If only the government had posted some kind of warning that the healthcare here isn’t free for visitors…
Oh wait
https://ircc.canada.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=424&top=16
If I get sick or have an accident while visiting Canada, will the Government of Canada pay for my medical treatment?
Canada does not pay for hospital or medical services for visitors. You should get health insurance to cover any medical costs before you come to Canada.
On my last trip to mexico, we had to go to the hospital because my son had heat stroke. I couldn't find the insurance number, and it cost me $4,000 out pf pocket Eventually my insurance did repay me but I was under no delusion that the hospital bill would magically be absorbed by The Mexican government. That is specifically why I bought travel insurance.
Even all provinces do not reciprocate. We check before we travel. If they pay, put it would be a damming ( for the provinces) precedent. Ignorance is not a valid defense.
Your provincial health coverage applies anywhere in Canada but the method of reimbursement varies by what province is delivering the care. The Canada Health Act requires that provinces extend coverage for medically necessary care when the person is outside of their home province. This is usually provided through a reciprocal agreement although some provinces may require upfront payment and then you'd go to your provincial insurance plan for reimbursement.
Of course, this does not apply to "additional benefits" such as ambulance services and those are generally not portable.
Another caveat being that it’s only supposed to be temporary. If you move to another province, you need to sign up with the local health insurance program.
It is not. It is only free in your province of residence if you are insured under that province's provincial health insurance system. If you are in a different province, you are not covered under that province's system, but your home system may pick up the bill. Some provinces play nicer than others with regards to out-of-province claims, but some do not (cough cough Quebec).
I think the noted problem with Quebec is that they will only pay other provinces what they set the rate for something at.
If surgery x costs $5,000 in Quebec, but $7,500 in Ontario, Ontario gets a nice cheque for $5,000 and a thank you but go f- yourself for the rest.
(obviously this is a super simplification).
This is not a good explanation of how our provincial systems work together for Canadians. Quebec is unique in that they are unwilling to participate, but other provinces absolutely accept out of province healthcare numbers which are then billed through the provincial codes. I work in healthcare billing in BC and put through dozens of OOP claims every month, from AB, sask, ON, Yukon, etc.
Quebec is the only exception.
If you move and pretend like you haven’t, that’s on you.
They cover you for what you would be covered for in your home province. I travel to Ontario, large boat, and have coverage. If I had to be air lifted or even need an ambulance, MB health won't cover but travel health will.
We should be charging a fee at the border to cover bills like this we likely can never collect. Then again maybe we can sell the legs for something🤔
Also maybe all those taxes we make off airlines covers this.
Of course, it's worth noting that illegal immigrants also make up about half of the people in the US without health insurance.
In Canada and Canadian politics we take it as a given that illegal immigrants aren't covered by health insurance but in the US health insurance for illegal immigrants is a big political issue.
It does, in the sense that it won't refuse life-saving treatment. It'll bill you, but you'll get the treatment whether you pay or not.
Buddy won't get free follow up treatment or prosthetics though. For non-lifesaving, hospital can demand up front payment.
He’s not travelling, he’s living here without an immigration status. This should have been considered when he decided to stay and not telling our government he was here forever.
From the article:
“On March 31, 2023, the Ontario government terminated the Physician and Hospital Services for Uninsured Persons (PHSUP) program, which provided healthcare access to undocumented individuals during the COVID-19 pandemic, leaving Rivero without coverage.”
So he was covered for a time (since he arrived in 2021) - even if undocumented - but was no longer after March 2023 so those bills added up.
If he was working legally and paying tax etc he should have just the same right to access healthcare for free as everyone else does.
edit: nevermind he wasn't working legally. So it's his own damn fault. Not that he's likely to pay anyway
Not sure what your point is. First off government services aren’t free. Those letters you get reminding you to tell the government how much money you make every April are for them to assess and collect taxes that fund these services. Stop describing stuff you pay for as free.
Second Should people who are here legally and paying taxes have access to government services? Yes. That wasn’t up for debate. The guy above was not here legally (The cute little euphemism ‘undocumented’ doesn’t change the fact the person is not here legally.)
None of the clauses you mentioned applies in this case.
Exactly, you work under the table you don't pay taxes. You don't pay taxes, you don't get covered by healthcare.
Same should apply for all these people getting PR and then bringing over their grandparents who have never paid taxes in Canada and never will yet will require tons of government funded healthcare over what's left of their lifetime.
The grandparents thing blows me away. So 1 million new people could bring 4 more million grandparents ( 1 couple = 4 parents)? It's insanity. Even a few hundred thousand is too many. We can't take on so many non-contributing dependents.
>“People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” said Leal. “They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.”
Uhhh no....if you are an illegal immigrant you are not paying into the system and you should not get free care.
It sucks it happened to the guy but I agree it's like when a tourist visits and doesn't get private health insurance.. I always tell friends visiting from other countries to get blue cross cause it's like 80 bucks for the month and you never know wtf can happen
Just a heads up but blue cross seems to be a pretty shitty insurance company. Recently there was a massive legal case where a director of a hospital had a stroke and the insurer denied coverage for long term disability coverage provided under the policy. It was such an unreasonable denial of coverage that they were slapped with 1.5 million in punitive damages. One of the reasons for this massive fine is that blue cross has a systemic habit of unreasonably denying valid claims.
This was such a ridiculous statement by his lawyer. He's not a citizen and never paid into our system. He did not earn or deserve free care. He's lucky that we didn't force him to show proof of insurance or require up front payment for his care.
A double amputation sucks. I feel bad for his condition, it would absolutely brutal.
However, he could have bought insurance before he came here. I always buy insurance before I travel abroad. It seems like he came here with the intent of taking from Canada without putting anything back in.
Stop being pedantic.
We all know that taxes pay for such things. It is still proper English to say that the library is free, calling 911 is free, driving on non-toll roads is free, etc. Healthcare is also free.
Yeah thats fucked up. We are not the worlds welfare source. Fuck off. Its nice to help people. But Canada is in shambles right now and its getting worse.
Wow that's a wild fucking take... Imagine essentially saying Canadians should pay for and cover healthcare for anyone that comes to their country even though they themselves have a hard time accessing that very same healthcare because the system is overburdened...
