I grew up in Northern Ontario and probably would have moved back after university if I was in a field that actually had jobs out there. If you're a teacher or a nurse, you can make the same wage in the north, but the cost of living is so much less and you won't have to deal with dreadful commutes.
I wonder if they plan to keep it that way and build new homes to accomodate the population influx. Or do they just want to bring up property values and no longer feel left out of the property investment club?
That sadly is probably the case. If they were actually trying to attact more tradespeople, doctors and health workers here that would be great, but we don't need any more students or TFW here, Walmart and Tim Hortons have more than enough people to exploit for cheap labour. And if you're a doctor, why would you willingly move here of all places if you can work literally anywhere else and make the same or more? Unless you really love nature and super cold winters that is.
The pitch needs more than affordability in mind. What are the industries and companies hiring there? Teachers and healthcare providers can certainly find work, but those are jobs that support a growing pop and are publicly funded. If a community can't bring in enough private dollars to support itself, then the growth isn't sustainable.
What would drive growth in Thunder Bay? What are people making, inventing, creating, or building there? Whose headquarters are there? I know there's a big mining industry there, and remote workers can move there, but that doesn't seem like enough for a city to really have a boom on the level that politicians are hoping for.
I really am cheering for small cities like this to take off, we really need it to happen more in Canada, but the case needs to be more compelling imo. I don't think a city's economy can really be built around being an affordable place for remote workers to set up their laptops.
I live in Thunder Bay and don't see how Thunder Bay is depressing or dead? Is our city council a bunch of morons, absolutely! But dead and depressing is not accurate.
No.
One of the sunniest cities in all of Canada.
Population growth.
Most diverse city of its size in Canada.
Major stop for Great Lake cruise tours.
Nature all around.
[Mount McKay ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_McKay?wprov=sfla1)
[Sleeping Giant ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Giant_%28Ontario%29?wprov=sfla1)
[Ouimet Canyon ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouimet_Canyon?wprov=sfla1)
[Kakabeka Falls ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakabeka_Falls?wprov=sfla1)
If you appreciate nature some of the local examples
I went to school up there and loved it. My people are in southern Ontario so I moved back but I visit t bay when I can. They have a lot of cool local places and the outdoors are amazing. Most of all the people there are wonderful.
That Canadaland podcast really sank their reputation huh? Never been anywhere near the place,so I can't say how warranted it is, but it's crazy how often that's people's first reaction when Thunder Bay is mentioned even years later. Can't deny that's some effective journalism.
Barbara Kentner was walking on the side of the road (not selling drugs) when Brayden Bushby killed her by tossing a trailer hitch out of a moving vehicle.
That's Thunder Bay for you.
If Thunder Bay really wants to seriously attract new people, besides broke international students who barely speak English, they need to start BUILDING HOMES. You need to sell affordability, with familiar luxuries, as that is the main selling point of any upwardly mobile city going forward.
TB has great nature, and a great teaching hospital. It’s not flat and seems to have many amenities. It’s also nowhere near as snowy as people think. It snows more than Toronto, but much less than Northeastern Ontario cities like Sudbury and North Bay. I’m rooting for the city.
Many of the homes seem to have no garage and very few are new-ish. The ones that are new-ish seem insanely overpriced. IDK. So much space and so little new development, while trying to attract new residents is a turn off.
The rent is also quite high, relative to what the city offers. Way higher than the $1200 quoted. So it seems like TB just wants a real estate bubble like most other cities in Ontario. No thanks. May as well stay in Southern Ontario at that rate.
Spoken like someone that hasn't lived here nor visited
One of the sunniest cities in all of Canada.
Didn't have snow until January this year.
Summers above average temperature in Canada.
I've lived here for most of my life, convenient you're mostly talking about the much shorter summer months. Last winter was an anomaly, winters here are usually brutal and last almost half the year. And if you're attracting people who mostly ride the bus and walk everywhere it sucks getting around in the winter and having to wait at a stop in below 30 degree weather for up to 40 minutes.
Oh yeah which reminds me, the public transportation in this city is notoriously shit, I've had multiple buses just fail to show up entirely without any warning, this isn't a rare occurrence either. And if you don't have a car you will be around drug use and public alcohol consumption, guaranteed. Both bus terminals are in sketchy areas you wouldn't want to be stuck waiting at night, I'm speaking from experience. And no I don't deal or do drugs, I do see tons of used needles all over the place though.
