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If the health considerations alone were enough to keep people from being obese they would not be obese. I myself lost 90 pounds because I was tired of being mocked and of being considered unattractive, health had nothing to do with it. Bullying works!
It's great that it works for you, and I'm sure that you're not the only one, but bullying and shaming also frequently lead to eating disorders that often have very poor health outcomes. A large step for many people in their weight loss journey is confronting all of the shame they have around eating, and resolving their toxic relationship with food.
It seems rather unlikely that eating disorders are 'frequent' in people who very occasionally get 'fat shamed' by some random asshole on the street.
I'm 100% sure that kind of asshole harassment does happen, I was obese at a point in my life many years ago. I know it happens.
It simply does not follow that is a large trigger for anyone to become mentally ill with an eating disorder.
That's just not how it works for average people. More likely they have a family unit that mocked them endlessly as a child, a spouse that degrades them constantly, or they already have a mental problem in the first place.
It's obviously still an asshole thing to do, but it doesn't mean some random bullying and some random assholes on the streets are making people go bulemic or anorexic or 'eating their feelings'.
If you look into the majority of people who are wildly obese, and have terrible eating disorders where they eat 20k calories a day. A *massive* factor for those people is being raped, or molested in adolescence. Another massive factor is a home life where parents frequently shame their own child for being overweight.
This whole "bullying" thing is almost no where on the list of significant factors.
I guess I personally classify family/spouse degradation and mocking as a part of bullying. I do agree that a one-off interaction with a mean stranger on the internet isn't going to cause an eating disorder, but fat-shaming is hardly a one-off incident for most overweight people.
Are you really that uninformed??? Eating disorders are much more dangerous than obesity alone, except maybe for the most extreme cases, and some eating disorders actually make you GAIN weight. Binge eating disorder often starts with dieting and causes weight gain and both bulimia and anorexia have worse health outcomes than obesity.
Apart from that the more likely outcome of being bullied is not going out, especially not in places like gyms where the bully type people hang out and spend more time sedentary at home. Depression is another common outcome that does not help with being more active or losing weight. But sure, some extremely ignorant people will continue to think you can bully people into losing weight.
you can bully people into losing weight, it happens a lot. i seriously doubt there is a significant portion of the population that would eat more after being bullied for being obease. if they do, it isn't the bullies fault. such a person is rare and extreamly defective.
as for being bullied at the gym or anywhere a person is trying to loose weight or while trying to improve health, that i would never think to be a good thing.
Because emotional eating and stress is a big factor in people becoming obese. The bullying and weight stigma in society makes this much more difficult for the fat person to overcome their emotional eating. I imagine e it's really difficult to lose weight when you can't respect your body.
this is untrue when it comes to bullying for being fat. that is like saying being burned causes people to become fearful and traumatized that will in turn result in irrational behavior where people seek out fire to burn themselves more. insofar as it is true, it isn't the fault of the bully.
As a counter example, I lost over 50kg (whatever that is in pounds) by eating healthy and exercising, and I haven't been mocked or bullied since I was in my teens, nearly 20 years ago. I got healthy because I was tired of being uncomfortable in my own body. So I guess both our anecdotes cancel each other out.
It's amazing that you, a stranger on the internet, know me better than I know myself.
Being physically exhausted from walking to pick my nephew up from preschool and not having the energy to to play with him when he runs around the playground for example leads to mental discomfort, feeling like I can't be active in his life because of my physical form. Avoiding physical activity because I don't want to be drenched in sweat when going about my day, not because of any social stigma but because it feels like shit.
If social pressure had worked to make me lose weight I'd have lost weight decades ago. Instead I drank and did drugs, ate like shit and sat on my ass in front of the computer because it was easier than getting in shape.
Social pressure might work for some people but all research points to them being in the minority.
> Bullying works!
Yeaaah, and there is infinite number of another people who are in spiral of depression of overeating because they are bullied :)
Same logic, if would bullying works, there would not be obese people.
Jeez OP, I always forget how crazy fatphobic Reddit is. I've had a similar experience. Most obese people I've met and gotten to know have gone to *heartbreaking* efforts to lose weight. Bariatric surgery, anorexia to the point of needing inpatient care... still overweight. For some people it seems like semaglutide is the only reliable solution, and that's expensive as hell.
It's nuts to me how many people have such low capacity for empathy as to think obese people are unaware of their situation.
Calories in < calories out = weight loss is hard fact. There exist medical conditions that influence the numbers but you say most people you know? Do they all have a disorder?