Get fucked
We're just going to keep seeing arguments that immigrants have more rights than they do. Not because they have them, but because the immigration rates are so high we now have a significant political faction of immigrants demanding shit and threatening disruptions, protests, property crime or violence if they don't get what they want. Trudeau is to blame for this shit with his absolutely insane immigration policies.
Yeah. Ppl (usually Americans) come up to fish/hunt at a fly in cabin like an hour north of my town. I’ve seen my fair share of hunting and boat related accidents. There’s only been like twice that the patient didn’t purchase health insurance ahead of their trip and they had to pay $1100 before the Dr would even see them and start putting in orders.
$80 for a few weeks of travel insurance is such a no brainer lol
Even after all the labs, imaging, medications, treatments/procedures, and ambulance ride the total is only ever a few grand. Ambulance is only $250 and they have to drive up quite remotely to meet the (sea)plane at the edge of the lake lol. Patients always mention to me how cheap the care is compared to the states lol.
The hospital and town are tiny so if we had to medavac a true emergency, it would be $20k for the 90 min plane ride to the tertiary hospital without insurance. The lake is almost thawed so I hope nothing like that ever happens again🫰🏻
>Despite being undocumented,
>“They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.”
Why should Canadian tax payers foot the bill for an 'undocumented' person from Mexico who got sick?
Maybe we could do the courtesy of fronting the bill for medical transport to send them home. That seems like a reasonable and compassion option. If we're going to be on the hook for a massive cost, let's free up a bed here and pay to send them home to be closer to family.
and OHIP wouldent work if you gave it for free to every person who walks in and isnt a citizen or doesnt pay taxes.
and if you did then every person with major medical problems from other countries would fly into canada and dump themselves into the emergency room looking for free healthcare.
He's here illegally and is surprised our healthcare isn't actually free.
Now he openly goes to the media telling the world he's not supposed to be here. Hopefully he gets sent back to Mexico after this.
Im sorry about his medical issues, but his *medical bills* are entirely self-inflicted. He took up a bed and resources for two months; we can only guess to who and what those could have been allocated to instead.
Why is he still here? Prospect of payment? Sounds like it's going to take a long time without the charity of others. Send him packing.
Also 90k is insanely reasonable for the care he received. It’s 1.5k-3k/day to just occupy a hospital bed. That’s not including surgery, medications, etc
I am a physician in the GTA area. When we treat these patients, we receive absolutely no compensation. We are expected to work for free, even at 2am and up all night, because they declined health insurance and expect free treatment
And realistically, the hospital won't get paid either. $90000 has to be the "bare bones" cost of care. This man will have extreme difficulty supporting himself now, given that his expertise is in a skilled trade. Taxpayers will be paying his hospital bill.
Maybe they accidently forgot to emphasize that he:
1. Came here illegally in blatant disregard to Canadian law;
2. Likely worked under the table undercutting Canadians;
3. After paying zero into the system, gets a bill for massive medical services, that he will never pay; and
4. Cue media sob story.
That’s a good point. This story is written to elicit sympathy for this guy as opposed to rage for the fact our immigration system is a joke, healthcare is in shambles but we treat foreigners, and construction companies hire undocumented workers.
Also, if the company has one illegal worker, I can almost guarantee they have more. That company should be shut down, and the owner fined into the ground and banned from acquiring another business license for life. Imagine if we actually punished the people doing these things and how quickly it could change.
This is the first and only comment so far that criticizes the practices of the construction company because most of the comments here are going after the Mexican but only this one, so far in my read, gets to the root of the problem: Canadian companies shouldn't hire undocumented workers. Most likely Josue would've returned to Mexico after realising that work was scarce.
The alternative is turning into a free healthcare Mecca for everyone in the world who gets sick.
Oh, you’ve got cancer, go to Canada and get yourself fixed up for free.
Yeah, fuck that.
Yeah, it sucks for him but travel insurance for legal visitors is a thing. Time and resources are not infinite (as we've seen with the housing crisis, or the mass wave of international students), and telling illegal immigrants of all people that you can get guaranteed free healthcare in Canada is just asking to cause your system to collapse.
COVID already demonstrated that healthcare services worldwide are stretched thin. How much more burden do you want on them?
My kid cut his foot in Mexico and I paid out of pocket for his medical expenses. I wasn’t expecting Mexicans to pay for that. (I did send the costs to Visa who covered it under my included travel insurance).
This would have cost him five or ten times more in the US if he had the same hospitalization as an undocumented individual. 90k is a bargain.
I am sorry this happened to him it is awful.
But all these stories about the undocumented, the struggles of foreign students, and refugees that seem to be designed to make legal immigrants/PRs and Canadians feel guilty while they themselves are struggling is a ridiculous strategy.
When I'm travelling internationally, I make damn sure I have my insurance updated. The guy came here as a tourist but fully intended to work under the table. Canada needs to get tough on these illegal gate crashers, including this international student scam!
Every single person (his mother, his employer etc.) who assisted this illegal immigrant in settling here should be on the hook for this bill. That will curb illegal immigration right quick.
“People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” said Leal. “They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.”
Uhhh no, that’s not how things work and shouldn’t be how it works either, for good reason.
He had both of his legs amputated. That means he won’t ever work his construction job again. Canada is so bitch-made that we will probably allow him to stay here and not work while we support him
No that’s not how this works. We don’t give free healthcare to everyone. If he wanted to services provided to residents of Canada he should have spend the first year or two becoming a documented immigrant. Having a mother here and working in construction would have helped immensely. This is the risk you take when you don’t want the government to know you’re here. Bet he was paid under the table too, not sure how an “undocumented” person would go about paying taxes.
Wft? Everyone should have access to free healthcare regardless of their immigration status. Did I read that right? I don't go to another country and expect free health care. You can buy insurance for this.
> “People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,”
That's a nice way of saying people that are here illegally.
Was he paying taxes from the money he earned at his illegal job, or stashing it away?
Sorry for the medical situation he went through.
However if isn't the responsibility of Canadian tax payers to cover stuff for illegals.
