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After white queen c8 King takes. Then white Rook h8+ gets blocked by Re8. If white plays rxe8 Black takes back with either the queen or the bishop. White Rook to d8 is no threat since the King is on c8.
I don't think mate has to be unavoidable for it to be a brilliant move. I got a brilliant rook sacrifice in a game recently that the opponened failed to see through so it resulted in a mate, but it was avoidable. Still the best engine move in that position though.
>Still the best engine move in that position though.
The difference is that this isnât the best engine move for OP.
After black saves the mate, OPâs queen is still hanging and has to move which gives black time to also save the g pawn (for example Rxh7 Re8, Qg6 Rg5).
If OP had started with Qxh7 instead, any move that saves the rook and doesnât hang mate allows Qxg7 and white is up an extra pawn.
There are four moves in the position that donât give up whiteâs whole advantage (the other two are Qg6 and Qg4) and if OPâs a beginner they did well to find it, but as an example the engine on Lichess calls it +1.5 compared to +2.6 for the best move, so itâs not going to get flagged as brilliant.
would Queen takes e5 also be the far better brilliant, threatening to win the queen on the next move or, if Queen or Pawn takes, giving mate with the rooks?
Nvm, apparently there was a pawn on h7
I don't play a lot of chess, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if white rook H8, then either: black bishop to E8, then other white rook to D8 for checkmate or: black rook to E8, then white queen to H7 to protect rook and free pawn on G7.
Or if they take rook H8 after queen to H7: then white queen to H8. After either: black bishop E8 then white rook D8 checkmate, or black queen E8 white queen E8 black bishop E8 white rook D8 checkmate
Playing that game as a kid, we'd agree before the game whether or not to play with that rule. I didn't like it because you'd end up in sequences where you don't have any choice , just have to keep doing the only move. I enjoyed the game more without the rule
Stop thinking about brilliants, they donât mean anything. In this case itâs actively making you blind to considering how your opponent could prevent checkmate. Youâre thinking that your opponent falling for a âbrilliantâ trap is the only move. Donât just hope your opponent falls for a trap, thatâs not âbrilliantâ.
They donât have to take they just move their rook out of the way and now you deal with your queen hanging
I mean they still got a free pawn (assuming there was one on h7) and a chance at another free pawn on g7. They have a tempo so they can move their queen to safety next turn. It's not a terrible option for a move and kind of cool that they can gobble up pawns even though the rook appears capturable.
Brilliants are a fun part of learning chess now. I don't think there's shame for beginners wanting to know how they work.
This is the screenshot without the pawn.
https://preview.redd.it/7totr6x7abbd1.png?width=1071&format=png&auto=webp&s=82920462768441d73e65891624f26c0e7ba8c9bd
Though this does beg the question why OP wouldâve moved his Rh at all if it had a clear line of sight to blackâs Rh, seems like a waste of a turn to me (which could explain the miss?)
Don't the "miss, blunder, mistake, brilliant, good", etc change according to Ello ? Maybe there is a default for analysis board and OP is not in the same "grade" ? I think those classifications are not reliable
Hardly definitive, but I set up that situation in chess.com's analysis board and it labels it a mistake rather than a miss, whereas h7 without the pawn is labelled as a miss, as in the above.
https://preview.redd.it/6ugoyddq9bbd1.png?width=986&format=png&auto=webp&s=069244249e58a436e4f3216cc06185ce9bce03e9
Sometimes the most unconventional means are used to refute brilliant ideas
I think this is such a case where black, with the right plays, can make it out of this mess
OP, what move did the engine suggest you play instead? My guess is there was a more forced advantage that you missed. That's often what makes a seemingly brilliant move be marked as a miss.
Edit: ~~actually if they took your rook you can simply recapture their rook with your queen. So there's no rook sac here anyways, so would not be marked brilliant.~~ nevermind I'm dumb
I would actually say, that OP's move put him in a disadvantage as in, this is a straight up bad move. After black moves his rook to any safe place, white looses tempo, becouse his queen is hanging. You should never play in a way, that relies on your oppnent blundering (gambits are a bid of an exception though as they usually leave you in a decent position, even if your opponent doesn't play into them)
His move doesnât put him at a disadvantage â white actually still holds a slight advantage after Rxh7, since black cannot capture the hanging queen and then white can move it next turn, with something like Qf4.