If I feel fine but a bit peckish when running a calorie deficit, and someone else is physically suffering, then you're speaking a useless platitude. Expecting someone to constantly starve themselves is easy to do when you're the type to forget to eat. This is triply true when they're an eating disorder survivor, because their metabolisms are permanently altered.
The deficit is far too extreme if they’re suffering anything other than just being hungry. If you are calling just being hungry “suffering” then lol, and also that tapers off as you lose, your metabolism adjusts and your baseline calorie requirements dip. Small deficits over long periods is the way
You simply don't know what you're talking about here. You're taking your experience and applying it to everyone. Try being less condescending, if it was as simple and easy as you think it is, there wouldn't be the extreme and steadily rising obesity rates we're seeing.
I never once said it’s easy, I know how difficult it is. It however *is* incredibly simple. Eat fewer calories than your current personal baseline expenditure and you WILL lose weight. I’m not a scientist or statistician I don’t know the truth behind the obesity epidemic. Had to hazard a guess? calorically dense food is far more accessiblenow compared to the past, had a bag of chocolate pretzels for a dollar something and nearly choked to death when I read the nutrition facts. + lifestyles are far, far, far more sedentary.
Nothing works in everyone's case.
But there's a strong argument to be made that a good number of people care more about the opinions of others than they do about their own health. Peer and societal pressure is a thing.
Well in my experience being obese was pretty great while I was around people who were also obese or didn’t care, food is awesome. It was when I moved to an urban area that was generally much fitter that I was, passively or very rudely, clued in over a few months that being a fatass is not acceptable outside that bubble.
Unfortunately means there are only two sufficient motivations to not be obese: health/longevity and social pressure. If someone is comically rotund enough to be attracting random comments then clearly they value eating how they like over being healthy. Only leaves the social aspect, relentless bullying from randoms and concern from friends.
Ultimately, this is why I decided to lose all my weight too. I realized that society was not going to change for me, and even if society did change for me, it would make me feel worse if they acquiesced to my bad habits and made me feel like they were okay. I knew deep down that they weren't.
> I believe this is due to a lack of theory of mind and a sense of main character syndrome
Believing that strangers have “main character syndrome” and have some mental deficiency is far, far more presumptuous than calling someone fat.
Agreed. And on top of this, there have been a lot of studies that show for any unhealthy addiction (smoking, hard drugs, eating) shame is actually a very influential tool in curbing those behaviors. It might not be nice to hear, but it probably helps more people than you think.
And if you go back to "they already know they're extremely unhealthy", who was the first person to tell them all of the negative side effects? Especially if they don't have access to Healthcare. Someone that told them unsolicited.
Where are you sourcing these studies? Every single thing I found states the *complete opposite:*
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6565398/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CYou%20actually%20experience%20a%20form,were%20thin%20to%20begin%20with.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11013468/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32127716/
https://www.athenacare.health/stop-fat-shaming-its-harmful-and-it-doesnt-work/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/11/fat-shaming-lose-weight-study
https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2017/january/fat-shaming-linked-to-greater-health-risks
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-49714697
Let’s be honest though. The OP specifically calls out unprompted comments about weight on unrelated videos/photos that just feature a fat person.
None of that is helpful or equal to a serious medical intervention. It’s bullying.
I don’t call other people fat. I don’t tell them what to eat or how to live. I literally don’t notice that someone is fat unless they’re having trouble with a chair or something. My husband recently noticed that it takes me like 12 times of meeting someone to see that.
Online, I still don’t call other people fat. And I think it’s usually rude. But it makes sense that people feel like they aren’t allowed to say it in real life, but they are concerned. It’s obvious that fat people know they are fat, but I think people who do say so have received a verbal kick in the ass that helped them (aka “you don’t have to let him treat you like that,” “therapy isn’t a shameful thing,” “your addiction is affecting your work,” etc.) So they are trying to be helpful. That doesn’t excuse it, but it’s not a failure of mind.
And of course there are always trolls who want to upset people, and that’s different.
I would argue that have a strong sense of the theory of mind. While I don't think that telling people they are living an unhealthy is helpful, the reason why people do it is because they recognize the power of messaging in their own lives. If they themselves find outside messaging to be swaying, it's an easy extrapolation to other minds.
Poor vernacular? It's literally the whole point of the view. It's the title of the view.
