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Good point. Mob mentality like this inevitably escalates, and the goalpost for what is a "fireable offense" can move further down the road. This is nothing more than "Somebody hurt my feelings, and I want there to be a huge punishment for it."
It's just not a sustainable way for a society to be. Too much room for false accusations from bad actors.
Yes. Saying racist things on a chess site in a private message is basically just hurting someone's feelings. Unless you want to demonstrate how else OP was damaged. Take as long as you like.
Go ahead and put some more words in my mouth by way of straw man. You seem to be very accomplished at it. There \*was\* a punishment. The player account was banned from the site.
The only thing we are debating is the appropriate level of punishment for words on a site completely unrelated to dude's work. You seem to think that the appropriate level is denying the dude a means to make an income, which necessitates that his family, if any, is ALSO punished, possibly losing their home, etc. Plus any other unforseen problems this causes, that you can't POSSIBLY predict. Perhaps he is renting and his little old lady landlord is out a few thousand dollars cuz she can't find another renter for a few months. That sound good to you? Over some insults sent via PM?
If this doesn't give you pause in your initial, knee-jerk reaction, then there is probably not much hope of me ever convincing you to use any critical thinking skills, and it becomes evident this is about retribution, and the thrill of the power of punishing someone. Let's hope there is absolutely nothing in your past that might come back to haunt you and jeopardize your current employment, if anyone at work found out.
Cuz your boss might have a different idea of an appropriate level of punishment for something you did totally unrelated to your work. Perhaps you like to smoke a little weed, and you are not in a state where it is legalized, so he figures since you did something actually ILLEGAL, that you \*might\* cause a problem for the company at some point. We all know that you are a perfect person. Where should I send the application for your sainthood?
You don't seem to recognize the potential for this to be an extremely slippery slope, where you are subject to the whims of another person, above beyond what is actually legal or not.
I have been quite clear dude is a racist POS, who, if he had done that rant at work, either verbally or electronically, should have been fired immediately. But, here's the thing. He didn't, and what he did was not illegal, as he was not in a position to discriminate against anyone. You wanna argue that saying things that are not illegal, and do not affect a business, \*should\* be justification to fire a person, and have the rest of us paying unemployment for them, and then later food stamps when their new minimum wage job is not enough to support the family? Have at it. I am sure you have thought all this out thoroughly, and you are not just engaging with the general mob mentality. Let's hear it.
I am sure you'll respond with some inane, ill thought out response about how "There must be consequences!", blah blah blah. The point is, there WAS consequences. You just want there to be worse consequences. Others are perfectly within their rights to say you are a little unbalanced if you think a person losing their job is appropriate in this case.
It is also funny how he thinks when some company has a "diversity commitment" it counts anything. If this dude is good and they do not need a reason to fire him, he will not be fired. It is always business first, really no management really cares about diversity when it counts, especially when it is a larger company.
And then OP makes some weird edit, how he thinks he knows how the world works and it would be a PR disaster. As if anyone at this company or the public would care about him (if the accused person is not the CEO or someone else from the leadership team)
This same thing came up in the thread about the OTB cheating thing in Chicago, and multiple people insisted that it was slam dunk that they were gonna get that dude fired. I told them they were delusional, because this guy was a professor at a college, and would deny that he cheated... IF they DID fire him over something as stupid as "accusations" of cheating at a chess tournament, he would sue them so quickly, and win so easily, it would make their head spin. He knows that, and the college HR folks know that, so the most obvious result of their wasted time in reporting him to the college would be, they would accept the email/links, thank them for their time, and then quickly hit the delete button.
These people just don't get that the only way people get fired for ethics violations are the following:
1. They cost the company money in some way.
2. They cause direct embarrassment to the company, AND that embarrassment is public.
3. The person is already doing a poor job or causing problems on the job, and they are looking for an excuse.
Note to everybody in this thread: Likely none of these apply. So, I am arguing against pursuing this dude through his job not only from the perspective of it being excessive, but also because it is pointless. They will never get this dude fired.
Addressed to OP's edit:
he would probably not get fired unless he has a past of saying racist things at work. At worst he would likely get a slap on the wrist and keep his job. At best HR would write you back and tell you it's none of their business what he does in his personal life. It would hardly be a PR disaster because the public wouldn't know. Are you planning to call channel 7 news so they can run the Headline "Employee of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Said Racist Things On A Chess Website"? Because he isn't anyone famous he can absolutely get away with it. There are a ton of racist people with jobs and it's not because no one has noticed.
not sure why people are saying “too far”
However the fact that you “dropped 100 ELO” due to it and spent the time to search for this man’s life is a bit obsessive. So I would look inward as well. But if someone is going to act like that to others online they should be prepared for consequences
Like getting banned from the site where he committed the offense?
See, the thing is.... How much of a price "in real life" to pay for some bad behavior online that in the end, does not end up physically hurting anybody, is what is up for debate here.
This sort of reminds me of that old Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where Wesley is playing ball with some humanoid aliens, doesn't see the "Stay off the Grass" sign, and accidentally crushes a rosebush or something. The aliens hand down a death sentence because that's just how they dooz it. It starts a whole big thing, and jeopardizes the Federation's efforts to open up diplomatic relations with this planet, if they refuse to let the aliens carry out the death sentence.
Now... You MAY say that this is hyperbole, and putting an EXTREME example out there, and comparing it to this situation... Well... To me, personal and private lives should be kept separate, and looking to get someone fired for talking sh!t online is every bit as excessive as a death sentence for messing up a rosebush. It's a whole different thing for celebrities and people in the public eye, because there are financial/leadership concerns at play. Celebrity hurts sponsors if they go on a racist rant on public TV/radio, and a politician who does this same calls into question whether they are going to support ethnic voters to the same degree.
Some dude going off the rails on a chess website is not quite up to that standard though, JMHO. And one might want to take a close look at a society built on that level of consequences built on the premise that you can hunt through a person's social media for ammunition if they p!ss you off in some way, and get them fired. This assumes the person even knows what they are doing in their research. No possible way that could go bad though, eh? Not like people have used people's run trackers to falsely accuse them of being a rapist because they happened to be on a run somewhere at the same time a rape occurred in the area, and ended up ruining an innocent person's life. Nope. Stuff like that never happens when compulsive people get a bee in their bonnet online.
Now.. I am not saying this racist dude is "innocent". I AM saying there needs to be limits in how we punish online misbehavior, to protect the fringe cases. It is super easy to engage in mob mentality, and we REALLY don't want to go there, because inevitably, mistakes are made when we encourage that.
I don't like how multiple times you've likened racist invective to 'talking shit', 'being a dick', etc.
Being racist to someone is not merely 'talking shit'.
I will take that non-response as you implicitly standing behind making that equivalence. being a racist is 'talking shit' to you
just like sexual harassment is brushed off as 'locker room talk', same energy
Yeah, either it is that, or I just don't take your viewpoint seriously enough to make anything other than a joke response.
And there's a big difference between sexual harassment (which generally is in person and direct), and racist messaging on a private site. See, there's this funny thing about American law... Sexual harassment.. Is against the law. Being racist.. Isn't. Now, I am not saying that in any way to SUPPORT his racist tripe, but that IS the reality.
So... If a person sexually harasses someone else, cops get called, and action will be taken. If a person calls a person a racist name, then that is "freedom of speech".
Do I agree with it? No. I happen to think that "freedom of speech" is used to justify a lot of crappy behavior in America. But I ALSO am aware that people have a lot of crappy beliefs, and use them to justify treating each other badly, but for better or worse, that IS the law, and no amount of reddit handwringing is gonna change that.
If he went on a racist rant at work, I 100%, fully support him being fired on the spot. Because that directly affects the workplace environment in a way a racist rant on some site completely unrelated to the business doesn't.
But I think you are absolutely deluded if you think this dude's work is gonna fire him for a racist rant on some website/app. But I also see the downsides of supporting the "idea" of firing him for something he did outside of work, that is not technically illegal, because I work in I.T. Security, and know it is just way too easy to use someone's internet history.. Almost ANY person's internet history, against their personal career. Especially if you are technically savvy, and knowledgeable enough to make things look a lot worse than they are. It is just a BAD practice from a societal perspective to support targeting people at work for what they do in their private time.
Not necessarily sure that an online rant in a DM is worth fucking over a guy's (and his family's) career and livelihood tbh.
The guy lost his 3000+ game chess account. Sounds like it's been handled already. - Going further by stalking the guy online, and wanting to write to his HR department seems creepy tbh.
Sure, if you are completely comfortable with ruining his family's lives as well, because he was mean to you on a chess website.
Honestly, I think your stalking behavior is a bad sign for YOU, as well. People are sh!tty online, but that doesn't mean they go on lynching parties on the weekend. The fact that you took some ignorant jackarse seriously enough to go stalking him on social media pretty much means he accomplished what he was setting out to do, which was to disturb you mentally.
I would chuckle at someone who went on some rant against me, and not even let it ruin my day. I might even play 100 Elo better for the rest of the session out of the sheer joy of my win over a person sending them that far off the deep end. I love to see people crack under pressure I applied, in any competitive pursuit. It's one of my greatest joys in life. I would probably have even engaged with his rant and trolled him a bit, to REALLY p!ss him off with how little his rant affected me. People like that HATE this with a white hot passion. I mean, to be honest, I prolly add them as a friend to keep trolling them.
I mean... What could possibly be better than making a person like that completely lose their mind over a game?
Half the time I think these assholes don’t actually care about the person’s race as much as they are just looking for something, anything to upset them. I’m not sure it’s racism as much as it is just generally vitriolic behaviour. I don’t think they should get a slap on the wrist, but this attitude of threatening someone’s livelihood because they tilted and tried to insult someone they don’t know online is pretty fragile.
