Same.
I’m 39F and I constantly see mid-late 30s to 40s men that “aren’t sure” about kids.
If you aren’t sure by this age… instant left swipe and never looking back. There’s no way a person doesn’t know. They absolutely have to be fishing for the 20-something’s… so my 39 year old ass ain’t it.
I believe that numerous individuals may not firmly align themselves with either perspective, so they tend to express uncertainty to maximize their options. By saying neither a definitive yes nor a definitive no, they avoid eliminating potential matches who either desire or do not want children. It's plausible that their main objective is to find a compatible partner and they would be content in either situation. In my opinion, a first date could potentially clarify these matters.
Hey, I really appreciate you sharing your perspective about men being content with either outcome. I’m (33F) CF and struggling right now with my bf (33M) of almost two years who presented himself as “open to long term stuff like kids and marriage”. I stated online to him that I do not want children but do want to get married.
In the last few months he seems to be wavering more and leaning towards the have-kids side. Talking about helping pay to freeze my eggs, how we have all the “right ingredients” to be great parents, and maybe we should just go to a fertility clinic and check if we’re even able to have kids.
It’s fucking with my mind because now I have this 0.1% of doubt in my mind about being CF. Has that doubt always been there? Is it there because he’s slowly introducing it? Am I doing a final mental check because of BS societal pressure about my “biological clock”? Was he originally OK with both outcomes or did he lie thinking I would change my mind?
Your perspective helps me see that he could have originally come from a non-malicious place and has been slowly coming down on the other side of the fence from me. How someone is 33 and doesn’t know what they want baffles me, but I try and rest easy knowing I was crystal clear about not wanting kids from the beginning and brought it up multiple times since then.
I’m starting therapy again tomorrow and am hoping he can attend a few sessions with me at some point. I’ve made a deadline in my head that if we don’t have this sorted / decided by the end of our lease in June of next year I’ll have to leave :(
Therapy can be beneficial in this situation.
It can provide valuable insights and a fresh perspective. It's possible that your partner is content with both sides of the decision, but societal pressures may have influenced him to lean towards another direction. Men often face external pressures regarding parenthood and the continuation of their lineage. It's important to have an honest conversation with your partner about his motivations for his recent change of heart.
It's worth noting that the "quarterlife crisis" is a recognized phenomenon, similar to the well-known midlife crisis. As your partner settles into the relationship, achieves financial stability, and becomes comfortable in his career, he may start questioning his future and seeking new experiences. The uncertainty about what lies ahead may lead him to consider having children as a natural progression, even if he hasn't fully explored or defined his desires.
It's common for individuals to struggle with leaving things unchanged and to feel compelled to take action. By exploring these complex emotions together and seeking professional guidance, you can navigate this situation with greater clarity and understanding.
You're noticing him bringing this stuff up and does it give you icky feelings? Also if I was you in your shoes are you entertaining the kids idea as a way to not lose him? (Potentially sacrificing your happiness to keep him)
But if it feels like more of a contemplative moment and not definite no you are allowed to change your mind. Heck, even try experimenting with how you feel if you did go to the fertility clinic. Or, just go and see what happens. See his reactions and yours if you want.
I don't see the harm in finding out and viewing the options from that perspective.
If the tubes are already bisalped though, like mine... I could do IVF but not sure I like the idea of messing with the hormones. I'm avoiding cancer lol. Plus tokophobia.
Wishing you insight, OP!
I know this is a tough thing we have to deal with.
❤️
This is actually me. I've been in a CF relationship for almost 4 years now, but when I was on dating sites I always left it empty. But I am different. I'm probably less CF than most here in, but I think a lot of guys adopt the same idea. Because as a guy even if you don't want kids there is nothing stopping your partner from changing their minds if they get pregnant. My biggest fear is being "baby-trapped" in a poor relationship. I could be open to having one singular child, if I met the perfect person who really did want a single child aswell.
Just my standpoint.
That's not surprising. First of all, most people only look at your profile picture and never read your profile. And even worse, you are literally telling breeders what lie they need to tell you in order to date you.
Some advice...
You really should NOT mention your childfreedom on your dating profile. You should also NEVER be upfront. Like, NEVER say something like: "Hey, I'm childfree. What about you?"
Why not? If you mention your childfreedom on your dating profile or if you are upfront about your childfreedom, you are telling breeders exactly what lie they need to tell you in order to date you.
Too many breeders, especialy breeder men, will lie and pretend to be childfree, and wait for the childfree person to change their mind. If you are upfront, you are making things extremely easy for them.
Am I victim blaming people who were upfront and whose breeder partner lied about being childfree for years? No. Of course the breeder is the arsehole who lied, while the childfree person was honest. But yeah, since breeders lie all the time, childfree people need to protect themselves by screening.
Screening. You need to screen. What does that mean? Basically, you need to get the other person to reveal their stance before you reveal your childfreedom. That way, if the other person doesn't know whether you want kids or not, they can't lie and tell you what you want to hear. That way, you will get a honest answer.
For more information about screening during the early stages of dating, read this: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 11nevtk / when\_dating\_stop\_being\_upfront\_about\_childfreedom
And most importantly, you really need to read u/thr0wfaraway's complete, elaborate screening guide: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 9xo6jw / screening\_starter\_kit\_the\_reprise
And please make sure that you only date childfree people. And no, 'okay without kids', 'okay either way' or 'I would rather be with you than have kids' is NOT childfree!
People who say those things want kids. They either pretend to be 'okay without kids' and wait for you to change your mind... Or they truly think that they are okay without kids, until they are no longer okay without kids.
Instead of someone who is 'okay without kids', you need someone who is 'NOT OKAY with kids'.
i wish i could upvote this a million times. revealing your childfree stance gives the other person (male or female) the opportunity to lie in order get what they want (whatever that is).
learning how to screen will yield the best results. asking the right open ended questions will give you the answers you’re looking for.
People here act as if being upfront is a good thing. But it's not. It's fucking stupid, fucking naive and fucking delusional. If you choose to be upfront, you will probably end up with a lying breeder.
the only time i think being upfront work is if you’re a man. ONLY because typically (definitely not always) women who want kids won’t waste time with men who don’t. but being a woman, men can (and will) lie because they have time to spare and it doesn’t effect them as much.
It's true that breeder men are way way way more likely to lie than breeder women. However, the reason isn't just what you described. It's also male entitlement. Patriarchal male entitlement. When men want kids, they feel entitled to having them with their current partner. They will pressure her until she succumbs. Meanwhile, women are much more likely to break up and look for a breeder partner.
Anyways, that being said, I do NOT recommend men to be upfront. There have been plenty of posts from men whose girlfriend/wife lied to them about being childfree.
Of course men are way more likely to lead women on than the other way around, but still. No matter what gender you are and what gender you are attracted to, being upfront is fucking stupid and fucking naive.
I agree. I have that children are non negotiable for me. Then I would get men that would hit me up that “already have kids and don’t want any more”… so I had to explicitly put in my profile “I also do not want to be a step mom”…. People DGAF I still have men with kids littering my inbox. Either they don’t read my profile, OR they read it and don’t care.
I only swipe on don't want. If you're around my age and don't know what you want, hard pass.
Edit: And I try to ask early on what level of cf they are, some people might not want their own but love being the "cool aunt" and will be baby sitting all the time.
It's me, I'm the cool aunt. I love the littles, but absolutely do NOT want any. Fortunately my loved ones don't abuse my love for their kiddos, so they try to find other babysitters and do offer me money or other compensation instead of assuming it's a free service I'll do anytime and everytime.
Great idea seeking that clarification. Dating is hard.
Yep, well I did for the month I was on them. Childfree is the one and only dealbreaker for me (39m) I have no interest in fence sitters as id want a serious relationship.
I feel like "doesn't have kids and might want them" or more specifically "unsure if I want kids" is just them trying to get as many matches from as many woman as possible by trying to appeal to both sides
Also, I feel like they shouldn't be unsure by the time they're like 25. If you're dating as a fully grown adult and looking for a long-term partner, I feel like making that decision is one of the first steps to take when you're preparing yourself to date.
I'm married now, but if I were ever single again, that'd be a hard pass for me, for sure.