There seems to be more of these articles about illegal immigrants crying that they don't have access to services. Am I meant to feel sympathy? Deport them.
The construction company that hired an undocumented worker and enabled them to make a life here should foot the bill. If this person would have been unable to get a job until they were documented maybe then they could have had earned medical coverage.
>”Despite being undocumented, Rivero found employment in construction when he first arrived and settled into life in Toronto. In March 2023”
Lmfao, what kind of work does the pearl clutcher who wrote this article think that illegal immigrants do?
This would have made sense if it had been something like “Despite being undocumented, Rivero found employment as a CPA.”
They should make the construction company foot half the bill. That would send a signal to businesses to only hire those here legally, rather than get a windfall off the cheap labour of those here illegally.
“Despite being undocumented, Rivero found employment in construction when he first arrived and settled into life in Toronto.”
All of this happened because Rivero was working in Canada illegally and burdened the health care system with his debt. He should never have been here to begin with and any solution should start there by preventing his entry and punishing the enablers like his employer.
Well cry me a river! If I go to Mexico and need medical attention no hospital will help me for free! I'll have to pay out of pocket and once home I can maybe get a tiny little bit back from my provincial health care/ insurance. Very tired of reading these sad sap stories. Shit happens. Stop expecting everything being free because it isn't! We pay taxes for healthcare in every province.
>Despite being undocumented
There's your first problem, you entered illegally and aren't on any visa. They are right to charge him.
>“People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” said Leal. “They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.”
They shouldn't have the service provided for them. They disregarded our laws to move here, so why would we put our tax dollars towards helping someone lacking the basic decency to enter the country properly or pay their taxes? That is someone who needs to be deported after they were stabilized at the hospital.
>Carolina Leal is a frontline organizer with the Workers Action Centre and has been helping Rivero through the ordeal, doing her best to help him navigate.
Yet another organisation is subverted by bad actors to hurt Canadians and their employment standards. Hopefully groups like these lose all access to public funding and their directors are listed as ineligible in the future to receive a cent from any public funds.
Illegal immigrants don't have a right to work, or a right to remain, and need to be deported as soon as they are discovered.
So we should pay to cover the bills? If you expect the same services and benefits, then come by legal means and pay into it like the rest of us through taxes.
When he/many chose to come here and not follow legal procedures, that is a risk that he took.
I would NEVER travel anywhere without health insurance.
Worked illegally in construction to intentinally avoid paying taxes that go for the very services he is now bitching about having to pay for. Stayed in the country illegally. Took advantage of a country he wasn't supposed to be in. Recieved surgical care from one of the best hospitals in the world, and thinks that the tab should be picked up by honest citizens. Sorry about your legs buddy, but I don't feel sorry for you one bit.
I feel like employers who hire undocumented workers should be forced to foot the bill. They hired him, allowing him to stay… they I’m sure got around paying taxes etc… probably paid less than minimum wage… make them pay.
IT IS NOT CANADA’S RESPONSIBILITY TO HOUSE SND PROVIDE HEALTHCARE TO THE WORLD. HE SHOULD REACH OUT TO THE COUNTRY HE ILLEGALLY CAME TO CANADA FROM AND ASK THEM TO COVER THE CARE OF ONE OF THEIR CITIZENS. HE SHOULD ALSO BE DEPORTED WE HAVE WHEEL TRANS AND WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE SEATS ON FLIGHTS TO MECXICO.
I dont even get provincial healthcare when i first started working on a work permit paying tax every two weeks. He is not even a newcomer. He is an illegal immigrant. This is insane.
Hell, I was born and raised here and the one time I went to the ER with a slipped disc, they stuck me in a hall overnight, a nurse checked me for track marks (twice. Accidentally admitted that's what she was doing) then sent me home without doing a single test or exam and told me to "come back in 2 weeks if I'm still in crippling pain".
Our health system is a joke. (PS: it was mid-liberal reign in Ontario.. I know someone will insist "it's a Con thing")
Sounds like he was only billed for the room charges, not for any of the treatment. $90k for a single occupancy hospital room for two months sounds sort of reasonable without any kind of insurance, public or private.
Wonder if his mom is here legally. Both of them should be deported, we’re never gonna see a cent of that 90k.
I’m sure the government back home will just roll out the carpet for him there and give him the necessary ongoing support and treatment he’ll need for the rest of his life. 🙄
>“People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” said Leal. “They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.”
Maybe he should have gotten a health insurance policy before he left home to go stay in another country?
He was also working undocumented in construction (not a surprise) and most likely not paying taxes (article doesn't go into it).
He was working construction, was he paying taxes? If he was, then he's paid for access to the healthcare system, then he should be able to access it. But I'm guessing it was untaxed income, because he was undocumented and didn't have a SIN number? If that's the case, then I'm sorry, but you need to pay your bills.
If you entered illegally and don't pay tax then you don't respect Canada. Your dreams of a 'better life' are actually dreams of stealing the better life that others have worked hard to build for themselves.
There’s been news about how some visiting pregnant ladies were shocked that they were being asked to pay for their delivery in Quebec… like… what?? I’m sorry for their situation but man, the entitlement is quite impressive
He was undocumented? What did he think would happen?
I definitely understand the reasons why someone would try to move here illegally, but it's a bad idea for many reasons - this is just one of them.
As someone who moved here legally. There was 3 months when I was on a waiting period to get BC MSP. At no point during those 3 months did I think I'd get any coverage at all. I got travel insurance. Come on man.
We are never seeing those $90k back.
Not saying my dude should pay for them (because he won’t) but saying he should have had the insurance to cover it in the first place by: a) being documented and b) getting a job through the proper channels.
This is an edge case (and a sad one) but at the end construction companies benefit from this, probably paying a fraction of the salary and benefits they would pay a Canadian, and the immigrants benefit from this because they come “to visit” but stay and work cash and make more than they would somewhere else.
The only ones who don’t benefit are Canadians who have to foot the bill when these things happen. And this is probably the tip of the iceberg.
Its not a crazy concept. Our public health care system is for citizens only. If you are not a citizen, you pay like in any other country. Hopefully in most cases they can get payment up front since these people will just leave and never pay.