I’m definitely more disgusted by the ’victim’ than I am of the troll here. Both are demonstrating pretty gross behaviour.
I've always found it to be great fun to show the trolls how simple and transparent their tactics are, and that I think it is actually funny. Trolls are generally people of fairly low intelligence as it is, and I have found it to really make them even angrier when I make fun of them in an intellectual manner that they "can't quite understand".
I agree though. OP seems very fragile.
Hmmm.. I doubt he is, but the idea that America doesn't need to take a CLOSE look at law enforcement, is something only a hopelessly indoctrinated lemming can buy into. Ethnic folks in America have been screaming for decades that they are being intentionally targeted by police for harassment, and you have situations like Baltimore where a person "accused" of a crime is taken for a "rough ride" in the back of a police van, and comes out of it with brain damage, and folks like yourself eat up like pie the idea that our police are all perfectly well behaved, and nothing needs to change.
You assume they are just lying, and making up stories for... "reasons". It probably never even occurred to you they might be telling the truth? Nahhhhhhhh. That's impossible, amiright? There's zero possibility that you think otherwise because you have been trained to by talking heads on TV with their own agenda.
Come on, prove to me how open minded you are in your response. Doooooo eeeetttt!
Perhaps you should consider the possibility that you shouldn't follow talking heads on TV so much, and entertain the possibility that police in general have too much power, and too little oversight in America. There's no chain of command over all police forces in America, which basically leaves each municipality up to the enforcement whims of their individual police leaders.
I am an American living in Germany, and I can tell you that we don't have many of the social problems, and racial tensions, like in America. One of the reasons? Cops don't pull people over for speeding tickets, is a big one. In America, this is often used as an excuse to target specific demographics to "Pump those arrest numbers up, son! Those are rookie numbers!"
Germany doesn't have the same racial history as the US though, it's not really a fair comparison. In the US racial minorities do on average commit more crimes because they are on average poorer because the southern states (mostly) screwed them over after the civil war.
I will agree to most of this. With the proviso that they kind of tried to eliminate everybody who was not a blue-eyed, brown/blonde haired German at one point, across much of Europe.
And I will caution about this particular statement - ". In the US racial minorities do on average **commit** more crimes"
Actually.. They get "convicted" of more crimes. That is an important distinction. Because of how our legal system is set up, it is inherently easier to both arrest, and convict a person who has to rely on public defenders, and is facing juries predisposed to find them guilty. This creates situations where the prosecutor knows they can offer a plea bargain with full knowledge that the minority defendant might be forced to accept, rather than face a much longer prison sentence. And cops will be predisposed to target suspects they know are most likely to get convicted. Prosecutors tend to advance in their jobs via successful convictions, and cops by arrests that result in successful convictions. This creates an environment where both target those easiest to convict, not necessarily those who commit the crime. Blacks just happen to be the easiest minority to convict. That "might" explain why they are the biggest population in American prisons, but yet crime does not go down in direct correlation to prison population size. Just an idea. Not saying it is 100% correct.
I am not saying racial minorities don't "commit" more crime on average due to being poor, but I also don't believe all the minorities in prison committed the crimes they were convicted of/plea bargained.
And the thing is.. Why are minorities poorer? At least the ones born and raised in America? It is a known fact that ethnic names tend to get you less interviews. For the "Well, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" crowd, it is also known that despite laws against redlining, it is harder to get a home/business loan as a minority in America, as opposed to a white person in similar economic circumstances. If minorities can't get as many good jobs, and can't get a home or business loan at a decent rate (if at all), then how exactly are they supposed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, again? Start a roadside stand?
redlining then and now is mostly the reason minorities are poor. You just got released from slavery yay, but now you have no possessions and you are stuck near a bunch of rich white people who hate you and need laborers for their farms. So all the ex-slaves became share-croppers and their economic situation didn't really improve, combine that with a century of racist laws and against-the-law redlining and you've got the perfect recipe for generationally poor families
Didn't particularly help that when American Blacks DID in fact, "pull themselves up by their bootsraps", it was all burnt down by white supremacists.... I wonder how much generational wealth was wiped out in this one instance?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa\_race\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre)
Bro are you ok? I asked that other clown that question because I assume his attitude about vengeance being so bad would obviously expend to the US justice system and the way it deals with transgressions.
Ahhh, see.. NOW we are getting somewhere. Funny you mentioned "black" people, as I made no mention of that, and specifically mentioned "ethnic" persons. Hmm.. I wonder why you would single out blacks? "Very interesting", as Kramnik might say. I am not saying there is specific racial bias against a certain group on your part, but it is "interesting".
And for the record...
Percentage of Americans who are "non-white" - 42%
Percentage of Germans who are "non-white" - 30%
Not a huge difference, when you really consider it.. Except for the fact that the vast majority of U.S.-born African Americans are descended from slaves. Not so much with Afro Germans.
The difference between America and Germany is that Germany FULLY owns the sins of it's past, and there is an effort from politicians on down to "everyman" not to repeat the mistakes it made in the past. WWII documentaries putting on full display the crimes of the Nazis are a regular thing on television here. And Germans watch them. My town of residence has placards of Jews taken by the Nazis, alongside names of soldiers from the area who died in WWII. German doesn't try to squash it's past. So much of German culture is centered around acceptance of "others", and not just swallowing up propaganda aimed to divide, as the German populace is well aware of the dangers of doing so. Germans in general are VERY suspicious of populist politicians who try to foment anti-immigrant sentiment.
That is a lesson that America has yet to learn. Many in America would like to pretend that the racism of the 1960s and before magically "went away". But, it hasn't. You might want to look into "redlining". Here is a link I am sure you will not read into, as you seem to be very sure of your opinions.
[https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/redlining](https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/redlining)
Here is another "interesting" article on redlining...
[https://preissco.com/mystery-shoppers-expose-alleged-redlining-at-bancorpsouth/](https://preissco.com/mystery-shoppers-expose-alleged-redlining-at-bancorpsouth/)
Here is an excerpt of what Bancorp got fined for -
BancorpSouth Bank, headquartered in Tupelo, Miss., is accused of:
* Structuring their lending area to avoid and/or discourage mortgage applications from consumers in minority areas (also known as “redlining”).
* Charging higher annual percentage rates to African-American customers than non-Hispanic white borrowers with similar loan qualifications.
* Implementing an explicitly discriminatory policy of denying “protected class” applicants and denying credit assistance based on race.
Racism is alive and well in America, it's just more undercover. Stuff like real estate agents dissuading Africa Americans with money from moving into certain neighborhoods, because it might influence the housing prices in the real estate agent's "bread and butter" neighborhoods. A young black man in a nice car doing 5 under the speed limit getting stopped by a SC highway patrolman and getting asked 20 questions about where he works, what he does for a living, where he is going, etc. (Hint.. He was being racially profiled as a drug mule driving under the speed limit in a late model car to reduce the chance of getting stopped by police..)
The data/stories are all out there, for anyone interested in doing a 5 minute google search. I know more than most the problems with racism in America, as I actually resist swallowing up all the "racism is dun dead and buried" propaganda, and do my own research, and listen to my black friends about what they have to deal with.
Which makes it even more annoying that I am catching it from both sides in this thread, because I don't think ignorance outside of work should automatically equal this guy getting fired.
again not really a fair comparison, America does own it's slavery past with the nice little "we fought a war over it see we care a lot about racism." Also germany is forced to own it's nazi past, it was occupied for years after WWII with it's government being an allied run military dictatorship. You could argue the North imposed rule onto the south after the civil war but they still got away with jim crow laws so not really
The North did not effectively "impose rule on the South" after the Civil War. They relaxed enforcement of many rules during the "Reconstruction" period in order to not antagonize Southern racists, to avoid a second civil war. This relaxing of enforcement is what "caused" Jim Crow laws in the first. Southern states actually elected many black representatives post Civil War during the period when the 15th Amendment was being enforced by the Northern forces, as blacks were able to vote and came out in large numbers. Jim Crow laws and a systemic disenfranchisement of black voters due to the relaxing of Northern enforcement is what led to much of the racist violence from the post Civil War era all the way into the 1960s. Just FYI. There was a short time of many black representatives getting elected, and then it quickly went back to mainly white male representatives as a result of said lack of enforcement.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement\_after\_the\_Reconstruction\_era](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement_after_the_Reconstruction_era)
And while I do very much believe on the Southern side that the Civil War was very much fought, at least from the political level, to maintain slavery, as it was at that time the cornerstone of the Southern economy, on the Northern part, it was not really fought in the beginning to abolish slavery. It was fought to preserve the Union. That was something that came later when Lincoln realized that if slavery was allowed to continue, another Civil War was inevitable, as most of the civilized world outside of America had already abolished slavery at that point, and America retaining slavery was causing much international political issues. To the point where other countries were considering not purchasing slave-produced goods, and were looking for alternate supply chains. He got massive pressure from even his own Republican party to accept the Southern states back into the Union if they were allowed to maintain slavery, just to stop the war.
And I don't see how Germany is "currently" forced to do anything. They haven't been under an Allied military dictatorship for half a century. Nothing is keeping them from simply cutting funding for the airing of the WWII documentaries. It is a conscious choice of the government and other entities, and has full buyin from the public.
Germany is 85% ethnic German and far less diverse than the US. It's easy to brag about a lack of racism in a country when that country is a mono-culture.
I brought up black people in America because they suffer most from discrimination. The racist tension between blacks and whites dates to the founding, making it especially germane to the conversation.
