Generally if something tastes way off its generally not a good idea to eat, also by just knowing its taste and apperance its hard to make a proper identification
Those were the days! Drop into the local pharmacy for a kg of ket and a pint of ether.
Edit: didn’t see OP’s initial text. Maybe some kind of salt and sugar mixture? Epson salts perhaps? (Although i don’t think that would melt in a frying pan)
Sodium nitrate preserving salts
"NaNO3 is solid that appears in a crystalline structure and white colour, in room temperature. Its crystal structure can be categorised into two types – trigonal and rhombohedral. This compound comes with a sweet odour. It has a slightly bitter and saline type of taste."
Yeah hard to tell without follow-up information, I'm also not a chemist xD
It can melt in the low hundreds.
But I don't know for sure.
https://youtu.be/1ZDfh1sJ-AI?si=M7j8UmMwr-IrEEOf
Can confirm she (and Nonno) are fine! Lack of science background meant it took us ages to figure out. They thought it was the water (despite tea being drinkable). Then oil… finally worked out it was the salt
Mhm, I find hard to believe it's a ionic salt though, most of them have a high (or relatively high) melting point, sodium nitrate melts around 300°C iirc
That's a good point, I'm wondering what could possibly be purchased as "salt" which is not NaCl without raising flags.
Preservatives, and melting agents were what came to mind.
Frying pan temps probably below 300C.
I think op maybe got lucky they didn't get poisoned too badly.
Aside from NaCl, I think KCl and CaCl2 should be safe, otherwise I'd keep an eye open (Magnesium sulfate MgSO4 isn't the best but I don't think it's too bad for your health either) but as someone else already said: there's an incredibly vast amount of compounds that come as white powder so it's pretty hard to tell just like that.
KCl is for sure safe, that's what low or no sodium salt is. It is bitter tasting so it's usually a mixture of potassium and sodium chloride to make it taste more "salt-like."
Probably not boiling the salt directly. NaNO3 is hygroscopic so it will pull some water from the air, which will boil off when heated. NaCl is not hygroscopic.
M guess would he ammonium chloride or urea (carbamide). These evaporate as it degrades into volatile compounds, and white smoke is produced. I'm not sure about sweetness and the behaviour in a frying pan. Water solution of urea would be neutral pH and ammonium chloride would be somewhat acidic (pH <5). I think these are also easily obtained commercially.
I had to heat up a new batch sorry - it’s hard to describe, basically ‘not good’ 🤣 I get a whiff of candle but at this point my nose is fried. I think you’re 100% right
I think it is ammonium chloride considering they sold it as "salt" but can't say for sure remotely. You could look after its properties around the web to find out, otherwise test tube reactions are one way to be sure. Maybe a nearby pharmacy has reagents for finding out quickly.
I just mixed it with baking soda and it reacted - another sign :)
My mum got married to the idea of citric acid for a moment (the brand also sells it) BUT the white smudge! You’d already considered it. Thank you!
Salammoniac (the old name for ammonium chloride) does have some gastronomical uses apparently…sometimes a component of baking powder and for making salty liquorice.
Have you got some sodium hydroxide?
Maybe some Drano under the sink?
Try adding some of your notsalt to a small dilute solution of drano …( open the window).
Some ammonia gas will be evolved if it is ammonium chloride. There’s no mistaking that smell.
"Whiff of candle" and low melting point suggests organic. Other evidence points toward ammonium chloride. An IR would help a lot here. If it is inorganic, the old fashioned way to answer your question would be [Qualitative Analysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualitative_inorganic_analysis). The best test for ammonium is to add a few drops of NaOH to your material in a small container. Cover with a lid that has a wetted piece of red litmus paper stuck to the bottom of the lid. The NaOH liberates NH\_3 gas which dissolves in the water on the red litmus turning it blue. You also can confirm the odor of NH\_3.
