I think it's understood in the community that skin conditions usually take a few months to get better. I definitely don't think you have to be full lion. Make sure you enjoy what you eat!
yeah man this is what I thought but I've just been feeling like there's no way I can last for another few months just on beef and lamb. I just feel like I can't get enough fat in to start and then it just gets so unbelievably boring and repetitive. Would be nice to be able to enjoy a plate of chicken wings or some bacon in the morning with some eggs.
I know cheese is pretty controversial but oh my god how I've been craving halloumi too!!
My son is doing carnivore with us and had severe acne and we started to wonder if/when it was gonna help him, because it didn't feel like there was any progress and then about 2 months in his skin just stopped breaking out, I mean it was like a switch flipped. Again, he's on carnivore and it's working, didn't need to go lion. Go fry you some eggs.
100%. I'm sure every body detoxes off the offensive substance differently. Our son was the same right until he wasn't. I hope you can soon see the benefits of your efforts.
Yeah man this is what I've been thinking recently but there's a certain element of feeling like I've failed on this diet if I revert back to those things. Guess I'm just looking for reassurance that I'll still be in line with my goal of healing my skin if I'm not 100% strict lion
There is a significant amount of (quiet) people here who think Lion is too severe and only for those who need it for medical reasons. If it is not meeting you goals and you are struggling with it, it isn't a failure, it just isn't for you.
Or to put it another way... knowing what you know now, if someone gives up being a ketovore and goes to something else, it isn't a failure. That WOE didn't meet their goals, so they should move onto something else
My eczema got far worse for the first 3 months as I adapted. It was either keto rash or oxalate dumping, but I figure the latter as it calmed down when I introduced some dark chocolate every day to slow dumping. Try that as it may be what's happening.
It's normal for these things to get worse initially as your body is dumping toxins you've stored over years, and skin is a major detoxification organ.
Oh and btw I never did lion diet. All meats, eggs, chicken but very little dairy. And nothing fermented or aged meats (apart from some bacon), because histamines. You can and should reintroduce fermented foods later if you tolerate them.
Do you think I should keep going on the Lion diet or would introducing eggs / bacon / fatty chicken / fatty fish still be suitable man?
Just been having a real rough time with the diet recently in terms of cost, lack of variety and the preparation required
No one can really know without experimentation but I'd add eggs just to get more nutrients. They bring the cost down as well. Bone broth too, if you can for the collage6 and others.
I think with someone with your condition, Id throw the book at it man, meaning, lion diet, because its the MOST restrictive. Youre on meds, right? or you stopped? I had a close friend grow up with it, it doesn't look fun, and I would be willing to do anything to get rid of it naturally, which would be lion
i'm not a doctor and this is not medical advice, i am simply sharing anecdotal stories Ive read over the years.
i personally would go lion diet until improvement starts, THEN start reintroducing foods in SMALL amounts
rooting for you buddy
Is there anything specifically I'm aiming to get from bone broth and liver? I tried making a liver pate with some tallow and salt and it was so gross I couldn't stomach it lol
Bone broth I'm making when I get the chance though, I usually just use it to cook my meat in though rather than just drink it
A lot of autoimmune diseases are associated with vitamin and mineral deficiency. Liver is literally a multivitamin with therapeutic levels of everything we need. I personally buy pasture raised beef liver in the freezer at whole foods and cut it raw and frozen into little cubes and swallow whole. Bone broth heals and seals the gut with specific amino acids that aren’t as abundant in just muscle meat. You can consume it any way that works for you. Adding raw egg yolks (no whites) to your foods adds extra healing vitamins.
Oh and skin conditions do get “worse” before they get better because your body is releasing toxins. Your body has to release toxins from your cells slowly or you wouldn’t survive it. Trust the process 💪
You know what you need? Wagyu tallow. Holy cow it’s like candy when it’s refrigerated.
As for the skin issues, I have psoriasis too and I’ve been carnivore with no dairy because I’m allergic to milk, but I do drink coffee, and it’s taken 9 months for my skin to have significantly improved. It’s still not completely gone, but it’s a helluva lot better and I’ve lost 25 lbs to boot.