Maybe you're getting it from "both sides" because you have a condescending lecture-style tone, laughably informed by Googling and your black friends (the existence of which proves your enlightenment).
No, we are saying engaging in obsessive, mob mentality over something "relatively" minor, to the extent of getting someone fired, is not healthy for a society as a whole. Full stop. Getting someone fired for something that caused no physical harm, and did not impact their job, is a slippery slope. The goalposts can move, and a decade or two down the road, the offenses we can justify firing to ourselves for can get lesser and lesser. And beyond that, if we convince ourselves that firing is an appropriate punishment for such societal infractions, it becomes pretty easy to target people we don't like, and "cherrypick" comments out of context, and eventually, inevitably, mistakes are made. The sort of mistakes people don't recover from.
Sure, the guy is a POS. But you go down this road, and it doesn't stop with racism. Mob mentality ALWAYS escalates, until at some point, you no longer recognize the society. We're already pretty far down that road in America as it is. It can literally get much worse, until people get falsely accused, lose their job, and it ends up costing them (and their families) everything.
To be honest.. Your thinking seems a little bit simplistic. You don't see the societal problems that can inevitably arise from engaging in such retribution type behavior, and you are not enough of a student of history to see where that has led before. Malicious politicians prey on people like you, that just don't think too deeply into bigger issues.
You can't "get somebody fired" unless you're their boss and you're going to hr. All OP can do it seems some information to other people. It's the company who does the firing. They have that right, do they not?
>No, we are saying engaging in obsessive, mob mentality over something "relatively" minor, to the extent of getting someone fired, is not healthy for a society as a whole.
Racism = good for society
Negative consequences from racism = bad for society (racism is minor)
You was typing this with a pointy hood on, weren't you?
nobody said that. we believe that getting fired is not an appropriate punishment for minor online racism (major racism would be actual actions such as lynching)
> (major racism would be actual actions such as lynching)
Lmao this is one of the biggest problems in the US. Most people don't want to acknowledge anything less than lynching as actual problems (and ofc it's harsh but fair for someone to be fired for lynching!)
You all are basically the digital KKK, only instead of white hoods you hide your intentions behind a bunch of bullshit excuses.
what? I said lynching is an example of major racism and saying "indian dog" online is minor racism. How then do you extrapolate that i don't care about racism that isn't major? It's not illegal but it's still definitely wrong. Why do you assume that because i gave it the title major I dismiss the minor form?
Well, obviously you are not debating in good faith, as I am pretty sure you know exactly where I stand on this, and you are being intentionally dense about it pretending like you don't understand, or you actually don't have the ability to read what I am saying and understand it.
I will repeat it again, nice and simple, in hopes you make an effort. I abhor racism in all it's forms, and if the dude had went on said racist rant in the workplace, I 100% support firing him on the spot. I ALSO believe it is a bad precedent to fire a person for behavior outside the workplace, when that behavior is both not illegal, and has no direct impact on the business, because goalposts can move on what is a fireable offense. People are herd animals who don't think through all possible future ramifications of policies like that. An individual person may be smart, but people as a general rule, in groups, are ignorant. As evidenced by January 6th.
But let's just run with your stance, for a second.. What exactly do you think will be accomplished by the firing of this person? What... Will he stop being racist? You think the other racists out there are gonna "stop" being racist when they (somehow) hear the story of this dude getting fired? And then.. Is dude gonna sit back and reflect on his life, and turn over a new leaf? Or does he sit and stew in his new minimum wage job, and blame it on all those ethnic people for "costing him his job", then he loses his sh!t one day and goes and shoots up an African American church? But nah yeah nah... No chance of anything like that happening, huh brocephus? Speaking of his new minimum wage job... Does he deserve that much? Or do we hound him on the next job and get him fired from that one too? Relegate him to selling oranges on the side of the road? Do you foresee ANY negative consequences of that course of action?
Being against racism, supportin his total ban from the platform where he committed the racist rant, and also being against firing a person for racist behavior in a venue that is not likely to ever reflect badly on an employer, is an example of a nuanced viewpoint. There are any number on unintended consequences that can arise from taking such a heavy handed approach. If everyone in America who was a closet racist was found out and fired, you cannot imagine the chaos that would bring.
The only way to move forward from our racist past (and present) is to encourage more inclusive thinking, and wait for the racists to all die of old age. Retribution is not, and never has been, the solution.
>If everyone in America who was a closet racist was found out and fired, you cannot imagine the chaos that would bring.
Lol yeah man, we gotta accept racism for the good of the nation. Because imagine if we actually found out about all those pesky racists! (ignore the people who are harmed by racism, they don't matter).
>The only way to move forward from our racist past (and present) is to encourage more inclusive thinking, and wait for the racists to all die of old age. Retribution is not, and never has been, the solution.
Lmao "the only way to move from our racist past, is to let all the racists be" fuck off with this nonsense.
The only "nuance" coming from you is how nuanced your efforts to defend racism are. You've blamed everything but the actual racists or any systemic issues.
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Don’t listen to these replies, OP. You should definitely do it. People are clutching their pearls while saying “just over a chess match??”, but we know that it’s not about the game - it’s about his behavior
Sounds a little bit dramatic no offence. In the heat of the moment sure. The day after and you can't play good chess because it's affected you that badly? I would try and stay off the Internet if people can get to you that easily. Or just turn the chat off wherever possible. People are always gonna say offensive shit online. No point getting bogged down by it all.
Going as far to stalk the guy and find out his twitter and LinkedIn is a bit weird. Do you try and stalk everyone who has ever shittalked you online? Would ruining the guys job and potentially life be a worthy trade for you over a couple mean comments? I'm by no means defending what he said, by all accounts he sounds like a proper ass, but trying to ruin his life? Too far.
No one forced him to go on a racist rant let him face the consequences of his own actions. The people defending this just don't give a fuck about what you faced and probably feel more empathy towards the perpetrator lol reminds me of "I Can Excuse Racism, But I Draw The Line At Animal Cruelty".
Ruin his life it makes you feel better it's on him at the end of the day
That’s a fair point because there’s a tendency of people to use/steal photos of others. If more account details match, then it really probably is the same guy.
And if it is the same guy, I wouldn’t mind if he was in a position to face consequences. I feel like you always hear these stories about old bigoted twitter comments by pro athletes and they tend to go on with their careers. Maybe normal people would face more consequences but I kind of doubt the guy would get fired. However, he might be forced to reflect on his actions which would be a good thing.
acting out of spite is never a good idea, you can either think inward like alot of people said or think of how you can make this person be a better man. maybe send him this paper and tell him the story over an email.
i think it will bring the most good out of this situation and you will get the closure that you need.
What's worse...
(a) someone spouting racial slurs in an online chess game that could easily have been avoided by blocking chat
(b) someone trying to get someone's life destroyed
I'd vote b. And if you succeed in it, you should be ashamed of yourself. Don't get me wrong, I don't think (a) is acceptable either, but a ban of the account is enough imo.
I'm an Indian and I face a bit of racism here and there on chess.com ( especially when they are losing) but I'd never go as far to destroy their personal life. Only gives them more reason to hate me.
What you did is too extreme man.
Well more like for r/AmItheAsshole (the answer would be yes). You basically stalk this guy on his socials and now denounce him and feel superior because "you can decide if he loses his job or not".
First of all, I doubt they would fire someone, just because some crazy dude (probably even from a different country) badmouth some employee and sends crazy long emails to the head of HR.
Second, if such an encounter makes you drop 100 ELO points in the following few days, you either have an issue taking responsibility for your flaws or some other problems.
Third, [chess.com](http://chess.com) took action and it is not up to you to do vigilantism. If it really bothers you, go to the police and they will take action. I even doubt that is completely legal what you are now trying to do.
And lastly, how would you now feel if some dudes figures out your identity and badmouths you at your employer or university?
Such a behavior should be banable on [chess.com](http://chess.com) as well. You are just some mentally unstable dude with a superior complex.
Edit: Lol you even posted that on r/AITAH, how funny, this makes me feel quite good that I was spot on with that XD
What has that to do with racism. What I meant is like if someone would send some weird email about to the HR from another corner from the world (especially when they do not business there) it would either end up straight in spam or not even opened. I mean what do they expect anything than fishing from that email.
Nobody is "defending" the racism. Nice straw man. We are telling OP he is letting some troll online affect his own mental health, and basically saying that pretty much everybody in the world would be unemployed if we got everybody fired for their worst moment. And that people are d!cks sometimes in the heat of competition, especially if the competition in on some random site that has no real bearing on the work they might do professionally. I work in I.T. Security, and some people are tools in their personal lives, but that doesn't make the work they do on the job any less important.
It is a very slippery slope to go looking to hurt people professionally for things they do in their personal lives. You never know the cascade affect that can have, for what is essentially "hurting someone's feelings online". Entire dystopian books have been written about societies where those in power seek to control behavior across the entire spectrum of the society, and how vindictive people within that society use that to attack people they don't like. If you encourage this sort of retribution, you open the door for people to abuse it maliciously.
And as a general rule, firing someone for some things they did or said in their personal lives open up the company for massive lawsuits if there was no direct financial damage to the company and no impact to job performance, so this whole thread is misguided from that perspective as well. In addition to the negative psychological impact to OP from dwelling on it. Folks can literally go crazy engaging with trolls online and letting it affect their psyche.
>Nobody is "defending" the racism.
Your whole post is defending racism. You downplay it as just being a dick in competition, you talk about vindictive people attacking people they don't like, say it's just hurting people's feelings online, entirely downplaying or trying to divert attention away from the fact that this is a clear case of racism. And then blaming OP for being upset, instead of blaming the actual racist.
