 10 years.
Why is Easter a holiday?
It’s when Jesus the Grey came back as Saruman, or rather Saruman as he should have been: Jesus the White.
Good. Religion has no business in government.
A free society should be governed free of religious ideas with the respect allowing people to practice their religion. Good work on getting this pushed through!
Good. People can keep their narcissistic sky fairy and her teachings that none of them follow out of government
Don't you dare lay this shit on a female God. For starters, there would have been a reliable form of fertility us ladies would never have need of drugs or invasive procedures.
Sorry you missed the point here, calling god female is usually meant to trigger the religious weirdos who take it as a personal offence
Ha! Okay that makes sense. I'm coming at it from a "middle aged woman who's tired of their shit" perspective. Had a dude claim gods a woman because everything is so messed up. Lol wut. God is the original deadbeat dad.
Oh lol yeah in that sense I can totally see the frustration, but yeah I think deadbeat dad is a fantastic way to describe whatever they call god haha
Shame on them on the first place… shit heads
Great, let's replace the word God in Oh Canada with Love next!
Easily fixed, and in fact, improved. “WE keep our land, glorious and free”. The French and bilingual versions are trickier to fix but not beyond our francophonie. (“Il sait porter la croix” - [the arm] knows how to carry the [Christian] cross.)
In the original version of the song you just repeated the “Oh Canada” part 2 more times
That's... not an unreasonable suggestion. If it comes down to a god to keep Canada's crap together then we dropped the ball big time.
Whenever I'm at a hockey game or somewhere you sing the anthem I just leave that word out. There're so many religions now and so many people who don't believe in religion it's a useless word to have in the national anthem
I seem to remember in school saying “oh, keep our land…” but I’m probably incorrect
It was just "O Canada".
Fantastic idea.
Thanks. Those are the lyrics I sing!
I always like to sing “Thought keep our land….” Doesn’t change the tone or note of the anthem and implies rational and critical thinking are what keeps us glorious and free, not blind faith in a magic sky daddy to absolve us of any progress.
I replaced it with Please years ago but I like Love better.
Thank god, finally ^^^^…oops
Weird they ever did that.
Hey that's so cool. I have nothing against religion. The traditional hurches are well adjusted and have good intentions, some of these newer churches are going way the fuck over board. The evangelicals and other American religions are damn near cults
The only difference between a "cult" and a religion is market share.
Don't forget the tax exempt status.
Good point. Which I guess means that Scientology is a religion in the U.S., but still a cult in Canada.
Jesus is awesome but His fandom is full of cringe
If modern evangelicals got their hands on Jesus, they'd crucify him again.
Jesus often fantasized about torturing his enemies when he returns. He’s not so great. ETA: “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.” —Jesus, Luke 19:27 Context: Jesus is telling a parable. Any reasonable interpretation of this parable holds that Jesus sees himself as this king.
The Parable of the Ten Pounds 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. 20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. 22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? 24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. 25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.) 26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke 19:11-27 KJV.
Multiple of these "prayer-free" municipalities still occasionally have openings of indigenous songs. Remember, "song is prayer" (you can find many indigenous teachings that support this) and generally are giving thanks to their creator. Im all for religious neutrality, as long as it is truly neutral.
So ban O’Canada song too. Agreed.
We explore the nuance of this issue, and how Indigenous content is a different category as compared with prayer in our report on unconstitutional prayer in BC municipal council meetings: [https://www.bchumanist.ca/we\_yelled\_at\_them\_until\_they\_stopped](https://www.bchumanist.ca/we_yelled_at_them_until_they_stopped)
> you can find Generally, them making the claim does also make the proof.
And which "religion" would that be?
Yeah a bit different when you’re on stolen land. Don’t like it? Leave.
Donate your property
I don’t own property, and also I’m native to begin with 😒
Lmao amazing Edit: fuck I replied to the wrong comment. I do not endorse this dickish comment above
Get bent with that stolen land BS. It’s a tired trope and no one gives a fuck anymore. While we could have treated the natives better than we did, we also did a LOT better than most people got during the time period and certainly before. Look at Europe. It’s been traded back and forth more than anywhere else on the planet. I didn’t do a damned thing to you and I won’t be subject to the white shaming you racists like to do. Get. Over. It.
If people don’t care then whyd you get mad? 🧐
Because you’re accusing people of theft.
Likely cuz it needs to be said every time some one says what you did. Doesnt have to be emotional.
We live on stolen land. Stolen. As in not ours. Not yours. Not mine. Stolen. STOLEN. LAND.
