I would guess this guy has an actual truck for towing his boat and bought the CyberTruck for other stuff, then thought it'd be a fun experiment to try it for towing this one time.
It's the same 3 part story every time.
1. Buy EV.
1. Use it to do a thing EVs aren't good at (at least not yet)
1. Act shocked that the EV isn't good at the thing EVs aren't good at.
Generates a lot of views for the youtube account, though, so there's that.
It can tow a decent amount. It just can't tow *far*. The cybertruck, with a 122kWh battery, carries the equivalent of roughly 3.3 gallons of diesel or 3.6 gallons of gas.
The primary limiting factor for EV performance is the energy per weight, and less so per volume, of batteries. In normal driving, this is less evident because of how efficient EVs are compared to ICEs. Towing makes the energy limits all that much more evident.
4000 pounds is really not that large in the grand scheme of things. It is a decent sized boat, sure, for a lot of people but a typical half ton pickup can tow 6-9k pounds and a few can go well over 10. CT is rated to 11k.
Not everybody needs that much but an electric truck just wouldn't be anywhere close to practical for a travel trailer or similar weight.
It's more about aerodynamic drag than weight. That pontoon boat creates a lot more than a similarly sized monohull. Doesn't help that conventional pickups also punch a bigger hole through the air, and the boat rides in a bit of a slipstream.
We'd get the same highway milage towing a 4500lb boat that we did with an open trailer with maybe 500lbs of items while moving. It's all in aerodynamics unless you are doing a lot of stop/start or hill climbs.
> Doesn't help that conventional pickups
This is why the Hummer EV suffers less range loss towing than any of the other electric trucks: it is already shaped like a massive brick
4000 lb is about what's legal for a EU MK2 Focus to tow, and the rear springs on those consistently snap in half if you put a hair more than the max weight on the hitch lol (ok maybe 2500 lb extra isn't a hair more but still). That weight for a truck, a vehicle whose only purpose is to tow (a van is just better for most if you don't plan on ever towing honestly) or be unnecessarily large I guess, is just utterly pathetic. But I don't think Tesla thought anyone would buy the Cybertruck for anything other than showing off anyway which probably plays a role in why it's designed to look as ridiculous as possible. Could've at least made the grille height lower to increase pedestrian safety and make it look even more like a wedge but I guess vehicular manslaughter is part of the fun of owning one.
Weight doesn’t have much of an effect at all. It has to do with the aerodynamics.
It hurts gas/diesel trucks even more - but they can “charge” in just 5 minutes whereas an EV would take 10-30min.
Hurts diesel even more? No way. The Cybertruck essentially dropped to 1/3 range with a 4k lb load and this test is more like a 40-50% drop with a 7k diesel load, camper too which is a giant brick: https://tfltruck.com/2018/06/mpg-challenge-most-efficient-truck-towing-listed-specs/
Everywhere I’ve seen the EVs towing get murdered on range beyond what diesel and even most gas applications would. IMO they’re completely impractical for towing long distance.
What's hilarious is that my '03 S10 I special ordered new with heavy leaves... is a standard cab 6' bed, slightly modded 130-35hp 4cyl 5 spd that I dealer optioned with a 4.10 gear with Eaton locking diff and Class III receiver is rated for 6k lbs. towing and 1700lbs cargo capacity and loaded will go around 350-375 miles non stop on 18 gallons of fuel... and go around 550 highway miles unloaded on the same amount of fuel... and that CT struggles to get any distance with a pitiful 4k lbs.
With my paid off trade, factory rebate, tax/title that truck came to $5k BRAND NEW. Plus the $1500 I spent for the dealer to option in the new rear before I took delivery and $700 or so I spent on the parts for a 3" lift kit and 30x9.50 A/T tires.
**Moral of the story:** My inexpensive trucklet that cost less than a 1/10th of the CyberFlunk and has put in 21 years of service so far is far more useful than a battery powered refrigerator for towing and other truck stuff and CT owners are smooth brained for thinking they bought a "truck".
The air drag on a travel trailer is murder on fuel economy. If you tow a car on a car hauler of similar weight it's about 4-5 mpg difference. At least with my 1/2 ton Chevy. And a pontoon boat is also going to be horrible for air drag.
Right so, it would be even worse on a CyberTruck which makes it even more of terrible choice for the types of recreational towing people regularly buy trucks for.
Oh all the electric trucks are terrible for towing from a range perspective. 3500lbs+ causes every single one on the market to have less than 140 miles of range. 7500lbs drops it to like 90-110 max in every case. Including the CT.
They have the power in spades. But they sure as hell don't have the range. And even bigger battery banks have their own issues. The energy density is just to low for EVs to replace ICE in the towing area.
My KIA Sportage which doesn't even come with a tow hitch installed stock can pull 3,000 pounds alone. And that's not even really meant to tow anything larger than a trailer with a snowmobile/Jet ski/Motorcycle or a small fishing boat.
To lose this much range when you are stated to be able to tow 11,000 pounds is beyond pathetic.
Manufactures need top be required to list towing range at a certain tow weight rather than the total amount for EV's. Being able to tow 11,000 pounds for 5 miles is literally worthless for 99% of use cases.
Maybe not. Tesla pre-empted the discussion by making it about towing a Prosche quickly to distract.
All the other narketing points are just additional distractions.
You see, this guy’s problem was that he tried to use his Cybertruck as a truck, not for its intended purpose of being a conversation piece for the other people in the Google office parking garage.
Even though that’s kind of a joke, I think you hit the nail on the head. In actuality, that’s what it’s designed to do and it does it exceptionally well. It‘s successful because it’s dumb. The online hate only gives it more attention and makes it more successful. Ironically, I think the people who hate it most are helping to make it successful. It’s pretty frustrating that plenty of good vehicles have failed in the market, but this one seems to be succeeding.
is that going to pan out long term though? we’re still in the hype phase of this product. it might not even get a proper refresh at the rate its reputation is tanking.
It might stick around as a stupid halo product like the hummer EV because god knows tesla needs one with the roadster being MIA.
I don’t know. I don’t think reputation matters much at all, especially to buyers. People will buy it as long as it continues to get attention. It’s really, really good at getting attention
>Does it need to though? The Veyron cost $16mil each to manufacture and were sold for $1.5mil. It’s a rolling advertisement.
rolling advertisement for what or who exactly? it's not like a regular joe is going to see one, thinks it's cool and head to the Bugatti dealer to pick one up
> In actuality, that’s what it’s designed to do and it does it exceptionally well
It's not a halo car, even Tesla would've preferred a truck that was practical and utilitarian in addition to being a conversation piece. Quality issues aside, it's just not very practical for the average truck buyer, and there are way more of those than there are people looking for a $100k conversation piece.
It really is a monument to Elon's vanity and a testament to the fact that no one in Tesla's management had the balls to raise their hand and ask if this was really the best use of the company's resources. I have a feeling both the Roadster they promised 5 years ago and a low-cost model below the Model 3 would've sold better than the Cybertruck.
> It really is a monument to Elon's vanity and a testament to the fact that no one in Tesla's management had the balls to raise their hand and ask if this was really the best use of the company's resources.
Dude I swear it was a joke and then folks pre-ordered it and well that's history.
Tesla could destroy all other EV trucks, but instead they made this.
> Dude I swear it was a joke and then folks pre-ordered it and well that's history.
That was my impression too. Elon was trying to be edgy and people put down his deposits on it, which convinced him that it needed to be built.
The R1T is a good example of a functional, practical pickup that doesn't look like anything else on the road, but not at the expense of its utility.
> The R1T is a good example of a functional, practical pickup that doesn't look like anything else on the road, but not at the expense of its utility.
Except its bed is tiny and it does indeed look like every other truck on the road?
Based off [sales](https://jalopnik.com/tesla-cybertruck-is-already-the-second-most-popular-ele-1851480941), recognition, and the frequency of hearing/seeing stories about them. Some owners are selling and a lot aren’t. People buy them because side they continue to get attention. Presumably you’re not a fan of the truck, but you know about the bottom falling out. The truck is really good at getting attention
I've long been convinced the seeds of the pervasive cybertruck hate subs that hit r/all every day are Tesla marketers. Wildly unrelated threads still get cybertruck comments and they go to the top. No chance it's entirely organic.