Also you're entirely wrong about that last part at least most places in the US since it's at-will employment. Unless it's for some protected class (and as much as you may wish it was the case, being a racist isn't a protected class), you can basically be fired for whatever.
Honestly, YOU'RE exactly the person I was talking about-people happy to do whatever they can to normalize and defend clear racism because they either have racist views themselves or participate in racist behaviors. Just trying to divert attention and give cover. Honestly it's really shameful, and hopefully one day you reflect on your shitty attitude and become a better person. Good luck.
>And then blaming OP for being upset
He's stalking the guy online and trying to destroy his life, over a couple comments on a chess website.
>!“Rematch then!<
>!Asian dog!<
>!we will deport you npnp”!<
Are those comments bad? sure. The guy definitely deserves a ban from the website.
Are they so bad that you're gonna be thrown off for days afterwards, and then put the effort in to tracking his employer down? Not if you're even remotely well adjusted.
OPs a damn near sociopath if he thinks getting the guy fired is an appropriate response.
As a poc of color, talking shit online is really not justifiable reason to take away their life. They could have been on tilt and said some stupid stuff. They could very well be a racist. It's hard to judge since you left the specific details of what they said.
Most times comments like these are just to be dismissed. It's online on a platform where you can disable chat. It's not really something to go out of your way to try to take away their income for.
If that's what you want, so be it. Just know that someone's income is gone because they said some stuff while playing a board game.
Kinda disgusted at the comments saying "it's too far" and calling it "just a couple of mean comments" "trying to ruin his life".... Why are we suddenly concerned about the racist having a comfy life all of a sudden? Besides the comments making it all about themselves when they prolly live the most privileged life.
OP you are doing nothing wrong. Now, would I have done the same? No, I would've let it slide. But it's not up to me to dictate to what extent you must be offended, since I have never faced racism like that.
However, I would recommend turning off the chat on chess.com. And looking inwards about how much people's words affect you. Since you've already done the hard work, it's up to you to decide if you want to send the mail, but later in similar situations, try to ignore those f-ckers.
My reasoning for ignoring isn't - 'Oh why are you ruining the life of a hard working and devout **racist??!**'
It's for your own mental health and your own time. **You are not Batman.** You don't have to do the vigilantism. And frankly, you shouldn't give them the attention or mental space as much as you have allotted.
You aren't a bad person, or an asshole as the comments here suggest, cheers and play chess.
> Kinda disgusted at the comments saying "it's too far" and calling it "just a couple of mean comments" "trying to ruin his life".... Why are we suddenly concerned about the racist having a comfy life all of a sudden? Besides the comments making it all about themselves when they prolly live the most privileged life.
seriously, this thread is fucking crazy. did it get brigaded or what.
>Why are we suddenly concerned about the racist having a comfy life all of a sudden?
Because fucked up individuals are still human, and don't deserve to have their entire life ruined over a few DMs on a website.
I see more compassion for violent felons than someone who said some (frankly tame, in the scheme of racism) comments on a fucking chess website...
Sure, might as well send it. We all know how the internet works. If that person is comfortable posting racist stuff on chesscom and twitter, then surely they’re comfortable with an employer seeing it.
I’d admittedly be surprised if it amounts to anything, but you can try.
I understand why you would be upset, but ask yourself what you are trying to achieve. Are you trying to punish him because he was racist towards you? Do you think this will make him any less racist? In my opinion, it seems a little neurotic and indeed vengeful to destroy somebody's livelihood over insults. Maybe he was having a really bad day? Like countless CSGO and COD players have said things many magnitudes times worse but I wouldn't try to get them fired from their jobs because of that. This reads like a satire and I really hope it is, because I think you shouldn't cancel somebody over something like this. I'm glad you held them accountable but this is going too far imo
Not at all, but I've faced verbal abuse in chat on many occasions. However, I don't go out of my way to cancel somebody when they are racist and mean to me because they're a sore loser that got really upset or can't control their anger. I report them, forget about it, and move on. Maybe I'm just a bigot enabler but I don't think this justifies the much greater act of trying to get somebody fired from their job
Generally, I try to be charitable when I get verbal abuse online by considering other factors. Maybe he was drunk? Maybe somebody puked on him at work, idk? However, l do agree with you. That does not excuse his racial abuse in chat, and I think it's good that Chess.com stepped in and banned him for his poor behavior to maintain a safe environment for the community. On the other hand, I don't think the transgression is so bad that it warrants him being fired from his job
Edit: It's also possible that these types of people are only using race as a means to upset you; not because they actually believe those things. Again, doesn't make it excusable
>It's also possible that these types of people are only using race as a means to upset you; not because they actually believe those things.
Yeah that's still just a racist.
Also you folks are just shameful. Hikaru goes off after losing a tourney and people are ready to string him up, yet some racist fuck starts slinging slurs and everyone's all "well we need to be charitable and think of what his mindset may have been". Fuck that shit.
1. I was quite sympathetic to Hikaru on his outburst against Alireza. It was a heat of the moment thing after Alireza pulled the "I'm withdrawing" shenanigans.
2. This is a major distinction. Most people who criticized Hikaru weren't trying to get him banned off Twitch or fired from Chess.com. Some troll calls you an "Asian dog"; that's bad and racist behavior. When you go out of your way to try to get them fired from their job; I believe that reflects poorly on you as well.
> Can you believe, his accountancy firm has a statement on their front page about their commitment to diversity and inclusion, yet this accountant is a racist piece of shit online.
This is actually common practice. I and the other queer staff were simultaneously all was "laid off" for being trans and queer, and a few months later the company posted signage of diversity and inclusion. Sons of bitchs do what they want, and are very happy to pretend to market themselves as inclusive for the publicity but when it comes down to it, 99% of companies that pretend they are inclusive are overwhelmingly racist, homophobic, transphobic, or sexist.
>this sort of vindictive behavior is not appreciated in our country
Lmao I mean as a racist obviously you're dumb as dog shit, but vindictiveness is baked into the fabric of the country you buffoon.
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Just send it. Racism is no joke. And shame on whoever thinks this going to far or just destroying someones life due to a "small lip". Racism kills people everyday in every form.
The internet has desensitised me to hate speech so much that I didn't realise its quite serious. Do whatever you want I guess but I am quite concerned by how much time and energy of you are life you are spending on some online rando who isn't really worth it. like why go through so much trouble? Will you be doing this everytime someone is racist to you? It's simply unfeasible to be doing this everytime you meet a dickhead online. Reporting to chess.com? Yeah sure creates a safe space and is quite easy and simple. But going after them irl? Is it really worth your effort?
Also where do you draw the line? Or does it end at racism? Fuck the racist person but I am quite concerned about you and your mental state seems to be kinda fragile with how easily you are rattled?
Basically, I am asking, what's good for you?
My humble POV: if youre not doing this kind of investigative work for all racist comments you see online and then reporting them to their employers, then this is merely vindictive behavior.
And, what it shows is that you dont really care about anything else but to inflict some kind of reciprocal pain without considering the consequences to all those potentially innocent people who would be affected by this person being fired. And all of that, for words online. We’ve seen worse, and most people chalk it up to online bs wannabe internet tough person behavior. Most move on. But to take it so personally to the point of “investigating” someone so you can report them to their employer indicates some pretty strange behavior.
> I drafted an email to his head of HR with a 12-page annex of evidence proving his identity and screenshotting his racist rant. But is this going too far?
Revenge shouldn't factor into this. If you would do this to any internet racist, even if they hadn't targeted you, then go for it.
> His twitter contained a whole series of other racist comments.
If his Twitter really does contain that many racist comments, then your "annex of evidence" should be primarily based on what he's said in public (rather than in a private chess game). Don't make it personal when it doesn't need to be.
Yes.
But also be less insecure IRL.
His conversations had no expectations of privacy - they were made without your consent. Absolutely send them to his employer. Racist people should not be in positions of corporate power.
**Off-Topic submissions are not allowed.** Submissions should promote discussion on chess itself, its culture, or its history. Video or images not directly related to chess (even if they involve chess players) or discussion of non-chess events that happen on a chess site may be considered off-topic.
OP has 3 unread messages from Seneca
Why even bother … dragging around that negativity with you for days just for him to say „that’s fake“ and go on with his life
He would probably also go to his employer if he cheated XD
Good point. Mob mentality like this inevitably escalates, and the goalpost for what is a "fireable offense" can move further down the road. This is nothing more than "Somebody hurt my feelings, and I want there to be a huge punishment for it." It's just not a sustainable way for a society to be. Too much room for false accusations from bad actors.
racism = "hurt someones feeling" ? " 'i want there to be a huge punishment for it' " implies that racism shouldnt be punished ?