He doesn't have status here so he doesn't qualify for OHIP. Same thing happens to most illegal immigrants in the US.
I wonder how that infection got so bad though. Untreated appendicitis?
Massive pet peeve of mine as a physician. Most people don’t realize that we have to bill the government for services. If the patient does not have coverage, we don’t get paid. I carry a Square reader in the ER to charge foreign visitors before I see them. But if they are unconscious or severely injured, that option is not available. I almost never get paid for care of foreigners. And yet, if they wanted to sue me because they weren’t happy with my unpaid care, they could. My colleague once provided $5000 worth of resuscitationservices, and all she got back was a bouquet of flowers.
Construction company that hired him should pay it. They were probably paying the guy something like 5$ an hour when the job should've gone to a local. Needs to be consequences for these companies.
I was about to feel sympathetic and donate but then I realized he wasn’t Canadian. We can’t afford to fund the healthcare of everyone in the world. For all we know people double dip benefits of lower taxes in their own country then come here when they are somehow sick or need healthcare
Canada should extend free healthcare to all 8 billion people on the planet. And if aliens ever come visit, to them as well. The whole bloody universe! Why not.
You pay taxes and you get our Healthcare covered. The exceptions are our indigenous communities in regards to taxes. I don't think there should be any other exceptions. I'm sorry but I can't go to another country and expect them to cover my medical care. Caring for the ill costs alot of money and that money has to come from somewhere. Canadian people are struggling enough with our taxes. I do feel bad for this person having such a large bill but as a country we need to stop taking the food off our own tables to feed the neighbors when we haven't eaten yet.
That’s an awful situation for anyone to be in and my heart does break for him on a human level. At the same time, we’d be treated the exact same way in most other countries, not just the U.S.
“They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.”
No, they bloody well should not!
I'm not without sympathy for the man. He certainly does not deserve what happened to him, but he was "undocumented".
If we do as his advocate says above, CBSA will have to start screening every non-citizen entering for pre-existing medical conditions.
Sucks, but c'est la vie.
Doesn’t matter what people think now. You can’t get blood from a turnip. The choice was to let him die or treat him. The right choice was made. When he is able to be sent home, he should be sent home.
If he doesn't pay, eventually the government reaches out to home country and they'll ship him back for free to get him off the system.
Even if there were go fund me $$$....
We're huge push overs.
Honestly, I think Canada needs to start being more selfish towards other countries. Were not investing into Canadians who are perfectly capable, were investing into cheap foreign workers. Guaranteed this guy will probably get this debt wiped in some way or another. I know it sucks but this is reality
$90k is a great deal for the amount of care he received. He came here illegally, didn't get insurance, didn't pay taxes, and used $90k in healthcare that taxpayers funded. He has to pay, then leave.
If only the government had posted some kind of warning that the healthcare here isn’t free for visitors… Oh wait https://ircc.canada.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=424&top=16 If I get sick or have an accident while visiting Canada, will the Government of Canada pay for my medical treatment? Canada does not pay for hospital or medical services for visitors. You should get health insurance to cover any medical costs before you come to Canada.
Tuff sh*t. We are treated the same in foreign countries. It is not Canada's fault for them not reading the rules.
On my last trip to mexico, we had to go to the hospital because my son had heat stroke. I couldn't find the insurance number, and it cost me $4,000 out pf pocket Eventually my insurance did repay me but I was under no delusion that the hospital bill would magically be absorbed by The Mexican government. That is specifically why I bought travel insurance.
Even all provinces do not reciprocate. We check before we travel. If they pay, put it would be a damming ( for the provinces) precedent. Ignorance is not a valid defense.
Your provincial health coverage applies anywhere in Canada but the method of reimbursement varies by what province is delivering the care. The Canada Health Act requires that provinces extend coverage for medically necessary care when the person is outside of their home province. This is usually provided through a reciprocal agreement although some provinces may require upfront payment and then you'd go to your provincial insurance plan for reimbursement. Of course, this does not apply to "additional benefits" such as ambulance services and those are generally not portable.
Another caveat being that it’s only supposed to be temporary. If you move to another province, you need to sign up with the local health insurance program.
Always buy travel insurance, even when going to the States.
Can you elaborate on this? I thought healthcare was free for Canadians no matter where you travel within Canada?
It is not. It is only free in your province of residence if you are insured under that province's provincial health insurance system. If you are in a different province, you are not covered under that province's system, but your home system may pick up the bill. Some provinces play nicer than others with regards to out-of-province claims, but some do not (cough cough Quebec).
So it would be wise to get travel insurance even when going to visit another province?
Yes. If you have benefits at work you might already have travel medical coverage, so that's worth checking.
I think the noted problem with Quebec is that they will only pay other provinces what they set the rate for something at. If surgery x costs $5,000 in Quebec, but $7,500 in Ontario, Ontario gets a nice cheque for $5,000 and a thank you but go f- yourself for the rest. (obviously this is a super simplification).
This is not a good explanation of how our provincial systems work together for Canadians. Quebec is unique in that they are unwilling to participate, but other provinces absolutely accept out of province healthcare numbers which are then billed through the provincial codes. I work in healthcare billing in BC and put through dozens of OOP claims every month, from AB, sask, ON, Yukon, etc. Quebec is the only exception. If you move and pretend like you haven’t, that’s on you.
They cover you for what you would be covered for in your home province. I travel to Ontario, large boat, and have coverage. If I had to be air lifted or even need an ambulance, MB health won't cover but travel health will.
Did you went to a public (e.g. IMSS, ISSSTE or SSA) or private hospital (e.g. Hospital Angeles)?
Ans then they push their views on us.
Which views are people from Mexico pushing on us?
"Tacos are delicious"
Shit, they won me over.
Literally broke a rib laughing. I'll send you the bill (I'm not insured in my province.)
We should be charging a fee at the border to cover bills like this we likely can never collect. Then again maybe we can sell the legs for something🤔 Also maybe all those taxes we make off airlines covers this.
Well, they can't run from their bills now.
Perfect user name. Perfect joke.
He’s not even a visitor, he’s an ~~illegal~~ undocumented immigrant.