I am 100% childfree, and am snipped, so it's literally not something I even want to entertain a discussion about. I am never going to change my mind. It's a hard no from me.
If we’re talking about the bee app.
Wants someday - swipe left (I don’t feel like getting into a relationship with a definite end date)
Have and want more - swipe left (for obvious reasons)
Have and don’t want more - swipe left (for obvious reasons)
Not sure yet - swipe left (my age range is 30-45 and at those ages you really should know one way or the other. Especially if you’re the one that society deems that you will be the one mostly responsible for them)
Have kids - swipe left (for obvious reasons)
Open to kids - swipe left (I’m not even sure what that means. Either way, I’m pretty much closed to having kids (there’s always some hypothetical doomsday scenario where I might be open to kids, but that’s a .0000000001% chance of that happening))
Blank - swipe right but proceed with caution.
(Edit forgot one)
Don’t want - swipe right
nope, pass, i'd rather be with someone serious about being childfree than someone who can't make up their mind, and if i can't have the first one, i'd rather be single.
>And honestly idk if I should just pass on all them?
Why the fuck would you not pass on those?
Most fence sitters end up wanting kids. When you meet a fence sitter, it's safe to treat them as if they are breeders.
Fence sitters are fence sitters. Not childfree people.
Childfree people should only date other childfree people. And no, 'okay without kids', 'would rather be with you than have kids' or 'okay either way' is NOT childfree!
If you date a fence sitter and hope that they turn out to be childfree, your heart will be broken. Most fence sitters are breeders. Yes, even fence sitters who lean towards childfreedom. Yes, even if they say that they are 'okay without kids' and that they would 'rather be with you than have kids'. People who say that are either lying, or they will say that now but can't repress their baby fever forever.
If a childfree person who dates a fence sitter is stupid and naive, they might even move in with them. Or even worse, get married. Then, they will inevitably tell you that they want kids, which you should've known from the start. Then, they hope that you will surrender to their baby fever in order to avoid a breakup. Some childfree people are delusional enough to do this, thanks to the sunk cost fallacy. Their lives are ruined forever.
>Do you give them a chance and communicate your seriousness of your choice?
That is fucking stupid and fucking naive.
Most fence sitters won't believe that you are serious about childfreedom. They are convinced that you will change your mind and go along with their baby fever.
But okay, let's imagine that they seem to believe that you are serious about childfreedom... They want kids, but they say that they are 'okay without kids' and say that they would 'rather be with you than have kids'...
\- Most people who say that are liars who are waiting for the childfree person to change their mind.
\- And even if they are honest, a relationship won't work. They will have to repress their baby fever and will end up resenting you.
Childfree people need to avoid people who are 'okay without kids'. Instead, childfree people need to date someone who is 'NOT OKAY with kids'.
Only date childfree people. Stay the fuck away from fence sitters and breeders!
>Why the fuck would you not pass on those?
Because not everybody is looking for a life partner on dating apps?
I totally agree with everything you're saying for anyone dating with serious intentions and looking for a long term relationship that would lead to marriage or a similar situation. But let's be real, a LOT of people on dating apps are not looking for anything like that.
I don't think it's stupid or naive for a young CF person to swipe right on a fencesitter for a potential hook-up, a few dates, and/or a casual short-term relationship like a summer fling or something. You're not going to be having kids in that time frame, so why does it matter? I can see there would be a clash in values between a CFer and someone who *really* wants kids even for a short term thing, but i think plenty of CFers and fencesitters could have perfectly fine temporary, non-serious, short term relations like if you're just trying to go on a couple dates for fun.
>Because not everybody is looking for a life partner on dating apps?
I know that, but this post was about serious relationships. Not about casual dating.
Also, when it comes to casual dating, I would not recommend dating non-childfree people.
First of all, what if you fall in love? You can intend to stick to casual dating, but many casual arrangements turn into serious relationships. Many people will end up ignoring the incompatibility and will end up in a relationship with a breeder or fence sitter. These people often end up posting here about the heartbreaking breakup which both partners keep delaying for years. Sometimes, they even say: "Don't tell me to break up!" Sometimes, the childfree person even surrenders to the fence sitter's baby fever to avoid a breakup. Sunken cost fallacy... They don't realise that the relationship will be dead when there is a child. No more romance. No more sex.
And when it comes to sex, even just casual...
If you are an unsnippd childfree man sleeping with a breeder or fence sitter woman, you know that she most likely won't abort an accidental pregnancy. So you are one broken condom away from fatherhood.
And if you are a childfree woman, I really hope that you have access to abortion and enough money to pay for an abortion and, if needed, a trip to another country or state. A fence sitter or breeder man might very well baby trap you, hoping that you will stay with him and become his free sex slave and housemaid.
>First of all, what if you fall in love? You can intend to stick to casual dating, but many casual arrangements turn into serious relationships.
I already addressed this in my first comment. Why do you not believe that other people who disagree with you can have their own free will and volition? There's nothing wrong with preferring not to casually date non-CF people if that's what you want, but why do you care if other people wanna do that? Acting like its always gonna end in a disaster is ridiculous. Falling in love doesn't happen by accident and emotions are not completely out of our control. If i end up in a situation that i feel is getting too serious with someone who isn't staunchly CF, i will end it. Though i highly doubt i would even end up in such a situation since im at a stage in my career where it is basically impossible that i would have enough time to dedicate to relationship for it to become that serious. Which is why i feel that my dating habits are fine.
I definitely don't think that all CF people are in a situation where doing what i am doing is okay. But for circumstances like mine, it's fine and i dont need others to preach at me that i cant handle this. You don't know other people and their lives, we're not all helpless romantics at the whim of "love." Adults can make their own decisions. I dont why you have to assume i'm stupid and havent thought this through. I use high quality birth control and a live in a country where abortion is widely & easily accessible and free. Obviously i would be considering things differently if i lived somewhere where women don't have bodily autonomy, i'm not an idiot.
>Why do you not believe that other people who disagree with you can have their own free will and volition?
I do believe that, but you just had to put words in my mouth...
>There's nothing wrong with preferring not to casually date non-CF people if that's what you want, but why do you care if other people wanna do that?
I never said that you cannot do that. However, people need to be aware of the risks.
>Falling in love doesn't happen by accident and emotions are not completely out of our control. If i end up in a situation that i feel is getting too serious with someone who isn't staunchly CF, i will end it.
Yes, you would end it. And so would I if I was in that situation. However, not everyone would. Plenty of people on this subreddit ended up falling for a fence sitter or breeder, ignored the incompatibility, entered a relationship... And years later, they go through a heartbreaking breakup or even end up breeding to keep their partner.
I think it's much safer to just avoid dating breeders and fence sitters, even casually.
>But for circumstances like mine, it's fine and i dont need others to preach at me that i cant handle this.
I believe that you can handle this. But I have seen so so so many posts from people here who clearly cannot.
You are taking my comments way too personally. This is not about you as an individual. My comment was directed at childfree people in general. And my comment is advice. My opinion. You don't have to follow it if you don't want to.
>I dont know why you have to assume i'm stupid and havent thought this through.
I am not assuming that...
>I use high quality birth control and a live in a country where abortion is widely & easily accessible and free. Obviously i would be considering things differently if i lived somewhere where women don't have bodily autonomy, i'm not an idiot.
Again, my comments were about childfree people in general. Not about you as an individual. You are fortunate enough to have bodily autonomy, but many other people do not.
It’s important to note that if you’re a women seeking a man on tinder or other apps, that most likely they will either not want to give a solid answer in their profile to not scare away potential partners or they will flat out lie (say whatever they think women want to here). There really is no way to know until you know them…
Pass them up. We’re all adults and it’s something people should be honest with others and especially themselves about if they’re looking for something serious or long term. Careers can change, people can move states or even countries but bringing another life into the world is something people shouldn’t be fence sitting on. TLDR: no, they’re indecisive about something serious
i can see this argument for older people, but why cant young adults be unsure about a major decision like this? if you're like 22 and fresh out of college yeah you're an adult but its completely reasonable to not be 100% about a huge decision like not wanting kids or not. You don't have much life experience yet, so how are you supposed to be sure about something like that? Some people know from a young age (i get it, i've been CF since i was like 12), but a lot of others don't. It's not a bad thing to not have your whole life figured out in your 20s. If you're 35 and still unsure yeah that's super weird and a red flag, but if you're under like 27 i wouldnt say its wrong or bad to still be fencesitting.