Yes. Saying racist things on a chess site in a private message is basically just hurting someone's feelings. Unless you want to demonstrate how else OP was damaged. Take as long as you like. Go ahead and put some more words in my mouth by way of straw man. You seem to be very accomplished at it. There \*was\* a punishment. The player account was banned from the site. The only thing we are debating is the appropriate level of punishment for words on a site completely unrelated to dude's work. You seem to think that the appropriate level is denying the dude a means to make an income, which necessitates that his family, if any, is ALSO punished, possibly losing their home, etc. Plus any other unforseen problems this causes, that you can't POSSIBLY predict. Perhaps he is renting and his little old lady landlord is out a few thousand dollars cuz she can't find another renter for a few months. That sound good to you? Over some insults sent via PM? If this doesn't give you pause in your initial, knee-jerk reaction, then there is probably not much hope of me ever convincing you to use any critical thinking skills, and it becomes evident this is about retribution, and the thrill of the power of punishing someone. Let's hope there is absolutely nothing in your past that might come back to haunt you and jeopardize your current employment, if anyone at work found out. Cuz your boss might have a different idea of an appropriate level of punishment for something you did totally unrelated to your work. Perhaps you like to smoke a little weed, and you are not in a state where it is legalized, so he figures since you did something actually ILLEGAL, that you \*might\* cause a problem for the company at some point. We all know that you are a perfect person. Where should I send the application for your sainthood? You don't seem to recognize the potential for this to be an extremely slippery slope, where you are subject to the whims of another person, above beyond what is actually legal or not. I have been quite clear dude is a racist POS, who, if he had done that rant at work, either verbally or electronically, should have been fired immediately. But, here's the thing. He didn't, and what he did was not illegal, as he was not in a position to discriminate against anyone. You wanna argue that saying things that are not illegal, and do not affect a business, \*should\* be justification to fire a person, and have the rest of us paying unemployment for them, and then later food stamps when their new minimum wage job is not enough to support the family? Have at it. I am sure you have thought all this out thoroughly, and you are not just engaging with the general mob mentality. Let's hear it. I am sure you'll respond with some inane, ill thought out response about how "There must be consequences!", blah blah blah. The point is, there WAS consequences. You just want there to be worse consequences. Others are perfectly within their rights to say you are a little unbalanced if you think a person losing their job is appropriate in this case.
It is also funny how he thinks when some company has a "diversity commitment" it counts anything. If this dude is good and they do not need a reason to fire him, he will not be fired. It is always business first, really no management really cares about diversity when it counts, especially when it is a larger company. And then OP makes some weird edit, how he thinks he knows how the world works and it would be a PR disaster. As if anyone at this company or the public would care about him (if the accused person is not the CEO or someone else from the leadership team)
This same thing came up in the thread about the OTB cheating thing in Chicago, and multiple people insisted that it was slam dunk that they were gonna get that dude fired. I told them they were delusional, because this guy was a professor at a college, and would deny that he cheated... IF they DID fire him over something as stupid as "accusations" of cheating at a chess tournament, he would sue them so quickly, and win so easily, it would make their head spin. He knows that, and the college HR folks know that, so the most obvious result of their wasted time in reporting him to the college would be, they would accept the email/links, thank them for their time, and then quickly hit the delete button. These people just don't get that the only way people get fired for ethics violations are the following: 1. They cost the company money in some way. 2. They cause direct embarrassment to the company, AND that embarrassment is public. 3. The person is already doing a poor job or causing problems on the job, and they are looking for an excuse. Note to everybody in this thread: Likely none of these apply. So, I am arguing against pursuing this dude through his job not only from the perspective of it being excessive, but also because it is pointless. They will never get this dude fired.
Addressed to OP's edit: he would probably not get fired unless he has a past of saying racist things at work. At worst he would likely get a slap on the wrist and keep his job. At best HR would write you back and tell you it's none of their business what he does in his personal life. It would hardly be a PR disaster because the public wouldn't know. Are you planning to call channel 7 news so they can run the Headline "Employee of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Said Racist Things On A Chess Website"? Because he isn't anyone famous he can absolutely get away with it. There are a ton of racist people with jobs and it's not because no one has noticed.
not sure why people are saying “too far” However the fact that you “dropped 100 ELO” due to it and spent the time to search for this man’s life is a bit obsessive. So I would look inward as well. But if someone is going to act like that to others online they should be prepared for consequences
Like getting banned from the site where he committed the offense? See, the thing is.... How much of a price "in real life" to pay for some bad behavior online that in the end, does not end up physically hurting anybody, is what is up for debate here. This sort of reminds me of that old Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where Wesley is playing ball with some humanoid aliens, doesn't see the "Stay off the Grass" sign, and accidentally crushes a rosebush or something. The aliens hand down a death sentence because that's just how they dooz it. It starts a whole big thing, and jeopardizes the Federation's efforts to open up diplomatic relations with this planet, if they refuse to let the aliens carry out the death sentence. Now... You MAY say that this is hyperbole, and putting an EXTREME example out there, and comparing it to this situation... Well... To me, personal and private lives should be kept separate, and looking to get someone fired for talking sh!t online is every bit as excessive as a death sentence for messing up a rosebush. It's a whole different thing for celebrities and people in the public eye, because there are financial/leadership concerns at play. Celebrity hurts sponsors if they go on a racist rant on public TV/radio, and a politician who does this same calls into question whether they are going to support ethnic voters to the same degree. Some dude going off the rails on a chess website is not quite up to that standard though, JMHO. And one might want to take a close look at a society built on that level of consequences built on the premise that you can hunt through a person's social media for ammunition if they p!ss you off in some way, and get them fired. This assumes the person even knows what they are doing in their research. No possible way that could go bad though, eh? Not like people have used people's run trackers to falsely accuse them of being a rapist because they happened to be on a run somewhere at the same time a rape occurred in the area, and ended up ruining an innocent person's life. Nope. Stuff like that never happens when compulsive people get a bee in their bonnet online. Now.. I am not saying this racist dude is "innocent". I AM saying there needs to be limits in how we punish online misbehavior, to protect the fringe cases. It is super easy to engage in mob mentality, and we REALLY don't want to go there, because inevitably, mistakes are made when we encourage that.
I don't like how multiple times you've likened racist invective to 'talking shit', 'being a dick', etc. Being racist to someone is not merely 'talking shit'.
Oh no! I said something you "don't like".... I certainly hope I don't get "fired" for that... :-)
I will take that non-response as you implicitly standing behind making that equivalence. being a racist is 'talking shit' to you just like sexual harassment is brushed off as 'locker room talk', same energy
Yeah, either it is that, or I just don't take your viewpoint seriously enough to make anything other than a joke response. And there's a big difference between sexual harassment (which generally is in person and direct), and racist messaging on a private site. See, there's this funny thing about American law... Sexual harassment.. Is against the law. Being racist.. Isn't. Now, I am not saying that in any way to SUPPORT his racist tripe, but that IS the reality. So... If a person sexually harasses someone else, cops get called, and action will be taken. If a person calls a person a racist name, then that is "freedom of speech". Do I agree with it? No. I happen to think that "freedom of speech" is used to justify a lot of crappy behavior in America. But I ALSO am aware that people have a lot of crappy beliefs, and use them to justify treating each other badly, but for better or worse, that IS the law, and no amount of reddit handwringing is gonna change that. If he went on a racist rant at work, I 100%, fully support him being fired on the spot. Because that directly affects the workplace environment in a way a racist rant on some site completely unrelated to the business doesn't. But I think you are absolutely deluded if you think this dude's work is gonna fire him for a racist rant on some website/app. But I also see the downsides of supporting the "idea" of firing him for something he did outside of work, that is not technically illegal, because I work in I.T. Security, and know it is just way too easy to use someone's internet history.. Almost ANY person's internet history, against their personal career. Especially if you are technically savvy, and knowledgeable enough to make things look a lot worse than they are. It is just a BAD practice from a societal perspective to support targeting people at work for what they do in their private time.
Well put
how isnt it? its words on the screen used to make you upset. any form of talking shit is going to be some form of ist or ism.
white person wonders, what the heck is the big deal about racism
Look at that, you're using skin colour as an argument. Not racist at all there...
In this context, "White person" is a metaphore for someone who has never experienced racism.
Aka racism. You're attributing/stereotyping a quality to a race of people.
whats ur bmi
definetly over 30
Not necessarily sure that an online rant in a DM is worth fucking over a guy's (and his family's) career and livelihood tbh. The guy lost his 3000+ game chess account. Sounds like it's been handled already. - Going further by stalking the guy online, and wanting to write to his HR department seems creepy tbh.
Sure, if you are completely comfortable with ruining his family's lives as well, because he was mean to you on a chess website. Honestly, I think your stalking behavior is a bad sign for YOU, as well. People are sh!tty online, but that doesn't mean they go on lynching parties on the weekend. The fact that you took some ignorant jackarse seriously enough to go stalking him on social media pretty much means he accomplished what he was setting out to do, which was to disturb you mentally. I would chuckle at someone who went on some rant against me, and not even let it ruin my day. I might even play 100 Elo better for the rest of the session out of the sheer joy of my win over a person sending them that far off the deep end. I love to see people crack under pressure I applied, in any competitive pursuit. It's one of my greatest joys in life. I would probably have even engaged with his rant and trolled him a bit, to REALLY p!ss him off with how little his rant affected me. People like that HATE this with a white hot passion. I mean, to be honest, I prolly add them as a friend to keep trolling them. I mean... What could possibly be better than making a person like that completely lose their mind over a game?
Half the time I think these assholes don’t actually care about the person’s race as much as they are just looking for something, anything to upset them. I’m not sure it’s racism as much as it is just generally vitriolic behaviour. I don’t think they should get a slap on the wrist, but this attitude of threatening someone’s livelihood because they tilted and tried to insult someone they don’t know online is pretty fragile. I’m definitely more disgusted by the ’victim’ than I am of the troll here. Both are demonstrating pretty gross behaviour.
I've always found it to be great fun to show the trolls how simple and transparent their tactics are, and that I think it is actually funny. Trolls are generally people of fairly low intelligence as it is, and I have found it to really make them even angrier when I make fun of them in an intellectual manner that they "can't quite understand". I agree though. OP seems very fragile.
Make your decision, but only after you have watched Vinland Saga seasons 1 and 2.
I would say too far.
destroying someone's career over a chess game is a little melodramatic.
He who seeks revenge digs two graves.
It's crazy how many Proverbs people on this forum know.
I assume you're a police abolitionist, right?