The feedback classifying this is a âmissâ is actually quite harsh in this scenario. It only drops the eval from +1.3 to +0.6, indicating his move still holds the advantage, but wasnât quite as strong as Qxh7 immediately. Youâre right about it losing a tempo, but itâs still winning and is whiteâs second best option
Either way, OPâs move is fine here, and is actually a clever way to win a pawn, even if black can sidestep mate. Iâd be happy if someone I was helping learn found this
Assuming there was a pawn on h7, I think you would have been better off to capture h7 with the queen, Qxh7.
That way, it's the same threat, if they take, you have mate in 1, but if they don't they have to move the rook, and suddenly instead of having to spend the next move retreating the queen, you can capture g7 as well.
This is a good explanation. A lot of people here are saying "oh you blundered a queen" or "he doesn't have to take"
But it's actually a nice tactical way of winning a pawn. The only reason the move is a "miss" is because it would've been better to do so while moving your queen to safety, creating an attack on the g7 pawn, and keeping your rooks connected
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=1k5r/ppp3pR/2b2p2/4rQ2/8/P1N1qPP1/1PP3P1/1K1R4+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/1k5r/ppp3pR/2b2p2/4rQ2/8/P1N1qPP1/1PP3P1/1K1R4_b_-_-_0_1?color=white)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rc8!<
> Evaluation: >!White is better +2.25!<
> Best continuation: >!1... Rc8 2. Qf4 Qxf4 3. gxf4 Re7 4. b3 b6 5. Rd4 Rce8 6. f5 Bd7 7. g4 Bc6 8. Ne4 Bb7 9. Kc1!<
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You should have taken the rook with check. They have to block on E8 with either the bishop or Rook. If they block with the Bishop, you do Rook to D8 and it's mate. If they block with the Rook, take it with check again and you've won a whole rook.
I wager it would have been brilliant if you played Qxh7 instead. That was your top move. You played the second best move which dropped your eval by a point.
They are just going to move the rook to end the threat and now you have to save your queen. Initiative lost.
But you can take the rook as well for a guaranteed checkmate? Am I missing something?
Take the rook on H8
He defends with Rook to E8
Check the king with Rook to D8
Rook takes Rook on D8 as itâs the only move
Second rook takes the defending rook on D8 - Checkmate
They eat your queen, you take their rook and give a check, bishop hops onto the back lane to block ur check, you take the bishop thinking you checkmated black only to find out that the opponents queen has a straight shot at your rook. You lost 14 points of material while black only lost 8. You're left without an attack and without a queen.
Because they doesnât have to take. Itâs not forced.
The logic makes sense, hoping your opponent thinks you blundered, and giving you mate. But if they donât take, your queen is hanging. Your mate is blocked.
Even if you DID take the rook, then youâre hoping they block incorrectly with the bishop. If they block correctly with the rook, you have no threat of mate.
Best case scenario if they block with the rook, you trade rooks and save your queen but youâre still at a disadvantage
The reason taking with the queen was better is that now your queen remains attacked, and your move disconnected your rooks.
It's a minor detail, and regardless of which piece takes, it's a nice idea to win a pawn and exploit your opponent's weak back rank.
Your queen is hanging. Rook takes queen, rook takes rook with check, bishop blocks, and if you take the bishop his queen can still take the rook.
But honestly, Re8 lining up a triple battery on the e-file probably works just as well. I feel like you'd have to respond with Qd3 and then if he tried Qe1 Rxe1 Rxe1+ you have Nd1 blocking and the queen covers, but that still leads to you trading queens.
Rxh8+ is better than Rh7 here.
If Be8 is played, #Rd8.
If Re8 is played, after Rxe8+ if they take with the bishop it is checkmate, if they take with the queen it is a winning position for white.
Edit: I didnât know there was a pawn on h7.
Because you could've won a rook by force if you simply took the rook on H8, then they'd defend and you'd trade the other rook for a big advantage. Now your opponent can just move his rook back to C8 or E8 and the game goes on.
Next time you're not seeing why a move was a blunder, use the [analysis board](https://lichess.org/analysis/1k5r/ppp3pR/2b2p2/4rQ2/8/P1N1qPP1/1PP3P1/1K1R4_w_k_-_0_1?color=white#1). The [board editor](https://lichess.org/editor) makes it easy to create any starting position. Thanks for sharing, I totally woulda taken the queen and got mated in 3.