I usually swipe left, but I'm also a picky bitch and swipe left on most everyone 🤣💀 I also swipe left if they don't answer the kid question, because I assume they already have one or more and don't want to admit it
Instant no.
They either probably do want kids, whether they know that now or whether once they 'settle down' they think it's something they 'should' do.
I think the 'maybes' are so they don't scare off women by saying 'yes they want kids' as that seems too serious/too upfront and they don't want to put off women who want something more casual and/or are on the fence themselves. Bearing in mind, this is from my female mid-20s age range perspective.
Fwiw, every guy I swiped with on the maybe, when in hearing I want cats not kids, were instant bingo'ing me.
Some advice...
You really should NOT mention your childfreedom on your dating profile. You should also NEVER be upfront. Like, NEVER say something like: "Hey, I'm childfree. What about you?"
Why not? If you mention your childfreedom on your dating profile or if you are upfront about your childfreedom, you are telling breeders exactly what lie they need to tell you in order to date you.
Too many breeders, especialy breeder men, will lie and pretend to be childfree, and wait for the childfree person to change their mind. If you are upfront, you are making things extremely easy for them.
Am I victim blaming people who were upfront and whose breeder partner lied about being childfree for years? No. Of course the breeder is the arsehole who lied, while the childfree person was honest. But yeah, since breeders lie all the time, childfree people need to protect themselves by screening.
Screening. You need to screen. What does that mean? Basically, you need to get the other person to reveal their stance before you reveal your childfreedom. That way, if the other person doesn't know whether you want kids or not, they can't lie and tell you what you want to hear. That way, you will get a honest answer.
For more information about screening during the early stages of dating, read this: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 11nevtk / when\_dating\_stop\_being\_upfront\_about\_childfreedom
And most importantly, you really need to read u/thr0wfaraway's complete, elaborate screening guide: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 9xo6jw / screening\_starter\_kit\_the\_reprise
And please make sure that you only date childfree people. And no, 'okay without kids', 'okay either way' or 'I would rather be with you than have kids' is NOT childfree!
People who say those things want kids. They either pretend to be 'okay without kids' and wait for you to change your mind... Or they truly think that they are okay without kids, until they are no longer okay without kids.
Instead of someone who is 'okay without kids', you need someone who is 'NOT OKAY with kids'.
I pass them. It would be heartbreaking for everyone involved to end up in a situation where they realize they do have that deep wish, because I'm 1000% sure I don't. I don't want to end up there. May they find a better match who can be with them on that fence.
Yeah because I would respect someone more for being upfront about wanting children than someone that is wishy washy about it. At least i know what the wanting baby is about so i can definitively say no. The on the fence one will be a headache. Me side eyeing them see when they will manipulate me into having children.
That's what i said. Op asked "do you guys pass on dating ..." and I responded "Yeah because ..." I'm just explaining what would happen if i date a fence sitter. So that why i just say i would pass.
When I had a dating profile, I was very specific. No minor children and no long distance relationships. I added a paragraph at the end that said anyone dismisses these parameters. Obviously, did not READ my profile and will be blocked.
1/3 of them were from the East Coast and Midwest - I am West Coast.
I pass on them only because I'm 100% certain I don't want kids. Either they are going to compromise for me and not have them and regret it OR I will have to to end a potentially serious relationship down the line because they decide "wait I actually do want kids" and want someone who will give them that. I'm not compromising and having 'just one' to make someone else happy so I don't want to be with someone who might one day expect me to or decides to leave me.
I definitely would. Might want them, sound like "I want them in the future" to me. I know some people really aren't sure or are leaning towards no or really don't care whether they have them or not. But if you put on your profile that you 'might' want them, I will just assume that you want them. And I want to prevent breaking up much later because they suddenly want to have children, as much as I possibly can. It's not always possible because some people lie or change their mind. But if they already say 'might', then there is a much bigger chance. I don't want to waste my time falling for someone and building a life with the perfect person, only to find out that we have to break up because they're not as perfect as I thought they were.
I’d rather be single than be in a relationship with someone who isn’t on the same page as I am regarding kids. There are things in my life that I am willing to compromise on. You can’t compromise on kids.
I was brutally blunt on my profile.
I had interactions with some women who didn't have kids, but weren't parents. They were fun, but never went anywhere
My woman is very child-free, but had kept her profile neutral so that she didn't come across as some ranting harpy (like me!)
The profiles that say they might want kids, I'd skip. The ones that gave the air of "I don't want 'em, but society is cruel to CF women" I'd go for
It worked out extremely well
I give them a chance to explain their take and move on from there. Some are CF and just have issues coming out publicly with it and I think we all here can relate to that. On the other hand some are indeed fence sitters. Hence why I think it's at least worth investigating. Won't lose anything finding out.
It depends on what you are looking for. If you want a serious commitment with someone who is absolutely not a fence-sitter, then swipe left. If you are casually dating for fun, who cares? The only reason they're choosing this option is to cast a wider net.
Not everyone you date needs to be your ideal partner. I actually do date men with children because they don't much affect me. I am not trying to be in a LTR and I never meet their kids. Men can be as much work as a child anyway, and I have taken cohabitation off the table. And TBH divorced daddies can be real sweethearts.
Honestly I am surprised that this sub leans so heavily toward committed partnership and every trapping of the traditional nuclear family, save for the kids. And women can be so particular about men ticking a bunch of perfect boxes because they think every relationship is a trial run for marriage. Women are afraid to date casually because it's somehow not honorable and/or harmful to their value as a future wife. If you have liberated yourself from the idea that children are necessary for a fulfilling life, then why cling to any other norm that rose out of patriarchy?
So be honest with yourself about your dating objective and don't waste your energy getting annoyed at the "might want kids" answer. It's basically the default for the majority of childless men. They usually haven't given it much thought. Women don't have that luxury.
If you are currently your best self, a whole and complete person, who embodies everything you are looking for in a partner, and are ready for a lasting relationship with a like-minded person, then just skip over these dudes and don't bother getting annoyed about who doesn't meet your criteria. It's extra hard to find your perfect person when you are in a minority demographic. You have to accept that.
But if you are not genuinely in that place, then chill out and have some fun while you work toward becoming that more realized version of yourself. Go ahead and swipe right. You can have some fun adventures on that journey. In fact, those adventures can help you reach your higher self faster. Just be honest with yourself and your romantic interests.
>Honestly I am surprised that this sub leans so heavily toward committed partnership and every trapping of the traditional nuclear family, save for the kids.
Right?? It's weird i had to scroll so far down to see someone even mention the *possibility* that dating apps could just be for fun and not searching for a serious long-term partner.
I refuse to date parents casually or even hook up because personally i just find the idea of parenthood gross so it would automatically make the person unattractive to me, but i have no problem having casual dates or hook ups with people who aren't CF and just dont have kids yet. I have zero interest in a serious relationship right now, so the whether or not someone wants kids is completely irrelevant. So why limit myself? Even if i was dating only CF people, im not planning on marrying them either so it really doesnt matter.
I dont see any reason why CF people cant date fencesitters if you're not looking for a serious relationship or life partner. And most people on dating apps (especially if you're under 30) aren't looking for something serious.
Not to mention this sub seems to conveniently ignore the possibility of polyamory with all the Gold Star CF posting. It is absolutely 100% possible to have zero "parental" interaction with a person's kid if they aren't your cohabitating partner. I'm not automatically a step parent to my poly GF's kid. The kid doesn't think of me any differently than any other friend who comes over sometimes to visit his mom.
Yeah, I was thinking polyamory without saying it out loud!
And I had a chuckle at the phrase "Gold Star CF." Spot on. It's harmful. But predictable, I guess. Most people need so badly to feel some sense of superiority when they are marginalized, that they don't even realize they're actually propping up patriarchal norms they \*think\* they're rejecting. It's hard to see when you're filled with resentment.
I am hopeful we see more folks unpacking that here and the energy of this sub shifts with a bit more time.
sometimes i think ppl answer those questions differently than they actually feel, so they stay in more people's search results. i'd still look at the profile and if everything else looked awesome, invite a conversation and then get to the real info.