Hmmm.. I doubt he is, but the idea that America doesn't need to take a CLOSE look at law enforcement, is something only a hopelessly indoctrinated lemming can buy into. Ethnic folks in America have been screaming for decades that they are being intentionally targeted by police for harassment, and you have situations like Baltimore where a person "accused" of a crime is taken for a "rough ride" in the back of a police van, and comes out of it with brain damage, and folks like yourself eat up like pie the idea that our police are all perfectly well behaved, and nothing needs to change. You assume they are just lying, and making up stories for... "reasons". It probably never even occurred to you they might be telling the truth? Nahhhhhhhh. That's impossible, amiright? There's zero possibility that you think otherwise because you have been trained to by talking heads on TV with their own agenda. Come on, prove to me how open minded you are in your response. Doooooo eeeetttt! Perhaps you should consider the possibility that you shouldn't follow talking heads on TV so much, and entertain the possibility that police in general have too much power, and too little oversight in America. There's no chain of command over all police forces in America, which basically leaves each municipality up to the enforcement whims of their individual police leaders. I am an American living in Germany, and I can tell you that we don't have many of the social problems, and racial tensions, like in America. One of the reasons? Cops don't pull people over for speeding tickets, is a big one. In America, this is often used as an excuse to target specific demographics to "Pump those arrest numbers up, son! Those are rookie numbers!"
Germany doesn't have the same racial history as the US though, it's not really a fair comparison. In the US racial minorities do on average commit more crimes because they are on average poorer because the southern states (mostly) screwed them over after the civil war.
I will agree to most of this. With the proviso that they kind of tried to eliminate everybody who was not a blue-eyed, brown/blonde haired German at one point, across much of Europe. And I will caution about this particular statement - ". In the US racial minorities do on average **commit** more crimes" Actually.. They get "convicted" of more crimes. That is an important distinction. Because of how our legal system is set up, it is inherently easier to both arrest, and convict a person who has to rely on public defenders, and is facing juries predisposed to find them guilty. This creates situations where the prosecutor knows they can offer a plea bargain with full knowledge that the minority defendant might be forced to accept, rather than face a much longer prison sentence. And cops will be predisposed to target suspects they know are most likely to get convicted. Prosecutors tend to advance in their jobs via successful convictions, and cops by arrests that result in successful convictions. This creates an environment where both target those easiest to convict, not necessarily those who commit the crime. Blacks just happen to be the easiest minority to convict. That "might" explain why they are the biggest population in American prisons, but yet crime does not go down in direct correlation to prison population size. Just an idea. Not saying it is 100% correct. I am not saying racial minorities don't "commit" more crime on average due to being poor, but I also don't believe all the minorities in prison committed the crimes they were convicted of/plea bargained. And the thing is.. Why are minorities poorer? At least the ones born and raised in America? It is a known fact that ethnic names tend to get you less interviews. For the "Well, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" crowd, it is also known that despite laws against redlining, it is harder to get a home/business loan as a minority in America, as opposed to a white person in similar economic circumstances. If minorities can't get as many good jobs, and can't get a home or business loan at a decent rate (if at all), then how exactly are they supposed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, again? Start a roadside stand?
redlining then and now is mostly the reason minorities are poor. You just got released from slavery yay, but now you have no possessions and you are stuck near a bunch of rich white people who hate you and need laborers for their farms. So all the ex-slaves became share-croppers and their economic situation didn't really improve, combine that with a century of racist laws and against-the-law redlining and you've got the perfect recipe for generationally poor families
Didn't particularly help that when American Blacks DID in fact, "pull themselves up by their bootsraps", it was all burnt down by white supremacists.... I wonder how much generational wealth was wiped out in this one instance? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa\_race\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre)
Bro are you ok? I asked that other clown that question because I assume his attitude about vengeance being so bad would obviously expend to the US justice system and the way it deals with transgressions.
There's a difference between revenge and justice.
Perhaps Germany doesn't have issues between the police and black people because is Germany is mostly a mono-culture without many black people.
Ahhh, see.. NOW we are getting somewhere. Funny you mentioned "black" people, as I made no mention of that, and specifically mentioned "ethnic" persons. Hmm.. I wonder why you would single out blacks? "Very interesting", as Kramnik might say. I am not saying there is specific racial bias against a certain group on your part, but it is "interesting". And for the record... Percentage of Americans who are "non-white" - 42% Percentage of Germans who are "non-white" - 30% Not a huge difference, when you really consider it.. Except for the fact that the vast majority of U.S.-born African Americans are descended from slaves. Not so much with Afro Germans. The difference between America and Germany is that Germany FULLY owns the sins of it's past, and there is an effort from politicians on down to "everyman" not to repeat the mistakes it made in the past. WWII documentaries putting on full display the crimes of the Nazis are a regular thing on television here. And Germans watch them. My town of residence has placards of Jews taken by the Nazis, alongside names of soldiers from the area who died in WWII. German doesn't try to squash it's past. So much of German culture is centered around acceptance of "others", and not just swallowing up propaganda aimed to divide, as the German populace is well aware of the dangers of doing so. Germans in general are VERY suspicious of populist politicians who try to foment anti-immigrant sentiment. That is a lesson that America has yet to learn. Many in America would like to pretend that the racism of the 1960s and before magically "went away". But, it hasn't. You might want to look into "redlining". Here is a link I am sure you will not read into, as you seem to be very sure of your opinions. [https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/redlining](https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/redlining) Here is another "interesting" article on redlining... [https://preissco.com/mystery-shoppers-expose-alleged-redlining-at-bancorpsouth/](https://preissco.com/mystery-shoppers-expose-alleged-redlining-at-bancorpsouth/) Here is an excerpt of what Bancorp got fined for - BancorpSouth Bank, headquartered in Tupelo, Miss., is accused of: * Structuring their lending area to avoid and/or discourage mortgage applications from consumers in minority areas (also known as “redlining”). * Charging higher annual percentage rates to African-American customers than non-Hispanic white borrowers with similar loan qualifications. * Implementing an explicitly discriminatory policy of denying “protected class” applicants and denying credit assistance based on race. Racism is alive and well in America, it's just more undercover. Stuff like real estate agents dissuading Africa Americans with money from moving into certain neighborhoods, because it might influence the housing prices in the real estate agent's "bread and butter" neighborhoods. A young black man in a nice car doing 5 under the speed limit getting stopped by a SC highway patrolman and getting asked 20 questions about where he works, what he does for a living, where he is going, etc. (Hint.. He was being racially profiled as a drug mule driving under the speed limit in a late model car to reduce the chance of getting stopped by police..) The data/stories are all out there, for anyone interested in doing a 5 minute google search. I know more than most the problems with racism in America, as I actually resist swallowing up all the "racism is dun dead and buried" propaganda, and do my own research, and listen to my black friends about what they have to deal with. Which makes it even more annoying that I am catching it from both sides in this thread, because I don't think ignorance outside of work should automatically equal this guy getting fired.
again not really a fair comparison, America does own it's slavery past with the nice little "we fought a war over it see we care a lot about racism." Also germany is forced to own it's nazi past, it was occupied for years after WWII with it's government being an allied run military dictatorship. You could argue the North imposed rule onto the south after the civil war but they still got away with jim crow laws so not really
The North did not effectively "impose rule on the South" after the Civil War. They relaxed enforcement of many rules during the "Reconstruction" period in order to not antagonize Southern racists, to avoid a second civil war. This relaxing of enforcement is what "caused" Jim Crow laws in the first. Southern states actually elected many black representatives post Civil War during the period when the 15th Amendment was being enforced by the Northern forces, as blacks were able to vote and came out in large numbers. Jim Crow laws and a systemic disenfranchisement of black voters due to the relaxing of Northern enforcement is what led to much of the racist violence from the post Civil War era all the way into the 1960s. Just FYI. There was a short time of many black representatives getting elected, and then it quickly went back to mainly white male representatives as a result of said lack of enforcement. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement\_after\_the\_Reconstruction\_era](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement_after_the_Reconstruction_era) And while I do very much believe on the Southern side that the Civil War was very much fought, at least from the political level, to maintain slavery, as it was at that time the cornerstone of the Southern economy, on the Northern part, it was not really fought in the beginning to abolish slavery. It was fought to preserve the Union. That was something that came later when Lincoln realized that if slavery was allowed to continue, another Civil War was inevitable, as most of the civilized world outside of America had already abolished slavery at that point, and America retaining slavery was causing much international political issues. To the point where other countries were considering not purchasing slave-produced goods, and were looking for alternate supply chains. He got massive pressure from even his own Republican party to accept the Southern states back into the Union if they were allowed to maintain slavery, just to stop the war. And I don't see how Germany is "currently" forced to do anything. They haven't been under an Allied military dictatorship for half a century. Nothing is keeping them from simply cutting funding for the airing of the WWII documentaries. It is a conscious choice of the government and other entities, and has full buyin from the public.
Germany is 85% ethnic German and far less diverse than the US. It's easy to brag about a lack of racism in a country when that country is a mono-culture. I brought up black people in America because they suffer most from discrimination. The racist tension between blacks and whites dates to the founding, making it especially germane to the conversation. Maybe you're getting it from "both sides" because you have a condescending lecture-style tone, laughably informed by Googling and your black friends (the existence of which proves your enlightenment).
not over a chess game, but over inacceptable views
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> I don't see why yall are defending them Hmm, I wonder why...
It's not over a chess game. It's over being a racist. Are you fine with racism, cause that's basically what you're saying.