Why didn't you Rxh8+ ? You then could have followed it up with Rd1d8# because the opponents h8 rook would no longer be defending the king. This is a blunder no matter how you slice it.
I believe that its a queen sacrifice. If the opponent takes the queen, i.e. Re5 x Qf5, then Rh7 x Rh8, if they use the bishop, Bc6->e8, then Rd1->d8 checkmate. If they use the queen then Qe3->e8, Rh8 x Qe8, Bc6 x Re8, then Rd8.
I believe its a great move. And if the opponent doesnt take the queen sacrifice, you arent left in a horrible position
why canât he eat the rook then check? or is that what he is actually showing? if the bishop blocks it mate by the other rook right? if the rook blocks it, use the other rook to check so rook eats rook eats rook is mate right?
Black rook takes queen on f5, white rook takes on f8, black bishop breaks the check by going to e8, then if the white rook takes on e8 u have protection to take it with the black queen? Black is up a queen and a rook for a bishop and a rook? Unless theres something im not seeingâŚ
Basically, as long as there is an escape hatch three moves ahead (in this case a6) it sets up the king to get out of trouble and you to lose your queen.
It does seem brilliant, but it relies on your opponent not seeing the three different ways youâre about to pin him, and not being willing to trade a rook for a queen in order for it to work.
Because you would have had mate in 3 while also capturing their other rook and bishop if you had just taken the rook
My bad, not mate in 3 but taking it would still have been the better move
the sacrifice actually fumbles mate because of Rc8 putting you on a back foot. suddenly your best move is a queen trade.
1. Rh7 Rc8
2. Qf4 Qxf4
3. gxf4
queen h3 is an option, but itâs still a drawn position. Re7 protects the g pawn and you donât have a viable back rank attack anymore. an eventual rook trade means black is only down a pawn on a favorable board.
2. Qh3 Re7
3. Rh8 Ree8
4. Rxe8 Rxe8
your best move to start was actually Rxh8+, which was the M3 line.
1. Rxe8+ Re8
2. Rd8+ Rxd8
3. Rxd8#
Should have taken the rook, giving check and announcing mate in two.
Black has to block with the bishop or rook.
If black blocks with the bishop, white runs the other rook to d8#.
If black blocks with the rook, white runs the other rook to d8+, followed by RxR and RxR#.
If Rh7 was a pawn capture, analysis is different. At a glance, QxP threatens the same mate and gets the queen out of danger. Black doesnât have a forcing move to prevent the mate, so needs to move the a or b pawn to give the king an escape. White gets the rook.
You were never in checkmating position, although the move is good as the rook is on seventh rank and taking is stupid. If you see what your opponent can do rook to e8, 3 piece batttery which defends and attacks, and it will be hard to defend, also knight is at best position for defending but it doesn't seem like it move anywhere, also queen has very few safe squares. So basically it just isn't a brilliant, as per me it is good move, engine says its a miss therefore there was/were a better move or maybe it thinks with its 3000+ ELO and thinks it can beat you 15 moves after this (:
it's because you missed a guaranteed checkmate with Rxh8+ -> Re8 (black blocking with rook) -> Rd8+ -> Rxd8 (black's only move is to take the rook on d8, allowing you to then take the rook back for checkmate) -> Rxd8#
Iâm a beginner but it looks like rook takes rook is the best move. Places king in check and his only counter is bishop to E8 to block. Next move is checkmate.
Or am i missing something?
Ah, that is important info. Because the only problem with the move I could see is that there were faster routes to checkmate available. But I donât think thatâs true with pawn on H7. Idk Iâm with you on this. Seems like a great move to me.
Itâs not brilliant because all they need to do is move the rook away from getting taken without taking your rook.
Literally Rc8 Rhe8 Rf8 Rg8 (Rg8 probably the best move here) all of these stop your âmateâ dead in the tracks.
Not to mention that after that move they are still attacking your queen, so youâd need to move it or delay them having room to take it. You only lost tempo with this move it seems.
Edit: on second look itâs not brilliant because you literally had a forced check mateâŚ.
Rxf8 2 moves here
Either Be8 -> Rd8#
Or Re8 -> Rd8+ -> Rxd8 -> Rxd8#
The move is a âmissâ because you missed Qxh7 which, while not forced mate, can gain at least 2 pawns and force black to lose tempo. (Black cannot take the queen due to Rdd8.)
