This tournament is called 'Karjakin & Friends' informally, and it was organised in 2022 by Karjakin after he was banned by FIDE. This time however, the tournament is now rated by FIDE.
What's controversial now? Karjakin is no longer banned, AFAIK other participants aren't banned as well, I hope they won't be making any political statements during the events, and if they do, anyone can complain to FIDE.
It is controversial because Karajakin has not changed, fide even admits this but has said to PHN on twitter that he is not being rebanned because it gives him some kind of martyrdom status? Very strange and understandably controversial.
Karjakin has of course not changed, but what changed is that now his voice is no longer heard worldwide. Back in 2022 he was one of the top players, soon to play in Candidates. Since then the world outside Russia started to ignore him because he has stopped his international chess career over declining to play under FIDE flag. IIRC he is not even no longer classical rated, as he has gone without a game for over a year.
Karjakin was banned (and other random pro-war Russian players like Khismatullin were not) because his pro-Putin opinions were shown in media worldwide. Now no major newspaper outside of Russia will talk to him, and not much can happen out of him preaching Putin in Russia, there's plenty of propaganda there anyway.
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If you played in an event organized and led by Fischer, after he said I hate Jews and was banned for those comments, while in the midst of Jews being invaded and killed. Yeah I'm going to call you out on your judgement.
This isn't some open event where you happen to be paired with Fischer one round.
People around the world were very anti-Semitic in the lead up to WW2. It was very difficult for Jews to flee from Germany as Hitler rose to power because of this.
During the Holocaust, we knew that Jews were being persecuted in Germany, just not to the degree. And the United States stood on the sidelines until Pearl Harbor even though we knew of this persecution due in part to anti-Semitism.
Yes, hearing about the Holocaust immediately had a chilling effect on public anti-Semitic sentiment, but it still existed and didn't elicit the rage it does today (although that is changing rapidly). President Nixon was famously taped making several anti-Semitic remarks over the course of his Presidency as an example.
Anti-semitism in the US was at an all-time low in the 60s/ early 70s. It went up a bit in the 80s/90s to roughly the same level it was at for most of the 00s and early '10s. It has been massively on the rise since the later part of last decade.
This will also depend on where people live, for example in the middle east it skyrocketed over the past 50 years. Many middle eastern countries have between 10% and 0% of the jewish population they had in the 70s. Many fled to Israel or elsewhere in the world.
You say that while our President in the late 60s/70s was being taped saying many anti-Semitic things.
Edit: I mean that's the entire reason Fischer was able to say these things publicly in the early 60s and yet he continued to have the career he had. Nobody gave a fuck.
I'm not looking to write a treatise on how the centralization of communication & media and its blanket censorship has warped the views people hold toward language and individuals.
Similarly, information is all in one place and instantly accessible now. Fischer was not widely known as antisemitic until later. To the point where the general public still sees it as "losing his mind" after the world championship.
Nixon's tapes with conspiracy level antisemitism didn't come out until the late 90s.
I'm not claiming there was no antisemitism. There was plenty of it. It has never gone away.
Fischers first statements about Jews were in Harper's Bazaar, not exactly the most obscure source, but you are generally right about the spread of information. But ultimately you do agree that the hypothetical the original guy made is silly. Yes if someone played Chess against Fischer knowing his views on Jews he would and should be criticized.
It's not an endorsement, but it is saying that you don't think his views are heinous enough to be boycotted. And don't try to tell me there isn't a line for you.
True, however this event is organized by Karjkakin who is basically a propaganda machine for Russia. I'm not one of those people who are asking for all these players to be sanctioned but it still rubs me the wrong way, and I don't blame people who do react that strongly.
They still play with israeli players despite the disgusting war crimes, how about playing with American players in 2003 when America was murdering thousands in iraq , how about Egyptian players and their fascist government imprisoning children according to amnesty, how about China and their concentration camps.
What I'm trying to say is that we need to separate players from their nationality and chess is about the chess board and fide should be completely neutral .
Separate him from his nationality and you still have all his statements in support of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It’s not quite the same as just being a Russian player who hasn’t said anything, he is in full support of
Fide banned Russian players, all Russian and Belarusian players from playing under their own flags. This was applied to every Russian chess player .