Google says it's irritating to the lungs and can cause breathing problems, toxic to the kidneys and could ldamage your gastrointestinal system too. i dunno thoz the Swedes are known to be a bit crazy
When you digest proteins and amino acids, you generate ammonia and hence ammonium ions in your system, its then taken care of by some enzymes to give you urea. Unless you swallow a lot of ammonium chloride you will not feel a thing. Inhalation is another story, but inhaling ANYTHING but clean air is going to hurt your lungs. Also fun fact, weightlifters may use ammonium carbonate smelling salts as a source of ammonia to give themselves a mental boost before lifting heavy, so generally if you dont do a stupid amount, you will be fine.
TLDR: the dose makes the poison, you need A LOT of ammonium chloride to hurt yourself
Makes me wonder — if it melts, it is likely not an inorganic salt. Bitter taste. Slightly sweet. Found at nonna’s house. Rather large, clean crystals.
I have a reason to believe this is an artificial sweetener. Either aspartame or acesulfame K. Both are bitter in high concentrations. Both either melt (acesulfame) or decompose (aspartame) at ~225°C, which is absolutely doable on a pan.
If it smells like ammonia when you add wet sodium carbonate (bicarb may work, but less well) to it, that'll confirm that it's ammonium. Make sure to use small amounts and not dissolve the solids in water completely. (ie, add water, "salt," and sodium carbonate together in a 1:1:1 ratio)
it's possible that the substance is a mixture containing urea along with other compounds, such as sugar alcohols or citric acid, which could account for the combined properties observed.
Nah all good - they might be able to say it could be (I dunno) bicarbonate of soda because that’s common in kitchens but yeah doubtful they burn compounds for fun
Hahah, well, good thing is that compound isnt toxic since theres various of white powder supstances. Also, it looks kind of sugar (but it doesnt act like), so i doubt its bicarbonate
Salt is a chemical compound too. Water also. Everything you encounter is either a chemical compound or a mixture of many of them. (Including you)
There aren't many things that are NOT composed of chemical compounds. Examples could be black holes and neutron stars.
Sounds like a curing salt imo. Probably Morton tender quick. Which is a combination of sodium chloride and sodium nitrite. Used for pickling or curing meat. When in water gets a yellow hew like pickles in glass. Known to be bitter due to the nitrites. It’s non ionized.
My random guess based on the fact that it is sold for cooking purposes and comes in crystals that look similar is citric acid. It would explain a color change as many plant compounds function as indicators. Of course, you'd usually call it sour rather than bitter, but...?
If you're suspicious, I trust you've stopped using it.
Look at the crystals under a magnifying glass. Salt crystals are cubical. But that doesn't mean its pure salt. It depends a lot on where the seawater was taken from, perhaps some polluted harbor where industrial and human waste is dumped? I worked in such a place. But it may not even be sea salt. It might just be ordinary mined salt. How would you know?
There are other ways to confirm that its salt, but it depends on how much work you want to do. You could make a saturated solution and measure its density, for example, which is 1.202 gram/mL at room temperature.
Which can be toxic. "**Intentional ingestions of dilute ammonium chloride solutions can cause serious injury to the gastrointestinal tract and pulmonary systems**, which can result in a complicated and prolonged hospitalization."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19876856/#:\~:text=Conclusion%3A%20Intentional%20ingestions%20of%20dilute,a%20complicated%20and%20prolonged%20hospitalization.
Ammonium chloride is often put on black licorice, so long as you aren't downing spoonfuls of it you'll most likely be okay, it's not for me but it is a replacement if you are trying to lower your sodium, but potassium chloride is a much better substitute in my opinion, but that is still even bitter.
Could you add a photo of the container if you have it?
Has anyone walked you through a proper melting point test? Having the more exact data would help a ton.
Could you take a short video of what it looks like when it hits a small flame?
Good science, OP! Even without access to proper* (edit: *modern) analytical techniques you still tested hypotheses, made accurate observations and drew conclusions! (And probably learned a decent amount along the way?)
