literally crazy he fell to chicago's laps even ak was shocked. probably didnt imagine he was within reach.
basically bought a top 5 pick trade value with top 10 pick.
this is valuable whether ak wants to tank or contend. draft prospects are literally trade chips u can trade for a star.
Yeah it was rare to see him slide past Portland at 7 on most mocks but things laid out perfectly for him to fall to us.
Looks like Detroit took a bet on the more athletic prospect despite everyone expecting them to take Buzelis (If Holland fell to 11 I wouldn’t have minded either).
Charlotte went boom or bust with Salaun at 6 which honestly I respect but it’s definitely a long shot to pan out. If he can replace P.J. Washington’s production by year 2/3 I’d say the pick turned out fine.
Clingan was available at 7 so Portland couldn’t pass on that, Memphis couldn’t work out their trade to move up to 3 and it looks like they were dead set on a C so Edey it was. San Antonio found a trade opportunity at 8. Utah I was most worried about taking him after Detroit passed on him but they went for another high upside pick in Cody Williams, landing a top 5 talent in Buzelis solidly in our lap.
Which makes me wonder, AK said he didn’t expect Buzelis to be there, so who would’ve been the pick if Buzelis went higher? My guess would be Ron Holland since we worked him out
Of that top 10.....Edey was the biggest (no pun) surprise. He sure helped his stock by staying in college another year and making it to the champ game seemed to get people hyped on him. I thought he was end of 1st even 2nd rounder. Sure he is massive but that won't be quite the advantage in the NBA. He can't shoot a lick and NBA D is going to be a problem for him. I think he is the NBAs version of JJ McCarthy who also seemed to jump way up because of winning and hype.
I think this is signaling a rebuild. Buzelis is a dude you absolutely want on the wing if Giddey is your playmaker because he moves off ball like crazy and cuts hard. I think the odds DeRozan comes back now are very slim. He’d be the odd man out on the roster
I just don’t think they’re moving off of Vuc AND Zach without having to attach picks to both of them. They’re both negative assets. Unless you wanna tank out drafts through 2027, we’re gonna start the season with one of them.
Trading Vuc, especially if rebuilding never made sense. You can’t give assets up to get rid of him. And trading Lavine at his lowest value would be dumb as well.
yeah vuc is a fine player for a rebuilding team. screens well, swings the ball; will help you develop players but not gonna help you win too many games
certified Vooch disapprover since the trade and I agree with this completely. As a team trying to win basketball games, an absolute trap player. As a team trying to develop young playmakers, an ideal mature partner to help nurture
How are you getting salary relief? You have to basically match contracts, so you are essentially taking back just as much money. At best the Bulls maybe get out of the Lavine money a year early
You answered your own question for one.
But also, during the offseason when many teams don’t have a full roster under contract, there’s more flexibility for a trade partner to take him on without having to fully match.
Hypothetically, that is. I don’t think anyone wants to pay Lavine $40+MM
That’s only if you get expiring deals, which this sub talks like is a forgone conclusion, which it is most definitely not. Almost every hypothetical deal has guaranteed money coming back for 2 years or more
I’ll go ahead and say that I’m not privy to any specific and viable deals for Lavine. But if the Bulls wanted to aim for salary relief and just that, they could trade him a slew of 2nd and 3rd rotation players who have one year left on their contract.
I’d actually never do that, but it can be done. At the same time, I really don’t see anyone sending picks for Lavine because of his org-averse deal.
Bulls are probably gonna end up sitting with him for another year. Maybe a trade deadline deal to a playoff thirsty team.
I think that’s why you probably keep him unless he can be dumped without having to give anything else up. There’s no young C on the roster he’s keeping on the bench.
But who's the buyer? He can't play defence, so it's unlikely a contender would want him, and there are cheaper centres available with similar skillsets in free agency. The real problem is no one posts up anymore and his shooting has dropped off.
Anything is possible though. I thought the Grizzlies were a potential team, but they just drafted Edey.
