While I do not feed this diet, this is an unfortunate example of why these types of boutique diets are so harmful. Raw food is the biggest fad right now because of clever marketing tactics. These companies take advantage of people wanting to do the best for their pets.

Unfortunately there are also way too many examples of how kibble is harmful and even deadly to cats. 😔

Like what?

Kidney disease and urinary blockages are two of the biggest killers out there and both have been repeatedly linked to dry food.

They are also linked to stress and sex. Kibble does not kill; there are many other factors that increase risk in these diseases. For example, there are prescription dry diets formulated to help with kidney or urinary issues. Cats that are fed wet only diets can still have these diseases.

As someone who lost one cat to kidney disease and recently struggled with another with urinary issues, I will personally never feed kibble again. It is just not worth the risk. These stories about raw feeding are truly heartbreaking. But thankfully they are extremely rare and nothing compared to the posts out there of cats suffering from crystals and ckd, which, yes, arent only caused by kibble but it is a huge contributing factor in many cases.

And I hope you never face those issues again. But you do have to understand that kibble isn’t the issue and it’s something that can still happen, even if you avoid it. It’s not even the biggest risk factor. The issues with not raw food is not rare either.

Feeding kibble is a risk and not one I am willing to take simply for the sake of convenience.

Same hope one day it will be removed from shelves too many tin foil hat people believe it's amazing. When you see a cat die in your arms and knowing you could of fed better so sad. But vets and food companies don't care if your pet dies, you get another and feed them the same - more money for them

Kibble does kill, it cause kidney disease, mouth cancer, liver cancer and the list goes on and on. Prescription diets are full of carbs and not needs. Kibble causes hard food sludge in a male cats bladder and urethra leading to PU surgery and stones. Cats fed a wet or raw food diet will have less of a chance of having issues

Absolutely incorrect. Kibble does not kill animals. It does not cause kidney disease (it is a risk factor; not every cat that eats kibble will develop kidney disease). No diet causes cancer; that is caused by the environment and genetics. Carbs are not bad. Stop spreading harmful misinformation.

I think it’s very reasonable to be cautious of feeding kibble. If you only want to feed your cats this sort of dry food, that’s fine. But I think you need to respect or at least try to understand that many owners don’t see this as a good alternative. Just like many owners don’t see raw as a good alternative. Cat food is not all black and white and there are many shades of grey. But at least try to respect that some owners have legitimate concerns about feeding this sort of dry food to their pets, often from real-life experience. My most recent cat developed crystals at just 7 months of age from a kibble diet. I switched to all wet and eliminated all kibble and within a few months he was crystal free. That’s all the proof I need that kibble is not right path.

I’m not going to respect someone that says kibble kills cats, because that’s not true. However, it’s perfectly okay for people to choose to feed wet food only. Everyone should also understand that dry food is a risk factor, but not the only one and certainly not the biggest risk. There is no reason to demonize dry food. Will every cat breed the same diet? No, as they are all individuals. But cat food is pretty black and white in regards to safety measures and research.

Clearly you didn't take statistics and probability. You need to get better grades

Obviously my college stats class has so much to do with cat nutrition.

It's third year Bachelor of science and all of DVM - lack o f papers published. Solid research about the damages of kibble and it being published ,- put you won't have access to it cause you aren't a vet. Why do you think science is moving to raw because of data published but you need credentials to read it but clearly you don't. What papers have you had published?

The risk factor here is chronic dehydration, not kibble itself. We've known for a while that cats are notoriously bad at keeping themselves hydrated and need help getting water in. It's rare that people are recommended EXCLUSIVELY feeding kibble. Canned food is best, and if kibble is fed, an easy way to avoid dehydration is to hydrate the kibble when feeding. Urinary blockages are linked to pretty much everything, so that's not a great example. Raw food runs you the risk of food borne illness and bacteria that can be avoided (like the bacterium in OPs post). Raw feeding also gets you into trouble because of how big of a fad it is. Now you have owners who just go pick up some raw meat and think that that's sufficient, when you're completely ignoring the other nutritional needs of the cat that would need to be fulfilled with supplements. Pet food is ALWAYS going to be controversial. There's ALWAYS going to be pros and cons. Just like humans nutrition is controversial. But, there are scientific and medical reasons that raw food isn't recommended. The current recommendation is also not exclusively kibble.