Of course, it's worth noting that illegal immigrants also make up about half of the people in the US without health insurance. In Canada and Canadian politics we take it as a given that illegal immigrants aren't covered by health insurance but in the US health insurance for illegal immigrants is a big political issue.
diffrence there if they should be able to buy a private health insurance plan while also not paying the extra taxes for a public one
In that case, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Who is going to foot the bill?
Way to kick him when he's down
He’s not going to be able to walk this one off.
Wow you guys this isn't funny at all. What if the shoe was on the other foot?
It does, in the sense that it won't refuse life-saving treatment. It'll bill you, but you'll get the treatment whether you pay or not. Buddy won't get free follow up treatment or prosthetics though. For non-lifesaving, hospital can demand up front payment.
Literally need travel insurance when you travel. These fucking headlines are so bait lol
He’s not travelling, he’s living here without an immigration status. This should have been considered when he decided to stay and not telling our government he was here forever.
From the article: “On March 31, 2023, the Ontario government terminated the Physician and Hospital Services for Uninsured Persons (PHSUP) program, which provided healthcare access to undocumented individuals during the COVID-19 pandemic, leaving Rivero without coverage.” So he was covered for a time (since he arrived in 2021) - even if undocumented - but was no longer after March 2023 so those bills added up.
he had 2 years to try and get his immigration status in order or find a private insurance plan or go back to mexico and receive further care there
I mean it's just travelling and assuming your never gunna leave, or you came for the healthcare either way fuck around and find out sadly
Maybe don't enter the country illegally?
He's not a visitor, he was here illegally.
Even for Canadian citizens if you are out of your province for more than six months you lose your provincial health coverage.
Sounds like the poor guy doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Which country has free healthcare for visitors? I think it is common sense.
If he was working legally and paying tax etc he should have just the same right to access healthcare for free as everyone else does. edit: nevermind he wasn't working legally. So it's his own damn fault. Not that he's likely to pay anyway
Not sure what your point is. First off government services aren’t free. Those letters you get reminding you to tell the government how much money you make every April are for them to assess and collect taxes that fund these services. Stop describing stuff you pay for as free. Second Should people who are here legally and paying taxes have access to government services? Yes. That wasn’t up for debate. The guy above was not here legally (The cute little euphemism ‘undocumented’ doesn’t change the fact the person is not here legally.) None of the clauses you mentioned applies in this case.
Exactly, you work under the table you don't pay taxes. You don't pay taxes, you don't get covered by healthcare. Same should apply for all these people getting PR and then bringing over their grandparents who have never paid taxes in Canada and never will yet will require tons of government funded healthcare over what's left of their lifetime.
The grandparents thing blows me away. So 1 million new people could bring 4 more million grandparents ( 1 couple = 4 parents)? It's insanity. Even a few hundred thousand is too many. We can't take on so many non-contributing dependents.
>People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” They don't. He could get healthcare in Mexico
Yeah that's what my coworker did. Not fully covered, so he just went back to India for his surgery. Was cheaper paying cash there than here.
[удалено]
u snapped crodie lmaooo 🤣🤣
Savage 💀 I love it
I actually laughed out loud.
In fact, citizens have universal healthcare there. But if I visit, I pay out of pocket or with private insurance.
But if he went back to Mexico would he be prevented from coming back to Canada bc he over stayed his first visit ?
>“People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” said Leal. “They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.” Uhhh no....if you are an illegal immigrant you are not paying into the system and you should not get free care.
It sucks it happened to the guy but I agree it's like when a tourist visits and doesn't get private health insurance.. I always tell friends visiting from other countries to get blue cross cause it's like 80 bucks for the month and you never know wtf can happen
Just a heads up but blue cross seems to be a pretty shitty insurance company. Recently there was a massive legal case where a director of a hospital had a stroke and the insurer denied coverage for long term disability coverage provided under the policy. It was such an unreasonable denial of coverage that they were slapped with 1.5 million in punitive damages. One of the reasons for this massive fine is that blue cross has a systemic habit of unreasonably denying valid claims.
Can you tell more about this insurer?
They’re the health insurance providers for our military members as they aren’t entitled to provincial healthcare.
This was such a ridiculous statement by his lawyer. He's not a citizen and never paid into our system. He did not earn or deserve free care. He's lucky that we didn't force him to show proof of insurance or require up front payment for his care. A double amputation sucks. I feel bad for his condition, it would absolutely brutal. However, he could have bought insurance before he came here. I always buy insurance before I travel abroad. It seems like he came here with the intent of taking from Canada without putting anything back in.
Oh hell no. Citizens should have free healthcare, everyone else can pay
We spend about 9,000 per capita it ain't free it comes from your taxes.
Should of worded it “no out of pocket expense” instead of “free”
Stop being pedantic. We all know that taxes pay for such things. It is still proper English to say that the library is free, calling 911 is free, driving on non-toll roads is free, etc. Healthcare is also free.
or 18,000 per working person
If only there was something you could buy that would ensure treatment if you got sick, we could call it ensurance or something 😏
I don't know how one can argue with that. Compassion is one thing, but coming illegally isn't our problem. We pay for the healthcare system.
Yeah thats fucked up. We are not the worlds welfare source. Fuck off. Its nice to help people. But Canada is in shambles right now and its getting worse.
"Rivero told CityNews through an interpreter." Doesn't even speak English.
Have you been to Markham?
Wow that's a wild fucking take... Imagine essentially saying Canadians should pay for and cover healthcare for anyone that comes to their country even though they themselves have a hard time accessing that very same healthcare because the system is overburdened... Get fucked
This is exactly why you purchase travel insurance when visiting another country
We're just going to keep seeing arguments that immigrants have more rights than they do. Not because they have them, but because the immigration rates are so high we now have a significant political faction of immigrants demanding shit and threatening disruptions, protests, property crime or violence if they don't get what they want. Trudeau is to blame for this shit with his absolutely insane immigration policies.
You do realize that money doesn't grow on trees?
Yeah. Ppl (usually Americans) come up to fish/hunt at a fly in cabin like an hour north of my town. I’ve seen my fair share of hunting and boat related accidents. There’s only been like twice that the patient didn’t purchase health insurance ahead of their trip and they had to pay $1100 before the Dr would even see them and start putting in orders. $80 for a few weeks of travel insurance is such a no brainer lol
If you're an american flying in to go hunting/fishing, you can probably consider yourself "self insured". $1100 is nothing.