> It‘s successful because it’s dumb
I'm not going to say the market for $90k vehicles that are intentionally-dumb doesn't exist, but I'm not sure it's big enough to justify the hundreds of millions spent developing and building this clownmobile. They've sold less than 15k total so far, and I'm really not sure there are *that* many more people out there who want to light that much money on fire "for the lulz".
The XM filled the same niche and its already slated to be killed off
I'm sure cybertruck sales hurt xm sales though. It's the only thing out there more obnoxious and hideous
Chevy SS: affordable sports sedan, amazing engine, 6 speed manual.
Honda CRZ: hybrid sports car with great efficiency. Basically a kinda fun, 2 seat Prius that also looks pretty decent.
Toyota FJ Cruiser: very capable off roader, iconic and unique design, loved by many
Plenty of others but those came to mind. There’s various reasons each car fails, sometimes the vehicle is good but it still fails in the market
Chevy SS was designed to fail, it was literally only brought over to satisfy Australian regulations not to sell in any volume.
The Honda CRZ was replaced for far more successful designs in North America, same deal with the FJ Cruiser, which never sold like the 4Runner, and is largely popular now because it has all the available parts from a Tundra/4Runner/etc. but was slightly cheaper new/resale.
You may as well have posted the plymouth prowler, none of the cars you posted were amazing buys that people just didn't get. The FJ Cruiser is laughably worse than a 4Runner in nearly every way, the CRZ is worse than the related Accord models that followed and the Chevy SS also is mythologized by a lot of people who have never driven one.
Have you ever driven those cars OP?
Drove an SS once. I own a CRZ. I have a few friends with FJs.
The SS is fun. It’s a reasonably priced v8 manual sports sedan, that no longer exists. CRZ was not replaced, there is no 2 seat hybrid. It’s not a sports car but it’s fun to toss around. The accord is a very different vehicle, weighs about 600 lbs more, and is not as fun or interesting. People still love the FJ even if it’s “laughably worse.” Not everyone wants a 4Runner, I fail to see why another interesting option is a bad thing.
Just because there is a “better” option does not mean a vehicle is bad. Variety is a good thing, people value different aspects, and all the cars I mentioned brought something unique to the market that no longer exists. Regardless, I think we can probably agree all 3 of those cars are “better” than a cybertruck, but people don’t care about them nearly as much as the cybertruck.
Drop the truck name, call it a cyber vehicle and all problems solved. No one who buys the cyber vehicle to do truck stuff and truck people would rather fuck a mop than own an EV. The cybertruck is literally for no one.
> It‘s successful because it’s dumb.
It's not successful. They claimed 2M reservations. They've sold 11K CTs. There are 2.5-3K already produced, sitting around in parking lots, waiting for buyers.
I’ve seen dozens of contractors who do real work with Rivians and now Cybertrucks.
Two of the electricians building our new factory have two Rivian company trucks and they love them. This is in California. I probably see a few everyday.
Turns out, “truck stuff” isn’t just limited to what a 50-60 year old southern, boomer, lake guy thinks it is.
Not everyone who owns a truck needs to tow or haul a boat all the time - or ever.
> Not everyone who owns a truck needs to tow or haul a boat all the time - or ever.
I really do hate the circle jerk on tow distance. If you need to tow daily or even just somewhat often, an EV truck isn't going to be great for you.
If you need to travel 600 miles a day, again not great.
> Not everyone who owns a truck needs to tow or haul a boat all the time - or ever.
Yea, and that's why we need things like small trucks with large beds. Bring back the 2-door trucks! We don't need giant vanity trucks to do work.
That is pretty much the issue with all EV trucks. They will be great for replacing the trucks used for hauling the kids to school and getting groceries. But they are all terrible for something like towing a boat, RV, or any heavy trailer for any significant distance. People doing that would be much better off with a regular truck or even some of the hybrid models that are coming out.
They’re not all in Silicon Valley parking lots, why I saw on the other week driving around upstate ny with nj plates headed west… I suppose it’s possible it was headed to a Silicon Valley parking lot.
They’re made in Austin. Just wait, they’ll eventually hear the songs of their people in the wind and migrate west. I had to laugh when I saw the cyber truck in bumfuck ny because it’s yet another low production vehicle I’ve seen out the in the wild before the Nissan Z.
Yeah, I live near the factory that makes them so I see them on the transport trucks pretty much every day. I have seen quite a few on the road too. Still haven’t seen a Nissan Z in the wild.
Eh, it’s a big difference though. From my research just now an F250 gets about 14-15 mpg without towing, and towing 15,000 lbs drops you down to about 8.5 mpg. Looks like you’d get in the ballpark of 11.5-12 mpg towing 4,000.
So in an F250 you would still get about 80% of your range, where the cyber truck is sitting at about 33%.
And as the author points out, it’s compounded by the fact that not only do you have to stop more but stopping is massively more inconvenient in terms of speed to refuel / recharge and just hooking up to the line.
> and absurdly fast for a pickup truck its size.
This should not be a beneficial statement for any vehicle of this size. Large trucks and SUVs not only don't need to, but *shouldn't*, be fast. Their suspension setup and generally large wheel size do not make them performance vehicles. Anything can be made to accelerate quickly, but how does it behave if it has to brake or swerve abruptly? The giant death missiles on the road of all flavors need to be toned down a bit.
To be fair, any of the large American and German SUVs and trucks released in the past 15 years are death missiles at above parking lot speeds. They carry so much energy at speed due to their weight.
Now with EVs also being very heavy currently, it's not a suprise
I mean heck: all cars got heavy af, look at a Toyota Camry which also is getting up to 1,7t. And that’s a comparably light vehicle. The new M5 is 2,5 FUCKING TONS! And that’s supposed to be a “sport sedan”.
I mean with the development of technology, hybridization and especially safety systems I would rather be hit by a modern 2t vehicle than a 1t vehicle from the 70s (at the same speed, and at least in Europe thanks to stricter pedestrian safety rules). But I am very curious how it will develop with electric vehicles, /looking at you electric G-Class with only 400kg additional load capacity/
So weird and wild to me that everyone is willing to trample on how bad other drivers are. Just look at /r/idiotsincars. Especially here where everyone presumes they’re Andretti.
And yet, bring up that maybe people should have actual training or a step of inhibition in the least before piloting a rocket ship, and suddenly folks are sticking up for the idiots in cars. Maybe an admission they might be the idiots themselves.
Many strong towing vehicle (like semi trucks) are tuned for massive low end torque and have relatively little horsepower (400-500) but have massive torque (2,000+ lb ft). They are not fast.
I find a problem with the terms. Fast is used to describe velocity. Quick is used to describe acceleration.
Pickups aren’t really “fast” or much faster than they were 20 years ago. They’ve had speed limiters on them (as well as most cars) to not exceed tire speed ratings. Most trucks (including the CT) have a governor on them below 120, and many are below 110. They have grown quicker over the years, and it’s often the case that things that provide better towing ability (more power, deeper gears, better transmission gear ratios, etc) also increase acceleration ability.
Pickups aren’t going to be great at handling/evasive maneuvers compared to some cars. That’s a given. They aren’t far off either. A new F150 does MT’s figure 8 test and pulls similar Gs as a new Corolla, Mazda 3, and Sentra. Braking is a similar story, with pickups having comparable stopping distances from 60mph as sedans… around 130ft. For reference, MT tested the Model 3 (after an update) had a stopping distance of 133 feet (pre-update, it was 152 feet).
Braking distances have gotten better for the same reason acceleration has… The stuff for increasing towing capability increases ability when unladen. 20 years ago, the typical full size “1/2 ton” PU brake disc was 12”x1”. Today, it’s 14”x1.5”. The calipers/pads have also increased in size.
