It is incredibly sad that these people are the best that the two parties have brought forward.
I have reasons why I think that is, but it is awful nonetheless.
That’s the whole issue. The two party system. Love them or hate them, RFK, Stein, West, etc should all have been on that stage last night, and it’s anti-democratic that they were blocked from joining by BOTH the Trump and Biden campaigns.
DNC is doing its best to keep third parties off the ballot to… \*checks notes\* …save democracy?!
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/dnc-war-third-party-candidates-rcna143290](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/dnc-war-third-party-candidates-rcna143290)
I just can’t believe these are our choices, that was so difficult to watch tbh. We got a criminal and a man whom belongs in a nursing home. We’re fucked
Context is key. That’s merely a cherry-picked snippet from when it was said…
And this may also be cherry-picked, but at least it cites sources and links directly to the transcript from when Biden said it.
—
[Via USA Today](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/10/27/fact-check-post-partly-false-biden-1977-racial-jungle-remark/6045749002/):
"We have got to make some move on this," he added.
The exchange appears [here](https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112104078842&view=1up&seq=255) in the transcript of the hearing.
Biden was not against desegregation — he just advocated for other methods, like housing integration, per the Times.
Earlier in the hearing, Biden said he thought mandatory busing had "repercussions" in terms of the "ultimate objective of seeing that we get integrated neighborhoods, of seeing that we eventually eliminate job discrimination, of seeing that we change housing patterns, of seeing alteration of the tax structure."
Perhaps I'm just naïve, but I read it as he thought that thrusting segregation into the school system would cause immense turmoil for the children – vs implementing more equitable change in society *(integrated neighborhoods, elimination of job discrimination, housing patterns, and tax structure)* – hence referring to the schools as a jungle.. a potentially dangerous place for all of the children, regardless of race.
If you can read all that into racial jungle, then when Trump said that 3rd world nations are shitholes you knew what he was trying to express and I'm sure you didn't get upset with him...
TBH I hadn’t heard that until just now. So no, I didn’t “get upset with him,” nor would I have because I know he’s a scumbag that has no empathy for others and such a remark from him wouldn’t surprise me.
And don’t get me wrong here, I’m not jumping at Biden’s defense RE: being racist. He stamped that as official with the ‘94 crime bill, and continues to with his handling of what’s happening in Gaza. I just didn’t take his reference to school as a jungle as racist, but rather in the sense that they’d become a chaotic, wild, and dangerous place… like a jungle. Which tracks, because white folks would literally get violent over attempts at integration, and busing children into such a situation very likely could have been dangerous for them.
Anyway I digress. Neither candidate is a good option.
For many people, no. Their rent has gone way up and they can no longer afford a house because a mortgage payment has nearly doubled. Their grocery bill has gone way up too. And their car payment will go way up when they need to replace their car. Let’s not gaslight these people. There are lots of them who are having a hard time making ends meet.
That's what you're gunna have to do when you vote for a felony who bangs porn stars then tries to hide it from the American public. Let me ask you something. Trump talked about how he would bang his daughter while in the white house. is that the kind of father you wanna be? You think it's cool for dads to ogle their daughters and talk about their breasts?
All of that is abhorrent, and the man is a psychopathic, pathological liar. But what should really be concerning is the cabal he is surrounded with that has a litteral manifesto on how the are going to install a deep state to overthrow democracy once hes president (project 2025), and how hes talked openly about targeting his political opponents once hes in office.
He's a vile person, sure, but that's just (depressingly) par for the course for politics. Hes also tried to overthrow the government once and will try again.
Yea. Honestly that is what concerns me the most. Both of them will be ineffectual leaders. But trump seems hell bent on bending the government to his whim. Whereas most would just be happy they got four years. I'm afraid trump is going to try to get much more than the four he has left. I also think that project 2025 is beyond radical and can't see any of it happening. But it is scary nonetheless that they have made a document up and would try to do those things.
Have you not heard what Bidens' daughter wrote in her diary that got out? About him showering with her in a very inappropriate manner. Biden is much worse than Trump.
Very, look at P.Diddy. ROFLMAO! Gangster isn't a good thing, it's just a thing...
Anyway, why are you all so defensive?
They both suck, I just find out of context statements like that hilarious... COMEDY!
He is super creepy about his daughter but as a liberal (I am assuming you are) what’s wrong with banging porn stars? Clinton cheated on his wife too. Also his felonies in all honesty are covering up his banging of a pornstar. You know why we got trump in 2016….because the DNC keeps putting up absolute establishment turds like Joe Biden. IMO a vote for Biden is just another vote from a future trump.
Banging a porn star isn't a big deal. Banging a porn star while married while running for president and trying to cover it up are the issues. That's not a good look for a politician. Especially as a married man. If a regular Joe schmo did it sure no big deal. This is our president we are talking about though.
“Vote for a felony”. That would be cool if we could vote for actual legal charges to become president but also pretty abstract. If I had to vote for a felony to become president I think I would vote for “arson” or maybe “illegal possession of a firearm”. Idk how felonies would be as president though since there a legal concept and not a living breathing person, would still be interesting nonetheless.
Also Low IQ person, all I said was cope. You instantly dived into an attack on Trump when all I said was cope. Maybe I don’t care for the American political system. Maybe I don’t support a party, people outside of reddit sometimes have bigger concerns than orange man and chocolate chocolate chip “super-predator” brandon.
But since you wanted to bring up Trump and his daughter, I can go tit for tat for with you on that one. Enjoy this link about Ashley Biden’s diary and the inappropriate showers she took with her father, Dark brandon is what they been calling him.
Unlike last nights debate, fact-checked for your convenience.
