I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=3r1r2/q5pk/2Q4p/8/8/3n1P2/P5PP/4R2K+b+-+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/3r1r2/q5pk/2Q4p/8/8/3n1P2/P5PP/4R2K_b_-_-_0_1?color=black)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!Knight!<, move: >!Nf2+!<
> Evaluation: >!Black has mate in 4!<
> Best continuation: >!1... Nf2+ 2. Kg1 Nh3+ 3. Kh1 Qg1+ 4. Rxg1 Nf2#!<
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I had a very similar smothered mate in a blitz game, except it was in the middle of the board… and my opponent allowed the mate in one instead of the smothered mate
Are you sure about that? Because I am 100.0% sure that Jimthafo is not a bot.
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|Black| Nf2, |White| Kg1, |Black| Nh3 (checks the King with both Knight and Queen), |White| Kh1, |Black| Qg1, |White| Rxg1, |Black|Nf2 mate
If, instead of moving to Kh1, White King moves to f1, then it's worse because it's mate in one.
900 elo here, don’t hate me. I only got into chess 2 years back with zero knowledge of the game. Queen sacrifice then mate with knight? But if white had just taken with the king instead of rook, it would have been fine?
You are correct that the immediate Queen sacrifice loses on the spot.
Instead you want to play knight F2, after which King G1 is the only legal move. Then knight h3 which gives double check to the king, so the King has to move to either F1 or H1.
If King F1 you make a very sad face and give checkmate with Queen on F2.
If King H1, now you can do the Queen sacrifice as the King won't be allowed to take the Queen as she's protected by the knight.
Indeed, that's actually white's only legal move.
Then you move the knight back to F2. The king is in check, but can't move anywhere and the knight can't be taken either, meaning it's checkmate. This checkmate is known as the smothered mate.
Hey it's my pleasure; it's not an easy pattern to see unless you have quite some experience. It's a very common chess puzzle but happens very rarely in real games.
Enjoy the chess adventure! :)
To add to the other answers (because it's double check), there are three ways to get out of check:
* Capture the attacking piece
* Move the king
* Interpose a piece between the attacker and king
There's a rhyme for this: "capture, move away, interpose; get out of check with one of those".
In a double check only moving away is possible as you can't interpose along two different checking paths or capture two attackers.
This is called a smothered mate, and if you start doing tactics puzzles on one of the big sites you will solve this one 100000 times and definitely never miss it in a game.
Yes, but it is literally rated around 1800 ELO puzzle and position just does not happen in the legit 2100+ ELO games @blitz and slower.
I am ~2400 puzzle rating at lichess and last probably 500 puzzles did not have this one.
Comes up surprisingly rarely in Lichess puzzles.
I still miss the old puzzles. They revamped it a couple of years ago and I liked the old version better.
I got one of these recently, it was I think a 3 or 4 move forced sequence leading to checkmate, or +18 for white, my opponent chose death.
I thought me and my opponent had played the games of our lives, stockfish claimed we played like garbage.
One of my friends told me to submit it for Guess the elo.
I never did unfortunately, I wasn't sure how they take guess the elo submissions for his channel but I think they put out a message on discord and accept submissions for a couple hours or something and I don't use discord very much.
Link is here, it is... Not a great game but my opponent played much worse luckily for me!
https://www.chess.com/live/game/100930961401
Which move should they have played instead?
No matter what, I don't think there's any conceivable to victory for white barring a horrific blunder by black.
i'm confused. why did they go for Qc6 in the first place? even if OP didn't have smothered checkmate, White has left their rook hanging to the knight.
Even if White's move was Qxc6, it is highly unlikely that they would have captured a rook since Black still has both of their rooks on the board.
there just is no strategic advantage to Qc6 or Qxc6, whatever the case may be. White isn't even under time pressure.
the blunder that leads to this smothered mate scenario just doesn't make sense at first viewing.
Tilt I think.
They played the danish with a bishop sac quite early on that put me in a delicate position, but it didn't quite work for them and then I took their rook for free. They were just playing hope chess at this point.
Couple of weeks I had it at OTB. When I saw M3 I screamed “I can’t believe it Its Smothered Mate”! Lol my opponent wasn’t happy but I couldn’t resist it just came out of me
Check with knight, king must move to g1. Now nh3 double check, so king must move to original position h1. Now the knight is guarding the g1 square, so qg1+ forces rook takes and then you have a smothered mate with the knight.