Having a deficiency in theory of mind is generally defined as a disorder, present in people with autism, schizophrenia, depressive states, and social anxiety disorder, among other diagnosable conditions. Being an asshole is none of these things. Stop using real psychological terms to call people an asshole in "creative" ways.
You are just appropriating something that is a symptom of disorders that people suffer through and turning into an insult. Fuck you for that.
Theory of mind is literaly judging other people, inferring intent, etc. You are confusing Theory of mind with empathy and sympathy. They are not the same thing. Theory of mind doesn't mean "treat others with kindness."
Theory of mind is recognizing that others beliefs intentions, thoughts, desires, etc are different than their own. It doesn't mean that I have to stay silent about it. I tried to get you to look it up, but you refused, and lied about understanding it.
Try not to use phrases and words you don't understand, you won't look so stupid in the future.
Your last sentence is embarrassing. You are lashing out because you don't know what theory of mind means. Your arguments should be strong enough without resorting to attacks.
Your definition of theory of mind is incorrect, and as a result, it makes it incredibly ironic that you called OP stupid. OP never once said that theory of mind means treat people with kindness, that is your own reading comprehension failing you.
Theory of mind is not "literally judging other people". It's a psychological term for having the cognitive ability to understand that other people have their own cognitive processes and separate minds and intentions from our own, even if we are or are not aware of those. I believe someone who sees an obese person and goes "they don't know it's bad for them, so therefore i should tell them" lacks severely in theory of mind as they are unable to project themselves into the mind of another and speculate on how that individual is feeling and thinking. I did understand the term, hence why I used it. Your ability to come to conclusions is faulty as hell and you only come off as bitter with your "try not to use phrases and words you dont udnerstand" just because I wasn't going to give you a free lecture on a widely known psychological term. All I said was "google it" and you immediatley turned into this guy: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-r\_ICWJBudU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-r_ICWJBudU)
I won't respond anymore to you, you're obviously just trying to get a ruse out of me by being annoying intentionally.
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irs because we try and keep others in something at least adjacent to reality, because once people start moving too much away from reality, and creating imaginary reference systems they base their lives on, we can’t meet them in this reality because we do not have a way of knowing it. reality is based on cause and effect and this is the only true common ground we can inhabit as a large social group. small social groups can delve into a reality of their own (lets say steampunk lovers) for purposes of fun, but the fabric of this great big social group we call society requires smtg we can all reference to.
it is unjustified for a random unknown person to walk up to any other random person and say just about anything at all.
‘unprompted’ doesnt mean ‘walk up to a random person’. if that is how you mean it, yes.
if I had an obese cousin, me telling him without prompt that he is obese is a whole different thing.
But people don’t even always universally agree on cause and effect. And you can have legitimate differences about that. For example, there are literally hundreds of perspectives on what causes poverty, and on what other social problems are caused by poverty.
but we are mostly all on the same page that volcanoes dont cause poverty?
thats what I mean by ‘common reality’. we can disagree up to a point but once you leave reality sufficiently, we are not in the same room anymore.
one person thinking that poverty is caused by capitalism and another one thinking it is caused by individual factors - they still sit in the same room and can discuss. if a third person were to join with their views that poverty is caused by volcanoes, that would be a whole different thing.
CMV: people that run around just randomly telling fat people they are unhealthy without any instigation don't exist. No one is doing that, people point out that being morbidly obese is unhealthy pretty much only in the context of some moralizing idiot on the other side saying that being a land whale is perfectly healthy and beautiful and to disagree is fatphobic
Oh, I can easily do that. I'm morbidly obese. I also run, swim and cycle. All things that expose you to the public in not the most flattering ways. I cannot count the amount of times I had people shouting at me about being fat, particularly when I'm out running.
I will concede that this does seem cultural, though. I'm from Germany, and while I was living there it got so bad that I completely stopped exercising. I simply could not handle the shame and humiliation. When I cautiously started again after moving to Ireland, I was met with nothing but encouragement and positive comments.
I think your view in part comes from it being more of an issue for the person told than the one doing the telling.
Nobody thinks they're being a superhero when they look at someone smoking a cigarette and say "hey, those are bad for you" they're just trying to give the smoker a little nudge towards a healthier lifestyle. They dont expect a moral ephipney of this person going "oh my god i had no idea!" but it does help to hear it sometimes. When we dont get feedback we tend to justify our behaviors enough to ourselves that we continue them indefinitely.