Even after all the labs, imaging, medications, treatments/procedures, and ambulance ride the total is only ever a few grand. Ambulance is only $250 and they have to drive up quite remotely to meet the (sea)plane at the edge of the lake lol. Patients always mention to me how cheap the care is compared to the states lol. The hospital and town are tiny so if we had to medavac a true emergency, it would be $20k for the 90 min plane ride to the tertiary hospital without insurance. The lake is almost thawed so I hope nothing like that ever happens again🫰🏻
>Despite being undocumented, >“They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.” Why should Canadian tax payers foot the bill for an 'undocumented' person from Mexico who got sick?
Let everyone who thinks undocumented people should get free healthcare pool money separately. I want no part in it.
or let them pay for private insurance for themselves.
[удалено]
Maybe we could do the courtesy of fronting the bill for medical transport to send them home. That seems like a reasonable and compassion option. If we're going to be on the hook for a massive cost, let's free up a bed here and pay to send them home to be closer to family.
Well medical flights are not cheap. You still needed Drs / nurses to be with the patient. And if something happens on board who is liable?
Cheaper than supporting him on disability for the next 40 years.
And why should we be supporting him on disability?
Title needs a correction. Illegal immigrants are not covered by OHIP and pay out of pocket like anyone else from outside the country visiting Canada.
and OHIP wouldent work if you gave it for free to every person who walks in and isnt a citizen or doesnt pay taxes. and if you did then every person with major medical problems from other countries would fly into canada and dump themselves into the emergency room looking for free healthcare.
He's here illegally and is surprised our healthcare isn't actually free. Now he openly goes to the media telling the world he's not supposed to be here. Hopefully he gets sent back to Mexico after this.
And Canada will have to pay to get him To Mexico while we will never see the money back for helping him lol
Unlikely he's going to pay the bill so at the end of the day he will get his free healthcare and a trip back home.
Only gonna be able to send back about 2/3s of him though.
💀
Cost of doing business
He was here illegally, working under the table illegally.
Im sorry about his medical issues, but his *medical bills* are entirely self-inflicted. He took up a bed and resources for two months; we can only guess to who and what those could have been allocated to instead. Why is he still here? Prospect of payment? Sounds like it's going to take a long time without the charity of others. Send him packing.
Also 90k is insanely reasonable for the care he received. It’s 1.5k-3k/day to just occupy a hospital bed. That’s not including surgery, medications, etc
I'm just waiting to see which government takes the sob story bait and completely encourages more mooching like this.
I am a physician in the GTA area. When we treat these patients, we receive absolutely no compensation. We are expected to work for free, even at 2am and up all night, because they declined health insurance and expect free treatment
And realistically, the hospital won't get paid either. $90000 has to be the "bare bones" cost of care. This man will have extreme difficulty supporting himself now, given that his expertise is in a skilled trade. Taxpayers will be paying his hospital bill.
You mean the healthcare we pay for through taxes isn’t free to the rest of the world. Shocking.
Maybe they accidently forgot to emphasize that he: 1. Came here illegally in blatant disregard to Canadian law; 2. Likely worked under the table undercutting Canadians; 3. After paying zero into the system, gets a bill for massive medical services, that he will never pay; and 4. Cue media sob story.
Wild they keep trying to push the free stuff for non Canadians propaganda
That’s a good point. This story is written to elicit sympathy for this guy as opposed to rage for the fact our immigration system is a joke, healthcare is in shambles but we treat foreigners, and construction companies hire undocumented workers.
Also, if the company has one illegal worker, I can almost guarantee they have more. That company should be shut down, and the owner fined into the ground and banned from acquiring another business license for life. Imagine if we actually punished the people doing these things and how quickly it could change.
This is the first and only comment so far that criticizes the practices of the construction company because most of the comments here are going after the Mexican but only this one, so far in my read, gets to the root of the problem: Canadian companies shouldn't hire undocumented workers. Most likely Josue would've returned to Mexico after realising that work was scarce.
Why is our news media picking up this story? He needs to pay. It's simple.
Because they want to garner sympathy
If you enter the country illegally, you don't get free healthcare. Welcome to the consequences of your actions.
Mexico has free health care for its citizens. Might have been difficult for him but he should have gone home.
"Undocumented" means he is here ILLEGALLY. Why should hard working Canadians, who fund the system pay for his care?
The alternative is turning into a free healthcare Mecca for everyone in the world who gets sick. Oh, you’ve got cancer, go to Canada and get yourself fixed up for free. Yeah, fuck that.
Yeah, it sucks for him but travel insurance for legal visitors is a thing. Time and resources are not infinite (as we've seen with the housing crisis, or the mass wave of international students), and telling illegal immigrants of all people that you can get guaranteed free healthcare in Canada is just asking to cause your system to collapse. COVID already demonstrated that healthcare services worldwide are stretched thin. How much more burden do you want on them?
My kid cut his foot in Mexico and I paid out of pocket for his medical expenses. I wasn’t expecting Mexicans to pay for that. (I did send the costs to Visa who covered it under my included travel insurance).
This shit aint free man!!!
This would have cost him five or ten times more in the US if he had the same hospitalization as an undocumented individual. 90k is a bargain. I am sorry this happened to him it is awful. But all these stories about the undocumented, the struggles of foreign students, and refugees that seem to be designed to make legal immigrants/PRs and Canadians feel guilty while they themselves are struggling is a ridiculous strategy.
When I'm travelling internationally, I make damn sure I have my insurance updated. The guy came here as a tourist but fully intended to work under the table. Canada needs to get tough on these illegal gate crashers, including this international student scam!
Every single person (his mother, his employer etc.) who assisted this illegal immigrant in settling here should be on the hook for this bill. That will curb illegal immigration right quick.
“People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” said Leal. “They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.” Uhhh no, that’s not how things work and shouldn’t be how it works either, for good reason.
They're not going to get any money out of him so put him on a flight back to his country of origin and be done with it.