I've met people who predictably said "I love my partner, but when I had my first child, that connection is just ten times stronger. I can't even compare the love I have for my partner with that of my child, I would do ANYTHING for them blablabla."
But I've also heard statements from men AND women who said they lost 20 years of their lives and no matter how much you try to inspire or educate your kids they stay dumbasses until life has thrown them for enough curves. After the last ingrate asshole child finally found a place to stay the couples are now so happy to be alone again, but now they are nearing 50 and getting tired, so they feel cheated.
Personally, I wouldn't want to have a child today that will get skin cancer from the 200% stronger sun fifteen years from now.
I'm 43 and I will look until I find a lady that's 38-40 and young-at-heart and then together we'll write a story that is one for the books.
"Hoping you have at least one match a day". Lol. Tell me you're a woman without telling me you're a woman.
But in all seriousness: People tend to not read you bio anyways. So don't bother. Just tell them as soon as you start to chat.
I would be curious if they don’t want kids and just put that to appeal to more people. Like they would be willing to have a child with the right person but prefer not to.
>being ok as Childfree
Awful. Just awful.
You shouldn't date someone who is 'okay without kids'. You need someone who is 'NOT OKAY with kids'.
Most people who are 'okay without kids' are either people who repress their baby fever at first, but who cannot keep doing so forever... Then, they will leave you for a breeder, pressure you to breed or baby trap you...
... Or even worse, and fucking common... They are liars who said that they are 'okay without kids'. They dated you under the assumption that you would change your mind. They never took your childfreedom seriously.
Really, stay the fuck away from fence sitters. 'Okay without kids', 'okay either way', 'okay with childfreedom', 'would rather be with you than have kids' etc. is NOT childfree.
Fence sitters are almost always future breeders.
Lots of girls say they don’t want kids. Then they get into their late twenties and start freaking the fuck out. It’s inevitable. I’d say guys would usually be much easier to get to commit to no kids and actually mean it.
>I’d say guys would usually be much easier to get to commit to no kids and actually mean it.
Are you fucking serious? Plenty of men end up wanting kids because of Kodak moments. They don't have to be pregnant, give birth or do all the childcare. They just let their girlfriend/wife do all the work, so it's easy for men to want kids.
Men change their mind way more often than women. There are way more childfree women than childfree men.
Men don’t have a biological ticking clock though. They (generally) don’t get the same urgent need for a baby that lots of women get late in their 20s…I think. I’m not a researcher, so I’m just speculating based on my experiences.
>Men don’t have a biological ticking clock though.
Neither do women.
The biological clock does not exist. It's a patriarchal myth that was made up to pressure women into breeding.
If women are constantly told that their clock is ticking, and that they must breed... Well, sadly, some women end up believing that. But there is no such thing as a biological clock. It's societal pressure.
>They (generally) don’t get the same urgent need for a baby that lots of women get late in their 20s…
Plenty of men do. And plenty of women don't.
Childfree women tend to be more firm than childfree men, generally speaking.
I used to give them a chance. I was on the fence about kids when I first started online dating. My fiancé and I (who I met on Tinder 4.5 yrs. ago) grew into our child free identities together.
People can change their minds or may be on the fence, so if you otherwise like everything you see, I'd give them a shot.
This doesn't include folks who give kid obsessed vibes since they will likely not change/evolve their ideas on having children.
seems like an unpopular opinion here, but no i don't immediately swipe left on fencesitters. at this stage in my life, i am not interested in any sort of serious or long-term relationship that would lead to cohabitation or marriage, even with a staunchly CF person. So why does it matter if someone wants kids or not? As long as they're not already a parent or trying to have kids ASAP, i'm open to it. Casual dates, short flings, and hookups with non-CF people is cool with me. i'm not gonna severely limit my dating pool to only CF people right now when that isn't gonna matter for the types of relationships im looking for.
if you're trying to find a life partner or spouse, yeah i would be picky and avoid the fencesitters. but in pretty much any other situation, i don't see an issue with considering them.
As a guy, I just left swipe or if you pay for bumble and hinge, set as filter. Even if it takes me ages to get a match, better to wait than get a match so soon and then find they want kids later on down the line. There was a r/LifeProTips that was along the lines of establish these things as early as possible so that you are less disappointed if the date doesn't work out earlier on.
That's difficult, because I didn't meet my now husband on a dating app. However our second date, we discussed wanting kids or not. His initial response was "I'm not sure I'd say I want them, but always figured I'd have them because my wife would want them". Not a great answer, but keep in mind, just like women some men see kids as inevitable because of society. I remember the eye opening moment of "I don't HAVE to have kids??".
However if you want someone to be as sure as you are sure, then they aren't for you!
Oh yeah, they go LEFT to the gas chamber.
Although, in my age group, which is over 40, those profiles are fewer and fewer. Now it's the ones with older kids, which is SORT of okay as long as they live far, far away.
I can live with "open to the idea" which is a pretty non committal maybe. If we were to meet up and hit it off, they can get a taste of just how hard CF I am. If that's a dealbreaker for them, welp, I warned ya.
I'm also a bit out of the ordinary in the sense that I value whatever time I have with this person (and life on earth in general) so I'm not going to be disappointed if we don't ride off into the sunset together.
No, because I've found that most of those people are just ok with being step parents, but there isn't a button for that. I'm 42 and have yet to find someone without kids who "might want them" who minds that I don't want them. I have a problem with the "has kids doesn't want more" group, who don't respect that I'm not a rearing partner.
IMO that is weird they bring it up at all in profile.
I don’t want kids but was on fence in mid 30s. I went on date with guy and at his place after great date, he said he had vasectomy n idk why but it was such a turn off for me. Even though at that point I was pretty sure I could not have kids from surgery. Idk why it repelled me. But it did.
Pass. That being said, I missed the whole dating on apps thing. I married a fence sitter. We’ve been together for 10 years now. Ideally, he would’ve been staunchly childfree before I even considered him, but I hadn’t really ratified my childfree philosophies at that point in my life. I knew I definitely didn’t want kids, but I hadn’t developed any dating policies.
I’ll always keep my mind the fact that he could change his mind. We communicate well and often about everything, and he is adamant that he does not want kids. His decision is driven by the fact that they just don’t fit in with our profession/lifestyle. We both love our profession and lifestyle. He admits that he doesn’t think the would be completely miserable living a life with kids whereas I know I would be.
With my current constitution, I would’ve never even taken a chance on him, but we got together before I even knew there was a term for what I was. I told him right up front. Our relationship developed organically. As a condition of our relationship, there’ll always be a 5% (don’t check my math) chance that he’ll change his mind which will end our relationship. I don’t live in fear of that. I’m pretty confident he won’t, but I know the chance is there. We’ll see.
I’m not advocating for dating fence sitters. Just sharing a case in which, for at least 10 years, it has worked out.
Instant left swipe for me
Same. I’m 39F and I constantly see mid-late 30s to 40s men that “aren’t sure” about kids. If you aren’t sure by this age… instant left swipe and never looking back. There’s no way a person doesn’t know. They absolutely have to be fishing for the 20-something’s… so my 39 year old ass ain’t it.
I believe that numerous individuals may not firmly align themselves with either perspective, so they tend to express uncertainty to maximize their options. By saying neither a definitive yes nor a definitive no, they avoid eliminating potential matches who either desire or do not want children. It's plausible that their main objective is to find a compatible partner and they would be content in either situation. In my opinion, a first date could potentially clarify these matters.
