In this case, the police has arrested 3 suspects.
As for preventing it, there are definitely things the police can do, but mostly they are limited by factors that are (partly) out of their control (no political vision or will, shit organisation across 6 police zones, not enough prison places, leniency from the judiciary, lack of funding, better social support for at risk youths to avoid them sliding into crime, more community support…). All stuff that certainly should be improved, but this being Brussels, I’m not holding my breath.
You bet,
Even though i've had a degree people don't imagine what poor belgian born have to go through if they don't come from rich families to get to that. I won't enter into details but yeah, not everyone has the will to not just become the vilain of the story and the system we're in is really pushing (AND making us compete with rich kids from abroad too). For real it's get low-middle-classed or die trying around here.
Sorry I do not know really if you are joking or not but can you please get into details. Belgium has a very good social system with free education so I do not understand what the problem is there.
High taxes on labour and lax laws / justice system and a general relaxed attitude to petty crime make it sometimes an easy choice for some people. If you can make 100 euros in a day tax free selling some drugs while also getting help from the state why would you not take that opportunity.
Why would i be joking ? When you study and live by your own with no family support the social aids will get you the bare minimum, i did not say i haven't asked for them. Thanks god i could have a little, but you wouldn't imagine the struggle to actually get them ! Since i'm half white they thought i was scamming them, i got insulted and had to take that to the president of the concerned CPAS.
And free education is when you study something where you just need to read and right, i studided in the technical field, i had to actually develop things from nothing. Also free means you'll get reimbursed a part of it only. And only sign up fee are reimbursed.
But hey, i'm not here to tell you the social system is not trying, i tell you that i did not eat when i was hungry until i was 26. And study in that kind of environment is daunting, living with lowlife roommates
Thanks for your answer and I am sorry you had to go through those.
I can understand that on a hierarchy of needs you require shelter and comfort to be able to achieve your dreams and be a good member of society.
My only point is that Belgium has this good social system and it works quite well in most cases that's why it's also known for it. It might be that there are cases where you slip through the cracks but overall it's objectively better than most others.
Think a lot of the times luck makes a difference, I was in a similar scenario as your and I consider myself lucky I did not go through what you went through.
Thank you mate. It's a privilege to have come this far, and now we try to elevate the ones that did not do it.
And Belgium has good social system it's not a lie.
Yet, good social system is not what makes crime disappear. That was actually the only point i was trying to make with this post.
I hope you make it in here too. And don't assume belgians have it easy
What are you talking about? Where do you live in Belgium to develop this mindset? Never heard of OCMW and all the other social benefits the country offers? No one is forced to die trying it's a fucking choice as a Belgian born person. You'll not starve or die if you do things by the books especially as a Belgian born person.
Yeah you'll struggle and that sucks. But think of the people who actually have to die trying before complaining you are middle classed
Man i don't care about your point view, get lost.
I guess you don't even know what poverty tastes like so please get a room with your ego and go suck a popcicle.
Poverty is the same from everywhere, it's almost not a question of money.
It's your parents, the family, the sickness, the lack of connections and opportunities, the drugs, the suicides, the crimes, i mean. The curse is not that YOU don't have money as an individual, the curse is where you sprouted and what cards life gave you at the beginning.
I lived in abject poverty by Western standards. No education, no job prospects, no work experience, no way to make money, scraping by with social benefits. Spent a few days homeless. Few family members I had not willing or able to help me. All my friends were druggies, losers and criminals.
I was young and a 'rebel' and in a way it felt cool to be a nuisance all day and concoct little criminal plans instead of just working my ass off. Sure I was a bit depressed and felt hopeless and useless, but the door was open for me, I just refused to go for it.
Once I got a bit older I got a mental shock and just went to the employment office and asked to help me find a job. They immediately put me in a job training program, I got some experience, no one judged me, I had amazing support, I adjusted myself and worked hard and 5 years later I make 4-5k net per month in shifts.
Literally all I had to do was ask for a job, swallow my pride and stop dreaming of being some cool, rich drug dealer, and accept that I would have a decent job making an average salary, and just.... go every day....
So from experience: If you're a Belgian citizen doing crime, you're just using your poverty as an excuse. You don't actually want to take the chances that exist, because you feel they are below you, because you don't want to work a simple job for a simple salary.