Lmao you didn't personally do anything but you, and all of us, are still living on, and benefiting from, land that was stolen. It's not an accusation, but a recognition. We're only here, with what we have, because of a great theft that happened a long time ago, from a people that were done an immense disservice and whose descendants are still feeling the repurcussions of today. If you get mad at the thought of having to recognize this fact, maybe you should do some inward thinking on why that is.
Yeah lol all the comments on here are like "yeah fuck em, fuck prayer, church/state blah blah blah..." but then when it comes to opening prayer, indigenous welcomes, honoring spiritual ancestry, etc these same individuals are totally game for that stuff... Like.. I get it Christianity is shitty and triggering, but we can't tiptoe around some asinine half-baked bylaw that says one thing but is really supposed to be read as "no Christianity or non-westernized Islam here please".
If you're actually interested, you should look into *why* we separate those things. The clear difference is that the ban is about organized religion and it's direct connections to political power (various forms of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, etc). Having an elder give some vague "blessing" clearly has no such equivalence as it's A) not an organized religion and B) has no connections to historic positions of power.
Yeah I get that. I like having an opening prayer from indigenous elders when/were possible. I don't agree that most First Nations would consider their opening prayers to be "a vague blessing". In smaller community meetings we literally form a circle, close our eyes and listen to a guided prayer. I don't want to accidentally squash traditional practice with regs that are targeted at the big four.
Take that pesky Christians!
To the lions you say?
I wish
I’m cool with this.
Cause free as well would be the ticket.
Thank God.
The earth is healing.
This is great! The christians need to contain their crazy in their churches.
Thank-god! I mean, Hell Yeah!!!
How bizarre that this keeps coming up in my feed out of nowhere. Half hour ago, I read about the inauguration of Mississaugas new Mayor with a recitation of the Qur’an and a prayer. Suddenly my feed is full of reports about prayer free neutrality.
The BCHA Research Team will be following up on this matter. We have previously looked at prayer in Ontario municipal council meetings as well: [https://www.bchumanist.ca/open\_for\_unconstitutional\_business](https://www.bchumanist.ca/open_for_unconstitutional_business)
Yes. In the comment I made, I expressed my appreciation for the representation of the Muslim community in Mississauga. But, I also expressed my desire that any religious expression in the secular sphere be either: Inclusive or nonexistent. From a realpolitik perspective, the Qur’anic recitation and prayer was probably a deliberate political move. Regardless, it wouldn’t be fair for some to walk up on that stage either and profess that Jesus Christ is the Incarnation of God the Son, in the same vein that a Muslim can walk up, deny that forthrightly, and express the singular oneness of God through the concept of the Tahwid. How would either of those groups feel if a Satanic religious group opened prayer before a secular government meeting? Chances are, they would freak. It’s for that very reason that neither should have a say. It just doesn’t belong in a secular sphere IMO. If there’s anyway to keep me posted about this I would love to follow.
One of the challenges that emerges is that it is simply impossible to have an inclusive prayer, and as such, the best approach is neutrality. The Supreme Court described true neutrality as abstention, hence, we just don't include prayer in meetings. One of the other distinctions that should be made is there is a difference between the local government allocating specific time in a meeting for prayer, vs. a resident at an open forum sharing their views. The former would be a violation of the state's duty of religious neutrality, while the latter would be fine, albeit they would likely need to make sure their intervention stayed on topic (i.e. my deity or personal faith inspired me to support/oppose this new housing development). But yeah, the Satanic example is a strong one. The Supreme Court, in Saguenay, noted that the opposite of prayer was not no prayer, but rather would be starting the meeting with the declaration that there was not god or gods, and this would also violate the states duty of religious neutrality. We've got a ton to say about this, and reports coming our over the next while. I'd suggest signing up for updates from the BCHA!
We need to go further & enact laws similar to Quebec's Bill 21 > Public servants, including teachers, police officers and judges, are forbidden from wearing religious symbols such as a hijab, turban or kippah while working. The legislation also requires people offering and receiving government services to have their face uncovered while doing so.
Imo that's an unconstitutional bill as it effectively excludes practitioners of some religions from certain workforces. To people in certain religions, the wearing of their symbols is considered mandatory. Forcing them to not wear those symbols in order to hold a job as a public servant is essentially saying "nobody from these religions can work as public servants". It'd be wrong, and discriminatory. If they can do their job without calling attention to their religion directly through word or act, then I don't care what they wear.