Right? I lived in Thunder Bay for a couple years, and what I remember most is the biting cold months, forgetting to plug in my car's block heater and being late for work as a result, and the nights when frost would form on my apartment's walls because it was -35C with a windchill of -45C.
OP is seriously pitching a place where the [daily mean temperature is 2.7C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_Bay#Climate) as "Summers above average temperature in Canada". Like, duh, most of Canada's landmass is frozen wilderness. Most people live in the warmer areas. The Windsor-Quebec City corridor, Vancouver, the Maritimes. All warmer, some of them significantly so.
Just because TB has a warmer climate than the prairies doesn't make it nicer than most of the places in Canada people actually live.
It's only a decently nice place to live if you have your own vehicle, if you don't it fucking blows. You can't exactly take a bus out to the falls or the sleeping giant. The buses here are awful too, they are frequently late or don't even show up at all, so if you rely on them to get to work, school, appointments, etc, it really sucks, especially in the winter months (which are normally long and brutal here). I assume most of the people they will attract will be younger international workers who probably don't have their own vehicles, because families need to make sure they can line up decent jobs before just moving to a new city.
Also home prices may be low but rent is definitely higher than the $1200 they mention in the article. I was looking not long ago and saw a small place that didn't even have a kitchen in the unit (or access to one in the building) going for around that much, and on top of that it was in a shitty area of town too. They are probably getting that stat by including people who already got their apartments years ago and are paying much lower rent, because their landlords can't legally jack up the prices to what you would be charged if you moved into that exact same apartment now vs several years ago.
Part of living in most every small town and rural area is owning a vehicle. Agreed, going carless is not easy. The quality of life is a lot better if you like the outdoors.
I grew up in Thunder Bay and lived there for 21 years before moving to Southern Ontario and more recently Europe. The major issue is that there are limited opportunities in the private sector unless your willing to commute abroad to the oil sands or the mines to make a decent income. There are a lot of government jobs but beyond that its not exactly a booming or expanding area. Significant issues with mental health, addictions and homelessness alongside the intertwined racial issues between the indigenous population and white community in Thunder Bay. Lots of small town mentality as well when it comes to things like developing housing, walkable city planning and more.
Northern Ontario is absolutely beautiful if your an outdoors person, you enjoy the wilderness and are willing to invest in things like a trailer or boat. Lots of hiking opportunities and sports activities like hiking, skiing and snowboarding in the winter.
My biggest issue beyond the jobs was the isolation. Even more so now with Westjet only flying West and no direct international travel options. Its an 8 hour drive to Winnipeg and 8 hours to Sault Ste. Marie. If you drive south its 4 hours to Duluth across the border into the United States. That means unless its in Thunder Bay its either incredibly expensive to go and attend a cultural event, they don't come to Thunder Bay or you just don't get access to it. Northern Ontario as well is dying off with the numerous small towns failing. Thunder Bay is affordable for a reason because it has some significant drawbacks and the demand isnt there regardless of the population growth. It can be absolutely beautiful, and there are quite nice people there. People are actively trying to improve it but for me I'd never move back.
I grew up in Northern Ontario and probably would have moved back after university if I was in a field that actually had jobs out there. If you're a teacher or a nurse, you can make the same wage in the north, but the cost of living is so much less and you won't have to deal with dreadful commutes.
I wonder if they plan to keep it that way and build new homes to accomodate the population influx. Or do they just want to bring up property values and no longer feel left out of the property investment club?
That sadly is probably the case. If they were actually trying to attact more tradespeople, doctors and health workers here that would be great, but we don't need any more students or TFW here, Walmart and Tim Hortons have more than enough people to exploit for cheap labour. And if you're a doctor, why would you willingly move here of all places if you can work literally anywhere else and make the same or more? Unless you really love nature and super cold winters that is.
The Venn diagram of municipal politicians/staffers and real estate is very saturated
Well for doctors and nurses your cost of living is much lower, so your money goes a long way. I agree with the rest of what you are saying
It’s always the property values group who wants to benefit lol.
If I wasn't getting drunk on a Friday, I might look up what the zoning situation is.
Its safe to assume its all zoned for single family housing and new developements face rabid opposition.