I don't know every teams situation off the top of my head but the NBA is a fluid league, we'll see what things look like in a few months and so on. Plenty of players in the NBA can't play defense it's why there's a premium on players like nic claxton. That's not a requirement for a player to be valuable. He's still a solid passer, can get you 10+ rebounds nightly and a shooting threat wether he's making them or not.
I know people always dog Vuch but just about every C in the league with a few exceptions plays drop D and struggles to switch the perimeter. Vuch is highly skilled, has been a double/double machine his entire career and almost never misses games. Really his big problem the last few years is his 3pt %. If he could just get back to his career norms he is much more valuable. He can score on just about anyone in post other than elite D centers. His contract isn't even that bad @ 20m per year. Plenty of teams will have interest at the trade deadline if we want to move him.
I agree, fans are harsh because of the situation surrounding the team and that's understandable but the analysis of the value of players on our team is so skewed because of how bad the team has been.
And even his 3 point shooting can be slightly attributed our inconsistent offense, inability to consistently set him up in his best spots (no PG).
This is why AK focusing on trading Zach right now is a dumb move. They should move Vuc and whatever they need to to get off his contract - then they can bring back Zach and see if he will rehab any value. He’s not going to suddenly make a team win a bunch of games all by himself.
I think they are focusing on Zach because both sides want a trade. I am not sure rehabbing his value is that big of a thing. Teams know that Zach is and there is no reason to believe he won't return to that. He is still under 30 and will likely be a 25/5/5 guy with 50/40/85 splits. That isn't shabby, its just he really needs to be on a team with a good PG to really shine and be the 2nd option. The problem is he is being overpaid, but dang lots of guys are being overpaid in the NBA and many are old and past their prime, Zach is still in his prime. I think Zach is staying and we will let Demar walk or try to sign and trade for some pieces and/or picks.
I’ve been a self proclaimed Vooch hater all season. I just couldn’t stand seeing him have worse per minute stats in 95% of categories than Andre Drummond all year and still playing almost 35 minutes per game.
no hes gone bc he refused trade with detroit. he gets dnped/benched he cant ruin matas development. both sides hate each other i doubt billy gives him starting. vuc is the only vet that starts just bc they dont have alternatives.
Heard KOC not love the fit with the Bulls. Dudes a great off ball player who’s a smart cutter, literally ideal with Giddey. Of all the guys we’ve drafted with a work in progress 3 point shot, I feel the best about his coming around. Really good mechanics seemed like more a strength/conditioning problem
yeah shooting is why matas was projected top pick. projecting his shooting will be his downfall is terrible scouting. he just had an off yr. he was an elite hs shooter hes not suddenly going to be castle level bad.
literally crazy he fell to chicago's laps even ak was shocked. probably didnt imagine he was within reach. basically bought a top 5 pick trade value with top 10 pick. this is valuable whether ak wants to tank or contend. draft prospects are literally trade chips u can trade for a star.
Crazy most mocks had him going 5-7
> Crazy most mocks had him going 5-7 Even when we pick #11, we still get the #7 pick. a whole decade of #7 overalls
Only to have shitty development and they flourish when they're shipped off to another team
Coby, Ayo, Dalen, Julian, and Pat are all trending upwards so Peter Patton might actually be cooking though
Yeah it was rare to see him slide past Portland at 7 on most mocks but things laid out perfectly for him to fall to us. Looks like Detroit took a bet on the more athletic prospect despite everyone expecting them to take Buzelis (If Holland fell to 11 I wouldn’t have minded either). Charlotte went boom or bust with Salaun at 6 which honestly I respect but it’s definitely a long shot to pan out. If he can replace P.J. Washington’s production by year 2/3 I’d say the pick turned out fine. Clingan was available at 7 so Portland couldn’t pass on that, Memphis couldn’t work out their trade to move up to 3 and it looks like they were dead set on a C so Edey it was. San Antonio found a trade opportunity at 8. Utah I was most worried about taking him after Detroit passed on him but they went for another high upside pick in Cody Williams, landing a top 5 talent in Buzelis solidly in our lap. Which makes me wonder, AK said he didn’t expect Buzelis to be there, so who would’ve been the pick if Buzelis went higher? My guess would be Ron Holland since we worked him out
Of that top 10.....Edey was the biggest (no pun) surprise. He sure helped his stock by staying in college another year and making it to the champ game seemed to get people hyped on him. I thought he was end of 1st even 2nd rounder. Sure he is massive but that won't be quite the advantage in the NBA. He can't shoot a lick and NBA D is going to be a problem for him. I think he is the NBAs version of JJ McCarthy who also seemed to jump way up because of winning and hype.