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The [Chess Beginners Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/wiki/index/) is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more! The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed.** We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you! Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Rook to c/e/f 8 and there is no mate. Notice your queen is hanging.
Well, queen hanging is the reason OP thought it was brilliant. But yes, mate is avoidable so not brilliant
If Black rook c8 white queen c8 and then white rook h8? If black rook g8 it's the same as f8?
After white queen c8 King takes. Then white Rook h8+ gets blocked by Re8. If white plays rxe8 Black takes back with either the queen or the bishop. White Rook to d8 is no threat since the King is on c8.
Thx đ âď¸
I don't think mate has to be unavoidable for it to be a brilliant move. I got a brilliant rook sacrifice in a game recently that the opponened failed to see through so it resulted in a mate, but it was avoidable. Still the best engine move in that position though.
>Still the best engine move in that position though. The difference is that this isnât the best engine move for OP. After black saves the mate, OPâs queen is still hanging and has to move which gives black time to also save the g pawn (for example Rxh7 Re8, Qg6 Rg5). If OP had started with Qxh7 instead, any move that saves the rook and doesnât hang mate allows Qxg7 and white is up an extra pawn. There are four moves in the position that donât give up whiteâs whole advantage (the other two are Qg6 and Qg4) and if OPâs a beginner they did well to find it, but as an example the engine on Lichess calls it +1.5 compared to +2.6 for the best move, so itâs not going to get flagged as brilliant.
would Queen takes e5 also be the far better brilliant, threatening to win the queen on the next move or, if Queen or Pawn takes, giving mate with the rooks? Nvm, apparently there was a pawn on h7
Its a miss bcz he had to all the people saying there is not mate, RH8+ RE8 blocks the brilliancy is RD8+!!
I don't play a lot of chess, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if white rook H8, then either: black bishop to E8, then other white rook to D8 for checkmate or: black rook to E8, then white queen to H7 to protect rook and free pawn on G7. Or if they take rook H8 after queen to H7: then white queen to H8. After either: black bishop E8 then white rook D8 checkmate, or black queen E8 white queen E8 black bishop E8 white rook D8 checkmate
To quote Levy Rozman "This isn't checkers, they don't have to take"
I hate playing checkers simply because of the multitude of people who don't know or observe that rule.
That's not checkers then
Playing that game as a kid, we'd agree before the game whether or not to play with that rule. I didn't like it because you'd end up in sequences where you don't have any choice , just have to keep doing the only move. I enjoyed the game more without the rule
The rule makes it a deeper game, where forcing enemy moves becomes an option
Golden
I was in my thirties before I learned that they had to take it in checkers. My family never played that way growing up.
Stop thinking about brilliants, they donât mean anything. In this case itâs actively making you blind to considering how your opponent could prevent checkmate. Youâre thinking that your opponent falling for a âbrilliantâ trap is the only move. Donât just hope your opponent falls for a trap, thatâs not âbrilliantâ. They donât have to take they just move their rook out of the way and now you deal with your queen hanging
I mean they still got a free pawn (assuming there was one on h7) and a chance at another free pawn on g7. They have a tempo so they can move their queen to safety next turn. It's not a terrible option for a move and kind of cool that they can gobble up pawns even though the rook appears capturable. Brilliants are a fun part of learning chess now. I don't think there's shame for beginners wanting to know how they work.
If youâre assuming there is no piece on h7 then itâs even more obviously why it wouldnât be a brilliant move ;)
It's hard to see how missing mate in 3 would be labeled brilliant (though with chess com's algorithm, who knows)?
There might have been a pawn, so it was rook captures pawb
Good point!
Where is the mate in 3?
If Rxh8 was possible, 1. Rxh8+ Re8 (ty for correction) 2. Rdd8+ Rxd8 3. Rxd8#
Obviously there was a pawn on h7
This is the screenshot without the pawn. https://preview.redd.it/7totr6x7abbd1.png?width=1071&format=png&auto=webp&s=82920462768441d73e65891624f26c0e7ba8c9bd
Though this does beg the question why OP wouldâve moved his Rh at all if it had a clear line of sight to blackâs Rh, seems like a waste of a turn to me (which could explain the miss?)