Hey, I really appreciate you sharing your perspective about men being content with either outcome. I’m (33F) CF and struggling right now with my bf (33M) of almost two years who presented himself as “open to long term stuff like kids and marriage”. I stated online to him that I do not want children but do want to get married. In the last few months he seems to be wavering more and leaning towards the have-kids side. Talking about helping pay to freeze my eggs, how we have all the “right ingredients” to be great parents, and maybe we should just go to a fertility clinic and check if we’re even able to have kids. It’s fucking with my mind because now I have this 0.1% of doubt in my mind about being CF. Has that doubt always been there? Is it there because he’s slowly introducing it? Am I doing a final mental check because of BS societal pressure about my “biological clock”? Was he originally OK with both outcomes or did he lie thinking I would change my mind? Your perspective helps me see that he could have originally come from a non-malicious place and has been slowly coming down on the other side of the fence from me. How someone is 33 and doesn’t know what they want baffles me, but I try and rest easy knowing I was crystal clear about not wanting kids from the beginning and brought it up multiple times since then. I’m starting therapy again tomorrow and am hoping he can attend a few sessions with me at some point. I’ve made a deadline in my head that if we don’t have this sorted / decided by the end of our lease in June of next year I’ll have to leave :(
Therapy can be beneficial in this situation. It can provide valuable insights and a fresh perspective. It's possible that your partner is content with both sides of the decision, but societal pressures may have influenced him to lean towards another direction. Men often face external pressures regarding parenthood and the continuation of their lineage. It's important to have an honest conversation with your partner about his motivations for his recent change of heart. It's worth noting that the "quarterlife crisis" is a recognized phenomenon, similar to the well-known midlife crisis. As your partner settles into the relationship, achieves financial stability, and becomes comfortable in his career, he may start questioning his future and seeking new experiences. The uncertainty about what lies ahead may lead him to consider having children as a natural progression, even if he hasn't fully explored or defined his desires. It's common for individuals to struggle with leaving things unchanged and to feel compelled to take action. By exploring these complex emotions together and seeking professional guidance, you can navigate this situation with greater clarity and understanding.
You're noticing him bringing this stuff up and does it give you icky feelings? Also if I was you in your shoes are you entertaining the kids idea as a way to not lose him? (Potentially sacrificing your happiness to keep him) But if it feels like more of a contemplative moment and not definite no you are allowed to change your mind. Heck, even try experimenting with how you feel if you did go to the fertility clinic. Or, just go and see what happens. See his reactions and yours if you want. I don't see the harm in finding out and viewing the options from that perspective. If the tubes are already bisalped though, like mine... I could do IVF but not sure I like the idea of messing with the hormones. I'm avoiding cancer lol. Plus tokophobia. Wishing you insight, OP! I know this is a tough thing we have to deal with. ❤️
To me that just sounds like they're trying to not eliminate potentials for sex rather than find the right partner.
Very possible
This is actually me. I've been in a CF relationship for almost 4 years now, but when I was on dating sites I always left it empty. But I am different. I'm probably less CF than most here in, but I think a lot of guys adopt the same idea. Because as a guy even if you don't want kids there is nothing stopping your partner from changing their minds if they get pregnant. My biggest fear is being "baby-trapped" in a poor relationship. I could be open to having one singular child, if I met the perfect person who really did want a single child aswell. Just my standpoint.
I love your perspective on this and believe the same!
That's so sad/weird to see.
Its a no for me. I woulnt want to waste my times on maybe's. I would rather wait for the right person.
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That's not surprising. First of all, most people only look at your profile picture and never read your profile. And even worse, you are literally telling breeders what lie they need to tell you in order to date you. Some advice... You really should NOT mention your childfreedom on your dating profile. You should also NEVER be upfront. Like, NEVER say something like: "Hey, I'm childfree. What about you?" Why not? If you mention your childfreedom on your dating profile or if you are upfront about your childfreedom, you are telling breeders exactly what lie they need to tell you in order to date you. Too many breeders, especialy breeder men, will lie and pretend to be childfree, and wait for the childfree person to change their mind. If you are upfront, you are making things extremely easy for them. Am I victim blaming people who were upfront and whose breeder partner lied about being childfree for years? No. Of course the breeder is the arsehole who lied, while the childfree person was honest. But yeah, since breeders lie all the time, childfree people need to protect themselves by screening. Screening. You need to screen. What does that mean? Basically, you need to get the other person to reveal their stance before you reveal your childfreedom. That way, if the other person doesn't know whether you want kids or not, they can't lie and tell you what you want to hear. That way, you will get a honest answer. For more information about screening during the early stages of dating, read this: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 11nevtk / when\_dating\_stop\_being\_upfront\_about\_childfreedom And most importantly, you really need to read u/thr0wfaraway's complete, elaborate screening guide: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 9xo6jw / screening\_starter\_kit\_the\_reprise And please make sure that you only date childfree people. And no, 'okay without kids', 'okay either way' or 'I would rather be with you than have kids' is NOT childfree! People who say those things want kids. They either pretend to be 'okay without kids' and wait for you to change your mind... Or they truly think that they are okay without kids, until they are no longer okay without kids. Instead of someone who is 'okay without kids', you need someone who is 'NOT OKAY with kids'.
i wish i could upvote this a million times. revealing your childfree stance gives the other person (male or female) the opportunity to lie in order get what they want (whatever that is). learning how to screen will yield the best results. asking the right open ended questions will give you the answers you’re looking for.
People here act as if being upfront is a good thing. But it's not. It's fucking stupid, fucking naive and fucking delusional. If you choose to be upfront, you will probably end up with a lying breeder.
the only time i think being upfront work is if you’re a man. ONLY because typically (definitely not always) women who want kids won’t waste time with men who don’t. but being a woman, men can (and will) lie because they have time to spare and it doesn’t effect them as much.
It's true that breeder men are way way way more likely to lie than breeder women. However, the reason isn't just what you described. It's also male entitlement. Patriarchal male entitlement. When men want kids, they feel entitled to having them with their current partner. They will pressure her until she succumbs. Meanwhile, women are much more likely to break up and look for a breeder partner. Anyways, that being said, I do NOT recommend men to be upfront. There have been plenty of posts from men whose girlfriend/wife lied to them about being childfree. Of course men are way more likely to lead women on than the other way around, but still. No matter what gender you are and what gender you are attracted to, being upfront is fucking stupid and fucking naive.
totally fair! no disagreements from me
🥲
I agree. I have that children are non negotiable for me. Then I would get men that would hit me up that “already have kids and don’t want any more”… so I had to explicitly put in my profile “I also do not want to be a step mom”…. People DGAF I still have men with kids littering my inbox. Either they don’t read my profile, OR they read it and don’t care.
Instant no from me. Why would I get with someone who doesn't want me?
I only swipe on don't want. If you're around my age and don't know what you want, hard pass. Edit: And I try to ask early on what level of cf they are, some people might not want their own but love being the "cool aunt" and will be baby sitting all the time.
It's me, I'm the cool aunt. I love the littles, but absolutely do NOT want any. Fortunately my loved ones don't abuse my love for their kiddos, so they try to find other babysitters and do offer me money or other compensation instead of assuming it's a free service I'll do anytime and everytime. Great idea seeking that clarification. Dating is hard.
Yes, I don't want to waste my time and theirs.
It’s one of the things I’m considering when swiping.
Yep, well I did for the month I was on them. Childfree is the one and only dealbreaker for me (39m) I have no interest in fence sitters as id want a serious relationship.
Instant pass. They're always a waste of time
I feel like "doesn't have kids and might want them" or more specifically "unsure if I want kids" is just them trying to get as many matches from as many woman as possible by trying to appeal to both sides
Also, I feel like they shouldn't be unsure by the time they're like 25. If you're dating as a fully grown adult and looking for a long-term partner, I feel like making that decision is one of the first steps to take when you're preparing yourself to date.
I married a man I met on a dating site. 9 years. No kids. Did not want kids was in his profile, solidified through an early relationship conversation.
Yup. Hope you find what you're looking for homie, lemme just go ahead and take me out of the running. There! You're 1 person closer!
I'm married now, but if I were ever single again, that'd be a hard pass for me, for sure. I am 100% childfree, and am snipped, so it's literally not something I even want to entertain a discussion about. I am never going to change my mind. It's a hard no from me.
If we’re talking about the bee app. Wants someday - swipe left (I don’t feel like getting into a relationship with a definite end date) Have and want more - swipe left (for obvious reasons) Have and don’t want more - swipe left (for obvious reasons) Not sure yet - swipe left (my age range is 30-45 and at those ages you really should know one way or the other. Especially if you’re the one that society deems that you will be the one mostly responsible for them) Have kids - swipe left (for obvious reasons) Open to kids - swipe left (I’m not even sure what that means. Either way, I’m pretty much closed to having kids (there’s always some hypothetical doomsday scenario where I might be open to kids, but that’s a .0000000001% chance of that happening)) Blank - swipe right but proceed with caution. (Edit forgot one) Don’t want - swipe right
I could have written this myself haha I really hate the Open to Kids option. Too ambiguous. I treat it on the same level as "Not sure yet"
Fence sitters is a huge no. Because they will try to change your mind/expect you to change your mind. So big nope.