That said… Regardless of truck or car, 0-60 in sub-4 seconds is quicker than most drivers are capable of handling.
Right, the range decrease isn't the problem so much as the difficulty of recharging with a trailer.
If chargers were set up more like gas stations, to allow pull-through, it would go a long way towards mitigating the impracticality of towing with an EV.
Ironically Tesla also put it in the worst position possible to charge a truck too. You'll need to back into a majority of charging stations. It should be in the front on the side.
This is more of an American problem. Clown issue though. Many stations in Europe are pull through. But in the U.S. there is some weird fixation of not making them full through.
Eh, yes and no, I'd argue range is still an issue since gasoline is energy dense enough that large trucks can compensate with large tanks. But gasoline/diesel trucks will also lose pretty much equivalent range towing but they often start with tanks good for 500-600mi (sometimes more) unladen so they'll still get 250-300 with a boat hooked up.
Won't save you money but it does save you stop time even if the charging stations were configured for trailers. EVs are good at a lot of things now but towing still just isn't one of them. I honestly don't get the constant hammering here though, EVs don't need to be 100% better at everything.
If everyone used EVs for everything except towing it would still have a huge impact. Let gasoline (or maybe even hydrogen) handle the towing requirements.
As the driver of an EV sedan I agree with all of your points. Also the charging station configuration still can be an issue for cars, although at most places it isn’t. The bigger issue is that charging stations should be placed in locations where there’s a restroom and some option to grab a fast bite.
I never understood the move away from V8 to ecoboost. I dug into the numbers once. Prev year V8 and following year V6 turbo: engines weighed the same, made the same power, used the same amount of fuel. And the V8 had much smaller parts count, simpler overall and had reliability nailed.
You notice the fuel economy bump while driving around town. It’s not much different on the highway and it’s sometimes worse while towing.
The lower end torque is also fun.
As an ev owner I agree. The Silverado on the other hand has a towing range of 220 miles ( 450 unloaded). That actually doesn’t sound too bad though. Same problem with charging stations not being setup for towing but that is a problem that can be overcome with overtime with more popularity. This is too expensive right now though because it has an absolutely massive battery and might always be too expensive.
Something like the ramcharger might be a better option, at least over the next 10 years as infrastructure and battery technology catches up. 690 mile combined range when unloaded. 141 ev only range.
Here's a review showing 8.1 mpg with an F-150 Limited when towing a 5000 lb boat at a constant 70 mph, more than a 50% drop from the same truck without a trailer. But this may be a worst case scenario as it was at 9 PSI of boost just cruising.
https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1123297_review-update-2019-ford-f-150-limited-shows-great-power-comes-with-great-thirst
My F-150 gets \~1,000 km on a full tank unloaded on the highway.
The starting point for the range drop is significantly different. And fueling up in 5 minutes after 500km is very different from an hour charge where you need to un-hook the trailer every 100km.
So yeah, it's very, very different.
This is just a false equivalency. An f-250 would only be reduce by about 20% mpg at this weight, this guy is at almost 66% reduction.
Not only the depletion rate, but also the inconvenience of time and charging with a trailer.
They do, but the percent drop isn't as much because the engine efficiency increases with the higher load of towing the trailer. That mitigates the mpg loss.
The opposite is true for EVs, they lose efficiency at higher loads.
How are people still trying to use this as a “gotcha” for EVs? Yes, towing dramatically reduces the range. Yes, that is one of the currently shortcomings of EV technology. No, this is not a secret to anyone.
EVs have their place, they’re just not practical for long range towing *at the moment*. The technology will eventually get there.
We need more series hybrid, aka the rex setup. Truck with 75ish kwh battery pack, a mounting point for a gas/diesel generator at the trunk, and voila you have best of both worlds.
If that doesn’t sound manly enough for yall, guess what, a fucking train locomotive uses the same system (diesel-hybrid). If that doesn’t sound manly enough, idk what is.
The problem is that in threads like this, half the discourse is people saying "well of course, this is obvious, everyone knows EVs aren't suited to this" and the other half is "this is so overplayed! there's no issue! ICE cars are exactly the same! It's FUD!"
It's the overzealous evangelising that everyone should be in a BEV yesterday that prompts people to say "see this? This is why I'm waiting". And as you've pointed out: that's a completely logical stance to have. But sometimes people need to have it spelled out that there are going to continue to be (continually shrinking) segments where BEVs just don't make sense yet.
I think people are just keen to regularly point out “we aren’t ready for this”. Because, remember, this isn’t a “hey cool EV’s are being added to the market for those who find them practical”, period, no… we’re in “major automakers are phasing out gas engines altogether within the next couple of years so life is gonna suck butts until EV charge times equal that of filling a gas tank”.
Post anything negative about the Cybertruck and it’ll get a couple thousand clicks from angry redditors alone. People here are so weirdly obsessed with hating that stupid thing. I’d honestly forget it exists if people here didn’t have to hate post about it so often.
and the aerodynamics of said load are absolutely key
i got 7 mpg in a 02 4.3l blazer towing a basic enclosed 5x9 uhaul trailer. had a damn headwind and bogged down to 45 in 3rd gear on the interstate a few times.
Yeah but it could tow a Porsche in a fake ¼ mile drag strip, so they could make a viral video.
Towing a boat for hours is boring. Elon doesn’t care about boring things, only exciting things.
There was a woman on YouTube that had a f150 lightning and she was trying to tow a 28 foot airstream camper. Took her 3-4 days to cross Nebraska. The last 30 miles the lightning was up on a flatbed. She kept boasting that it would go anywhere a gas or diesel pickup would go. I don’t see her on YouTube anymore.
A fun exercise. It has a 120kwh battery pack and averaged 120 (90-150) miles per charge .
At a relatively cheap 45 cents a kwH to recharge at an EV charging station, that's $54... to drive only 120 miles.
That's 45 cents a mile.
Let's compare to a Raptor towing a 4,000 lb boat (just like the example). Over 400 miles, a big-daddy Raptor got 13 mpg (on expensive premium). At $4.75 a gallon, that's 36.5 cents per mile.
So the Cybertruck costs about 18% more in energy to haul things than a Raptor once you're outside of your home charging range... And your stopping to refuel twice as often, and many times as long.
Yeah. That’s part of the EV problem right now. I own a Lightning. I drive 40 miles round trip daily to work. I charge at $0.13 / kWh. It’s fantastic for my use case. If you’re going to be long distance traveling or hauling, buy an ICE truck until the EV infrastructure catches up. This is common knowledge to anyone who gives 5 minutes of research into EVs and it’s pretty annoying these clickbait articles get so much attention.
Pieces won't stay on, range is 1/3 what is claimed, windshield wiper won't wipe, brakes don't work at times, can't reliably go through a car wash, and you'll cut yourself deep enough to need stitches while you're cleaning off the fingerprints.
But you can put on a light show and make the car growl as you walk away.
Sounds like they had their priorities straight.
How about rivian truck? Or Ford lightning? This is just the nature of EVs.
But you gotta get Tesla and Elon in there or it won't get the views/clicks/up votes.
This truck would do exactly what I would want to do with a truck - drive myself around emissions free on my commute, take my family on camping trips, and go get stuff from Home Depot and the local rock/lanscaping yard. It is just too expensive when I could go out and get a used Lightning Lariat in the low $50s, which I still think is a bit much for me.
Towing is going to be a gas vehicle’s domain for a while until pull-through charging stations and sub 15-minute charge sessions every couple hours are easily achievable.
Imo even with that EVs still wont work. If you get to a location and the charger is broken you're fucked. No one is going to be able to come charge you up. Now you yourself need to be towed.
“If you get to a location and a charger is broke…”
This was the case for gas vehicles too as fueling infrastructure was built out; it is not a phenomenon unique to EVs. Every vehicle in the world is reliant on a working infrastructure. If you think that EV infrastructure is impossible to build out in the next 10-20 years, all you need to do is look to Europe. It is very easy to get around with an EV there. They are only a few years ahead of us. The cool thing about EVs is that I can make my own fuel with a few solar panels and an inverter. I cannot make my own fuel. I am wholly reliant on someone else making fuel and then selling it to me.
