Haven't seen NaOH dissolving with 'special effects'. It is always very calm and to be honest it does dissolve slowly compared to many other substances.
KOH is of different temper. Still, even though KOH dissolves much more eagerly, still I haven't seen it splashing around. Still, the amount of aerosol which gets to your throat, lungs and other mucous organs and cause so much irritation that you would probably stop and realize something is wrong long before that.
Some of the stuff in my lab involves making a 6N NaOH solution in a 10 litre volumetric flask. The stuff gets extremely hot, but yes, still calm, just heat.
I know they use KOH to dissolve human remains so that stuff must be potent.
I used to make a 400g/l solution of KOH. It also stays calm, but the stuff gets also extremelly hot. I think the temperature exceeded the boiling point of water (offcourse, due to ebulioscopic effect the solution itselfdoes not boil). And a splash of fresh water, which would swim on the surface of the much denser solution, may get hot enough to boil into someone's face.
Have you ever made a 50% solution? I've done it, 2L water and 1 kilo of NaOH, the water definitely gets hot enough to boil. But it still wasn't violent or anything.
People tend to use the word "explode" rather liberally. NaOH doesn't explode.
There are some violent reactions that can occur when it's added to water, though. For instance, a lot of heat is generated when you add dry NaOH to water. In many cases, this can be enough to cause the water to boil, which can fling hot caustic solution everywhere. That's the most-likely occurrence, here.
Some drain cleaners have aluminum powder mixed in with the NaOH, in order to increase the heat output when water is added to it. That reaction does create hydrogen, which can explode if it gets ignited by a heat source, like a cigarette or a candle.
This was my first thought, if aluminum is present somewhere the reaction is exothermic and violent enough to cause detonation. My question is where or why there was metalic aluminum?
As I mentioned, some drain cleaner products consist of NaOH and aluminum powder. The aluminum is in there specifically to increase the heat produced when it's dumped into a clogged drain. The heat helps melt grease in the clog and/or helps the NaOH react with the clog materials.
Depends on who you ask, but most sources say that hydrogen needs over 500°C to self ignite. And the reaction happens in water which boils at 100°C. It might get a little bit hotter than that but it's veeery unlikely to get past 200°C, let alone 500°C
I’ve had reactions like this pop. The hydrogen doesn’t ignite in the water, the hydrogen is not particularly soluble in water, it evolves immediately. It ignites in the air above the water.
Of course hydrogen evolves immediately, but the reaction requires water. And the very second the reaction mixture gets past 150°C or so, water boils, cooling the reaction mixture. Hydrogen is just not hot enough to self-ignite. It needs an external heat source like a spark or an open flame.
but the reaction mixture is a place where the temperature of products is determined. And hydrogen after leaving the reaction mixture is too cold to self ignite
I’ve done this, I mistakenly dropped an aluminum part in some alkaline NaOH soap at work and it absolutely ignited the hydrogen produced. Big loud pop.
Pretty sure you can’t boil water just from NaOH’s heat of dissolution (unless the water is already very warm). If I remember correctly the max temp rise is in the 30-50 deg C range.
Yeah… don’t go around saying things like this out loud, it just speaks to your inexperience.
Sodium hydroxide solutions will absolutely self boil if mixed improperly or at high strength, the same with diluting sulfuric the wrong way or too-rapid neutralizations.
I explicitly teach this shit to new hires and students and have seen it happen a million times. And the reasoning for their hurry is always the same. It’s part of the learning experience, some people really need a demo before it sinks in.
“Oh my god, what happened!? I’ve done it before so many times and this has never happened before!”.
“Uh huh, but we taught you that it might, then it did…. and now there’s 2 L of boiling hot 20% KOH eating the wax off the tile floor. Can you please go get the baking soda?”
Even the cold water trick is unreliable and works only for up to 10%. *Even still* local hot spots can still cause the solution to pop and spit if you aren’t vigorously stirring.
Im pretty sure she mixed up some other stuff with it and is now complaining about the product that had the most scary ingredient listed on it. In my experience, most of the times this shit happens it's because people decide to mix random stuff because extra cleaning products = cleaner.
That being said it might be what others have said and she just added too much of it and the water boiled up.
