Funnily enough the viper was killed not because of the engine/emissions, but rather because it would be too costly to comply with regulations requiring side-curtain air bags.
I'm sure if airbags weren't an issue then the engine would eventually be though.
Yeah there's no way that monstrosity passes modern emissions standards, lol. Interesting factoid about the airbags though, that's... pretty representative of today's auto market I think. Safety is important but it sure isn't fun.
The exhaust valves are closed under 3000 rpm so maybe that's why? I guess it's fine since people don't really want to wake up their whole postcode in the morning.
I know what you're saying. A neighbor of mine had a BMW M5 competition with optional/aftermarket exhaust system. WOW, you knew it was 6.30am when he was headed downtown (Hotel Executive) for work. It woke up everyone in a 500 ft. Radius. Holy! He retired and traded it in for a more civilized BMW X3.
I think it’s part of the V10 engine’s charm, they way it sounds is kinda ”hollow” and metallic compared to a V12 which is more like a perfect harmony of various frequencies. I’m sure there’s a musical/audio techical explanation for it.
this is my vote lol. designed by AMC in the what 1960s and very little changes over the decades. Stupid stout engine that will just keep going. ford 300 I6 was also another one of those half million mile engines.
My buddies threw a turbo on one, that thing would smoke everything when we would drag at the dunes. Was nasty till it all went kaboom. It was not modified internally for a turbo. Sounded like a Cummins 4bt lol
I had a 94’ Grand Cherokee with ~280k(?) and the holy 4.0. Perfect condition old school leather seats. You don’t get the full lazy-boy experience in anything past 2000. Man were those seats comfy. Literally everything in/on the car worked. 4x4 worked exactly like it was supposed to. Stock stereo and even the cassette den worked
It definitely drank oil but the motor didn’t give a shit. You could probably dump olive oil in the mfer and it’d still run
Bought it for around $2,500 at a shady used car dealership. Really wish I still had it
We would jump that thing like 10ft in the air and flat land it, rear shocks were busted off long ago but it didn't matter. You could throw anything at ol leeroy and it would just keep going. Get back from the trails and power wash the whole inside.... people thought were were nuts when they would sit and notice what we would be doing lol. Don't see no one in newr jeeps airing anything out on the trails!
Ya i know what you mean, sucks we have to let stuff go
Hahaha I knew many people who did the same thing. They were cheap as shit, and nearly indestructible.
Coincidentally, now they’re all in pieces in junkyards, and are probably going to be worth big money before too long
Ya it is definitely one of the vehicles that I would want to have even though I've never been a jeep person. Its sad to see no more s10s and other vehicles from those eras anymore. I just want a nice square body Buick! Cash for clunkers was the worst thing ever.
One of my daughters took over our '94 ZJ Laredo... 4.0 4wd with FACTORY AX15 5spd.
No leather but everything works. Factory radio died several years ago though.
260k currently. No rust. Uses a quart between 5k changes.
My 99 Cherokee only has like 71k miles and almost everything works. It has some minor wiring issues but is otherwise completely stock besides crash damage.
I'm replacing the stock 5.2l v8 in my 1994 Grand this summer with a decently low mileage 4.0 that just purrs.
I've had so many Jeeps with this engine that I can't find any fault in it at all, besides being a tad thirsty. It's extremely dependable to the point of ridiculousness.
I wish some company had bought the stamping and molds, etc, for it and brought it into the new century with modern upgrades. I could only imagine the stock with a mild cam/piston upgrade and a mild turbo in it, coupled with that new transmission Jeep uses...man that would be amazing.
I own 3 jeeps with the 4.0, 2 of them over 300k and run perfect, the low mileage one at 260k also has no issues, they even all pass smog tests no problem. Don't consume oil, take a pounding in the desert and perform great during daily driving duties.
Was gonna be my choice since it has to be within the last 25 years.
Older but other contenders would be the 225 slant 6s, 300ci, and the Chevrolet 292.
Honorable mention would be the 318LA.
>Ford, 7.3 turbo diesel
Ford diesels have never been the same after this. Some were better than others (6.7 over 6.4 and 6.0) but nothing rivals the 7.3
The 7.3 isn’t without issues and it’s quite literally incapable of many of the tasks I complete with my 6.7. You’re still potentially facing injector overhaul at 200k. I have statistically zero concerns about my 6.7 getting to 400k and beyond.
It was very good in its day and there have been extremely problematic diesels since but the legend is outrunning reality bad on this engine. Definitely a case of never drive your heroes.
Emissions, DEF, EGR coolers are all problems yes. But CP4 is also renowned for being unreliable. I worked as an engine machinist at Dave's Auto and it was a very common thing to fail, many trucks that came through with blown up cp4's. They even make cp4 to cp3 conversions for all 3 diesels now as well as DCR pump conversions for 6.7's.
I along with every other ford guy masochistic to discuss this on the internet has heard this countless times, yet there’s so much widespread fleet use of this pickup and so many going 200k easily and 400 commonly. What’s up with that?
I mean there are always people who deny common failure points on vehicles, and there are those who work on them and fix those common failure points. I'm not saying every cp4 will fail before 400k, but there is a *good chance* that it will. Fleet vehicles are also used differently and maintained religiously, which is different than how most personal vehicles are used and maintained. Even so, on cp4 Fords in fleets, there is around a 10% failure rate that is not attributed to driver error which is grossly high.