[Ashley Biden shower](https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-posts-claim contents-181600349.html)
"Idk how felonies would be as president though since there a legal concept and not a living breathing person"
Well if we're gunna point out typos then it's "they're" not there but good try :) Also that link you put up doesn't bring anything up. It says it's not there. So whatever fake news you tried to bring up has already been taken down. And it's fairly obvious what side you are one. Should I bring up your post history to prove to you your politics or are you done being obtuse and actually want to debate the facts? I will give you my opinion on the Ashley Biden shower incident as soon as I see an actual article on it. But first I wanna know if that's how you would father your child. You seemed to respond to everything else I typed but my actual question.
“Its fairly obvious what side your are on”. Trolling and rage bait. Thank you have a good day sir/zer/they/them/she/her whatever you weirdo Vermonters call yourselves.
Ignoring all my points and questions and instead attacking a spelling error but I'm the troll? Lol solid projection. And again name calling instead of answering my question. obviously you don't want to have a debate. You thought you could call someone out quickly and sound smart but the moment you realize you could you' call troll and dip because you know you don't have the knowledge or intellect to adequately debate or defend yourself; instead you deflect and project. Good job buddy. You did well here (/s). Now run along and let the adults speak.
Unlike conservatives, I actually believe in freedom for everyone. I will never vote for anyone backed by the Republican party. It's not cope. It's principle.
It used be politicians spoke up about what they believed in and what they plan on changing, and spoke out on other politicians views.
Now it's all about finding personal flaws, or past personal mistakes and tearing the other person down instead of promoting yourself.
Isn't that the whole idea behind bullying? Putting someone down to make yourself seem better?
What an age we live in.
Edit: This comment is supposed to be neutral and not directed at one side or another. Just an observation as to how politicians have changed their tactics...
To be fair the press secretary of the white house has said that Israel Palestine war crimes currently do fall under American jurisdiction and I think we all know Israel is the biggest bully of them all so , trends exist.
RFK Jr insists on not putting down his opponents. He's paid attention to what a lot of us really want. I don't understand why Biden and Trump haven't noticed that we're done with being negative and divisive.
OK, so then vote on who each puppet surrounds themselves with. Trump surrounds himself with racist White Nationalists. Biden surrounds himself with moderates.
are you saying that if you say the phrase "more palatable" you must be a white rich homeowner? what are you talking about..? also trump is worse on unions than biden so idk what you're doing other than being weird and uncomfortable.
yea probably. theres no way joe would make it four years mentally, kamala would take over at some point. i wonder who trump is picking for vice, that could be pretty scary.
I mean, I agree in sentiment but RFK jr. is a complete disgrace.
His policy platform is incoherent and nonsensical at best, he abandoned his wife until she took her own life, and a worm ate part of his brain.
I'm thinking we'll get f'd with Trump again. On appearances alone Trump *Looked* more aware, alert and responsive. If Biden somehow wins reelection he should immediately step down and hand it over to Kamilla. ( Talk about the right's worst fears.)
I blame the American people. Y'all could have had Bernie.
Every single thing Trump said was either empty or a lie. But his followers will only see that he said it with assertiveness and that’s enough for them. Its f’d.
I am having a hard time finding anything to "unpack" here. What I saw in this debate is two supposedly grown and "professional" men acting like 10 year old boys.
They avoided every single question in favor of using the time to attack each other personally. I didn't see a debate, I saw a couple of children screaming, "I am rubber, and you are glue."
The only thing that really separates these two is the fact that Biden actually has experience in politics. Opposite sides of the same coin, these two.
We are so fucked either way this election ends.
i didnt mean this as both-sides-ism. biden is the choice.
still, we can evaluate what sort of choice that is, how we got here and what is means for the future.
It is political malpractice for the democrats to continue to support Biden. If we consider trump a threat to American democracy and the constitution, then the DNC is reckless at best and negligent at worst for putting Biden in this position and for letting this disaster unfold.
https://preview.redd.it/mpx7cp7m8b9d1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ddb1d24111e807571030bd3790da0aa65dd30a6
Exactly. After the debate a few panelists were discussing “loyalty” like they said that the he republicans wouldn’t dump their candidate due to a crappy performance (or a felony conviction).
But that’s no argument to rally behind buden. What good is loyalty to a liability if the likely result is a trump landslide and a democratic slaughter in Congress among the competitive districts?
If the goal is to prevent trump from making sweeping changes to the US constitutional system to favor his cronies and family, he hen the DNC needs to have some tough, humbling conversations.
Yes but they can pressure him. Or at least people in his circle can. And they must or Trump will win in a landslide.
Trump hasn’t lost any of his base. Biden won with a tight margin last time. If the calculus holds that Trump isn’t eroding votes but Biden is, then the math is obvious and Biden will be unable to repeat his historic performance in 2020.
This debate was not like last campaigns, Biden aged 40 years over this term.
> Trump hasn’t lost any of his base.
That's just not true. He's lost tons of conservatives. There's a whole wing of the [Republican party against Trump](https://rvat.org/). And the staunchly Republican base is smaller than the staunchly Democratic base. This I am convinced of. If Biden can win over moderates, or Democrats can come out in force and outnumber the Republicans, it's a lock.
Maybe, but this performance certainly did not win over any moderates presently. Trump lied, but did so eloquently and without offending his base. Biden, terrified his base and did nothing to court the moderates who are deeply concerned about his age.
Still a long way from November, but the Biden campaign needs multiple miracles *and* solid examples of Biden speaking and standing upright for extended periods of time in order to stifle this catastrophe.
Technically? Yes. Effectively? Nope. Third party candidates have almost no chance of winning in the US, so all they end up doing is sucking votes away from whatever major party candidate is most similar.
