Great national service where they can’t even afford to rent and have to go to food cupboards to eat like many of our service members who went in voluntarily. This debate is stupid and out of step with reality.
Plus young Canadians are already competing with the mass influx of new immigrants everywhere they go for jobs, rentals, housing, healthcare, and even at food banks. They’ll revolt before being forced to risk their lives for the people who are actively taking their chance at a good life away
No, they'll just leave. Which is the actual intent of what forced service would do. Continue to drive out our young people, so they can be more easily replaced by those accustomed to Third World quality of life, and the near Serfdom the future holds for any Canadian outside of the landed gentry.
I imagine many businesses would be ecstatic at having young Canadian men go out to war and die so that they can be replaced with temporary citizens who don't have to serve. How does that make you feel?
about as good as reading about our gov making a 30 billion dollar bet on subsidizing bad mortgages so our precious banks stay rich.
or listening to boomers complain about national debt that they benefitted from but don't want to repay.
You can't win either way. If the government does nothing about housing (after all, it's the provinces' jurisdiction) then they are criticised for doing nothing. If they give grants, then they are handing money to large developers who are already making a fortune building housing. And... Polliviere wants to give them even more - who's a friend of the Conservatives, anyway?
Legislature saying for every million dollar apartment they build they have to build at least 4, 250k apartments.
Sure they will cry about it but property developers aren't rich by accident. No one is writing research papers on the plight of the modern millionaire.
One of the things about National Service (whether it be military or otherwise), is that the lack of participation in it can be used to discriminate. I am going to use the US here as an example - the military isn't national service but if you serve you get access to the VA system for life which includes access to VA loans (low rate loans that are almost impossible to foreclose on) and the VA healthcare system
Even though this is about the UK and the author is kinda stretching things, couldn't this issue be solved by instituting mandatory service for those wanting to immigrate who aren't doctors, nurses, or other people Canada actually needs.
Yes and like, joining the military isn't just happy fun times camping and adventure club. Not everyone is physically or mentally suited for the training, and there's always a possibility of actual deployment to somewhere. Most don't see combat, but nobody should be signing up without considering that possibility.
The main character in GTA4 had a great line: War is when the young and stupid are convinced by the old and rich to kill each other (or something like that).
It's all so true.
What if it is another world war scenario? What if it is coming on our shores? What if there is another holocaust scenario and they are doing conscription to stop that?
No judgement either way. I'm just genuinely curious as if the type of battle would change your mind.
Canada has coasted on the fact that the only country positioned to invade -power and logisitics - is the USA; and they won't allow anyone else to do so. So we are under their umbrella, and if they decided to take us over, we would hardly be able to stop them.
And the USA has coasted on the fact that their location makes them fairly impervious to an invasion, the only thing they need fear is MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) as an unltimate endgame in any war.
You forget up north. It is highly undefended. But fair enough. :) The US is our crack head older brother. They love us and care for us but if they need crack, they'll fucken rob us to pay for it.
Up north... ever been in -40 weather? That would make Napoleon's march look like a cakewalk. And they'd be sitting ducks at the tail end of an insurmountable logistics supply line.
Those scenarios don't change my plan, there will always be some attempted moral justification. Even a clear aggressor claims the war is defensive in nature. At the end of the day I'd be murdering random people I've never met and have no actual beef with.
I'd much rather turn my weapon on the politicians who I actually have reason to attack. Watch a session of parliament sometime and tell me any of them actually care about Canadians in the slightest.
Very little would change my mind at this point. To many of our young people, born into a country literally destroying it's self for the profits of a half dozen Oligopolies, the enemies of Canada are the Ones in power.
Train me to fight, hand me a weapon, and tell me to start shooting at those who would destroy our way of life, and you've effectively just pointed me at the legislature in Ottawa or Queens Park in Toronto, unless I can get real Intel or where Galen currently has his nesting doll yacht moored.
Give me survival skills and a weapon, and in another World war, I'm just going off grid, and leaving this shit behind. Invade us, and I MIGHT fight the invaders depending on who it is, but frankly, if we get invaded, the US is going to end up coming to annex us, and frankly, if anyone short of Russia, China, or North Korea comes in, at this point, there's atleast a 50% chance I'd hold the door open for them on the way in.
No, you don't encourage patriotism through indentured servitude, military or otherwise, you do so by creating a nation worth living in, and we aren't even a Fucking nation anymore!
>What if it is another world war scenario? What if it is coming on our shores? What if there is another holocaust scenario and they are doing conscription to stop that?
We never did conscription to stop the holocaust. The soviets just happened to stumble upon concentration camps as they were walking to Berlin. We had no idea this was happening or if our governments did, they did not pass that information to soldiers.
I know that actually. But if you were aware of a holocaust like event going on and Canada was going to go at war to stop that, would you be willing to go?
If not, that is fine. Like no judgement. Just curious.
Honestly, I'd like to say yes, but probably not, if I was I would probably have signed up for the military at some point in my life. I would probably donate to help them win, but I would probably still be reticent to give the money away because I know that some military contractors would be with no morale would be cashing it in.
All in all, my money is probably far more useful on the front line than I am and I'd rather stay here and not take a major pay cut joining the military and risking my skin. My money is probably far more useful than I am and I can generate more of it if I am not on the front line so I have a good excuse to not risk my life lol.
> What if it is another world war scenario?
World War 1 was the result of imperialism and capitalism. Upstart nations like Germany wanting to break into the system forced upon the world by the French and the British. The ideal solution to that was absolutely the working men of those countries turning their guns on the capitalists of those countries. It almost happened, in Germany, near the end, until the Social Democrats betrayed the workers and set the stage for the rise of the Nazis. Said rise, of which, also, only happened because the Nazis in Germany and the fascists in Italy found a lot of support among those same imperialists and capitalists that drove the world to war in the first place.
In the end, and in simple terms, the issue of World War I and II lay in allowing the middle and upper classes the power to influence the development of our world. The solution is to simply remove them from the equation.
I’m 24M and I couldn’t agree more. I’m not fighting in some stupid pointless war, even if America for some reason invaded us. I would say good riddance let’s become a new state.
Let's say it's not the US or somebody whose values are more or less the same. What if it's another holocaust situation? One where you, I dunno, wind up like in Gilead (from the Handsmaids tale)? One that will kill your loved ones or torture them and make you live according to some messed up rules.
Again, you can say that you won't fight back. Not judgement. But I am curious to see how other people think.
Yes, ha ha. Remember the screaming (if you're old enough) when George HW went to war against Saddam for occupying Kuwait in 1991. All those people who had signed up for the national guard, doing an occasional weekend for the extra paycheque, suddenly discovered they could be sent to Saudi Arabia for months on end.
Same happened with the Canadian army, where the most they ever did was stand around being peacekeepers. Then suddenly they were sent to Bosnia in the mid-90's to sit in the middle of an actual shooting war. Some weren't ready for that.
Don't forget the pay being kind of terrible. IIRC, there was a post here about how new recruits are relying on food banks and even have issues with housing as there isn't always base housing available and the wages aren't enough to afford rent.
National service can also be park rangers, maybe intern at cra, etc.
Many countries with mandatory service allow exemptions from military where they can still be of Great benefit to the country.
Key is to pay decent and provide benefits plus a bursary or grant to go off to school after.
Plus decent housing as part of it , on base or otherwise.
The country is out of step with reality too.
It feels like they realize it's fucked and are just stealing the last bit of wealth before moving to the Virgin Islands.
“…that young Canadians are learning to “hate” Canada — and that national service could be the cure.”
As a CAF member, LOLOLOLOL… no. If anything, it’ll make it worse.
Yeah, I'm sure the last thing you would want in your day to day is a huge influx of ppl that don't want to be there. Your guys need more pay, more support, not kids that don't want to be there.
I honestly didn’t even consider that aspect, but you’re right, morale would probably be at an all-time low, and a wide-spread bad attitude in an environment like that would increase the toxicity so badly.