Sounds like your family members will be just fine, and hopefully the manufacturer can give you guys a good payout or something.
Amm chloride is also named sal ammoniac and is a food additive, so I can see the confusion for salt but you have to get it really hot to melt it, 330C, calcium nitrate is fertilizer that's melts low and can be called salpeter again the potential to co fuse the name with salt but it wouldn't be sold in a store but would be in a garden centre. Two tests possible, bulk density is different between the two 1.5 for amm chloride and 1.8 for calcium nitrate bit also the calcium nitrate melts at like 43C so if you put it in a cup in a pan of boiled water it would melt. Very good fertilizer, quite toxic to eat. If it was cal nitrate then keep it away from organics as it's an oxidizing agent and could cause a fire with contact and heat. All that said I looked for domestically sold saltpeter, these common names are often interchangeable, and found potassium nitrate for meat curing it has a very high melting point virtually the same as the amm chloride but its density is higher at 2.1 per mg so if you had a 100ml measure it would weight 210g if you started the balance with the empty measure. I just can't see ammonium chloride being sold in a store. Google craft butchers pantry saltpetre and you will find a product that looks easily confused with salt.
Just don’t see how it’s helpful to someone looking to ID their material. Plus chromophores aren’t some rare or unique thing. Conjugated systems are everywhere. The “organic chemistry is just white powders” trope is an inaccurate one, and not common enough outside the field for it to not send OP on a wild goose chase 🤷🏻♂️
It was just a joke pointing out how fruitless it would be to attempt to characterize only using its appearance.
The real answer is to do a FTIR, then a X-ray powder diffraction, TGA then DSC ans you ll pretty much have your answer. However OP clearly doesn't have acces to that
Generally if something tastes way off its generally not a good idea to eat, also by just knowing its taste and apperance its hard to make a proper identification
A lot of chemicals are white powders or clear liquids.
Or both, depending on pressure and temperature!
I'm looking at you, ammonium phosphate
Could it be msg?
Ah good theory! Tried it against msg and no (also MSG boils very differently)
Ketamine?
Lol, imagine your nan coming back from the store with a kg of ketamine.
My gran would probably have fet instead
Those were the days! Drop into the local pharmacy for a kg of ket and a pint of ether. Edit: didn’t see OP’s initial text. Maybe some kind of salt and sugar mixture? Epson salts perhaps? (Although i don’t think that would melt in a frying pan)
It's ammonium chloride apparantly.
Thats what i thought. If it has a wetness that makes it look like crystal meth, then my bet is on ammonium chloride.
Mmm extra spicy sea salt. Definitely not something that should be mislabelled.
IMAGINE THO. 1 kg ketamine for $2 🤣
It tastes more like salty and slightly bitter
MSG has very needle-like crystals if my kitchen is anything to go by.
Msg looks more like menthol crystals, sharp and linear
Could be urea.
Urea is a great example but the pH when dissolved doesn’t agree 🙂
Reading about it now and very interesting! The boiling point seems right, doing more research (unsure of tests I can conduct 🤣)
You might try connecting it to a battery. If it forms chlorine gas, you at least should know that.
Sodium nitrate preserving salts "NaNO3 is solid that appears in a crystalline structure and white colour, in room temperature. Its crystal structure can be categorised into two types – trigonal and rhombohedral. This compound comes with a sweet odour. It has a slightly bitter and saline type of taste."
I don't think it would behave the same when heating, as op described.
Yeah hard to tell without follow-up information, I'm also not a chemist xD It can melt in the low hundreds. But I don't know for sure. https://youtu.be/1ZDfh1sJ-AI?si=M7j8UmMwr-IrEEOf
It’s a good theory but yeah it’s ammonium chloride. How a company can package that as sea salt by accident does confuse me 🤣
That's grounds for legal action. That's seriously dangerous. Holy shit..