Well we had 4 years of trump, and 4 years of Biden, I voted trump 2016, and Biden 2020, life was better under trump during his 4 years so I will be voting trump this year. That’s basically how I judge it for myself now
lol 3/4 of our economic issues have to do with Trump blowing up the deficit even before Covid. Massive tax breaks for the rich. Anyways they both suck but at least know the facts.
The DNC wants to drop Joe for Newsom without any primaries before the convention. Or they will do something catastrophic like drop in Hilary. It’s the DNC, they’re insane.
Joe needs to step aside NOW and put forth Gavin Newsom to take his spot. The convention is soon and a floor nomination is the only chance of an adulterous, treasonous, felonious, corrupt, fascist, Christian nationalist dictator from destroying democracy.
Dems are fucked, just don't see any way they get Biden to step aside (though, for the sake of democracy, he should). I do wonder how Newsom would do - the lack of run up for him would probably be good, lot of people in California hate the guy. But he is able to, like, talk and move and seem like he's not 157.
The Republicans are now going to shift messaging to "Biden is old as hell, your vote is a vote for Harris" which will scare the shit out of the undecideds that will decide the race. Dems are fucked.
Joe sounded like he had a cold. Trump sounded like he was using that “spout so much gibberish and lies that it’s virtually unable to respond” tactic that he uses.
for me, it wasnt so much his voice or words, it was the look he had so often, maybe im misinterpreting, but he spent a lot of the time wide eyed, 1000 yard stare, mouth agape. it was very uncomfortable to watch knowing it was a president.
trump is still dump, but damn he looked out of it way way too much.
Yup - they didn't focus on "What are your facial reactions going to be when your opponent spews pure absolute crapola" during his camp david training. I bet they focused on measured responses to actual policies - which when Joe was talking about - he was clear and focused - but that was 1/16th of the debate.
My point is that they shouldn't have to focus on such absolute tv bullshit. Trump did not answer one question, nor did he talk about the specifics of any policy. yet the focus of the "news" is that Joe had a faraway look?
Did you listen to Trumps "answers"? I had a fucking faraway look too. He did not answer any question - not one. He just babbled - technically it's a method of debate called gish gallop. "Its aim is simple: to defeat one’s opponent by burying them in a torrent of incorrect, irrelevant, or idiotic arguments"
And it should not have been allowed on any news program. It was a shameful display of how base the news-click world has come.
And everyone is saying felon this felon that. Half of you are definitely unconvicted felons. You just won't admit it. Joe Biden is a felonious little puppet himself. Just not convicted. Awww. Sounds like he just hasn't been targeted by the weapons of the justice system
Using super delegates to pre-select the candidates has bad optics. Running a decoy candidate and switching them out for "health reasons" has better optics.
The Democrats waited until the primary was over to talk of switching genocide Joe out. As if they didn’t know months or a year ago Joe Biden was in decline. They didn’t want a primary incase a leftist Bernie type person jumped in. The Democrats couldn’t let the voters chose the candidate that’d be democratic which the democrats don’t practice
In the big picture, ultimately I doubt last night's debate changed ANYONE's opinion on either candidate. Dog & pony show, and expect more of the same at all the future debates this cycle. I could see Biden sharpening up for future debates. He seems to have good days and bad days. Maybe he gets lucky and the next debate falls on a day he's sharper. I don't see Trump having a different performance in future debates, he's going to ride his shtick to election day.
I'll vote for the Biden Administration if I have to. Anything else is a vote against Democracy. Third party is a spoiler (until we revise voting system). Trump doesn't believe in the rule of law, the justice system, Democracy or the 8 year term limit. He is breeding a political class of dictators. How many Republicans are no longer committed to certifying the election, who actually did certify the 2020 election? All that said, there is another option. Joe does the right thing, steps down, and allows another candidate to be chosen at the convention in August. This is our best option.
I don't like Trump he's greasy. But he's not controlled by "them" proved by the fact that he went to court and was convicted. If it was Biden or someone "they" elected then you know very well he would have never gone to trial or even had seen the light of day. Douche or turd sandwich is the choice we have and have always had. Last time I voted for Biden, just out of hate for Trump which was absolutely stupid nothing I didn't like Trump for was about his politics, it was him. Retrospect is 20/20 and I'm just over having the only choices being controlled by the same people. Its been that way since Nixon and a little before that even if I'm not mistaken. Vote for who ever you want just make sure it's not because you dont like the person, make sure its because you don't like their policies.
sure. maybe. the part of this I find interesting is that usually the CNNs of the world take the lefts side, and the right says you guys are influenced and listen to the media.
but now, the media is saying negative things above the left in terms of bidens ability to run, and the left is saying, you can't always listen to the media, but the right is saying see listen to the media.
same coin, different sides depending on circumstance.
edit: bold of you to assume i even care about this at all.
i cant stop giggling when i watch the faces he makes when trump is talking, its a mix of bewilderment, confusion, fear, anger and exhaustion that was unsettling and uncomfortable.
they both belong somewhere other than the white house.
Is it a speech impediment at this point? Watch Biden’s opening statements during the Anita Hill hearing from 1991. He doesn’t stutter, slur, or trip over words once. The same is true for his Vice Presidential debates from years ago. I don’t get it.
He had a bad night. It happens. It’s possible it’s getting worse again as he gets older? I don’t know, I just extend him a little grace and patience because he deserves it.
They are completely different but still concerning nonetheless. We all know 'make America great again' means white. that's obviously not good. What is also not good is having a president who can't speak. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the mental acuity to lead but it doesn't look good to the average voter.