PASS
nope, pass, i'd rather be with someone serious about being childfree than someone who can't make up their mind, and if i can't have the first one, i'd rather be single.
Same here
I'd pass. It's not fair to them anymore than it is you.
>And honestly idk if I should just pass on all them? Why the fuck would you not pass on those? Most fence sitters end up wanting kids. When you meet a fence sitter, it's safe to treat them as if they are breeders. Fence sitters are fence sitters. Not childfree people. Childfree people should only date other childfree people. And no, 'okay without kids', 'would rather be with you than have kids' or 'okay either way' is NOT childfree! If you date a fence sitter and hope that they turn out to be childfree, your heart will be broken. Most fence sitters are breeders. Yes, even fence sitters who lean towards childfreedom. Yes, even if they say that they are 'okay without kids' and that they would 'rather be with you than have kids'. People who say that are either lying, or they will say that now but can't repress their baby fever forever. If a childfree person who dates a fence sitter is stupid and naive, they might even move in with them. Or even worse, get married. Then, they will inevitably tell you that they want kids, which you should've known from the start. Then, they hope that you will surrender to their baby fever in order to avoid a breakup. Some childfree people are delusional enough to do this, thanks to the sunk cost fallacy. Their lives are ruined forever. >Do you give them a chance and communicate your seriousness of your choice? That is fucking stupid and fucking naive. Most fence sitters won't believe that you are serious about childfreedom. They are convinced that you will change your mind and go along with their baby fever. But okay, let's imagine that they seem to believe that you are serious about childfreedom... They want kids, but they say that they are 'okay without kids' and say that they would 'rather be with you than have kids'... \- Most people who say that are liars who are waiting for the childfree person to change their mind. \- And even if they are honest, a relationship won't work. They will have to repress their baby fever and will end up resenting you. Childfree people need to avoid people who are 'okay without kids'. Instead, childfree people need to date someone who is 'NOT OKAY with kids'. Only date childfree people. Stay the fuck away from fence sitters and breeders!
>Why the fuck would you not pass on those? Because not everybody is looking for a life partner on dating apps? I totally agree with everything you're saying for anyone dating with serious intentions and looking for a long term relationship that would lead to marriage or a similar situation. But let's be real, a LOT of people on dating apps are not looking for anything like that. I don't think it's stupid or naive for a young CF person to swipe right on a fencesitter for a potential hook-up, a few dates, and/or a casual short-term relationship like a summer fling or something. You're not going to be having kids in that time frame, so why does it matter? I can see there would be a clash in values between a CFer and someone who *really* wants kids even for a short term thing, but i think plenty of CFers and fencesitters could have perfectly fine temporary, non-serious, short term relations like if you're just trying to go on a couple dates for fun.
>Because not everybody is looking for a life partner on dating apps? I know that, but this post was about serious relationships. Not about casual dating. Also, when it comes to casual dating, I would not recommend dating non-childfree people. First of all, what if you fall in love? You can intend to stick to casual dating, but many casual arrangements turn into serious relationships. Many people will end up ignoring the incompatibility and will end up in a relationship with a breeder or fence sitter. These people often end up posting here about the heartbreaking breakup which both partners keep delaying for years. Sometimes, they even say: "Don't tell me to break up!" Sometimes, the childfree person even surrenders to the fence sitter's baby fever to avoid a breakup. Sunken cost fallacy... They don't realise that the relationship will be dead when there is a child. No more romance. No more sex. And when it comes to sex, even just casual... If you are an unsnippd childfree man sleeping with a breeder or fence sitter woman, you know that she most likely won't abort an accidental pregnancy. So you are one broken condom away from fatherhood. And if you are a childfree woman, I really hope that you have access to abortion and enough money to pay for an abortion and, if needed, a trip to another country or state. A fence sitter or breeder man might very well baby trap you, hoping that you will stay with him and become his free sex slave and housemaid.
>First of all, what if you fall in love? You can intend to stick to casual dating, but many casual arrangements turn into serious relationships. I already addressed this in my first comment. Why do you not believe that other people who disagree with you can have their own free will and volition? There's nothing wrong with preferring not to casually date non-CF people if that's what you want, but why do you care if other people wanna do that? Acting like its always gonna end in a disaster is ridiculous. Falling in love doesn't happen by accident and emotions are not completely out of our control. If i end up in a situation that i feel is getting too serious with someone who isn't staunchly CF, i will end it. Though i highly doubt i would even end up in such a situation since im at a stage in my career where it is basically impossible that i would have enough time to dedicate to relationship for it to become that serious. Which is why i feel that my dating habits are fine. I definitely don't think that all CF people are in a situation where doing what i am doing is okay. But for circumstances like mine, it's fine and i dont need others to preach at me that i cant handle this. You don't know other people and their lives, we're not all helpless romantics at the whim of "love." Adults can make their own decisions. I dont why you have to assume i'm stupid and havent thought this through. I use high quality birth control and a live in a country where abortion is widely & easily accessible and free. Obviously i would be considering things differently if i lived somewhere where women don't have bodily autonomy, i'm not an idiot.
>Why do you not believe that other people who disagree with you can have their own free will and volition? I do believe that, but you just had to put words in my mouth... >There's nothing wrong with preferring not to casually date non-CF people if that's what you want, but why do you care if other people wanna do that? I never said that you cannot do that. However, people need to be aware of the risks. >Falling in love doesn't happen by accident and emotions are not completely out of our control. If i end up in a situation that i feel is getting too serious with someone who isn't staunchly CF, i will end it. Yes, you would end it. And so would I if I was in that situation. However, not everyone would. Plenty of people on this subreddit ended up falling for a fence sitter or breeder, ignored the incompatibility, entered a relationship... And years later, they go through a heartbreaking breakup or even end up breeding to keep their partner. I think it's much safer to just avoid dating breeders and fence sitters, even casually. >But for circumstances like mine, it's fine and i dont need others to preach at me that i cant handle this. I believe that you can handle this. But I have seen so so so many posts from people here who clearly cannot. You are taking my comments way too personally. This is not about you as an individual. My comment was directed at childfree people in general. And my comment is advice. My opinion. You don't have to follow it if you don't want to. >I dont know why you have to assume i'm stupid and havent thought this through. I am not assuming that... >I use high quality birth control and a live in a country where abortion is widely & easily accessible and free. Obviously i would be considering things differently if i lived somewhere where women don't have bodily autonomy, i'm not an idiot. Again, my comments were about childfree people in general. Not about you as an individual. You are fortunate enough to have bodily autonomy, but many other people do not.
I don’t know, I make it very clear I’ll never want kids so they would be wasting their time with me if they did 🤷♂️
I only swipe right if I just wanna hook up. I’ll never make the mistake of dating a fence sitter again.
Any hint of them wanting kids is an instant no. I need mind reading so I can also reject those who are lying about being CF.
It’s important to note that if you’re a women seeking a man on tinder or other apps, that most likely they will either not want to give a solid answer in their profile to not scare away potential partners or they will flat out lie (say whatever they think women want to here). There really is no way to know until you know them…
Absolutely. Don't waste your time.
Pass them up. We’re all adults and it’s something people should be honest with others and especially themselves about if they’re looking for something serious or long term. Careers can change, people can move states or even countries but bringing another life into the world is something people shouldn’t be fence sitting on. TLDR: no, they’re indecisive about something serious
i can see this argument for older people, but why cant young adults be unsure about a major decision like this? if you're like 22 and fresh out of college yeah you're an adult but its completely reasonable to not be 100% about a huge decision like not wanting kids or not. You don't have much life experience yet, so how are you supposed to be sure about something like that? Some people know from a young age (i get it, i've been CF since i was like 12), but a lot of others don't. It's not a bad thing to not have your whole life figured out in your 20s. If you're 35 and still unsure yeah that's super weird and a red flag, but if you're under like 27 i wouldnt say its wrong or bad to still be fencesitting.