I think forced mate here is Knightf2 then KnightH3 right? If king goes corner play Queeng1, force rook take then Knightf2 again for mate, if king goes middle its Queenf2 for mate.
Is that how to go about it or is there a faster way?
I thought some people might be interested in ratings and time left.
I also don't want comments about my pfp or any messages from people on the chess website, and I'm sure my opponent would like the same thing.
Plenty of things they could do instead of letting the smother play out.
Kf1 for one.
Pressing the resign button for another.
Okay that's just two things.
I went and played it for the satisfaction and then somehow messed up the order and lost. ALL THAT PRACTICE, NO PRESSURE, KNEW THE PUZZLE ANSWER...still couldn't deliver. haha
I finally got a smother mate in the wild a few months ago and it was glorious I felt like a pro at 800 elo. Puzzles really help to see when it might be viable
I think this smothered mate should only be considered a basic tactic because it comes up in puzzles so much. It's a 4 move sequence with a Queen sac that isn't super intuitive with limited thinking time. When you're familiar with the idea and pattern sure it's easy but unprompted in the middle of a real game with other things on your idea this isn't exactly missing a basic fork or something level.
They already downed a rook and a knight in exchange for two pawns. So I bet for some sort of tilt. If I were them, I could play something like that with the hope of a queen blunder or something.
Ohhh so it is always the perspective of the white player... that makes sense.
So Rook F8 to F6 is bad because opponent can just go King to B6 and escape you.
>! Couldn't they do the same thing when the knight attacks though?
I'm not really understanding what you're saying as I'm reasonably sure you don't have the correct square names.
Would you mind double checking the square names and asking again? :)
I realized that its confusing because I was misinterpreting the rank symbols. The King is not anywhere near B6 its top left. Thats the queen actually. I am a dumbo lol.
But that was what I prefaced my first statement with ahah. I lurk a lot here and I'm not a great chess player. Just know the very basics (and apparently not very well).
The numbers start at 1 and the letters start at a, but from white's point of view.
Why would you move the rook from f8 to f5? To stop the check from the white queen and lose your rook in the process?
Omg huge facepalm. I thought the piece that is on C6 was the king. I am seeing now that is the queen and the king is all the way hidden up in the corner.
That would be the bravest king in history! You were actually trying to create a mating net, which is a good idea. Board vision bites all of us in the ass sometimes.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=3r1r2/q5pk/2Q4p/8/8/3n1P2/P5PP/4R2K+b+-+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/3r1r2/q5pk/2Q4p/8/8/3n1P2/P5PP/4R2K_b_-_-_0_1?color=black) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Knight!<, move: >!Nf2+!< > Evaluation: >!Black has mate in 4!< > Best continuation: >!1... Nf2+ 2. Kg1 Nh3+ 3. Kh1 Qg1+ 4. Rxg1 Nf2#!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by) [^(u/pkacprzak)](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as) [^(iOS App)](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^| [^(Android App)](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^| [^(Chrome Extension)](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^| [^(Chess eBook Reader)](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website:) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
My opponent would have played on...and played Kf1.
Feels like that move should be a reportable offense.
I had a very similar smothered mate in a blitz game, except it was in the middle of the board… and my opponent allowed the mate in one instead of the smothered mate
Rude
It's called a smothered mate either way lol. This is just one of the popular ways it can occur. ;)
Not smothering me. 😂
Qg1 is a pretty cool response :) But still sad.
I almost find that mate more satisfying, but I'm partial to "pieces working together" mates.
to get mated faster you mean?
Kf1 is still mate, just not as cool:(
THIS IS WHAT MY OPPONENT DID WHEN I FINALLY HAD SMOTHERED MATE
I've had the situation arise in about 3 games, in over 10k, they only let me have it once.
I managed to do the whole sequence in 1+0 bullet once
If he checks with the knight it is mate, it is already smothered…
Qf2# is there
Reset the counter
*masturbates furiously*
I don't think that's standard operating procedure, but we'll let it slide this time
I couldn't help it, smothered mates just do something to me
I want to be smothered while you mate me brotherman
Dear god..
oh... ooooohhhhh
Good bot
I might not be the most emotional guy, but being called a bot feels too harsh.