I saw a rivian with a double axle trailer parked at the launch the other day, first time ever seeing one at the ramp. Wish I could ask the owner his real world experience
Yep... We've got a YouTuber here who has one, as well as an H1 Hummer that he converted to be an electric vehicle. As a test, he trailered the Hummer and towed it. The results were:
80 miles of range
No pull through charging, so he had to disconnect the trailer every 80 miles, charge, the reconnect. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Charging took an hour and a half
"The significant loss in range while towing, along with the time required to top up the battery, makes the Cybertruck incredibly impractical for any kind of towing purpose, especially over long distances."
Gee whiz... who'd have ever thunk it.
What you need to remember here is when you buy the first generation of anything, it’s always not going to be perfect.
The very first cars suffered from flat tires just from driving on them, you used to have to fill tires almost daily
Didn’t we see this with the testing the F-150 Lightning? I mean it’s got to be lighter than the Cybertruck and it still was struggling for a long distance haul.
I would've thought a truck EV would have more room to have more batteries, and thus more range and capacity.
Imagine an F150 with only 228 miles of range.
They *do* but you quickly start running into diminishing returns as you increase battery size. Batteries are heavy. Trucks are heavy to begin with. A bigger battery pack weighs more, which hurts overall efficiency as you add weight and cuts payload/towing capacity so then you have to beef up the frame and axles to get back some of the GVWR and GCVW (this is supposed to be a truck, after all), which hurts efficiency some more, which means you need an even bigger battery pack and so on and so and etc and such.
GM went nuts stuffing enormous battery packs into the Hummer & Silverado EV and the range is impressive (and the price eye-popping) but the vehicles weigh an absurd amount (even compared to the Cybertruck and Lightning, like, literally a ton to ton and a half more) and their efficiency ends up being not very good meaning they end up costing quite a bit to charge up (and take longer at the same rate) if you’re charging at public sites and paying retail rates.
There’s going to need to be some more breakthroughs on battery weight/density before we see real improvements in the range of electric pickup trucks, especially for towing over a distance.
Right now, an EV pickup truck is a compromise. For some people, the compromises work out favorably for their use case, for others, not so much.
It needs to be tested driving 15 mph, which would be somewhat ideal for wind friction. Curious to see the results.
Probably not a good look for Tesla. 😂
Craig (Flying Wheels) knew that when he made before he made this video. He's working really hard to transition his channel's content.
Had to. He has a Ram I think and I'm sure he knows towing with it decreases the range.
I was just happy that he left it with his Dad and let him tow the boat back down to his house later. lol
For those that don’t own a gas truck and never towed.
The results are not surprising and you get the same results in a gas truck. It’s why as part of the tow package you get. Large gas tank; I’m talking 50gallons. Most truck come with a 35gallon tank.
A truck getting 4-8 mpg while towing is standard.
If the guy wanted to tow he needed to get the extra battery.
It’s why most guys seriously towing regularly just go for the diesel model.
I think that the market for the CyberTruck is the people that by F150s and then just haul yard debris to the dump or pick up a bag or two of mulch at the Home Depot. Maybe toss the bike into the bed and take it to a trail to ride for a bit. Nothing much more than that. Serious haulers by other things like Ram 1500s or 2500 dually with a Cunnings - stuff like that.
ALL electric vehicles are impractical over long distances. They only make sense in dense urban environments where 100% of the trips use less than 50% of the battery. This is city politics writing automotive policy for the rest of the country again.
I use our EV SUV to tow a utility trailer and a boat trailer and it’s the same results. Poor mileage for every EV that tows. It’s expected and no surprises contrary to what the OP is trying to imply with the exceptionally biased article here.
I honestly don’t know which person is dumber, the OP or anyone that would buy a cyber truck thinking it’s going to get great mileage while towing literally anything.
To the absolute surprise of literally no one.
Including the guy who bought the truck I'm sure.
Makes good social media content though eh
I would guess this guy has an actual truck for towing his boat and bought the CyberTruck for other stuff, then thought it'd be a fun experiment to try it for towing this one time.
It's the same 3 part story every time. 1. Buy EV. 1. Use it to do a thing EVs aren't good at (at least not yet) 1. Act shocked that the EV isn't good at the thing EVs aren't good at. Generates a lot of views for the youtube account, though, so there's that.
I bought a f350 but then I found out it’s not a good city commuter and it’s costing me so much I gas. How could I have known!?
That's why you park your Smart car in the bed.
I mean they did do ads with the stupid thing towing a Porsche.
Maybe it was rigged so that the Porsche was actually pushing the Cybertruck. 🤫
Tesla claimed it could tow like a 1 ton and quarter mile like a Scat pack
and it would be amazing offroad. even more than the looks the fact its just not good at the stuff it was supposed to be is why i wouldnt get one.
It can tow a decent amount. It just can't tow *far*. The cybertruck, with a 122kWh battery, carries the equivalent of roughly 3.3 gallons of diesel or 3.6 gallons of gas. The primary limiting factor for EV performance is the energy per weight, and less so per volume, of batteries. In normal driving, this is less evident because of how efficient EVs are compared to ICEs. Towing makes the energy limits all that much more evident.
This is like saying you shouldn’t expect a plane to fly if it happens to be electric, even though it’s sold as a plane and shown flying in the ad.
They sold a truck. Nobody trying to tow with a Model 3. 'Being EV powered' isn't a coverall for being an awful vehicle.
Difference is that the Cybertruck promoted itself as a powerful towing vehicle. You forgot that part.
Moving electrons across molecules will never be as energy dense as combustion.
Doesn't need to be. EV efficiency is much higher.
We’ve known for a while now that EV towing is a rough proposition but it’s especially bad when towing a large load like that.
4000 pounds is really not that large in the grand scheme of things. It is a decent sized boat, sure, for a lot of people but a typical half ton pickup can tow 6-9k pounds and a few can go well over 10. CT is rated to 11k. Not everybody needs that much but an electric truck just wouldn't be anywhere close to practical for a travel trailer or similar weight.
It's more about aerodynamic drag than weight. That pontoon boat creates a lot more than a similarly sized monohull. Doesn't help that conventional pickups also punch a bigger hole through the air, and the boat rides in a bit of a slipstream.
We'd get the same highway milage towing a 4500lb boat that we did with an open trailer with maybe 500lbs of items while moving. It's all in aerodynamics unless you are doing a lot of stop/start or hill climbs.
> Doesn't help that conventional pickups This is why the Hummer EV suffers less range loss towing than any of the other electric trucks: it is already shaped like a massive brick
Yeah we tow 7500 pounds regularly with a Porsche cayenne. 4000 pounds is nothing for a truck, definitely not a “large load”.
4000 lb is about what's legal for a EU MK2 Focus to tow, and the rear springs on those consistently snap in half if you put a hair more than the max weight on the hitch lol (ok maybe 2500 lb extra isn't a hair more but still). That weight for a truck, a vehicle whose only purpose is to tow (a van is just better for most if you don't plan on ever towing honestly) or be unnecessarily large I guess, is just utterly pathetic. But I don't think Tesla thought anyone would buy the Cybertruck for anything other than showing off anyway which probably plays a role in why it's designed to look as ridiculous as possible. Could've at least made the grille height lower to increase pedestrian safety and make it look even more like a wedge but I guess vehicular manslaughter is part of the fun of owning one.
> 4000 pounds is really not that large It certainly is over 1k lbs lighter than the new M5 sedan
A 737 weighs the equivalent of 33 new M5 sedans. It's needs to be at the top of everyone's mind how much the new M5 weighs.
Weight doesn’t have much of an effect at all. It has to do with the aerodynamics. It hurts gas/diesel trucks even more - but they can “charge” in just 5 minutes whereas an EV would take 10-30min.