I agree with you. But I think way too many owners give little thought to feeding kibble and take no precautions, as there are proven scientific and medical risks to feeding this sort of food. Just like there are for feeding raw, which I have never recommended feeding in my posts in this thread. Yes, urinary blockages and kidney disease have many causes, but kibble, and as a result dehydration, is one of the main culprits. Let’s not forget that kibble also started as a “fad” and as a convenience food. Of all the health issues I see posted about, urinary issues are the most numerous, and most of the time these are all from cats fed kibble and as a result chronically dehydrated.

Kibble is formulated to be a complete, well-balanced diet according to vets, maybe minus some useful moisture. Raw food makes someone generally unqualified, you, do all that work, and harbors the danger of bacteria harmful to furry friends and humans alike.

That is not true unless YOU are the making the raw food. A reputable commercial raw food company hires board certified animal nutritionists to make the food. Some companies have been making this food for decades.

I don’t personally feed this, but oddly enough I just saw a tiktok about someone feeding raw patties and they’re dog developed acute polyradiculoneuritis. It caused paralysis in their dog and I’m unsure if their dog made it. I know it’s not the same as what you’re baby had, but wanted to provide any info I could. It does seem like many pets are beginning to become sick off of some of these raw food brands. I’m so so sorry for your loss. I can tell that your baby Luna was very loved.

Raw chicken and campylobacter have been implicated in the pathogenesis of acute canine polyradiculoneuritis. One major reason not to feed raw meat

Cats and dogs have stomach acid over 10,000 more powerful than humans. It's meant to break down raw meat - do you think they start a fire and cook a rabbit while hunting. Been feeding raw over 25 years not once .

No they don't, 10000x would be 4 pH units which is entirely untrue. Cats and dogs still get campylobacteriosis even if they have slightly more acidic gastric secretions. Campylobacter is a big risk factor for acute canine polyradiculoneuritis and the equivalent condition, guillain-barre syndrome, in people as well.

Poor you my late husband was a well known vet and yes higher stomach acid. My son is a vet now and daughter just got into her school. So

Oh that must mean that you get vet training by osmosis right? Are they teaching you these things? You should have them do a bit more studying because their knowledge isnt up to snuff.

Do you think wild animals don’t get sick from parasites and bacteria? Do you think wild animals have longer lifespans than their domesticated counterparts?

Yes but they have better stomach acid than humans. In 25 years of vet practice with my late husband who was a vet, not one with any parasites in cats. Humans pick up stomach issues like Norwalk far easier than cats and dogs. Humans stomach lining is horrible

Sure lady, your anecdotal evidence from your “husband’s vet practice” is super convincing. 🙄 I’m an astronaut. I’ll listen to the recommendations by the majority of vets which caution feeding raw. If we did everything “natural” in terms of the evolution of our pets they wouldn’t go to the vet, live indoors, take antibiotics or have any type training. I’m confident in my choices, thanks. Edit to add: it probably would have been beneficial to your Reddit soap box if your husband taught you the difference between a parasite and virus.

Thank for this information. Do you remember the account name or what the food brand was?

No problem! The account I saw it on was “Creature Repair Expert” and this account is a veterinarian who stitched the person having the problem and goes on to explain it. I bet you can find the person who has it from that video. I hope this helps and good luck!

I did some digging and I found who made the original video! It’s @/kumalashstudio and she talks about her experience feeding raw to her dogs.

So tik tok a source of information just like reddit

OP asked for any information and I was trying to be helpful. I thought it was odd I saw another issue just pop up with it. I made no claims other than what I saw and OP asked to check it out so I obliged.