They are both racist, I truly cannot understand how people don’t see Biden as a racist with multiple videos of him being racist lmao it’s like they don’t see the videos of him being racist as a senator? If you haven’t seen them I will gladly share them with you on YouTube so you can stop saying one is racist and one isn’t, clearly both are racist
what does the debate between the two presidential candidates have to do with burlington?
haha....nothing, absolutely nothing.
are you from burlington, ontario?
only a sith deals in absolutes.
the funniest part is.....without knowing anything else about you, i truly have no idea which candidate you a referring to.
democrats and republicans both same the same thing.
or maybe your comment was intended as some 4D chess-meta level thing that was said with the purpose of pointing out the silliness of that thought process.
I'm a veteran. I'm a woman. I'm a police officer. I've lost someone to COVID. I have a daughter. I want my doctor to make decisions about my health. I'll let you figure it out.
obviously not in the policies.
in the way they speak and act towards each other, yes.
edit: case in point. i still have no idea who fauxsota is referring to. thats is something i could see either party saying. when you are on one of the sides, as you seem to be, its much harder to see the similarity to the opposing group. when you are a third party, you can more rational compare the two groups. its like us humans having different countries where we all think we are different, but to an alien, we would appear much much more similar.
I'm not sure who won but I know America lost the debate.
Personally I'd like to see RFK's brain worm become the first openly parasitic president in US history.
You guys are just gassing up the BS. Just if literally everyone just stopped talking about ALL of these bozos and STOOD up against this lunacy. It's literally almost psychopathic the way this is all working now. They used to try and classify and hide shit but now they see the masses just laugh it up and play it the fuck down. Come on man where's the patriotism? And I'm not a boomer dude I'm 30. It's just my opinion. This is literally all a show. Everything's already decided.
do you not feel as though many of the issues that people discuss daily on this sub are directly related to the social and political decisions of our leaders?
housing, drugs, immigration, inflation, taxes - are directly associated with who becomes president. if you cant handle a political conversation, about a presidential debate that happens once every four years, then move on.
wondering what my fellow community in burlington thinks, not the greater US, you ninny.
Last night I had to turn it off a few times. I was so sad after. Shocked. How did we get here? What an embarrassment. I didn't fall asleep until 5am. It was the same terrible feeling I had the night Trump won the 2016 election.
I remember hearing Obama speak and the contrast with those moments and what I saw and heard last night was just so shockingly sad.
It is incredibly sad that these people are the best that the two parties have brought forward. I have reasons why I think that is, but it is awful nonetheless.
That’s the whole issue. The two party system. Love them or hate them, RFK, Stein, West, etc should all have been on that stage last night, and it’s anti-democratic that they were blocked from joining by BOTH the Trump and Biden campaigns.
DNC is doing its best to keep third parties off the ballot to… \*checks notes\* …save democracy?! [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/dnc-war-third-party-candidates-rcna143290](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/dnc-war-third-party-candidates-rcna143290)
Every. Fucking. Time.
I just can’t believe these are our choices, that was so difficult to watch tbh. We got a criminal and a man whom belongs in a nursing home. We’re fucked
I will still vote for the old guy bumbling over his words and not the old guy who is racist and misogynistic.
The problem is he’s not going to win looking like a corpse, among other issues.
And a liar and a felon and a fascist.
I'd vote for an actual turd sandwich over t****
https://preview.redd.it/qs7y76t3fc9d1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8ec485951122b2f39507e2e8ded65866d4723ca So don't vote for Joe then?
People like to pretend he wasn't mentored by a KKK guy.
People evolve for God's sake. Mitch McConnell was adamantly pro-choice in 1977. Would you vote for him now? Joe has HUGE problems. This is not it.
Context is key. That’s merely a cherry-picked snippet from when it was said… And this may also be cherry-picked, but at least it cites sources and links directly to the transcript from when Biden said it. — [Via USA Today](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/10/27/fact-check-post-partly-false-biden-1977-racial-jungle-remark/6045749002/): "We have got to make some move on this," he added. The exchange appears [here](https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112104078842&view=1up&seq=255) in the transcript of the hearing. Biden was not against desegregation — he just advocated for other methods, like housing integration, per the Times. Earlier in the hearing, Biden said he thought mandatory busing had "repercussions" in terms of the "ultimate objective of seeing that we get integrated neighborhoods, of seeing that we eventually eliminate job discrimination, of seeing that we change housing patterns, of seeing alteration of the tax structure."
The point is that he said it. In what context does that make it right.
Perhaps I'm just naïve, but I read it as he thought that thrusting segregation into the school system would cause immense turmoil for the children – vs implementing more equitable change in society *(integrated neighborhoods, elimination of job discrimination, housing patterns, and tax structure)* – hence referring to the schools as a jungle.. a potentially dangerous place for all of the children, regardless of race.
If you can read all that into racial jungle, then when Trump said that 3rd world nations are shitholes you knew what he was trying to express and I'm sure you didn't get upset with him...
TBH I hadn’t heard that until just now. So no, I didn’t “get upset with him,” nor would I have because I know he’s a scumbag that has no empathy for others and such a remark from him wouldn’t surprise me. And don’t get me wrong here, I’m not jumping at Biden’s defense RE: being racist. He stamped that as official with the ‘94 crime bill, and continues to with his handling of what’s happening in Gaza. I just didn’t take his reference to school as a jungle as racist, but rather in the sense that they’d become a chaotic, wild, and dangerous place… like a jungle. Which tracks, because white folks would literally get violent over attempts at integration, and busing children into such a situation very likely could have been dangerous for them. Anyway I digress. Neither candidate is a good option.
Which one is which?
While they are both bumbling only one has enacted racist policies and dog whistles white nationalist talking points.
So you're just going to disregard the last 4 years..?
The last 4 years have been a lot better than those under Trump.