Not even a top 10 pick. #11
[удалено]
[удалено]
They were probably saying Sabonis was picked 11th, but mocked higher, and currently would likely go Top 3 in most re-drafts.
Sabonis, another Lithuanian player, was drafted #7 and picked #11, and now he is #3 of 2016.
"Mocked #7, drafted #11", would make it more clear.
I think this is signaling a rebuild. Buzelis is a dude you absolutely want on the wing if Giddey is your playmaker because he moves off ball like crazy and cuts hard. I think the odds DeRozan comes back now are very slim. He’d be the odd man out on the roster
Yeah, I’d sign and trade DeRozan, re-up PWill and run Giddey/Coby/Matias/PWill/Vuc to start next year.
Nah they need to replace Vooch too!
I just don’t think they’re moving off of Vuc AND Zach without having to attach picks to both of them. They’re both negative assets. Unless you wanna tank out drafts through 2027, we’re gonna start the season with one of them.
Trading Vuc, especially if rebuilding never made sense. You can’t give assets up to get rid of him. And trading Lavine at his lowest value would be dumb as well.
yeah vuc is a fine player for a rebuilding team. screens well, swings the ball; will help you develop players but not gonna help you win too many games
certified Vooch disapprover since the trade and I agree with this completely. As a team trying to win basketball games, an absolute trap player. As a team trying to develop young playmakers, an ideal mature partner to help nurture
LaVine at least makes sense for salary relief. If we’re rebuilding anyway, may as well just ride out the Vuc deal.
Salary relief to do what though? Trading Lavine for negative assets would be a mistake.
How are you getting salary relief? You have to basically match contracts, so you are essentially taking back just as much money. At best the Bulls maybe get out of the Lavine money a year early
The salary relief is future salary. The idea is you trade his contract for one that ends at the end of next year.
I don’t see the bulls getting back 35-40M in expiring contracts for him.
Ben Simmons
Not necessarily, correct me if I'm wrong byt if a team had cap space they could absorb some of his salary and not have to return it all
You answered your own question for one. But also, during the offseason when many teams don’t have a full roster under contract, there’s more flexibility for a trade partner to take him on without having to fully match. Hypothetically, that is. I don’t think anyone wants to pay Lavine $40+MM
Expiring deals and players who can be traded again or immediately released. It’s a trickle down that happens for a lot of “tank now” teams.
That’s only if you get expiring deals, which this sub talks like is a forgone conclusion, which it is most definitely not. Almost every hypothetical deal has guaranteed money coming back for 2 years or more
I’ll go ahead and say that I’m not privy to any specific and viable deals for Lavine. But if the Bulls wanted to aim for salary relief and just that, they could trade him a slew of 2nd and 3rd rotation players who have one year left on their contract. I’d actually never do that, but it can be done. At the same time, I really don’t see anyone sending picks for Lavine because of his org-averse deal. Bulls are probably gonna end up sitting with him for another year. Maybe a trade deadline deal to a playoff thirsty team.
No one can take him where it'd be relief. We're always taking back some contracts. Not a lot of 1 year remaining guys to match Zachs 40+mill
Vuc is a serviceable center on cheap and short money, they can find a place to trade him
I think that’s why you probably keep him unless he can be dumped without having to give anything else up. There’s no young C on the roster he’s keeping on the bench.
It will be easier to find a buyer at the trade deadline when teams might get desperate and there’s only a year and a half left on his contract.