Anecdotally, I have seen psoriasis clear up with the application of transdermal progesterone.
Don't know how bad you have it, if progesterone is right for you (prescription most places), but thought it worth mentioning.
Mikhaila is allergic to literally everything. That’s why she had to gravitate toward her extreme elimination diet. The rest of us likely don’t need to be that strict. Bacon eggs and chicken are perfectly acceptable for most people. On the other hand, a month is likely not long enough to heal everything, but I still believe this healing is most likely possible on plain ole carnivore diet.
Nope I'm saying sometimes this stuff takes time. To clear 95% it would take 4 years or 6 years. Oxidative stress could be causing issues and changing your cell membranes to use less of them take time. They're probably linked to skin health.
Well they're all generally higher in LA so maybe a moderate amount. We still really don't know what works best, it could be a rate of detoxing from n-6 over saturation, or even other stuff like oxalates and so on.
Even when you take meds for illnesses it takes months to work. I've just started a new biological drug for my Crohn's and it says it takes at least 3 months to start to improve symptoms. However rather than just going full blown unrestricted carnivore, cant you just add condiments to your beef such as hard cheeses and maybe fermented dairy as desserts? Assuming dairy doesn't bother you but yet you are doing a lion diet so you probably don't know what causes you issues.
I was initially going to stay away from dairy to be honest, just because I don't know if it does cause any issues. I really just wanted to add in some chicken wings every now and again and some eggs and bacon for breakfast. The majority of my diet I'm planning to still keep to beef and lamb... Guess I just wanted to know if I'm being stupid by introducing those things again
Chicken and pork are high in mufa's which may cause you issues. I think the safest thing to add is low pollutant fish such as mackerel. It is cheap and mostly wild caught, low in mercury and not as high in PCB'S like farmed salmon and sardines.
Eggs are still pretty high in omega 6,pasture raised are a lot better but still not ideal. Then you have the issue of maybe having an egg intolerance. However most people tolerate eggs fine, much more than dairy in fact. I would start of with a small amount of fish for a couple of weeks, then add in 2 or 3 eggs a day on top of that. I would say fish is the least less to cause problems and high lactose dairy is the most likely just due to most people being lactose intolerant.
It seems like you have only tried the lion diet and not carnivore. If you are struggling with the diet then it may be worth just doing a unrestricted carnivore diet for a while to keep you motivated and to see if you still helps with your health condition, it will certainly be more effective that eating grain, sugar and allergens eyc. But if you can still persevere with the lion diet while slowly adding in items then that is great.
If you haven’t hit the point where you crave fatty cuts of meat or just fat in general you haven’t given this way of eating a fair shot to do it’s magic
Doing keto and doing carnivore didn’t change my psoriasis (I was still using spices on meats) I learned I cannot have any nightshades so that means no potato tomato peppers eggplant but shredded cheese has potato starch sometimes and paprika is ground red peppers and other spice mixes have peppers in them (bell and hot peppers I cannot have they flare my arthritis so does blue berries and Advil/ibupeohen but cutting out all nightshade and reading the labels of all spices/marinade helped me
My psoriasis been gone for almost five years now! Just strict carnivore, not lion.....although the majority is beef, most often ground beef. I eat any and all plain meats and eggs. I avoid any oils, spices, and processed meats. My psoriasis went away totally after a few months, and has stayed gone! Lots of other issues healed as well. Carnivore over 5 years now, carnivore for life!
Besides diet you will need to change your Soap. Get online and buy some handmade Tallow soap. Make sure it doesn't contain olive oils as that can irritate skin issues. There are lots of makers you just need to look for them Etsy is good start but it might take a bit to find the ones not using OO and those using AO or Animal oils like lard and tallow.
If you decide to stay with lion diet, here are some ideas:
Try flanken ribs. They are amazing and really a different flavor.
We also buy brisket, cut the cap fat off, dice it up, then fry it just until crispy, then use the oil left in the pan as our cooking oil for the day. The fried crispy fat tastes a bit like bacon, just needs some salt. We would chop up the meat and use it in stews or give it to our dogs.
Fatty chuck roast, cut into steaks, seared at very high heat just to brown the outside, then cooked sous vide at 132 for 24 hours tastes a lot like corned beef.