That’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard
>That’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard You just started reading your own posts, didn't you? At least you're admitting it.
r/Im14andthisisdeep
No, we are saying engaging in obsessive, mob mentality over something "relatively" minor, to the extent of getting someone fired, is not healthy for a society as a whole. Full stop. Getting someone fired for something that caused no physical harm, and did not impact their job, is a slippery slope. The goalposts can move, and a decade or two down the road, the offenses we can justify firing to ourselves for can get lesser and lesser. And beyond that, if we convince ourselves that firing is an appropriate punishment for such societal infractions, it becomes pretty easy to target people we don't like, and "cherrypick" comments out of context, and eventually, inevitably, mistakes are made. The sort of mistakes people don't recover from. Sure, the guy is a POS. But you go down this road, and it doesn't stop with racism. Mob mentality ALWAYS escalates, until at some point, you no longer recognize the society. We're already pretty far down that road in America as it is. It can literally get much worse, until people get falsely accused, lose their job, and it ends up costing them (and their families) everything. To be honest.. Your thinking seems a little bit simplistic. You don't see the societal problems that can inevitably arise from engaging in such retribution type behavior, and you are not enough of a student of history to see where that has led before. Malicious politicians prey on people like you, that just don't think too deeply into bigger issues.
You can't "get somebody fired" unless you're their boss and you're going to hr. All OP can do it seems some information to other people. It's the company who does the firing. They have that right, do they not?
>No, we are saying engaging in obsessive, mob mentality over something "relatively" minor, to the extent of getting someone fired, is not healthy for a society as a whole. Racism = good for society Negative consequences from racism = bad for society (racism is minor) You was typing this with a pointy hood on, weren't you?
nobody said that. we believe that getting fired is not an appropriate punishment for minor online racism (major racism would be actual actions such as lynching)
> (major racism would be actual actions such as lynching) Lmao this is one of the biggest problems in the US. Most people don't want to acknowledge anything less than lynching as actual problems (and ofc it's harsh but fair for someone to be fired for lynching!) You all are basically the digital KKK, only instead of white hoods you hide your intentions behind a bunch of bullshit excuses.
what? I said lynching is an example of major racism and saying "indian dog" online is minor racism. How then do you extrapolate that i don't care about racism that isn't major? It's not illegal but it's still definitely wrong. Why do you assume that because i gave it the title major I dismiss the minor form?
Well, obviously you are not debating in good faith, as I am pretty sure you know exactly where I stand on this, and you are being intentionally dense about it pretending like you don't understand, or you actually don't have the ability to read what I am saying and understand it. I will repeat it again, nice and simple, in hopes you make an effort. I abhor racism in all it's forms, and if the dude had went on said racist rant in the workplace, I 100% support firing him on the spot. I ALSO believe it is a bad precedent to fire a person for behavior outside the workplace, when that behavior is both not illegal, and has no direct impact on the business, because goalposts can move on what is a fireable offense. People are herd animals who don't think through all possible future ramifications of policies like that. An individual person may be smart, but people as a general rule, in groups, are ignorant. As evidenced by January 6th. But let's just run with your stance, for a second.. What exactly do you think will be accomplished by the firing of this person? What... Will he stop being racist? You think the other racists out there are gonna "stop" being racist when they (somehow) hear the story of this dude getting fired? And then.. Is dude gonna sit back and reflect on his life, and turn over a new leaf? Or does he sit and stew in his new minimum wage job, and blame it on all those ethnic people for "costing him his job", then he loses his sh!t one day and goes and shoots up an African American church? But nah yeah nah... No chance of anything like that happening, huh brocephus? Speaking of his new minimum wage job... Does he deserve that much? Or do we hound him on the next job and get him fired from that one too? Relegate him to selling oranges on the side of the road? Do you foresee ANY negative consequences of that course of action? Being against racism, supportin his total ban from the platform where he committed the racist rant, and also being against firing a person for racist behavior in a venue that is not likely to ever reflect badly on an employer, is an example of a nuanced viewpoint. There are any number on unintended consequences that can arise from taking such a heavy handed approach. If everyone in America who was a closet racist was found out and fired, you cannot imagine the chaos that would bring. The only way to move forward from our racist past (and present) is to encourage more inclusive thinking, and wait for the racists to all die of old age. Retribution is not, and never has been, the solution.
>If everyone in America who was a closet racist was found out and fired, you cannot imagine the chaos that would bring. Lol yeah man, we gotta accept racism for the good of the nation. Because imagine if we actually found out about all those pesky racists! (ignore the people who are harmed by racism, they don't matter). >The only way to move forward from our racist past (and present) is to encourage more inclusive thinking, and wait for the racists to all die of old age. Retribution is not, and never has been, the solution. Lmao "the only way to move from our racist past, is to let all the racists be" fuck off with this nonsense. The only "nuance" coming from you is how nuanced your efforts to defend racism are. You've blamed everything but the actual racists or any systemic issues.
Screenshots of chat if you don’t mind? Will help me answer better
“Rematch then Asian dog we will deport you npnp” Stuff like that - and lots of similar stuff on his Twitter over the years
Rofl holy shit I thought it was gonna be some balls to the walls shit. Hahhahahahha holy shit this is fucking just sad
That’s pretty tame, I would forget about it.
You want to ruin his life for that? You are a bad person.
OP can't ruin his life. The company can, if they choose to. And they are allowed to.
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Don’t listen to these replies, OP. You should definitely do it. People are clutching their pearls while saying “just over a chess match??”, but we know that it’s not about the game - it’s about his behavior
Ask anarchy chess
Sounds a little bit dramatic no offence. In the heat of the moment sure. The day after and you can't play good chess because it's affected you that badly? I would try and stay off the Internet if people can get to you that easily. Or just turn the chat off wherever possible. People are always gonna say offensive shit online. No point getting bogged down by it all. Going as far to stalk the guy and find out his twitter and LinkedIn is a bit weird. Do you try and stalk everyone who has ever shittalked you online? Would ruining the guys job and potentially life be a worthy trade for you over a couple mean comments? I'm by no means defending what he said, by all accounts he sounds like a proper ass, but trying to ruin his life? Too far.
yes, it is too far. I'm sure you'll do it anyway though... you have to be a special kind of deranged to even get to the point that you're at now.
No one forced him to go on a racist rant let him face the consequences of his own actions. The people defending this just don't give a fuck about what you faced and probably feel more empathy towards the perpetrator lol reminds me of "I Can Excuse Racism, But I Draw The Line At Animal Cruelty". Ruin his life it makes you feel better it's on him at the end of the day
How do you know the guy on Twitter is the same person as the guy on chess.com?
That’s a fair point because there’s a tendency of people to use/steal photos of others. If more account details match, then it really probably is the same guy. And if it is the same guy, I wouldn’t mind if he was in a position to face consequences. I feel like you always hear these stories about old bigoted twitter comments by pro athletes and they tend to go on with their careers. Maybe normal people would face more consequences but I kind of doubt the guy would get fired. However, he might be forced to reflect on his actions which would be a good thing.
Checkmate him irl ? It seems like you have issues. Gl solving them
acting out of spite is never a good idea, you can either think inward like alot of people said or think of how you can make this person be a better man. maybe send him this paper and tell him the story over an email. i think it will bring the most good out of this situation and you will get the closure that you need.
What's worse... (a) someone spouting racial slurs in an online chess game that could easily have been avoided by blocking chat (b) someone trying to get someone's life destroyed I'd vote b. And if you succeed in it, you should be ashamed of yourself. Don't get me wrong, I don't think (a) is acceptable either, but a ban of the account is enough imo.
I'm an Indian and I face a bit of racism here and there on chess.com ( especially when they are losing) but I'd never go as far to destroy their personal life. Only gives them more reason to hate me. What you did is too extreme man.
Tell me your race , I will give you some choice words myself then you can try coming at me
I am Asian
Well more like for r/AmItheAsshole (the answer would be yes). You basically stalk this guy on his socials and now denounce him and feel superior because "you can decide if he loses his job or not". First of all, I doubt they would fire someone, just because some crazy dude (probably even from a different country) badmouth some employee and sends crazy long emails to the head of HR. Second, if such an encounter makes you drop 100 ELO points in the following few days, you either have an issue taking responsibility for your flaws or some other problems. Third, [chess.com](http://chess.com) took action and it is not up to you to do vigilantism. If it really bothers you, go to the police and they will take action. I even doubt that is completely legal what you are now trying to do. And lastly, how would you now feel if some dudes figures out your identity and badmouths you at your employer or university? Such a behavior should be banable on [chess.com](http://chess.com) as well. You are just some mentally unstable dude with a superior complex. Edit: Lol you even posted that on r/AITAH, how funny, this makes me feel quite good that I was spot on with that XD
>(probably even from a different country) Lmao the racism is coming from inside the thread now
What has that to do with racism. What I meant is like if someone would send some weird email about to the HR from another corner from the world (especially when they do not business there) it would either end up straight in spam or not even opened. I mean what do they expect anything than fishing from that email.
Online chess is worldwide. Most of your opponents are from other countries. What's racist about this
no for real!!! 💀
nah, not too far at all. fafo
Fuck bigots. Get him fired.
I agree. Make him regret his actions. Fuck that guy.
If you think it'll do something, sure. I think all these people defending the racist is kinda telling.