For many people, no. Their rent has gone way up and they can no longer afford a house because a mortgage payment has nearly doubled. Their grocery bill has gone way up too. And their car payment will go way up when they need to replace their car. Let’s not gaslight these people. There are lots of them who are having a hard time making ends meet.
Stick your head deeper into the sand
cope.
That's what you're gunna have to do when you vote for a felony who bangs porn stars then tries to hide it from the American public. Let me ask you something. Trump talked about how he would bang his daughter while in the white house. is that the kind of father you wanna be? You think it's cool for dads to ogle their daughters and talk about their breasts?
All of that is abhorrent, and the man is a psychopathic, pathological liar. But what should really be concerning is the cabal he is surrounded with that has a litteral manifesto on how the are going to install a deep state to overthrow democracy once hes president (project 2025), and how hes talked openly about targeting his political opponents once hes in office. He's a vile person, sure, but that's just (depressingly) par for the course for politics. Hes also tried to overthrow the government once and will try again.
Yea. Honestly that is what concerns me the most. Both of them will be ineffectual leaders. But trump seems hell bent on bending the government to his whim. Whereas most would just be happy they got four years. I'm afraid trump is going to try to get much more than the four he has left. I also think that project 2025 is beyond radical and can't see any of it happening. But it is scary nonetheless that they have made a document up and would try to do those things.
"A felon who bangs porn stars", Trump is Gangster, confirmed, lol.
Lol well keep reading til you get to the part where trumps professes to thinking about incest. How gangster is that ?
Have you not heard what Bidens' daughter wrote in her diary that got out? About him showering with her in a very inappropriate manner. Biden is much worse than Trump.
This dumb lie again?
Very, look at P.Diddy. ROFLMAO! Gangster isn't a good thing, it's just a thing... Anyway, why are you all so defensive? They both suck, I just find out of context statements like that hilarious... COMEDY!
You were clearly using gangster in a positive context, jive Turkey honkey. Backtracking now is futile
He is super creepy about his daughter but as a liberal (I am assuming you are) what’s wrong with banging porn stars? Clinton cheated on his wife too. Also his felonies in all honesty are covering up his banging of a pornstar. You know why we got trump in 2016….because the DNC keeps putting up absolute establishment turds like Joe Biden. IMO a vote for Biden is just another vote from a future trump.
Banging a porn star isn't a big deal. Banging a porn star while married while running for president and trying to cover it up are the issues. That's not a good look for a politician. Especially as a married man. If a regular Joe schmo did it sure no big deal. This is our president we are talking about though.
“Vote for a felony”. That would be cool if we could vote for actual legal charges to become president but also pretty abstract. If I had to vote for a felony to become president I think I would vote for “arson” or maybe “illegal possession of a firearm”. Idk how felonies would be as president though since there a legal concept and not a living breathing person, would still be interesting nonetheless. Also Low IQ person, all I said was cope. You instantly dived into an attack on Trump when all I said was cope. Maybe I don’t care for the American political system. Maybe I don’t support a party, people outside of reddit sometimes have bigger concerns than orange man and chocolate chocolate chip “super-predator” brandon. But since you wanted to bring up Trump and his daughter, I can go tit for tat for with you on that one. Enjoy this link about Ashley Biden’s diary and the inappropriate showers she took with her father, Dark brandon is what they been calling him. Unlike last nights debate, fact-checked for your convenience. [Ashley Biden shower](https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-posts-claim contents-181600349.html)
"Idk how felonies would be as president though since there a legal concept and not a living breathing person" Well if we're gunna point out typos then it's "they're" not there but good try :) Also that link you put up doesn't bring anything up. It says it's not there. So whatever fake news you tried to bring up has already been taken down. And it's fairly obvious what side you are one. Should I bring up your post history to prove to you your politics or are you done being obtuse and actually want to debate the facts? I will give you my opinion on the Ashley Biden shower incident as soon as I see an actual article on it. But first I wanna know if that's how you would father your child. You seemed to respond to everything else I typed but my actual question.
“Its fairly obvious what side your are on”. Trolling and rage bait. Thank you have a good day sir/zer/they/them/she/her whatever you weirdo Vermonters call yourselves.
Ignoring all my points and questions and instead attacking a spelling error but I'm the troll? Lol solid projection. And again name calling instead of answering my question. obviously you don't want to have a debate. You thought you could call someone out quickly and sound smart but the moment you realize you could you' call troll and dip because you know you don't have the knowledge or intellect to adequately debate or defend yourself; instead you deflect and project. Good job buddy. You did well here (/s). Now run along and let the adults speak.
Yeah let’s debate on reddit under anon accounts. Sounds like a great use of time.
Unlike conservatives, I actually believe in freedom for everyone. I will never vote for anyone backed by the Republican party. It's not cope. It's principle.
Uh. Im not going to cope with someone heading to jail sooner than later
Frankly, they both should be in nursing homes.
Couldn’t agree more lmao
Hey felons are people too!!! We burned down cities for a felon why not put one in the white house...
You already tried to burn down a city for him.
I'm fine with Kamala Harris being President. Not worried about that at all.
It was historically embarrassing for our country.
I got second-hand embarrassment watching it. The future seems bleak.
It’s seemed bleak for the past 10-15 years and it’s just getting worse
The questions last night were also really disappointing. Nothing but what we have been hearing for the last 4 plus years already.
apparently unions, poverty/inequality aren't big priorities
I like both of them, but I think we need someone older.
Bernie is 82!
and more spunk than the two of them combined.
For real, I see him in person pretty often and am pleasantly surprised how good he looks for being so old. Although he's looked old forever.
If only…..
We saw what the DNC did to Bernie last time
Make them older! More senile!
More footwork! More energy!