We save the fat cap from new york strip, rib eye, and t-bone steaks that we don't eat, and turn it into tallow. It's a much beefier flavor than store bought or the stuff rendered from brisket cap fat.
Hamburger soup is also a different take. So is beef jerky- try really fatty roasts- it doesn't last long enough to worry about longevity.
The different salts- Himalayan, Celtic, Redmonds, Mediterranean, all have different flavors. Treat them like your spices. Just be careful of additives like dextrose.
Also cook at a variety of levels of doneness. Sometimes I liked blue rare and sometimes I liked medium rare.
Beef heart is easily edible- the only beef organ my kids will eat. Oxtail soup is worth trying too.
We never got to make beef rinds, but it's an option on my bucket list. Anyway, good luck!
I have pretty bad plaque scalp psoriasis. I healed it in 6 months with just regular carnivore/ketovore. I never went so extreme as lions diet. I did have some veggies here and there (not everyday though), some keto dark chocolate (like Lilly’s), and used some sauces and seasonings. I even had some “carb days” in those six months (only a handful). I threw in some 72 fasts too to help. Ive noticed limiting dairy has helped too.
So, quite obvious at this point to say but I wasn’t all that strict lol. I still managed to heal mine. Not saying everyone will get the same results but just sharing what did it for me.
It takes time though. This is not going to be a 1 month process. If it’s too restrictive, my advice is to find something you can reasonably stick to and give it time. I wish I had that type of discipline but lions would just be too restrictive for me too long term.
Nowadays Im doing a more relaxed keto (although very meat heavy) and Im doing well on it. Not everyone has to be super strict, but doing carni (when I was strict) gave me great data. Like now I know I dont tolerate night shades well and avoid those. Good luck with it all.
It takes a very very long time to heal. I’m on Lion and the symptoms got worse. You really have to be on it for a longer period of time. It gets worse before it gets better
Okay so how long were you on high carb , junk food prior to carnivore .. yep YEARS. And it’ll take time to reverse it as well . Sucks people who give up on carnivore cause they don’t see results in a week, month whatever
We're all going to have different thoughts, but for me if adding bacon and eggs helps you stick to a decent real diet, do it!
Caution with chicken as you won't be getting much fat so maybe cook in tallow or just be sure to have high fat meat in the day at some point, or if you tolerate butter, a butter tea drink :)
I'd avoid cheese and other dairy for now (except butter or ghee, if you are okay with that), as many have issues with dairy and if you include it and don't improve, you'll never know if avoiding it would have helped.
And with eggs and bacon included, you can do loads! Like bacon and egg and butter muffins etc :)
i am in the same boat as you are, but for different symptoms, so i can’t really advise on what to do. Personally im staying with lion diet for now.
the way i make it more affordable is ive been buying lamb leg roasts ($9 AUD/kg), dicing the meat then roast 1 hour, slow cooking 1-2hrs, with the bones, marrow and fat. it’s delicious, freezes well and cheaper even than ground beef which can be high in histamines.
my other money saving carnivore hack is buying chuck steaks and forequarter lamb chops. usually less than $15 aud/kg and if you buy the fattiest ones, stear them and cook them right then they aren’t tough and much cheaper than other cuts of steak.
My psoriasis heal on the lion diet after 3 months. I had also very bad keto rush during that time. You also mention you have leaky gut, for that will take years to heal. I don't think dairy is a good choice if you have leaky gut.
I think it's understood in the community that skin conditions usually take a few months to get better. I definitely don't think you have to be full lion. Make sure you enjoy what you eat!
yeah man this is what I thought but I've just been feeling like there's no way I can last for another few months just on beef and lamb. I just feel like I can't get enough fat in to start and then it just gets so unbelievably boring and repetitive. Would be nice to be able to enjoy a plate of chicken wings or some bacon in the morning with some eggs. I know cheese is pretty controversial but oh my god how I've been craving halloumi too!!
Just eat the cheese man, that’s not the cause of your psoriasis.
As someone with psoriasis cutting out dairy reduced it by 50 percent. So it very well could be making it worse. Although everyone is different.