Hurts diesel even more? No way. The Cybertruck essentially dropped to 1/3 range with a 4k lb load and this test is more like a 40-50% drop with a 7k diesel load, camper too which is a giant brick: https://tfltruck.com/2018/06/mpg-challenge-most-efficient-truck-towing-listed-specs/ Everywhere I’ve seen the EVs towing get murdered on range beyond what diesel and even most gas applications would. IMO they’re completely impractical for towing long distance.
ICE is more efficient at higher loads. It helps to offset some of the drag.
What's hilarious is that my '03 S10 I special ordered new with heavy leaves... is a standard cab 6' bed, slightly modded 130-35hp 4cyl 5 spd that I dealer optioned with a 4.10 gear with Eaton locking diff and Class III receiver is rated for 6k lbs. towing and 1700lbs cargo capacity and loaded will go around 350-375 miles non stop on 18 gallons of fuel... and go around 550 highway miles unloaded on the same amount of fuel... and that CT struggles to get any distance with a pitiful 4k lbs. With my paid off trade, factory rebate, tax/title that truck came to $5k BRAND NEW. Plus the $1500 I spent for the dealer to option in the new rear before I took delivery and $700 or so I spent on the parts for a 3" lift kit and 30x9.50 A/T tires. **Moral of the story:** My inexpensive trucklet that cost less than a 1/10th of the CyberFlunk and has put in 21 years of service so far is far more useful than a battery powered refrigerator for towing and other truck stuff and CT owners are smooth brained for thinking they bought a "truck".
See, I love the Cybertruck, because it makes my Jeep Gladiator look really, really trucky when I park it next to one.
Haha
It’s not about the amount of the load it’s about the distance. EVs are great at local towing.
The air drag on a travel trailer is murder on fuel economy. If you tow a car on a car hauler of similar weight it's about 4-5 mpg difference. At least with my 1/2 ton Chevy. And a pontoon boat is also going to be horrible for air drag.
Right so, it would be even worse on a CyberTruck which makes it even more of terrible choice for the types of recreational towing people regularly buy trucks for.
Oh all the electric trucks are terrible for towing from a range perspective. 3500lbs+ causes every single one on the market to have less than 140 miles of range. 7500lbs drops it to like 90-110 max in every case. Including the CT. They have the power in spades. But they sure as hell don't have the range. And even bigger battery banks have their own issues. The energy density is just to low for EVs to replace ICE in the towing area.
That is a small boat.
Right? Pontoons weigh practically nothing, they're just giant sails. This thing could borderline be pulled by a midsize crossover.
My KIA Sportage which doesn't even come with a tow hitch installed stock can pull 3,000 pounds alone. And that's not even really meant to tow anything larger than a trailer with a snowmobile/Jet ski/Motorcycle or a small fishing boat. To lose this much range when you are stated to be able to tow 11,000 pounds is beyond pathetic. Manufactures need top be required to list towing range at a certain tow weight rather than the total amount for EV's. Being able to tow 11,000 pounds for 5 miles is literally worthless for 99% of use cases.
4000 lbs isnt a large load lol. A ford maverick can do that. 18-22,000 is a large load.
Maybe not. Tesla pre-empted the discussion by making it about towing a Prosche quickly to distract. All the other narketing points are just additional distractions.
All electric trucks have shitty towing range.
Why doesn't it look appealing? Looks like that moon robot but atleast that has a useful purpose
You see, this guy’s problem was that he tried to use his Cybertruck as a truck, not for its intended purpose of being a conversation piece for the other people in the Google office parking garage.
Even though that’s kind of a joke, I think you hit the nail on the head. In actuality, that’s what it’s designed to do and it does it exceptionally well. It‘s successful because it’s dumb. The online hate only gives it more attention and makes it more successful. Ironically, I think the people who hate it most are helping to make it successful. It’s pretty frustrating that plenty of good vehicles have failed in the market, but this one seems to be succeeding.
is that going to pan out long term though? we’re still in the hype phase of this product. it might not even get a proper refresh at the rate its reputation is tanking. It might stick around as a stupid halo product like the hummer EV because god knows tesla needs one with the roadster being MIA.
I don’t know. I don’t think reputation matters much at all, especially to buyers. People will buy it as long as it continues to get attention. It’s really, really good at getting attention
Does it need to though? The Veyron cost $16mil each to manufacture and were sold for $1.5mil. It’s a rolling advertisement.
where are you getting that number from? I heard it cost more to make than they sold for, but it was 2-3m a piece, not 16.
>Does it need to though? The Veyron cost $16mil each to manufacture and were sold for $1.5mil. It’s a rolling advertisement. rolling advertisement for what or who exactly? it's not like a regular joe is going to see one, thinks it's cool and head to the Bugatti dealer to pick one up
> In actuality, that’s what it’s designed to do and it does it exceptionally well It's not a halo car, even Tesla would've preferred a truck that was practical and utilitarian in addition to being a conversation piece. Quality issues aside, it's just not very practical for the average truck buyer, and there are way more of those than there are people looking for a $100k conversation piece. It really is a monument to Elon's vanity and a testament to the fact that no one in Tesla's management had the balls to raise their hand and ask if this was really the best use of the company's resources. I have a feeling both the Roadster they promised 5 years ago and a low-cost model below the Model 3 would've sold better than the Cybertruck.
> It really is a monument to Elon's vanity and a testament to the fact that no one in Tesla's management had the balls to raise their hand and ask if this was really the best use of the company's resources. Dude I swear it was a joke and then folks pre-ordered it and well that's history. Tesla could destroy all other EV trucks, but instead they made this.
> Dude I swear it was a joke and then folks pre-ordered it and well that's history. That was my impression too. Elon was trying to be edgy and people put down his deposits on it, which convinced him that it needed to be built. The R1T is a good example of a functional, practical pickup that doesn't look like anything else on the road, but not at the expense of its utility.
The thing is completely over engineered to get the exact appearances of the concept car. And yet under engineered in like actually important areas.
> The R1T is a good example of a functional, practical pickup that doesn't look like anything else on the road, but not at the expense of its utility. Except its bed is tiny and it does indeed look like every other truck on the road?
>but this one seems to be succeeding. Based on what? Owners are dumping them because the bottom has fallen out.
Based off [sales](https://jalopnik.com/tesla-cybertruck-is-already-the-second-most-popular-ele-1851480941), recognition, and the frequency of hearing/seeing stories about them. Some owners are selling and a lot aren’t. People buy them because side they continue to get attention. Presumably you’re not a fan of the truck, but you know about the bottom falling out. The truck is really good at getting attention
I've long been convinced the seeds of the pervasive cybertruck hate subs that hit r/all every day are Tesla marketers. Wildly unrelated threads still get cybertruck comments and they go to the top. No chance it's entirely organic.
> It‘s successful because it’s dumb I'm not going to say the market for $90k vehicles that are intentionally-dumb doesn't exist, but I'm not sure it's big enough to justify the hundreds of millions spent developing and building this clownmobile. They've sold less than 15k total so far, and I'm really not sure there are *that* many more people out there who want to light that much money on fire "for the lulz".
The XM filled the same niche and its already slated to be killed off I'm sure cybertruck sales hurt xm sales though. It's the only thing out there more obnoxious and hideous
The XM is what hurt XM sales. BMW made a caricature of an Urus and failed.
I'm a huge BMW guy (last 3 cars) and I can honestly say that I would 100% rather have a Cybertruck over an XM and I hate the trucks in general.
I don't like that game. The only version of "would you rather" between BMW and Tesla I want to play is the Z8 or the Lotus-developed roadster.
Which good cars are you referring to which failed in the market? What made them good?