The thing about common failure points is that when they are common enough, industries develop solutions for them. Ford 6.0 "bulletproof" kits. Not every 6.0 stretches the headbolts and blows the headgaskets, but many do. That's why bulletproof kits exist. That is also why cp3 and dcr conversions exist for cp4 diesels, because it's a common problem. I have a LB7 with 220k miles on it on original injectors and the stock crank gear pin, just because I haven't had to change injectors at 100k nor had the crank gear spin, does that mean I can deny that those are common problems? Denying this is just ignorance, especially when making statements like "I have statistically zero concerns about my 6.7..."
Apparently the cp4 has a failure rate of 5-7%. That's considered high but it is only 5-7% out of millions of engines. Considering you're a mechanic it's highly likely you come across more failed engines than a typical person because people bring you broken vehicles to fix. Mechanics will sit around and rag on every single vehicle yet ignore the millions out there that are untouched all while making money off the stupidity of 16 year Olds and
ladies who trash or don't maintain their vehicles.
Yeah I have a lot of respect for Dave. I was there 6 years ago when things were a lot slower. It was just me, Joey, and Zack doing machine work. This was before they converted the second lobby into the engine build room. Crank grinding was my specialty and I taught Joey how to grind before I left. Only reason I left was cause I had a full-time job as a CNC machinist at an aerospace company on a 3-12 shift and I was at Dave's part time, couldn't keep up with both jobs.
If we were gonna go back just a litttle bit further i would have also said the 460. we have had both and honestly i kinda like the gasser a little more. However it is super fun hearing school bus noises from a pickup truck, it may not haul fast, but itll haul whatever you strap to it.
The ford 7.3 was the last ford engine entirely designed and built by international trucks. The 6.0 was the last Navistar engine but was mostly designed by ford accountants at that point….
The 6.4 was the last. It was an exceptionally powerful and moddable engine being compound turbocharged from the factory but riddled with issues both carried forward from the 6.0 and unique to the 6.4.
>designed by ford accountants
Accountants designed an egr system and oil cooler for a new diesel engine? Do yal actually think before speaking sometimes. This is even more unrealistic if you know the difference between accounting and finance
EJs are great as long as you exclude the 2.5L that came in most cars in the US. EJs have a completely different reputation in places that got the 2.0L.
Iconic engine. I spent a decade as an EJ guy but the 4G was my first love.
The amount of time I spent dreaming of owning a first gen DSM with a 16G and a tune… simpler times.
Sorry. Meant to write OG issues like...
I mean the tensioner is pretty much a thing on all the cars of this era. Even the newer cars needed this stuff. It's a basic maintenance item. I've been fortunate enough to own multiple BMWs over the years and head gasket, water pump, tensioners/belts, "lifetime" trans fluid and suspension bushings are just basic maintenance at this point. 😂. The joys of BMW ownership.
In terms of more "mainstream" engines, I'd have to throw these in the mix:
-Toyota's blacktop 20V 4AG
-Nissan's SR20DE and DET (a DE with ITBs sounds great!)
-Mazda 20B-REW
>Toyota's blacktop 20V 4AG
Honestly, i'd take an aggressive cam, high compression ITB version of this engine in the 86/BRZ over the flat4 in it right now
Factory ITBs on the blacktop, so you're covered there. But I completely agree - I looked at a BRZ to replace my RX-8 at one point, but couldn't get into the engine, since it just does not feel like it wants to rev out. The rumors of putting a detuned G16 into the 86 in the future would have me interested, since I like everything else about the car other than the engine.
There are a few Honda K-series kits for the twins, but I had a very hard time finding any serious reviews from people that have done it. Since I don't see any track reviews or even any track guys running that swap, I'd guess it probably doesn't make a big enough difference to matter.
The rev happy FA24 in my BRZ, with the linear powerband and high redline, doesn't behave much different from the 3S-GE in my last car.
Center of gravity would be higher but what's nice is that it could lose almkst 100 lbs. The BRZ engine weights almost 400lbs, while inline 4s come in at low 300s
The G16 three cylinder I mentioned is short enough to sit behind the shock towers, so it's actually a better engine for handling balance in the twins, as it makes the car front-midship. It's also lighter than the FA24. So, while it is taller, the benefits outweigh that issue in the current chassis. You can see how it sits in the engine bay in their [GR86 CNF Super Taikyuu car](https://asset.watch.impress.co.jp/img/car/docs/1414/296/002_l.jpg).
Came here to say this. Aside from that glorious aria, I also enjoyed its delightful slingshot-like power curve, but maybe that was just the driveline giubos winding up and rebounding in my dad's old Milano Verde.
This engine applies most purely to this question. Power wise, there's no reason an even slightly evolved 13b-rew couldn't be at least adequate to today's standards. Although people might quickly tire of the fuel economy and extra oil. 😁
The whole post seems weird. Between the compression miss, listing cast iron block and 5 valves per cylinder like those are universal positives, and asking about reviving engines from the last 25 years but mentioning a bespoke supercar engine that you're unlikely to ever hear in person not to mention own. I would've expected everyone to bring up engines like the AMC 4L I6 or the Honda K series...
Push it back a few more years; Ford 300 I6. It was used in trucks and vans. They were just good workhorse engines.