But who's the buyer? He can't play defence, so it's unlikely a contender would want him, and there are cheaper centres available with similar skillsets in free agency. The real problem is no one posts up anymore and his shooting has dropped off. Anything is possible though. I thought the Grizzlies were a potential team, but they just drafted Edey.
I don't know every teams situation off the top of my head but the NBA is a fluid league, we'll see what things look like in a few months and so on. Plenty of players in the NBA can't play defense it's why there's a premium on players like nic claxton. That's not a requirement for a player to be valuable. He's still a solid passer, can get you 10+ rebounds nightly and a shooting threat wether he's making them or not.
I know people always dog Vuch but just about every C in the league with a few exceptions plays drop D and struggles to switch the perimeter. Vuch is highly skilled, has been a double/double machine his entire career and almost never misses games. Really his big problem the last few years is his 3pt %. If he could just get back to his career norms he is much more valuable. He can score on just about anyone in post other than elite D centers. His contract isn't even that bad @ 20m per year. Plenty of teams will have interest at the trade deadline if we want to move him.
I agree, fans are harsh because of the situation surrounding the team and that's understandable but the analysis of the value of players on our team is so skewed because of how bad the team has been. And even his 3 point shooting can be slightly attributed our inconsistent offense, inability to consistently set him up in his best spots (no PG).
Bet we can get future 2nd(s?) for him from the Lakers. LeGM loves vets.
So...buy out Vooch if we can't trade him?
This is why AK focusing on trading Zach right now is a dumb move. They should move Vuc and whatever they need to to get off his contract - then they can bring back Zach and see if he will rehab any value. He’s not going to suddenly make a team win a bunch of games all by himself.
I think they are focusing on Zach because both sides want a trade. I am not sure rehabbing his value is that big of a thing. Teams know that Zach is and there is no reason to believe he won't return to that. He is still under 30 and will likely be a 25/5/5 guy with 50/40/85 splits. That isn't shabby, its just he really needs to be on a team with a good PG to really shine and be the 2nd option. The problem is he is being overpaid, but dang lots of guys are being overpaid in the NBA and many are old and past their prime, Zach is still in his prime. I think Zach is staying and we will let Demar walk or try to sign and trade for some pieces and/or picks.
Please
Vooch might be the worst starting Center in the NBA. He’s going to be literally impossible to trade without giving up draft capital.
Not even close. Watch some NBA.
ur just trolling. vuc is horrible but he has value in defensive teams like celtics. its just bulls were horrible defensively he was exposed.
I’ve been a self proclaimed Vooch hater all season. I just couldn’t stand seeing him have worse per minute stats in 95% of categories than Andre Drummond all year and still playing almost 35 minutes per game.
That lineup *might* win 12 games.
LaVine is going to be a starter to open the season. I think they'll look to rehabilitate his trade value and move him at the deadline.
no hes gone bc he refused trade with detroit. he gets dnped/benched he cant ruin matas development. both sides hate each other i doubt billy gives him starting. vuc is the only vet that starts just bc they dont have alternatives.
Which is good. Set Derozan free man. He was fun to watch but it was very clear it wasn’t going to work and he’s not a floor raiser.
Buzelis is going to surprise some people with his athleticism, he gets up on both sides of the ball
Must be a big table
Heard KOC not love the fit with the Bulls. Dudes a great off ball player who’s a smart cutter, literally ideal with Giddey. Of all the guys we’ve drafted with a work in progress 3 point shot, I feel the best about his coming around. Really good mechanics seemed like more a strength/conditioning problem
yeah shooting is why matas was projected top pick. projecting his shooting will be his downfall is terrible scouting. he just had an off yr. he was an elite hs shooter hes not suddenly going to be castle level bad.
Glad to see he *checks notes* takes his job seriously?
I really hope "everything is on the table" does not mean packaging Matas with Zach for some win-now pieces.
Haha. That was what my brain heard after the history here.
Sounds like AK is hearing all the criticism after the Caruso trade.
That’s what I got from it too
He’s lying through his fucking teeth
Just like Tom Petty sang. Even the Losers... Get Lucky Sometimes