My initial take on it is that the Canadian Military is already running so poorly, so much bureaucracy, such a severe lack of productivity since Covid and the WFH culture. Wait times for everything in the government are so stupidly high… I was somewhat neutral and ignorant to government BS before joining the CAF, and now I’m angry right down to my bones about the state of it.
Forcing a bunch of already angry youngsters into this flaming dumpster fire of an organization is only going to fuel their anger and make them hate everything that much more.
The Canadian military bootcamp corriculum would have to be heavily modified to get conscripts up and running - quite literally. The CAF has way higher physical entrance standards to get in last time I looked 20 years ago.
Best thing that could come out of forcing young angry people to gather together and learn to use weapons is a military coup to take revenge on the government that forced them to be there
I don't think wfh is the problem, I might be misinterpreting what you mean by "wfh culture"
Any analysis I've seen shows that decline in productivity is mostly due to minuscule investment. None of the big players invest in industry and increasing productivity, it all goes to real estate and other bs
Doonesbuy cartoon (Gulf War):
Officer 1 -"What's BD doing over there?"
Officer 2 -"He's telling the young guys old war stories."
Officer 1 - "Good. That should help morale..."
At the other campfire:
Young recruit - "You shot your own officers???!!"
BD - "Just the dumb ones. Mostly lieutenants."
And there wouldn't be enough equipment. So... ummmm one person gets the ammo and another gets the gun, when the one with the gun dies the one with the ammo picks up the gun and shoots.
You will have an easier and more effective time learning how to use a rifle by getting you're firearms license (easier to get than drivers license) and hitting the range. No beurocracy to get in the way.
Young Canadians are learning to "hate" Canada because our politicians do NOTHING for young Canadians. Even middle-aged Canadians are leaving if given the chance.
There's a solution. Start helping Canadians.
Help us into home ownership and not a lifetime of renting.
Control the insurance and telecom companies.
Hold the rich accountable to pay their fair share, corporations aswell.
Invest in Canada instead of selling Canada to the highest forgien bidder.
Gut government redundancies.
Get rid of the red tape and allow small buisness to get off the ground.
Invest in local mom and pop shops, not Starbucks and McDonalds.. etc who syphon profits out.
Lower the fucking taxes.
Close the border loopholes.
Canada should look inward for 5 years. Relax on sending aid to every budding 3rd world nation and send aid to Canadians and Canadian infrastructure.
Every time there’s conversation like this it’s always “start helping Canadians”. After all these years we can’t even say help us more because there hasn’t been any whatsoever
We rent a home in the far west end of Toronto, owner bought it in the 90's for under 200k. Currently, as is unrenovated since the 70's is valued at 1.9 million dollars.
Which means if we somehow came up with 700,000 for a down payment we'd still be paying over 8k a month for 25 years on mortgage alone for a basic traditional starter home.
My wife and I both work full time and cannot even fathom ever owning a house, it's upsetting in a way I can't even clearly convey. Why work hard if 15 year old cars are being sold for their original msrp and home ownership is impossible for anyone not exceptionally wealthy. It's genuinely hard not to give up and throw in the towel, if it wasn't for the kids I probably would have by now.
I don't know what happened to this country, but it feels broken and I have no idea how being forced to join the military does anything to resolve that. Which probably means they'll do it lol.
"I don't know what happened to this country"
I can explain this part:
"15 year old cars are being sold for their original msrp"
Previously, buying and selling a used car happened within Canada, and within its local market. For example, if I was buying/selling a 2010 Toyota Corolla in the Sudbury area, that would be the market that would decide its value.
Now its "world market". If that Corolla can only get 7,000$ in Sudbury, they'll put it on a train and sell it for 9,000$ in Montreal or 11,000$ in Toronto. Or, if its fetches 15,000$ in Morocco, it will go strait there instead of being put for sale in Canada at all. Which means if you want one in good condition, 16,000$ is the new price for it.
More importantly, the prices of new vehicles have risen faster than general inflation. Nobody anywhere would pay $16k for a 15 year old car if the current model could be purchased for $22.5k.
Partially that. I was initially inclined to agree, but I verified my numbers and its not entirely the case.
The example I used just now is the Mazda3. The 2004 base price of the car in 2004 money = 16,195$. When put that amount in 2024 money it becomes 24,984$. The base price of the 2024 Mazda3 is 24,000$.
Calculated using CAD values with the Canada inflation calculator. The automobiles themselves have not become overly expensive. its the fact that they arent selling base-model trim here only the expensive trims that are jacking prices way up.
Basically, if the only trim level of the Mazda3 is the 34,000$ one, the base price is now effectively 34,000$
So the effective price has increased much faster than general inflation, notwithstanding the manufacturers marketing ploy of an extremely limited production base model that is reasonably priced but not widely available.
What would I be serving to protect? An oligarchy that doesn’t give two shits if I live or die. I’d be cannon fodder to protect a corporation’s profit margins and people’s real estate investments. Yeah, I’ll pass thanks.
I will go to jail for draft dodging before I go fight in some rich mans war. Fuck that. At least you come out of jail. You don't always come out of war.
I wouldn't mind being drafted if we were being invaded by an incompatible ideology (such as islam) since then id be fighting for my life and the lives of my loved ones.
but the way this country is treating us? Hell no I am not fighting for the country.
Mandatory national service? Yeah fuck that. I’m going to jail if I have to do that. Why would I fight for a country that doesn’t fight for me? Cares more about people abroad than it’s own born citizens.
I think it's a great idea to take a bunch of young people who the government has outright screwed over at every point possible and give them organizational and weapons training lol! But in all honesty, I've served and it has never made me hate politicians more.
> Here’s where Kheiriddin isn’t entirely off base. Many young Canadians are genuinely disenchanted, and less happy than their parents’ generation. But the force behind this generational divide is not hate. It is Canada’s ongoing milestone recession, a phenomenon felt across the anglosphere, in which young people are finding adulthood’s once-standard achievements increasingly out of grasp.
> Simply put, without family wealth, living in Canada has become a raw deal for young adults, and they know it. This harsh truth is where we should start our conversation on waning patriotism, not with national service.
> Reviving genuine patriotism among young Canadians isn’t about coercing them into national service; it’s about forging a future where they believe they can get out of the milestone recession and thrive. Developed countries that have national service mandates, like Denmark, often pair it with policies like paying young people to go to college, which demonstrate a broader respect for the social contract.
Hey I wouldn't mind a guaranteed job and some money in my pocket if I was freshly 18. I'm 26 (oldest Gen Z) and still can't finish my biomedical engineering degree because I can't afford it, even with OSAP. All I am qualified for are dead end factory and warehouse jobs that pay nothing and I can't save up anything with such high costs of living. Besides, the job market is insanely difficult, especially with the added weight of millions of immigrants, international students and refugees. I feel like I am a car stuck in mud perpetually and my wheels are turning but getting nowhere fast. I'm working on getting my G2 then G license right now and waiting these 2 years then going to work in the oil fields out west or mining anywhere in Canada to save some money then come back and finish school.
Going west and working as a general labourer is definitely an option you should look into. If you think you can handle the work load. Try becoming an apprentice/labourer for a bricklayer/ stone mason. Get your feet in the door there. It’s hard work but rewarding and pays well. I feel for you brother, God bless
Join the reserves? Or the CAF? They'll pay for your school. Like even if you don't qualify for free school during (which is doubtful depending on what you choose as a trade), you get $80,000 for education once you leave.
And some trades have sign on bonuses of $20,000.
Yes. And trust me. We ALL bitch and complain about that.
But it's the same for civie public service unless you go casual. (And reservists are faster.)
And the thing with life is that time marches on.
So yes, you may sign up now and have to wait for a year. But during that year, you'll still be applying for other jobs or being unemployed.
So apply, live your life and then when you get the call, join if you still want to or don't.
But then you'll have the option.
It's like wanting to go back to university to change your career in your 40s. Yes, it will take 4 years. But you'll wind up being 44 anyways.
So you either be 44 with a degree or 44 and wishing you took that degree.