Go back further and I would go for the Buick 455. Extreme torque.
Go back even further? Ford 255 Flat V8. Simple and elegant. Lots of things done to them for over 80 years, image OEM with billions of resources.
Somewhat similarly I would bring back the 3S-GTE. Not the last one though (integrated turbocharger, no thank you), the revision 3. And ideally also the BEAMS version separately.
Tbh, this is mostly just to ensure I'll find a new one if it ever pops lol, but the BEAMS would also make a good GR86 engine.
was going to post this. 3UZ in my LS430 is rock solid too, although the 1UZ is supposedly slightly more reliable due to thicker piston rods. at 145k it still runs like it's brand new. it's not too inefficient either (at least in the LS), i can get 26-27mpg on the highway. the LX and Land Cruiser are a different story though.
All phenomenal engines that will likely outlive us all. The mileage in my 100 series is pretty poor but it is also 26 years old, 5000+ lbs, 4spd auto, and has the aerodynamics of Ceaușescu's palace. A worthwhile trade-off for the 2.5 decades of flawless service. Much of the 365k miles have also been spent towing and in general, abusing the poor thing.
4g63t so they can re-release the Evo9. I don’t care about rich men’s toys. Bring back the fun car of the people. As close to how it was as possible. I’ve had much more powerful and “better” and faster cars but I’d take a reissued 9 over even my current boosted Atom for our smiles per mile.
I think that is within 25 years but my old ass may be misremembering.
Not dead yet but it’s got a short life ahead of it, but I took the meaning in the OP as choosing an engine that would be able to be made perpetually no matter what happens with emissions.
Why is this so far down? The F20/F22 is what *made* the S2000. People clamoring for a new one just don't understand that it is not possible to even come close to that greatness anymore. Not in a production car, at least.
Evasive made the S2000 Type R featuring updated body work, and the CTR's K20C1. which hauls ass and looks amazing, but I just don't think that captures the same spirit as the S2000. I would love for a new S2000 to come out, but with today's new enviorment of engines, I just don't know how Honda would capture that same charm. Turbocharged engines are fun but high revving NA engines are so unique, and it seems they're all gone expect for the GMA T.50
I love seeing videos of people taking pushrod V8s and making them sing. Several LS engines that can top 10000 RPMs is just fun for me. It's funny when people say pushrods can't Rev. I saw a 75yo man at the drag races with his 283 SBC powered Essex, and he was banging gears on it at 9000 RPMs with no roll cage running 10s. What a bad ass.
Surprised no one here said the JZ or RB yet.
Although I think an emissions cleared ZZ632 or Hellephant would be fun to see. Street legal Cobra Jets? Anybody?
There was a time not long ago that Mazda and Fiat/Alfa Romeo seemed to be cozy. I had dreams of them finding a way to plop a rotary turbo of some kind into a 4c based CF chassis.
M3s S65 but without corporate bean counters downgrading internals to lower cost of production
That engine was designed to be a lot beefier, somehow make the 4.4 standard and try to further re-engineer it to improve low end torque, and you’ve got a monster
Not a truck fan, but,
The Detroit Diesel. 2 stroke diesel, many shapes and sizes...marine to over the road. To make it compliant would truly be magic...
I'm running the 3.6 but didn't think it could handle twin turbos. How much would I have to upgrade the internals for that to be feasible...hypothetically speaking...
Honda B18C5. BMW S38. Any of the old Cadillac supercharged inline-8 cylinder engines, or with a V16. And the engine from 'The Beast of Turin, a 28.4L inline six. Yes, that is 1730 cubic inches!
All of these answers are wrong. If you somehow made the rotary zero emissions you would be changing the world forever because you solved material science
Nothing crazy, I just want either a twin turbo or supercharger kit to be CARB certified so that I could daily a boosted 2018 R8 V10 Plus in California without worrying about getting in trouble.
I can't afford any of that stuff, but if I could I would.
The title would imply a small compact design with good power to weight potential....
I would choose an LS-x and install those magical water molecule splitting glow plugs that are plug and play with the standard spark plugs.
Fill the tank with water and let those magical plugs split the water molecule on contact.
Love seeing the f50 get some love, absolute peak Ferrari in my opinion.
That said from a more budget stand point, give me the 4g63t. Absolutely incredible engine
I believe the 2trfe 2.7 in my 2011 Toyota Tacoma would be a good candidate. Although it is pretty under powered, it’s never had any issues. I’m just about to cross over 220k.
The ferrari ripping canvas sound is from the firing order and exhaust system design. You can make a mercedes V12 sound like a Ferrari the way Pagani did:
https://youtu.be/ahtenv_Y56A?si=9aWGd5g1K4SgnnXF
https://youtube.com/shorts/s-HDo9FTkOc?si=H7R2mlb4DsDs8ybq
The LFA V10 would be dope if Toyota put it more affordable cars. Otherwise the 2JZ-GTE would be cool. I would love to have had that engine in other cars stock aside from the Aristo V300 and Supra.
The Mercedes M275 Twin Turbo V12 handmade by AMG craftsmen. It's still emissions compliant but the Mercedes CEO wants the "progressive propulsion" of electrification even when it literally adds 1000 lbs and the complexity of a supercomputer to manage it. While improved to coil on cylinder design for the M279, a similar resiliency could be achieved with updated aftermarket coil packs and NGK's Ruthenium HX spark plugs.