The pitch needs more than affordability in mind. What are the industries and companies hiring there? Teachers and healthcare providers can certainly find work, but those are jobs that support a growing pop and are publicly funded. If a community can't bring in enough private dollars to support itself, then the growth isn't sustainable. What would drive growth in Thunder Bay? What are people making, inventing, creating, or building there? Whose headquarters are there? I know there's a big mining industry there, and remote workers can move there, but that doesn't seem like enough for a city to really have a boom on the level that politicians are hoping for. I really am cheering for small cities like this to take off, we really need it to happen more in Canada, but the case needs to be more compelling imo. I don't think a city's economy can really be built around being an affordable place for remote workers to set up their laptops.
Isn’t it depressing and dead though?
I live in Thunder Bay and don't see how Thunder Bay is depressing or dead? Is our city council a bunch of morons, absolutely! But dead and depressing is not accurate.
City council being a bunch of morons could describe most towns or cities in the world, tbh.
>our city council a bunch of morons Par for the course afaic.
Been there a few times. I absolutely love your city and everything it has to offer.
Would you move to it tho
Toronto’s city counsel is probably much worse.
No. One of the sunniest cities in all of Canada. Population growth. Most diverse city of its size in Canada. Major stop for Great Lake cruise tours. Nature all around.
One of the major metropolitan cities on Lake Superior.
Sounds pretty good.
[Mount McKay ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_McKay?wprov=sfla1) [Sleeping Giant ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Giant_%28Ontario%29?wprov=sfla1) [Ouimet Canyon ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouimet_Canyon?wprov=sfla1) [Kakabeka Falls ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakabeka_Falls?wprov=sfla1) If you appreciate nature some of the local examples
No pro sports. No big name entertainment. Pass.
See ya!
I thought it was high on meth
I mean, we have an addiction epidemic in the GTA and nearby cities too, so…
I went to school up there and loved it. My people are in southern Ontario so I moved back but I visit t bay when I can. They have a lot of cool local places and the outdoors are amazing. Most of all the people there are wonderful.
Shhhhh
Maybe this will just attract more "investors" to the city and then they will start buying up properties.
Isnt it hella violent and racist?
That Canadaland podcast really sank their reputation huh? Never been anywhere near the place,so I can't say how warranted it is, but it's crazy how often that's people's first reaction when Thunder Bay is mentioned even years later. Can't deny that's some effective journalism.
Yeah, that series left me with the impression that the cost of living in Thunder Bay is witnessing a slow-motion genocide.
only if you are indigenous, it seems
If you deal with illegal drugs. Do you? If not you are fine.
https://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/thunder-bay-s-police-chief-resigns-amid-suspension-misconduct-charges-1.6235531 https://www.nan.ca/news/nan-statement-tbps/
Barbara Kentner was walking on the side of the road (not selling drugs) when Brayden Bushby killed her by tossing a trailer hitch out of a moving vehicle. That's Thunder Bay for you.
They sentenced him to 8 years in jail. That's how much her life was worth to the justice system
If Thunder Bay really wants to seriously attract new people, besides broke international students who barely speak English, they need to start BUILDING HOMES. You need to sell affordability, with familiar luxuries, as that is the main selling point of any upwardly mobile city going forward. TB has great nature, and a great teaching hospital. It’s not flat and seems to have many amenities. It’s also nowhere near as snowy as people think. It snows more than Toronto, but much less than Northeastern Ontario cities like Sudbury and North Bay. I’m rooting for the city. Many of the homes seem to have no garage and very few are new-ish. The ones that are new-ish seem insanely overpriced. IDK. So much space and so little new development, while trying to attract new residents is a turn off. The rent is also quite high, relative to what the city offers. Way higher than the $1200 quoted. So it seems like TB just wants a real estate bubble like most other cities in Ontario. No thanks. May as well stay in Southern Ontario at that rate.
There is a more to life than affordability.
People here shit on the gta but no one would ever move
No. It's fucking thunder bay.
There is a reason Thunder Bay is so cheap.
It has one of the harshest climate in the world, it's boring af but OK. let's move there ,,,
Spoken like someone that hasn't lived here nor visited One of the sunniest cities in all of Canada. Didn't have snow until January this year. Summers above average temperature in Canada.