> I like both of them, but I think we need someone older. This is a bold and refreshing new perspective.
Did Trump call Biden “Brandon” last night? Perhaps, I heard it wrong. Nearly spit my drink out on the table.
I caught that too
It used be politicians spoke up about what they believed in and what they plan on changing, and spoke out on other politicians views. Now it's all about finding personal flaws, or past personal mistakes and tearing the other person down instead of promoting yourself. Isn't that the whole idea behind bullying? Putting someone down to make yourself seem better? What an age we live in. Edit: This comment is supposed to be neutral and not directed at one side or another. Just an observation as to how politicians have changed their tactics...
To be fair the press secretary of the white house has said that Israel Palestine war crimes currently do fall under American jurisdiction and I think we all know Israel is the biggest bully of them all so , trends exist.
Hard not to concentrate on personal flaws when the ex-president is a liar, a rapist, a felon, and a traitor.
RFK Jr insists on not putting down his opponents. He's paid attention to what a lot of us really want. I don't understand why Biden and Trump haven't noticed that we're done with being negative and divisive.
Both of the two main party establishments want a puppet, not a leader. That’s the only explanation I can find.
OK, so then vote on who each puppet surrounds themselves with. Trump surrounds himself with racist White Nationalists. Biden surrounds himself with moderates.
“Moderates” content to keep their dress shoe firmly on the throat of workers.
Correct. Definitely not my first choice, but more palatable than a fascist.
“More palatable” = White. Rich. Homeowner.
are you saying that if you say the phrase "more palatable" you must be a white rich homeowner? what are you talking about..? also trump is worse on unions than biden so idk what you're doing other than being weird and uncomfortable.
And the Republicans? Billionaires.
Well that's a very terrible thing to say about us.
Moderates that profit from war
I agree with this assessment
yea probably. theres no way joe would make it four years mentally, kamala would take over at some point. i wonder who trump is picking for vice, that could be pretty scary.
Weren’t we saying that about Kamala four years ago?? Where the hell is she ?
but Trump is the party for R's. in 2016 establishment didn't want trump but voters spoke. now, he is the party. Dem situation is different.
This is the only thing I can rationalize from this really sad show we are witnessing.
This makes sense to me.
So if Trump wins, would he be a Trumppet?
Only if biden folks can be called biddets
Thus why RFK and every other third party is shunned from the main stream.
RFK is a joke of a candidate.
I mean, I agree in sentiment but RFK jr. is a complete disgrace. His policy platform is incoherent and nonsensical at best, he abandoned his wife until she took her own life, and a worm ate part of his brain.
Yet he can still form sentences and can articulate his points if questioned. He’s more coherent than the other two combined.
And when the country is ravaged by measles after RFK jr. outlaws vaccines, those of us who remain can bask in the glory of "but he was coherent."
This.
The one thing I learned last night was their golf handicap
I'm thinking we'll get f'd with Trump again. On appearances alone Trump *Looked* more aware, alert and responsive. If Biden somehow wins reelection he should immediately step down and hand it over to Kamilla. ( Talk about the right's worst fears.) I blame the American people. Y'all could have had Bernie.
Every single thing Trump said was either empty or a lie. But his followers will only see that he said it with assertiveness and that’s enough for them. Its f’d.
genuinely disturbed these are our options...
I am having a hard time finding anything to "unpack" here. What I saw in this debate is two supposedly grown and "professional" men acting like 10 year old boys. They avoided every single question in favor of using the time to attack each other personally. I didn't see a debate, I saw a couple of children screaming, "I am rubber, and you are glue." The only thing that really separates these two is the fact that Biden actually has experience in politics. Opposite sides of the same coin, these two. We are so fucked either way this election ends.
It would be a hard choice if one of them wasn't a convicted felon.
And if that same one wasn’t also paving the way for Christian Nationalism to take over.
Yeah- Project 2025 is a fucking scary concept.
For anyone not knowing!! Go read that, this is the main reason people have to come out and vote https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Agreed. It wasn’t a strong showing for Biden but I detest the both-sides-ism going on. It’s not a hard choice.
i didnt mean this as both-sides-ism. biden is the choice. still, we can evaluate what sort of choice that is, how we got here and what is means for the future.
Wasn’t accusing you either.
And at least Biden has good people around him (for when he inevitably dies)
You're forgetting the other choice is actively arming a genocide
It is political malpractice for the democrats to continue to support Biden. If we consider trump a threat to American democracy and the constitution, then the DNC is reckless at best and negligent at worst for putting Biden in this position and for letting this disaster unfold. https://preview.redd.it/mpx7cp7m8b9d1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ddb1d24111e807571030bd3790da0aa65dd30a6
Why the fuck does it matter who takes the presidency over Trump? As long as it isn't Trump, it literally doesn't.
Exactly. After the debate a few panelists were discussing “loyalty” like they said that the he republicans wouldn’t dump their candidate due to a crappy performance (or a felony conviction). But that’s no argument to rally behind buden. What good is loyalty to a liability if the likely result is a trump landslide and a democratic slaughter in Congress among the competitive districts? If the goal is to prevent trump from making sweeping changes to the US constitutional system to favor his cronies and family, he hen the DNC needs to have some tough, humbling conversations.
There's nothing the DNC can really do. It's Biden's decision. If he wants to be the guy, then he's the guy, like it or not. It's our job to show up.
Yes but they can pressure him. Or at least people in his circle can. And they must or Trump will win in a landslide. Trump hasn’t lost any of his base. Biden won with a tight margin last time. If the calculus holds that Trump isn’t eroding votes but Biden is, then the math is obvious and Biden will be unable to repeat his historic performance in 2020. This debate was not like last campaigns, Biden aged 40 years over this term.