Worth the effort for the power potential at *lighter weight* than V8 Hybridization for a greater 798hp that can be achieved by new [M275 turbo upgrades](https://www.60-130.com/showthread.php?46811-SpeeDriven-SL65-AMG-M275-V12-turbocharger-upgrade-dyno-results-798-wheel-horsepower), coil packs, NGK plugs, Green Filter Co. air filters and a RENNtech tune.
Since you didn't specify that the engine had to be produced in a car that sold during that time: May I introduce you to the Hellephant 426 Crate Engines: https://www.dcperformance.com/crate-engine
OM 606, or the 1.9TDI.
Those bastards are bulletproof.
Just imagine they could go all out on reliability and just send it with a giant truck turbo bolted on the side.
Enough torque to slow down the earth with each launch
Audi's 5.0 biturbo V10 really really deserved to go in a better chassis than the C6. I'd bring it back and give it the time to shine in some dumb, insane hypercar. Might be difficult though, as bugatti won't hear about anything with less than 16 cylinders.
27 years now (if we go by last date of production) but holy hell the Subaru EG33 is a special engine, I'd love to have them throw that in a modern car (maybe with a stick?)
8.4 V10 from the Viper
Funnily enough the viper was killed not because of the engine/emissions, but rather because it would be too costly to comply with regulations requiring side-curtain air bags. I'm sure if airbags weren't an issue then the engine would eventually be though.
Yeah there's no way that monstrosity passes modern emissions standards, lol. Interesting factoid about the airbags though, that's... pretty representative of today's auto market I think. Safety is important but it sure isn't fun.
Emissions is more about controlling blow-by, fuel-air ratio, and a lil bit of ECU management.
Or a lot if you're VW
Gen 2 didn’t even have an EGR. Pretty simple motor, even from an emissions perspective.
I have never before heard the LFA V10 described as hollow-sounding. Care to elaborate?
Yea I was curious as well. I think cars like the 458 have a hollow sound at lower rpm’s. I’ve heard LFA’s in person, they don’t sound hollow to me….
The exhaust valves are closed under 3000 rpm so maybe that's why? I guess it's fine since people don't really want to wake up their whole postcode in the morning.
Have you met people?
I know what you're saying. A neighbor of mine had a BMW M5 competition with optional/aftermarket exhaust system. WOW, you knew it was 6.30am when he was headed downtown (Hotel Executive) for work. It woke up everyone in a 500 ft. Radius. Holy! He retired and traded it in for a more civilized BMW X3.
I think this is OP’s attempt to sound edgy and contrarian.
Agreed. Also, the LFA engine is the only old engine I'd like to see brought back.
The S85 is a marvelous V10 as well.
I think it’s part of the V10 engine’s charm, they way it sounds is kinda ”hollow” and metallic compared to a V12 which is more like a perfect harmony of various frequencies. I’m sure there’s a musical/audio techical explanation for it.
The Jeep 4.0 6cyl, last used in the TJ generation Wrangler. Nigh invulnerable, not uncommon to run for 300k miles, before tear down.
this is my vote lol. designed by AMC in the what 1960s and very little changes over the decades. Stupid stout engine that will just keep going. ford 300 I6 was also another one of those half million mile engines.
My buddies threw a turbo on one, that thing would smoke everything when we would drag at the dunes. Was nasty till it all went kaboom. It was not modified internally for a turbo. Sounded like a Cummins 4bt lol
I had a 94’ Grand Cherokee with ~280k(?) and the holy 4.0. Perfect condition old school leather seats. You don’t get the full lazy-boy experience in anything past 2000. Man were those seats comfy. Literally everything in/on the car worked. 4x4 worked exactly like it was supposed to. Stock stereo and even the cassette den worked It definitely drank oil but the motor didn’t give a shit. You could probably dump olive oil in the mfer and it’d still run Bought it for around $2,500 at a shady used car dealership. Really wish I still had it
We would jump that thing like 10ft in the air and flat land it, rear shocks were busted off long ago but it didn't matter. You could throw anything at ol leeroy and it would just keep going. Get back from the trails and power wash the whole inside.... people thought were were nuts when they would sit and notice what we would be doing lol. Don't see no one in newr jeeps airing anything out on the trails! Ya i know what you mean, sucks we have to let stuff go
Hahaha I knew many people who did the same thing. They were cheap as shit, and nearly indestructible. Coincidentally, now they’re all in pieces in junkyards, and are probably going to be worth big money before too long
Ya it is definitely one of the vehicles that I would want to have even though I've never been a jeep person. Its sad to see no more s10s and other vehicles from those eras anymore. I just want a nice square body Buick! Cash for clunkers was the worst thing ever.
Yet another example of our government’s incompetence I wonder how many of those “new” vehicles people bought with CFC are still on the road
One of my daughters took over our '94 ZJ Laredo... 4.0 4wd with FACTORY AX15 5spd. No leather but everything works. Factory radio died several years ago though. 260k currently. No rust. Uses a quart between 5k changes.
My 99 Cherokee only has like 71k miles and almost everything works. It has some minor wiring issues but is otherwise completely stock besides crash damage.