Hot enough liquid can make skin *slough*. I wouldn't expect a third hand anecdote to accurately describe whatever trauma supposedly happened.
I could see her having a stuck toilet and just adding reagents until things went awful. People are stupid, a broken toilet is distressing to a lot of people. I could definitely see a clogged toilet turned into a shredded Al foil + drano + agitation nightmare.
I'm assuming it's a liquid product, not a powdered product?
A liquid product containing sodium hydroxide, especially one sold for domestic/commercial use, won't release sufficient heat via mixing to cause a superheat "explosion" - so a possible explanation is that, prior to using the alkaline product, she (or someone else) used a highly acidic product to clean the toilet. A number of "plumber's helper" type products are basically just concentrated sulphuric acid (stupid idea, but there you go) - so if she poured the alkaline material down straight after the "plumber's helper" then a superheat "explosion" may be possible.
If it was a powdered product - then possibilities exist. Once again, mixing with a strong acid is one possibility. Also, if it's a "Draino" type product (which has incorporated aluminium shavings in the blend) then release of hydrogen during the reaction could be a possibility (the customer wasn't smoking or threw a cig butt into the toilet, did they?)
Of course, it's all speculation, and if there's one thing I can almost guarantee - the customer will never give you the full story.
Can confirm. Was neutralizing waste at work and someone mislabled a container of 93% sulfuric as waste and it got added in with other waste containers waiting to be neutralized. Usually add 50mL of 50% NaOH to container just to get the pH up a bit since its all generally a bit acidic. That thing SPEWED heat and acid. Thank god for PPE and fume hoods.
Straight up sodium *metal* explodes when immersed in water. Sodium hydride (NaH) may too for all I know.
But for sodium *hydroxide* (NaOH), “explode” is a gross exaggeration at best. It does react exothermically, but does not “explode”, though it *could* “pop” at you if you put it in water that’s already hot to begin with. (Source: personal experience)
But as for your situation, I have no clue why NaOH would explode like that. Whatever made it explode, I do NOT believe it was the water.
NaOH on its own doesn't do that. However, seeing how it's a product most likely intended as a drain cleaner, there's a chance it's mixed with aluminium powder, and if that shit gets wet, the NaOH will violently attack the aluminium, which generates a bunch of hydrogen gas. If it's in a sealed container, the pressure build up will eventually make it blow up.
There is one possibility which most replies don't seem to have touched on. Is it possible that the container somehow became pressurized, such that when the lid was released it caused a violent ejection?
It wouldn't be a violent reaction per se but a build up of gases before the bottle was opened. That would be quite easy to do and could explain why the sodium hydroxide ended up on the ceiling. Eg. You get some aluminum in the bottle or something else inside which reacts to form a gas, cap it, and then at some point in the future, shake and open.
I've had a similar thing happen when I've opened tightly sealed bottles containing volatile liquids in a hot lab. I wouldn't personally call it an explosion, but if someone were to be hyperbolic, I guess that is one way to describe it... Lol
She likely did not read the instructions. Drain cleaners are some of the strongest household chemicals, and people dont have respect for those.
People are more concerned with «chemicals» in food packaging than with drain cleaner.
Maybe it was NaOH drain Cleaner premixed with Aluminium granulate.if it was not properly closed and protected against wetness, the water could have started the production of Hydrogen. The heat from this reaction might have been enough to ignite the gas an cause an explosion.
NaOH reactions can generate lots of heat!
Even with water
Haven't seen NaOH dissolving with 'special effects'. It is always very calm and to be honest it does dissolve slowly compared to many other substances. KOH is of different temper. Still, even though KOH dissolves much more eagerly, still I haven't seen it splashing around. Still, the amount of aerosol which gets to your throat, lungs and other mucous organs and cause so much irritation that you would probably stop and realize something is wrong long before that.
I managed to get water to boil with NaOH before
Some of the stuff in my lab involves making a 6N NaOH solution in a 10 litre volumetric flask. The stuff gets extremely hot, but yes, still calm, just heat. I know they use KOH to dissolve human remains so that stuff must be potent.