I just miss actual bots being here to reset the counter. :(
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!isbot u/WhyNotCollegeBoard
Ooh, smothered mate, Nice
Unless they play Kf1
No it doesn't work
It does. Need to play the two knight checks first.
|Black| Nf2, |White| Kg1, |Black| Nh3 (checks the King with both Knight and Queen), |White| Kh1, |Black| Qg1, |White| Rxg1, |Black|Nf2 mate If, instead of moving to Kh1, White King moves to f1, then it's worse because it's mate in one.
-9 karma
I swear this sub turns into That Other Sub when it sees smothered mate
Something about this mate brings out the worst in us.
maybe there is a little DiCaprio inside us all, just holding its beer and waiting to Point At A Familiar Thing
r/anarchychess is by FAR the better sub 😭🙏🏾
We're actually allowed to reference r/anarchychess in r/chess. It's r/chessbeginners where your comment gets filtered out for referencing something
900 elo here, don’t hate me. I only got into chess 2 years back with zero knowledge of the game. Queen sacrifice then mate with knight? But if white had just taken with the king instead of rook, it would have been fine?
You are correct that the immediate Queen sacrifice loses on the spot. Instead you want to play knight F2, after which King G1 is the only legal move. Then knight h3 which gives double check to the king, so the King has to move to either F1 or H1. If King F1 you make a very sad face and give checkmate with Queen on F2. If King H1, now you can do the Queen sacrifice as the King won't be allowed to take the Queen as she's protected by the knight.
I don't understand. If King H1 and you bring in the Queen to G2, what's stopping White from just taking the Queen with their Rook?
Indeed, that's actually white's only legal move. Then you move the knight back to F2. The king is in check, but can't move anywhere and the knight can't be taken either, meaning it's checkmate. This checkmate is known as the smothered mate.
Thanks for the answer. I'm clearly incapable of thinking more than two moves ahead LOL. Started yesterday...
Hey it's my pleasure; it's not an easy pattern to see unless you have quite some experience. It's a very common chess puzzle but happens very rarely in real games. Enjoy the chess adventure! :)
I think 1. ... Qg1+ 2. Kxg1 Nxe1 3. Qe5+ Kh8 4. Qxe1 should still draw
Indeed, well spotted. Black would likely then lose to tilt upon realising the opportunity that eluded them.
When you go knight h3, why wouldn’t white just take with the pawn?
It'll still be check from the queen
Double force check
Double check yes, but not a forced move. Opponent then has option of Kf1 or Kh1 (both of which lose)
Oh okay thanks! 600 elo here hah
To add to the other answers (because it's double check), there are three ways to get out of check: * Capture the attacking piece * Move the king * Interpose a piece between the attacker and king There's a rhyme for this: "capture, move away, interpose; get out of check with one of those". In a double check only moving away is possible as you can't interpose along two different checking paths or capture two attackers.
And then of course check mate with the knight. Sorry i had to finish it out
You give two checks with knight first then sac the queen. That way the king can’t take.
This is called a smothered mate, and if you start doing tactics puzzles on one of the big sites you will solve this one 100000 times and definitely never miss it in a game.
Yes, but it is literally rated around 1800 ELO puzzle and position just does not happen in the legit 2100+ ELO games @blitz and slower. I am ~2400 puzzle rating at lichess and last probably 500 puzzles did not have this one.
These days I almost exclusively see it in puzzle rush right after the obvious mate in 1s or 2s.
Yep, that is pretty much their "level". It is basically forced mating net, with a "makeup". :)
Comes up surprisingly rarely in Lichess puzzles. I still miss the old puzzles. They revamped it a couple of years ago and I liked the old version better.
Nf2+ first, forced Kg1, Nh3
Also 900, but taking with the king would be illegal since the queen is protected by the knight.
I got one of these recently, it was I think a 3 or 4 move forced sequence leading to checkmate, or +18 for white, my opponent chose death. I thought me and my opponent had played the games of our lives, stockfish claimed we played like garbage. One of my friends told me to submit it for Guess the elo.
Whenever I have an exciting game, I check the analysis and I realize it was exciting because we were both terrible
Did you send it to him in the end? ;) If it comes up in one of his guess the elo or analysis videos I'd very much appreciate a link :)
I never did unfortunately, I wasn't sure how they take guess the elo submissions for his channel but I think they put out a message on discord and accept submissions for a couple hours or something and I don't use discord very much. Link is here, it is... Not a great game but my opponent played much worse luckily for me! https://www.chess.com/live/game/100930961401
Just got a funny feeling in my pants
You're lucky he fell into the mate, you'd be completely lost otherwise.