Chevy SS: affordable sports sedan, amazing engine, 6 speed manual. Honda CRZ: hybrid sports car with great efficiency. Basically a kinda fun, 2 seat Prius that also looks pretty decent. Toyota FJ Cruiser: very capable off roader, iconic and unique design, loved by many Plenty of others but those came to mind. There’s various reasons each car fails, sometimes the vehicle is good but it still fails in the market
Chevy SS was designed to fail, it was literally only brought over to satisfy Australian regulations not to sell in any volume. The Honda CRZ was replaced for far more successful designs in North America, same deal with the FJ Cruiser, which never sold like the 4Runner, and is largely popular now because it has all the available parts from a Tundra/4Runner/etc. but was slightly cheaper new/resale. You may as well have posted the plymouth prowler, none of the cars you posted were amazing buys that people just didn't get. The FJ Cruiser is laughably worse than a 4Runner in nearly every way, the CRZ is worse than the related Accord models that followed and the Chevy SS also is mythologized by a lot of people who have never driven one. Have you ever driven those cars OP?
Drove an SS once. I own a CRZ. I have a few friends with FJs. The SS is fun. It’s a reasonably priced v8 manual sports sedan, that no longer exists. CRZ was not replaced, there is no 2 seat hybrid. It’s not a sports car but it’s fun to toss around. The accord is a very different vehicle, weighs about 600 lbs more, and is not as fun or interesting. People still love the FJ even if it’s “laughably worse.” Not everyone wants a 4Runner, I fail to see why another interesting option is a bad thing. Just because there is a “better” option does not mean a vehicle is bad. Variety is a good thing, people value different aspects, and all the cars I mentioned brought something unique to the market that no longer exists. Regardless, I think we can probably agree all 3 of those cars are “better” than a cybertruck, but people don’t care about them nearly as much as the cybertruck.
What is the bar for success for a vehicle? Because the CT has not made Tesla money and certainly hasn’t improved their reputation.
It’s a halo car, it’s a statement, it gets Tesla noticed and is cool. (I personally don’t like it but many others do)
Drop the truck name, call it a cyber vehicle and all problems solved. No one who buys the cyber vehicle to do truck stuff and truck people would rather fuck a mop than own an EV. The cybertruck is literally for no one.
> It‘s successful because it’s dumb. It's not successful. They claimed 2M reservations. They've sold 11K CTs. There are 2.5-3K already produced, sitting around in parking lots, waiting for buyers.
He also picked the worst kind of boat to tow with an EV. Pontoon boats are basically patios on floats, with similar aerodynamics.
I towed a medium-sized pontoon with a Yukon XL once. The aerodynamics made it feel a lot heavier than it really was.
You said it, this just a lifestyle vehicle for idiot tech fanboys.
I’ve seen dozens of contractors who do real work with Rivians and now Cybertrucks. Two of the electricians building our new factory have two Rivian company trucks and they love them. This is in California. I probably see a few everyday. Turns out, “truck stuff” isn’t just limited to what a 50-60 year old southern, boomer, lake guy thinks it is. Not everyone who owns a truck needs to tow or haul a boat all the time - or ever.
> Not everyone who owns a truck needs to tow or haul a boat all the time - or ever. I really do hate the circle jerk on tow distance. If you need to tow daily or even just somewhat often, an EV truck isn't going to be great for you. If you need to travel 600 miles a day, again not great.
> Not everyone who owns a truck needs to tow or haul a boat all the time - or ever. Yea, and that's why we need things like small trucks with large beds. Bring back the 2-door trucks! We don't need giant vanity trucks to do work.
That is pretty much the issue with all EV trucks. They will be great for replacing the trucks used for hauling the kids to school and getting groceries. But they are all terrible for something like towing a boat, RV, or any heavy trailer for any significant distance. People doing that would be much better off with a regular truck or even some of the hybrid models that are coming out.
It's intended purpose appears to be an expensive driveway ornament.
They’re not all in Silicon Valley parking lots, why I saw on the other week driving around upstate ny with nj plates headed west… I suppose it’s possible it was headed to a Silicon Valley parking lot.
True, they’re not all in Silicon Valley. Some of them are in Austin too!
They’re made in Austin. Just wait, they’ll eventually hear the songs of their people in the wind and migrate west. I had to laugh when I saw the cyber truck in bumfuck ny because it’s yet another low production vehicle I’ve seen out the in the wild before the Nissan Z.
Yeah, I live near the factory that makes them so I see them on the transport trucks pretty much every day. I have seen quite a few on the road too. Still haven’t seen a Nissan Z in the wild.
theres no way this thing can clear the ceiling of a parking garage
They aren't actually very tall
Kyle Connor’s first videos of it had it on top of a parking garage. So yes it can.
Which is no different from the vast majority of truck owners.
I'm in a google garage, I'll not start a conversation with that person
Tl;dr: A YouTuber towing a pontoon boat got 1/3 of the trucks range.
“The Tesla Cybertruck suffers from major range issues when towing heavy items”
Massive unaerodynamic things
"Cyber-truck Cyber-Sucks at Truck Stuff."
I'm not surprised. An F-series doing the same thing would probably get single-digit fuel economy.
Eh, it’s a big difference though. From my research just now an F250 gets about 14-15 mpg without towing, and towing 15,000 lbs drops you down to about 8.5 mpg. Looks like you’d get in the ballpark of 11.5-12 mpg towing 4,000. So in an F250 you would still get about 80% of your range, where the cyber truck is sitting at about 33%. And as the author points out, it’s compounded by the fact that not only do you have to stop more but stopping is massively more inconvenient in terms of speed to refuel / recharge and just hooking up to the line.
Not really. I get about 14 mpg pulling 5500. My trailer is prob a bit more aerodynamic than a pontoon boat though.
To the surprise of no one including the YouTuber. All about clicks.
> and absurdly fast for a pickup truck its size. This should not be a beneficial statement for any vehicle of this size. Large trucks and SUVs not only don't need to, but *shouldn't*, be fast. Their suspension setup and generally large wheel size do not make them performance vehicles. Anything can be made to accelerate quickly, but how does it behave if it has to brake or swerve abruptly? The giant death missiles on the road of all flavors need to be toned down a bit.
To be fair, any of the large American and German SUVs and trucks released in the past 15 years are death missiles at above parking lot speeds. They carry so much energy at speed due to their weight. Now with EVs also being very heavy currently, it's not a suprise
I mean heck: all cars got heavy af, look at a Toyota Camry which also is getting up to 1,7t. And that’s a comparably light vehicle. The new M5 is 2,5 FUCKING TONS! And that’s supposed to be a “sport sedan”. I mean with the development of technology, hybridization and especially safety systems I would rather be hit by a modern 2t vehicle than a 1t vehicle from the 70s (at the same speed, and at least in Europe thanks to stricter pedestrian safety rules). But I am very curious how it will develop with electric vehicles, /looking at you electric G-Class with only 400kg additional load capacity/
> The new M5 is 2,5 FUCKING TONS! And that’s supposed to be a “sport sedan”. Well if the sport is bowling and the pins are pedestrians.
But the difference is these cyber trucks have 0-60 times on par or better than most super cars. That gives much less room for driver error.
Agreed. Way too many guys think they can drive their lifted 3/4 ton diesel on mud tires like a sports car because it has power.
Seeing people driving aggressively on wet asphalt with mud tires is terrifying. Like, dude, your stopping distance has tripled. Slow the hell down.
So weird and wild to me that everyone is willing to trample on how bad other drivers are. Just look at /r/idiotsincars. Especially here where everyone presumes they’re Andretti. And yet, bring up that maybe people should have actual training or a step of inhibition in the least before piloting a rocket ship, and suddenly folks are sticking up for the idiots in cars. Maybe an admission they might be the idiots themselves.
Speed is a byproduct of power needed to tow and haul. Do some critical thinking
Many strong towing vehicle (like semi trucks) are tuned for massive low end torque and have relatively little horsepower (400-500) but have massive torque (2,000+ lb ft). They are not fast.
Tell me you don't know where speed comes from without telling me you don't know where speed comes from.