> Trump hasn’t lost any of his base. That's just not true. He's lost tons of conservatives. There's a whole wing of the [Republican party against Trump](https://rvat.org/). And the staunchly Republican base is smaller than the staunchly Democratic base. This I am convinced of. If Biden can win over moderates, or Democrats can come out in force and outnumber the Republicans, it's a lock.
Maybe, but this performance certainly did not win over any moderates presently. Trump lied, but did so eloquently and without offending his base. Biden, terrified his base and did nothing to court the moderates who are deeply concerned about his age. Still a long way from November, but the Biden campaign needs multiple miracles *and* solid examples of Biden speaking and standing upright for extended periods of time in order to stifle this catastrophe.
Oh, I 100% agree. This was an unmitigated disaster on that front.
IMO Trump did better
Well that’s just a fact.
Only in this sub could people spin this as anything but a disaster for Biden
Aren't there other candidates you can vote for?
Technically? Yes. Effectively? Nope. Third party candidates have almost no chance of winning in the US, so all they end up doing is sucking votes away from whatever major party candidate is most similar.
People brings this up like they are talking about a quantum principal based on statistical mechanics or something.
There are. You could even vote for yourself?
I actually couldn't vote for myself even if I where a US citizen, but I get what your saying.
Joe needs to be replaced today.
Well we had 4 years of trump, and 4 years of Biden, I voted trump 2016, and Biden 2020, life was better under trump during his 4 years so I will be voting trump this year. That’s basically how I judge it for myself now
lol 3/4 of our economic issues have to do with Trump blowing up the deficit even before Covid. Massive tax breaks for the rich. Anyways they both suck but at least know the facts.
Joe is done
The DNC wants to drop Joe for Newsom without any primaries before the convention. Or they will do something catastrophic like drop in Hilary. It’s the DNC, they’re insane.
Joe needs to step aside NOW and put forth Gavin Newsom to take his spot. The convention is soon and a floor nomination is the only chance of an adulterous, treasonous, felonious, corrupt, fascist, Christian nationalist dictator from destroying democracy.
Dems are fucked, just don't see any way they get Biden to step aside (though, for the sake of democracy, he should). I do wonder how Newsom would do - the lack of run up for him would probably be good, lot of people in California hate the guy. But he is able to, like, talk and move and seem like he's not 157. The Republicans are now going to shift messaging to "Biden is old as hell, your vote is a vote for Harris" which will scare the shit out of the undecideds that will decide the race. Dems are fucked.
The fate of the country could very well be in Jill Biden's hands.
This was the plan all along
But Kamala.
It's so hard to choose between a senile genocide supporter and a sociopath genocide supporter.
What does this specifically have to do with Burlington?
Burlington is in Vermont, Vermont is in the United States…
Nothing, these people have had trumps dick in their mouth for the past 8years. They simply can’t get over it lol
Oh the irony.
Joe sounded like he had a cold. Trump sounded like he was using that “spout so much gibberish and lies that it’s virtually unable to respond” tactic that he uses.
for me, it wasnt so much his voice or words, it was the look he had so often, maybe im misinterpreting, but he spent a lot of the time wide eyed, 1000 yard stare, mouth agape. it was very uncomfortable to watch knowing it was a president. trump is still dump, but damn he looked out of it way way too much.
Yup - they didn't focus on "What are your facial reactions going to be when your opponent spews pure absolute crapola" during his camp david training. I bet they focused on measured responses to actual policies - which when Joe was talking about - he was clear and focused - but that was 1/16th of the debate. My point is that they shouldn't have to focus on such absolute tv bullshit. Trump did not answer one question, nor did he talk about the specifics of any policy. yet the focus of the "news" is that Joe had a faraway look? Did you listen to Trumps "answers"? I had a fucking faraway look too. He did not answer any question - not one. He just babbled - technically it's a method of debate called gish gallop. "Its aim is simple: to defeat one’s opponent by burying them in a torrent of incorrect, irrelevant, or idiotic arguments" And it should not have been allowed on any news program. It was a shameful display of how base the news-click world has come.
And everyone is saying felon this felon that. Half of you are definitely unconvicted felons. You just won't admit it. Joe Biden is a felonious little puppet himself. Just not convicted. Awww. Sounds like he just hasn't been targeted by the weapons of the justice system
Nope.
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Using super delegates to pre-select the candidates has bad optics. Running a decoy candidate and switching them out for "health reasons" has better optics.
What’s odd about it is how much better Biden was immediately after the debate at an Event. 🤷
The Democrats waited until the primary was over to talk of switching genocide Joe out. As if they didn’t know months or a year ago Joe Biden was in decline. They didn’t want a primary incase a leftist Bernie type person jumped in. The Democrats couldn’t let the voters chose the candidate that’d be democratic which the democrats don’t practice
Biden was great in the SOTU.
He was more coherent. But I wouldn’t say a man funding a genocide was great
In the big picture, ultimately I doubt last night's debate changed ANYONE's opinion on either candidate. Dog & pony show, and expect more of the same at all the future debates this cycle. I could see Biden sharpening up for future debates. He seems to have good days and bad days. Maybe he gets lucky and the next debate falls on a day he's sharper. I don't see Trump having a different performance in future debates, he's going to ride his shtick to election day.
I'll vote for the Biden Administration if I have to. Anything else is a vote against Democracy. Third party is a spoiler (until we revise voting system). Trump doesn't believe in the rule of law, the justice system, Democracy or the 8 year term limit. He is breeding a political class of dictators. How many Republicans are no longer committed to certifying the election, who actually did certify the 2020 election? All that said, there is another option. Joe does the right thing, steps down, and allows another candidate to be chosen at the convention in August. This is our best option.