The VAC Education and Training benefit provides 40k after 6 years pensionable service and 80k after 12. Telling people theyll have 80k for school "once they leave" doesnt tell the whole story and sets unreasonable expectations. Also members can pay for schooling while still in the CAF via SDPEER
It doesn't tell the whole story because it's a comment on Reddit. Like people should do the research for themselves. I'm just saying there is. I'm technically working so I'm not going to write the caveats and regulations of a program that I don't run to a bunch of people who are going to skip reading it.
The real problem here is the location of universities in HCOL areas, along with tuition fees. I bet you could afford your degree at a Québec regional university (most are very well respected in the province) where rent would be in the 500-800$/month range with a roommate, and with tuition fees in the $2500 range. Chicoutimi is a great example: good university for engineering, major Air Force base and army reserve force. Imagine Trenton or cold lake having a university that charges 2,500 in tuition, with businesses like rio tinto to work for when you graduate.
I thought I read that Quebec jacked up the tuition for out-of-province residents to international student levels. Mainly to limit the enrollment in English-speaking universities...
McGill law should be charging UofT tuition fees to out of province students. Same with the med school, and the business school. Where I disagree is the idea that we’re educating all these out of province students and they’re all leaving. Nothing is a better sales pitch to live here than spending 4-8 years here. Even if they are leaving, we benefit as a society from people living here and experiencing it, and from them contributing. Our PM is a dinosaur to put it bluntly.
My point is more general in that education should be affordable, not just in Quebec.
>Hey I wouldn't mind a guaranteed job and some money in my pocket if I was freshly 18.
Join the army? You can get your parents to sign your enlistment form when you are 17 if you are worried about delays in being accepted.
Simping for a country where the cost of living is out of reach for many, and for a country who does close to nothing for soldiers once they finish serving.
Great fucking plan. Not at all stupid! /s
They can perform their national service building houses and learning a trade. That's what my relatives in the trades have done -most built their own homes.
Honestly, I'm surprised we haven't seen a return to kit homes like those of 125 years ago.
Why not put new immigrants into Canada through national services. This allows them to acclimatize themselves with Canada and the way of living.
It would also weed out the ones looking to just jump a border and live off other people's food stamps, not prepared to meaningful contribute.
I say this with all seriousness as an immigrant myself..
It's for the same reason that Americans cannot run for office unless they were born in the country - nationalism is a tough habit to break. If Canada ever went to war with their country of origin, the emotional toll of having to fight against their previous home would not only make them dangerous due to increased reaction time, but also due to the potential of becoming a turncoat. It's like how surgeons can't operate on family members, or a judge must recuse themself if they are invested in the outcome of a case. Emotions are impossible to fully suppress - no neurotypical person can go through that without major damage.
What makes this government think just because we make anyone a Canadian they aren’t loyal to their birth country anyway?
Happens all the time. So many have dual citizenship
I agree. It makes way more sense to adopt the American tradition of "you're either with us, or against us", in terms of citizenship. One must relinquish any and all loyalties to other countries when they join ours. I'm not even a nationalist, it's just safer/practical.
It sounds good, but what level of security clearance would you trust them with and how deep would you want their background checks to be? Our background checking system is already slow at processing people born here let alone dumping people from out of country into the system
National service is a dumb idea. The compulsory draft existed for many countries (like in Europe) because of history and the cold war. There is no urgency for an army or some sort of internal "peace corps". Most internal jobs would be either dangerous - fighting forest fires - or rather technical, like fixing water supplies and building houses on reserves. These are hardly jobs for 18-year-olds.
Then there's the inequality. Do we ask our best and brightest to skip going to university for 2 years so they can do menial tasks? Or do we have a system where the children of privileged, who have had the educatin and have the parental support, get to avoid service by going to college?
I would think a better choice would be to put more money into education - university or college, but also teaching trades. We need more house? Train more plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc. Current complaints are that a company takes on an apprentice, then after they train them, they leave. Make it cheaper to have an apprentice. Subsidize them for a year or two after if they stay with the same company. etc. Plenty of options.
Then again, more money into universities and colleges, grants instead of loans, means people graduate with much less debt. When I went to university in the 1970's, I could earn tuition plus living expenses working minimum wage during the summer.
And to pay for it? Tax the larger corporations, who benefit from an educated and trained workforce.
“suggesting, baselessly, that young Canadians are learning to “hate” Canada”
But my dude, they *are* being told that Canada is irredeemably racist and beyound repair. That’s the impression one would get by reading the likes of the Toronto Star’s Shree Paradka, who since immigrating here hasnt had a good word to say about Canada. Only in our country can a “journalist” make a six figure salary partially subsidized by our f—king tax dollars to do little but shit on the country *she choose to immigrate to.*
At least the US pretends to give a shit about its citizens. Canada doesn’t even attempt to feign that notion. Yet they have the nerve to fix their mouths about mandatory service?
Kindly, fuck all the way off. The international “students” can enroll on mandatory service, since they’re who this nation prioritized over actual citizens.
This was a pretty good piece. They’re absolutely bang on: make life more achievable and people will become happier. National service won’t solve this problem, it will only make it worse if living standards aren’t addressed.
But I don’t think national service is necessarily a bad idea. I think every 18 year old could benefit from doing some sort of difficult job (not necessarily military) that forces them out of their comfort zone into new social circles and teaches them practical skills
I agree. It's like what I teach my sons and remind them constantly; Make the hardest part of your day something that ***you*** ***choose***. Make the hardest part of your life something ***you*** ***choose***. Don't let the world fill that hole, because it will, and it will suck.
It doesn't always work, but it's a way better way to live your life.
The only way Canada will see a raise in people wanting to join the army is if Canada is attacked on home soil. Even then I'm not too sure they'd be willing to die for a country that's completely abandoned them.
Maybe the international students will take up arms if they're granted PR
Why would I want to be mandated to enlist in a military that doesn’t even have sufficient funding lol
Like fix your budget issue guys, then you can make me join against my will
I would gladly support the idea of mandatory service If every adult aged 60 or years or younger would also commit to that same service in the first 5 years of this plan being implemented. If they truly believe in the idea of service then they should be put their money where their mouth is.
People are frustrated with their country because they can no longer afford to do anything.
My parents raised four kids on an income between $30,000 and $50,000 per year. Although we didn't have much money, we had everything we needed, including camping trips and skiing. My siblings and I had summer jobs, earning around $2500 over the holidays, which covered expenses for basketball, hockey, clothes, and everything else for the school year. Additionally, my parents owned their home.
Nowadays, earning $50,000 with four kids means living in poverty.
Therefore, I oppose national service.
I don't know, I thought the national service idea sounded pretty good. Mandatory, not so much - but if we could offer significant perks to young folks who enroll for 2, 3, 4 years (i.e. we pay off certain debts, low interest home loans, guaranteed public service jobs, etc.) it wouldn't be so awful to consider.
You get $80,000 for university/college/trades once you leave the CAF after 12 years, $40,000 after 6 years and they'll pay for your school while you are IN the CAF (but you have to stay 2 months in for every month of school.)
And reservists get those benefits too.
Plus as a reservists you only have to do: One evening per week and one weekend per month for training and service. During the summer months from May to August for the first four years after joining, reservists must work full-time.
So it's perfect for university/college job. And in fact ill not only pay for school but allow you to live/save.
For reservists the $40/$80k is based off of days worked not time in, so harder to get those benefits as a reservist unless you've been in a good while.
Yeaaah just floating the idea that potentially sacrificing your life for the good of your countries elites probably shouldn't be the solution?
I mean there's a price on anything, but your own life isn't worth paying off simple debts IMO.
Calm down. Go and ask a Swiss or Finnish person what they thought of their service - it's not all bad.
What can be really bad is the kind of brutal hazing of recruits that occurs in the Russian army and others.
That's what they do in France. Get your drivers license if you do a 1 year service (expensive there because of mandatory lessons), training, new qualifications....
They advertise 50% reimbursement for your studies for the reserves, up to $2k a year. More on it here: [https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/education-training/reimbursements-allowances/education.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/education-training/reimbursements-allowances/education.html), doesn't mention 6 years. is it a lie then? Or are we talking about different programs?