I'm replacing the stock 5.2l v8 in my 1994 Grand this summer with a decently low mileage 4.0 that just purrs. I've had so many Jeeps with this engine that I can't find any fault in it at all, besides being a tad thirsty. It's extremely dependable to the point of ridiculousness. I wish some company had bought the stamping and molds, etc, for it and brought it into the new century with modern upgrades. I could only imagine the stock with a mild cam/piston upgrade and a mild turbo in it, coupled with that new transmission Jeep uses...man that would be amazing.
Ever looked into doing a AMC 258 crank swap to make a 4.6L stroker before installing it?
I own 3 jeeps with the 4.0, 2 of them over 300k and run perfect, the low mileage one at 260k also has no issues, they even all pass smog tests no problem. Don't consume oil, take a pounding in the desert and perform great during daily driving duties.
I commented before seeing your comment and I've just gotta say this is it. Bulletproof engine that puts modern Jeep to shame.
Was gonna be my choice since it has to be within the last 25 years. Older but other contenders would be the 225 slant 6s, 300ci, and the Chevrolet 292. Honorable mention would be the 318LA.
Yep . Aluminum head , 4.2 crank , 10.5:1 compression and a little more camshaft would it perfect .
GM, bring back the 8.1 big block. Ford, 7.3 turbo diesel.
>Ford, 7.3 turbo diesel Ford diesels have never been the same after this. Some were better than others (6.7 over 6.4 and 6.0) but nothing rivals the 7.3
The 7.3 isn’t without issues and it’s quite literally incapable of many of the tasks I complete with my 6.7. You’re still potentially facing injector overhaul at 200k. I have statistically zero concerns about my 6.7 getting to 400k and beyond. It was very good in its day and there have been extremely problematic diesels since but the legend is outrunning reality bad on this engine. Definitely a case of never drive your heroes.
I feel like your cp4 isn't gonna make it to 400k..
Lots of people say lots of things but they are. Cp4 isn’t the problem. Emissions is.
Emissions, DEF, EGR coolers are all problems yes. But CP4 is also renowned for being unreliable. I worked as an engine machinist at Dave's Auto and it was a very common thing to fail, many trucks that came through with blown up cp4's. They even make cp4 to cp3 conversions for all 3 diesels now as well as DCR pump conversions for 6.7's.
I along with every other ford guy masochistic to discuss this on the internet has heard this countless times, yet there’s so much widespread fleet use of this pickup and so many going 200k easily and 400 commonly. What’s up with that?
I mean there are always people who deny common failure points on vehicles, and there are those who work on them and fix those common failure points. I'm not saying every cp4 will fail before 400k, but there is a *good chance* that it will. Fleet vehicles are also used differently and maintained religiously, which is different than how most personal vehicles are used and maintained. Even so, on cp4 Fords in fleets, there is around a 10% failure rate that is not attributed to driver error which is grossly high. The thing about common failure points is that when they are common enough, industries develop solutions for them. Ford 6.0 "bulletproof" kits. Not every 6.0 stretches the headbolts and blows the headgaskets, but many do. That's why bulletproof kits exist. That is also why cp3 and dcr conversions exist for cp4 diesels, because it's a common problem. I have a LB7 with 220k miles on it on original injectors and the stock crank gear pin, just because I haven't had to change injectors at 100k nor had the crank gear spin, does that mean I can deny that those are common problems? Denying this is just ignorance, especially when making statements like "I have statistically zero concerns about my 6.7..."
Apparently the cp4 has a failure rate of 5-7%. That's considered high but it is only 5-7% out of millions of engines. Considering you're a mechanic it's highly likely you come across more failed engines than a typical person because people bring you broken vehicles to fix. Mechanics will sit around and rag on every single vehicle yet ignore the millions out there that are untouched all while making money off the stupidity of 16 year Olds and ladies who trash or don't maintain their vehicles.
No way you worked for Dave? He seems awesome
Yeah I have a lot of respect for Dave. I was there 6 years ago when things were a lot slower. It was just me, Joey, and Zack doing machine work. This was before they converted the second lobby into the engine build room. Crank grinding was my specialty and I taught Joey how to grind before I left. Only reason I left was cause I had a full-time job as a CNC machinist at an aerospace company on a 3-12 shift and I was at Dave's part time, couldn't keep up with both jobs.
> the legend is outrunning reality bad on this engine. Probably because the 7.3 is still spooling up to leave the stoplight.
If we were gonna go back just a litttle bit further i would have also said the 460. we have had both and honestly i kinda like the gasser a little more. However it is super fun hearing school bus noises from a pickup truck, it may not haul fast, but itll haul whatever you strap to it.
If you can settle for 445 the newish Godzilla engine is by all accounts outstanding.
Sure, it only gets 8 mpg, but does that whether it’s empty or loaded to the gills.
The ford 7.3 was the last ford engine entirely designed and built by international trucks. The 6.0 was the last Navistar engine but was mostly designed by ford accountants at that point….
The 6.4 was the last. It was an exceptionally powerful and moddable engine being compound turbocharged from the factory but riddled with issues both carried forward from the 6.0 and unique to the 6.4.
>designed by ford accountants Accountants designed an egr system and oil cooler for a new diesel engine? Do yal actually think before speaking sometimes. This is even more unrealistic if you know the difference between accounting and finance
4G63 would make Mitubishi relevant again
IMO probably the best 4 cylinder engine platform (siruis) ever made. It's why they were in production from the 80's until 2013.