Don't the "miss, blunder, mistake, brilliant, good", etc change according to Ello ? Maybe there is a default for analysis board and OP is not in the same "grade" ? I think those classifications are not reliable
Hardly definitive, but I set up that situation in chess.com's analysis board and it labels it a mistake rather than a miss, whereas h7 without the pawn is labelled as a miss, as in the above. https://preview.redd.it/6ugoyddq9bbd1.png?width=986&format=png&auto=webp&s=069244249e58a436e4f3216cc06185ce9bce03e9
OP confirmed there was a pawn there. Chesscom's analysis changes it's definitions based on your rating.
Isn't mate in 3 still possible after this? What would be the best move from black to prevent mate in 3?
I don't see any move by Black's h8 rook apart from ... Rd8 or ... Rxh7 that *doesn't* extend the game past at least the next three moves.
Small correction, I think you meant 1. Rxh8+ and Re8 for black!
Thank you, changed it!
Should've took with the queen
Yeah im guessing q takes is the correct move as you win the same pawn and don't lose the tempo on the Queen next move.
Taken*
Rc8
I imagine because you should have instead did that move with the queen and not the rook
What about black playing Re8?
Then use the other rook, Rd8, forcing the black rook to capture, moving off the defended square. Then Rxd8 is mate
Hope there was a pawn there....
Sometimes the most unconventional means are used to refute brilliant ideas I think this is such a case where black, with the right plays, can make it out of this mess
"The most unconventional means" of just not taking the Queen
OP, what move did the engine suggest you play instead? My guess is there was a more forced advantage that you missed. That's often what makes a seemingly brilliant move be marked as a miss. Edit: ~~actually if they took your rook you can simply recapture their rook with your queen. So there's no rook sac here anyways, so would not be marked brilliant.~~ nevermind I'm dumb
I would actually say, that OP's move put him in a disadvantage as in, this is a straight up bad move. After black moves his rook to any safe place, white looses tempo, becouse his queen is hanging. You should never play in a way, that relies on your oppnent blundering (gambits are a bid of an exception though as they usually leave you in a decent position, even if your opponent doesn't play into them)
His move doesnât put him at a disadvantage â white actually still holds a slight advantage after Rxh7, since black cannot capture the hanging queen and then white can move it next turn, with something like Qf4. The feedback classifying this is a âmissâ is actually quite harsh in this scenario. It only drops the eval from +1.3 to +0.6, indicating his move still holds the advantage, but wasnât quite as strong as Qxh7 immediately. Youâre right about it losing a tempo, but itâs still winning and is whiteâs second best option Either way, OPâs move is fine here, and is actually a clever way to win a pawn, even if black can sidestep mate. Iâd be happy if someone I was helping learn found this
Assuming there was a pawn on h7, I think you would have been better off to capture h7 with the queen, Qxh7. That way, it's the same threat, if they take, you have mate in 1, but if they don't they have to move the rook, and suddenly instead of having to spend the next move retreating the queen, you can capture g7 as well.
This is a good explanation. A lot of people here are saying "oh you blundered a queen" or "he doesn't have to take" But it's actually a nice tactical way of winning a pawn. The only reason the move is a "miss" is because it would've been better to do so while moving your queen to safety, creating an attack on the g7 pawn, and keeping your rooks connected
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=1k5r/ppp3pR/2b2p2/4rQ2/8/P1N1qPP1/1PP3P1/1K1R4+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/1k5r/ppp3pR/2b2p2/4rQ2/8/P1N1qPP1/1PP3P1/1K1R4_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rc8!< > Evaluation: >!White is better +2.25!< > Best continuation: >!1... Rc8 2. Qf4 Qxf4 3. gxf4 Re7 4. b3 b6 5. Rd4 Rce8 6. f5 Bd7 7. g4 Bc6 8. Ne4 Bb7 9. Kc1!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by) [^(u/pkacprzak)](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as) [^(iOS App)](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^| [^(Android App)](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^| [^(Chrome Extension)](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^| [^(Chess eBook Reader)](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website:) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
I think he has rook to E8 to connect his rooks and stop all threats
You should have taken the rook with check. They have to block on E8 with either the bishop or Rook. If they block with the Bishop, you do Rook to D8 and it's mate. If they block with the Rook, take it with check again and you've won a whole rook.
There was obviously a pawn in front of the rook.