I've lived here for most of my life, convenient you're mostly talking about the much shorter summer months. Last winter was an anomaly, winters here are usually brutal and last almost half the year. And if you're attracting people who mostly ride the bus and walk everywhere it sucks getting around in the winter and having to wait at a stop in below 30 degree weather for up to 40 minutes. Oh yeah which reminds me, the public transportation in this city is notoriously shit, I've had multiple buses just fail to show up entirely without any warning, this isn't a rare occurrence either. And if you don't have a car you will be around drug use and public alcohol consumption, guaranteed. Both bus terminals are in sketchy areas you wouldn't want to be stuck waiting at night, I'm speaking from experience. And no I don't deal or do drugs, I do see tons of used needles all over the place though.
Right? I lived in Thunder Bay for a couple years, and what I remember most is the biting cold months, forgetting to plug in my car's block heater and being late for work as a result, and the nights when frost would form on my apartment's walls because it was -35C with a windchill of -45C. OP is seriously pitching a place where the [daily mean temperature is 2.7C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_Bay#Climate) as "Summers above average temperature in Canada". Like, duh, most of Canada's landmass is frozen wilderness. Most people live in the warmer areas. The Windsor-Quebec City corridor, Vancouver, the Maritimes. All warmer, some of them significantly so. Just because TB has a warmer climate than the prairies doesn't make it nicer than most of the places in Canada people actually live.
Should have been able to hold on to their hockey team then.
Honestly, who wants to live in Thunder Bay?
It's only a decently nice place to live if you have your own vehicle, if you don't it fucking blows. You can't exactly take a bus out to the falls or the sleeping giant. The buses here are awful too, they are frequently late or don't even show up at all, so if you rely on them to get to work, school, appointments, etc, it really sucks, especially in the winter months (which are normally long and brutal here). I assume most of the people they will attract will be younger international workers who probably don't have their own vehicles, because families need to make sure they can line up decent jobs before just moving to a new city. Also home prices may be low but rent is definitely higher than the $1200 they mention in the article. I was looking not long ago and saw a small place that didn't even have a kitchen in the unit (or access to one in the building) going for around that much, and on top of that it was in a shitty area of town too. They are probably getting that stat by including people who already got their apartments years ago and are paying much lower rent, because their landlords can't legally jack up the prices to what you would be charged if you moved into that exact same apartment now vs several years ago.
Part of living in most every small town and rural area is owning a vehicle. Agreed, going carless is not easy. The quality of life is a lot better if you like the outdoors.
That place is ass. So is Winnipeg.
If only more jobs were remote. I'm chained to downtown Toronto in my role/field, so it won't be me.
Don't mind the crime, you can afford a house!
Wait for it OP. ‘But it’s not Toronto so no one can live there!’
you had my curiosity. now you have my attention.
Why the fuck is rent still so high up there though?
Edmonton has to be better. I’m not sure how fast housing is rising but Edmonton was cheaper than Thunder Bay not too long ago as well.
Have they got jobs?
I grew up in Thunder Bay and lived there for 21 years before moving to Southern Ontario and more recently Europe. The major issue is that there are limited opportunities in the private sector unless your willing to commute abroad to the oil sands or the mines to make a decent income. There are a lot of government jobs but beyond that its not exactly a booming or expanding area. Significant issues with mental health, addictions and homelessness alongside the intertwined racial issues between the indigenous population and white community in Thunder Bay. Lots of small town mentality as well when it comes to things like developing housing, walkable city planning and more. Northern Ontario is absolutely beautiful if your an outdoors person, you enjoy the wilderness and are willing to invest in things like a trailer or boat. Lots of hiking opportunities and sports activities like hiking, skiing and snowboarding in the winter. My biggest issue beyond the jobs was the isolation. Even more so now with Westjet only flying West and no direct international travel options. Its an 8 hour drive to Winnipeg and 8 hours to Sault Ste. Marie. If you drive south its 4 hours to Duluth across the border into the United States. That means unless its in Thunder Bay its either incredibly expensive to go and attend a cultural event, they don't come to Thunder Bay or you just don't get access to it. Northern Ontario as well is dying off with the numerous small towns failing. Thunder Bay is affordable for a reason because it has some significant drawbacks and the demand isnt there regardless of the population growth. It can be absolutely beautiful, and there are quite nice people there. People are actively trying to improve it but for me I'd never move back.
The murder/major crime capital of Canada...yes sounds attractive to buyers🤦♀️
Thunder Bay union electricians have it figured out 💰💪🏼