It’s edible, it’s used in salted licorice.
It can be in certain situations, but when heated it releases toxic and irritating fumes. So it's certainly not safe in all situations.
Not safe in the same quantity as NaCl
Edible yes but not a safe substitute for sea salt 😂
Jesus fucking Christ. I hope your nonna is ok.
Can confirm she (and Nonno) are fine! Lack of science background meant it took us ages to figure out. They thought it was the water (despite tea being drinkable). Then oil… finally worked out it was the salt
Amonium chloride evaporates/sublimes. Mix it with NaOH, smell the NH3
If you're sure it's ammonium chloride, I'm surprised it's flowing. That crap is somewhat hygroscopic and will turn into a brick relatively easily.
Mhm, I find hard to believe it's a ionic salt though, most of them have a high (or relatively high) melting point, sodium nitrate melts around 300°C iirc
That's a good point, I'm wondering what could possibly be purchased as "salt" which is not NaCl without raising flags. Preservatives, and melting agents were what came to mind. Frying pan temps probably below 300C. I think op maybe got lucky they didn't get poisoned too badly.
Aside from NaCl, I think KCl and CaCl2 should be safe, otherwise I'd keep an eye open (Magnesium sulfate MgSO4 isn't the best but I don't think it's too bad for your health either) but as someone else already said: there's an incredibly vast amount of compounds that come as white powder so it's pretty hard to tell just like that.
KCl is for sure safe, that's what low or no sodium salt is. It is bitter tasting so it's usually a mixture of potassium and sodium chloride to make it taste more "salt-like."
Probably not boiling the salt directly. NaNO3 is hygroscopic so it will pull some water from the air, which will boil off when heated. NaCl is not hygroscopic.
Nonna has been eating oxidizers, thus becoming a bomb.
Did it leave any smudge upon heating or evaporated completely? Is it water soluble? If so, what pH is it?
Evaporates completely - lots of white smoke while it does. If you put a spoon in before it’s evaporated it goes hard and sticky as it cools
M guess would he ammonium chloride or urea (carbamide). These evaporate as it degrades into volatile compounds, and white smoke is produced. I'm not sure about sweetness and the behaviour in a frying pan. Water solution of urea would be neutral pH and ammonium chloride would be somewhat acidic (pH <5). I think these are also easily obtained commercially.
You’re a flipping genius. PH is very low - about 5
Does it smell of anything when heated?
I had to heat up a new batch sorry - it’s hard to describe, basically ‘not good’ 🤣 I get a whiff of candle but at this point my nose is fried. I think you’re 100% right
I think it is ammonium chloride considering they sold it as "salt" but can't say for sure remotely. You could look after its properties around the web to find out, otherwise test tube reactions are one way to be sure. Maybe a nearby pharmacy has reagents for finding out quickly.
I just mixed it with baking soda and it reacted - another sign :) My mum got married to the idea of citric acid for a moment (the brand also sells it) BUT the white smudge! You’d already considered it. Thank you!
Salammoniac (the old name for ammonium chloride) does have some gastronomical uses apparently…sometimes a component of baking powder and for making salty liquorice. Have you got some sodium hydroxide? Maybe some Drano under the sink? Try adding some of your notsalt to a small dilute solution of drano …( open the window). Some ammonia gas will be evolved if it is ammonium chloride. There’s no mistaking that smell.
"Whiff of candle" and low melting point suggests organic. Other evidence points toward ammonium chloride. An IR would help a lot here. If it is inorganic, the old fashioned way to answer your question would be [Qualitative Analysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualitative_inorganic_analysis). The best test for ammonium is to add a few drops of NaOH to your material in a small container. Cover with a lid that has a wetted piece of red litmus paper stuck to the bottom of the lid. The NaOH liberates NH\_3 gas which dissolves in the water on the red litmus turning it blue. You also can confirm the odor of NH\_3.