Food is extra tricky because so often diets can fail, or be a fad, or someone will hit their target weight and then bounce back. I dont think there's anything inherently self important about saying something about how it's unhealthy to be overweight, but it does become more about the other person than the one carrying the extra weight when the person starts to make comments every time you see them, or is looking for excuses to tell you about your weight. Just a passing comment could really be someone trying to be helpful. Continued judgement after that comment has been made is immature...
but as for the unpromped initial comment? It's because having a healthy relationship with food really can be so hard, and often times a "dieting" mindset sets you up for failure by focusing you on what foods you cant eat rather than finding things you like that are good for you, and then when you hit your target weight and start to feel "done" or like you can take a little break the weight starts to pile on. People who know that might feel motivated to give you a heads up incase you'd been "finished" with a diet and stopped keeping track of what you're eating for a little too long.
peer pressure works extremely well. why else do you think so many are peer pressured into doing bad things even tho they know the risks?? maybe others are trying to peer pressure the fat person to lose weight?i myself am very fat and started my journey to lose body fat MOSTLY cuz of peer pressure.
people hate change especially when the change is related to the truth
I have a friend who is a physiotherapist, and when walking together she will often stop people who are out on a morning jog or whatever and correct their posture, give them advice. She is always noticing how people move, where they may be lacking in muscles causing them to have a certain step or something like that.
I don't think there's an issue with this, and people she stops basically always take it positively, it's free advice.
I think it can be similar for encouraging or highlighting to people that they can work on themselves in any area. With obesity a lot of it is mental, a relationship with food/self.
Having encouragement even randomly and anonymously online might set them on a better path.
> Having encouragement even randomly and anonymously online might set them on a better path.
I think most fat folks know they're fat.
I'm a bit chubby myself. I'm well aware of it. Strangers stopping me on the street to tell me isn't going to be even remotely helpful
Maybe. And maybe for someone else it may be different.
Sometimes people accept the way things are without realising they can change.
Stopping someone to tell them they're fat is pointless. Telling someone some diet or exercise tips can go a long way.
> Maybe. And maybe for someone else it may be different.
I'm pretty confident that the vast majority of people who are overweight know they are overweight.
Your friend the physio giving people posture advice is an expert helping someone who likely could benefit from help.
Telling someone they are fat is just being mean
>Who is out there calling people fat?
People who stop strangers in the street and critique their "lifestyle" based on nothing more than their physical appearance
>Giving lifestyle advice isn't an insult.
Sure it is. When it's a commentary on who the person is it is often an insult. See also "You'd be so much prettier if you smiled"
> I don't think there's an issue with this, and people she stops basically always take it positively, it's free advice.
You don't see a problem with a health professional providing unsolicited health-related advice to strangers when she is not privy to their entire health history?
I work with physiotherapists at a gym and they literally would never do that. When I got hired I had a whole month of feeling so friggin uncomfortable with sitting in the gym sometimes because the guys here are notoriously shitty with form. But like I was told, if they don't ask for advice, you don't have any idea what specific injury or specific body quirk that they might be adapting for, you don't know what you don't know, keep your opinions to yourself unless asked to share them.
I also feel that this notion also extends beyond just the gym. You don't know what other people have going on and it's rarely helpful and often harmful for someone to nose in with their comments. You don't know who's in eating disorder recovery for whom you might just be encouraging the pathology instead of whatever healthy idea your considering.
Sure, that's one way of choosing to exist, and the other is in engagement with people around you.
You're welcome to your path, and others are welcome to theirs.
I mean, you say it's one way to choose to exist, I would point out that its professional ethics as determined by the college of physiotherapist in the area where I live.
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If the health considerations alone were enough to keep people from being obese they would not be obese. I myself lost 90 pounds because I was tired of being mocked and of being considered unattractive, health had nothing to do with it. Bullying works!
It's great that it works for you, and I'm sure that you're not the only one, but bullying and shaming also frequently lead to eating disorders that often have very poor health outcomes. A large step for many people in their weight loss journey is confronting all of the shame they have around eating, and resolving their toxic relationship with food.