Different program.
Reservists can get up to $2k a year with a lifetime limit of $8k.
All service members can get $40k for six years of service or $80k based off of 12; for reservists is based off of days worked not total time in; so a bit harder to get.
Also, as a reservist you're guaranteed full time summer employment between 01May and 31 Aug each year(or a shorter period if you wish) for your four years.
Sunak’s national service proposal is such a thinly veiled attempt to cover up how absolutely fucked and out of a plan the conservative government is.
What is it proposing? Either 18 year olds are conscripted into the army for one year, or participate in unpaid labour for services like the police, fire department, and national health services.
Essentially what they’re proposing is to use young people to paper over the failing systems the conservative government has spent over a decade de-funding to death. The reason services like healthcare and the police are falling apart in the UK is because they’ve been so underfunded by the government that professionals have fled those fields because they’ve become financially untenable. Now Sunak’s government is proposing that 18 year olds do it for free.
It’s such a sad attempt at policy. The government has looked at the numbers and realized that if the war in Ukraine escalated to a world war, the UK’s armed forces would be completely unprepared. Instead of increasing funding for the army, the plan is to get the kids to do it on the cheap. The army has even come out and said that it’d be unable to accommodate conscripts due to lack of resources.
Likewise, you can’t patch up the holes in the healthcare system with volunteers on the weekends. Nurses, admins, dispatchers, etc. all need training. A rotating door of turnover fuelled by unpaid teenagers on the weekends is just going to be a waste of resources. Training people costs money and time. On-boarding a bunch of people only to have them leave in a year is just going to be a disaster.
Really the situation is this: the conservative government has dedicated itself on a decades long quest to strip down public services. Now that they’ve finally got what they wanted they’re unable to address all the problems they’ve caused. The solution has always been to properly fund public services but because they’d rather line their pockets their proposal is to offload responsibility for keeping the system going onto the shoulders of young people. Worse yet the expect young people to do it for free.
Easier to force others to join rather than fix problems and increase attractiveness.
Of course there will be exemptions for some (wealthy, connected, etc).
So, basically, it's an article by a journalist with The Star bashing on another journalist from National Post?
Can we maybe not entertain journalists picking fights with one another and just stick to stuff our own politicians are actually saying?
I'm an electrician and I'd be happy to do that work, if it paid properly or the pay was at least partially tax exempted. Residential electrical for the most part pays shit, thats why I did utilities and then industrial.
The guys with the biggest families I know (3+ kids) are all in the military.
I work with 2 who live on base with their families and 2 others I know are in the navy out in the Maritimes with huge families.
Interestingly though, none of their wives work. It’s a single income through the military sustaining them.
I don’t know any other couple that can get away with this comfortably.
Politicians are dense. These are the same politicians who think young Canadians will volunteer for war when it comes. They have very little to fight for.
I love my country, but I'm not picking up a gun in the name of the King unless there's a legitimate enemy that needs killing. None of our 'enemies' can even be empirically measured. Who are they and where are they? Every invasion is obfuscated in runarounds and sometimes outright lies.
Conservatives have started discussing the idea here too in response to the UK.
From the article:
>Last week, as the United Kingdom staggered into its latest election cycle, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, grappling with dismal poll numbers after 14 years of tumultuous Conservative rule, resorted to a theatrical gambit: He proposed mandatory national service for British youth to rekindle that country’s fading patriotism.
>Instead of seeing through this blatant voter diversion, Canada’s conservative voices, like the National Post’s Tasha Kheiriddin, have embraced the idea, suggesting, baselessly, that young Canadians are learning to “hate” Canada — and that national service could be the cure.
Lol, dear lord the comments here. I've been in for 20+, and the vast majority who I've seen stay in do so for the stable pay and benefits, because they enjoy the job and the people they work with.
And there's always a posting to look forward too, or different career options within the CAF.
Alot of people I've seen leave are due to being posted to isolated or high cost of living areas and being unable to adapt. Cold Lake and Ottawa are terrible for this, and I certainly don't blame anyone for leaving for any reason.
The gov really needs to pull its head from the sand and help improve recruitment intake and retention of personnel, right now those are the top two threats to the CAF surviving as an organization.
Anyone promoting military national service without addressing the massive issues in our existing military is in fantasy land.
Canadas state is being captured by capital interests hellbent on turning us into some new debt-laden neo-serfdom shit where a moneyed aristocracy controls the whole market.
No. We are far from any threats severe enough that justifies mandatory national service. The young and productive ages should be better left for education or career development
So militarized brainwashing is the answer? Good lordt. Glad I’ll have aged out of “young” if/when this nonsense kicks off. But also, why are we looking to very unpopular last ditch effort policies by an outgoing UK PM desperate to keep his party afloat 😂
I'd say so - all the signs are there:
1. Debased currency
2. Understaffed military
3. Widespread adherence to shame ideology (Christianity/wokeness)
4. Porous borders
5. Floods of refugees
6. Oppressive taxation
7. Growing wealth inequality
8. Government overspending
9. Government corruption
Oh yeah lets arm angry pissed off racist immigrants who feel the world is owed to them. You know Trudeau just announced he's brining in 10,000s of Palestine refugees. You want to arm them too?
Great national service where they can’t even afford to rent and have to go to food cupboards to eat like many of our service members who went in voluntarily. This debate is stupid and out of step with reality.
Plus young Canadians are already competing with the mass influx of new immigrants everywhere they go for jobs, rentals, housing, healthcare, and even at food banks. They’ll revolt before being forced to risk their lives for the people who are actively taking their chance at a good life away
National Service of 5 years if you want a PR. They can live in army barracks. Black Fly season in Petawawa! Awesome!
No, they'll just leave. Which is the actual intent of what forced service would do. Continue to drive out our young people, so they can be more easily replaced by those accustomed to Third World quality of life, and the near Serfdom the future holds for any Canadian outside of the landed gentry.
You know mandatory service won't apply to PR, TFW, or "students".
I imagine many businesses would be ecstatic at having young Canadian men go out to war and die so that they can be replaced with temporary citizens who don't have to serve. How does that make you feel?
about as good as reading about our gov making a 30 billion dollar bet on subsidizing bad mortgages so our precious banks stay rich. or listening to boomers complain about national debt that they benefitted from but don't want to repay.
They backed chmc insured loans, which already are risk free for the banks
You can't win either way. If the government does nothing about housing (after all, it's the provinces' jurisdiction) then they are criticised for doing nothing. If they give grants, then they are handing money to large developers who are already making a fortune building housing. And... Polliviere wants to give them even more - who's a friend of the Conservatives, anyway?
Legislature saying for every million dollar apartment they build they have to build at least 4, 250k apartments. Sure they will cry about it but property developers aren't rich by accident. No one is writing research papers on the plight of the modern millionaire.
I guess that worker shortage storyline has to be manufactured somehow
There was never a worker shortage. There was only corporate greed of suppressing wages while increasing prices.
Yes, just massive wage shortages
That's probably why this idea was proposed lmao.
One of the things about National Service (whether it be military or otherwise), is that the lack of participation in it can be used to discriminate. I am going to use the US here as an example - the military isn't national service but if you serve you get access to the VA system for life which includes access to VA loans (low rate loans that are almost impossible to foreclose on) and the VA healthcare system
I'm sorry, but not getting benefits because you don't want to put in work isn't 'discrimination.'
Even though this is about the UK and the author is kinda stretching things, couldn't this issue be solved by instituting mandatory service for those wanting to immigrate who aren't doctors, nurses, or other people Canada actually needs.
Yes and like, joining the military isn't just happy fun times camping and adventure club. Not everyone is physically or mentally suited for the training, and there's always a possibility of actual deployment to somewhere. Most don't see combat, but nobody should be signing up without considering that possibility.
War is young men dying and old men talking. I'm not signing up to fight some old man's war.
The main character in GTA4 had a great line: War is when the young and stupid are convinced by the old and rich to kill each other (or something like that). It's all so true.