I wager it would have been brilliant if you played Qxh7 instead. That was your top move. You played the second best move which dropped your eval by a point. They are just going to move the rook to end the threat and now you have to save your queen. Initiative lost.
This is called hope chess. Hoping your opponent blunders and doesnât see it. This may work <900 elo, but past that your opponents arenât stupid.
This is why https://preview.redd.it/bou7ugvj8cbd1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=996c6b38d02a1ad8f46602fe1391107d2cda1598 There is no mate.
Taking the rook would have left you up a Bishop Edit - Would actually lead to checkmate
I think we need to assume there was a pawn on h7.
Good point
But you can take the rook as well for a guaranteed checkmate? Am I missing something? Take the rook on H8 He defends with Rook to E8 Check the king with Rook to D8 Rook takes Rook on D8 as itâs the only move Second rook takes the defending rook on D8 - Checkmate
Safe to assume there was a pawn on h7
Thatâs fair, in that case this idea doesnât work.
Thereâs two rooks, a bishop and queen there, how does that lead to checkmate?
Mfw Iâm not as good as I wished I was.
Either rook to E8 stops it
What if they had done rd8, wouldn't that have been mate?
Look where their bishop is? He is protecting e8
Why not just take the rook?
You hang a queen, and even if Rook takes h8, there's Qe8 and there's no mate
Then you follow up with Rd8+ after your sequence. How do you stop that
Seems to be counted as a missed win, so there must be a move that gains you more than a pawn.
Black doesn't have to take your rook they could take your queen
Cuz you look ur queen
Surely their rook could just take your queen?
They eat your queen, you take their rook and give a check, bishop hops onto the back lane to block ur check, you take the bishop thinking you checkmated black only to find out that the opponents queen has a straight shot at your rook. You lost 14 points of material while black only lost 8. You're left without an attack and without a queen.
except that instead of capturing the bishop, you can move your other rook to d8, which is checkmate
Because Black just moves their rook to e8 and no you have to run with your queen.
Because they doesnât have to take. Itâs not forced. The logic makes sense, hoping your opponent thinks you blundered, and giving you mate. But if they donât take, your queen is hanging. Your mate is blocked. Even if you DID take the rook, then youâre hoping they block incorrectly with the bishop. If they block correctly with the rook, you have no threat of mate. Best case scenario if they block with the rook, you trade rooks and save your queen but youâre still at a disadvantage
Because 1. Rxh8+ Re8 2. Rd8+ Rxd8 3. Rxd8# was on the board
Bro was probably hearing the Luxury song after that move untill he saw the analysis. Relatable lol
Why would it be brilliant?
The reason taking with the queen was better is that now your queen remains attacked, and your move disconnected your rooks. It's a minor detail, and regardless of which piece takes, it's a nice idea to win a pawn and exploit your opponent's weak back rank.
Guys I think OP is joking
No. Iâm only 1200 on chess.com. This is a beginner subreddit and the idea is generally not bad just executed wrong. Shouldâve been with queen.
They donât have to take. You should have just taken the rook.
How is Rd8 not a checkmate. If RxQ than Rxh8 check, bishop blocks and Rd8 mate. If Rxh7, Rd8 is still mate
if he took the rook wouldnt jt be mate in 2?
Cus of be8 and qe8
Why would you not just take the rook for free?
they just take your queen or nice a pawn
Qxh7 is the brilliant move. Not Rxh7. Both moves work, but Qh7 is better.
Thank you
Because Qxh7 was more accurate
Lol
Rook h8 would have to be blocked with rook e8 and then rook d8, rook d8 and rook d8 mate
e5 takes f5... I can't make sense of whites move.
Am I tripping or wouldn't taking the rook have been mate for white since it checks black king?
Your queen is hanging. Rook takes queen, rook takes rook with check, bishop blocks, and if you take the bishop his queen can still take the rook. But honestly, Re8 lining up a triple battery on the e-file probably works just as well. I feel like you'd have to respond with Qd3 and then if he tried Qe1 Rxe1 Rxe1+ you have Nd1 blocking and the queen covers, but that still leads to you trading queens.
Rxh8+ is better than Rh7 here. If Be8 is played, #Rd8. If Re8 is played, after Rxe8+ if they take with the bishop it is checkmate, if they take with the queen it is a winning position for white. Edit: I didnât know there was a pawn on h7.
Qxh7 was better because you have the follow up of taking g7 after black moves the rook.