Maybe not the best way to measure considering the EJ from subaru went from 1988-2021
EJs are great as long as you exclude the 2.5L that came in most cars in the US. EJs have a completely different reputation in places that got the 2.0L.
Iconic engine. I spent a decade as an EJ guy but the 4G was my first love. The amount of time I spent dreaming of owning a first gen DSM with a 16G and a tune… simpler times.
I've owned two '97 GSX Eclipse, that engine has so much character
S62 V8 from the e39 M5
Perfection. Also features factory ITBs. Incredible engine.
Uh, VANOS?
Was that reliable?
Besides OG issues off BMW head gasket oil leaks, I think it was pretty reliable for it's time I think.
VANOS rebuild every 50k?
Do it once with the kit and it’s fine.
Are there more reliably aftermarket head gaskets now?
Timing chain guides and tensioner is pretty much a guaranteed failure.
Sorry. Meant to write OG issues like... I mean the tensioner is pretty much a thing on all the cars of this era. Even the newer cars needed this stuff. It's a basic maintenance item. I've been fortunate enough to own multiple BMWs over the years and head gasket, water pump, tensioners/belts, "lifetime" trans fluid and suspension bushings are just basic maintenance at this point. 😂. The joys of BMW ownership.
I think so considering there are many 200k+ e39 m5s for sale. Imo it's the w113 equivalent of BMW.
Can’t you get 200k on any engine if you take care of it and replace parts as needed?
In terms of more "mainstream" engines, I'd have to throw these in the mix: -Toyota's blacktop 20V 4AG -Nissan's SR20DE and DET (a DE with ITBs sounds great!) -Mazda 20B-REW
>Toyota's blacktop 20V 4AG Honestly, i'd take an aggressive cam, high compression ITB version of this engine in the 86/BRZ over the flat4 in it right now
Factory ITBs on the blacktop, so you're covered there. But I completely agree - I looked at a BRZ to replace my RX-8 at one point, but couldn't get into the engine, since it just does not feel like it wants to rev out. The rumors of putting a detuned G16 into the 86 in the future would have me interested, since I like everything else about the car other than the engine.
Yeah but I wonder how much the handling of that platform would change going from the low-slung Subaru engine to a traditional inline 4.
There are a few Honda K-series kits for the twins, but I had a very hard time finding any serious reviews from people that have done it. Since I don't see any track reviews or even any track guys running that swap, I'd guess it probably doesn't make a big enough difference to matter. The rev happy FA24 in my BRZ, with the linear powerband and high redline, doesn't behave much different from the 3S-GE in my last car.
The engine is super low in the BRZ so there might be a risk of oil pan damage.
Center of gravity would be higher but what's nice is that it could lose almkst 100 lbs. The BRZ engine weights almost 400lbs, while inline 4s come in at low 300s
The G16 three cylinder I mentioned is short enough to sit behind the shock towers, so it's actually a better engine for handling balance in the twins, as it makes the car front-midship. It's also lighter than the FA24. So, while it is taller, the benefits outweigh that issue in the current chassis. You can see how it sits in the engine bay in their [GR86 CNF Super Taikyuu car](https://asset.watch.impress.co.jp/img/car/docs/1414/296/002_l.jpg).
Probably not in the slightest, just because those boxers are noticeably heavier than typical inline 4
All rotaries should be on this list, was surprised to see how far down your comment was. An rx8 with the FD motor or the REW would be a monster
1UZFE. Simple as an anvil and so reliable the FAA certified it as an aircraft powerplant.
1uz is the GOAT!
Yup, UZ engine series family. Nuff said. One of the most reliable engines on this planet.
Alfa Busso V6. Best sounding V6 engine ever developed. The later models produced good power output as well.
Came here to say this. Aside from that glorious aria, I also enjoyed its delightful slingshot-like power curve, but maybe that was just the driveline giubos winding up and rebounding in my dad's old Milano Verde.
Rotary
Honestly. EPA regulations killed the 13B
This engine applies most purely to this question. Power wise, there's no reason an even slightly evolved 13b-rew couldn't be at least adequate to today's standards. Although people might quickly tire of the fuel economy and extra oil. 😁
11 to 3 compression? Interestingly way of saying 3.7:1
Yeah, I'm perplexed by this as well.
So the real spec is 11.3:1, sounds to me like this post was made by an AI or by someone trying to sound like they knew what they were talking about
The whole post seems weird. Between the compression miss, listing cast iron block and 5 valves per cylinder like those are universal positives, and asking about reviving engines from the last 25 years but mentioning a bespoke supercar engine that you're unlikely to ever hear in person not to mention own. I would've expected everyone to bring up engines like the AMC 4L I6 or the Honda K series...
Push it back a few more years; Ford 300 I6. It was used in trucks and vans. They were just good workhorse engines. Go back further and I would go for the Buick 455. Extreme torque. Go back even further? Ford 255 Flat V8. Simple and elegant. Lots of things done to them for over 80 years, image OEM with billions of resources.
300 I6 is my pick. It used timing gears
i would love a 300 pickup
If you want a basic answer, LFA’s V10. I would personally go for the LS7 or Ford’s Voodoo V8 tho.