It seems rather unlikely that eating disorders are 'frequent' in people who very occasionally get 'fat shamed' by some random asshole on the street. I'm 100% sure that kind of asshole harassment does happen, I was obese at a point in my life many years ago. I know it happens. It simply does not follow that is a large trigger for anyone to become mentally ill with an eating disorder. That's just not how it works for average people. More likely they have a family unit that mocked them endlessly as a child, a spouse that degrades them constantly, or they already have a mental problem in the first place. It's obviously still an asshole thing to do, but it doesn't mean some random bullying and some random assholes on the streets are making people go bulemic or anorexic or 'eating their feelings'. If you look into the majority of people who are wildly obese, and have terrible eating disorders where they eat 20k calories a day. A *massive* factor for those people is being raped, or molested in adolescence. Another massive factor is a home life where parents frequently shame their own child for being overweight. This whole "bullying" thing is almost no where on the list of significant factors.
I guess I personally classify family/spouse degradation and mocking as a part of bullying. I do agree that a one-off interaction with a mean stranger on the internet isn't going to cause an eating disorder, but fat-shaming is hardly a one-off incident for most overweight people.
[удалено]
Are you really that uninformed??? Eating disorders are much more dangerous than obesity alone, except maybe for the most extreme cases, and some eating disorders actually make you GAIN weight. Binge eating disorder often starts with dieting and causes weight gain and both bulimia and anorexia have worse health outcomes than obesity. Apart from that the more likely outcome of being bullied is not going out, especially not in places like gyms where the bully type people hang out and spend more time sedentary at home. Depression is another common outcome that does not help with being more active or losing weight. But sure, some extremely ignorant people will continue to think you can bully people into losing weight.
you can bully people into losing weight, it happens a lot. i seriously doubt there is a significant portion of the population that would eat more after being bullied for being obease. if they do, it isn't the bullies fault. such a person is rare and extreamly defective. as for being bullied at the gym or anywhere a person is trying to loose weight or while trying to improve health, that i would never think to be a good thing.
Because emotional eating and stress is a big factor in people becoming obese. The bullying and weight stigma in society makes this much more difficult for the fat person to overcome their emotional eating. I imagine e it's really difficult to lose weight when you can't respect your body.
this is untrue when it comes to bullying for being fat. that is like saying being burned causes people to become fearful and traumatized that will in turn result in irrational behavior where people seek out fire to burn themselves more. insofar as it is true, it isn't the fault of the bully.
As a counter example, I lost over 50kg (whatever that is in pounds) by eating healthy and exercising, and I haven't been mocked or bullied since I was in my teens, nearly 20 years ago. I got healthy because I was tired of being uncomfortable in my own body. So I guess both our anecdotes cancel each other out.
How so? You support my argument, social norms made you uncomfortable being fat. And 50kg is over 100lbs, congrats!
No, my physical being made me experience physical and mental discomfort.
As I said, health and social pressure combined works. What kind of mental discomfort? Where do you think it came from?
It's amazing that you, a stranger on the internet, know me better than I know myself. Being physically exhausted from walking to pick my nephew up from preschool and not having the energy to to play with him when he runs around the playground for example leads to mental discomfort, feeling like I can't be active in his life because of my physical form. Avoiding physical activity because I don't want to be drenched in sweat when going about my day, not because of any social stigma but because it feels like shit. If social pressure had worked to make me lose weight I'd have lost weight decades ago. Instead I drank and did drugs, ate like shit and sat on my ass in front of the computer because it was easier than getting in shape. Social pressure might work for some people but all research points to them being in the minority.
> Bullying works! Yeaaah, and there is infinite number of another people who are in spiral of depression of overeating because they are bullied :) Same logic, if would bullying works, there would not be obese people.
So it worked in your case.. But that doesn't mean it'll work in everyone elses case, no?
Jeez OP, I always forget how crazy fatphobic Reddit is. I've had a similar experience. Most obese people I've met and gotten to know have gone to *heartbreaking* efforts to lose weight. Bariatric surgery, anorexia to the point of needing inpatient care... still overweight. For some people it seems like semaglutide is the only reliable solution, and that's expensive as hell. It's nuts to me how many people have such low capacity for empathy as to think obese people are unaware of their situation.
Calories in < calories out = weight loss is hard fact. There exist medical conditions that influence the numbers but you say most people you know? Do they all have a disorder?
If I feel fine but a bit peckish when running a calorie deficit, and someone else is physically suffering, then you're speaking a useless platitude. Expecting someone to constantly starve themselves is easy to do when you're the type to forget to eat. This is triply true when they're an eating disorder survivor, because their metabolisms are permanently altered.
The deficit is far too extreme if they’re suffering anything other than just being hungry. If you are calling just being hungry “suffering” then lol, and also that tapers off as you lose, your metabolism adjusts and your baseline calorie requirements dip. Small deficits over long periods is the way
You simply don't know what you're talking about here. You're taking your experience and applying it to everyone. Try being less condescending, if it was as simple and easy as you think it is, there wouldn't be the extreme and steadily rising obesity rates we're seeing.