My son is doing carnivore with us and had severe acne and we started to wonder if/when it was gonna help him, because it didn't feel like there was any progress and then about 2 months in his skin just stopped breaking out, I mean it was like a switch flipped. Again, he's on carnivore and it's working, didn't need to go lion. Go fry you some eggs.
It has been almost 6 months for me and I am still breaking out badly, it is worth mentioning that the amount of time is different for everyone.
100%. I'm sure every body detoxes off the offensive substance differently. Our son was the same right until he wasn't. I hope you can soon see the benefits of your efforts.
The best WOE is the one you stick to. Fish/eggs/bacon are all carnivore and delicious!
Yeah man this is what I've been thinking recently but there's a certain element of feeling like I've failed on this diet if I revert back to those things. Guess I'm just looking for reassurance that I'll still be in line with my goal of healing my skin if I'm not 100% strict lion
There is a significant amount of (quiet) people here who think Lion is too severe and only for those who need it for medical reasons. If it is not meeting you goals and you are struggling with it, it isn't a failure, it just isn't for you. Or to put it another way... knowing what you know now, if someone gives up being a ketovore and goes to something else, it isn't a failure. That WOE didn't meet their goals, so they should move onto something else
My eczema got far worse for the first 3 months as I adapted. It was either keto rash or oxalate dumping, but I figure the latter as it calmed down when I introduced some dark chocolate every day to slow dumping. Try that as it may be what's happening. It's normal for these things to get worse initially as your body is dumping toxins you've stored over years, and skin is a major detoxification organ. Oh and btw I never did lion diet. All meats, eggs, chicken but very little dairy. And nothing fermented or aged meats (apart from some bacon), because histamines. You can and should reintroduce fermented foods later if you tolerate them.
A month is barely enough time.. keep going man. It's gonna clear up.
Do you think I should keep going on the Lion diet or would introducing eggs / bacon / fatty chicken / fatty fish still be suitable man? Just been having a real rough time with the diet recently in terms of cost, lack of variety and the preparation required
No one can really know without experimentation but I'd add eggs just to get more nutrients. They bring the cost down as well. Bone broth too, if you can for the collage6 and others.
I think with someone with your condition, Id throw the book at it man, meaning, lion diet, because its the MOST restrictive. Youre on meds, right? or you stopped? I had a close friend grow up with it, it doesn't look fun, and I would be willing to do anything to get rid of it naturally, which would be lion i'm not a doctor and this is not medical advice, i am simply sharing anecdotal stories Ive read over the years. i personally would go lion diet until improvement starts, THEN start reintroducing foods in SMALL amounts rooting for you buddy
You don’t have to be on lion to heal psoriasis you need bone broth and liver though
And time.
Absolutely 👍
Is there anything specifically I'm aiming to get from bone broth and liver? I tried making a liver pate with some tallow and salt and it was so gross I couldn't stomach it lol Bone broth I'm making when I get the chance though, I usually just use it to cook my meat in though rather than just drink it
A lot of autoimmune diseases are associated with vitamin and mineral deficiency. Liver is literally a multivitamin with therapeutic levels of everything we need. I personally buy pasture raised beef liver in the freezer at whole foods and cut it raw and frozen into little cubes and swallow whole. Bone broth heals and seals the gut with specific amino acids that aren’t as abundant in just muscle meat. You can consume it any way that works for you. Adding raw egg yolks (no whites) to your foods adds extra healing vitamins. Oh and skin conditions do get “worse” before they get better because your body is releasing toxins. Your body has to release toxins from your cells slowly or you wouldn’t survive it. Trust the process 💪
You know what you need? Wagyu tallow. Holy cow it’s like candy when it’s refrigerated. As for the skin issues, I have psoriasis too and I’ve been carnivore with no dairy because I’m allergic to milk, but I do drink coffee, and it’s taken 9 months for my skin to have significantly improved. It’s still not completely gone, but it’s a helluva lot better and I’ve lost 25 lbs to boot.
Interesting! How do you eat the tallow? Just spoon it?
Yup! It’s so damn good
Adding in fish can also really accelerate the healing process ☺️
Anecdotally, I have seen psoriasis clear up with the application of transdermal progesterone. Don't know how bad you have it, if progesterone is right for you (prescription most places), but thought it worth mentioning.