So many good choices to pick from and the LS7 and Voodoo would have to be my answer too. Absolutely legendary engines.
merlin or GTFO
Airplane engine? I mean I get the sound but those are definitely older than 25 years and this is a car sub
Merlin swap a Miata!
Complaining about the LFA's sound is **truly** a terminally-online opinion
I have grown to love reliability so I would just keep the 2UZ-FE in production for eternity.
Somewhat similarly I would bring back the 3S-GTE. Not the last one though (integrated turbocharger, no thank you), the revision 3. And ideally also the BEAMS version separately. Tbh, this is mostly just to ensure I'll find a new one if it ever pops lol, but the BEAMS would also make a good GR86 engine.
was going to post this. 3UZ in my LS430 is rock solid too, although the 1UZ is supposedly slightly more reliable due to thicker piston rods. at 145k it still runs like it's brand new. it's not too inefficient either (at least in the LS), i can get 26-27mpg on the highway. the LX and Land Cruiser are a different story though.
All phenomenal engines that will likely outlive us all. The mileage in my 100 series is pretty poor but it is also 26 years old, 5000+ lbs, 4spd auto, and has the aerodynamics of Ceaușescu's palace. A worthwhile trade-off for the 2.5 decades of flawless service. Much of the 365k miles have also been spent towing and in general, abusing the poor thing.
7.3 powerstroke, 12v Cummins, and 6.9 IDI (non turbo) Edit: and 1.9 tdi
So just something that you have to shut off at drive throughs!
I dunno, every 6.9 idi that I had the misfortune of driving was a complete turd at everything.
4g63t so they can re-release the Evo9. I don’t care about rich men’s toys. Bring back the fun car of the people. As close to how it was as possible. I’ve had much more powerful and “better” and faster cars but I’d take a reissued 9 over even my current boosted Atom for our smiles per mile. I think that is within 25 years but my old ass may be misremembering.
*Blackwing*
I don’t think that one is dead just yet, is it? I do know they’re made in low numbers for sure
Not dead yet but it’s got a short life ahead of it, but I took the meaning in the OP as choosing an engine that would be able to be made perpetually no matter what happens with emissions.
K20Z
Honda F20C. Bring back the formula one based engine designs!
Why is this so far down? The F20/F22 is what *made* the S2000. People clamoring for a new one just don't understand that it is not possible to even come close to that greatness anymore. Not in a production car, at least.
Evasive made the S2000 Type R featuring updated body work, and the CTR's K20C1. which hauls ass and looks amazing, but I just don't think that captures the same spirit as the S2000. I would love for a new S2000 to come out, but with today's new enviorment of engines, I just don't know how Honda would capture that same charm. Turbocharged engines are fun but high revving NA engines are so unique, and it seems they're all gone expect for the GMA T.50
It's not a engine I want, it's fuel ! A bio diesel fuel that doesn't gum up whether it's old or cold! OM606 Mercedes.
GM LS7 with direct injection, VVT, and 1500 more rpm redline
I love seeing videos of people taking pushrod V8s and making them sing. Several LS engines that can top 10000 RPMs is just fun for me. It's funny when people say pushrods can't Rev. I saw a 75yo man at the drag races with his 283 SBC powered Essex, and he was banging gears on it at 9000 RPMs with no roll cage running 10s. What a bad ass.
Surprised no one here said the JZ or RB yet. Although I think an emissions cleared ZZ632 or Hellephant would be fun to see. Street legal Cobra Jets? Anybody?
VR6 in a sport model. Mercedes 5 cylinder Diesel. 3.0 6cyl diesel.
Mazda R26B. There was never a street version but there should have been. Bring back the RX7 with that and AWD in a small chassis.
There was a time not long ago that Mazda and Fiat/Alfa Romeo seemed to be cozy. I had dreams of them finding a way to plop a rotary turbo of some kind into a 4c based CF chassis.
The Vulcan V6.
I was under the impression that modern engines are better than they've ever been, no?
Pretty much with one however, the smaller displacement.
SR20
M3s S65 but without corporate bean counters downgrading internals to lower cost of production That engine was designed to be a lot beefier, somehow make the 4.4 standard and try to further re-engineer it to improve low end torque, and you’ve got a monster
LS7 with improved valves GM3800 cause its a brick shithouse of an engine Ford 7.3 Turbo Diesel cause I miss the Excursion
Ford Barra and stateside available
Here's an outliner Hyundai 5.0 V8 / Nissan 5.0 V8
The BMW engine from the McLaren F1. Final answer.
20b. Any other answer is wrong. 👀
F20 from the s2000 then sale the patient to Toyota for the 86.
Not a truck fan, but, The Detroit Diesel. 2 stroke diesel, many shapes and sizes...marine to over the road. To make it compliant would truly be magic...
The Detroit 2 stroke diesels.
M113K
Hate to break it to you OP but the F50 was more than 25 years ago.
Sure I missed the 25yr mark by 2 years. But some give-or-take is okay
Ford should have an i6 in the US still. I'm jealous of Australia. I'd like to buy a Barra and put it in something here
Mazda 20B 3 rotor.
Either the Volvo b8444s or Mercedes m156
Honda C32B.