He had both of his legs amputated. That means he won’t ever work his construction job again. Canada is so bitch-made that we will probably allow him to stay here and not work while we support him
No that’s not how this works. We don’t give free healthcare to everyone. If he wanted to services provided to residents of Canada he should have spend the first year or two becoming a documented immigrant. Having a mother here and working in construction would have helped immensely. This is the risk you take when you don’t want the government to know you’re here. Bet he was paid under the table too, not sure how an “undocumented” person would go about paying taxes.
Wft? Everyone should have access to free healthcare regardless of their immigration status. Did I read that right? I don't go to another country and expect free health care. You can buy insurance for this.
Real question is, why is he still in Canada? He won't be able to pay, that much is clear.
> “People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” That's a nice way of saying people that are here illegally. Was he paying taxes from the money he earned at his illegal job, or stashing it away?
Sorry for the medical situation he went through. However if isn't the responsibility of Canadian tax payers to cover stuff for illegals. There seems to be more of these articles about illegal immigrants crying that they don't have access to services. Am I meant to feel sympathy? Deport them.
The construction company that hired an undocumented worker and enabled them to make a life here should foot the bill. If this person would have been unable to get a job until they were documented maybe then they could have had earned medical coverage.
They would never have become documented
>”Despite being undocumented, Rivero found employment in construction when he first arrived and settled into life in Toronto. In March 2023” Lmfao, what kind of work does the pearl clutcher who wrote this article think that illegal immigrants do? This would have made sense if it had been something like “Despite being undocumented, Rivero found employment as a CPA.”
They should make the construction company foot half the bill. That would send a signal to businesses to only hire those here legally, rather than get a windfall off the cheap labour of those here illegally.
Headline should read: *Undocumented Immigrant Feels Entitled to Free Health Care But Doesn't Have a Leg to Stand On*
“Despite being undocumented, Rivero found employment in construction when he first arrived and settled into life in Toronto.” All of this happened because Rivero was working in Canada illegally and burdened the health care system with his debt. He should never have been here to begin with and any solution should start there by preventing his entry and punishing the enablers like his employer.
I wish the hospital could go after the construction company for the guy's bill. Canadians and PRs need those jobs.
Shouldn’t have been in Canada to start… This shouldn’t fall on taxpayers
Sucks for him to be sure, but this is not Canada's burden to bear.
Illegal visitor; sounds like we should deport them
Almost as if immigrating the illegal way has consequences.
Well cry me a river! If I go to Mexico and need medical attention no hospital will help me for free! I'll have to pay out of pocket and once home I can maybe get a tiny little bit back from my provincial health care/ insurance. Very tired of reading these sad sap stories. Shit happens. Stop expecting everything being free because it isn't! We pay taxes for healthcare in every province.
>Despite being undocumented There's your first problem, you entered illegally and aren't on any visa. They are right to charge him. >“People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” said Leal. “They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.” They shouldn't have the service provided for them. They disregarded our laws to move here, so why would we put our tax dollars towards helping someone lacking the basic decency to enter the country properly or pay their taxes? That is someone who needs to be deported after they were stabilized at the hospital. >Carolina Leal is a frontline organizer with the Workers Action Centre and has been helping Rivero through the ordeal, doing her best to help him navigate. Yet another organisation is subverted by bad actors to hurt Canadians and their employment standards. Hopefully groups like these lose all access to public funding and their directors are listed as ineligible in the future to receive a cent from any public funds. Illegal immigrants don't have a right to work, or a right to remain, and need to be deported as soon as they are discovered.
90k for treatment and care... if this happened in the USA that would be the deductible lol...
So we should pay to cover the bills? If you expect the same services and benefits, then come by legal means and pay into it like the rest of us through taxes. When he/many chose to come here and not follow legal procedures, that is a risk that he took. I would NEVER travel anywhere without health insurance.
Worked illegally in construction to intentinally avoid paying taxes that go for the very services he is now bitching about having to pay for. Stayed in the country illegally. Took advantage of a country he wasn't supposed to be in. Recieved surgical care from one of the best hospitals in the world, and thinks that the tab should be picked up by honest citizens. Sorry about your legs buddy, but I don't feel sorry for you one bit.
I feel like employers who hire undocumented workers should be forced to foot the bill. They hired him, allowing him to stay… they I’m sure got around paying taxes etc… probably paid less than minimum wage… make them pay.
IT IS NOT CANADA’S RESPONSIBILITY TO HOUSE SND PROVIDE HEALTHCARE TO THE WORLD. HE SHOULD REACH OUT TO THE COUNTRY HE ILLEGALLY CAME TO CANADA FROM AND ASK THEM TO COVER THE CARE OF ONE OF THEIR CITIZENS. HE SHOULD ALSO BE DEPORTED WE HAVE WHEEL TRANS AND WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE SEATS ON FLIGHTS TO MECXICO.
How is this news 🤷♂️
Man who enters country illegally, and without medical insurance, left without legs to stand on.
I dont even get provincial healthcare when i first started working on a work permit paying tax every two weeks. He is not even a newcomer. He is an illegal immigrant. This is insane.
Hell, I was born and raised here and the one time I went to the ER with a slipped disc, they stuck me in a hall overnight, a nurse checked me for track marks (twice. Accidentally admitted that's what she was doing) then sent me home without doing a single test or exam and told me to "come back in 2 weeks if I'm still in crippling pain". Our health system is a joke. (PS: it was mid-liberal reign in Ontario.. I know someone will insist "it's a Con thing")
Sounds like he was only billed for the room charges, not for any of the treatment. $90k for a single occupancy hospital room for two months sounds sort of reasonable without any kind of insurance, public or private.
How much you want to bet that the everyday Canadian taxpayer is going to end up footing this bill in the end?
Wonder if his mom is here legally. Both of them should be deported, we’re never gonna see a cent of that 90k. I’m sure the government back home will just roll out the carpet for him there and give him the necessary ongoing support and treatment he’ll need for the rest of his life. 🙄
>“People like Josue and a lot of people in the community they lack of access to healthcare,” said Leal. “They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.” Maybe he should have gotten a health insurance policy before he left home to go stay in another country? He was also working undocumented in construction (not a surprise) and most likely not paying taxes (article doesn't go into it).