If you don't think that's hypocrisy, you haven't been paying attention to world politics.
Everyone says disgusting comments and get passes left and right, it's his opinion as bad as it morally was .
Do you want a list of controversial statements made by Chess players in only the last 20 years? You would be shocked and surprised, yet no punishment until this .
Of course, it builds bridges between people. Even with the ideological differences, we can still sit down and be civil and play a game. That's the value of international competitions.
Looks like Radjabov and Sadhwani have got a thing for Karjakin propaganda tournaments, they also played at Chess Stars-2023 3.0 rapid and blitz tournament earlier this year and were 2 of the 3 non-Russian players there, the other one being Francisco Vallejo Pons of Spain.
That was shared by Radjabov in 2021 BEFORE war
[https://x.com/rajachess/status/1578423547457699845](https://x.com/rajachess/status/1578423547457699845)
anyone who doesn't live under a rock knew what Putin was like since the 2014 annexation of Crimea at the latest, not to mention what he has always been doing to any political opponents and dissenters
Putin was the pro-west, pro-free markets business partner the west wanted in Russia after Prerestoika. In Russian political terms, Putin was America's guy.
They grew up in Soviet culture. Radjabov speaks Russian and is friends with a lot of Russian players. Even did some podcasts in Russian. What is so controversial about camaraderie?
Dunno where you're from, but if any chess player made a post wishing happy birthday to a current political figure much less sucha controversial one as Putin it could hardly be read as anything else but approval or support for his current actions. At least in western europe and I pretty much doubt Radjabov intended it as anything less.
Are you suggesting that we should police and persecute individuals for what they post on Instagram? Many Western leaders aim for the prosperity of their people, yet they may be unpopular elsewhere. It’s important not to abandon critical thinking or push for the politicization of sports.
For Radjabov it's very much on par with his character, considering his relationship with the Azeri dictator and some of the things he's said in the past. Not surprisingly, all the players taking part are either Russian or from Pro-Russian countries. They don't see a problem with propaganda events because they don't condemn the war.
I am often reminded of that fact that Radjabov took to twitter to post in glee about people in Artsakh getting bombed by Azerbaijan in much the same way Karjakin was during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The latter got banned for a bit, the former was given a compensatory Candidates spot in the next candidates.
Pretty self explanatory. A tournament used by the Russian government as propaganda in the war. Go look at Karjakin's activities in occupied Ukrainian territory the past months if you want to learn more.
Wasn't Karjakin in occupied Ukrainian territory last week with the Russian military filming chess propaganda videos?
I'm not familiar with FIDE rules/code of conduct, but I don't understand how this isn't something FIDE would suspend a player for. Anyone familiar with the FIDE "politics" could help me understand?
Why? Whataboutism is a way for an idiot to change the subject. Why should we talk here about Israel? The topic is a tournament organised by Russian a country ruled by war criminals. If you don’t have anything smart to say about it just stfu.
Probably half the world shares the same opinion with Karjakin. Just like half the world supports Israel bombing brown kids, while the other half supports brown terrorists wiping out Israelis.
Half the USA thinks Biden voters are delusional and the other half thinks Trump voters are delusional.
Or there would be turmoil that either won't reach you or be brutally suppressed before it can amount to anything meaningful. That's literally dictatorship 101
You know this thing called justice?
You only make these statements because you don't suffer under the worst of what humans can do, stop being ignorant and at least express some level of sympathy and desire for peace in the world.
"brown kids" "brown terrorists"
And the fact there literally is no way to perfectly decide how it is 50/50. If you have no source, what makes it an objective fact
"A rough estimation might suggest that global support could be relatively balanced but heavily polarized depending on the region, with potentially around 40-60% of the world population leaning towards either side when aggregated. These figures are highly approximate and subject to significant regional variations." - ChatGPT
There's no concrete source that aggregated every single opinion globally, but it's quite common sense when you consider which regions support who, and how big their populations roughly are.
ChatGPT is not bad at these kind of questions.
I didn't ask it to tell a joke or asked about political opinions.
What source do you have that Karjakin is delusional?