Which move should they have played instead? No matter what, I don't think there's any conceivable to victory for white barring a horrific blunder by black.
I was being sarcastic my friend.
Ah okay :)
SMOTHER THAT SUCKER
Qg8 Kxg8 resign
Nf2+ Kg1 Nf3+ Kh1 (if Kf1, Qf2#) Qg8+ Rxg8 Nf2#. That's the only sequence.
It was a joke
Ah mb. Hard to tell sometimes
On met la patat he. Go België
I once had this position in the losing side continued until the last move for white and then resigned i still feel bad for him😶
This, folks, is what pure evil looks like ;)
i'm confused. why did they go for Qc6 in the first place? even if OP didn't have smothered checkmate, White has left their rook hanging to the knight. Even if White's move was Qxc6, it is highly unlikely that they would have captured a rook since Black still has both of their rooks on the board. there just is no strategic advantage to Qc6 or Qxc6, whatever the case may be. White isn't even under time pressure. the blunder that leads to this smothered mate scenario just doesn't make sense at first viewing.
Tilt I think. They played the danish with a bishop sac quite early on that put me in a delicate position, but it didn't quite work for them and then I took their rook for free. They were just playing hope chess at this point.
My puzzle brain immediately spotted the smothered mate, my actual game playing brain sadly spotted Kf1
Couple of weeks I had it at OTB. When I saw M3 I screamed “I can’t believe it Its Smothered Mate”! Lol my opponent wasn’t happy but I couldn’t resist it just came out of me
I wouldn't be able to resist either 😂
Oh yeah !!
Sweet! I always want to have that one.
Just remember not to lead with the queen lol. Rook takes is not forced yet
Black to pray and win after Qg1.
Holy moly, I wish that was me.
[HAH! GET CHOKED!!!](https://youtu.be/hUhRmFATht8?si=FYdUPc5wg3l1XJ2o)
Even 1700s fail to see this?
Especially 1700s.
Free rook!
Absolute love this for you. When I finally had my shot they gave up the queen mate instead of letting me get a smothered 🤦♀️
What is stopping him from taking the queen with his king
Check with knight, king must move to g1. Now nh3 double check, so king must move to original position h1. Now the knight is guarding the g1 square, so qg1+ forces rook takes and then you have a smothered mate with the knight.
Oh, I see, thanks.
Classic smothered 🙌🏼
What would be the correct move sequence if the rook was on f1 instead of e1?
still the same, except if he takes the knight you back rank mate him with Rd1+ Rf1 Rxf1#
*Starts with Qg1*
Ah, it's a smothered mate right?
Nf2+ Kg1; Nh3+ Kh1; Qg1+ Rxg1; Nf2# Obviously if Kf1; Qf2#
I think forced mate here is Knightf2 then KnightH3 right? If king goes corner play Queeng1, force rook take then Knightf2 again for mate, if king goes middle its Queenf2 for mate. Is that how to go about it or is there a faster way?
Why do you not use normal chess notation like Nf2+, Nh3+, Kh1 etc.?
I play a lot but dont know the notation very well it confuses me a bit
In this position, white has the brilliant move: uncastles (!!)
That's amazing lol. I'm still waiting for my opportunity
the only reason i know the answer is because this was basically my puzzle today lol. queen checks, knight smother mates
Queen check would be followed by king takes queen.
oh your right lol thats why im low ranked lol
Tactics or not the alt solution is just to use material advantage to win so it isn’t a one solution puzzle
Everywhere I go...
Nice! I got a smothered mate the other day, my first, I think. I am about 900-1100 blitz.
Just saying. If you are editing it to black out the names, then you might as well crop the board and make it look better.
I thought some people might be interested in ratings and time left. I also don't want comments about my pfp or any messages from people on the chess website, and I'm sure my opponent would like the same thing.
Fair enough.
Smother mate!!!
At first glance I thought this was Caruana-Nepo.
You’ve done years of puzzles and only 1800. Title does not check out lol
I play the puzzles, but I don't solve them ;)
Very nice.
Im pretty sure he didnt let you to do it.. Just basic checkmate
Plenty of things they could do instead of letting the smother play out. Kf1 for one. Pressing the resign button for another. Okay that's just two things.