Mikhaila is allergic to literally everything. That’s why she had to gravitate toward her extreme elimination diet. The rest of us likely don’t need to be that strict. Bacon eggs and chicken are perfectly acceptable for most people. On the other hand, a month is likely not long enough to heal everything, but I still believe this healing is most likely possible on plain ole carnivore diet.
Did you know Linoleic acid has a half life of 680 days?
Do you think this is how long it will take for my skin to go back to normal?
Nope I'm saying sometimes this stuff takes time. To clear 95% it would take 4 years or 6 years. Oxidative stress could be causing issues and changing your cell membranes to use less of them take time. They're probably linked to skin health.
Yeah man, I hear you. Do you think I would hurt my chances of healing if I added back in chicken/pork/fish/eggs?
Well they're all generally higher in LA so maybe a moderate amount. We still really don't know what works best, it could be a rate of detoxing from n-6 over saturation, or even other stuff like oxalates and so on.
Even when you take meds for illnesses it takes months to work. I've just started a new biological drug for my Crohn's and it says it takes at least 3 months to start to improve symptoms. However rather than just going full blown unrestricted carnivore, cant you just add condiments to your beef such as hard cheeses and maybe fermented dairy as desserts? Assuming dairy doesn't bother you but yet you are doing a lion diet so you probably don't know what causes you issues.
I was initially going to stay away from dairy to be honest, just because I don't know if it does cause any issues. I really just wanted to add in some chicken wings every now and again and some eggs and bacon for breakfast. The majority of my diet I'm planning to still keep to beef and lamb... Guess I just wanted to know if I'm being stupid by introducing those things again
Chicken and pork are high in mufa's which may cause you issues. I think the safest thing to add is low pollutant fish such as mackerel. It is cheap and mostly wild caught, low in mercury and not as high in PCB'S like farmed salmon and sardines.
Ok nice, that sounds like a nice route instead. What about eggs? Do you have any thoughts on if they're okay to add in too?
Eggs are still pretty high in omega 6,pasture raised are a lot better but still not ideal. Then you have the issue of maybe having an egg intolerance. However most people tolerate eggs fine, much more than dairy in fact. I would start of with a small amount of fish for a couple of weeks, then add in 2 or 3 eggs a day on top of that. I would say fish is the least less to cause problems and high lactose dairy is the most likely just due to most people being lactose intolerant. It seems like you have only tried the lion diet and not carnivore. If you are struggling with the diet then it may be worth just doing a unrestricted carnivore diet for a while to keep you motivated and to see if you still helps with your health condition, it will certainly be more effective that eating grain, sugar and allergens eyc. But if you can still persevere with the lion diet while slowly adding in items then that is great.
My wife had seen great progress healing her psoriasis with carnivore.
Just stick with either carni or lion and don’t completely fall off yet. Give it another two months if you end up choosing to go completely off
If you haven’t hit the point where you crave fatty cuts of meat or just fat in general you haven’t given this way of eating a fair shot to do it’s magic
Doing keto and doing carnivore didn’t change my psoriasis (I was still using spices on meats) I learned I cannot have any nightshades so that means no potato tomato peppers eggplant but shredded cheese has potato starch sometimes and paprika is ground red peppers and other spice mixes have peppers in them (bell and hot peppers I cannot have they flare my arthritis so does blue berries and Advil/ibupeohen but cutting out all nightshade and reading the labels of all spices/marinade helped me
My psoriasis been gone for almost five years now! Just strict carnivore, not lion.....although the majority is beef, most often ground beef. I eat any and all plain meats and eggs. I avoid any oils, spices, and processed meats. My psoriasis went away totally after a few months, and has stayed gone! Lots of other issues healed as well. Carnivore over 5 years now, carnivore for life!
Besides diet you will need to change your Soap. Get online and buy some handmade Tallow soap. Make sure it doesn't contain olive oils as that can irritate skin issues. There are lots of makers you just need to look for them Etsy is good start but it might take a bit to find the ones not using OO and those using AO or Animal oils like lard and tallow.