Yep, if there's ever a war with conscription here the only people I'll be shooting will be in fancy suits
What if it is another world war scenario? What if it is coming on our shores? What if there is another holocaust scenario and they are doing conscription to stop that? No judgement either way. I'm just genuinely curious as if the type of battle would change your mind.
Canada has coasted on the fact that the only country positioned to invade -power and logisitics - is the USA; and they won't allow anyone else to do so. So we are under their umbrella, and if they decided to take us over, we would hardly be able to stop them. And the USA has coasted on the fact that their location makes them fairly impervious to an invasion, the only thing they need fear is MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) as an unltimate endgame in any war.
You forget up north. It is highly undefended. But fair enough. :) The US is our crack head older brother. They love us and care for us but if they need crack, they'll fucken rob us to pay for it.
Up north... ever been in -40 weather? That would make Napoleon's march look like a cakewalk. And they'd be sitting ducks at the tail end of an insurmountable logistics supply line.
Trust me. Our borders are constantly probed by Russian and Chinese forces. They also have -40 weather and have quite capable planes.
Those scenarios don't change my plan, there will always be some attempted moral justification. Even a clear aggressor claims the war is defensive in nature. At the end of the day I'd be murdering random people I've never met and have no actual beef with. I'd much rather turn my weapon on the politicians who I actually have reason to attack. Watch a session of parliament sometime and tell me any of them actually care about Canadians in the slightest.
Your opinion is fair. I was just curious.
Very little would change my mind at this point. To many of our young people, born into a country literally destroying it's self for the profits of a half dozen Oligopolies, the enemies of Canada are the Ones in power. Train me to fight, hand me a weapon, and tell me to start shooting at those who would destroy our way of life, and you've effectively just pointed me at the legislature in Ottawa or Queens Park in Toronto, unless I can get real Intel or where Galen currently has his nesting doll yacht moored. Give me survival skills and a weapon, and in another World war, I'm just going off grid, and leaving this shit behind. Invade us, and I MIGHT fight the invaders depending on who it is, but frankly, if we get invaded, the US is going to end up coming to annex us, and frankly, if anyone short of Russia, China, or North Korea comes in, at this point, there's atleast a 50% chance I'd hold the door open for them on the way in. No, you don't encourage patriotism through indentured servitude, military or otherwise, you do so by creating a nation worth living in, and we aren't even a Fucking nation anymore!
>What if it is another world war scenario? What if it is coming on our shores? What if there is another holocaust scenario and they are doing conscription to stop that? We never did conscription to stop the holocaust. The soviets just happened to stumble upon concentration camps as they were walking to Berlin. We had no idea this was happening or if our governments did, they did not pass that information to soldiers.
I know that actually. But if you were aware of a holocaust like event going on and Canada was going to go at war to stop that, would you be willing to go? If not, that is fine. Like no judgement. Just curious.
Honestly, I'd like to say yes, but probably not, if I was I would probably have signed up for the military at some point in my life. I would probably donate to help them win, but I would probably still be reticent to give the money away because I know that some military contractors would be with no morale would be cashing it in. All in all, my money is probably far more useful on the front line than I am and I'd rather stay here and not take a major pay cut joining the military and risking my skin. My money is probably far more useful than I am and I can generate more of it if I am not on the front line so I have a good excuse to not risk my life lol.
That's a fair and reasonable opinion. :)
> What if it is another world war scenario? World War 1 was the result of imperialism and capitalism. Upstart nations like Germany wanting to break into the system forced upon the world by the French and the British. The ideal solution to that was absolutely the working men of those countries turning their guns on the capitalists of those countries. It almost happened, in Germany, near the end, until the Social Democrats betrayed the workers and set the stage for the rise of the Nazis. Said rise, of which, also, only happened because the Nazis in Germany and the fascists in Italy found a lot of support among those same imperialists and capitalists that drove the world to war in the first place. In the end, and in simple terms, the issue of World War I and II lay in allowing the middle and upper classes the power to influence the development of our world. The solution is to simply remove them from the equation.
Then Canada dies. Why would we defend it? Canada doesn't serve Canadians anymore, let it burn.
"War does not determine who is right, only who is left," Bertrand Russell.
I see what he did there
Damn Odysseus
I’m 24M and I couldn’t agree more. I’m not fighting in some stupid pointless war, even if America for some reason invaded us. I would say good riddance let’s become a new state.
Let's say it's not the US or somebody whose values are more or less the same. What if it's another holocaust situation? One where you, I dunno, wind up like in Gilead (from the Handsmaids tale)? One that will kill your loved ones or torture them and make you live according to some messed up rules. Again, you can say that you won't fight back. Not judgement. But I am curious to see how other people think.
[удалено]
You aren't wrong. I do love drones.
Yes, ha ha. Remember the screaming (if you're old enough) when George HW went to war against Saddam for occupying Kuwait in 1991. All those people who had signed up for the national guard, doing an occasional weekend for the extra paycheque, suddenly discovered they could be sent to Saudi Arabia for months on end. Same happened with the Canadian army, where the most they ever did was stand around being peacekeepers. Then suddenly they were sent to Bosnia in the mid-90's to sit in the middle of an actual shooting war. Some weren't ready for that.
Don't forget the pay being kind of terrible. IIRC, there was a post here about how new recruits are relying on food banks and even have issues with housing as there isn't always base housing available and the wages aren't enough to afford rent.
National service can also be park rangers, maybe intern at cra, etc. Many countries with mandatory service allow exemptions from military where they can still be of Great benefit to the country. Key is to pay decent and provide benefits plus a bursary or grant to go off to school after. Plus decent housing as part of it , on base or otherwise.
The country is out of step with reality too. It feels like they realize it's fucked and are just stealing the last bit of wealth before moving to the Virgin Islands.
No political party will fix it in our current cadre
Service means citizenship. Make it like starship troopers. Not serving means you're just a resident and can't vote or have children.
“…that young Canadians are learning to “hate” Canada — and that national service could be the cure.” As a CAF member, LOLOLOLOL… no. If anything, it’ll make it worse.
Yeah, I'm sure the last thing you would want in your day to day is a huge influx of ppl that don't want to be there. Your guys need more pay, more support, not kids that don't want to be there.
I honestly didn’t even consider that aspect, but you’re right, morale would probably be at an all-time low, and a wide-spread bad attitude in an environment like that would increase the toxicity so badly. My initial take on it is that the Canadian Military is already running so poorly, so much bureaucracy, such a severe lack of productivity since Covid and the WFH culture. Wait times for everything in the government are so stupidly high… I was somewhat neutral and ignorant to government BS before joining the CAF, and now I’m angry right down to my bones about the state of it. Forcing a bunch of already angry youngsters into this flaming dumpster fire of an organization is only going to fuel their anger and make them hate everything that much more.
The Canadian military bootcamp corriculum would have to be heavily modified to get conscripts up and running - quite literally. The CAF has way higher physical entrance standards to get in last time I looked 20 years ago.
Best thing that could come out of forcing young angry people to gather together and learn to use weapons is a military coup to take revenge on the government that forced them to be there
I don't think wfh is the problem, I might be misinterpreting what you mean by "wfh culture" Any analysis I've seen shows that decline in productivity is mostly due to minuscule investment. None of the big players invest in industry and increasing productivity, it all goes to real estate and other bs
Doonesbuy cartoon (Gulf War): Officer 1 -"What's BD doing over there?" Officer 2 -"He's telling the young guys old war stories." Officer 1 - "Good. That should help morale..." At the other campfire: Young recruit - "You shot your own officers???!!" BD - "Just the dumb ones. Mostly lieutenants."
And there wouldn't be enough equipment. So... ummmm one person gets the ammo and another gets the gun, when the one with the gun dies the one with the ammo picks up the gun and shoots.
Seconded. Worse. Definitely worse.
Right? It almost reads like a threat, the whole "beatings will continue until morale improves" trope
Except they will know how to use a rifle
You will have an easier and more effective time learning how to use a rifle by getting you're firearms license (easier to get than drivers license) and hitting the range. No beurocracy to get in the way.
I already know how. I have a PAL.