Or what makes you think that ChatGPT & I are very off with our estimations, and what alternative view do you have on this topic, and what would be your source?
Wouldnt have minded if she was active but going out of your way to participate in Chess Stars.....
Though on the positive side, hopefully she becomes an active player again.
The discussion derailed again in political bickering. There are plenty of political subs on reddit.
This tournament is called 'Karjakin & Friends' informally, and it was organised in 2022 by Karjakin after he was banned by FIDE. This time however, the tournament is now rated by FIDE.
What's controversial now? Karjakin is no longer banned, AFAIK other participants aren't banned as well, I hope they won't be making any political statements during the events, and if they do, anyone can complain to FIDE.
It is controversial because Karajakin has not changed, fide even admits this but has said to PHN on twitter that he is not being rebanned because it gives him some kind of martyrdom status? Very strange and understandably controversial.
Karjakin has of course not changed, but what changed is that now his voice is no longer heard worldwide. Back in 2022 he was one of the top players, soon to play in Candidates. Since then the world outside Russia started to ignore him because he has stopped his international chess career over declining to play under FIDE flag. IIRC he is not even no longer classical rated, as he has gone without a game for over a year. Karjakin was banned (and other random pro-war Russian players like Khismatullin were not) because his pro-Putin opinions were shown in media worldwide. Now no major newspaper outside of Russia will talk to him, and not much can happen out of him preaching Putin in Russia, there's plenty of propaganda there anyway.
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Your comment was removed by the moderators: **Do not politicize r/chess. r/Chess is not a political subreddit.** Submissions and comments touching on political subjects must directly connect to FIDE, national chess federations, chess organizations, or prominent players experiencing a chess-specific issue. Submissions and comments must deal directly with chess politics, not broader political issues. You can read the full [rules of /r/chess here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this moderator action, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchess&subject=About my removed comment&message=I'm writing to you about the following comment: https://old.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1dovmch/-/lacwa4j/%0D%0D). Direct replies to this removal message may not be seen.
FIDE doesn't dictate who's controversial lmao. Karjakin is a Russian propagandist used extensively by the media and he's organising this event.
>used extensively by the media Which media, Russian? Nobody watches those outside of Russia and maybe a few countries allied with it.
Playing with controversial player is ok, you don’t have to make some political statement. No one need to say I hate Jews when played with Fischer.
If you played in an event organized and led by Fischer, after he said I hate Jews and was banned for those comments, while in the midst of Jews being invaded and killed. Yeah I'm going to call you out on your judgement. This isn't some open event where you happen to be paired with Fischer one round.
You should see what Fischer has said before he turned 20, long before he became insane…
Well unfortunately back then anti-Semitism wasn't seen as negatively as it is today.
The Holocaust was still recent history back then.
People around the world were very anti-Semitic in the lead up to WW2. It was very difficult for Jews to flee from Germany as Hitler rose to power because of this. During the Holocaust, we knew that Jews were being persecuted in Germany, just not to the degree. And the United States stood on the sidelines until Pearl Harbor even though we knew of this persecution due in part to anti-Semitism. Yes, hearing about the Holocaust immediately had a chilling effect on public anti-Semitic sentiment, but it still existed and didn't elicit the rage it does today (although that is changing rapidly). President Nixon was famously taped making several anti-Semitic remarks over the course of his Presidency as an example.
Anti-semitism in the US was at an all-time low in the 60s/ early 70s. It went up a bit in the 80s/90s to roughly the same level it was at for most of the 00s and early '10s. It has been massively on the rise since the later part of last decade. This will also depend on where people live, for example in the middle east it skyrocketed over the past 50 years. Many middle eastern countries have between 10% and 0% of the jewish population they had in the 70s. Many fled to Israel or elsewhere in the world.
You say that while our President in the late 60s/70s was being taped saying many anti-Semitic things. Edit: I mean that's the entire reason Fischer was able to say these things publicly in the early 60s and yet he continued to have the career he had. Nobody gave a fuck.