I never once said it’s easy, I know how difficult it is. It however *is* incredibly simple. Eat fewer calories than your current personal baseline expenditure and you WILL lose weight. I’m not a scientist or statistician I don’t know the truth behind the obesity epidemic. Had to hazard a guess? calorically dense food is far more accessiblenow compared to the past, had a bag of chocolate pretzels for a dollar something and nearly choked to death when I read the nutrition facts. + lifestyles are far, far, far more sedentary.
It’s pretty simple. People just don’t like to do hard things.
Thats... literally what i said
I'm agreeing with you.
Oh! Sorry, I misread
Nothing works in everyone's case. But there's a strong argument to be made that a good number of people care more about the opinions of others than they do about their own health. Peer and societal pressure is a thing.
Well in my experience being obese was pretty great while I was around people who were also obese or didn’t care, food is awesome. It was when I moved to an urban area that was generally much fitter that I was, passively or very rudely, clued in over a few months that being a fatass is not acceptable outside that bubble. Unfortunately means there are only two sufficient motivations to not be obese: health/longevity and social pressure. If someone is comically rotund enough to be attracting random comments then clearly they value eating how they like over being healthy. Only leaves the social aspect, relentless bullying from randoms and concern from friends.
Ultimately, this is why I decided to lose all my weight too. I realized that society was not going to change for me, and even if society did change for me, it would make me feel worse if they acquiesced to my bad habits and made me feel like they were okay. I knew deep down that they weren't.
Society shouldn’t have to change for you either, sounds like you stopped being entitled.
If bullying works, we would have eradicated obesity for good. Loads of bullies would love to volunteer to mock fat people
> I believe this is due to a lack of theory of mind and a sense of main character syndrome Believing that strangers have “main character syndrome” and have some mental deficiency is far, far more presumptuous than calling someone fat.
Agreed. And on top of this, there have been a lot of studies that show for any unhealthy addiction (smoking, hard drugs, eating) shame is actually a very influential tool in curbing those behaviors. It might not be nice to hear, but it probably helps more people than you think. And if you go back to "they already know they're extremely unhealthy", who was the first person to tell them all of the negative side effects? Especially if they don't have access to Healthcare. Someone that told them unsolicited.
Where are you sourcing these studies? Every single thing I found states the *complete opposite:* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6565398/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CYou%20actually%20experience%20a%20form,were%20thin%20to%20begin%20with. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11013468/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32127716/ https://www.athenacare.health/stop-fat-shaming-its-harmful-and-it-doesnt-work/ https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/11/fat-shaming-lose-weight-study https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2017/january/fat-shaming-linked-to-greater-health-risks https://www.bbc.com/news/health-49714697
I was just about to say, all research points to shame actually INCREASING addictive behaviors especially when it comes to food.
lol I was about to ask for sources from the other guy but, uh, oh…
Let’s be honest though. The OP specifically calls out unprompted comments about weight on unrelated videos/photos that just feature a fat person. None of that is helpful or equal to a serious medical intervention. It’s bullying.
I don’t call other people fat. I don’t tell them what to eat or how to live. I literally don’t notice that someone is fat unless they’re having trouble with a chair or something. My husband recently noticed that it takes me like 12 times of meeting someone to see that. Online, I still don’t call other people fat. And I think it’s usually rude. But it makes sense that people feel like they aren’t allowed to say it in real life, but they are concerned. It’s obvious that fat people know they are fat, but I think people who do say so have received a verbal kick in the ass that helped them (aka “you don’t have to let him treat you like that,” “therapy isn’t a shameful thing,” “your addiction is affecting your work,” etc.) So they are trying to be helpful. That doesn’t excuse it, but it’s not a failure of mind. And of course there are always trolls who want to upset people, and that’s different.
I would argue that have a strong sense of the theory of mind. While I don't think that telling people they are living an unhealthy is helpful, the reason why people do it is because they recognize the power of messaging in their own lives. If they themselves find outside messaging to be swaying, it's an easy extrapolation to other minds.
What is theory of mind? Why should people be concerned if they 'lack a theory?'