Not only is it not brilliant, itâs not even good đ
Because you could've won a rook by force if you simply took the rook on H8, then they'd defend and you'd trade the other rook for a big advantage. Now your opponent can just move his rook back to C8 or E8 and the game goes on.
losing your queen? dunno doesn't seem brilliant lol
if black takes queen, black gets mated lol
I'm really hoping you didn't take on H7 and you're asking this
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Uh mate, your queen
You missed Qxh7, same idea, better execution.
There was a pawn on h7
They aren't forced to take anything
Rxf5, Rxh8+, Re8, Rxe8+, Qxe8 no mate
Because you did not pay for premium
fellow beginner hereâŚthis move does nothing đ
Next time you're not seeing why a move was a blunder, use the [analysis board](https://lichess.org/analysis/1k5r/ppp3pR/2b2p2/4rQ2/8/P1N1qPP1/1PP3P1/1K1R4_w_k_-_0_1?color=white#1). The [board editor](https://lichess.org/editor) makes it easy to create any starting position. Thanks for sharing, I totally woulda taken the queen and got mated in 3.
Why didn't you Rxh8+ ? You then could have followed it up with Rd1d8# because the opponents h8 rook would no longer be defending the king. This is a blunder no matter how you slice it.
Just lost your queen for starters
Dont play hope chess. They do NOT have to take it. Rhe8 and there is no more mate and your queen is hanging.
Wouldn't just outright taking the rook be better... lol
Because rh8 would have been better?
If instead QxR
Black rook takes queen, white rook takes black rock with check, bishop blocks the check. At the end of it, you lose 3 points of material
the white rook on D1 has checkmate
He blocks with bishop, and the queen protects it. You've lost your queen and your doomed.
I believe that its a queen sacrifice. If the opponent takes the queen, i.e. Re5 x Qf5, then Rh7 x Rh8, if they use the bishop, Bc6->e8, then Rd1->d8 checkmate. If they use the queen then Qe3->e8, Rh8 x Qe8, Bc6 x Re8, then Rd8. I believe its a great move. And if the opponent doesnt take the queen sacrifice, you arent left in a horrible position
why canât he eat the rook then check? or is that what he is actually showing? if the bishop blocks it mate by the other rook right? if the rook blocks it, use the other rook to check so rook eats rook eats rook is mate right?
Black rook takes queen you take the rook but Bishop blocks the check and your rook cant take cause the queen is guarding it
Well, this is an interesting move in practical play, keep in mind that the engine is rated 3000 Elo and will see any possible way out.
D8 would be mate
They take your queen, you take their rook, then they block the mate with their bishop. You trade your queen for a rook. Brilliant.
Rook to e8 looks like it puts white in big trouble
You could have won both rooks edit:I lied you could have won the game
If you take first and go rook d8 after something blocks it might work
Itâs not a brilliant move because itâs not a good move. Check the engine and you will find that the idea doesnât work.
You missed a M3, instead of Rh7 you could've done: Rxh8+ Re8 Rd8+ Rxd8 Rxd8# edit: realized others have suggested that there was a pawn on h7
It's not brilliant, you are just trading material
Cause you blundered tour queen?
Your potential mate is not forced and he can just bring the rook to his king to have them guard each other
Black rook takes queen on f5, white rook takes on f8, black bishop breaks the check by going to e8, then if the white rook takes on e8 u have protection to take it with the black queen? Black is up a queen and a rook for a bishop and a rook? Unless theres something im not seeingâŚ
Because Rhe8, refusing your generous gift, and if you try to play Rh8 to force the issue, Rxf5 *now* and even if Rxe1, Qxe8 defends d8.
The red X is a missed win. You could have taken the rook for free
Because they can just take the queen, Rxh8+ is followed with Be8 and there's no continuation for white.
You should have take then rook d8 then he has to take with rook and the takes d8 and mate
Would rook to h8 and other rook to d8 have been a mate in two?
They don't have to take you know...
google en rooksant
Because he just takes your queen with the rook, you take his rook with yours, bishop blocks the check, rook takes bishop, queen takes rook.
I'm guessing because Qxh7 would have been better after rook moves you got Qh8 and then maybe Rd8 after that.