I agree, probably should have included age. No matter what, rushing into having them or being reckless and risking pregnancy is always terrible
I usually swipe left, but I'm also a picky bitch and swipe left on most everyone 🤣💀 I also swipe left if they don't answer the kid question, because I assume they already have one or more and don't want to admit it
Instant no. They either probably do want kids, whether they know that now or whether once they 'settle down' they think it's something they 'should' do. I think the 'maybes' are so they don't scare off women by saying 'yes they want kids' as that seems too serious/too upfront and they don't want to put off women who want something more casual and/or are on the fence themselves. Bearing in mind, this is from my female mid-20s age range perspective. Fwiw, every guy I swiped with on the maybe, when in hearing I want cats not kids, were instant bingo'ing me.
“Doesn’t have children and doesn’t want them.” Is the only acceptable answer to me.
i tried to chatgpt my way to writing a dating bio with the mention of me being cf and breeders were still swiping right on me. cant even ai them away
Some advice... You really should NOT mention your childfreedom on your dating profile. You should also NEVER be upfront. Like, NEVER say something like: "Hey, I'm childfree. What about you?" Why not? If you mention your childfreedom on your dating profile or if you are upfront about your childfreedom, you are telling breeders exactly what lie they need to tell you in order to date you. Too many breeders, especialy breeder men, will lie and pretend to be childfree, and wait for the childfree person to change their mind. If you are upfront, you are making things extremely easy for them. Am I victim blaming people who were upfront and whose breeder partner lied about being childfree for years? No. Of course the breeder is the arsehole who lied, while the childfree person was honest. But yeah, since breeders lie all the time, childfree people need to protect themselves by screening. Screening. You need to screen. What does that mean? Basically, you need to get the other person to reveal their stance before you reveal your childfreedom. That way, if the other person doesn't know whether you want kids or not, they can't lie and tell you what you want to hear. That way, you will get a honest answer. For more information about screening during the early stages of dating, read this: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 11nevtk / when\_dating\_stop\_being\_upfront\_about\_childfreedom And most importantly, you really need to read u/thr0wfaraway's complete, elaborate screening guide: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 9xo6jw / screening\_starter\_kit\_the\_reprise And please make sure that you only date childfree people. And no, 'okay without kids', 'okay either way' or 'I would rather be with you than have kids' is NOT childfree! People who say those things want kids. They either pretend to be 'okay without kids' and wait for you to change your mind... Or they truly think that they are okay without kids, until they are no longer okay without kids. Instead of someone who is 'okay without kids', you need someone who is 'NOT OKAY with kids'.
I pass them. It would be heartbreaking for everyone involved to end up in a situation where they realize they do have that deep wish, because I'm 1000% sure I don't. I don't want to end up there. May they find a better match who can be with them on that fence.
Yes, instant pass
Yeah because I would respect someone more for being upfront about wanting children than someone that is wishy washy about it. At least i know what the wanting baby is about so i can definitively say no. The on the fence one will be a headache. Me side eyeing them see when they will manipulate me into having children.
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That's what i said. Op asked "do you guys pass on dating ..." and I responded "Yeah because ..." I'm just explaining what would happen if i date a fence sitter. So that why i just say i would pass.
When I had a dating profile, I was very specific. No minor children and no long distance relationships. I added a paragraph at the end that said anyone dismisses these parameters. Obviously, did not READ my profile and will be blocked. 1/3 of them were from the East Coast and Midwest - I am West Coast.
Hard pass lol
I would never date someone who isn’t completely childfree
I pass on them only because I'm 100% certain I don't want kids. Either they are going to compromise for me and not have them and regret it OR I will have to to end a potentially serious relationship down the line because they decide "wait I actually do want kids" and want someone who will give them that. I'm not compromising and having 'just one' to make someone else happy so I don't want to be with someone who might one day expect me to or decides to leave me.
I definitely would. Might want them, sound like "I want them in the future" to me. I know some people really aren't sure or are leaning towards no or really don't care whether they have them or not. But if you put on your profile that you 'might' want them, I will just assume that you want them. And I want to prevent breaking up much later because they suddenly want to have children, as much as I possibly can. It's not always possible because some people lie or change their mind. But if they already say 'might', then there is a much bigger chance. I don't want to waste my time falling for someone and building a life with the perfect person, only to find out that we have to break up because they're not as perfect as I thought they were.
I’d rather be single than be in a relationship with someone who isn’t on the same page as I am regarding kids. There are things in my life that I am willing to compromise on. You can’t compromise on kids.
I was brutally blunt on my profile. I had interactions with some women who didn't have kids, but weren't parents. They were fun, but never went anywhere My woman is very child-free, but had kept her profile neutral so that she didn't come across as some ranting harpy (like me!) The profiles that say they might want kids, I'd skip. The ones that gave the air of "I don't want 'em, but society is cruel to CF women" I'd go for It worked out extremely well
I give them a chance to explain their take and move on from there. Some are CF and just have issues coming out publicly with it and I think we all here can relate to that. On the other hand some are indeed fence sitters. Hence why I think it's at least worth investigating. Won't lose anything finding out.
It depends on what you are looking for. If you want a serious commitment with someone who is absolutely not a fence-sitter, then swipe left. If you are casually dating for fun, who cares? The only reason they're choosing this option is to cast a wider net. Not everyone you date needs to be your ideal partner. I actually do date men with children because they don't much affect me. I am not trying to be in a LTR and I never meet their kids. Men can be as much work as a child anyway, and I have taken cohabitation off the table. And TBH divorced daddies can be real sweethearts. Honestly I am surprised that this sub leans so heavily toward committed partnership and every trapping of the traditional nuclear family, save for the kids. And women can be so particular about men ticking a bunch of perfect boxes because they think every relationship is a trial run for marriage. Women are afraid to date casually because it's somehow not honorable and/or harmful to their value as a future wife. If you have liberated yourself from the idea that children are necessary for a fulfilling life, then why cling to any other norm that rose out of patriarchy? So be honest with yourself about your dating objective and don't waste your energy getting annoyed at the "might want kids" answer. It's basically the default for the majority of childless men. They usually haven't given it much thought. Women don't have that luxury. If you are currently your best self, a whole and complete person, who embodies everything you are looking for in a partner, and are ready for a lasting relationship with a like-minded person, then just skip over these dudes and don't bother getting annoyed about who doesn't meet your criteria. It's extra hard to find your perfect person when you are in a minority demographic. You have to accept that. But if you are not genuinely in that place, then chill out and have some fun while you work toward becoming that more realized version of yourself. Go ahead and swipe right. You can have some fun adventures on that journey. In fact, those adventures can help you reach your higher self faster. Just be honest with yourself and your romantic interests.
I honestly can’t see me cohabiting again either, my own space/castle is hugely important to me
>Honestly I am surprised that this sub leans so heavily toward committed partnership and every trapping of the traditional nuclear family, save for the kids. Right?? It's weird i had to scroll so far down to see someone even mention the *possibility* that dating apps could just be for fun and not searching for a serious long-term partner. I refuse to date parents casually or even hook up because personally i just find the idea of parenthood gross so it would automatically make the person unattractive to me, but i have no problem having casual dates or hook ups with people who aren't CF and just dont have kids yet. I have zero interest in a serious relationship right now, so the whether or not someone wants kids is completely irrelevant. So why limit myself? Even if i was dating only CF people, im not planning on marrying them either so it really doesnt matter. I dont see any reason why CF people cant date fencesitters if you're not looking for a serious relationship or life partner. And most people on dating apps (especially if you're under 30) aren't looking for something serious.
Not to mention this sub seems to conveniently ignore the possibility of polyamory with all the Gold Star CF posting. It is absolutely 100% possible to have zero "parental" interaction with a person's kid if they aren't your cohabitating partner. I'm not automatically a step parent to my poly GF's kid. The kid doesn't think of me any differently than any other friend who comes over sometimes to visit his mom.