Your commentary was unable to be processed due to incorrect formating. Use the 5w system and resubmit.
Let's get a mad group of people military training , I am sure it will work out.
All politicians should have to do 2 years military service or 2 years living below the poverty line.
They are the same thing
Service guarantees citizenship!
Young Canadians are learning to "hate" Canada because our politicians do NOTHING for young Canadians. Even middle-aged Canadians are leaving if given the chance. There's a solution. Start helping Canadians. Help us into home ownership and not a lifetime of renting. Control the insurance and telecom companies. Hold the rich accountable to pay their fair share, corporations aswell. Invest in Canada instead of selling Canada to the highest forgien bidder. Gut government redundancies. Get rid of the red tape and allow small buisness to get off the ground. Invest in local mom and pop shops, not Starbucks and McDonalds.. etc who syphon profits out. Lower the fucking taxes. Close the border loopholes. Canada should look inward for 5 years. Relax on sending aid to every budding 3rd world nation and send aid to Canadians and Canadian infrastructure.
Every time there’s conversation like this it’s always “start helping Canadians”. After all these years we can’t even say help us more because there hasn’t been any whatsoever
We rent a home in the far west end of Toronto, owner bought it in the 90's for under 200k. Currently, as is unrenovated since the 70's is valued at 1.9 million dollars. Which means if we somehow came up with 700,000 for a down payment we'd still be paying over 8k a month for 25 years on mortgage alone for a basic traditional starter home. My wife and I both work full time and cannot even fathom ever owning a house, it's upsetting in a way I can't even clearly convey. Why work hard if 15 year old cars are being sold for their original msrp and home ownership is impossible for anyone not exceptionally wealthy. It's genuinely hard not to give up and throw in the towel, if it wasn't for the kids I probably would have by now. I don't know what happened to this country, but it feels broken and I have no idea how being forced to join the military does anything to resolve that. Which probably means they'll do it lol.
"I don't know what happened to this country" I can explain this part: "15 year old cars are being sold for their original msrp" Previously, buying and selling a used car happened within Canada, and within its local market. For example, if I was buying/selling a 2010 Toyota Corolla in the Sudbury area, that would be the market that would decide its value. Now its "world market". If that Corolla can only get 7,000$ in Sudbury, they'll put it on a train and sell it for 9,000$ in Montreal or 11,000$ in Toronto. Or, if its fetches 15,000$ in Morocco, it will go strait there instead of being put for sale in Canada at all. Which means if you want one in good condition, 16,000$ is the new price for it.
More importantly, the prices of new vehicles have risen faster than general inflation. Nobody anywhere would pay $16k for a 15 year old car if the current model could be purchased for $22.5k.
Partially that. I was initially inclined to agree, but I verified my numbers and its not entirely the case. The example I used just now is the Mazda3. The 2004 base price of the car in 2004 money = 16,195$. When put that amount in 2024 money it becomes 24,984$. The base price of the 2024 Mazda3 is 24,000$. Calculated using CAD values with the Canada inflation calculator. The automobiles themselves have not become overly expensive. its the fact that they arent selling base-model trim here only the expensive trims that are jacking prices way up. Basically, if the only trim level of the Mazda3 is the 34,000$ one, the base price is now effectively 34,000$
So the effective price has increased much faster than general inflation, notwithstanding the manufacturers marketing ploy of an extremely limited production base model that is reasonably priced but not widely available.
You can still absolutely get the $24000 you just have to order it and wait 9 months , I did it with my base model ford maverick
New cars are like $40k
That’s on the low end too.
I bought a 2008 Prius that was a taxi in Sudbury for 15k marked down from 20k. Guess it's not valuable in Sudbury. Your comment hits close to home.
Leave Toronto if you want a house it's that simple hard than it used to be but get out before it's impossible
What would I be serving to protect? An oligarchy that doesn’t give two shits if I live or die. I’d be cannon fodder to protect a corporation’s profit margins and people’s real estate investments. Yeah, I’ll pass thanks.
But your service will protect real value for shareholders.
Can't disagree. Blind loyalty and patriotism is a fool's game. The elites of the country have betrayed the people for their power, control, and money.
Join the Navy, see the world, die protecting Temu orders and Lamborghinis.
Actually funny.
> What would I be serving to protect? Loblaws' stores.
Don't forget robelus infrastructure!
> What would I be serving to protect? Landlords.
I will go to jail for draft dodging before I go fight in some rich mans war. Fuck that. At least you come out of jail. You don't always come out of war.
I wouldn't mind being drafted if we were being invaded by an incompatible ideology (such as islam) since then id be fighting for my life and the lives of my loved ones. but the way this country is treating us? Hell no I am not fighting for the country.
Service guarentees ^(Home Ownership)
Mandatory national service? Yeah fuck that. I’m going to jail if I have to do that. Why would I fight for a country that doesn’t fight for me? Cares more about people abroad than it’s own born citizens.
I think it's a great idea to take a bunch of young people who the government has outright screwed over at every point possible and give them organizational and weapons training lol! But in all honesty, I've served and it has never made me hate politicians more.
I’m no pro but my guess is everyone senses incoming global instability and wants to be ready I’m less pessimistic but… yeah
😂😂It's okay these youngster having nothing to lose! Oh wait...😦😦
If the government wants me to don boots to stomp necks for the state they'll have to come find me first.
Nobody wants to serve a country that is trying its damndest to make them poor and homeless.
The biggest enemy to Young Canadians is our own Government.
Why the F is there a picture of the British PM?
The UK wants to do it and this article is in response to the National Post suggesting Canada should do it as well. It's in the article.
Cause it is the UK that wants to bring back National Service not Canada. someone tryingto cause trouble by using Canada name
The article explains it, it was actually my best read today, hope you enjoy it too.
It's the UK doing this and the article is trying to pin it on the Conservatives here.
> Here’s where Kheiriddin isn’t entirely off base. Many young Canadians are genuinely disenchanted, and less happy than their parents’ generation. But the force behind this generational divide is not hate. It is Canada’s ongoing milestone recession, a phenomenon felt across the anglosphere, in which young people are finding adulthood’s once-standard achievements increasingly out of grasp. > Simply put, without family wealth, living in Canada has become a raw deal for young adults, and they know it. This harsh truth is where we should start our conversation on waning patriotism, not with national service. > Reviving genuine patriotism among young Canadians isn’t about coercing them into national service; it’s about forging a future where they believe they can get out of the milestone recession and thrive. Developed countries that have national service mandates, like Denmark, often pair it with policies like paying young people to go to college, which demonstrate a broader respect for the social contract.
the gov is too busy lining their rich friends pockets to spend money on us serfs.
Hey I wouldn't mind a guaranteed job and some money in my pocket if I was freshly 18. I'm 26 (oldest Gen Z) and still can't finish my biomedical engineering degree because I can't afford it, even with OSAP. All I am qualified for are dead end factory and warehouse jobs that pay nothing and I can't save up anything with such high costs of living. Besides, the job market is insanely difficult, especially with the added weight of millions of immigrants, international students and refugees. I feel like I am a car stuck in mud perpetually and my wheels are turning but getting nowhere fast. I'm working on getting my G2 then G license right now and waiting these 2 years then going to work in the oil fields out west or mining anywhere in Canada to save some money then come back and finish school.
Going west and working as a general labourer is definitely an option you should look into. If you think you can handle the work load. Try becoming an apprentice/labourer for a bricklayer/ stone mason. Get your feet in the door there. It’s hard work but rewarding and pays well. I feel for you brother, God bless
Join the reserves? Or the CAF? They'll pay for your school. Like even if you don't qualify for free school during (which is doubtful depending on what you choose as a trade), you get $80,000 for education once you leave. And some trades have sign on bonuses of $20,000.
Will take a year+ to get the application processed
Yes. And trust me. We ALL bitch and complain about that. But it's the same for civie public service unless you go casual. (And reservists are faster.) And the thing with life is that time marches on. So yes, you may sign up now and have to wait for a year. But during that year, you'll still be applying for other jobs or being unemployed. So apply, live your life and then when you get the call, join if you still want to or don't. But then you'll have the option. It's like wanting to go back to university to change your career in your 40s. Yes, it will take 4 years. But you'll wind up being 44 anyways. So you either be 44 with a degree or 44 and wishing you took that degree.