What makes you believe it was from the food? Edit. https://www.uoguelph.ca/ahl/disseminated-mycobacteriosis-siberian-cat-mycobacterium-avium-subsp-hominissuis this was from a while back, but it was also from rabbit.

Her intestinal lymph nodes were the first ones enlarged, which my vet said means it is likely something she ingested. Her lungs were never affected. If it came from contact in the environment, usually that is manifested through skin lesions or lumps and bumps on the skin. The FDA vet asked me tons of questions trying to see if there was another way she could have gotten it and came to the conclusion that the most likely scenario in her case is her food.

A benefit of living in the states is that the fda has authority. Canada it is the wild West. We couldn't get any information when we had concerns as it isn't considered "food" or regulated. It's all up to companies and if they want to, or provide information. I did read that Stella's do hpp treatment on their food. I did read mixed studies on how effective it can be to reduce pathogens (and honestly how often do these companies actually follow their own policies?). Hopefully this information you have provided and the work being done will be of use.

Thank you. Yes, it is one of the reasons I used their food. And it was also the only one that didn’t also use salmon oil, which she was also sensitive to. Mycobacterium is pretty hard to kill, so I don’t think the HPP treatments would prevent it if it did in fact come from her food.

Canada is not the wild west - I of Guelph is the number one vet school and we care better for our animals than the USA. The amount of junk pet food out there is horrible - vets paid off by the big pharma and pet food companies. More raw places here than the USA. I shop locally and avoid the USA product's if I can

Who enforces pet food in Canada? What authority do they have? Who tests products to make sure they are safe? Who test products to make sure they meet what their label says? Who issues recalls? Who inspects facilities? Health Canada only investigates when human health is a concern. In Canada, pet food products aren't subject to the same regulations and testing as food intended for humans. Pet food and treats can carry germs, including Salmonella and E. coli bacteria, which can make people and pets sick. https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/food-safety/pet-food-treats.html **The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) inspects pet food facilities regularly to ensure they meet regulatory and export requirements.** Since most Canadian companies also export to the US, they have to meet the regulations and oversight of the Food and Drug Administration and United States Department of Agriculture in the US.  Because Canadian pet food is also sold around the world to other countries that have strict regulations for animal health and food safety, you can be assured that Canadian pet food is safe. https://pfac.com/learn-about-pet-food/#learn_tabs|2 Pet food is not a comprehensively regulated commodity in Canada compared to food for human consumption or livestock feeds. https://inspection.canada.ca/en/animal-health/terrestrial-animals/exports/pet-food/pet-food-treats-and-chews https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-1.68/page-2.html#h-44505 Everything relating to this is only for human health and safety. Yes it does mention labeling and having it meet what is put on it. Orders for Recalls and Taking Measures Marginal note:Recall 31 (1) If the Minister believes on reasonable grounds that a consumer product is a **danger to human health or safety**, he or she may order a person who manufactures, imports or sells the product for commercial purposes to recall it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6190176/ https://competition-bureau.canada.ca/how-we-foster-competition/education-and-outreach/publications/guide-labelling-and-advertising-pet-foods#s1 Is pet food regulated in Canada? Presently, there is no omnibus regulation for pet food in Canada. However, there are a number of Acts that impact the production and sale of pet food, the importation of pet food ingredients, and the exportation of pet food. You will learn more about the requirements of these Acts in this Guide. On rare occasions, something may go wrong in the manufacturing process and it becomes necessary for a company to make a voluntary recall of their product from the marketplace. Generally, there is no central repository for pet food recall notices.* The onus is on the company to make the recall as widely known as possible, including through media and social media; good record keeping and retailer relationships, to name a few. The goal is to retrieve the affected product as quickly as possible before it can harm any pets or people. Retrieving product from the marketplace is an extremely expensive and time consuming process. Responsible companies have the ability to trace where their products are sold, and they practice “mock” recalls, to make sure that they could effectively remove potentially dangerous products from shelves if a problem has occurred. If a problem is identified, but a company cannot identify which products would be impacted, then it is possible that ALL product would have to be removed from the marketplace While there is no Canadian regulation (other than the Health of Animals Act) that speaks to ingredients and product formulations, no reputable company would produce pet food without expertise in dog and cat nutritional requirements, having a properly formulated diet and a quality assurance program for ingredients. The Health of Animals Act stipulates that specified risk materials (SRMs) of bovine animals may not be fed to pets. This means that the SRMs must be removed from any bovine ingredients used in pet food production. SRM are defined as: The skull, brain, trigeminal ganglia (nerves attached to the brain), eyes, tonsils, spinal cord and dorsal root ganglia (nerves attached to the spinal cord) of cattle aged 30 months or older; and the distal ileum (portion of the small intestine) of cattle of all ages. It is our recommendation that anyone wishing to make pet food consult the AAFCO Official Publication. It is not law in Canada, but it provides a very good insight into safe ingredients. Furthermore, the Guideline for the Labelling and Advertising of Pet Food (Industry Canada) references ingredient statements and guaranteed analysis from AAFCO. I could go on...