I used to make a 400g/l solution of KOH. It also stays calm, but the stuff gets also extremelly hot. I think the temperature exceeded the boiling point of water (offcourse, due to ebulioscopic effect the solution itselfdoes not boil). And a splash of fresh water, which would swim on the surface of the much denser solution, may get hot enough to boil into someone's face.
Geez, that's hectic. Glad I don't have to deal with that!
Have you ever made a 50% solution? I've done it, 2L water and 1 kilo of NaOH, the water definitely gets hot enough to boil. But it still wasn't violent or anything.
People tend to use the word "explode" rather liberally. NaOH doesn't explode. There are some violent reactions that can occur when it's added to water, though. For instance, a lot of heat is generated when you add dry NaOH to water. In many cases, this can be enough to cause the water to boil, which can fling hot caustic solution everywhere. That's the most-likely occurrence, here. Some drain cleaners have aluminum powder mixed in with the NaOH, in order to increase the heat output when water is added to it. That reaction does create hydrogen, which can explode if it gets ignited by a heat source, like a cigarette or a candle.
If it was one of these aluminum containing mixtures, an exothermic hydrogen evolving reaction can definitely self-ignite.
This was my first thought, if aluminum is present somewhere the reaction is exothermic and violent enough to cause detonation. My question is where or why there was metalic aluminum?
As I mentioned, some drain cleaner products consist of NaOH and aluminum powder. The aluminum is in there specifically to increase the heat produced when it's dumped into a clogged drain. The heat helps melt grease in the clog and/or helps the NaOH react with the clog materials.
They put aluminum in it to create bubbles that can help break up clogs.
If that practice is actually happening, that's why it exploded
Depends on who you ask, but most sources say that hydrogen needs over 500°C to self ignite. And the reaction happens in water which boils at 100°C. It might get a little bit hotter than that but it's veeery unlikely to get past 200°C, let alone 500°C
I’ve had reactions like this pop. The hydrogen doesn’t ignite in the water, the hydrogen is not particularly soluble in water, it evolves immediately. It ignites in the air above the water.
Of course hydrogen evolves immediately, but the reaction requires water. And the very second the reaction mixture gets past 150°C or so, water boils, cooling the reaction mixture. Hydrogen is just not hot enough to self-ignite. It needs an external heat source like a spark or an open flame.
The “reaction mixture” is not the same place that the ignition is happening.
but the reaction mixture is a place where the temperature of products is determined. And hydrogen after leaving the reaction mixture is too cold to self ignite
I’ve done this, I mistakenly dropped an aluminum part in some alkaline NaOH soap at work and it absolutely ignited the hydrogen produced. Big loud pop.
It’s not. There are plenty of chemists that can attest to this.
bruh why? WHY ADD ALUMINIUM. this is why we can't have nice things
The aluminum thing made me remember the classic "drain-o bombs" the shithead kids at my high school would make and get in trouble for.
Pretty sure you can’t boil water just from NaOH’s heat of dissolution (unless the water is already very warm). If I remember correctly the max temp rise is in the 30-50 deg C range.
A 50% solution has a heat of dissolution well over 100C.
[удалено]
Yeah… don’t go around saying things like this out loud, it just speaks to your inexperience. Sodium hydroxide solutions will absolutely self boil if mixed improperly or at high strength, the same with diluting sulfuric the wrong way or too-rapid neutralizations. I explicitly teach this shit to new hires and students and have seen it happen a million times. And the reasoning for their hurry is always the same. It’s part of the learning experience, some people really need a demo before it sinks in. “Oh my god, what happened!? I’ve done it before so many times and this has never happened before!”. “Uh huh, but we taught you that it might, then it did…. and now there’s 2 L of boiling hot 20% KOH eating the wax off the tile floor. Can you please go get the baking soda?” Even the cold water trick is unreliable and works only for up to 10%. *Even still* local hot spots can still cause the solution to pop and spit if you aren’t vigorously stirring.
Im pretty sure she mixed up some other stuff with it and is now complaining about the product that had the most scary ingredient listed on it. In my experience, most of the times this shit happens it's because people decide to mix random stuff because extra cleaning products = cleaner. That being said it might be what others have said and she just added too much of it and the water boiled up.