Once again, another one using its time to get some consideration here.
It's OK dude, you're a cool guy (althought i don't know where you came from but that story was not hard, you litterally woke up one day and asked for a job and got it ( i spit on you for comparing the hard lives we have here with the ease in which you found your job)), you made it and since you and only you out of your drug addict/losers/others marginal group of friends made it it must mean that it's possible for everyone and that they should just use their Belgian-privilege card and stop complaining. Go to work and get ready to get rich after only 5 years :D the doors are open guys !
Actually man, i can give you a new job if you want, you would be a freelance employment officer.
Roger that mister legendary entitled. I hope you have a lot of children.
Oh and criminals have no reasons !
I mean, don't get me wrong, i knew some of the morons you're describing. That rarely survives a certain age plateau.
Allé i'm tired of this thread, if anyone wants to tell us how, in an other age, other country, other conditions he beat the odds and became a hero, and not a criminal, it's here !
Let your story masturbate your own ears and be a delight for the others that will then victim one up each other until the end of time :D
You dismissed the previous guy because "he never tasted poverty" and I told you I know from experience that there are plenty of options in Belgium.
You are a very emotional, unstable person and I pity you. But if you ever want to have a normal, healthy life, you can stop the victim-complex, the unnecessary angry attitude.
My mother earns less money after 40 years working as a nurse in Croatia than a person receiving social benefits in Belgium. And if you compare the cost of living you’ll see it’s not cheaper to live in Croatia.
And she managed to raise two kids and get them to their masters degrees and now working high level jobs. I’m no Belgian old money rich but I don’t strive to it either.
So i call this a load of BS…
Again, who cares about your mother and your entitlement to your success story. I'm not speaking to receive your success as a counter exemple. Good for you and go get your gratification elsewhere.
Your mother had a well paying job IN your country.
Your mother had a degree, getting a degree from that background is relatively easy you understand. You're fooling yourself.
When you come from poverty and crime you have to battle a lot to get to a nice position.
I’m not looking for any praise. I just call bs on your story thats only purpose is to play victim. You know nothing about real problems. My mom had just a highschool diploma, my parents raised during civil war and you can imagine how much after it took for things to get back in normal. 1 bedroom apartment to rent in Croatia is 500-600 euro on the low end these days in the capital… You can check prices and cost of living and everything I say , but i bet you wont because this way your illusion that this is bad will then go unchallenged.
And do you want to guess why I was raised in “poverty” and not in Crime? Because my parents made sure I dont get into it. It’s culture as well you know…
Blah blah play the victim… (and just to make sure other people get it, i dont say the system here is fair but it’s not nearly as bad as other have it and still dont produce so much crime)
I know a lot of people and in Brussels i know very few belgians. It's not they took urr jubs, it's just hard for belgians to get a job in Bx. There's people sometimes traveling from other country to come and work in Brussels. It's just that. I'm not here to try and convince you. It's just that
I came from poor country, not as a rich but as a poor person to Brussels. I got my job thru hard work. I struggled until I got my first pay but the moment you get paid you can live nice life in Belgium. It is hard to get job, yes but if you have issues maybe you have to rethink your mindset and just better yourself. I saw a lot of Belgian kids not giving fuck or not trying enough. Maybe the problem is you. I led some job interviews and yes, the foreigners were better because they tried more. In most of the cases the CV or motivation letter from Belgian person was trash.
Yo why is everyone thinking i'm victimizing ?
I'm outta misery since some years now.
I'm good now x) the struggles i have are still related to upbringing yet i'm goodly employed and have developped, live by my own in, FINALLY, a nice neighbourhood i don't identify with.
I was explaining to people why is there so many crime in the city, by the fact that i'm a lucky one. And still i know plenty that tried and did not get the same luck.
You guys are really entitled to speak about your success stories xD
I kind of feel like governments should organise themselves to avoid mass shooting epidemics *without* specific pressure or action from their citizens, but I guess it just goes to show how low our expectations have fallen for our governments…
But shouldn't the people organize a protest to fight for cleaner albeit less dangerous streets ? Ask the government to do more ? Where does the 40-50% tax money go ?