No that's AI you didn't write that chat gpt did and their app said they did. Good one . Canada is living above a meth lab called the USA for everything it's why we never recommend any meat, milk etc from the usa. I need my sleep working tomorrow at my son's veterinary clinic.

Are you serious? Can you refute any of what is stated? I don't use chat gp or ai. The fact that knowing how to search for information automatically is seen as somthing not done by a human is ridiculous.

To clarify, you mean  raw raw, like cold raw meat, right? You're not talking about the freeze dried raw, correct?

Freeze dried harbors the same risk.

I was asking so I could know whether to chime in with similar circumstances. I've never fed true raw so sounds like I am not a good corroborater. 

Freeze dried raw carries the same risks, generally speaking, so knowing that it occurred across multiple types/batches would actually help reinforce the case if you had the same thing happen.

It does not - you clearly need to take more science classes and get better grades

Honey, it’s my science classes that inform me about the risk of raw foods and the various pathogens it spreads.

Since you have been rejected a few times by vet schools for low GPA which means you clearly didn't learn properly. Son and husband honors DVM and BSC.

Yes, my “low” GPA due to A’s and B’s. Since you know so much about vet school, you should understand how competitive it is and how gpa makes up a small part of admissions.

Probably not, As and Bs son got into his first choice and even his second choice. Means they didn't think you would make a good vet and comprehended animal science

You’re so out of touch with reality, it’s sad.

No you lack common sense and not educated from a reputable DVM school. I have my law degree so I am more educated than you

You’re not a DVM, nor do you have an education in animal nutrition. I have a BS in biology and am working on my masters. I have taken many hours of CE for animal nutrition, and yet I still rely on the information that actual professionals provide. If you were more educated, you would pursue the same, along with better grammar.

We fed both. But mostly frozen raw

I use the freeze dried rabbit dinner morsels as a treat for my cat and have been doing so for about 7 months. He gets 4 morsels per “feed” about 3 times a week… we haven’t had any issues (yet). I’m so sorry you and your baby went through this. With your other cat being fine, maybe it was simply that Luna couldn’t handle a certain ingredient. Is it at all possible the food is unrelated? Or did the vet determine it was in fact her diet? Definitely going to keep an eye out on my boy either way. Thank you for sharing this. I hope your heart heals quickly<3

I am so glad to hear that your baby is doing well. She succumbed to this because she has immune issues. My other cat is healthy and has a healthy immune system. She had intense food allergies since she was a kitten. The FDA vet thinks that the food is the most likely culprit in our case. We sent off the food I still had, but the problem is the food that likely caused this was given in February or March and is long gone.

So sorry for cat. That’s heartbreaking.

I have a big bag of rabbit dinner morsel and some treats from Stella & Chewy cause my vet recommended it. But I stopped using them after I read on their website that "they don't believe in feeding trials." Ditched the vet that recommended it too..

give cornucopia a try. my condolences to you