Yeah, I was thinking polyamory without saying it out loud! And I had a chuckle at the phrase "Gold Star CF." Spot on. It's harmful. But predictable, I guess. Most people need so badly to feel some sense of superiority when they are marginalized, that they don't even realize they're actually propping up patriarchal norms they \*think\* they're rejecting. It's hard to see when you're filled with resentment. I am hopeful we see more folks unpacking that here and the energy of this sub shifts with a bit more time.
sometimes i think ppl answer those questions differently than they actually feel, so they stay in more people's search results. i'd still look at the profile and if everything else looked awesome, invite a conversation and then get to the real info.
I've met people who predictably said "I love my partner, but when I had my first child, that connection is just ten times stronger. I can't even compare the love I have for my partner with that of my child, I would do ANYTHING for them blablabla." But I've also heard statements from men AND women who said they lost 20 years of their lives and no matter how much you try to inspire or educate your kids they stay dumbasses until life has thrown them for enough curves. After the last ingrate asshole child finally found a place to stay the couples are now so happy to be alone again, but now they are nearing 50 and getting tired, so they feel cheated. Personally, I wouldn't want to have a child today that will get skin cancer from the 200% stronger sun fifteen years from now. I'm 43 and I will look until I find a lady that's 38-40 and young-at-heart and then together we'll write a story that is one for the books.
"Hoping you have at least one match a day". Lol. Tell me you're a woman without telling me you're a woman. But in all seriousness: People tend to not read you bio anyways. So don't bother. Just tell them as soon as you start to chat.
I would be curious if they don’t want kids and just put that to appeal to more people. Like they would be willing to have a child with the right person but prefer not to.
I am against the grain, and do not immediately pass but if it gets to vibing the conversation of being ok as Childfree is brought up pretty fast.
>being ok as Childfree Awful. Just awful. You shouldn't date someone who is 'okay without kids'. You need someone who is 'NOT OKAY with kids'. Most people who are 'okay without kids' are either people who repress their baby fever at first, but who cannot keep doing so forever... Then, they will leave you for a breeder, pressure you to breed or baby trap you... ... Or even worse, and fucking common... They are liars who said that they are 'okay without kids'. They dated you under the assumption that you would change your mind. They never took your childfreedom seriously. Really, stay the fuck away from fence sitters. 'Okay without kids', 'okay either way', 'okay with childfreedom', 'would rather be with you than have kids' etc. is NOT childfree. Fence sitters are almost always future breeders.
I say that I eventually I might want kids but eventually find it hard to do that when I can barely take care of myself
Lots of girls say they don’t want kids. Then they get into their late twenties and start freaking the fuck out. It’s inevitable. I’d say guys would usually be much easier to get to commit to no kids and actually mean it.
>I’d say guys would usually be much easier to get to commit to no kids and actually mean it. Are you fucking serious? Plenty of men end up wanting kids because of Kodak moments. They don't have to be pregnant, give birth or do all the childcare. They just let their girlfriend/wife do all the work, so it's easy for men to want kids. Men change their mind way more often than women. There are way more childfree women than childfree men.
Men don’t have a biological ticking clock though. They (generally) don’t get the same urgent need for a baby that lots of women get late in their 20s…I think. I’m not a researcher, so I’m just speculating based on my experiences.
>Men don’t have a biological ticking clock though. Neither do women. The biological clock does not exist. It's a patriarchal myth that was made up to pressure women into breeding. If women are constantly told that their clock is ticking, and that they must breed... Well, sadly, some women end up believing that. But there is no such thing as a biological clock. It's societal pressure. >They (generally) don’t get the same urgent need for a baby that lots of women get late in their 20s… Plenty of men do. And plenty of women don't. Childfree women tend to be more firm than childfree men, generally speaking.
It's easier for guys to want kids because they don't have to deal with the bullshit that is pregnancy.
Yes
I'm fundamentally incompatible with a fence sitter, so i wouldn't consider them for anything other than a sneaky-link.
I used to give them a chance. I was on the fence about kids when I first started online dating. My fiancé and I (who I met on Tinder 4.5 yrs. ago) grew into our child free identities together. People can change their minds or may be on the fence, so if you otherwise like everything you see, I'd give them a shot. This doesn't include folks who give kid obsessed vibes since they will likely not change/evolve their ideas on having children.
There's dating sites for everything nowadays, there's gotta be one for people who don't want kids, and if not, someone can make one.
Yep
It's so hard because you're looking online...
Thank you, next. I will not have anyone mess with my peace. It's a hill I'm willing to die on.
Yes pass
To the left to the left...
It’s an immediate swipe left for me. I can’t take the risk of wasting anyone’s time, least of all mine.
seems like an unpopular opinion here, but no i don't immediately swipe left on fencesitters. at this stage in my life, i am not interested in any sort of serious or long-term relationship that would lead to cohabitation or marriage, even with a staunchly CF person. So why does it matter if someone wants kids or not? As long as they're not already a parent or trying to have kids ASAP, i'm open to it. Casual dates, short flings, and hookups with non-CF people is cool with me. i'm not gonna severely limit my dating pool to only CF people right now when that isn't gonna matter for the types of relationships im looking for. if you're trying to find a life partner or spouse, yeah i would be picky and avoid the fencesitters. but in pretty much any other situation, i don't see an issue with considering them.
As a guy, I just left swipe or if you pay for bumble and hinge, set as filter. Even if it takes me ages to get a match, better to wait than get a match so soon and then find they want kids later on down the line. There was a r/LifeProTips that was along the lines of establish these things as early as possible so that you are less disappointed if the date doesn't work out earlier on.
Hard pass. Lol
That's difficult, because I didn't meet my now husband on a dating app. However our second date, we discussed wanting kids or not. His initial response was "I'm not sure I'd say I want them, but always figured I'd have them because my wife would want them". Not a great answer, but keep in mind, just like women some men see kids as inevitable because of society. I remember the eye opening moment of "I don't HAVE to have kids??". However if you want someone to be as sure as you are sure, then they aren't for you!
Oh yeah, they go LEFT to the gas chamber. Although, in my age group, which is over 40, those profiles are fewer and fewer. Now it's the ones with older kids, which is SORT of okay as long as they live far, far away.
Those may be old and they probably say they dont want them now. Or to widen the dating pool
I can live with "open to the idea" which is a pretty non committal maybe. If we were to meet up and hit it off, they can get a taste of just how hard CF I am. If that's a dealbreaker for them, welp, I warned ya. I'm also a bit out of the ordinary in the sense that I value whatever time I have with this person (and life on earth in general) so I'm not going to be disappointed if we don't ride off into the sunset together.
I pass on guys that say they don’t have kids but want them someday. It’s a hard pass for me.
No, because I've found that most of those people are just ok with being step parents, but there isn't a button for that. I'm 42 and have yet to find someone without kids who "might want them" who minds that I don't want them. I have a problem with the "has kids doesn't want more" group, who don't respect that I'm not a rearing partner.
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I wouldn’t even entertain the thought for anyone who has or wants kids.
IMO that is weird they bring it up at all in profile. I don’t want kids but was on fence in mid 30s. I went on date with guy and at his place after great date, he said he had vasectomy n idk why but it was such a turn off for me. Even though at that point I was pretty sure I could not have kids from surgery. Idk why it repelled me. But it did.
O_0
Pass. That being said, I missed the whole dating on apps thing. I married a fence sitter. We’ve been together for 10 years now. Ideally, he would’ve been staunchly childfree before I even considered him, but I hadn’t really ratified my childfree philosophies at that point in my life. I knew I definitely didn’t want kids, but I hadn’t developed any dating policies. I’ll always keep my mind the fact that he could change his mind. We communicate well and often about everything, and he is adamant that he does not want kids. His decision is driven by the fact that they just don’t fit in with our profession/lifestyle. We both love our profession and lifestyle. He admits that he doesn’t think the would be completely miserable living a life with kids whereas I know I would be. With my current constitution, I would’ve never even taken a chance on him, but we got together before I even knew there was a term for what I was. I told him right up front. Our relationship developed organically. As a condition of our relationship, there’ll always be a 5% (don’t check my math) chance that he’ll change his mind which will end our relationship. I don’t live in fear of that. I’m pretty confident he won’t, but I know the chance is there. We’ll see. I’m not advocating for dating fence sitters. Just sharing a case in which, for at least 10 years, it has worked out.
Even someone who says they're "okay with not having kids" is a pass for me. It's gotta be someone who **knows** they don't want kids.