I agree with u/Orlok_Tsubodai & u/OkAcanthopterygii720 - public safety and cleanliness should be public services, but obviously authorities here aren't as effective as they would ideally be.
Policy makers will react to what they perceive as public demand, but they will perceive it only if it is articulated! If you fight you can lose, if you resign you have already lost (drumroll, fanfare!!) Even discussing this on Reddit is a start, it is a public forum after all.
If I had a Euro for each time I was downvoted for saying something like this here, for each time I was told that this is normal, it could not be changed and I should not criticise, I could finance a dinner at a fancy restaurant for the extended family.
Unfortunately, such indifference also sends a message: That people don't care. So, as a politician, I would ask myself how much of a need to act there really is.
So, what are the appropriate fora? Conseil communal? The regional government? Citizens hearings if such things exist? Letters to the members of each of these bodies? A petition on change.org? And then seek dialogue on the back of an expression of public opinion!
>Where does the 40-50% tax money go ?
Pension, health, social security - those 3 account for more than 50%. Then comes education, economic affairs and administration (those 3 make up for ~36% of the budget and share more or less equivalent spendings). The 3rd one includes the governmental workers who, despite seeing their number decrease, have seen their salary increased quite significantly in the past 2-3 years caused by inflation and automatic indexation, thus an increase in budget share overall. Order and security "only" represents a mere 3% of the total national budget and is clearly neglected.
I wholeheartedly applaud any citizen led initiative to do so by those who have not become as cynical and jaded as I! Though I’m skeptical about how much effect it will have, it’s definitely better to try something than to just complain about on Reddit.
Indeed,
People love protesting against a conflict that's going on at the other side of the world because oh the humanity.
Meanwhile most people stay silent/ignore what's going on in their back yard.
since I wondered: [https://www.rtbf.be/article/trois-suspects-interpelles-apres-les-coups-de-feu-survenus-lundi-dans-un-cafe-a-etterbeek-11398601](https://www.rtbf.be/article/trois-suspects-interpelles-apres-les-coups-de-feu-survenus-lundi-dans-un-cafe-a-etterbeek-11398601)
I am not an expert at all, but from as far as I can see it's mostly a problem of prosecution. The police can catch as many legal and ilegal criminals as they want, if they don't get sentenced it ends there.
There is 40 comites where, you can google it, it a couple of comites des quartiers to came together to for one voice against the decline of their neighbourhoods, putting pressure on the government.
The press often interviews the main guy from this comité and at this point it's hard for him to hide the desparation an more.
I don't know if you moved here recently OP but brussels politicians are nutorious for minimizing things like this.
15-20 years ago a couple of criminals shot at a police combi and the mayor called it a "fait divers".
In short, nothing will change imo if the political culture in Brussels stays the same.
> 15-20 years ago a couple of criminals shot at a police combi and the mayor called it a "fait divers".
Most important, it was with a kalashnikov. Unseen in Brussels at that time. And if I remember well it was a robbery of a pharmacy.
Such a pity state of affair, so many shootouts these days in Belgium. Those who are wondering what happened - [https://namaste-belgium.com/etterbeek-shooting-leaves-one-person-injure/](https://namaste-belgium.com/etterbeek-shooting-leaves-one-person-injure/)
No, the drug trade is too lucrative to ever go away. There’s billions on the line. People are ready to fight to the death over it. Countries with far better resources and orders of magnitude more experience fighting gangs and cartels are failing to control them. For every cartel boss arrested, there’s a new one that takes his place, and for every low level grunt killed, there’s 10 waiting to take his place.
No matter how many people you arrest and kill they will be replaced. When you escalate policing, the violence increases. Those gangs have nearly unlimited resources, deep connections, and can be extremely ruthless.
Mexico started cracking down hard around the time the Guadalajara cartel was the dominant federation of criminal gangs. Once they took down the Guadalajara cartel, the violence didn’t stop. The cartel fragmented and the violence got worse as they started fighting each other. Then a crackdown on those cartels led to more and more fragmentation, and each time the violence got worse, not better. Pretty much every new boss and cartel was worse than the one before. If Mexico let the Guadalajara cartel be, Mexico would’ve most likely been far better off than it is today.
Belgium is a major drug trafficking hub. You will not win this war. It will only get worse if you kick the hornets’ nest.