It also goes very yellow after being heated (if it doesn’t evaporate)
Send it back to the manufacturer or to an XRD lab.
I think some has gone back via the supermarket but the manafacturer wanted us to drop it off
Have them pay the shipping back to them
Hopefully it's some of Donghua jinlongs Glycine
Sounds like their industrial grade glycine. Still very high quality I hear.
Donghua jinlongs Glycine is the highest of quality!
OH MY WHY IS THERE AMMOCHKORIDE ON SALT??? call the company to complain, somebody could've gotten seriously injured
Ammonium Chloride (if that is what you are saying) is a salt, and I believe it's safe to eat. The Swedes put it on their liquorice.
Google says it's irritating to the lungs and can cause breathing problems, toxic to the kidneys and could ldamage your gastrointestinal system too. i dunno thoz the Swedes are known to be a bit crazy
When you digest proteins and amino acids, you generate ammonia and hence ammonium ions in your system, its then taken care of by some enzymes to give you urea. Unless you swallow a lot of ammonium chloride you will not feel a thing. Inhalation is another story, but inhaling ANYTHING but clean air is going to hurt your lungs. Also fun fact, weightlifters may use ammonium carbonate smelling salts as a source of ammonia to give themselves a mental boost before lifting heavy, so generally if you dont do a stupid amount, you will be fine. TLDR: the dose makes the poison, you need A LOT of ammonium chloride to hurt yourself
aah makes sense
Isn’t ammonia used to momify corpses ?
It's the dose that makes the poison.
Makes me wonder — if it melts, it is likely not an inorganic salt. Bitter taste. Slightly sweet. Found at nonna’s house. Rather large, clean crystals. I have a reason to believe this is an artificial sweetener. Either aspartame or acesulfame K. Both are bitter in high concentrations. Both either melt (acesulfame) or decompose (aspartame) at ~225°C, which is absolutely doable on a pan.
I hope you live in a country with functional consumer protection laws.
We do. Nonna chucked the packet *facepalm* looking into if she kept the receipt.
If it smells like ammonia when you add wet sodium carbonate (bicarb may work, but less well) to it, that'll confirm that it's ammonium. Make sure to use small amounts and not dissolve the solids in water completely. (ie, add water, "salt," and sodium carbonate together in a 1:1:1 ratio)
it's possible that the substance is a mixture containing urea along with other compounds, such as sugar alcohols or citric acid, which could account for the combined properties observed.
Maybe you should post somewhere in cooking subreddit
It’s not salt so I don’t think chefs will know. It’s a chemical compound.
Ah okay, my bad.
Nah all good - they might be able to say it could be (I dunno) bicarbonate of soda because that’s common in kitchens but yeah doubtful they burn compounds for fun
Hahah, well, good thing is that compound isnt toxic since theres various of white powder supstances. Also, it looks kind of sugar (but it doesnt act like), so i doubt its bicarbonate
Are the crystals cubical under a magnifier?
Salt is a chemical compound too. Water also. Everything you encounter is either a chemical compound or a mixture of many of them. (Including you) There aren't many things that are NOT composed of chemical compounds. Examples could be black holes and neutron stars.
Ok but chefs are not chemists.
Well, technically....
Cooks are my favorite chemists.
Clear your social calendar...we have to cook.
Sounds like a curing salt imo. Probably Morton tender quick. Which is a combination of sodium chloride and sodium nitrite. Used for pickling or curing meat. When in water gets a yellow hew like pickles in glass. Known to be bitter due to the nitrites. It’s non ionized.
Potassium chloride? It's used as a salt substitute
BHT?
You need to stop nonna from putting that in her food.
She has
Looks like the MSM I use.
MSM?
Methyl Sulphonyl Methane. Most commonly used for joint relief with along with Glucosamine Chondroitin.
My random guess based on the fact that it is sold for cooking purposes and comes in crystals that look similar is citric acid. It would explain a color change as many plant compounds function as indicators. Of course, you'd usually call it sour rather than bitter, but...?