Nice smother
I went and played it for the satisfaction and then somehow messed up the order and lost. ALL THAT PRACTICE, NO PRESSURE, KNEW THE PUZZLE ANSWER...still couldn't deliver. haha
How could you fail a simple backline mate? ;)
It's a smothered mate isn't it?
It is!
I finally got a smother mate in the wild a few months ago and it was glorious I felt like a pro at 800 elo. Puzzles really help to see when it might be viable
I would have played Kf1 coz I'm petty
Not cool bro.
How 1700 players miss this ?
Maybe they were tired or had a bad day. Can happen.
Tbh 1700s miss basic tactics all the time. Just miss them rather less often than 1600s and rather more often than 1800s.
I think this smothered mate should only be considered a basic tactic because it comes up in puzzles so much. It's a 4 move sequence with a Queen sac that isn't super intuitive with limited thinking time. When you're familiar with the idea and pattern sure it's easy but unprompted in the middle of a real game with other things on your idea this isn't exactly missing a basic fork or something level.
Indeed if I hadn't practised this mating pattern about 1000 times, I probably wouldn't have spotted it.
They already downed a rook and a knight in exchange for two pawns. So I bet for some sort of tilt. If I were them, I could play something like that with the hope of a queen blunder or something.
1700 is the new 1000. This game was a complete clown fiesta.
Against a titled player too if i see correctly?
Oh yeah, it does look that way :) It's just the bottom of their profile picture I'm afraid.
1700 players are not 2400 players. They're still garbage in the grand scheme of the game.
The only rule of chess ratings: Everyone a few hundred points above me is a chess genius. Everyone a few hundred points below me is a noob.
Ha definitely some truth there. Still, I prefer objectivity here when dealing with logical games haha.
Anish calls anyone weaker than him a noob. The entire world except a dozen players are noobs.
I'm not a great chess player and looked at the hint from the bot. I'm curious why you would pick that piece over moving the rook from c0 to c3?
Mostle because there's no rook on the c file and c0 doesn't exist.
Do the spots not start counting at 0? And letters do not start at A? What spot is the black rook bottom left then?
It's on F8.
Ohhh so it is always the perspective of the white player... that makes sense. So Rook F8 to F6 is bad because opponent can just go King to B6 and escape you. >! Couldn't they do the same thing when the knight attacks though?
I'm not really understanding what you're saying as I'm reasonably sure you don't have the correct square names. Would you mind double checking the square names and asking again? :)
I realized that its confusing because I was misinterpreting the rank symbols. The King is not anywhere near B6 its top left. Thats the queen actually. I am a dumbo lol. But that was what I prefaced my first statement with ahah. I lurk a lot here and I'm not a great chess player. Just know the very basics (and apparently not very well).
We all start somewhere :)
I appreciate your patience and explanation greatly :)
Hey you're welcome!
The numbers start at 1 and the letters start at a, but from white's point of view. Why would you move the rook from f8 to f5? To stop the check from the white queen and lose your rook in the process?
Omg huge facepalm. I thought the piece that is on C6 was the king. I am seeing now that is the queen and the king is all the way hidden up in the corner.
That would be the bravest king in history! You were actually trying to create a mating net, which is a good idea. Board vision bites all of us in the ass sometimes.
Cool ! At least my hypothetical attack on the "king" would have been a good move. Thank you for the patience and explanation greatly :)
Anytime!
BROOOOO I'm never had this happen to me in a real game, still waiting for that day
I’ve had it twice in the last year. Both times in forwarded to my IRL chess buddy and he’s been playing 10 years and never got it in a game 😂
What's the best chess app on android?
I'd say chessdotcom if you're willing to pay, lichess if you're not. I have both installed but I generally only play on chessdotcom.
easy smothered mate. Doesn't look like a high level puzzle TBH.
It's not. Quite a few people tripping up here though. I think most players over about 1000 can probably find it if they do puzzles quite regularly.
It's a bit of a cliche/meme due to smothered mate but I love how satisfying it is.
Finally after all these years a smothered mate, time to sacrifice the queen! opponents plays Kxg8... FUUUUUUUUUUUU
You need years of puzzles to find that when you are rated 1800?
Yes.
It's a mate in 4. Every move is forced. What are u smoking?
Yes.