If you decide to stay with lion diet, here are some ideas: Try flanken ribs. They are amazing and really a different flavor. We also buy brisket, cut the cap fat off, dice it up, then fry it just until crispy, then use the oil left in the pan as our cooking oil for the day. The fried crispy fat tastes a bit like bacon, just needs some salt. We would chop up the meat and use it in stews or give it to our dogs. Fatty chuck roast, cut into steaks, seared at very high heat just to brown the outside, then cooked sous vide at 132 for 24 hours tastes a lot like corned beef. We save the fat cap from new york strip, rib eye, and t-bone steaks that we don't eat, and turn it into tallow. It's a much beefier flavor than store bought or the stuff rendered from brisket cap fat. Hamburger soup is also a different take. So is beef jerky- try really fatty roasts- it doesn't last long enough to worry about longevity. The different salts- Himalayan, Celtic, Redmonds, Mediterranean, all have different flavors. Treat them like your spices. Just be careful of additives like dextrose. Also cook at a variety of levels of doneness. Sometimes I liked blue rare and sometimes I liked medium rare. Beef heart is easily edible- the only beef organ my kids will eat. Oxtail soup is worth trying too. We never got to make beef rinds, but it's an option on my bucket list. Anyway, good luck!
I have pretty bad plaque scalp psoriasis. I healed it in 6 months with just regular carnivore/ketovore. I never went so extreme as lions diet. I did have some veggies here and there (not everyday though), some keto dark chocolate (like Lilly’s), and used some sauces and seasonings. I even had some “carb days” in those six months (only a handful). I threw in some 72 fasts too to help. Ive noticed limiting dairy has helped too. So, quite obvious at this point to say but I wasn’t all that strict lol. I still managed to heal mine. Not saying everyone will get the same results but just sharing what did it for me. It takes time though. This is not going to be a 1 month process. If it’s too restrictive, my advice is to find something you can reasonably stick to and give it time. I wish I had that type of discipline but lions would just be too restrictive for me too long term. Nowadays Im doing a more relaxed keto (although very meat heavy) and Im doing well on it. Not everyone has to be super strict, but doing carni (when I was strict) gave me great data. Like now I know I dont tolerate night shades well and avoid those. Good luck with it all.
Cheese can cause the skin issues indeed
Wife’s eczema completely healed. Slow healing process, probably took over a year. Healed at a pace that was completely unnoticeable.
Why did you think you couldn't heal eating other meat?
It takes a very very long time to heal. I’m on Lion and the symptoms got worse. You really have to be on it for a longer period of time. It gets worse before it gets better
Yes skin is definatly slow and probably last to come right
Okay so how long were you on high carb , junk food prior to carnivore .. yep YEARS. And it’ll take time to reverse it as well . Sucks people who give up on carnivore cause they don’t see results in a week, month whatever
We're all going to have different thoughts, but for me if adding bacon and eggs helps you stick to a decent real diet, do it! Caution with chicken as you won't be getting much fat so maybe cook in tallow or just be sure to have high fat meat in the day at some point, or if you tolerate butter, a butter tea drink :) I'd avoid cheese and other dairy for now (except butter or ghee, if you are okay with that), as many have issues with dairy and if you include it and don't improve, you'll never know if avoiding it would have helped. And with eggs and bacon included, you can do loads! Like bacon and egg and butter muffins etc :)
i am in the same boat as you are, but for different symptoms, so i can’t really advise on what to do. Personally im staying with lion diet for now. the way i make it more affordable is ive been buying lamb leg roasts ($9 AUD/kg), dicing the meat then roast 1 hour, slow cooking 1-2hrs, with the bones, marrow and fat. it’s delicious, freezes well and cheaper even than ground beef which can be high in histamines. my other money saving carnivore hack is buying chuck steaks and forequarter lamb chops. usually less than $15 aud/kg and if you buy the fattiest ones, stear them and cook them right then they aren’t tough and much cheaper than other cuts of steak.
My psoriasis heal on the lion diet after 3 months. I had also very bad keto rush during that time. You also mention you have leaky gut, for that will take years to heal. I don't think dairy is a good choice if you have leaky gut.