I don't like Trump he's greasy. But he's not controlled by "them" proved by the fact that he went to court and was convicted. If it was Biden or someone "they" elected then you know very well he would have never gone to trial or even had seen the light of day. Douche or turd sandwich is the choice we have and have always had. Last time I voted for Biden, just out of hate for Trump which was absolutely stupid nothing I didn't like Trump for was about his politics, it was him. Retrospect is 20/20 and I'm just over having the only choices being controlled by the same people. Its been that way since Nixon and a little before that even if I'm not mistaken. Vote for who ever you want just make sure it's not because you dont like the person, make sure its because you don't like their policies.
My thought was boiled down to: THIS is what democracy gets us?! Jesus christ America...
we obviously don't live in a democracy...
So the mainstream media doesn’t gaslight you? Or does it?
sure. maybe. the part of this I find interesting is that usually the CNNs of the world take the lefts side, and the right says you guys are influenced and listen to the media. but now, the media is saying negative things above the left in terms of bidens ability to run, and the left is saying, you can't always listen to the media, but the right is saying see listen to the media. same coin, different sides depending on circumstance. edit: bold of you to assume i even care about this at all.
Yeah trump was awesome
Nah
Anybody would look lost trying to debate Trump. That guy brings out the worst in everyone.
Is it still a right wing conspiracy that Biden is experiencing some kind of cognitive decline?
i cant stop giggling when i watch the faces he makes when trump is talking, its a mix of bewilderment, confusion, fear, anger and exhaustion that was unsettling and uncomfortable. they both belong somewhere other than the white house.
Yes. You should reconsider your thought crimes citizen.
Trump is a racist and Biden can't speak. Nothing really new.
Yes, of course, equivalent things. Evil vs. a speech impediment.
Is it a speech impediment at this point? Watch Biden’s opening statements during the Anita Hill hearing from 1991. He doesn’t stutter, slur, or trip over words once. The same is true for his Vice Presidential debates from years ago. I don’t get it.
He had a bad night. It happens. It’s possible it’s getting worse again as he gets older? I don’t know, I just extend him a little grace and patience because he deserves it.
They are completely different but still concerning nonetheless. We all know 'make America great again' means white. that's obviously not good. What is also not good is having a president who can't speak. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the mental acuity to lead but it doesn't look good to the average voter.
They are both racist, I truly cannot understand how people don’t see Biden as a racist with multiple videos of him being racist lmao it’s like they don’t see the videos of him being racist as a senator? If you haven’t seen them I will gladly share them with you on YouTube so you can stop saying one is racist and one isn’t, clearly both are racist
Oh hey, this nonsense.
If it was a battle over facial expressions, trump won by a landslide
Trump for sure 💯💯💯 we need someone to fix this fucking economy
lol no. He broke it in the first place and wants to break it more. See the 10% tariff nonsense.
hahahaha we're all dooomed lol
Biden couldn’t have shat the bed any worse 🤦🏻♂️.
My thoughts? We're fucked. I'm still going to vote for the non-GOP candidate. The GOP is off-the-charts awful.
What does this have to do with Burlington
what does the debate between the two presidential candidates have to do with burlington? haha....nothing, absolutely nothing. are you from burlington, ontario?
Nah I’m from VT haha
we're fucked either way
There is only one choice, and he isn’t orange.
RFK is now the obvious pick. How anyone could vote for those two is beyond sense.
lol nah
If you’re undecided, you’re a traitor. There is only one choice.
only a sith deals in absolutes. the funniest part is.....without knowing anything else about you, i truly have no idea which candidate you a referring to. democrats and republicans both same the same thing. or maybe your comment was intended as some 4D chess-meta level thing that was said with the purpose of pointing out the silliness of that thought process.
I'm a veteran. I'm a woman. I'm a police officer. I've lost someone to COVID. I have a daughter. I want my doctor to make decisions about my health. I'll let you figure it out.
Both sides are not the fucking same.
obviously not in the policies. in the way they speak and act towards each other, yes. edit: case in point. i still have no idea who fauxsota is referring to. thats is something i could see either party saying. when you are on one of the sides, as you seem to be, its much harder to see the similarity to the opposing group. when you are a third party, you can more rational compare the two groups. its like us humans having different countries where we all think we are different, but to an alien, we would appear much much more similar.
They both accept lobbying money.
I'm not sure who won but I know America lost the debate. Personally I'd like to see RFK's brain worm become the first openly parasitic president in US history.
It's a big ol joke innit. Our system truly has failed. ( this all by design 🤔 )
You guys are just gassing up the BS. Just if literally everyone just stopped talking about ALL of these bozos and STOOD up against this lunacy. It's literally almost psychopathic the way this is all working now. They used to try and classify and hide shit but now they see the masses just laugh it up and play it the fuck down. Come on man where's the patriotism? And I'm not a boomer dude I'm 30. It's just my opinion. This is literally all a show. Everything's already decided.
Those two are master debaters.
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why?
My guess is bc this is a sub for Burlington VT not US politics
do you not feel as though many of the issues that people discuss daily on this sub are directly related to the social and political decisions of our leaders? housing, drugs, immigration, inflation, taxes - are directly associated with who becomes president. if you cant handle a political conversation, about a presidential debate that happens once every four years, then move on. wondering what my fellow community in burlington thinks, not the greater US, you ninny.
Ninny? So harsh.
Last night I had to turn it off a few times. I was so sad after. Shocked. How did we get here? What an embarrassment. I didn't fall asleep until 5am. It was the same terrible feeling I had the night Trump won the 2016 election. I remember hearing Obama speak and the contrast with those moments and what I saw and heard last night was just so shockingly sad.