Is that you, Mr. Escobar? Thank you for the briefing.
Sounds sad but also true. It's such a shame that at the end of the day, countries are not run by governments but by the mafia.
The corruption fucks some of brussels budget (can't tell me nobody gets favours or kickbacks for the ridiculous projects and prices they throw around) but i'd say has much less impact on the lack of more new prisons being build, the fast growth of the prison population, the fact that nearly half doesn't have the nationality and the other half ain't doing great either in overcrowded prisons known to radicalise people, the fact that criminals are kept out of prison or given disproportionately low sentences because there's just no room, etc
Part of living in a big city, which is capital to a country where literally anyone and everyone can be physically present without any filters or entry requirements.
why is this so difficult for you to understand?
All illegal migrants should be deported, full stop.
If someone is here legally on a visa and commits any crime, their visa needs to be revoked, deported and blacklisted for entering belgium for at least 10 years.
That should just be extremely basic border control. no one is "lumping in all immigrants" like where the fuck are you even imagining this from?
If you're a belgian naturalised national and have dual citizenship or eligible for dual citizenship and commit a violent crime, you should be stripped of citizenship and deported to the 2nd country of citizenship.
it's not the complicated. Belgium and other european countries have no reason to be the world's charity.
You can t strip nationality from people once given (even if it's a second nationality) . It is not a badge that can be taken as you please. If a citizen of your country does a crime, he pays based on the country rules.. law is equal for every citizen, not dependant on your other origins
Indeed I was replying to a comment, not the thread. Do you really believe it's people making administrative "offenses" the driving force of shootings in Belgium? Look, I don't have the time to make the research for you.. a simple google search gave me this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cocaine-brussels-gang-war-drugs-b2497319.html
I would start from there
i am sorry but no, i am not asking you to make research for me, i am asking you to provide evidence for a statement you made, which, I think is counterfactual or just besides the actual point. the article is interesting, there are many others like this, even studies which you can find while googling, but I fail to see the link to your statement.
I won't spend a minute doing that. I was not the one making a claim about the link between "illegal migrants" and shootings, and I don't bear any burden of proof for that claim. It's already bad enough for me that I'm wasting my time talking with random people here who say such crap.
I assume he'd want them gone too after this shooting incident just the same as the Moroccan shooters from last time at this bar.
Given that nearing half of the belgian prison population doesn't even have the nationality (yet) and the prisons are overcrowded and hence affecting the punishments handed out I can see why deportation should be a more commonly awarded consequence.
But yeah that only works if your processing upon entry works so they don't just walk back in and that ain't the case at all.
No, people voted to put less police on the streets.
Also, when the police stops them, the offers are blamed and the shooters or drugsdealers get a street named after them.
In this case, the police has arrested 3 suspects. As for preventing it, there are definitely things the police can do, but mostly they are limited by factors that are (partly) out of their control (no political vision or will, shit organisation across 6 police zones, not enough prison places, leniency from the judiciary, lack of funding, better social support for at risk youths to avoid them sliding into crime, more community support…). All stuff that certainly should be improved, but this being Brussels, I’m not holding my breath.
You bet, Even though i've had a degree people don't imagine what poor belgian born have to go through if they don't come from rich families to get to that. I won't enter into details but yeah, not everyone has the will to not just become the vilain of the story and the system we're in is really pushing (AND making us compete with rich kids from abroad too). For real it's get low-middle-classed or die trying around here.
Sorry I do not know really if you are joking or not but can you please get into details. Belgium has a very good social system with free education so I do not understand what the problem is there. High taxes on labour and lax laws / justice system and a general relaxed attitude to petty crime make it sometimes an easy choice for some people. If you can make 100 euros in a day tax free selling some drugs while also getting help from the state why would you not take that opportunity.