I'm not looking to write a treatise on how the centralization of communication & media and its blanket censorship has warped the views people hold toward language and individuals. Similarly, information is all in one place and instantly accessible now. Fischer was not widely known as antisemitic until later. To the point where the general public still sees it as "losing his mind" after the world championship. Nixon's tapes with conspiracy level antisemitism didn't come out until the late 90s. I'm not claiming there was no antisemitism. There was plenty of it. It has never gone away.
Fischers first statements about Jews were in Harper's Bazaar, not exactly the most obscure source, but you are generally right about the spread of information. But ultimately you do agree that the hypothetical the original guy made is silly. Yes if someone played Chess against Fischer knowing his views on Jews he would and should be criticized.
If the event is fide and has no stated political message/goal then I have no problem with someone playing against fischer/karjakin/whoever.
Playing against Fischer is not an endorsement of Fischer's views. Playing against Fischer is a chance to experience the best of the game I enjoy.
It's not an endorsement, but it is saying that you don't think his views are heinous enough to be boycotted. And don't try to tell me there isn't a line for you.
True, however this event is organized by Karjkakin who is basically a propaganda machine for Russia. I'm not one of those people who are asking for all these players to be sanctioned but it still rubs me the wrong way, and I don't blame people who do react that strongly.
Taking part in the tournament is a political statement in itself...
They still play with israeli players despite the disgusting war crimes, how about playing with American players in 2003 when America was murdering thousands in iraq , how about Egyptian players and their fascist government imprisoning children according to amnesty, how about China and their concentration camps. What I'm trying to say is that we need to separate players from their nationality and chess is about the chess board and fide should be completely neutral .
Separate him from his nationality and you still have all his statements in support of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It’s not quite the same as just being a Russian player who hasn’t said anything, he is in full support of
Fide banned Russian players, all Russian and Belarusian players from playing under their own flags. This was applied to every Russian chess player . If you don't think that's hypocrisy, you haven't been paying attention to world politics.
Isrealis overwhelmingly support the genocide. Its safe to assume isreali masters like the killing
This has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with the disgusting comments coming from Karjakin.
Everyone says disgusting comments and get passes left and right, it's his opinion as bad as it morally was . Do you want a list of controversial statements made by Chess players in only the last 20 years? You would be shocked and surprised, yet no punishment until this .
I don’t disagree with Karjakin’s ban
I mean, if you want to make that stretch, sure. Go cancel all of the players.
Playing with pro-terrorist people in the capital of a terrorist country is ok in your eyes? I lost all respect for Hou Yifan
So as a Vietnamese , should I advocate that all tournament that have US players in it should be consider some terrorist schemes ? Do better.
Of course, it builds bridges between people. Even with the ideological differences, we can still sit down and be civil and play a game. That's the value of international competitions.
Looks like Radjabov and Sadhwani have got a thing for Karjakin propaganda tournaments, they also played at Chess Stars-2023 3.0 rapid and blitz tournament earlier this year and were 2 of the 3 non-Russian players there, the other one being Francisco Vallejo Pons of Spain.
Radjabov playing is not surprising at all. https://x.com/TarjeiJS/status/1578383484594397184
Radjabov is also Karjakin's best friend. And Radja has so much money that he DGAF.
😬
That was shared by Radjabov in 2021 BEFORE war [https://x.com/rajachess/status/1578423547457699845](https://x.com/rajachess/status/1578423547457699845)
The war started in 2014.
I mean sure but most people didn't know / care.
anyone who doesn't live under a rock knew what Putin was like since the 2014 annexation of Crimea at the latest, not to mention what he has always been doing to any political opponents and dissenters
Putin was the pro-west, pro-free markets business partner the west wanted in Russia after Prerestoika. In Russian political terms, Putin was America's guy.
They grew up in Soviet culture. Radjabov speaks Russian and is friends with a lot of Russian players. Even did some podcasts in Russian. What is so controversial about camaraderie?
Dunno where you're from, but if any chess player made a post wishing happy birthday to a current political figure much less sucha controversial one as Putin it could hardly be read as anything else but approval or support for his current actions. At least in western europe and I pretty much doubt Radjabov intended it as anything less.
Are you suggesting that we should police and persecute individuals for what they post on Instagram? Many Western leaders aim for the prosperity of their people, yet they may be unpopular elsewhere. It’s important not to abandon critical thinking or push for the politicization of sports.