Nobody is "defending" the racism. Nice straw man. We are telling OP he is letting some troll online affect his own mental health, and basically saying that pretty much everybody in the world would be unemployed if we got everybody fired for their worst moment. And that people are d!cks sometimes in the heat of competition, especially if the competition in on some random site that has no real bearing on the work they might do professionally. I work in I.T. Security, and some people are tools in their personal lives, but that doesn't make the work they do on the job any less important. It is a very slippery slope to go looking to hurt people professionally for things they do in their personal lives. You never know the cascade affect that can have, for what is essentially "hurting someone's feelings online". Entire dystopian books have been written about societies where those in power seek to control behavior across the entire spectrum of the society, and how vindictive people within that society use that to attack people they don't like. If you encourage this sort of retribution, you open the door for people to abuse it maliciously. And as a general rule, firing someone for some things they did or said in their personal lives open up the company for massive lawsuits if there was no direct financial damage to the company and no impact to job performance, so this whole thread is misguided from that perspective as well. In addition to the negative psychological impact to OP from dwelling on it. Folks can literally go crazy engaging with trolls online and letting it affect their psyche.
>Nobody is "defending" the racism. Your whole post is defending racism. You downplay it as just being a dick in competition, you talk about vindictive people attacking people they don't like, say it's just hurting people's feelings online, entirely downplaying or trying to divert attention away from the fact that this is a clear case of racism. And then blaming OP for being upset, instead of blaming the actual racist. Also you're entirely wrong about that last part at least most places in the US since it's at-will employment. Unless it's for some protected class (and as much as you may wish it was the case, being a racist isn't a protected class), you can basically be fired for whatever. Honestly, YOU'RE exactly the person I was talking about-people happy to do whatever they can to normalize and defend clear racism because they either have racist views themselves or participate in racist behaviors. Just trying to divert attention and give cover. Honestly it's really shameful, and hopefully one day you reflect on your shitty attitude and become a better person. Good luck.
>And then blaming OP for being upset He's stalking the guy online and trying to destroy his life, over a couple comments on a chess website. >!“Rematch then!< >!Asian dog!< >!we will deport you npnp”!< Are those comments bad? sure. The guy definitely deserves a ban from the website. Are they so bad that you're gonna be thrown off for days afterwards, and then put the effort in to tracking his employer down? Not if you're even remotely well adjusted. OPs a damn near sociopath if he thinks getting the guy fired is an appropriate response.
100
No fr there’s lots of people defending the racist here - wow!
rofl you’re not gonna make it bro.
Ong
As a poc of color, talking shit online is really not justifiable reason to take away their life. They could have been on tilt and said some stupid stuff. They could very well be a racist. It's hard to judge since you left the specific details of what they said. Most times comments like these are just to be dismissed. It's online on a platform where you can disable chat. It's not really something to go out of your way to try to take away their income for. If that's what you want, so be it. Just know that someone's income is gone because they said some stuff while playing a board game.
Kinda disgusted at the comments saying "it's too far" and calling it "just a couple of mean comments" "trying to ruin his life".... Why are we suddenly concerned about the racist having a comfy life all of a sudden? Besides the comments making it all about themselves when they prolly live the most privileged life. OP you are doing nothing wrong. Now, would I have done the same? No, I would've let it slide. But it's not up to me to dictate to what extent you must be offended, since I have never faced racism like that. However, I would recommend turning off the chat on chess.com. And looking inwards about how much people's words affect you. Since you've already done the hard work, it's up to you to decide if you want to send the mail, but later in similar situations, try to ignore those f-ckers. My reasoning for ignoring isn't - 'Oh why are you ruining the life of a hard working and devout **racist??!**' It's for your own mental health and your own time. **You are not Batman.** You don't have to do the vigilantism. And frankly, you shouldn't give them the attention or mental space as much as you have allotted. You aren't a bad person, or an asshole as the comments here suggest, cheers and play chess.
> Kinda disgusted at the comments saying "it's too far" and calling it "just a couple of mean comments" "trying to ruin his life".... Why are we suddenly concerned about the racist having a comfy life all of a sudden? Besides the comments making it all about themselves when they prolly live the most privileged life. seriously, this thread is fucking crazy. did it get brigaded or what.
>Why are we suddenly concerned about the racist having a comfy life all of a sudden? Because fucked up individuals are still human, and don't deserve to have their entire life ruined over a few DMs on a website. I see more compassion for violent felons than someone who said some (frankly tame, in the scheme of racism) comments on a fucking chess website...
i wanna say do it but the cod lobbies always got like that
Sure, might as well send it. We all know how the internet works. If that person is comfortable posting racist stuff on chesscom and twitter, then surely they’re comfortable with an employer seeing it. I’d admittedly be surprised if it amounts to anything, but you can try.
I understand why you would be upset, but ask yourself what you are trying to achieve. Are you trying to punish him because he was racist towards you? Do you think this will make him any less racist? In my opinion, it seems a little neurotic and indeed vengeful to destroy somebody's livelihood over insults. Maybe he was having a really bad day? Like countless CSGO and COD players have said things many magnitudes times worse but I wouldn't try to get them fired from their jobs because of that. This reads like a satire and I really hope it is, because I think you shouldn't cancel somebody over something like this. I'm glad you held them accountable but this is going too far imo
Don't yall hate when you are so tired that you go on a racist tirade?
do you get all racist and stuff when you're having a bad day?
LOL
Not at all, but I've faced verbal abuse in chat on many occasions. However, I don't go out of my way to cancel somebody when they are racist and mean to me because they're a sore loser that got really upset or can't control their anger. I report them, forget about it, and move on. Maybe I'm just a bigot enabler but I don't think this justifies the much greater act of trying to get somebody fired from their job
>Maybe he was having a really bad day? Lol. I guess if you're having a bad day it's just ok to be a racist?
Generally, I try to be charitable when I get verbal abuse online by considering other factors. Maybe he was drunk? Maybe somebody puked on him at work, idk? However, l do agree with you. That does not excuse his racial abuse in chat, and I think it's good that Chess.com stepped in and banned him for his poor behavior to maintain a safe environment for the community. On the other hand, I don't think the transgression is so bad that it warrants him being fired from his job Edit: It's also possible that these types of people are only using race as a means to upset you; not because they actually believe those things. Again, doesn't make it excusable
>It's also possible that these types of people are only using race as a means to upset you; not because they actually believe those things. Yeah that's still just a racist. Also you folks are just shameful. Hikaru goes off after losing a tourney and people are ready to string him up, yet some racist fuck starts slinging slurs and everyone's all "well we need to be charitable and think of what his mindset may have been". Fuck that shit.
1. I was quite sympathetic to Hikaru on his outburst against Alireza. It was a heat of the moment thing after Alireza pulled the "I'm withdrawing" shenanigans. 2. This is a major distinction. Most people who criticized Hikaru weren't trying to get him banned off Twitch or fired from Chess.com. Some troll calls you an "Asian dog"; that's bad and racist behavior. When you go out of your way to try to get them fired from their job; I believe that reflects poorly on you as well.
Get him fired. That type of behavior need to have real consequences.
Dude did this to himself. You're just sharing facts. Send it.
Yes
> Can you believe, his accountancy firm has a statement on their front page about their commitment to diversity and inclusion, yet this accountant is a racist piece of shit online. This is actually common practice. I and the other queer staff were simultaneously all was "laid off" for being trans and queer, and a few months later the company posted signage of diversity and inclusion. Sons of bitchs do what they want, and are very happy to pretend to market themselves as inclusive for the publicity but when it comes down to it, 99% of companies that pretend they are inclusive are overwhelmingly racist, homophobic, transphobic, or sexist.
IMO destroying him on chess.com is enough punishment and should teach him a lesson.
You are ill and you really need help.
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>this sort of vindictive behavior is not appreciated in our country Lmao I mean as a racist obviously you're dumb as dog shit, but vindictiveness is baked into the fabric of the country you buffoon.
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Are you threatening to try to deport me because I am discussing racism on reddit? LOL
If you emailed me and I was his employer you would get a two word response "touch grass." And no, he would not face discipline.
Just send it. Racism is no joke. And shame on whoever thinks this going to far or just destroying someones life due to a "small lip". Racism kills people everyday in every form.
Yeah fuck that guy. I say good work
The internet has desensitised me to hate speech so much that I didn't realise its quite serious. Do whatever you want I guess but I am quite concerned by how much time and energy of you are life you are spending on some online rando who isn't really worth it. like why go through so much trouble? Will you be doing this everytime someone is racist to you? It's simply unfeasible to be doing this everytime you meet a dickhead online. Reporting to chess.com? Yeah sure creates a safe space and is quite easy and simple. But going after them irl? Is it really worth your effort? Also where do you draw the line? Or does it end at racism? Fuck the racist person but I am quite concerned about you and your mental state seems to be kinda fragile with how easily you are rattled? Basically, I am asking, what's good for you?
My humble POV: if youre not doing this kind of investigative work for all racist comments you see online and then reporting them to their employers, then this is merely vindictive behavior. And, what it shows is that you dont really care about anything else but to inflict some kind of reciprocal pain without considering the consequences to all those potentially innocent people who would be affected by this person being fired. And all of that, for words online. We’ve seen worse, and most people chalk it up to online bs wannabe internet tough person behavior. Most move on. But to take it so personally to the point of “investigating” someone so you can report them to their employer indicates some pretty strange behavior.
Okay
> I drafted an email to his head of HR with a 12-page annex of evidence proving his identity and screenshotting his racist rant. But is this going too far? Revenge shouldn't factor into this. If you would do this to any internet racist, even if they hadn't targeted you, then go for it. > His twitter contained a whole series of other racist comments. If his Twitter really does contain that many racist comments, then your "annex of evidence" should be primarily based on what he's said in public (rather than in a private chess game). Don't make it personal when it doesn't need to be.
What a lameeeeee
Do it
Definitely report to HR. When racists face little consequence, they will repeat being racist sooner rather than later.
Yes. But also be less insecure IRL. His conversations had no expectations of privacy - they were made without your consent. Absolutely send them to his employer. Racist people should not be in positions of corporate power.