If you're suspicious, I trust you've stopped using it. Look at the crystals under a magnifying glass. Salt crystals are cubical. But that doesn't mean its pure salt. It depends a lot on where the seawater was taken from, perhaps some polluted harbor where industrial and human waste is dumped? I worked in such a place. But it may not even be sea salt. It might just be ordinary mined salt. How would you know? There are other ways to confirm that its salt, but it depends on how much work you want to do. You could make a saturated solution and measure its density, for example, which is 1.202 gram/mL at room temperature.
It’s not (table) salt, I confirmed last night it’s ammonium chloride
Which can be toxic. "**Intentional ingestions of dilute ammonium chloride solutions can cause serious injury to the gastrointestinal tract and pulmonary systems**, which can result in a complicated and prolonged hospitalization." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19876856/#:\~:text=Conclusion%3A%20Intentional%20ingestions%20of%20dilute,a%20complicated%20and%20prolonged%20hospitalization.
Ammonium chloride is often put on black licorice, so long as you aren't downing spoonfuls of it you'll most likely be okay, it's not for me but it is a replacement if you are trying to lower your sodium, but potassium chloride is a much better substitute in my opinion, but that is still even bitter.
Could you add a photo of the container if you have it? Has anyone walked you through a proper melting point test? Having the more exact data would help a ton. Could you take a short video of what it looks like when it hits a small flame?
NaOH?
Do single crystal XRD
Good science, OP! Even without access to proper* (edit: *modern) analytical techniques you still tested hypotheses, made accurate observations and drew conclusions! (And probably learned a decent amount along the way?) Sounds like your family members will be just fine, and hopefully the manufacturer can give you guys a good payout or something.
Amm chloride is also named sal ammoniac and is a food additive, so I can see the confusion for salt but you have to get it really hot to melt it, 330C, calcium nitrate is fertilizer that's melts low and can be called salpeter again the potential to co fuse the name with salt but it wouldn't be sold in a store but would be in a garden centre. Two tests possible, bulk density is different between the two 1.5 for amm chloride and 1.8 for calcium nitrate bit also the calcium nitrate melts at like 43C so if you put it in a cup in a pan of boiled water it would melt. Very good fertilizer, quite toxic to eat. If it was cal nitrate then keep it away from organics as it's an oxidizing agent and could cause a fire with contact and heat. All that said I looked for domestically sold saltpeter, these common names are often interchangeable, and found potassium nitrate for meat curing it has a very high melting point virtually the same as the amm chloride but its density is higher at 2.1 per mg so if you had a 100ml measure it would weight 210g if you started the balance with the empty measure. I just can't see ammonium chloride being sold in a store. Google craft butchers pantry saltpetre and you will find a product that looks easily confused with salt.
Every single organic compound is white or off white
That’s extremely false, my guy
It s obviously a common trope/joke. I'm clearly not talking about chromophores nor organometallic complexes
Just don’t see how it’s helpful to someone looking to ID their material. Plus chromophores aren’t some rare or unique thing. Conjugated systems are everywhere. The “organic chemistry is just white powders” trope is an inaccurate one, and not common enough outside the field for it to not send OP on a wild goose chase 🤷🏻♂️
It was just a joke pointing out how fruitless it would be to attempt to characterize only using its appearance. The real answer is to do a FTIR, then a X-ray powder diffraction, TGA then DSC ans you ll pretty much have your answer. However OP clearly doesn't have acces to that
You might notice the other information provided about the ‘sea salt’. Reddit isn’t a picture book my dude
It can still be a salt, just not table salt/NaCl
The implication behind ‘sea salt’ is NaCl
Chloroacetic acid is a white solid iirc. It could be that maybe?
Looks like the devils dandruff
Possibly a curing salt? A lot of people buy curing salts instead of sea salt