Why would i be joking ? When you study and live by your own with no family support the social aids will get you the bare minimum, i did not say i haven't asked for them. Thanks god i could have a little, but you wouldn't imagine the struggle to actually get them ! Since i'm half white they thought i was scamming them, i got insulted and had to take that to the president of the concerned CPAS. And free education is when you study something where you just need to read and right, i studided in the technical field, i had to actually develop things from nothing. Also free means you'll get reimbursed a part of it only. And only sign up fee are reimbursed. But hey, i'm not here to tell you the social system is not trying, i tell you that i did not eat when i was hungry until i was 26. And study in that kind of environment is daunting, living with lowlife roommates
Thanks for your answer and I am sorry you had to go through those. I can understand that on a hierarchy of needs you require shelter and comfort to be able to achieve your dreams and be a good member of society. My only point is that Belgium has this good social system and it works quite well in most cases that's why it's also known for it. It might be that there are cases where you slip through the cracks but overall it's objectively better than most others. Think a lot of the times luck makes a difference, I was in a similar scenario as your and I consider myself lucky I did not go through what you went through.
Thank you mate. It's a privilege to have come this far, and now we try to elevate the ones that did not do it. And Belgium has good social system it's not a lie. Yet, good social system is not what makes crime disappear. That was actually the only point i was trying to make with this post. I hope you make it in here too. And don't assume belgians have it easy
Have you tried selling drugs? It’s easier said than done though…
I said no details
What are you talking about? Where do you live in Belgium to develop this mindset? Never heard of OCMW and all the other social benefits the country offers? No one is forced to die trying it's a fucking choice as a Belgian born person. You'll not starve or die if you do things by the books especially as a Belgian born person. Yeah you'll struggle and that sucks. But think of the people who actually have to die trying before complaining you are middle classed
Man i don't care about your point view, get lost. I guess you don't even know what poverty tastes like so please get a room with your ego and go suck a popcicle. Poverty is the same from everywhere, it's almost not a question of money. It's your parents, the family, the sickness, the lack of connections and opportunities, the drugs, the suicides, the crimes, i mean. The curse is not that YOU don't have money as an individual, the curse is where you sprouted and what cards life gave you at the beginning.
I lived in abject poverty by Western standards. No education, no job prospects, no work experience, no way to make money, scraping by with social benefits. Spent a few days homeless. Few family members I had not willing or able to help me. All my friends were druggies, losers and criminals. I was young and a 'rebel' and in a way it felt cool to be a nuisance all day and concoct little criminal plans instead of just working my ass off. Sure I was a bit depressed and felt hopeless and useless, but the door was open for me, I just refused to go for it. Once I got a bit older I got a mental shock and just went to the employment office and asked to help me find a job. They immediately put me in a job training program, I got some experience, no one judged me, I had amazing support, I adjusted myself and worked hard and 5 years later I make 4-5k net per month in shifts. Literally all I had to do was ask for a job, swallow my pride and stop dreaming of being some cool, rich drug dealer, and accept that I would have a decent job making an average salary, and just.... go every day.... So from experience: If you're a Belgian citizen doing crime, you're just using your poverty as an excuse. You don't actually want to take the chances that exist, because you feel they are below you, because you don't want to work a simple job for a simple salary.
Once again, another one using its time to get some consideration here. It's OK dude, you're a cool guy (althought i don't know where you came from but that story was not hard, you litterally woke up one day and asked for a job and got it ( i spit on you for comparing the hard lives we have here with the ease in which you found your job)), you made it and since you and only you out of your drug addict/losers/others marginal group of friends made it it must mean that it's possible for everyone and that they should just use their Belgian-privilege card and stop complaining. Go to work and get ready to get rich after only 5 years :D the doors are open guys ! Actually man, i can give you a new job if you want, you would be a freelance employment officer. Roger that mister legendary entitled. I hope you have a lot of children. Oh and criminals have no reasons ! I mean, don't get me wrong, i knew some of the morons you're describing. That rarely survives a certain age plateau. Allé i'm tired of this thread, if anyone wants to tell us how, in an other age, other country, other conditions he beat the odds and became a hero, and not a criminal, it's here ! Let your story masturbate your own ears and be a delight for the others that will then victim one up each other until the end of time :D
You dismissed the previous guy because "he never tasted poverty" and I told you I know from experience that there are plenty of options in Belgium. You are a very emotional, unstable person and I pity you. But if you ever want to have a normal, healthy life, you can stop the victim-complex, the unnecessary angry attitude.