The VAC Education and Training benefit provides 40k after 6 years pensionable service and 80k after 12. Telling people theyll have 80k for school "once they leave" doesnt tell the whole story and sets unreasonable expectations. Also members can pay for schooling while still in the CAF via SDPEER
It doesn't tell the whole story because it's a comment on Reddit. Like people should do the research for themselves. I'm just saying there is. I'm technically working so I'm not going to write the caveats and regulations of a program that I don't run to a bunch of people who are going to skip reading it.
The real problem here is the location of universities in HCOL areas, along with tuition fees. I bet you could afford your degree at a Québec regional university (most are very well respected in the province) where rent would be in the 500-800$/month range with a roommate, and with tuition fees in the $2500 range. Chicoutimi is a great example: good university for engineering, major Air Force base and army reserve force. Imagine Trenton or cold lake having a university that charges 2,500 in tuition, with businesses like rio tinto to work for when you graduate.
Keep dreaming, 2 bedrooms apt are quite often over 1400$ now in Chicoutimi.
I thought I read that Quebec jacked up the tuition for out-of-province residents to international student levels. Mainly to limit the enrollment in English-speaking universities...
McGill law should be charging UofT tuition fees to out of province students. Same with the med school, and the business school. Where I disagree is the idea that we’re educating all these out of province students and they’re all leaving. Nothing is a better sales pitch to live here than spending 4-8 years here. Even if they are leaving, we benefit as a society from people living here and experiencing it, and from them contributing. Our PM is a dinosaur to put it bluntly. My point is more general in that education should be affordable, not just in Quebec.
>Hey I wouldn't mind a guaranteed job and some money in my pocket if I was freshly 18. Join the army? You can get your parents to sign your enlistment form when you are 17 if you are worried about delays in being accepted.
Simping for a country where the cost of living is out of reach for many, and for a country who does close to nothing for soldiers once they finish serving. Great fucking plan. Not at all stupid! /s
They can perform their national service building houses and learning a trade. That's what my relatives in the trades have done -most built their own homes. Honestly, I'm surprised we haven't seen a return to kit homes like those of 125 years ago.
Fight for a country that is run by grocerers, telecom companies and foreign real estate investors? Nah fam I’m good.
Why not put new immigrants into Canada through national services. This allows them to acclimatize themselves with Canada and the way of living. It would also weed out the ones looking to just jump a border and live off other people's food stamps, not prepared to meaningful contribute. I say this with all seriousness as an immigrant myself..
It's for the same reason that Americans cannot run for office unless they were born in the country - nationalism is a tough habit to break. If Canada ever went to war with their country of origin, the emotional toll of having to fight against their previous home would not only make them dangerous due to increased reaction time, but also due to the potential of becoming a turncoat. It's like how surgeons can't operate on family members, or a judge must recuse themself if they are invested in the outcome of a case. Emotions are impossible to fully suppress - no neurotypical person can go through that without major damage.
What makes this government think just because we make anyone a Canadian they aren’t loyal to their birth country anyway? Happens all the time. So many have dual citizenship
I agree. It makes way more sense to adopt the American tradition of "you're either with us, or against us", in terms of citizenship. One must relinquish any and all loyalties to other countries when they join ours. I'm not even a nationalist, it's just safer/practical.
It sounds good, but what level of security clearance would you trust them with and how deep would you want their background checks to be? Our background checking system is already slow at processing people born here let alone dumping people from out of country into the system
I'm not fighting for a country that puts its citizens last.
Canada teaches its own children that their country doesn’t belong to them at the ripe old age of 8. I wonder why nationalism is so low…
Huh? Trying to rekindle patriotism?? Do they think that’ll happen by Stockholm syndrome?
National service is a dumb idea. The compulsory draft existed for many countries (like in Europe) because of history and the cold war. There is no urgency for an army or some sort of internal "peace corps". Most internal jobs would be either dangerous - fighting forest fires - or rather technical, like fixing water supplies and building houses on reserves. These are hardly jobs for 18-year-olds. Then there's the inequality. Do we ask our best and brightest to skip going to university for 2 years so they can do menial tasks? Or do we have a system where the children of privileged, who have had the educatin and have the parental support, get to avoid service by going to college? I would think a better choice would be to put more money into education - university or college, but also teaching trades. We need more house? Train more plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc. Current complaints are that a company takes on an apprentice, then after they train them, they leave. Make it cheaper to have an apprentice. Subsidize them for a year or two after if they stay with the same company. etc. Plenty of options. Then again, more money into universities and colleges, grants instead of loans, means people graduate with much less debt. When I went to university in the 1970's, I could earn tuition plus living expenses working minimum wage during the summer. And to pay for it? Tax the larger corporations, who benefit from an educated and trained workforce.
I wouldn't fight for this country if we were being actively invaded beyond protecting my own kin. Fuck dying for rich people.
“suggesting, baselessly, that young Canadians are learning to “hate” Canada” But my dude, they *are* being told that Canada is irredeemably racist and beyound repair. That’s the impression one would get by reading the likes of the Toronto Star’s Shree Paradka, who since immigrating here hasnt had a good word to say about Canada. Only in our country can a “journalist” make a six figure salary partially subsidized by our f—king tax dollars to do little but shit on the country *she choose to immigrate to.*
Grifting is our culture now.
Not a single war I would agree to take part in but thanks tho
Rishi Sunak is worth around 700 million dollars and his father has almost 5 billion, I'll serve if you bring in a wealth tax....
At least the US pretends to give a shit about its citizens. Canada doesn’t even attempt to feign that notion. Yet they have the nerve to fix their mouths about mandatory service? Kindly, fuck all the way off. The international “students” can enroll on mandatory service, since they’re who this nation prioritized over actual citizens.
This was a pretty good piece. They’re absolutely bang on: make life more achievable and people will become happier. National service won’t solve this problem, it will only make it worse if living standards aren’t addressed. But I don’t think national service is necessarily a bad idea. I think every 18 year old could benefit from doing some sort of difficult job (not necessarily military) that forces them out of their comfort zone into new social circles and teaches them practical skills
I agree. It's like what I teach my sons and remind them constantly; Make the hardest part of your day something that ***you*** ***choose***. Make the hardest part of your life something ***you*** ***choose***. Don't let the world fill that hole, because it will, and it will suck. It doesn't always work, but it's a way better way to live your life.
The only way Canada will see a raise in people wanting to join the army is if Canada is attacked on home soil. Even then I'm not too sure they'd be willing to die for a country that's completely abandoned them. Maybe the international students will take up arms if they're granted PR
So...Cannot afford anything, and then forced into servitude? That's slavery, mate.
Might get fkd in the o.
The military made me hate politicians, especially the current regime
Why would I want to be mandated to enlist in a military that doesn’t even have sufficient funding lol Like fix your budget issue guys, then you can make me join against my will
Jail is preferable to being drafted into some misguided military conflict, by the political idiots du jour.
I serve, i cant buy a house... i also cant wait for my pension to leave canada
What a shit era we live in
I would gladly support the idea of mandatory service If every adult aged 60 or years or younger would also commit to that same service in the first 5 years of this plan being implemented. If they truly believe in the idea of service then they should be put their money where their mouth is.
People are frustrated with their country because they can no longer afford to do anything. My parents raised four kids on an income between $30,000 and $50,000 per year. Although we didn't have much money, we had everything we needed, including camping trips and skiing. My siblings and I had summer jobs, earning around $2500 over the holidays, which covered expenses for basketball, hockey, clothes, and everything else for the school year. Additionally, my parents owned their home. Nowadays, earning $50,000 with four kids means living in poverty. Therefore, I oppose national service.
I don't know, I thought the national service idea sounded pretty good. Mandatory, not so much - but if we could offer significant perks to young folks who enroll for 2, 3, 4 years (i.e. we pay off certain debts, low interest home loans, guaranteed public service jobs, etc.) it wouldn't be so awful to consider.