EJ22T
Busso V6
Mopar slant six
3.6 Subaru Boxer 6-cyl but with twin turbos
I'm running the 3.6 but didn't think it could handle twin turbos. How much would I have to upgrade the internals for that to be feasible...hypothetically speaking...
Any sleeve valve engine. I know they're more than 25 years old but that's what I want.
Honda B18C5. BMW S38. Any of the old Cadillac supercharged inline-8 cylinder engines, or with a V16. And the engine from 'The Beast of Turin, a 28.4L inline six. Yes, that is 1730 cubic inches!
AMC 4.0L straight 6. Let Jeep have one good reliable part
AMC 4.0L straight 6. Let Jeep have one good reliable part
V10 s85.
All of these answers are wrong. If you somehow made the rotary zero emissions you would be changing the world forever because you solved material science
Hellcat
1.9 TDI
Nothing crazy, I just want either a twin turbo or supercharger kit to be CARB certified so that I could daily a boosted 2018 R8 V10 Plus in California without worrying about getting in trouble. I can't afford any of that stuff, but if I could I would.
Something affordable, maybe an LS engine
Current pushrod 6.0L GM. Compact size, potent. Fits well in nearly anything.
1.9 ALH TDI from VW
The title would imply a small compact design with good power to weight potential.... I would choose an LS-x and install those magical water molecule splitting glow plugs that are plug and play with the standard spark plugs. Fill the tank with water and let those magical plugs split the water molecule on contact.
Love seeing the f50 get some love, absolute peak Ferrari in my opinion. That said from a more budget stand point, give me the 4g63t. Absolutely incredible engine
Dodge Viper V10
Cummins 12 valve. Fight me.
2JZ no shit!
I believe the 2trfe 2.7 in my 2011 Toyota Tacoma would be a good candidate. Although it is pretty under powered, it’s never had any issues. I’m just about to cross over 220k.
Ford 4.9 big six.
Between the JZ, UZ, 4G63, Honda B-series or RB. For something diesel maybe the 1.9 TDI.
3UR-FE out of all things. That 5.7L out of the Tundra and land cruiser is all that I can happily afford.
The ferrari ripping canvas sound is from the firing order and exhaust system design. You can make a mercedes V12 sound like a Ferrari the way Pagani did: https://youtu.be/ahtenv_Y56A?si=9aWGd5g1K4SgnnXF https://youtube.com/shorts/s-HDo9FTkOc?si=H7R2mlb4DsDs8ybq
[удалено]
VW TDI ALH but with a better automatic or the manual. Easily mid 50mpg
454 Big Block Chevy
Mercedes M113K, or if I can go back 35 years then the OM606
The LFA V10 would be dope if Toyota put it more affordable cars. Otherwise the 2JZ-GTE would be cool. I would love to have had that engine in other cars stock aside from the Aristo V300 and Supra.
The mighty 4.0 Barra
LFA V10
RB26DETT. Straight six, twin turbo. Takes care of getting the groceries and track day.
GM 3800. Good torque, decent mileage, runs damn near forever.
The Mercedes M275 Twin Turbo V12 handmade by AMG craftsmen. It's still emissions compliant but the Mercedes CEO wants the "progressive propulsion" of electrification even when it literally adds 1000 lbs and the complexity of a supercomputer to manage it. While improved to coil on cylinder design for the M279, a similar resiliency could be achieved with updated aftermarket coil packs and NGK's Ruthenium HX spark plugs. Worth the effort for the power potential at *lighter weight* than V8 Hybridization for a greater 798hp that can be achieved by new [M275 turbo upgrades](https://www.60-130.com/showthread.php?46811-SpeeDriven-SL65-AMG-M275-V12-turbocharger-upgrade-dyno-results-798-wheel-horsepower), coil packs, NGK plugs, Green Filter Co. air filters and a RENNtech tune.
Tundra 5.7
Rover V8, not because it was any good just that it'd be funny to continue dragging a engine from 1960 even further into the future.
Since you didn't specify that the engine had to be produced in a car that sold during that time: May I introduce you to the Hellephant 426 Crate Engines: https://www.dcperformance.com/crate-engine
I'm surprised I haven't seen a comment about the 2JZ.
I miss straight-sixes. Maybe the Jag AJ6 or the BMW S54....
The Rover/Buick V8
I'm gonna be a bit boring and say the Volvo B23. It is pretty much fool proof as long as it gets new oil once per decade.
The entire Volvo Redblock series is awesome in general. It can also be very not boring if turbo.
OM 606, or the 1.9TDI. Those bastards are bulletproof. Just imagine they could go all out on reliability and just send it with a giant truck turbo bolted on the side. Enough torque to slow down the earth with each launch
Audi's 5.0 biturbo V10 really really deserved to go in a better chassis than the C6. I'd bring it back and give it the time to shine in some dumb, insane hypercar. Might be difficult though, as bugatti won't hear about anything with less than 16 cylinders.
Someone already said it but the original 4.2 TT Blackwing.
Ford 300 I6
I would say every manufacturer that had an I6 in the 80's and 90's should bring them back.
2008 Toyota 1.8l
27 years now (if we go by last date of production) but holy hell the Subaru EG33 is a special engine, I'd love to have them throw that in a modern car (maybe with a stick?)
Jaguar V12? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70nyn9LH_bQ
The BMW V12 from the McLaren F1. That engine is a piece of art.
2006 duramax engines