My mother earns less money after 40 years working as a nurse in Croatia than a person receiving social benefits in Belgium. And if you compare the cost of living you’ll see it’s not cheaper to live in Croatia. And she managed to raise two kids and get them to their masters degrees and now working high level jobs. I’m no Belgian old money rich but I don’t strive to it either. So i call this a load of BS…
Again, who cares about your mother and your entitlement to your success story. I'm not speaking to receive your success as a counter exemple. Good for you and go get your gratification elsewhere. Your mother had a well paying job IN your country. Your mother had a degree, getting a degree from that background is relatively easy you understand. You're fooling yourself. When you come from poverty and crime you have to battle a lot to get to a nice position.
I’m not looking for any praise. I just call bs on your story thats only purpose is to play victim. You know nothing about real problems. My mom had just a highschool diploma, my parents raised during civil war and you can imagine how much after it took for things to get back in normal. 1 bedroom apartment to rent in Croatia is 500-600 euro on the low end these days in the capital… You can check prices and cost of living and everything I say , but i bet you wont because this way your illusion that this is bad will then go unchallenged.
And do you want to guess why I was raised in “poverty” and not in Crime? Because my parents made sure I dont get into it. It’s culture as well you know…
Blahblah suck it dude
Blah blah play the victim… (and just to make sure other people get it, i dont say the system here is fair but it’s not nearly as bad as other have it and still dont produce so much crime)
>(AND making us compete with rich kids from abroad too) you're the guys from south park saying 'they teek our jaaaabs'
I know a lot of people and in Brussels i know very few belgians. It's not they took urr jubs, it's just hard for belgians to get a job in Bx. There's people sometimes traveling from other country to come and work in Brussels. It's just that. I'm not here to try and convince you. It's just that
I came from poor country, not as a rich but as a poor person to Brussels. I got my job thru hard work. I struggled until I got my first pay but the moment you get paid you can live nice life in Belgium. It is hard to get job, yes but if you have issues maybe you have to rethink your mindset and just better yourself. I saw a lot of Belgian kids not giving fuck or not trying enough. Maybe the problem is you. I led some job interviews and yes, the foreigners were better because they tried more. In most of the cases the CV or motivation letter from Belgian person was trash.
Yo why is everyone thinking i'm victimizing ? I'm outta misery since some years now. I'm good now x) the struggles i have are still related to upbringing yet i'm goodly employed and have developped, live by my own in, FINALLY, a nice neighbourhood i don't identify with. I was explaining to people why is there so many crime in the city, by the fact that i'm a lucky one. And still i know plenty that tried and did not get the same luck. You guys are really entitled to speak about your success stories xD
(more) citizens asking for security in the right (public) platforms could be a start?
I kind of feel like governments should organise themselves to avoid mass shooting epidemics *without* specific pressure or action from their citizens, but I guess it just goes to show how low our expectations have fallen for our governments…
But shouldn't the people organize a protest to fight for cleaner albeit less dangerous streets ? Ask the government to do more ? Where does the 40-50% tax money go ?
I agree with u/Orlok_Tsubodai & u/OkAcanthopterygii720 - public safety and cleanliness should be public services, but obviously authorities here aren't as effective as they would ideally be. Policy makers will react to what they perceive as public demand, but they will perceive it only if it is articulated! If you fight you can lose, if you resign you have already lost (drumroll, fanfare!!) Even discussing this on Reddit is a start, it is a public forum after all. If I had a Euro for each time I was downvoted for saying something like this here, for each time I was told that this is normal, it could not be changed and I should not criticise, I could finance a dinner at a fancy restaurant for the extended family. Unfortunately, such indifference also sends a message: That people don't care. So, as a politician, I would ask myself how much of a need to act there really is. So, what are the appropriate fora? Conseil communal? The regional government? Citizens hearings if such things exist? Letters to the members of each of these bodies? A petition on change.org? And then seek dialogue on the back of an expression of public opinion!
>Where does the 40-50% tax money go ? Pension, health, social security - those 3 account for more than 50%. Then comes education, economic affairs and administration (those 3 make up for ~36% of the budget and share more or less equivalent spendings). The 3rd one includes the governmental workers who, despite seeing their number decrease, have seen their salary increased quite significantly in the past 2-3 years caused by inflation and automatic indexation, thus an increase in budget share overall. Order and security "only" represents a mere 3% of the total national budget and is clearly neglected.