Youre just wrong here. I disagree with OP but this is not the issue at hand. Stop assigning your anxiety over poor vernacular to OP
Poor vernacular? It's literally the whole point of the view. It's the title of the view. Having a deficiency in theory of mind is generally defined as a disorder, present in people with autism, schizophrenia, depressive states, and social anxiety disorder, among other diagnosable conditions. Being an asshole is none of these things. Stop using real psychological terms to call people an asshole in "creative" ways. You are just appropriating something that is a symptom of disorders that people suffer through and turning into an insult. Fuck you for that.
You can source a definition at your leisure.
You can google what it means
So you don't know. Trying to sound smart but you aren't using the term you googled yesterday correctly. Got it.
oh my god. i know what it means, hence why i used it. i just dont have the time to educate you on it
Theory of mind is literaly judging other people, inferring intent, etc. You are confusing Theory of mind with empathy and sympathy. They are not the same thing. Theory of mind doesn't mean "treat others with kindness." Theory of mind is recognizing that others beliefs intentions, thoughts, desires, etc are different than their own. It doesn't mean that I have to stay silent about it. I tried to get you to look it up, but you refused, and lied about understanding it. Try not to use phrases and words you don't understand, you won't look so stupid in the future.
Your last sentence is embarrassing. You are lashing out because you don't know what theory of mind means. Your arguments should be strong enough without resorting to attacks. Your definition of theory of mind is incorrect, and as a result, it makes it incredibly ironic that you called OP stupid. OP never once said that theory of mind means treat people with kindness, that is your own reading comprehension failing you.
Theory of mind is not "literally judging other people". It's a psychological term for having the cognitive ability to understand that other people have their own cognitive processes and separate minds and intentions from our own, even if we are or are not aware of those. I believe someone who sees an obese person and goes "they don't know it's bad for them, so therefore i should tell them" lacks severely in theory of mind as they are unable to project themselves into the mind of another and speculate on how that individual is feeling and thinking. I did understand the term, hence why I used it. Your ability to come to conclusions is faulty as hell and you only come off as bitter with your "try not to use phrases and words you dont udnerstand" just because I wasn't going to give you a free lecture on a widely known psychological term. All I said was "google it" and you immediatley turned into this guy: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-r\_ICWJBudU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-r_ICWJBudU) I won't respond anymore to you, you're obviously just trying to get a ruse out of me by being annoying intentionally.
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irs because we try and keep others in something at least adjacent to reality, because once people start moving too much away from reality, and creating imaginary reference systems they base their lives on, we can’t meet them in this reality because we do not have a way of knowing it. reality is based on cause and effect and this is the only true common ground we can inhabit as a large social group. small social groups can delve into a reality of their own (lets say steampunk lovers) for purposes of fun, but the fabric of this great big social group we call society requires smtg we can all reference to.
None of your arguments justify walking up to an obese person and telling them they are obese, huh?
it is unjustified for a random unknown person to walk up to any other random person and say just about anything at all. ‘unprompted’ doesnt mean ‘walk up to a random person’. if that is how you mean it, yes. if I had an obese cousin, me telling him without prompt that he is obese is a whole different thing.
I still fail to see why you are allowed to unprompty go to your cousin and point out their obesity. How is this justified/ethical/rational behaviour?
But people don’t even always universally agree on cause and effect. And you can have legitimate differences about that. For example, there are literally hundreds of perspectives on what causes poverty, and on what other social problems are caused by poverty.
but we are mostly all on the same page that volcanoes dont cause poverty? thats what I mean by ‘common reality’. we can disagree up to a point but once you leave reality sufficiently, we are not in the same room anymore. one person thinking that poverty is caused by capitalism and another one thinking it is caused by individual factors - they still sit in the same room and can discuss. if a third person were to join with their views that poverty is caused by volcanoes, that would be a whole different thing.
CMV: people that run around just randomly telling fat people they are unhealthy without any instigation don't exist. No one is doing that, people point out that being morbidly obese is unhealthy pretty much only in the context of some moralizing idiot on the other side saying that being a land whale is perfectly healthy and beautiful and to disagree is fatphobic
I’ve had people come up to me, unprompted, to tell me I’m fat and it’s disgusting.
That is disgusting and I am sorry that happened to you.
Oh, I can easily do that. I'm morbidly obese. I also run, swim and cycle. All things that expose you to the public in not the most flattering ways. I cannot count the amount of times I had people shouting at me about being fat, particularly when I'm out running. I will concede that this does seem cultural, though. I'm from Germany, and while I was living there it got so bad that I completely stopped exercising. I simply could not handle the shame and humiliation. When I cautiously started again after moving to Ireland, I was met with nothing but encouragement and positive comments.