You get $80,000 for university/college/trades once you leave the CAF after 12 years, $40,000 after 6 years and they'll pay for your school while you are IN the CAF (but you have to stay 2 months in for every month of school.) And reservists get those benefits too. Plus as a reservists you only have to do: One evening per week and one weekend per month for training and service. During the summer months from May to August for the first four years after joining, reservists must work full-time. So it's perfect for university/college job. And in fact ill not only pay for school but allow you to live/save.
For reservists the $40/$80k is based off of days worked not time in, so harder to get those benefits as a reservist unless you've been in a good while.
Yeaaah just floating the idea that potentially sacrificing your life for the good of your countries elites probably shouldn't be the solution? I mean there's a price on anything, but your own life isn't worth paying off simple debts IMO.
LOL "national service" doesn't mean going out on the front lines and fighting in a war. SMH.
Calm down. Go and ask a Swiss or Finnish person what they thought of their service - it's not all bad. What can be really bad is the kind of brutal hazing of recruits that occurs in the Russian army and others.
That's what they do in France. Get your drivers license if you do a 1 year service (expensive there because of mandatory lessons), training, new qualifications....
We already have a program where they'll pay for your university education in exchange for your service.
You need 6 years service. I know because I did it
hmm that seems like it rides the line of is it or is it not worth it
They'll also pay while you are in.
They advertise 50% reimbursement for your studies for the reserves, up to $2k a year. More on it here: [https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/education-training/reimbursements-allowances/education.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/education-training/reimbursements-allowances/education.html), doesn't mention 6 years. is it a lie then? Or are we talking about different programs?
Different program. Reservists can get up to $2k a year with a lifetime limit of $8k. All service members can get $40k for six years of service or $80k based off of 12; for reservists is based off of days worked not total time in; so a bit harder to get. Also, as a reservist you're guaranteed full time summer employment between 01May and 31 Aug each year(or a shorter period if you wish) for your four years.
Sunak’s national service proposal is such a thinly veiled attempt to cover up how absolutely fucked and out of a plan the conservative government is. What is it proposing? Either 18 year olds are conscripted into the army for one year, or participate in unpaid labour for services like the police, fire department, and national health services. Essentially what they’re proposing is to use young people to paper over the failing systems the conservative government has spent over a decade de-funding to death. The reason services like healthcare and the police are falling apart in the UK is because they’ve been so underfunded by the government that professionals have fled those fields because they’ve become financially untenable. Now Sunak’s government is proposing that 18 year olds do it for free. It’s such a sad attempt at policy. The government has looked at the numbers and realized that if the war in Ukraine escalated to a world war, the UK’s armed forces would be completely unprepared. Instead of increasing funding for the army, the plan is to get the kids to do it on the cheap. The army has even come out and said that it’d be unable to accommodate conscripts due to lack of resources. Likewise, you can’t patch up the holes in the healthcare system with volunteers on the weekends. Nurses, admins, dispatchers, etc. all need training. A rotating door of turnover fuelled by unpaid teenagers on the weekends is just going to be a waste of resources. Training people costs money and time. On-boarding a bunch of people only to have them leave in a year is just going to be a disaster. Really the situation is this: the conservative government has dedicated itself on a decades long quest to strip down public services. Now that they’ve finally got what they wanted they’re unable to address all the problems they’ve caused. The solution has always been to properly fund public services but because they’d rather line their pockets their proposal is to offload responsibility for keeping the system going onto the shoulders of young people. Worse yet the expect young people to do it for free.
Yeah, we’ve gone full serfdom
How about mandatory national service for anyone that wants permanent residency?
I would rather be jailed then fight for canada.
I do wonder how that mandatory national service shit will go in Northern Ireland.
That guy's had enough to drink. Call him a taxi & send him home
Easier to force others to join rather than fix problems and increase attractiveness. Of course there will be exemptions for some (wealthy, connected, etc).
So, basically, it's an article by a journalist with The Star bashing on another journalist from National Post? Can we maybe not entertain journalists picking fights with one another and just stick to stuff our own politicians are actually saying?
National service of home builders would be cool!
I'm an electrician and I'd be happy to do that work, if it paid properly or the pay was at least partially tax exempted. Residential electrical for the most part pays shit, thats why I did utilities and then industrial.
The guys with the biggest families I know (3+ kids) are all in the military. I work with 2 who live on base with their families and 2 others I know are in the navy out in the Maritimes with huge families. Interestingly though, none of their wives work. It’s a single income through the military sustaining them. I don’t know any other couple that can get away with this comfortably.
Politicians are dense. These are the same politicians who think young Canadians will volunteer for war when it comes. They have very little to fight for.
Another stupid opinion piece, omg! Journalist write about “Fact” not opinions. Get off the soap box!!
It's like we ran out of money to tax, so now they want to tax our time & effort lmao.
Anyone who makes a law forcing military service should also be forced to participate.
I love my country, but I'm not picking up a gun in the name of the King unless there's a legitimate enemy that needs killing. None of our 'enemies' can even be empirically measured. Who are they and where are they? Every invasion is obfuscated in runarounds and sometimes outright lies.
The enemy are the government and corporations. Idk how people don't see it.
Military service has been rewarded with real estate throughout much of history. Just sayin.
When you send them abroad to die,they have no need for home nor parenthood.
[удалено]
Conservatives have started discussing the idea here too in response to the UK. From the article: >Last week, as the United Kingdom staggered into its latest election cycle, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, grappling with dismal poll numbers after 14 years of tumultuous Conservative rule, resorted to a theatrical gambit: He proposed mandatory national service for British youth to rekindle that country’s fading patriotism. >Instead of seeing through this blatant voter diversion, Canada’s conservative voices, like the National Post’s Tasha Kheiriddin, have embraced the idea, suggesting, baselessly, that young Canadians are learning to “hate” Canada — and that national service could be the cure.
[удалено]
Canada is a fucking jooooke
Lol, dear lord the comments here. I've been in for 20+, and the vast majority who I've seen stay in do so for the stable pay and benefits, because they enjoy the job and the people they work with. And there's always a posting to look forward too, or different career options within the CAF. Alot of people I've seen leave are due to being posted to isolated or high cost of living areas and being unable to adapt. Cold Lake and Ottawa are terrible for this, and I certainly don't blame anyone for leaving for any reason. The gov really needs to pull its head from the sand and help improve recruitment intake and retention of personnel, right now those are the top two threats to the CAF surviving as an organization. Anyone promoting military national service without addressing the massive issues in our existing military is in fantasy land.
We don’t have the required manning nor equipment state to make national service work. The training schools are burned out enough already.
Canadas state is being captured by capital interests hellbent on turning us into some new debt-laden neo-serfdom shit where a moneyed aristocracy controls the whole market.
No. We are far from any threats severe enough that justifies mandatory national service. The young and productive ages should be better left for education or career development
[удалено]
So militarized brainwashing is the answer? Good lordt. Glad I’ll have aged out of “young” if/when this nonsense kicks off. But also, why are we looking to very unpopular last ditch effort policies by an outgoing UK PM desperate to keep his party afloat 😂
Ah yes, more disposable heros to prop up the will of ivory tower politicos
[удалено]
Straight to late stage Roman empire - I like that.
Well the coffers are emptying into the hands of a select few. We may be there already.
I'd say so - all the signs are there: 1. Debased currency 2. Understaffed military 3. Widespread adherence to shame ideology (Christianity/wokeness) 4. Porous borders 5. Floods of refugees 6. Oppressive taxation 7. Growing wealth inequality 8. Government overspending 9. Government corruption
Awe fuck. Quick let's Crusade! That always fixes everything everytime.
We do have a scheme where newcomers can join the CAF and get citizenship. Like 12 people signed up.
Oh yeah lets arm angry pissed off racist immigrants who feel the world is owed to them. You know Trudeau just announced he's brining in 10,000s of Palestine refugees. You want to arm them too?
Well.... If they wanna come live here they'll have to prove it, attach citizenship to exemplary performance.