I wholeheartedly applaud any citizen led initiative to do so by those who have not become as cynical and jaded as I! Though I’m skeptical about how much effect it will have, it’s definitely better to try something than to just complain about on Reddit.
Indeed, People love protesting against a conflict that's going on at the other side of the world because oh the humanity. Meanwhile most people stay silent/ignore what's going on in their back yard.
Wtf? I live in Etterbeek. It's mostly retirees and Eurocrats here. What's going on?!?
Eurocrats moved now to Waterloo 🫢
and to Auderghem, Watermael-Boitsfort, some of them to Woluwes.
since I wondered: [https://www.rtbf.be/article/trois-suspects-interpelles-apres-les-coups-de-feu-survenus-lundi-dans-un-cafe-a-etterbeek-11398601](https://www.rtbf.be/article/trois-suspects-interpelles-apres-les-coups-de-feu-survenus-lundi-dans-un-cafe-a-etterbeek-11398601)
Ah, le calypso… yeah, that place gave off some weird vibes
meanwhile, im planning to move back hahaha
Just don’t get into the drug business and you should be fine.
Like the people on the terras in Saint Gilles
or the swedish assistant in Matonge
I am not an expert at all, but from as far as I can see it's mostly a problem of prosecution. The police can catch as many legal and ilegal criminals as they want, if they don't get sentenced it ends there. There is 40 comites where, you can google it, it a couple of comites des quartiers to came together to for one voice against the decline of their neighbourhoods, putting pressure on the government. The press often interviews the main guy from this comité and at this point it's hard for him to hide the desparation an more. I don't know if you moved here recently OP but brussels politicians are nutorious for minimizing things like this. 15-20 years ago a couple of criminals shot at a police combi and the mayor called it a "fait divers". In short, nothing will change imo if the political culture in Brussels stays the same.
> 15-20 years ago a couple of criminals shot at a police combi and the mayor called it a "fait divers". Most important, it was with a kalashnikov. Unseen in Brussels at that time. And if I remember well it was a robbery of a pharmacy.
What are "legal and illegal criminals"?
Yes, they should ban guns.
And people should stop consuming hard drugs.
We should legalise them
Such a pity state of affair, so many shootouts these days in Belgium. Those who are wondering what happened - [https://namaste-belgium.com/etterbeek-shooting-leaves-one-person-injure/](https://namaste-belgium.com/etterbeek-shooting-leaves-one-person-injure/)
No, the drug trade is too lucrative to ever go away. There’s billions on the line. People are ready to fight to the death over it. Countries with far better resources and orders of magnitude more experience fighting gangs and cartels are failing to control them. For every cartel boss arrested, there’s a new one that takes his place, and for every low level grunt killed, there’s 10 waiting to take his place. No matter how many people you arrest and kill they will be replaced. When you escalate policing, the violence increases. Those gangs have nearly unlimited resources, deep connections, and can be extremely ruthless. Mexico started cracking down hard around the time the Guadalajara cartel was the dominant federation of criminal gangs. Once they took down the Guadalajara cartel, the violence didn’t stop. The cartel fragmented and the violence got worse as they started fighting each other. Then a crackdown on those cartels led to more and more fragmentation, and each time the violence got worse, not better. Pretty much every new boss and cartel was worse than the one before. If Mexico let the Guadalajara cartel be, Mexico would’ve most likely been far better off than it is today. Belgium is a major drug trafficking hub. You will not win this war. It will only get worse if you kick the hornets’ nest.
Is that you, Mr. Escobar? Thank you for the briefing. Sounds sad but also true. It's such a shame that at the end of the day, countries are not run by governments but by the mafia.
Theoretically yes, if the Belgian state (at various levels) starts to get its act together. So realistically, no.
PaRt Of lIvInG iN a BiG cItY.
Part of living in a country with unregulated immigration, mass import of illegal firearms, defunded police and a culture in shambles.
Heyy! You can't point out the real reason for the problems!
Increasing corruption is among your causes as well?