I find a problem with the terms. Fast is used to describe velocity. Quick is used to describe acceleration. Pickups aren’t really “fast” or much faster than they were 20 years ago. They’ve had speed limiters on them (as well as most cars) to not exceed tire speed ratings. Most trucks (including the CT) have a governor on them below 120, and many are below 110. They have grown quicker over the years, and it’s often the case that things that provide better towing ability (more power, deeper gears, better transmission gear ratios, etc) also increase acceleration ability. Pickups aren’t going to be great at handling/evasive maneuvers compared to some cars. That’s a given. They aren’t far off either. A new F150 does MT’s figure 8 test and pulls similar Gs as a new Corolla, Mazda 3, and Sentra. Braking is a similar story, with pickups having comparable stopping distances from 60mph as sedans… around 130ft. For reference, MT tested the Model 3 (after an update) had a stopping distance of 133 feet (pre-update, it was 152 feet). Braking distances have gotten better for the same reason acceleration has… The stuff for increasing towing capability increases ability when unladen. 20 years ago, the typical full size “1/2 ton” PU brake disc was 12”x1”. Today, it’s 14”x1.5”. The calipers/pads have also increased in size. That said… Regardless of truck or car, 0-60 in sub-4 seconds is quicker than most drivers are capable of handling.
Your range drops dramatically when towing with an ICE truck. Why would it be different with an electric one?
Right, the range decrease isn't the problem so much as the difficulty of recharging with a trailer. If chargers were set up more like gas stations, to allow pull-through, it would go a long way towards mitigating the impracticality of towing with an EV.
Ironically Tesla also put it in the worst position possible to charge a truck too. You'll need to back into a majority of charging stations. It should be in the front on the side.
This is more of an American problem. Clown issue though. Many stations in Europe are pull through. But in the U.S. there is some weird fixation of not making them full through.
Eh, yes and no, I'd argue range is still an issue since gasoline is energy dense enough that large trucks can compensate with large tanks. But gasoline/diesel trucks will also lose pretty much equivalent range towing but they often start with tanks good for 500-600mi (sometimes more) unladen so they'll still get 250-300 with a boat hooked up. Won't save you money but it does save you stop time even if the charging stations were configured for trailers. EVs are good at a lot of things now but towing still just isn't one of them. I honestly don't get the constant hammering here though, EVs don't need to be 100% better at everything. If everyone used EVs for everything except towing it would still have a huge impact. Let gasoline (or maybe even hydrogen) handle the towing requirements.
As the driver of an EV sedan I agree with all of your points. Also the charging station configuration still can be an issue for cars, although at most places it isn’t. The bigger issue is that charging stations should be placed in locations where there’s a restroom and some option to grab a fast bite.
[удалено]
I had a truck that went from 18 to 11 when hauling an unloaded trailer just because of the aero
You’re about to be told that it’s not a dramatic drop. I’ve seen similar results while towing with an F-150 3.5 EcoBoost.
I never understood the move away from V8 to ecoboost. I dug into the numbers once. Prev year V8 and following year V6 turbo: engines weighed the same, made the same power, used the same amount of fuel. And the V8 had much smaller parts count, simpler overall and had reliability nailed.
You notice the fuel economy bump while driving around town. It’s not much different on the highway and it’s sometimes worse while towing. The lower end torque is also fun.
While the V8 makes similar peak power, the powerband is much broader for the ecoboost.
Tacoma/other midsize?
My 2500 drops about 25% when towing an ~8k on trailer.
As an ev owner I agree. The Silverado on the other hand has a towing range of 220 miles ( 450 unloaded). That actually doesn’t sound too bad though. Same problem with charging stations not being setup for towing but that is a problem that can be overcome with overtime with more popularity. This is too expensive right now though because it has an absolutely massive battery and might always be too expensive. Something like the ramcharger might be a better option, at least over the next 10 years as infrastructure and battery technology catches up. 690 mile combined range when unloaded. 141 ev only range.
Here's a review showing 8.1 mpg with an F-150 Limited when towing a 5000 lb boat at a constant 70 mph, more than a 50% drop from the same truck without a trailer. But this may be a worst case scenario as it was at 9 PSI of boost just cruising. https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1123297_review-update-2019-ford-f-150-limited-shows-great-power-comes-with-great-thirst
Now, whether long range towing is a reasonable thing to do or plan around is another question, but if you gotta do it, EVs are not quite there yet.
Well for starters you can refill a diesel in under 10 minutes
My old F-150 could still get 450 miles while towing my 19ft boat. My Frontier will do around 300.
My F-150 gets \~1,000 km on a full tank unloaded on the highway. The starting point for the range drop is significantly different. And fueling up in 5 minutes after 500km is very different from an hour charge where you need to un-hook the trailer every 100km. So yeah, it's very, very different.
This is just a false equivalency. An f-250 would only be reduce by about 20% mpg at this weight, this guy is at almost 66% reduction. Not only the depletion rate, but also the inconvenience of time and charging with a trailer.
ICE trucks drop less actually.
They do, but the percent drop isn't as much because the engine efficiency increases with the higher load of towing the trailer. That mitigates the mpg loss. The opposite is true for EVs, they lose efficiency at higher loads.
How are people still trying to use this as a “gotcha” for EVs? Yes, towing dramatically reduces the range. Yes, that is one of the currently shortcomings of EV technology. No, this is not a secret to anyone. EVs have their place, they’re just not practical for long range towing *at the moment*. The technology will eventually get there.
They are not useful for long ranged towing. The torque means that it will tow pretty well until you run out of battery.
Correct, just edited my comment to say they’re not practical for *long range* towing
We need more series hybrid, aka the rex setup. Truck with 75ish kwh battery pack, a mounting point for a gas/diesel generator at the trunk, and voila you have best of both worlds. If that doesn’t sound manly enough for yall, guess what, a fucking train locomotive uses the same system (diesel-hybrid). If that doesn’t sound manly enough, idk what is.
The problem is that in threads like this, half the discourse is people saying "well of course, this is obvious, everyone knows EVs aren't suited to this" and the other half is "this is so overplayed! there's no issue! ICE cars are exactly the same! It's FUD!" It's the overzealous evangelising that everyone should be in a BEV yesterday that prompts people to say "see this? This is why I'm waiting". And as you've pointed out: that's a completely logical stance to have. But sometimes people need to have it spelled out that there are going to continue to be (continually shrinking) segments where BEVs just don't make sense yet.
You’re not allowed to be reasonable with it comes to the cybertruck please, you have to go full spastic rage mode and hate the owner.
it will not
I think people are just keen to regularly point out “we aren’t ready for this”. Because, remember, this isn’t a “hey cool EV’s are being added to the market for those who find them practical”, period, no… we’re in “major automakers are phasing out gas engines altogether within the next couple of years so life is gonna suck butts until EV charge times equal that of filling a gas tank”.
Its arguably already there if you get the Silverado EV with the huge battery instead
Huh, car review on notebookcheck.net, wild.
Tesla = clicks
Post anything negative about the Cybertruck and it’ll get a couple thousand clicks from angry redditors alone. People here are so weirdly obsessed with hating that stupid thing. I’d honestly forget it exists if people here didn’t have to hate post about it so often.
So, nothing that isn't true of every electric vehicle...
No EV is practical towing which is why Tesla chose to appeal to people who don’t tow.
Well that leaves them about 98% of truck owners in the United States, so not too bad of a cut.
Did anyone actually expect it to tow long range? Did the ford lightning and Rivian not already confirm that EVs suck for towing?
Not specifically related, but blown away that the guy is flooring his CT while he and his kids are unbuckled.
Why would you ever need to tow a boat with a cyber truck. I mean, it can function as a boat itself, right?
No duh. Its obvious to anyone whos towed anything with a gas truck that a decent sized load can cut your range in half pretty easily.
and the aerodynamics of said load are absolutely key i got 7 mpg in a 02 4.3l blazer towing a basic enclosed 5x9 uhaul trailer. had a damn headwind and bogged down to 45 in 3rd gear on the interstate a few times.
Yeah but it could tow a Porsche in a fake ¼ mile drag strip, so they could make a viral video. Towing a boat for hours is boring. Elon doesn’t care about boring things, only exciting things.
There was a woman on YouTube that had a f150 lightning and she was trying to tow a 28 foot airstream camper. Took her 3-4 days to cross Nebraska. The last 30 miles the lightning was up on a flatbed. She kept boasting that it would go anywhere a gas or diesel pickup would go. I don’t see her on YouTube anymore.