I'm not suggesting any action, just stating the obvious.
and what is that Einstein? (your profile reads nsfw - i just realized I’m a fool for responding)
He grew up with Putin?
For Radjabov it's very much on par with his character, considering his relationship with the Azeri dictator and some of the things he's said in the past. Not surprisingly, all the players taking part are either Russian or from Pro-Russian countries. They don't see a problem with propaganda events because they don't condemn the war.
I am often reminded of that fact that Radjabov took to twitter to post in glee about people in Artsakh getting bombed by Azerbaijan in much the same way Karjakin was during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The latter got banned for a bit, the former was given a compensatory Candidates spot in the next candidates.
What is a "propaganda tournament" lol
Pretty self explanatory. A tournament used by the Russian government as propaganda in the war. Go look at Karjakin's activities in occupied Ukrainian territory the past months if you want to learn more.
What's an example of propaganda being put forth by the tournament directors?
Wasn't Karjakin in occupied Ukrainian territory last week with the Russian military filming chess propaganda videos? I'm not familiar with FIDE rules/code of conduct, but I don't understand how this isn't something FIDE would suspend a player for. Anyone familiar with the FIDE "politics" could help me understand?
Israeli players can play under their flag, explain this first pls.
Why? Whataboutism is a way for an idiot to change the subject. Why should we talk here about Israel? The topic is a tournament organised by Russian a country ruled by war criminals. If you don’t have anything smart to say about it just stfu.
What's controversial about the tournament?
Karjakin is a Putin puppet, completely delusional.
That's not the tournament
Probably half the world shares the same opinion with Karjakin. Just like half the world supports Israel bombing brown kids, while the other half supports brown terrorists wiping out Israelis. Half the USA thinks Biden voters are delusional and the other half thinks Trump voters are delusional.
Not even half of Russia shares Karjakin‘s opinion…
That's quite absurd. Most of Russia sides with Putin. Otherwise there would be much more turmoil.
Or there would be turmoil that either won't reach you or be brutally suppressed before it can amount to anything meaningful. That's literally dictatorship 101
No, there isn't turnoil. Most Russians think Putin is too soft on Ukraine.
They side with Putin, still that doesn’t mean they share his opinion. Not all Trump voters share his values, not by a long shot.
Most Russians think Putin is too soft on Ukraine lol
You know this thing called justice? You only make these statements because you don't suffer under the worst of what humans can do, stop being ignorant and at least express some level of sympathy and desire for peace in the world.
I make these statements because they're objective facts. What I said literally has zero indication of who I support or who my sympathies go to.
"brown kids" "brown terrorists" And the fact there literally is no way to perfectly decide how it is 50/50. If you have no source, what makes it an objective fact
"A rough estimation might suggest that global support could be relatively balanced but heavily polarized depending on the region, with potentially around 40-60% of the world population leaning towards either side when aggregated. These figures are highly approximate and subject to significant regional variations." - ChatGPT There's no concrete source that aggregated every single opinion globally, but it's quite common sense when you consider which regions support who, and how big their populations roughly are.
Bahahhahahahah no way u cited chatgpt as a source im dead
ChatGPT is not bad at these kind of questions. I didn't ask it to tell a joke or asked about political opinions. What source do you have that Karjakin is delusional? Or what makes you think that ChatGPT & I are very off with our estimations, and what alternative view do you have on this topic, and what would be your source?
Gotta secure the bag somehow lol
They are free to play anywhere, in any tournament. We should care about good chess only.
Wouldnt have minded if she was active but going out of your way to participate in Chess Stars..... Though on the positive side, hopefully she becomes an active player again.
Nobody cares that this is 'controversial'.
It's not really controversial, nor it should be.
Fuck anybody involved in this
Iran, Russia,China, India damn we got the entire gang
if you don't like it, don't watch. frankly you just gave publicity to it whereas i didn't even know it was happening.
Why should this be controversial? Also I thought chess-results was only available in standard Ukrainian and not dialects! So cool!
Carjacking.
This is hilarious
I'm not sure why Sadhwani was invited. I thought this tournament was just for stars - the Soviet flag has a star, the Chinese flag has stars...