The corruption fucks some of brussels budget (can't tell me nobody gets favours or kickbacks for the ridiculous projects and prices they throw around) but i'd say has much less impact on the lack of more new prisons being build, the fast growth of the prison population, the fact that nearly half doesn't have the nationality and the other half ain't doing great either in overcrowded prisons known to radicalise people, the fact that criminals are kept out of prison or given disproportionately low sentences because there's just no room, etc
Half of Brussels is a 3rd world arab city at this point.
u/Erwps_Kwerps omitted the international irony sign?
Part of living in a big city, which is capital to a country where literally anyone and everyone can be physically present without any filters or entry requirements.
They can’t
they need to be enabled to do more. easy as that.
I agree,they need to.But will they be ? Ever? In that I’m not sure.
If nobody expresses a wish for this to be done, then things wont change.
They can tackle illegal immigrants.
The suspects probably ain't even illegal immigrants.
deporting foreign criminals would go a long way.
if that is the sentiment then why lump all immigrants in a single box as if they're all criminals or something?
Seems like you’re making up stuff im your head. Why do leftists always do this ffs. You can’t discuss things with them.
Look at the comment above blaming immigrants. Why you getting so vexed?
because you leftists literally do not have good reading comprehension nor can have discussions in good faith.
What's deporting illegal immigrants (as said by the original comment) gonna do if the suspects are more likely legal or even Belgian nationals?
why is this so difficult for you to understand? All illegal migrants should be deported, full stop. If someone is here legally on a visa and commits any crime, their visa needs to be revoked, deported and blacklisted for entering belgium for at least 10 years. That should just be extremely basic border control. no one is "lumping in all immigrants" like where the fuck are you even imagining this from? If you're a belgian naturalised national and have dual citizenship or eligible for dual citizenship and commit a violent crime, you should be stripped of citizenship and deported to the 2nd country of citizenship. it's not the complicated. Belgium and other european countries have no reason to be the world's charity.
You can t strip nationality from people once given (even if it's a second nationality) . It is not a badge that can be taken as you please. If a citizen of your country does a crime, he pays based on the country rules.. law is equal for every citizen, not dependant on your other origins
They take a holiday in their own country and come back. What did you solve? Nothing right… 🙄
Or corruption among upper class white (Belgian) people. Edit: corruption. Period.
I would add corruption. Period. Not necesarry only white people doing it, that is an racist assuption
You are right. I was indeed generalizing that upper class = white Edit: which is not always the case
why is this presented as one or the other?
Because people without an administrative document in their pockets is not the cause of increasing shootings in Belgium
that is not the topic of this thread, but since you make the statement, i would really like to see the statistics you base this on.
Indeed I was replying to a comment, not the thread. Do you really believe it's people making administrative "offenses" the driving force of shootings in Belgium? Look, I don't have the time to make the research for you.. a simple google search gave me this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cocaine-brussels-gang-war-drugs-b2497319.html I would start from there
i am sorry but no, i am not asking you to make research for me, i am asking you to provide evidence for a statement you made, which, I think is counterfactual or just besides the actual point. the article is interesting, there are many others like this, even studies which you can find while googling, but I fail to see the link to your statement.
I won't spend a minute doing that. I was not the one making a claim about the link between "illegal migrants" and shootings, and I don't bear any burden of proof for that claim. It's already bad enough for me that I'm wasting my time talking with random people here who say such crap.
Maybe stop buy drugs from this people ?
Stop immigration from Africa
Stop demand for hard drugs*
These were Christian Armenians, why dont you go elsewhere with your bs?
why are any foreign criminals allowed to stay in belgium?
I assume he'd want them gone too after this shooting incident just the same as the Moroccan shooters from last time at this bar. Given that nearing half of the belgian prison population doesn't even have the nationality (yet) and the prisons are overcrowded and hence affecting the punishments handed out I can see why deportation should be a more commonly awarded consequence. But yeah that only works if your processing upon entry works so they don't just walk back in and that ain't the case at all.
Maybe you forgot that Belgium had about 8 decades of colonialism in Africa?
Were shooters residents or illegals? Belgium government bans Georgian lgbtq people but give resident status terrorists & radicals :ddd
No, shooting is natural and you are racist!
Irony does not work well on Reddit.
You all know who. Nothing else to add.
No, people voted to put less police on the streets. Also, when the police stops them, the offers are blamed and the shooters or drugsdealers get a street named after them.