Wow.... My old ass pathfinder that's worth about $3k on a good day can tow more farther...
A fun exercise. It has a 120kwh battery pack and averaged 120 (90-150) miles per charge . At a relatively cheap 45 cents a kwH to recharge at an EV charging station, that's $54... to drive only 120 miles. That's 45 cents a mile. Let's compare to a Raptor towing a 4,000 lb boat (just like the example). Over 400 miles, a big-daddy Raptor got 13 mpg (on expensive premium). At $4.75 a gallon, that's 36.5 cents per mile. So the Cybertruck costs about 18% more in energy to haul things than a Raptor once you're outside of your home charging range... And your stopping to refuel twice as often, and many times as long.
Yeah. That’s part of the EV problem right now. I own a Lightning. I drive 40 miles round trip daily to work. I charge at $0.13 / kWh. It’s fantastic for my use case. If you’re going to be long distance traveling or hauling, buy an ICE truck until the EV infrastructure catches up. This is common knowledge to anyone who gives 5 minutes of research into EVs and it’s pretty annoying these clickbait articles get so much attention.
He bought it to tow his model 3
It’s as practical as any other 5th or 6th car. Every Cyber Truck owner I know has other cars.
Pieces won't stay on, range is 1/3 what is claimed, windshield wiper won't wipe, brakes don't work at times, can't reliably go through a car wash, and you'll cut yourself deep enough to need stitches while you're cleaning off the fingerprints. But you can put on a light show and make the car growl as you walk away. Sounds like they had their priorities straight.
How about rivian truck? Or Ford lightning? This is just the nature of EVs. But you gotta get Tesla and Elon in there or it won't get the views/clicks/up votes.
With ICE, you can carry fuel for emergencies or extended range.
Having a maximum towing capacity on any EV truck is like trying to buy fat-free bacon. It is absolutely worthless.
Electric trucks in general.
A good size pickup truck that’s useless for towing. Very good Mr Musk!
I can get 100mi of range on a single tank in my mustang too. He needs to slow the fuck down under 80 (it was in the video).
This truck would do exactly what I would want to do with a truck - drive myself around emissions free on my commute, take my family on camping trips, and go get stuff from Home Depot and the local rock/lanscaping yard. It is just too expensive when I could go out and get a used Lightning Lariat in the low $50s, which I still think is a bit much for me. Towing is going to be a gas vehicle’s domain for a while until pull-through charging stations and sub 15-minute charge sessions every couple hours are easily achievable.
Imo even with that EVs still wont work. If you get to a location and the charger is broken you're fucked. No one is going to be able to come charge you up. Now you yourself need to be towed.
“If you get to a location and a charger is broke…” This was the case for gas vehicles too as fueling infrastructure was built out; it is not a phenomenon unique to EVs. Every vehicle in the world is reliant on a working infrastructure. If you think that EV infrastructure is impossible to build out in the next 10-20 years, all you need to do is look to Europe. It is very easy to get around with an EV there. They are only a few years ahead of us. The cool thing about EVs is that I can make my own fuel with a few solar panels and an inverter. I cannot make my own fuel. I am wholly reliant on someone else making fuel and then selling it to me.
I saw a rivian with a double axle trailer parked at the launch the other day, first time ever seeing one at the ramp. Wish I could ask the owner his real world experience
“The Tesla Cybertruck suffers from major range issues when towing heavy items.” That’s less the issue than the aerodynamics.
Yep... We've got a YouTuber here who has one, as well as an H1 Hummer that he converted to be an electric vehicle. As a test, he trailered the Hummer and towed it. The results were: 80 miles of range No pull through charging, so he had to disconnect the trailer every 80 miles, charge, the reconnect. Lather, rinse, repeat. Charging took an hour and a half
What was the average speed?
Video in question https://youtu.be/beWYECKSRgE?si=Q88eM44tA_jfok2N
You don't use it as a truck. Just like you don't use a G-wagon as an off roader.
Except a G-Wagen is extremely capable for off road and towing.
how does someone have that much money while being incredibly fucking stupid?
"The significant loss in range while towing, along with the time required to top up the battery, makes the Cybertruck incredibly impractical for any kind of towing purpose, especially over long distances." Gee whiz... who'd have ever thunk it.
What you need to remember here is when you buy the first generation of anything, it’s always not going to be perfect. The very first cars suffered from flat tires just from driving on them, you used to have to fill tires almost daily
Absolutely everyone with a brain told you that before. You wouldn’t listen.
This "journalist" is known for regurgitating the obvious
Didn’t we see this with the testing the F-150 Lightning? I mean it’s got to be lighter than the Cybertruck and it still was struggling for a long distance haul.
I would've thought a truck EV would have more room to have more batteries, and thus more range and capacity. Imagine an F150 with only 228 miles of range.
They *do* but you quickly start running into diminishing returns as you increase battery size. Batteries are heavy. Trucks are heavy to begin with. A bigger battery pack weighs more, which hurts overall efficiency as you add weight and cuts payload/towing capacity so then you have to beef up the frame and axles to get back some of the GVWR and GCVW (this is supposed to be a truck, after all), which hurts efficiency some more, which means you need an even bigger battery pack and so on and so and etc and such. GM went nuts stuffing enormous battery packs into the Hummer & Silverado EV and the range is impressive (and the price eye-popping) but the vehicles weigh an absurd amount (even compared to the Cybertruck and Lightning, like, literally a ton to ton and a half more) and their efficiency ends up being not very good meaning they end up costing quite a bit to charge up (and take longer at the same rate) if you’re charging at public sites and paying retail rates. There’s going to need to be some more breakthroughs on battery weight/density before we see real improvements in the range of electric pickup trucks, especially for towing over a distance. Right now, an EV pickup truck is a compromise. For some people, the compromises work out favorably for their use case, for others, not so much.
It needs to be tested driving 15 mph, which would be somewhat ideal for wind friction. Curious to see the results. Probably not a good look for Tesla. 😂
That is a known issue for all electric trucks. I don’t see how it’s news-worthy
Nobody logically thinks the cyber truck is a serious attempt at a truck, especially the person attempting to tow a boat with it.
Craig (Flying Wheels) knew that when he made before he made this video. He's working really hard to transition his channel's content. Had to. He has a Ram I think and I'm sure he knows towing with it decreases the range. I was just happy that he left it with his Dad and let him tow the boat back down to his house later. lol
But Jason Cammisa said the cybertruck was truck 2.0.
For those that don’t own a gas truck and never towed. The results are not surprising and you get the same results in a gas truck. It’s why as part of the tow package you get. Large gas tank; I’m talking 50gallons. Most truck come with a 35gallon tank. A truck getting 4-8 mpg while towing is standard. If the guy wanted to tow he needed to get the extra battery. It’s why most guys seriously towing regularly just go for the diesel model.
"this door won't close, but it also won't open" lol (referring to charger flap)
I think that the market for the CyberTruck is the people that by F150s and then just haul yard debris to the dump or pick up a bag or two of mulch at the Home Depot. Maybe toss the bike into the bed and take it to a trail to ride for a bit. Nothing much more than that. Serious haulers by other things like Ram 1500s or 2500 dually with a Cunnings - stuff like that.
I still can’t believe a company that makes such a beautiful car can make this.
ALL electric vehicles are impractical over long distances. They only make sense in dense urban environments where 100% of the trips use less than 50% of the battery. This is city politics writing automotive policy for the rest of the country again.
No kidding… it doesn’t take a genius to figure this out… SMH 🤦🏻♂️
I use our EV SUV to tow a utility trailer and a boat trailer and it’s the same results. Poor mileage for every EV that tows. It’s expected and no surprises contrary to what the OP is trying to imply with the exceptionally biased article here. I honestly don’t know which person is dumber, the OP or anyone that would buy a cyber truck thinking it’s going to get great mileage while towing literally anything.
It's impractical just looking at that ugly thing!!