I don't know what happened but I'm 1000% sure her skin didn't melt which causes me to doubt the rest of the story
Hot enough liquid can make skin *slough*. I wouldn't expect a third hand anecdote to accurately describe whatever trauma supposedly happened. I could see her having a stuck toilet and just adding reagents until things went awful. People are stupid, a broken toilet is distressing to a lot of people. I could definitely see a clogged toilet turned into a shredded Al foil + drano + agitation nightmare.
[удалено]
Potassium metal and potassium hydroxide have very different properties.
I'm assuming it's a liquid product, not a powdered product? A liquid product containing sodium hydroxide, especially one sold for domestic/commercial use, won't release sufficient heat via mixing to cause a superheat "explosion" - so a possible explanation is that, prior to using the alkaline product, she (or someone else) used a highly acidic product to clean the toilet. A number of "plumber's helper" type products are basically just concentrated sulphuric acid (stupid idea, but there you go) - so if she poured the alkaline material down straight after the "plumber's helper" then a superheat "explosion" may be possible. If it was a powdered product - then possibilities exist. Once again, mixing with a strong acid is one possibility. Also, if it's a "Draino" type product (which has incorporated aluminium shavings in the blend) then release of hydrogen during the reaction could be a possibility (the customer wasn't smoking or threw a cig butt into the toilet, did they?) Of course, it's all speculation, and if there's one thing I can almost guarantee - the customer will never give you the full story.
Somebody didn’t follow the directions on the bottle.
Someone didn't purge the last three things thrown down the stopped toilet.
Mods please
what happened
You're not supposed to put drain cleaner in the toilet for that reason.
Taco bell
I think there’s information missing. Very doubtful NaOH alone could cause this situation.
Sodium hydroxide is plenty capable of rapidly and violently boiling water with just its heat of dissolution. That's probably what happened.
probably some type of acidic cleaner. acid + base usually equals reaction
Can confirm. Was neutralizing waste at work and someone mislabled a container of 93% sulfuric as waste and it got added in with other waste containers waiting to be neutralized. Usually add 50mL of 50% NaOH to container just to get the pH up a bit since its all generally a bit acidic. That thing SPEWED heat and acid. Thank god for PPE and fume hoods.
damn that sounded scary :(
Straight up sodium *metal* explodes when immersed in water. Sodium hydride (NaH) may too for all I know. But for sodium *hydroxide* (NaOH), “explode” is a gross exaggeration at best. It does react exothermically, but does not “explode”, though it *could* “pop” at you if you put it in water that’s already hot to begin with. (Source: personal experience) But as for your situation, I have no clue why NaOH would explode like that. Whatever made it explode, I do NOT believe it was the water.
NaOH on its own doesn't do that. However, seeing how it's a product most likely intended as a drain cleaner, there's a chance it's mixed with aluminium powder, and if that shit gets wet, the NaOH will violently attack the aluminium, which generates a bunch of hydrogen gas. If it's in a sealed container, the pressure build up will eventually make it blow up.
There is one possibility which most replies don't seem to have touched on. Is it possible that the container somehow became pressurized, such that when the lid was released it caused a violent ejection? It wouldn't be a violent reaction per se but a build up of gases before the bottle was opened. That would be quite easy to do and could explain why the sodium hydroxide ended up on the ceiling. Eg. You get some aluminum in the bottle or something else inside which reacts to form a gas, cap it, and then at some point in the future, shake and open. I've had a similar thing happen when I've opened tightly sealed bottles containing volatile liquids in a hot lab. I wouldn't personally call it an explosion, but if someone were to be hyperbolic, I guess that is one way to describe it... Lol
She likely did not read the instructions. Drain cleaners are some of the strongest household chemicals, and people dont have respect for those. People are more concerned with «chemicals» in food packaging than with drain cleaner.
Maybe it was NaOH drain Cleaner premixed with Aluminium granulate.if it was not properly closed and protected against wetness, the water could have started the production of Hydrogen. The heat from this reaction might have been enough to ignite the gas an cause an explosion.
If you want it really strong, ice might be the answer.
[удалено]
Sodium metal is not equivalent to sodium hydroxide. Sodium hydroxide will not lose its OH group and just turn into sodium metal.
Shii ur right my bad, highly exothermic reaction either way