I'm not a high elo, but I think you might have blundered a forced mate
Basically, as long as there is an escape hatch three moves ahead (in this case a6) it sets up the king to get out of trouble and you to lose your queen. It does seem brilliant, but it relies on your opponent not seeing the three different ways youâre about to pin him, and not being willing to trade a rook for a queen in order for it to work.
bishop gaurds e8
Qh7 would probably be better.
to all the people saying there is not mate, RH8+ RE8 blocks the brilliancy is RD8+!! wins the game.
it's a nice trap, other than this it's not brilliant or winning.
1. Qxh7 mightâve been stronger, because you win g7 afterwards
Do you have eyes?
Because you would have had mate in 3 while also capturing their other rook and bishop if you had just taken the rook My bad, not mate in 3 but taking it would still have been the better move
If rook takes queen and your rook takes the black rook, the bishop has to block and itâs protected.
the sacrifice actually fumbles mate because of Rc8 putting you on a back foot. suddenly your best move is a queen trade. 1. Rh7 Rc8 2. Qf4 Qxf4 3. gxf4 queen h3 is an option, but itâs still a drawn position. Re7 protects the g pawn and you donât have a viable back rank attack anymore. an eventual rook trade means black is only down a pawn on a favorable board. 2. Qh3 Re7 3. Rh8 Ree8 4. Rxe8 Rxe8 your best move to start was actually Rxh8+, which was the M3 line. 1. Rxe8+ Re8 2. Rd8+ Rxd8 3. Rxd8#
Your opponent wasn't forced to take, also having Rd8# probably factored into it
Cause he doesn't have to take it Its considered a miss because you could have just taken the free rook instead
Bishop and queen guard the e8 square. He will take your queen 1st, then block your check and you will be down on material. It's a game losing move.
Should have taken the rook, giving check and announcing mate in two. Black has to block with the bishop or rook. If black blocks with the bishop, white runs the other rook to d8#. If black blocks with the rook, white runs the other rook to d8+, followed by RxR and RxR#. If Rh7 was a pawn capture, analysis is different. At a glance, QxP threatens the same mate and gets the queen out of danger. Black doesnât have a forcing move to prevent the mate, so needs to move the a or b pawn to give the king an escape. White gets the rook.
You were never in checkmating position, although the move is good as the rook is on seventh rank and taking is stupid. If you see what your opponent can do rook to e8, 3 piece batttery which defends and attacks, and it will be hard to defend, also knight is at best position for defending but it doesn't seem like it move anywhere, also queen has very few safe squares. So basically it just isn't a brilliant, as per me it is good move, engine says its a miss therefore there was/were a better move or maybe it thinks with its 3000+ ELO and thinks it can beat you 15 moves after this (:
it's because you missed a guaranteed checkmate with Rxh8+ -> Re8 (black blocking with rook) -> Rd8+ -> Rxd8 (black's only move is to take the rook on d8, allowing you to then take the rook back for checkmate) -> Rxd8#
Iâm a beginner but it looks like rook takes rook is the best move. Places king in check and his only counter is bishop to E8 to block. Next move is checkmate. Or am i missing something?
For the people still saying I missed mate in 3, there was a pawn on h7
Ah, that is important info. Because the only problem with the move I could see is that there were faster routes to checkmate available. But I donât think thatâs true with pawn on H7. Idk Iâm with you on this. Seems like a great move to me.
What's your elo?
It is already mate in three, no brilliant move needed. Rxh8, if Be8, Rd8 is mate. If Re5, Rd8, Rxd8, and Rxd8 is checkmate in three.
D1 to d8 would have been mate why it's a blunder
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I don't play much.. and I'm particularly bad with the terminology, but couldn't black rook just take white queen now?
Itâs not brilliant because all they need to do is move the rook away from getting taken without taking your rook. Literally Rc8 Rhe8 Rf8 Rg8 (Rg8 probably the best move here) all of these stop your âmateâ dead in the tracks. Not to mention that after that move they are still attacking your queen, so youâd need to move it or delay them having room to take it. You only lost tempo with this move it seems. Edit: on second look itâs not brilliant because you literally had a forced check mateâŚ. Rxf8 2 moves here Either Be8 -> Rd8# Or Re8 -> Rd8+ -> Rxd8 -> Rxd8#
The move is a âmissâ because you missed Qxh7 which, while not forced mate, can gain at least 2 pawns and force black to lose tempo. (Black cannot take the queen due to Rdd8.)