People suck sometimes.
I think your view in part comes from it being more of an issue for the person told than the one doing the telling. Nobody thinks they're being a superhero when they look at someone smoking a cigarette and say "hey, those are bad for you" they're just trying to give the smoker a little nudge towards a healthier lifestyle. They dont expect a moral ephipney of this person going "oh my god i had no idea!" but it does help to hear it sometimes. When we dont get feedback we tend to justify our behaviors enough to ourselves that we continue them indefinitely. Food is extra tricky because so often diets can fail, or be a fad, or someone will hit their target weight and then bounce back. I dont think there's anything inherently self important about saying something about how it's unhealthy to be overweight, but it does become more about the other person than the one carrying the extra weight when the person starts to make comments every time you see them, or is looking for excuses to tell you about your weight. Just a passing comment could really be someone trying to be helpful. Continued judgement after that comment has been made is immature... but as for the unpromped initial comment? It's because having a healthy relationship with food really can be so hard, and often times a "dieting" mindset sets you up for failure by focusing you on what foods you cant eat rather than finding things you like that are good for you, and then when you hit your target weight and start to feel "done" or like you can take a little break the weight starts to pile on. People who know that might feel motivated to give you a heads up incase you'd been "finished" with a diet and stopped keeping track of what you're eating for a little too long.
peer pressure works extremely well. why else do you think so many are peer pressured into doing bad things even tho they know the risks?? maybe others are trying to peer pressure the fat person to lose weight?i myself am very fat and started my journey to lose body fat MOSTLY cuz of peer pressure. people hate change especially when the change is related to the truth
u know what lemme rephrase that- its because of peer pressure that the actual impact of risks got into my mind very strongly
I have a friend who is a physiotherapist, and when walking together she will often stop people who are out on a morning jog or whatever and correct their posture, give them advice. She is always noticing how people move, where they may be lacking in muscles causing them to have a certain step or something like that. I don't think there's an issue with this, and people she stops basically always take it positively, it's free advice. I think it can be similar for encouraging or highlighting to people that they can work on themselves in any area. With obesity a lot of it is mental, a relationship with food/self. Having encouragement even randomly and anonymously online might set them on a better path.
> Having encouragement even randomly and anonymously online might set them on a better path. I think most fat folks know they're fat. I'm a bit chubby myself. I'm well aware of it. Strangers stopping me on the street to tell me isn't going to be even remotely helpful
Maybe. And maybe for someone else it may be different. Sometimes people accept the way things are without realising they can change. Stopping someone to tell them they're fat is pointless. Telling someone some diet or exercise tips can go a long way.
> Maybe. And maybe for someone else it may be different. I'm pretty confident that the vast majority of people who are overweight know they are overweight. Your friend the physio giving people posture advice is an expert helping someone who likely could benefit from help. Telling someone they are fat is just being mean
I said that would be pointless. Who is out there calling people fat? Giving lifestyle advice isn't an insult.
>Who is out there calling people fat? People who stop strangers in the street and critique their "lifestyle" based on nothing more than their physical appearance >Giving lifestyle advice isn't an insult. Sure it is. When it's a commentary on who the person is it is often an insult. See also "You'd be so much prettier if you smiled"
> I don't think there's an issue with this, and people she stops basically always take it positively, it's free advice. You don't see a problem with a health professional providing unsolicited health-related advice to strangers when she is not privy to their entire health history?
I work with physiotherapists at a gym and they literally would never do that. When I got hired I had a whole month of feeling so friggin uncomfortable with sitting in the gym sometimes because the guys here are notoriously shitty with form. But like I was told, if they don't ask for advice, you don't have any idea what specific injury or specific body quirk that they might be adapting for, you don't know what you don't know, keep your opinions to yourself unless asked to share them. I also feel that this notion also extends beyond just the gym. You don't know what other people have going on and it's rarely helpful and often harmful for someone to nose in with their comments. You don't know who's in eating disorder recovery for whom you might just be encouraging the pathology instead of whatever healthy idea your considering.
Sure, that's one way of choosing to exist, and the other is in engagement with people around you. You're welcome to your path, and others are welcome to theirs.
I mean, you say it's one way to choose to exist, I would point out that its professional ethics as determined by the college of physiotherapist in the area where I live.
OK? That's fine too. I'd personally talk to someone if it seems that I can say something that may help them.