Yup and after treatment they just leave the country and never repay OHIP.
oh well, shits not free
Yeah that's pretty standard, if I was in Florida with no insurance I'd be paying an arm and a leg as well.
He was working construction, was he paying taxes? If he was, then he's paid for access to the healthcare system, then he should be able to access it. But I'm guessing it was untaxed income, because he was undocumented and didn't have a SIN number? If that's the case, then I'm sorry, but you need to pay your bills. If you entered illegally and don't pay tax then you don't respect Canada. Your dreams of a 'better life' are actually dreams of stealing the better life that others have worked hard to build for themselves.
Obviously he wasn’t paying taxes, he’s an illegal alien in Canada…
This guy doesn’t have a leg to stand on n
r/Angryupvote
I'm tired of everyone treating Canada like we are some bottomless pit of free money that everyone is entitled to...
Whenever we travel to other countries, we buy health insurance .
Give him his legs in a ziplock bag on ice and book him a ticket home.
NGL, my American self read $90,000 and immediately thought, that’s a deal. Two months in the hospital and two amputated legs?
There’s been news about how some visiting pregnant ladies were shocked that they were being asked to pay for their delivery in Quebec… like… what?? I’m sorry for their situation but man, the entitlement is quite impressive
He was undocumented? What did he think would happen? I definitely understand the reasons why someone would try to move here illegally, but it's a bad idea for many reasons - this is just one of them.
As someone who moved here legally. There was 3 months when I was on a waiting period to get BC MSP. At no point during those 3 months did I think I'd get any coverage at all. I got travel insurance. Come on man.
We are never seeing those $90k back. Not saying my dude should pay for them (because he won’t) but saying he should have had the insurance to cover it in the first place by: a) being documented and b) getting a job through the proper channels. This is an edge case (and a sad one) but at the end construction companies benefit from this, probably paying a fraction of the salary and benefits they would pay a Canadian, and the immigrants benefit from this because they come “to visit” but stay and work cash and make more than they would somewhere else. The only ones who don’t benefit are Canadians who have to foot the bill when these things happen. And this is probably the tip of the iceberg.
Its not a crazy concept. Our public health care system is for citizens only. If you are not a citizen, you pay like in any other country. Hopefully in most cases they can get payment up front since these people will just leave and never pay.
He doesn't have status here so he doesn't qualify for OHIP. Same thing happens to most illegal immigrants in the US. I wonder how that infection got so bad though. Untreated appendicitis?
Watch him just leave the country without paying his bills
Massive pet peeve of mine as a physician. Most people don’t realize that we have to bill the government for services. If the patient does not have coverage, we don’t get paid. I carry a Square reader in the ER to charge foreign visitors before I see them. But if they are unconscious or severely injured, that option is not available. I almost never get paid for care of foreigners. And yet, if they wanted to sue me because they weren’t happy with my unpaid care, they could. My colleague once provided $5000 worth of resuscitationservices, and all she got back was a bouquet of flowers.
Hopefully taxpayers do not pick up the tab here.
Construction company that hired him should pay it. They were probably paying the guy something like 5$ an hour when the job should've gone to a local. Needs to be consequences for these companies.
If some illegal immigrants in Mexico fall ill and face medical bills, will Mexican government cover the expense?
I was about to feel sympathetic and donate but then I realized he wasn’t Canadian. We can’t afford to fund the healthcare of everyone in the world. For all we know people double dip benefits of lower taxes in their own country then come here when they are somehow sick or need healthcare
Canada should extend free healthcare to all 8 billion people on the planet. And if aliens ever come visit, to them as well. The whole bloody universe! Why not.
You pay taxes and you get our Healthcare covered. The exceptions are our indigenous communities in regards to taxes. I don't think there should be any other exceptions. I'm sorry but I can't go to another country and expect them to cover my medical care. Caring for the ill costs alot of money and that money has to come from somewhere. Canadian people are struggling enough with our taxes. I do feel bad for this person having such a large bill but as a country we need to stop taking the food off our own tables to feed the neighbors when we haven't eaten yet.
Rolled the dice on getting a free ride, and lost.
Yeah, that's what happens when you're in a country illegally. You aren't covered by their medical system.
That’s an awful situation for anyone to be in and my heart does break for him on a human level. At the same time, we’d be treated the exact same way in most other countries, not just the U.S.
He should be grateful it's only $90,000. He'd be in for millions in the USA, and be facing deportation.
“They have to pay thousands of dollars to get the service that should be able to get everyone regardless of their immigration status.” No, they bloody well should not! I'm not without sympathy for the man. He certainly does not deserve what happened to him, but he was "undocumented". If we do as his advocate says above, CBSA will have to start screening every non-citizen entering for pre-existing medical conditions. Sucks, but c'est la vie.
Josue Rivero, you can't run from your debts. 😄
Doesn’t matter what people think now. You can’t get blood from a turnip. The choice was to let him die or treat him. The right choice was made. When he is able to be sent home, he should be sent home.
Unfortunately, it was very clearly quoted as an *arm* and a leg
We all know that he ain’t gonna pay for that hospital bill. I just hope he gets kicked out of Canada and banned for life.
If he doesn't pay, what are they gonna do? Put his legs back on?
Liberal voters are happy to give away the whole country, to satisfy some moronic sense of moral superiority.
They’ll just leave and not pay
This country is falling apart
If he doesn't pay, eventually the government reaches out to home country and they'll ship him back for free to get him off the system. Even if there were go fund me $$$.... We're huge push overs.
Does anybody have an idea what his abdominal pains and his infection might have been ? That sounds scary af.
IT IS NOT CANADA’s problem.
Honestly, I think Canada needs to start being more selfish towards other countries. Were not investing into Canadians who are perfectly capable, were investing into cheap foreign workers. Guaranteed this guy will probably get this debt wiped in some way or another. I know it sucks but this is reality
I guess you could say the surgery cost "an arm and a leg"
$90k is a great deal for the amount of care he received. He came here illegally, didn't get insurance, didn't pay taxes, and used $90k in healthcare that taxpayers funded. He has to pay, then leave.